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Templars PvP - Detailed Guide, Suggestions, Advice, etc. - Elsweyr
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miteba✭✭✭✭
I'm a Breton so i already have the sustain bonus (except stamina) so i prefer a SD one, the same way you got SD from Dark Elf and need some sustain.Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »(...)I run Amberplasm and Buffer of the Swift
I have it crafted in light and heavy, probably legendary too, so i'll test it since its wasted on an Alt Char. Good tip 😉Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »In terms of spelldamage sets, I would put Julianos (...)
Dotzz uses BTB & Pariah, which i have too, in weaponry/jewelry but not tested that one yet (Work and 2 kids dont let me test everything i desire 😅)
@No_Division u talked earlier about it too! Have you been using it? Your semi-secret buildEdited by miteba on August 20, 2019 4:54PM0 -
Nirnroot420✭✭✭
I'm a Breton so i already have the sustain bonus (except stamina) so i prefer a SD one, the same way you got SD from Dark Elf and need some sustain.Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »(...)I run Amberplasm and Buffer of the Swift
I have it crafted in light and heavy, probably legendary too, so i'll test it since its wasted on an Alt Char. Good tip 😉Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »In terms of spelldamage sets, I would put Julianos (...)
Dotzz uses BTB & Pariah, which i have too, in weaponry/jewelry but not tested that one yet (Work and 2 kids dont let me test everything i desire 😅)
@No_Division u talked earlier about it too! Have you been using it? Your semi-secret build
Axiom's golden age was between Summerset and Elsweyr, 400 spell damage on class abilities is amazing, but now that generic skills have more utility to templars, it's being eclipsed by a new meta. And I think you have to ask yourself: why get your damage from a set at all?
Three infused spell damage runes on gold jewelry is more than 750 spell damage iirc. No set offers that sort of offensive capability. This frees up your sets for defensive, sustain and utility.2 -
No_Division✭✭✭
I'm a Breton so i already have the sustain bonus (except stamina) so i prefer a SD one, the same way you got SD from Dark Elf and need some sustain.Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »(...)I run Amberplasm and Buffer of the Swift
I have it crafted in light and heavy, probably legendary too, so i'll test it since its wasted on an Alt Char. Good tip 😉Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »In terms of spelldamage sets, I would put Julianos (...)
Dotzz uses BTB & Pariah, which i have too, in weaponry/jewelry but not tested that one yet (Work and 2 kids dont let me test everything i desire 😅)
@No_Division u talked earlier about it too! Have you been using it? Your semi-secret build
pariah is decent if you keep block casting BOL. Problem is still that dmg outperforms defense sets by a HUGE margin.
The last good defenses are block/dodge/minor maim/major protection/minor protection. Otherwise just stat buff and get kills before each death.2 -
Jimmy_The_Fixer✭✭✭✭✭@No_Division
I’m trying to understand what you’re saying, you can’t mean that offensive sets outperform defensive sets. Are you just pointing out that we’re in a meta with a lower TTK right now?0 -
No_Division✭✭✭Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »@No_Division
I’m trying to understand what you’re saying, you can’t mean that offensive sets outperform defensive sets. Are you just pointing out that we’re in a meta with a lower TTK right now?
15k attack hits you. You decide to slot swift in light armor.
15k becomes 7500 after battlespirit. The attack doesnt crit, so it stays 7500.
You have 20% ironclad 10% hardy, and enough armor after penetration to hit 10% mitigation. 7500 becomes 4860 after all that.
Now you apply 10% swift. 4374.
If you didnt have swift, you might only have 6% mitigation from armor pen now, so the dmg after CP and armor is 5076 instead of 4860.
You will have saved 702 damage by wasting a 5pc set on pure defense lol.
BUT if you decided to go offense stats, you might be anble to turn your burst heal from 13k to 15k and your HOT from 3k to 4k, so you gain more ability to return health lost while being able to turn your 15k tooltip into 20k.5 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭@EtTuBrutus : what builds are you using these days? I'm asking cause the most success Ive ever had on Magplar was with the build you suggested (Bright/Craft Alfiq)
I plan on using crafty/ alfiq with triune in small group. Solo im going to be trying pariah/ desert rose/ skoria. Resto / ice staff. Apprentice, infused spell dmg jewelry, high elf. Should be around 8.5k eSpdmg.
Not sure yet though as im on ps4.1 -
Jimmy_The_Fixer✭✭✭✭✭Riddle me this, what 5piece are you using that’s turning a 15k tooltip into a 20k tooltip? I’ll drop Swift the instant you show me the set that gives a 33% across-the-board damage increase.
Yea, it’s not a huge amount off of a single attack but I’ll happily spend a 5piece to save me from 700 damage every second for the whole fight while my opponent is pumping me with attacks. Lingering pots are OP AF and don’t nearly do that much after battle spirit.1 -
No_Division✭✭✭Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »Riddle me this, what 5piece are you using that’s turning a 15k tooltip into a 20k tooltip? I’ll drop Swift the instant you show me the set that gives a 33% across-the-board damage increase.
Yea, it’s not a huge amount off of a single attack but I’ll happily spend a 5piece to save me from 700 damage every second for the whole fight while my opponent is pumping me with attacks. Lingering pots are OP AF and don’t nearly do that much after battle spirit.
you are right, I just gave that dmg bump off the top of my head lol. I went from 17k onslaught to 18.5k with a 5pc set change, which is more on the tooltip than the 5pc defense saved me from.
Also, FYI, jabs/sweeps no longer being reduced by ironclad or buffed by master of arms. Thaum/thick skin now.
YAY! No more CP bug!1 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭No_Division wrote: »Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »Riddle me this, what 5piece are you using that’s turning a 15k tooltip into a 20k tooltip? I’ll drop Swift the instant you show me the set that gives a 33% across-the-board damage increase.
Yea, it’s not a huge amount off of a single attack but I’ll happily spend a 5piece to save me from 700 damage every second for the whole fight while my opponent is pumping me with attacks. Lingering pots are OP AF and don’t nearly do that much after battle spirit.
you are right, I just gave that dmg bump off the top of my head lol. I went from 17k onslaught to 18.5k with a 5pc set change, which is more on the tooltip than the 5pc defense saved me from.
Also, FYI, jabs/sweeps no longer being reduced by ironclad or buffed by master of arms. Thaum/thick skin now.
YAY! No more CP bug!
What your missing is that a defensive set gives you reduced dmg against potentially multiple ppl attacking you at once there by reducing incoming damage by alot, and more than a damage set will add to your tool tipsEdited by Syiccal on August 20, 2019 8:36PM4 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=172256
Thats my first iteration of my dot build- untested. Resistances are based on being at 50% hp, so it gets slightly higher. I like the idea of pariah, bc im sure a lot of morons are going to full health onslaught me, and ill gain slight resistances as they attack me since their penetration will be a set amount, based on a lower value since I was at full health when they used it. Thats the idea anyway.
Still unsure on the skills. Just kinda threw them up there. SPell power pots are still very much on the table for me, so i might switch out entropy and bane for radiating regen / living dark and sweeps.
I just Fing changed my build back to melee, was loving it, now this patch. Half my skills I was using were JUST buffed, then nerfed immediately in this patch bc of some stupid "STANDARD" where they over simplify combat, put everything in a vacuum and dont apply OPPORTUNITY COST to anything.2 -
Jimmy_The_Fixer✭✭✭✭✭I guess the point I’m trying to make is that ZoS always overstats defensive sets compared to offensive ones. Fortbrass gets 5200 resists on the 5piece while Spinner/Spriggan only get 3200 pen.
As for Swift, any set that increased damage to players by 10% would be an auto-include for every setup because that’d be insane, nearly double the effective damage increase of Spinners, which is already a premium offensive set.
Yes, raw stats are very nice because they have a defensive and offensive benefit from increasing heal tooltips, but there’s definitely a place for defensive sets in this meta.Edited by Jimmy_The_Fixer on August 20, 2019 9:03PM1 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »I guess the point I’m trying to make is that ZoS always overstats defensive sets compared to offensive ones. Fortbrass gets 5200 resists on the 5piece while Spinner/Spriggan only get 3200 pen.
As for Swift, any set that increased damage to players by 10% would be an auto-include for every setup because that’d be insane, nearly double the effective damage increase of Spinners, which is already a premium offensive set.
Yes, raw stats are very nice because they have a defensive and offensive benefit from increasing heal tooltips, but there’s definitely a place for defensive sets in this meta.
More so imo0 -
No_Division✭✭✭No_Division wrote: »Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »Riddle me this, what 5piece are you using that’s turning a 15k tooltip into a 20k tooltip? I’ll drop Swift the instant you show me the set that gives a 33% across-the-board damage increase.
Yea, it’s not a huge amount off of a single attack but I’ll happily spend a 5piece to save me from 700 damage every second for the whole fight while my opponent is pumping me with attacks. Lingering pots are OP AF and don’t nearly do that much after battle spirit.
you are right, I just gave that dmg bump off the top of my head lol. I went from 17k onslaught to 18.5k with a 5pc set change, which is more on the tooltip than the 5pc defense saved me from.
Also, FYI, jabs/sweeps no longer being reduced by ironclad or buffed by master of arms. Thaum/thick skin now.
YAY! No more CP bug!
What your missing is that a defensive set gives you reduced dmg against potentially multiple ppl attacking you at once there by reducing incoming damage by alot, and more than a damage set will add to your tool tips
true. and then missing the part where four 15k attacks means youll take 4x4000 = 16000 in the span of a second. The more I dive under the hood of this game, the more I realized it was built from the ground up to benefit outnumbered fights.1 -
Nirnroot420✭✭✭Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »I guess the point I’m trying to make is that ZoS always overstats defensive sets compared to offensive ones. Fortbrass gets 5200 resists on the 5piece while Spinner/Spriggan only get 3200 pen.
As for Swift, any set that increased damage to players by 10% would be an auto-include for every setup because that’d be insane, nearly double the effective damage increase of Spinners, which is already a premium offensive set.
Yes, raw stats are very nice because they have a defensive and offensive benefit from increasing heal tooltips, but there’s definitely a place for defensive sets in this meta.No_Division wrote: »No_Division wrote: »Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »Riddle me this, what 5piece are you using that’s turning a 15k tooltip into a 20k tooltip? I’ll drop Swift the instant you show me the set that gives a 33% across-the-board damage increase.
Yea, it’s not a huge amount off of a single attack but I’ll happily spend a 5piece to save me from 700 damage every second for the whole fight while my opponent is pumping me with attacks. Lingering pots are OP AF and don’t nearly do that much after battle spirit.
you are right, I just gave that dmg bump off the top of my head lol. I went from 17k onslaught to 18.5k with a 5pc set change, which is more on the tooltip than the 5pc defense saved me from.
Also, FYI, jabs/sweeps no longer being reduced by ironclad or buffed by master of arms. Thaum/thick skin now.
YAY! No more CP bug!
What your missing is that a defensive set gives you reduced dmg against potentially multiple ppl attacking you at once there by reducing incoming damage by alot, and more than a damage set will add to your tool tips
true. and then missing the part where four 15k attacks means youll take 4x4000 = 16000 in the span of a second. The more I dive under the hood of this game, the more I realized it was built from the ground up to benefit outnumbered fights.
True all around boys. Defensive sets are paramount in this meta imo, and with the nerf to protective you have infused to build up where your lacking very, very easily. But on top of that, I feel that raw numbers, both defensive and offensive, far outperform proc sets in this climate from what I've seen, more so than they have in a while anyway.
And nice detective work on the CP thang, Not Minno. At least the game is becoming more consistent if not anything else.0 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've also started using dw again, partly because it buffs all those juicy dots we now have access to where as lighting staff ONLY buffs sweeps and also I find for some reason using dw sweeps doesnt bug out as much. When I try to weave light attacks with a staff it bugs out alot1 -
miteba✭✭✭✭I've also started using dw again, partly because it buffs all those juicy dots we now have access to where as lighting staff ONLY buffs sweeps and also I find for some reason using dw sweeps doesnt bug out as much. When I try to weave light attacks with a staff it bugs out alot
I used DW for a long time, 2 years ago. And i loved it … but then i used only a melee playstyle.
Nowdays, with Warden and Necro classes added, and the increase of mobility builds overall, i feel i need RANGE more than ever.
And DoTs meta allow even more diversity from ranged builds wherever it helps melee builds too, because of that dots pressure.
Dual Wield is great but Destro staff tri focus and ancient knowledge passives are pretty powerful too, and i dont trade that "sometimes cluncky/bugged light weaving" for the chance of applying damage from afar when needed, because:
- Lots of mobility, sometimes you can't move at the same speed as enemies, and you lose your melee light/heavy attack tempo with DW... with Destro staff you dont have that problem
- Destro staff offers status effects and lots of choices with Inferno (more damage vs single targets) vs Ice (block sustain and immobilizes) vs Lightning (AoE damage and undogeable), as DW only offer more "tooltips".
- Safety distance always was important obviously, but now is even more, with Necro ultimates; The ressurgence of Sorc Heavy overload attack; The ressurgence of destro staff Elemental Storm; etc etc
Edited by miteba on August 21, 2019 9:34AM3 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've also started using dw again, partly because it buffs all those juicy dots we now have access to where as lighting staff ONLY buffs sweeps and also I find for some reason using dw sweeps doesnt bug out as much. When I try to weave light attacks with a staff it bugs out alot
I used DW for a long time, 2 years ago. And i loved it … but then i used only a melee playstyle.
Nowdays, with Warden and Necro classes added, and the increase of mobility builds overall, i feel i need RANGE more than ever.
And DoTs meta allow even more diversity from ranged builds wherever it helps melee builds too, because of that dots pressure.
Dual Wield is great but Destro staff tri focus and ancient knowledge passives are pretty powerful too, and i dont trade that "sometimes cluncky/bugged light weaving" for the chance of applying damage from afar when needed, because:
- Lots of mobility, sometimes you can't move at the same speed as enemies, and you lose your melee light/heavy attack tempo with DW... with Destro staff you dont have that problem
- Destro staff offers status effects and lots of choices with Inferno (more damage vs single targets) vs Ice (block sustain and immobilizes) vs Lightning (AoE damage and undogeable), as DW only offer more "tooltips".
- Safety distance always was important obviously, but now is even more, with Necro ultimates; The ressurgence of Sorc Heavy overload attack; The ressurgence of destro staff Elemental Storm; etc etc
True very true0 -
Rhaegar75✭✭✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »@EtTuBrutus : what builds are you using these days? I'm asking cause the most success Ive ever had on Magplar was with the build you suggested (Bright/Craft Alfiq)
I plan on using crafty/ alfiq with triune in small group. Solo im going to be trying pariah/ desert rose/ skoria. Resto / ice staff. Apprentice, infused spell dmg jewelry, high elf. Should be around 8.5k eSpdmg.
Not sure yet though as im on ps4.
I should try the more defensive gear too
8k spell dmg??? how do you get that number?Edited by Rhaegar75 on August 21, 2019 11:17AM0 -
RebornRequiem✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »@EtTuBrutus : what builds are you using these days? I'm asking cause the most success Ive ever had on Magplar was with the build you suggested (Bright/Craft Alfiq)
I plan on using crafty/ alfiq with triune in small group. Solo im going to be trying pariah/ desert rose/ skoria. Resto / ice staff. Apprentice, infused spell dmg jewelry, high elf. Should be around 8.5k eSpdmg.
Not sure yet though as im on ps4.
I should try the more defensive gear too
8k spell dmg??? how do you get that number?
effective spelldamage is the total combination of max magicka, spell damage, crit chance, crit damage, penetration, some cp trees and bonus like slayer. It is not the spelldamage you mean.Edited by RebornRequiem on August 21, 2019 11:24AM0 -
UndeniablyAVG✭✭✭✭
I should try the more defensive gear too
8k spell dmg??? how?
I think he means effective spell damage, I'm not sure how its calculated but is listed on the ESO build editor.
I think it is a culmination of spell damage, penetration and CP placement.
PS4 EU - Daggerfall Covenant
PSN - N_O_B_L_E-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqUlYStV91gCyNgVjSjapbw0 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »@EtTuBrutus : what builds are you using these days? I'm asking cause the most success Ive ever had on Magplar was with the build you suggested (Bright/Craft Alfiq)
I plan on using crafty/ alfiq with triune in small group. Solo im going to be trying pariah/ desert rose/ skoria. Resto / ice staff. Apprentice, infused spell dmg jewelry, high elf. Should be around 8.5k eSpdmg.
Not sure yet though as im on ps4.
I should try the more defensive gear too
8k spell dmg??? how do you get that number?
As others said, it's effective spell dmg. Based on a target with 24k resistance, 2500 crit resist. The higher the number.0 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭@Rhaegar75 the alfiq/btb build has 10k espd. The desert rose has 8.7k.
Still plenty of killing power, more hp, uses skoria instead of blood spawn (ult gen op I'll miss it). I've never tried desert with pariah, but desert with spinners was great if i were getting attacked.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »@Rhaegar75 the alfiq/btb build has 10k espd. The desert rose has 8.7k.
Still plenty of killing power, more hp, uses skoria instead of blood spawn (ult gen op I'll miss it). I've never tried desert with pariah, but desert with spinners was great if i were getting attacked.
Hmm, I havent liked Skoria and still run blood spawn even when I am sitting at 32k resists pre-proc and kill people just fine with 8500 effective. I run 2 handed sword though, then rely on Bloodspawn and nord, and generous re-applying of reflective light to build utimate in that resists to have crescent sweep available to follow a heavy attack quite often. Skoria just seems to never fire exactly where or when I want it to.
I do want to try a 10k damage build as well though. I might try that more for solo if I can stay near LOS as I find alone, I need to be able to blow someone up, and get back to running ASAPEdited by technohic on August 21, 2019 12:31PM0 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭I've also started using dw again, partly because it buffs all those juicy dots we now have access to where as lighting staff ONLY buffs sweeps and also I find for some reason using dw sweeps doesnt bug out as much. When I try to weave light attacks with a staff it bugs out alot
What do you mean bug out? I don't get that problem unless I try to block too quickly after trying to la, normal weaving is no issue and is so much added damage.
When the patch drops and depending on what you plan on running, why not fire staff instead?
Actually, is a flame staff working out to more damage now?
On another note, I haven't done any builds on the editor yet but I see people are talking about infused SD jewellery, surely that's not outperforming SD/Max Magicka jewellery in terms of raw stats? Why's that being thrown around?Edited by BNOC on August 21, 2019 1:06PMvMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)0 -
RebornRequiem✭✭✭I've also started using dw again, partly because it buffs all those juicy dots we now have access to where as lighting staff ONLY buffs sweeps and also I find for some reason using dw sweeps doesnt bug out as much. When I try to weave light attacks with a staff it bugs out alot
What do you mean bug out? I don't get that problem unless I try to block too quickly after trying to la, normal weaving is no issue and is so much added damage.
When the patch drops and depending on what you plan on running, why not fire staff instead?
Actually, is a flame staff working out to more damage now?
On another note, I haven't done any builds on the editor yet but I see people are talking about infused SD jewellery, surely that's not outperforming SD/Max Magicka jewellery in terms of raw stats? Why's that being thrown around?
Infused spelldamage enchants grant slightly more effective spell power than an arcane jewelry piece with a spelldamage enchant.
A legendary arcane jewelry provides 174 seplldamage and 870 magicka, meanwhile an infused one does not provide magicka but 278 spelldamage, a difference of 104 spelldamage and 870 magicka.
1 spelldamage is kind of equal to 10.5 magicka in total power. Therefore the 104 additional spelldamage is worth around 1092 magicka, which is 222 more than the arcane trait. In general you almost can compare magicka and spelldamage of one jewelry in power, since most classes get a 20% modifier on spelldamage by acquiring major sorcery, meanwhile magicka gets a 20% modifier by having 300 cps. If there are additional modifiers like minor sorcery or percentage amps of max magicka like mage guilds passives or inner light, then those must be considered too. But in the case of magplars, which have a source of minor sorcery, the already better spelldamage from infused jewelry gets amped up even more.3 -
Jimmy_The_Fixer✭✭✭✭✭In regards to Infused spelldam VS Arcane, keep in mind that no-CP doesn’t even get the 20% max pool bonus. So if you do mostly BGs and no-cp pvp, then infused completely blows arcane out of the water.4
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UndeniablyAVG✭✭✭✭Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »In regards to Infused spelldam VS Arcane, keep in mind that no-CP doesn’t even get the 20% max pool bonus. So if you do mostly BGs and no-cp pvp, then infused completely blows arcane out of the water.
Max mag does also have a sustain aspect that doesn't come with spell damage. More mag = more spells castable before you run out. For pure damage though infused definitely wins out.PS4 EU - Daggerfall Covenant
PSN - N_O_B_L_E-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqUlYStV91gCyNgVjSjapbw1 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭I've also started using dw again, partly because it buffs all those juicy dots we now have access to where as lighting staff ONLY buffs sweeps and also I find for some reason using dw sweeps doesnt bug out as much. When I try to weave light attacks with a staff it bugs out alot
I have been noticing this a lot on both Mag and Stam Templar...What I am noticing happens often, is when attempting to LA weave into sweeps with a Staff the LA will instead charge into a full heavy attack that you cannot cancel.
With 2H on my stam, I will LA weave and the LA will delay as if Heavy Attacking, but only damage for LA then I have to wait a full GCD to activate Jabs.
Has anyone tested this? I am on console live btw - this has been happening since Elsweyr with the Channel time reduction to sweeps/jabs.1 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »@Rhaegar75 the alfiq/btb build has 10k espd. The desert rose has 8.7k.
Still plenty of killing power, more hp, uses skoria instead of blood spawn (ult gen op I'll miss it). I've never tried desert with pariah, but desert with spinners was great if i were getting attacked.
Hmm, I havent liked Skoria and still run blood spawn even when I am sitting at 32k resists pre-proc and kill people just fine with 8500 effective. I run 2 handed sword though, then rely on Bloodspawn and nord, and generous re-applying of reflective light to build utimate in that resists to have crescent sweep available to follow a heavy attack quite often. Skoria just seems to never fire exactly where or when I want it to.
I do want to try a 10k damage build as well though. I might try that more for solo if I can stay near LOS as I find alone, I need to be able to blow someone up, and get back to running ASAP
I looked at your build, it was based on 18200 resistance and no crit resist if i remeber correctly. Either way, if you kill with it, gg.Edited by EtTuBrutus on August 21, 2019 2:03PM0