Templars PvP - Detailed Guide, Suggestions, Advice, etc. - Elsweyr

therift

BNOC wrote: »

therift wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

therift wrote: »

No_Division wrote: »

therift wrote: »

No_Division wrote: »

therift wrote: »

There are some interesting builds in this discussion.

I'll be swapping out one set and ulti on my Stamplar (more than a year with no changes) and swapping out one skill and one morph on my Magplar. I was worried about the skill restructuring in Updates 22 and 23, but for the keep-buster and large scale fights I enjoy, I think I still have solid builds

I think we will need to redo this thread come next patch lol.

I found myself reluctant to give up secrets. Swapping Ravager for Fury on Stamplar seems obvious. Nobody runs my Magplar build... one of the sets has a unique indicator that I haven't seen on opponents... but there are several ingenious builds posted recently that share the same idea.

Really excited about Eclipse change. It's like ZoS read my mind

in general the pvp section is kinda free from dev review lol.

PvErs think the Devs get all their insight here

On Ravager, I'm thinking it may be such a struggle to force the proc that Fury, despite the slightly lower max stack damage bonus, will perform better. Granted, the actual damage bonus will rarely hit the maximum, but my untested hypothesis is that variable damage bonus that procs passively will grant more damage over the course of a large scale fight than Ravager's occasional bonus.

That may be true only in the types of fights I prefer. It wouldn't be true in small scale or 1v1. I'll have to try both when console gets the Update to know.

Fury/Coward's/Bloodspawn. Major Expedition and Major Protection in a stam recovery set is too good to pass up

Fury, only if you're bathing or front line I'd imagine.
If you're part of a group that's just running through zergs or packing people up before they do anything then Ravager seems better, but then again, doesn't there come a point where something as basic as Hundings jumps the two as well?

I'd rather have the max Health bonus from Ravager or Fury over the small extra Crit from Hundings. You're correct, I'm usually at the tip of the spear and getting pounded, so I think I can rely on a fair number of Fury stacks... especially since my group typically fights opponent groups whom we know well. I'm one of the ones who gets targeted for extra love, just as I know the opponent names who should be prioritized. Besides, my Outfit is fairly easy to identify... and remember.

Fair fair, I know a thing or two about being targeted haha! When it comes to BG's and duelling I'd be interested to see how Ravager v Hundings fared. TTK can be so low on a heavy hitter so I wonder if you'd benefit more from the flat stats than the 8% proc.

Either way for all of this stuff, it's not one rule for all opponents so it's neither here nor there really - Where you gain in X, you'll lose in Y and vice versa.

I suspect Hunding's would outperform Ravager and Fury in BGs and Duels. The conditions generate either proc seem problematic at the speed of 4v4v4 or 1v1 content. I can picture myself trying to kite long enough to get a proc only to get rekt by DoTs, snares, roots, etc., lol

Kartalin

Ravager will definitely be more useful for medium to large scale to proc it reliably in U23. Maybe in BGs where teams stack you could do it, but less reliable and definitely not in duels.

SneaK

Kartalin wrote: »

Re our earlier discussion of Ravager, I was reminded that Razor Caltrops is updated to give major fracture. So 4 seconds in caltrops gives full Ravager proc.

Edit fixed the debuff I originally listed

So the dot of Caltrops would imply Major Fracture each tick?

Kartalin

SneaK wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Re our earlier discussion of Ravager, I was reminded that Razor Caltrops is updated to give major fracture. So 4 seconds in caltrops gives full Ravager proc.

Edit fixed the debuff I originally listed

So the dot of Caltrops would imply Major Fracture each tick?

PTS 5.1.0 wrote:

Razor Caltrops (morph): This ability no longer deals initial hit damage, but instead applies Major Fracture to enemies hit by the DoT, up to 4 seconds at Rank IV.

I believe so, yes.

technohic

I tested for myself lightning staff vs 2h on an aoe bar and my light attacks non-crit do over 1k more damage per hit, and they crit more often. And Crescent sweep hits really close to how it did after a heavy attack into it, maybe 2k less. Only thing I could see 2h for is if I had DOTs backbar that I switch front bar and they are not benefiting off of lightning staff, and I will have to watch my stam management to see if it suffers.

No_Division

Syiccal wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

So I am sitting here looking at a AO focused frontbar and comparing the lightning staff and 2her in build editor and I notice, sweeps goes down from 3443 to 3318 which is nominal, but effective spell power drops from over 9k to mid 7k. I suppose it makes sense from a raw stat perspective.

What I am wondering though; is it better to have the better light attack damage or the better raw stats as I still have entropy that will be ticking from the backbar, and you can do that heavy attack into crescent.

Been there and done the testing, it's much better to have the light att weave than an extra bit of tool tip dmg

We did the tests and it was determined lighting light attacks weren't that far off from 2h. This is because lighting heavy is more DmG while being undodgeable and to compensate they reduced the light attack.

There's also little issues like reflective light dot is buffed by fire staff according to the editor.

technohic wrote: »

I tested for myself lightning staff vs 2h on an aoe bar and my light attacks non-crit do over 1k more damage per hit, and they crit more often. And Crescent sweep hits really close to how it did after a heavy attack into it, maybe 2k less. Only thing I could see 2h for is if I had DOTs backbar that I switch front bar and they are not benefiting off of lightning staff, and I will have to watch my stam management to see if it suffers.

fire staff is better for light attack weave. its almost 7k on certain setups lol. I am glad to give up on jabs for magplar; its basically just a tank ability.

EtTuBrutus

No_Division wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

So I am sitting here looking at a AO focused frontbar and comparing the lightning staff and 2her in build editor and I notice, sweeps goes down from 3443 to 3318 which is nominal, but effective spell power drops from over 9k to mid 7k. I suppose it makes sense from a raw stat perspective.

What I am wondering though; is it better to have the better light attack damage or the better raw stats as I still have entropy that will be ticking from the backbar, and you can do that heavy attack into crescent.

Been there and done the testing, it's much better to have the light att weave than an extra bit of tool tip dmg

We did the tests and it was determined lighting light attacks weren't that far off from 2h. This is because lighting heavy is more DmG while being undodgeable and to compensate they reduced the light attack.

There's also little issues like reflective light dot is buffed by fire staff according to the editor.

technohic wrote: »

I tested for myself lightning staff vs 2h on an aoe bar and my light attacks non-crit do over 1k more damage per hit, and they crit more often. And Crescent sweep hits really close to how it did after a heavy attack into it, maybe 2k less. Only thing I could see 2h for is if I had DOTs backbar that I switch front bar and they are not benefiting off of lightning staff, and I will have to watch my stam management to see if it suffers.

fire staff is better for light attack weave. its almost 7k on certain setups lol. I am glad to give up on jabs for magplar; its basically just a tank ability.

I had an opponent sends me a screenshot of my jabs. I wonder what i could do with a different spammable, but i doubt it's 12k plus burning light.

EtTuBrutus

Well, maybe against that squishball

EtTuBrutus

You guys might think im crazy, but the 6% from shield breaker has increased my stampys tooltips more than my other sets. And it's even better vs shields

No_Division

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Well, maybe against that squishball

Yea my highest was 1400 per hit and that was against anyone in a decent, slapped together build. Once you started seeing evasion, that number DROPPED hard. all in, I was getting 7620 with burning light .

Right now, reflective light is 7k initial hit for me, fire staff light is 5-6.5k, and fire heavy is 12k. That means all in with mitigation im at 2200 RL, 1620 fLA, 3888 fHA. Total of 7708, but I can dodge roll, engage from range and 2/3 attacks are free cost lol. And that is not counting the burning status effect nor the 2s of RL dmg ticking from start of combo to end of heavy attack.

EtTuBrutus

No_Division wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Well, maybe against that squishball

Yea my highest was 1400 per hit and that was against anyone in a decent, slapped together build. Once you started seeing evasion, that number DROPPED hard. all in, I was getting 7620 with burning light .

Right now, reflective light is 7k initial hit for me, fire staff light is 5-6.5k, and fire heavy is 12k. That means all in with mitigation im at 2200 RL, 1620 fLA, 3888 fHA. Total of 7708, but I can dodge roll, engage from range and 2/3 attacks are free cost lol. And that is not counting the burning status effect nor the 2s of RL dmg ticking from start of combo to end of heavy attack.

7k initial in pvp??

EtTuBrutus

Oh u mean before mitigation

No_Division

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Oh u mean before mitigation

yea before. but the all in reflects mitigation.

EtTuBrutus

Gotcha, i plan on doing a dot/hot rotation. I just wish they didn't kill defile on snb. That was going to be my ace.

VirtualElizabeth

Kartalin wrote: »

Ravager will definitely be more useful for medium to large scale to proc it reliably in U23. Maybe in BGs where teams stack you could do it, but less reliable and definitely not in duels.

I was starting to wonder what direction I was going to go so maybe Ravager isn't as bad a choice as I thought. I had a set of Fortified Brass sitting in my bank and am running it currently with Bone Pirate. I am very survivable but I feel like my weapon damage has suffered.

I do have set of Fury though (I tend to hoard sets)...hmmm....maybe I will give that a whirl.

technohic

I don't know how you play stamplar without spriggans. 0 source of major fracture. Maybe even spriggan and a mace.

Kartalin

technohic wrote: »

I don't know how you play stamplar without spriggans. 0 source of major fracture.

Razor caltrops in U23

BaiterOfZergs

technohic wrote: »

I don't know how you play stamplar without spriggans. 0 source of major fracture. Maybe even spriggan and a mace.

To be fair I don’t see how anyone plays in this meta without any source of pen.

Syiccal

Does any one use force pulse over jabs as a spammable?

No_Division

Syiccal wrote: »

Does any one use force pulse over jabs as a spammable?

An oldie but a good example:
https://youtu.be/_ImtDvp6GNU

And more recent example:
https://youtu.be/VoSuGKRAfN0

BNOC

Syiccal wrote: »

Does any one use force pulse over jabs as a spammable?

Shock clench with a Masters staff, RL or Elemental weapon at the minute.

Not sure if the change to clench next patch has opened this up but I imagine any Templars using force pulse are doing wet damage in comparison.

Syiccal

No_Division wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Does any one use force pulse over jabs as a spammable?

An oldie but a good example:
https://youtu.be/_ImtDvp6GNU

And more recent example:
https://youtu.be/VoSuGKRAfN0

Yea I can see it works in duels but I'm more I treated in open world and bgs

miteba

Next patch i will try, beetween other things, a "pressure build" via Dots.
I'll drop "Jabs" in this build, in exchange for "Elemental Weapon", with focus in "Dark Flare" and its empower.

My aim is to apply Dots asap, and "turtle" with Living Dark, to have an window to use Dark Flare -> Elemental Weap -> empowered Light attack

If Living Dark doesnt provide the window to Dark Flare, i'll probably change to Ice staff to immobilize before DF.

The Sets will depend if in group/solo but there are so many solutions outhere... we can mix them in so many ways that it's not that important for me.
Defensive/sustain are Bright-Throats, Curse-Eater, Steadfast Hero, Pariah, Kragenac (ressu support) etc etc
Offensive will be Spinner, Spell strategist, Axiom (for class skills build) blah blah

I didnt play in PTS but i'll try to keep the 5x Light Armor build, but if that fails, i will only miss the penetration because Heavy armor has its trump cards too!

1bar: Destro Inferno
HoD - Living Dark(solo) or Radiant Magelight (group) - Ele Drain - Dark Flare - Elemental Weapon [Ultimate?]

2bar: Resto Staff
Channeled Focus - Extended Ritual* - Rapid Regen - Entropy - Reflect Light [Ultimate?]

*In case of using Curse-Eater Set i'll change Extended Ritual for another dot, most likely Soul Trap or Resto shield

Kartalin

Syiccal wrote: »

Does any one use force pulse over jabs as a spammable?

I have a ranged build for no cp that uses it as a spammable. The point of the build (spinners/torug's/pirate skeleton/willpower resto) is that I can weave LA and Crushing Shock to get consistent enchant procs on opponent because of the boost that infused fire staff and Torug's Pact gives it (and also 12k pen).

It works alright, but mainly a single target damage build. That's why it works better as part of a small group than solo because more than 2 opponents = toast (or massive kiting).

Edit: 1v2 video from awhile back. The build has changed some since then, no longer a vampire, pirate skelly over skoria.

No_Division

Kartalin wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Does any one use force pulse over jabs as a spammable?

I have a ranged build for no cp that uses it as a spammable. The point of the build (spinners/torug's/pirate skeleton/willpower resto) is that I can weave LA and Crushing Shock to get consistent enchant procs on opponent because of the boost that infused fire staff and Torug's Pact gives it (and also 12k pen).

It works alright, but mainly a single target damage build. That's why it works better as part of a small group than solo because more than 2 opponents = toast (or massive kiting).

Edit: 1v2 video from awhile back. The build has changed some since then, no longer a vampire, pirate skelly over skoria.

1vx is a lesson on forcing 1v1 fights .

Rangeplar has the AOE 1vX potential, but requires a bit of fine tuning and repositioning practice a jabs build takes for granted.
Like, wouldnt use force pulse in open world; sure I won't have intense single target pressure, but that is what dark flare is for. Outnumbered cresent/meteor/reflective are better and next patch blazing shield will be decent now that healing ward/ward ally are going to be used.

This is what I will be using and so far working decent. Only issue is being smacked by intense zergs, but even 2x defense/jabs wasnt doing much against those for me. And purfying is the flex slot; if I need more AOE ill go WoE/Prox Det/Blazing Spear. Backbar enchant is actually mag cost poisons; 6s of 250 mag every second and 10% cost increase on my target of choice so its a mixed 1vX/1v1 poison.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=166771

No_Division

BNOC wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Does any one use force pulse over jabs as a spammable?

Shock clench with a Masters staff, RL or Elemental weapon at the minute.

Not sure if the change to clench next patch has opened this up but I imagine any Templars using force pulse are doing wet damage in comparison.

masters shock will make it an 8k tooltip. But it will be an AOE projectile so be careful against DKs with evasion lol (50% bs, 50% wings, 25% evasion = 1500 hits lol)
At least force pulse is 2500x3 plus another 10k for the status effect. Add charged and then add disease and you have a spamable that replaces class spamables lol.

SneaK

No_Division wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Does any one use force pulse over jabs as a spammable?

I have a ranged build for no cp that uses it as a spammable. The point of the build (spinners/torug's/pirate skeleton/willpower resto) is that I can weave LA and Crushing Shock to get consistent enchant procs on opponent because of the boost that infused fire staff and Torug's Pact gives it (and also 12k pen).

It works alright, but mainly a single target damage build. That's why it works better as part of a small group than solo because more than 2 opponents = toast (or massive kiting).

Edit: 1v2 video from awhile back. The build has changed some since then, no longer a vampire, pirate skelly over skoria.

1vx is a lesson on forcing 1v1 fights .

Rangeplar has the AOE 1vX potential, but requires a bit of fine tuning and repositioning practice a jabs build takes for granted.
Like, wouldnt use force pulse in open world; sure I won't have intense single target pressure, but that is what dark flare is for. Outnumbered cresent/meteor/reflective are better and next patch blazing shield will be decent now that healing ward/ward ally are going to be used.

This is what I will be using and so far working decent. Only issue is being smacked by intense zergs, but even 2x defense/jabs wasnt doing much against those for me. And purfying is the flex slot; if I need more AOE ill go WoE/Prox Det/Blazing Spear. Backbar enchant is actually mag cost poisons; 6s of 250 mag every second and 10% cost increase on my target of choice so its a mixed 1vX/1v1 poison.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=166771

I’ll admit I don’t have much of an imagination but how would you get any kills with those skill bars? Especially in an outnumbered scenario like described.

No_Division

SneaK wrote: »

No_Division wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Does any one use force pulse over jabs as a spammable?

I have a ranged build for no cp that uses it as a spammable. The point of the build (spinners/torug's/pirate skeleton/willpower resto) is that I can weave LA and Crushing Shock to get consistent enchant procs on opponent because of the boost that infused fire staff and Torug's Pact gives it (and also 12k pen).

It works alright, but mainly a single target damage build. That's why it works better as part of a small group than solo because more than 2 opponents = toast (or massive kiting).

Edit: 1v2 video from awhile back. The build has changed some since then, no longer a vampire, pirate skelly over skoria.

1vx is a lesson on forcing 1v1 fights .

Rangeplar has the AOE 1vX potential, but requires a bit of fine tuning and repositioning practice a jabs build takes for granted.
Like, wouldnt use force pulse in open world; sure I won't have intense single target pressure, but that is what dark flare is for. Outnumbered cresent/meteor/reflective are better and next patch blazing shield will be decent now that healing ward/ward ally are going to be used.

This is what I will be using and so far working decent. Only issue is being smacked by intense zergs, but even 2x defense/jabs wasnt doing much against those for me. And purfying is the flex slot; if I need more AOE ill go WoE/Prox Det/Blazing Spear. Backbar enchant is actually mag cost poisons; 6s of 250 mag every second and 10% cost increase on my target of choice so its a mixed 1vX/1v1 poison.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=166771

I’ll admit I don’t have much of an imagination but how would you get any kills with those skill bars? Especially in an outnumbered scenario like described.

you don't. even in jabs youll be dead before you get one person down to 50%.
What you do is stretch out targets and engage from range. once you get 1-3 targets, youll be able to single target one, let RL tick on the others and upkeep blazing shield for additional "thorn" damage. cresent is there for more AOE/single target damage and toppling ensures you keep up from going range into melee. it's not a perfect build either, and if you need more AOE grothdarr is there to help or valkyn. Can also go soul trap AOE in place of degeneration but that needs you to go spell power pots.

I will have to get some videos; I was able to 1vX panda force with this lol.

SneaK

No_Division wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

No_Division wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Does any one use force pulse over jabs as a spammable?

I have a ranged build for no cp that uses it as a spammable. The point of the build (spinners/torug's/pirate skeleton/willpower resto) is that I can weave LA and Crushing Shock to get consistent enchant procs on opponent because of the boost that infused fire staff and Torug's Pact gives it (and also 12k pen).

It works alright, but mainly a single target damage build. That's why it works better as part of a small group than solo because more than 2 opponents = toast (or massive kiting).

Edit: 1v2 video from awhile back. The build has changed some since then, no longer a vampire, pirate skelly over skoria.

1vx is a lesson on forcing 1v1 fights .

Rangeplar has the AOE 1vX potential, but requires a bit of fine tuning and repositioning practice a jabs build takes for granted.
Like, wouldnt use force pulse in open world; sure I won't have intense single target pressure, but that is what dark flare is for. Outnumbered cresent/meteor/reflective are better and next patch blazing shield will be decent now that healing ward/ward ally are going to be used.

This is what I will be using and so far working decent. Only issue is being smacked by intense zergs, but even 2x defense/jabs wasnt doing much against those for me. And purfying is the flex slot; if I need more AOE ill go WoE/Prox Det/Blazing Spear. Backbar enchant is actually mag cost poisons; 6s of 250 mag every second and 10% cost increase on my target of choice so its a mixed 1vX/1v1 poison.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=166771

I’ll admit I don’t have much of an imagination but how would you get any kills with those skill bars? Especially in an outnumbered scenario like described.

you don't. even in jabs youll be dead before you get one person down to 50%.
What you do is stretch out targets and engage from range. once you get 1-3 targets, youll be able to single target one, let RL tick on the others and upkeep blazing shield for additional "thorn" damage. cresent is there for more AOE/single target damage and toppling ensures you keep up from going range into melee. it's not a perfect build either, and if you need more AOE grothdarr is there to help or valkyn. Can also go soul trap AOE in place of degeneration but that needs you to go spell power pots.

I will have to get some videos; I was able to 1vX panda force with this lol.

Not trying to fact check you or be rude or anything.

But you need some mobility to stretch people out and you’re not running Mist or RAT, I can see the build getting kills in BGs but thats entirely different than open world Cyro. Anyway I applaud you for trying something different, I’ve kept my Magplar a Jabplar since the beginning so the ranged stuff is hard for me to process.

Syiccal

No_Division wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Does any one use force pulse over jabs as a spammable?

Shock clench with a Masters staff, RL or Elemental weapon at the minute.

Not sure if the change to clench next patch has opened this up but I imagine any Templars using force pulse are doing wet damage in comparison.

masters shock will make it an 8k tooltip. But it will be an AOE projectile so be careful against DKs with evasion lol (50% bs, 50% wings, 25% evasion = 1500 hits lol)
At least force pulse is 2500x3 plus another 10k for the status effect. Add charged and then add disease and you have a spamable that replaces class spamables lol.

How does the status effect add 10k?