See ya later crown crates!

ozm8ey

As long as they're not pay 2 win i don't really care to be honest

jaws343

I'll keep posting this on everyone of these nonsense threads that pop-up.

Crown crates are not gambling. Nobody has spent a single dime of their own money to purchase a crown crate. Not once, not ever.

You spend money to buy Crowns. An in game currency. You get the exact amount of crowns that you spent money on, zero gambling in that transaction. Anything you do with those crowns at that point is irrelevant. You cannot gamble if you aren't spending real money on the crown crates.

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Casino: Convert your cash into "chips" to play games of chance; after which you can then convert your "chips" back into currency.

Carnival/Arcade: Convert your cash into "tickets" or "tokens" to be used for an assortment of things, including games of chance and games of skill. You cannot exchange your "tickets" or "tokens" for cash, but you can exchange them for "prizes" or other rewards that are not cash.

For me, the big difference is getting things (that aren't even tangible in our case) instead of getting winning/losing real currency. The respective legislatures will decide what happens. That may be nothing at all. Or it could be flimsy regulation the companies can stay one step ahead of, while the lawmakers can say they tried their "best".

I'm not expecting this issue to effect this game, and if it does, don't expect too much impact. If they do get regulated, they will look to make up that profit loss elsewhere - probably at our expense. Don't expect them to be contrite if they lose.

You land on the important distinction here, once you buy Crowns, you can never convert them back to real money. You have bought a worthless currency. And anything you do with that currency after purchase doesn't matter.

Parrot1986

ozm8ey wrote: »

As long as they're not pay 2 win i don't really care to be honest

This can be a short sighted view though, whilst they might not be P2W just now the more poor decisions a company makes and trouble with regulators it gets in the more they need to resort to raising funds and that’s where P2W comes in. I’d rather a safer and balanced approach to generating revenue than one focused more on greed.

jaws343

Parrot1986 wrote: »

ozm8ey wrote: »

As long as they're not pay 2 win i don't really care to be honest

This can be a short sighted view though, whilst they might not be P2W just now the more poor decisions a company makes and trouble with regulators it gets in the more they need to resort to raising funds and that’s where P2W comes in. I’d rather a safer and balanced approach to generating revenue than one focused more on greed.

Profit/sustainability does equal greed. Making money on a product you produce does not equal greed.

Arthmoor

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

they made 750 million dollars in the 1st 72 hours of Fallout 4 launch, yet that wasn't enough despite it probably only costing them 5-7 mill to make, market, and pay voice actors for the game.

Going to go out on a limb here and say that the budget for FO4 was probably something closer to $100 Million, since we already know the budget for Skyrim was a little over that and there was more done with FO4. 5-7 million wouldn't even pay the in-house developers for 6 years worth of salary, let alone a AAA voice acting crew.

Jayman1000

jaws343 wrote: »

I'll keep posting this on everyone of these nonsense threads that pop-up.

Crown crates are not gambling. Nobody has spent a single dime of their own money to purchase a crown crate. Not once, not ever.

You land on the important distinction here, once you buy Crowns, you can never convert them back to real money. You have bought a worthless currency. And anything you do with that currency after purchase doesn't matter.

Again, using technicalities to circumvent the laws so they can claim "legally not gambling". The so called "worthless" currency is not worthless to those that buy it, to the purchaser it holds value.

Cpt_Teemo

Parrot1986 wrote: »

ozm8ey wrote: »

As long as they're not pay 2 win i don't really care to be honest

This can be a short sighted view though, whilst they might not be P2W just now the more poor decisions a company makes and trouble with regulators it gets in the more they need to resort to raising funds and that’s where P2W comes in. I’d rather a safer and balanced approach to generating revenue than one focused more on greed.

Also there are different views of what P2w actually is, alot of people consider p2w as any means from converting real $ to fake in game currency no matter what your buying if its gear cosmetic etc.

MalagenR

I don't understand how consumers being idiots is the companies fault.

kargen27

Jayman1000 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

tactx wrote: »

Crown crates aren't gambling. You're always getting something for your money. Costumes, gems, exp scrolls, etc. It's only gambling if you're trying to win the lottery with a radiant mount instead of treating it as a bonus chance.

I often use crown crates to get what I'm after cheaper than buying the item directly from the store so I really like having them.... Oh and bring back storm atronach crates. Thanks!

It is gambling when you pay a set amount of cash don't know what you get. Gambling is not just defined by the possibly of not winning, but you seem to think that this is the case. It is not.

Gambling is usually legally defined as staking something of value upon the outcome of a competition, contest or chance that is not under his or her influence (it does NOT need to be like a lottery where you have a risk of winning nothing). Crown crates sure as hell seems like it falls under this definition. You are staking crowns bought for real money to get an chance controlled random outcome and you have no control or influence over said outcome. That is gambling. The way companies like Zenimax Online get around this is by claiming that virtual currencies, like crowns, does not hold real lfe value (thus players are technically not "staking something of (real life/actual) value") as it is a virtual currency as opposed to real life cash. So legally they seem to have found a loophole to circumvent gambling laws, but there is no doubt that crown crates is indeed gambling. They just found a loophole that seemingly makes them circumvent the gambling laws.

Gotta disagree. You can get gum packs with baseball cards in them. You know you will get a certain number of cards but not what cards. Same with crown crates. You are purchasing four (sometimes five) items when you purchase a crown crate. Stores (retail and online) have mystery boxes you can buy. Again you know you are getting something just don't know exactly what. Auctions that have you bidding on lots work the same way. You can see some containers but don't know what is inside. None of those examples are considered gambling under current laws and if you change the laws for one you gotta change it across the board.

I'm not a fan of crown crates because I do believe they take advantage of human nature but they are not gambling. Maybe addictive though. There was a study done a few years back that showed people preferred playing slot machines that had lots of blinking lights, bells and whistles rather than slot machines with no commotion and larger more frequent payouts. Games especially ones like Candy Crush are designed around this behavior. If different colored fireworks shot off behind Pacrooti each time you click on a card they would probably sell a lot more crates.

I didn't quite get what you are disagreeing with me on? Those gumpacks sounds, from your description, that they are indeed also gambling. Especially if the baseball cards are what purchasers are really going after. Kinda like those pokemon cards where you buy a bunch and you don't know what they contain. That's gambling too. Some kids get obsessed to the point of actual addiction and spend a lot of cash on it.... I don't like that. And I do agree with you, such types of gambling should also be regulated under gambling laws but for some reason they are not (or at least not in my country which is a shame because at one point it became a problem in the school. but that is several years ago we saw that). Imo that's just another example on how screwd businessmen see ways to circumvent laws for easy profit (gambling exploitation of children for example).

Now I don't know how popular these gum-baseball packs are anymore anyway. Maybe they are not popular now so no one really cares?

I still don't understand what you disagreeing with me on? sounds to me like you actually agree with my argument and sentiment.

I am saying it is not gambling because you know you will be getting at least four cards. You don't know what those four cards represent but that doesn't make it gambling. You want to call it gambling but legally it is not. And yes I fully agree those types of things can be addictive. Opening the card packs or the crown crates can cause a release of dopamine and people get addicted to that release. Facebook takes advantage of dopamine releases by allowing users to like each others posts. These forums take advantage by offering us awesomes and badges. Apps/games on cellphones are all pretty much dopamine driven. Gambling can also cause a release in dopamine and the more excitement they can introduce the bigger chance ofdopamine release and addiction. That is why slot machines have bells and flashing lights. All that commotion releases dopamine and it is the dopamine release that gets us addicted. That is the same reason the most popular pin-ball machines made lots of noise and had lots of flashing lights.

Purchasing four cards that you do not know the outcome of and you have no influence on said outcome = gambling. And yes some people get addicted and obsessed with collecting them, this includes children, which I simply find deplorable.

Legally, no, it is not. As I have said: developers have found ways to circumvent gambling laws making their gambling mechanics "legally not gambling" through technicalities. That is why, at least with lootboxes in online games, you see regulators now taking increased interest in tightening the laws and definition of gambling so that the law will cover the type of gambling we see with loot boxes. If the industry could figure out to regulate itself, it wouldn't be a problem.

No it is not gambling. You are told a crown crate will contain at least four cards and they all contain at least four cards. End of story.

There are many types of addictions and I agree the crown crates can take advantage of people that tend towards addictions.

Mentioning children is a straw man argument having nothing to do with whether crown crates are gambling or not. Again I agree that the crown crates could be taking advantage of children that do not know better. Then again anyone under 18 (in US) is suppose to have parental guidance and supervision when creating the account so I put this problem square on the parents.

Glurin

Ah yes. "Think of the children! For God's sake, won't anybody think of the children!!!"

Using children to evoke enough of an emotional response in people to shutdown the logic portions of their brains and agree with your agenda. Kind of ironic when you think about it.

In any event, you typically need a credit card to make loot box purchases, so there you go.

Elsonso

Glurin wrote: »

Ah yes. "Think of the children! For God's sake, won't anybody think of the children!!!"

Using children to evoke enough of an emotional response in people to shutdown the logic portions of their brains and agree with your agenda. Kind of ironic when you think about it.

In any event, you typically need a credit card to make loot box purchases, so there you go.

Credit cards, eh? They should require chip transactions when purchasing Crown Crates.

Jayman1000

kargen27 wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

tactx wrote: »

Crown crates aren't gambling. You're always getting something for your money. Costumes, gems, exp scrolls, etc. It's only gambling if you're trying to win the lottery with a radiant mount instead of treating it as a bonus chance.

I often use crown crates to get what I'm after cheaper than buying the item directly from the store so I really like having them.... Oh and bring back storm atronach crates. Thanks!

It is gambling when you pay a set amount of cash don't know what you get. Gambling is not just defined by the possibly of not winning, but you seem to think that this is the case. It is not.

Gambling is usually legally defined as staking something of value upon the outcome of a competition, contest or chance that is not under his or her influence (it does NOT need to be like a lottery where you have a risk of winning nothing). Crown crates sure as hell seems like it falls under this definition. You are staking crowns bought for real money to get an chance controlled random outcome and you have no control or influence over said outcome. That is gambling. The way companies like Zenimax Online get around this is by claiming that virtual currencies, like crowns, does not hold real lfe value (thus players are technically not "staking something of (real life/actual) value") as it is a virtual currency as opposed to real life cash. So legally they seem to have found a loophole to circumvent gambling laws, but there is no doubt that crown crates is indeed gambling. They just found a loophole that seemingly makes them circumvent the gambling laws.

Gotta disagree. You can get gum packs with baseball cards in them. You know you will get a certain number of cards but not what cards. Same with crown crates. You are purchasing four (sometimes five) items when you purchase a crown crate. Stores (retail and online) have mystery boxes you can buy. Again you know you are getting something just don't know exactly what. Auctions that have you bidding on lots work the same way. You can see some containers but don't know what is inside. None of those examples are considered gambling under current laws and if you change the laws for one you gotta change it across the board.

I'm not a fan of crown crates because I do believe they take advantage of human nature but they are not gambling. Maybe addictive though. There was a study done a few years back that showed people preferred playing slot machines that had lots of blinking lights, bells and whistles rather than slot machines with no commotion and larger more frequent payouts. Games especially ones like Candy Crush are designed around this behavior. If different colored fireworks shot off behind Pacrooti each time you click on a card they would probably sell a lot more crates.

I didn't quite get what you are disagreeing with me on? Those gumpacks sounds, from your description, that they are indeed also gambling. Especially if the baseball cards are what purchasers are really going after. Kinda like those pokemon cards where you buy a bunch and you don't know what they contain. That's gambling too. Some kids get obsessed to the point of actual addiction and spend a lot of cash on it.... I don't like that. And I do agree with you, such types of gambling should also be regulated under gambling laws but for some reason they are not (or at least not in my country which is a shame because at one point it became a problem in the school. but that is several years ago we saw that). Imo that's just another example on how screwd businessmen see ways to circumvent laws for easy profit (gambling exploitation of children for example).

Now I don't know how popular these gum-baseball packs are anymore anyway. Maybe they are not popular now so no one really cares?

I still don't understand what you disagreeing with me on? sounds to me like you actually agree with my argument and sentiment.

I am saying it is not gambling because you know you will be getting at least four cards. You don't know what those four cards represent but that doesn't make it gambling. You want to call it gambling but legally it is not. And yes I fully agree those types of things can be addictive. Opening the card packs or the crown crates can cause a release of dopamine and people get addicted to that release. Facebook takes advantage of dopamine releases by allowing users to like each others posts. These forums take advantage by offering us awesomes and badges. Apps/games on cellphones are all pretty much dopamine driven. Gambling can also cause a release in dopamine and the more excitement they can introduce the bigger chance ofdopamine release and addiction. That is why slot machines have bells and flashing lights. All that commotion releases dopamine and it is the dopamine release that gets us addicted. That is the same reason the most popular pin-ball machines made lots of noise and had lots of flashing lights.

Purchasing four cards that you do not know the outcome of and you have no influence on said outcome = gambling. And yes some people get addicted and obsessed with collecting them, this includes children, which I simply find deplorable.

Legally, no, it is not. As I have said: developers have found ways to circumvent gambling laws making their gambling mechanics "legally not gambling" through technicalities. That is why, at least with lootboxes in online games, you see regulators now taking increased interest in tightening the laws and definition of gambling so that the law will cover the type of gambling we see with loot boxes. If the industry could figure out to regulate itself, it wouldn't be a problem.

No it is not gambling. You are told a crown crate will contain at least four cards and they all contain at least four cards. End of story.

There are many types of addictions and I agree the crown crates can take advantage of people that tend towards addictions.

Mentioning children is a straw man argument having nothing to do with whether crown crates are gambling or not. Again I agree that the crown crates could be taking advantage of children that do not know better. Then again anyone under 18 (in US) is suppose to have parental guidance and supervision when creating the account so I put this problem square on the parents.

My opinion is that I find it deplorable that children are getting obsessed and addicted to, imo, gambly card collecting. That is not a straw man argument at all. I am not pretending to refute my opponents argument while actually refuting an argument that was not proposed by my opponent. You are misunderstanding what a straw man argument is.

Anyway, I understand your definition of gambling is different than mine. I still maintain that buying a set of of unknown cards with unknown outcome, is still gambling. There are some very rare cards that are very hard to get, and kids by tons of these packs in the hope to get them. Say what you want, I still think this is so close to gambling as it can get, if it not actually is gambling. For all intents and purposes I really think it is. I have seen the consequences for kids getting obsessed with.

Personally I think they reason regulators have not included these card collections under the definition of legally gambling because regulators, and people in general, do not view them as harmful enough.

Synthwavius

I'd be fine with them if profit from them would translate into game quality. I can't say that about ESO. I enjoyed Morrowind, Summerset was very neat but then comes single event and servers are either crashing from load or certain game aspects stop working. To hell with that.

DanteYoda

ozm8ey wrote: »

As long as they're not pay 2 win i don't really care to be honest

End game mmo is a fashion show, so technically Crown crates are pay to win.. Laugh all you want but its true.

Wildberryjack

Jayman1000 wrote: »

My opinion is that I find it deplorable that children are getting obsessed and addicted to, imo, gambly card collecting. That is not a straw man argument at all. I am not pretending to refute my opponents argument while actually refuting an argument that was not proposed by my opponent. You are misunderstanding what a straw man argument is.

Anyway, I understand your definition of gambling is different than mine. I still maintain that buying a set of of unknown cards with unknown outcome, is still gambling. There are some very rare cards that are very hard to get, and kids by tons of these packs in the hope to get them. Say what you want, I still think this is so close to gambling as it can get, if it not actually is gambling. For all intents and purposes I really think it is. I have seen the consequences for kids getting obsessed with.

Personally I think they reason regulators have not included these card collections under the definition of legally gambling because regulators, and people in general, do not view them as harmful enough.

And how are the kids buying them? Using mom and dads credit card. Maybe the parents should pay attention to what their kids are doing and not give them access to the credit card.

Unit117

Glurin wrote: »

Unit117 wrote: »

Thank god. Let us just buy what we want. The crown store was so much better then. I’m tired of the gambling crap

Uh, the crown store is exactly the same now as it was then, just with crown crates as additional items for purchase. You can still just buy what you want, and if what you want is only available in a crate, well that's what the gems are for.

No. When this game started it. There was no crown crates. Everything they made was put for a set price. There wasn’t anything put behind gambling. If I liked it. I could straight up buy it instead of spending 200 dollars for a chance or to get the crown jewel credits I need to buy a particular mount.

Ever since they added crates they lowered the qualtity and frequency of stuff we can straight up buy

Jayman1000

DjinnRa wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

My opinion is that I find it deplorable that children are getting obsessed and addicted to, imo, gambly card collecting. That is not a straw man argument at all. I am not pretending to refute my opponents argument while actually refuting an argument that was not proposed by my opponent. You are misunderstanding what a straw man argument is.

Anyway, I understand your definition of gambling is different than mine. I still maintain that buying a set of of unknown cards with unknown outcome, is still gambling. There are some very rare cards that are very hard to get, and kids by tons of these packs in the hope to get them. Say what you want, I still think this is so close to gambling as it can get, if it not actually is gambling. For all intents and purposes I really think it is. I have seen the consequences for kids getting obsessed with.

Personally I think they reason regulators have not included these card collections under the definition of legally gambling because regulators, and people in general, do not view them as harmful enough.

And how are the kids buying them? Using mom and dads credit card. Maybe the parents should pay attention to what their kids are doing and not give them access to the credit card.

I agree, parent should pay attention to what their kids are doing, I live by that rule with my kids. What is your point with this statement?

tinythinker

Acrolas wrote: »

players always receive something that enhances their experience

For loot crates, against them, either way I don't find the above statement to be true. It's subjective, and I consider 99% of the stuff I've gotten to be junk. Which makes sense. If they were all winners that enhanced the game you'd only need to purchase a few.

spartaxoxo

Acrolas wrote: »

But part of the lease in purchasing Services is the consent that crowns have no monetary value, that nothing in the Crown Store has monetary value, and that you don't own anything resulting from a Services purchase.

If nobody believed that until now, the Official Sweepstakes Rules from the current promotion set a binding value:

"Three (3) prizes consisting of every digital collectible item that has been offered in The Elder
Scrolls ® Online Crown Store since the launch of The Elder Scrolls ® Online through the
Sweepstakes Period credited to the winner’s valid The Elder Scrolls ® Online account. ARV:
$0 USD."


No matter how much you have spent on leasing crowns or Services, the result of those purchases has absolutely no aftermarket value. That's why I always sigh a little when an argument starts "I've spent $$$ on this game so far." That spending, as per the terms and agreements, has not made you or your account more valuable. We all share the same $0 account baseline regardless of if you have nothing or if you have everything.

The account can't lose real value. The account can't gain real value. If you feel that you should receive some prestige or status out of purchasing Services, and that other people have to recognize some intrinsic value in what you have received in the game for the sake of your own self-worth, that's something else entirely that getting rid of loot boxes won't solve.

That's just something they claim to try to avoid certain regulations and because servers can be shutdown. In actuality, an account with more money spent on it and things unlocked is worth more than a brand new account, and that is why there are entire black markets based on the purchase of said accounts in pretty much any mmo.

The only time all accounts are actually worth the same amount is when the games inevitably go out of business and every server is shutdown, at which point they are all worth nothing.

spartaxoxo

AlboMalefica wrote: »

I do understand how everyone has varied opinions regarding crown crates. I also do agree it is gambling but for a game that’s rated 18 (for Europe which is also the legal age for gambling) & anything worth while in the crate is purely cosmetic, would someone be kind enough to explain what’s exactly wrong with Zos crown crates?

I do get how the odds are not great for the best things but are we not all adults with a good understanding on how these things work so no one should be shocked to the low odds

They should be required to give the odds like at other gambling places, because a lot of people buy them under the impression that they are better than they are.

spartaxoxo

"FWIW many US states have no min age to buy a lottery ticket.
How come folks aren't outraged at that...the state allowing under age to gamble with lottery tickets."

I did not know that was a thing, that's why. In my state the age is 18, and that should be the age of every state imo.

spartaxoxo

Noggin_the_Nog wrote: »

The danger of Crown Crates lies in addiction, and gambling by minors. ZOS can not control either.
.

They could ask you to show them some ID before allowing you to purchase content intended for adult consumption and make the odds readily available at all times. They could also let people more easily see how much many total crowns they have spent (and on what, by category) and view the real dollar amount that translates to, not counting gifts. Another thing they can do is is if your card gets declined while attempting to buy them, you are given a warning. If it happens again, you are banned from purchasing them in an escalating penalty. Most people who are not addicts would not run into issues with that (and ones that are can contact customer service on an individual basis) but people consistently trying to spend money they don't have may need that cutoff.

These would all go a long way in responsible consumption without taking them away from adults who enjoy them and want to purchase them, and are perfectly capable of responsible behavior.

Perwulf

Noggin_the_Nog wrote: »

The danger of Crown Crates lies in addiction, and gambling by minors. ZOS can not control either.

Rated M for Mature.

If a kid gets his hands on this game, it's not ZOS's fault.

spartaxoxo

Ertosi wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Don't know where you got that definition

This is merriam-webster


1a: to play a game for money or property

b: to bet on an uncertain outcome


2. to stake something on a contingency (see CONTINGENCYsense 1) : take a chance

This is dictionary.com

1.to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.

2. to stake or risk money, or anything of value,on the outcome of something involvingchance:

The one you used, Oxford also includes the word bet as part of the definition. And when you look then go on to look up "betting" to see how that is defined you get this:

The action of gambling money on the outcome of a race, game, or other unpredictable event.

Jayman1000

Glurin wrote: »

Ah yes. "Think of the children! For God's sake, won't anybody think of the children!!!"

Using children to evoke enough of an emotional response in people to shutdown the logic portions of their brains and agree with your agenda. Kind of ironic when you think about it.

In any event, you typically need a credit card to make loot box purchases, so there you go.

It is clear that you have not read the comments that related to the children comments. Of if you actually have read the comments then what you are doing now is clear strawman (which is ironic since the previous poster before you wrongly accused me of applying a strawman argument); I did not mention children in relation to eso or eso's crown crates. I was replying to someone that gave his opinion on physical baseball cards and how he thought that these too were not gambling, but that if crown crates should be considered gambling then the baseball cards should too. THAT is what I replied to saying that I do indeed think that these baseball cards are gambling and YES I do think they should be considered gambling and regulated as such, especially because CHILDREN were getting a gambling addiction and problem from buying them. You should know this if you have bothered yourself to read the comments that actually mentioned children.

Duukar

Ertosi wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

As much as I would love to see loot boxes disappear from gaming, this is the US trade commission we're talking about here. I'm 99% sure the outcome, if there's ever an outcome, will be some "new and improved" label for games with loot boxes.

Or this will just end with a new tax on loot boxes. Which translates to an increase in crown crate prices, but otherwise no effect on any loot boxes whether they are exploitative or not.

And this is what the real issue is about. Various Gambling Commissions everywhere see someone (gaming companies) making money in a novel, effective, and legal way, so they are trying to change the definition of gambling so they can then regulate it and get an unearned dip in someone else's revenue.

Duukar wrote: »

The FTC specifically mentions, in 00:31-00:43 of the video I posted, exactly what Crown Crates are.

"Real currency spent for surprise winnings"

… for example. That is not the real definition of gambling. That is a purposely reframed definition for the sole purpose of trying to cash in on the revenue of gaming companies.

Meanwhile, misguided gamers who just don't like the idea of Loot Boxes jump on the bandwagon cause they love it when anyone "sticks it" to their favorite game companies. Why is it misguided? Mainly, because see above - the whole premise is false. Also because such a ban would cut into the revenue of said companies which decreases the long term health of their games. You want them to make money because they're not going to put more work into something that isn't giving them a return on their investment.

Or studies performed in the UK indicate that 30% of gaming children have spent real money on loot boxes and the current theory is that this is contributing to problem gambling later in life.

There are a bunch of European countries and the FTC in the USA that are very concerned with this practice and and the real implications it has for the public well being.

We could believe the governing bodies of these various large nations and see that there is a problem or we could believe you Ertosi, with your exactly zero expertise and training in this field. You can deliver your opinions with as much gusto and assertiveness as you like. You are incorrect.

As far as us spending money to have the games developed - The gaming industry has had a shift in the way they pay their developers. As recently revealed by blizzard employees after the train wreck of Diablo - Immortal they get paid CHUMP CHANGE now.

So the argument that the money spent on Crown Crates and loot boxes is going into developing the games we love is completely false. Its going into the bank accounts of CEOs and share holders who very currently are doing an excellent job of lying to us all. I use Fallout 76, Diablo Immortal, and Battlefront II as excellent examples of gaming companies spending their Loot box profit not on making games we love, but in fact releasing unfinished games we are expected to test for them and then pay more and more and more to have them finished.

meanwhile they are paying their developers less and less..

Stop being such a shill man.. Its embarrassing.

biovitalb16_ESO

I have always hated lootboxes and always will. If they come out with some kinda mount just put it in the damn store for $20 and if I want it I will buy it, I don't want to buy $80 worth of boxes to try and get it. I'll be happy to see them leave if anything comes of this.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Cant wait till this cancer gets purged from the gaming community.

Hail_Yourself

I think it’s funny that players are content spending $30 on a mount, or $180 on a property like the Colossal Aldmeri Domain, yet complain about strictly cosmetic loot boxes. Yes, other games like Battlefront tried to screw people over, but this game doesn’t fall into that category. I have absolutely no problems with crown crates, especially since the three guilds that I’m a part of regularly gift crown crates in trade for crafting supplies. Think whatever you want about that, but everyone involved was satisfied at the end of those transactions. If that’s not what we’re striving for, then what is?

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Hail_Yourself wrote: »

If that’s not what we’re striving for, then what is?

We are striving to encourage Game Developers actually develop games, not monetization vehicles disguised as games.

The more people who engame in micro-pay in games means devs create spend more resources on designing micropay and less on actually putting game content in the game.