See ya later crown crates!

Runs

I thought ZOS had this covered by the way they were described initially when they came out.

They are selling you crates with consumable items, and you may get lucky and get something special. Unless you got a crate that had 0 of the consumables, you got what you paid for.

I'm not saying they don't prey on people with gambling addiction. And I'm not saying I agree with them being put into the game, I flat out don't. I just believe they probably have their bases covered on the way they are being sold. And if they don't have their bases covered, what's next?

Will Cracker Jacks be taken off the market because kids keep buying them hoping for the decoder ring but keep getting stickers or fake tattoos instead? Happy Meals? Cereal? I remember going through box after box of either Cherios or Cornflakes, some cereal I did not like, as a kid till I finally got a box with a brand new crisp 1 dollar bill in the box.

If anything changes, my guess is you would get 4 cards only containing the consumables you pay for and the possibility of other items only comes with the fifth card if you are lucky to get it.

-Edit to add quote from Matt Firor before release of crates-
Quote taken from <<<

Matt Firor: The concept of Crown Crates is pretty easy: for a 400 crown purchase, you get a crate full of consumables as well as a chance at customization and convenience items. Crown Crates are obtainable exclusively in the Crown Store, and the consumables they contain are the same ones that you are probably already purchasing directly in the Crown Store. The difference is that you have a chance to get additional items in a Crown Crate – the same items that are on sale in the Crown Store. There is also a rarer chance to receive a discontinued limited-time-offer Crown Store item. The rarest items are Crown-Crate only items that we will cycle out every quarter or so for a new set.

AlboMalefica

Jayman1000 wrote: »

AlboMalefica wrote: »

I do understand how everyone has varied opinions regarding crown crates. I also do agree it is gambling but for a game that’s rated 18 (for Europe which is also the legal age for gambling) & anything worth while in the crate is purely cosmetic, would someone be kind enough to explain what’s exactly wrong with Zos crown crates?

I do get how the odds are not great for the best things but are we not all adults with a good understanding on how these things work so no one should be shocked to the low odds

You are basically asking "what's so wrong about gambling?". Well, you may have heard of gambling addicts and being addicted to gambling and the causes... so there's a problem right there. I hope you agree with this premise at least.

Obviously there are issues with gambling that need to be taken seriously. The same can be said for alcohol consumption too amongst many other things but as adults we are free to make our own choices. ZoS isn’t forcing anyone to buy (heavily advertised I grant you) & since it’s all cosmetic, there isn’t a “need” to buy or you will lose out on dps etc.

But as gambling addiction is a real issue, I would love to see if ZoS monitors accounts buying would could be an suspect amount and if they would intervene somehow? I can agree if people are demanding ZoS to provide more care to people who are addicted but to demand the removal of something because people could get addicted whilst most adults are purchasing sensibly seems reductive

Acrolas

But part of the lease in purchasing Services is the consent that crowns have no monetary value, that nothing in the Crown Store has monetary value, and that you don't own anything resulting from a Services purchase.

If nobody believed that until now, the Official Sweepstakes Rules from the current promotion set a binding value:

"Three (3) prizes consisting of every digital collectible item that has been offered in The Elder
Scrolls ® Online Crown Store since the launch of The Elder Scrolls ® Online through the
Sweepstakes Period credited to the winner’s valid The Elder Scrolls ® Online account. ARV:
$0 USD."


No matter how much you have spent on leasing crowns or Services, the result of those purchases has absolutely no aftermarket value. That's why I always sigh a little when an argument starts "I've spent $$$ on this game so far." That spending, as per the terms and agreements, has not made you or your account more valuable. We all share the same $0 account baseline regardless of if you have nothing or if you have everything.

The account can't lose real value. The account can't gain real value. If you feel that you should receive some prestige or status out of purchasing Services, and that other people have to recognize some intrinsic value in what you have received in the game for the sake of your own self-worth, that's something else entirely that getting rid of loot boxes won't solve.

GaldorP

Gambling is regulated in most nations since it exploits a human psychological vulnerability. The addictive effect of loot boxes is the exact same one that is created by "real" gambling. The excuse used by the games industry that lootboxes contain nothing of objective value and thus cannot be considered gambling is a technical one (and is at the same time an admission that what they offer their customers in exchange for money is - quite literally - worthless). I would argue though that items obtained from loot boxes *do* have value just like any other right to access certain services has value even if it's a non-transferable right.

In either case, lootboxes should be regulated like all forms of gambling because the psychological effect produced is the same.

To keep milking the whales in ESO, I'd suggest selling Apex mounts for 100-500$ each (or for whatever the average cost is right now) instead of hiding the real price behind secret odds. Lootboxes, in my opinion, are an unethical, irresponsible business practice.

On this topic: Before 27 July 2018, the following submissions were made to the Environment and Communications References Committee of the Australian Senate in an inquiry on the issue of Gaming micro-transactions for chance-based items. The commitee presented its report on 27 November 2018:
Submission 2 by Dr James Sauer and Dr Aaron Drummond (psychologists; excerpt):

Recommendations
Given the identified structural similarities between loot boxes and gambling, and the known potential for these mechanisms to produce maladaptive behavioural consequences, we recommend a two-tiered regulatory response (see also, Drummond & Sauer, 2018).

1. When loot box systems meet both the psychological and legal definitions of gambling, or in other cases where players can cash out in-game winnings, we recommend ratings agencies and gambling regulatory bodies consider restricting access to people of legal gambling age. Further, games that allow players to cash-out items via the distribution platform of the game itself (i.e., where the publisher, rather than a third party website, controls the cash-out mechanism), may also warrant regulatory oversight as bona fide gambling operations.
2. When loot box systems meet the psychological definitions of gambling (according to Griffiths’ criteria), but do not include the ability to cash-out winnings, we recommend that ratings agencies review these games and increase their recommended minimum age. Despite not meeting legal definitions of gambling, these systems exploit powerful psychological mechanisms associated with gambling behaviour. We recommend that the Australian Classification Board consider revising their guidelines to ensure all games with loot box systems that meet the psychological definitions of gambling are placed in an age-restricted category (either MA15+ or R18+). We suggest that the specific ratings given to such games should be based on revised guidelines developed by the Classifications Board, and depend on the prominence of the system within the game, and the specific features of the system (e.g., the reinforcement schedules in operation, and the odds of obtaining very high utility/desirability items). We also recommend that the Australian Classification Board adopt the content descriptor “Simulated Gambling” as the Entertainment Software Ratings Board in the US has done, and require distributors to apply this descriptor to all games with loot boxes that meet the psychological criteria for gambling (i.e., next to the classification on the box or website of the game).
   In both cases, we also recommend ratings agencies adopt additional parental advisory information detailing loot box mechanics in video games to help consumers and parents make informed decisions about engaging with these systems.

Finally, we note that in our opinion, the potential for loot boxes to have negative psychological and behavioural consequences does not depend on meeting the legal criteria for gambling (e.g., being able to cash out winnings). Rather, this potential comes from exposing young gamers to loot box systems that exploit potent mechanisms for initiating and maintaining gambling-like behaviour (e.g., variable ratio reinforcement).

Submission 8: The Victorian Responsible Gambling Foundation recommended the following 6 measures (excerpt):

1. Games containing loot boxes should be classified more stringently
2. Games in which loot boxes are purchased must send notifications immediately to the account holder along with a note about the dangers they can create
3. Odds of loot boxes containing any prizes on offer should be available, visible and accessible
4. Players should be able to put a limit on the number of loot boxes made available to them, the number that they open and the amount that can be spent over a given time period
5. Self –exclusion, opt out
6. Advertising of loot boxes should be restricted

Submission 25 by the Australian Council on Children and the Media (excerpt):

CONCLUSION:
Children and young people are enthusiastic participants in the world of online games. The growth of the provision of within–game-purchasable loot boxes in which there may be items which will advance the player (but may not) creates a very risky environment for minors. Such financial transactions which are facilitated by online providers of the games, can, on the evidence, are functionally indistinguishable from gambling from a psychological point of view, and should therefore be equated with gambling legally.

Decisive action needs to be taken by the Australian and State governments to protect
minors from this predatory practice.

Submission 26: The Australian Communications and Media Authority has collated "recent international responses to the loot box issue":

On the Netherlands (excerpt):

Of the six video games found not to be in contravention of Dutch law, the NGA nonetheless considers those games at odds with Dutch policy regarding preventing addiction as those 'loot boxes could nevertheless foster the development of addiction.' With respect to minors and game of chance mechanisms and addiction, the NGA noted:

Once minors are exposed to game of chance mechanisms, there is a significantly higher risk that they will have problems with it at a later stage in their lives. The literature indicates that exposure at an early age increases the risk of addiction and the severity of the addiction. [citation omitted]

On Belgium (excerpt):

Naessens outlined several recommendations for the Belgium Gaming Commission; entities which license brands to game developers (such as FIFA and Disney); game platforms which facilitate payments; and distributors and game developers. These recommendations were as follows.

For the Belgium Gaming Commission:

• A recommendation to update information and research on gambling elements in video games so parents and children can be better informed
• In responding to complaints about gambling elements in video games, the regulator should be able to inspect the video game
• Specific permits should be developed for games of chance in video games
• A ban on minors buying video games which have paid-for loot boxes
• Age verification when purchasing gift cards/codes for video games, in order that
  minors cannot make payments for video games not suitable for minors. For entities which grant licenses (such as FIFA and Disney):
• If a license is granted, quality standards should be considered, such as no illegal gambling, no promotion of match fixing etc.

For game platforms which facilitate payments:

• If games are not approved for minors, minors should not be permitted to make payments.

For distributors and game developers:

• Transparency regarding the chance of winning items
• The Belgium Gaming Commission should have complete control of the random number generator used for loot boxes
• Provide data regarding players and payments
• Introduce spending limits ('a financial ceiling') on loot boxes
• Paid-for loot boxes should not impede or disadvantage a game without paid-for loot boxes
• An informational symbol for 'gambling' to inform that the game contains gambling.

On China:

In December 2016 it was reported that China's Ministry of Culture requires video games which have loot boxes to provide information about the odds of receiving loot box items.

(There's also reports on Denmark, France, Germany, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States.)

There are many other interesting submissions including some from organizations with closer ties to the games industry that defend loot boxes (I find mostly with very weak or purely legal arguments "it's technically legal right now so there's no reason to change anything"; that was maybe a bit unfair paraphrasing by me). The majority, however, seems to conclude and recommend that something or several things needs to be changed. All submissions are published in full on the website of the Australian government that I linked to above

JaZ2091

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Problem I see now is i'm pretty sure online gambling crates is pretty much done tbh, but that doesn't stop the companies from raising the prices of the individual items to like 5-10x more than the original.

That's fine. The whales can pay for everything as long as content is getting pumped out. More money in my bank; however, if they go full P2W I'll quit no problem like I did with many other games. Games come and go.

Acrolas

I know it's a touchy issue, so I'll add one for your side.

I'd be absolutely okay with putting, says, 50 items and bundles in a crate season and having each one have the exact same 2/100 odds to be pulled, with the minimum bundle value being at least 401 crowns on a 400 crown purchase.

(but of course, to be clear, each pull is 2/100 so you would not be not guaranteed to get everything twice if you buy 100 crates)

If there's something that should have a lower population or count in the game due to lore reasons, then those items can be evaluated some other way. But it would be hypocritical to say that there has to be a hierarchy of rarity if everything is really worth nothing.

Jayman1000

AlboMalefica wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

AlboMalefica wrote: »

I do understand how everyone has varied opinions regarding crown crates. I also do agree it is gambling but for a game that’s rated 18 (for Europe which is also the legal age for gambling) & anything worth while in the crate is purely cosmetic, would someone be kind enough to explain what’s exactly wrong with Zos crown crates?

I do get how the odds are not great for the best things but are we not all adults with a good understanding on how these things work so no one should be shocked to the low odds

You are basically asking "what's so wrong about gambling?". Well, you may have heard of gambling addicts and being addicted to gambling and the causes... so there's a problem right there. I hope you agree with this premise at least.

Obviously there are issues with gambling that need to be taken seriously. The same can be said for alcohol consumption too amongst many other things but as adults we are free to make our own choices. ZoS isn’t forcing anyone to buy (heavily advertised I grant you) & since it’s all cosmetic, there isn’t a “need” to buy or you will lose out on dps etc.

But as gambling addiction is a real issue, I would love to see if ZoS monitors accounts buying would could be an suspect amount and if they would intervene somehow? I can agree if people are demanding ZoS to provide more care to people who are addicted but to demand the removal of something because people could get addicted whilst most adults are purchasing sensibly seems reductive

Personally Im not demanding the removal of crown crates, but rather an innovation of them. I suggested it further back in the thread, but the main points are adding clear information about the actual odds of getting items from the loot boxes. The other suggestion I have is adding the ability for players to influence the outcome, for example by completing in game weekly repeatable challenging achievements to improve the quality and quantity and the odds of getting content. I still think that players should be able to purchase crates because I suspect it's an important income for zos and without, well they'd have to do something else which may not be possible and that may hurt the future of the game, which I do not wish of course. But right now the crown crates are locked behind a paywall and you cannot influence their outcome. And the number of crates from daily rewards are staggeringly low even if you get them all for many many months in a row (as I mentioned earlier the crates in the daily rewards feels like bait for would-be gambling whales to get hooked on).

Shinshadow

Something tells me that a lot of politicians will get bought out.

Shardaxx

I bought 15 crates once and got a load of trash. Never again.

DanteYoda

When i was playing i used crown crates as they are really the only avenue to get certain things, and the actual 15 crown crate pack often turns out cheaper in the long run than buying things separate...

That said if they get removed i have no issues with it, they are a cancer to gaming that have become so ingrained you cannot buy anything unless you buy them..

Good bye loot crates.

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I buy crown crates, I'm 100% against shaming people who do buy crates, but that being said I'd rather see lootboxes removed. They are gambling and thus gambling laws should apply to them.

I think microtransactions from the crown store are the best way for ZOS to keep this game profitable and thus running. Loot boxes are unnecessary.

You do understand that Crown Crates are loot boxes right??

No one is shaming you, and adult, for doing what you want with your money. However, gambling for those under age is illegal.

Every time you buy a Crown Crate you are gambling. 100% no debate.

ESO is rated M..17+

FWIW many US states have no min age to buy a lottery ticket.
How come folks aren't outraged at that...the state allowing under age to gamble with lottery tickets.

I don't think that is okay, in my country you have to be at least 16 years old to buy lottery tickets and for knowledge games (horse race, betting matches etc) you have to be at least 18 years. In my opinion it's appalling that a developed democratic country like the US have states that allows children to gamble; I did not know this before you mentioned it btw.

Same Australia you have to be 18 to gamble no matter what type and its illegal to do it underage, funny how large gaming companies can abuse these laws daily..

ESO here is 15+

SirAndy

tactx wrote: »

Crown crates aren't gambling.

Tell that to someone who has a gambling addiction and spends thousands of real world dollars on crown crates to get something they believe they can't live without.

You are clearly not looking at this from the perspective of an addict ...

Noggin_the_Nog

AlboMalefica wrote: »

I do understand how everyone has varied opinions regarding crown crates. I also do agree it is gambling but for a game that’s rated 18 (for Europe which is also the legal age for gambling) & anything worth while in the crate is purely cosmetic, would someone be kind enough to explain what’s exactly wrong with Zos crown crates?

I do get how the odds are not great for the best things but are we not all adults with a good understanding on how these things work so no one should be shocked to the low odds

May I answer that with two examples-

1. I used to manage a bar with several slot machines. Customers would play these continually all night. They would come to the bar for a beer and change, but rush back in case some other punter grabbed 'their' machine. I emptied the machines every night when we closed and banked the cash the next day. The bar made more profit on the machines than the beer we sold. Jackpots were rare, but customers did enjoy spending their cash that way. At least I could watch out from behind the bar for any minors that might attempt to play.
We know Crown Crates have poor odds for 'valuable' loot. If you want to spend £100 a week on them - It's up to you, but at what point does that become an addiction? ZOS cannot watch out for minors gambling like I did from behind the bar.

2. Just because Crowns are a virtual currency does not negate the gambling aspect of Crown Crates. Think about a casino - you go in and buy chips(Crowns), play games of chance(Crown Crates), and hopefully win what you want(that special exclusive mount).

I do not think Loot Boxes the same. Rewards for the Worthy, Quest Rewards like the Clockwork City ones, Undaunted Keys, even Crafting Writ Rewards, all have a big random chance of good rewards. But these do not cost real money.

The danger of Crown Crates lies in addiction, and gambling by minors. ZOS can not control either.

I do enjoy getting free Crown Crates from monthly log in rewards and Twitch drops - but these are a free bonus.

Ackwalan

Goodby crown crates, hello subscription model only.

Ohtimbar

Investigation doesn't imply action, and I wouldn't expect much in the way of new regulation at the, ahem, present time

Elsonso

Runs wrote: »

I thought ZOS had this covered by the way they were described initially when they came out.

They are selling you crates with consumable items, and you may get lucky and get something special. Unless you got a crate that had 0 of the consumables, you got what you paid for.

They can say that, but when the customers buy the item for a different purpose, what ZOS says starts to hold less weight. Ask yourself this. If ZOS took away the mounts, pets, costumes, and other "special" items in the Crown Crates, would people want them? Would they sell enough to make them worth while? Probably not.

ZOS can say what they want, but people buy them for the "something special".

Runs wrote: »

Will Cracker Jacks be taken off the market because kids keep buying them hoping for the decoder ring but keep getting stickers or fake tattoos instead? Happy Meals? Cereal? I remember going through box after box of either Cherios or Cornflakes, some cereal I did not like, as a kid till I finally got a box with a brand new crisp 1 dollar bill in the box.

Fair question. The food in the Happy Meal, cereal box, and probably Cracker Jacks, has a higher value than the toy. With Crown Crates, the consumables do not have as much value as the "something special". That is the difference.

Arthmoor

Gambling implies risk of loss. As in you put down a bet, and when you lose the bet, your money is simply gone.

Crown Crates don't carry this risk as you always get something for the money spent.

For that matter Loot Boxes as set up in other games don't carry this risk either. So this whole idea that it's gambling is just plain dumb as NONE of it fits in with the known definitions of gambling.

ArchMikem

Acrolas wrote: »

ESO's version of the crate absolutely meets the outline of the Entertainment Software Association statement:

“Loot boxes are one way that players can enhance the experience that video games offer. Contrary to assertions, loot boxes are not gambling. They have no real-world value, players always receive something that enhances their experience, and they are entirely optional to purchase. They can enhance the experience for those who choose to use them, but have no impact on those who do not.”

That said, there are certainly loot box models in other games that fall outside that outline, and they need to be brought into compliance.

The end.

You access Crown Crates with Crowns, which definitely DO have real world value.

Real Cash = Crowns = Crates = Gambling.

idk

Duukar wrote: »

SHAME ON ZoS!

LOL shame on OP. OP clearly does not understand how government works to begin with (extremely slow and with heavy industry feedback).

Even more clearly OP severely underestimates the ability to adjust and adapt with the help of lawyers. Only a fool would think otherwise.

WuffyCerulei

I won't have an issue with crown crates being removed so long as I can still have access to the cool stuff. I really want the senche lizard mount coming soon, and I'd pay crowns for it.
But I have to say this. Buying crown crates is completely optional.

therift

Acrolas wrote: »

But part of the lease in purchasing Services is the consent that crowns have no monetary value, that nothing in the Crown Store has monetary value, and that you don't own anything resulting from a Services purchase.

If nobody believed that until now, the Official Sweepstakes Rules from the current promotion set a binding value:

"Three (3) prizes consisting of every digital collectible item that has been offered in The Elder
Scrolls ® Online Crown Store since the launch of The Elder Scrolls ® Online through the
Sweepstakes Period credited to the winner’s valid The Elder Scrolls ® Online account. ARV:
$0 USD."


No matter how much you have spent on leasing crowns or Services, the result of those purchases has absolutely no aftermarket value. That's why I always sigh a little when an argument starts "I've spent $$$ on this game so far." That spending, as per the terms and agreements, has not made you or your account more valuable. We all share the same $0 account baseline regardless of if you have nothing or if you have everything.

The account can't lose real value. The account can't gain real value. If you feel that you should receive some prestige or status out of purchasing Services, and that other people have to recognize some intrinsic value in what you have received in the game for the sake of your own self-worth, that's something else entirely that getting rid of loot boxes won't solve.

A couple of things to consider:

1) The trouble with adhesion contracts is that more than other contract types, they sometimes stray close to unconsciousability, either in whole or in part, and become unenforceable, in whole or in part. It would be interesting to see the legal defense for claiming goods or services, whether leased or purchased, are on one hand claimed to have zero value, while on the other hand having a set value in terms of private currency and conversion from legal tender.

2) This has not been subject to test in court.

I'm sure the attorneys who wrote the agreement and advise on day-to-day conduct are experts in their field and well-versed in regulatory and contract law and did their level best to do it correctly.

But nothing is certain until subject to judicial test, and the Federal Trade Commission is no slouch when it comes to consumer protection.

We'll see, I suppose.

karekiz

Don't worry they are just gonna sell the items for 25-30 USD each.

Sylvermynx

@WuffyCerulei - that's entirely true. Optional is what it is.... Now, I'm not really into this hate on ZOS for Crown Crates. When I want to spend money on them, I do. When I don't I don't. Since I started playing in late June, I've tripled the value of bought crates with the "coolios" from them, and as for the free ones, I'm so far ahead ZOS is NEVER going to catch up!

Then again, I don't gamble IRL any more.... I grew up in Vegas - I know EXACTLY who built those casinos. Wasn't me. I got prompted by my first husband to play a 6 way Keno ticket - so I did. I won $55 - and never played again. A few years later, I plopped a dime in a slot at a grocery while waiting with scant patience for my mother. I made $25 that time. So yeah - the keno ticket cost me 60 cents. Plus the dime in the slot. So I'm up on the casinos $79 and change....

But then.... there was waiting for my second husband to get off work at Harrah's in Reno.... walking up to the mega-slot with a payout of $50k, fumbling in the bottom of my purse for a silver dollar (yeah, real ones back that far), and having someone else beat me to it, winning that jackpot.

Yep. Never gambled again.

I don't consider the crates gambling personally.

Elsonso

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I won't have an issue with crown crates being removed so long as I can still have access to the cool stuff. I really want the senche lizard mount coming soon, and I'd pay crowns for it.
But I have to say this. Buying crown crates is completely optional.

Absolutely true. That does set a certain bar. You have to consider that, as a bar, "crown crates are optional" is so low that ants bang their antennae when they go under it. They are an optional part of a game with an optional cash store and optional subscription system. The whole game is an optional activity. Things don't get much more optional.

karekiz wrote: »

Don't worry they are just gonna sell the items for 25-30 USD each.

If they have to abandon Crown Crates, which I don't see ever happening, it will be interesting to see how they "punish" us for that. I am figuring that the apex radiant mounts won't be cheaper than 20k Crowns each.

Dragonnord

Crown crates are fine and should continue. Nobody is putting a gun in people's heads forcing them to buy the crates. You are against them, don't buy them. Period.

I like crates and the system used, and so will continue to buy them since it's the ONLY way to have things that others may not have. Otherwise, we ALL have the same stuff and it's boring.

Even the most difficult skin or achievement can be bought in the game, so long live crown crates with unique stuff!
 

Mr_Walker

They're just cosmetics, so I ignore them.

Brown Horse does just fine.

Jayman1000

lordrichter wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I won't have an issue with crown crates being removed so long as I can still have access to the cool stuff. I really want the senche lizard mount coming soon, and I'd pay crowns for it.
But I have to say this. Buying crown crates is completely optional.

Absolutely true. That does set a certain bar. You have to consider that, as a bar, "crown crates are optional" is so low that ants bang their antennae when they go under it. They are an optional part of a game with an optional cash store and optional subscription system. The whole game is an optional activity. Things don't get much more optional.

karekiz wrote: »

Don't worry they are just gonna sell the items for 25-30 USD each.

If they have to abandon Crown Crates, which I don't see ever happening, it will be interesting to see how they "punish" us for that. I am figuring that the apex radiant mounts won't be cheaper than 20k Crowns each.

Anything is completely optional. The worst p2w mobile games you can find: completely optional. You can still play the game, paying to win is entirely optional, no one is forcing you to pay to win..... Im not saying that crown crates are p2w, im just saying that p2w in those horrible games is also optional, you dont HAVE to do it. You dont have to do anything, you dont even have to play the games. (basically what im saying is the "you dont have to" argument is a bad argument, it can be used to argue for any and everything)

But if you want all the cool stuff, and lets face it, that's a huge part of why many people play the game... you HAVE to buy the crown crates.... you HAVE to play the gambling game.

Waffennacht

I'm not against crown crates nor am I against gambling

Twohothardware

Yeah can't wait till they ban crown crates so that the thing you didn't have to buy unless you wanted to gets replaced by the thing your forced to buy in order for them to keep the servers turned on lol.

Glurin

Jayman1000 wrote: »

AlboMalefica wrote: »

I do understand how everyone has varied opinions regarding crown crates. I also do agree it is gambling but for a game that’s rated 18 (for Europe which is also the legal age for gambling) & anything worth while in the crate is purely cosmetic, would someone be kind enough to explain what’s exactly wrong with Zos crown crates?

I do get how the odds are not great for the best things but are we not all adults with a good understanding on how these things work so no one should be shocked to the low odds

You are basically asking "what's so wrong about gambling?". Well, you may have heard of gambling addicts and being addicted to gambling and the causes... so there's a problem right there. I hope you agree with this premise at least.

The premise that gambling addicts exist, sure. But to put it bluntly, that's not my problem and it's not the government's either. That's something that is 100% an individual responsibility. The possibility that someone might get psychologically addicted to something is no reason to ban whatever it is.

The problem with loot boxes is not the loot boxes or the fact that companies make money from them. ("Lootboxes are a 50 billion dollar industry!" So? Profits are not a bad thing.) The problem is when they go from being an optional side bonus to P2W.

I don't know why some people around here get so worked up about crown crates. Crown crates are NOT what this whole kerfuffle is about. Or at least, what it should be about. I think people have a tendency to forget that this all blew up because EA went a step too far in their well known practice of locking progress behind loot box paywalls. Not that there weren't other companies pulling similar shenanigans of course, but EA is at the heart of it all and Battlefront 2 was the catalyst.

There's also the issue of what loot boxes will be replaced with if the zealots manage to get them banned outright. I can easily see them all cheering their victory right up until they realize there is now a whole lot of required $20+ monthly subscriptions out there and a 100% increase in price on everything in the in game stores. Not to mention an increase in the initial purchase prices.

Sylvermynx

Glurin wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

AlboMalefica wrote: »

I do understand how everyone has varied opinions regarding crown crates. I also do agree it is gambling but for a game that’s rated 18 (for Europe which is also the legal age for gambling) & anything worth while in the crate is purely cosmetic, would someone be kind enough to explain what’s exactly wrong with Zos crown crates?

I do get how the odds are not great for the best things but are we not all adults with a good understanding on how these things work so no one should be shocked to the low odds

You are basically asking "what's so wrong about gambling?". Well, you may have heard of gambling addicts and being addicted to gambling and the causes... so there's a problem right there. I hope you agree with this premise at least.

The premise that gambling addicts exist, sure. But to put it bluntly, that's not my problem and it's not the government's either. That's something that is 100% an individual responsibility. The possibility that someone might get psychologically addicted to something is no reason to ban whatever it is.

The problem with loot boxes is not the loot boxes or the fact that companies make money from them. ("Lootboxes are a 50 billion dollar industry!" So? Profits are not a bad thing.) The problem is when they go from being an optional side bonus to P2W.

I don't know why some people around here get so worked up about crown crates. Crown crates are NOT what this whole kerfuffle is about. Or at least, what it should be about. I think people have a tendency to forget that this all blew up because EA went a step too far in their well known practice of locking progress behind loot box paywalls. Not that there weren't other companies pulling similar shenanigans of course, but EA is at the heart of it all and Battlefront 2 was the catalyst.

There's also the issue of what loot boxes will be replaced with if the zealots manage to get them banned outright. I can easily see them all cheering their victory right up until they realize there is now a whole lot of required $20+ monthly subscriptions out there and a 100% increase in price on everything in the in game stores. Not to mention an increase in the initial purchase prices.

My guess is that those who are worked up over it are borderline if not outright addicts. As in - they KNOW they have a problem, but as long as it's just "crown crates" they think they're fine.

*shrug* Don't know, don't care. It's up to each person to decide whether to buy or not.

As for P2W landing.... I'd be gone right then. I don't do it. I won't do it. It's not fun. It's actually really ugly. As far as subs.... well, I've paid my way in all the games I've played so far: WoW, RIFT, ESO. That's not going to change - unless the servers go dark.