See ya later crown crates!

wolf486

For me I am ok with loot boxes in online games as long as the items are purely cosmetic or have no 'boosting' performances for a player to get ahead. Single player, off line games however? Nope, loot boxes have zero business being there.

Crown crates I bought with potions or duplicates in them helped me get some nice mounts. Lottery tickets I bought and didn't win are now recycled scraps of paper somewhere.

pdebie64b16_ESO

I think its rediculous to get a chance on an apex mounts in a rpg game by gamble with real money for it without any way to get it in game, some are in the crown store but others are limited offers for crown gems and the only way to get gems is to buy crown crates and extract the "rewards" for crown gems what is a huge money sink.

I hope this kind of loot boxes will be forbidden.

Hurbster

Acrolas wrote: »

ESO's version of the crate absolutely meets the outline of the Entertainment Software Association statement:

“Loot boxes are one way that players can enhance the experience that video games offer. Contrary to assertions, loot boxes are not gambling. They have no real-world value, players always receive something that enhances their experience, and they are entirely optional to purchase. They can enhance the experience for those who choose to use them, but have no impact on those who do not.”

That said, there are certainly loot box models in other games that fall outside that outline, and they need to be brought into compliance.

The end.

Lol, 'enhances the experience' 3 times in that paragraph tells me everything I need to know about that statement.

Duukar

jaws343 wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Of course crates are loot boxes and of course it is gambling. Corporate equivocations on this are the typical garbage you get from PR guys and lawyers. They say:

1) They arn't gambling because you always get more total crown value in a crate than buying the items individually.

Wow, what a load of hogwash. Creating super over priced consumable crown items that nobody buys like crown soul gems and crown food does not make those items worth what you priced them at. Do you think that it I open a convenience store selling $200 cans of pop and also $100 raffle tickets that might win you a car but will always give you a $200 can of pop I can avoid regulation. Lol. Nobody buys the crates as a less expensive way to get garbage crown food and everybody knows it.

2) Crown crates arn't gambling because crowns arn't money.

I guess casinos don't do gambling because they use chips then. How do you get crowns? Oh yea, money and only money.

3) Crown crates arn't gambling because the items involved have no real world value.

Not true, people pay lots of money for the items so they have value. Saying you can't exchange them in an EULA does not make them valueless. This has been ruled on in court several times when people destroyed other's in game items or stole them. A more interesting legal question here is whether it is legal to prevent people from selling desirable items to others or their accounts themselves because of an EULA. I would sort of doubt that with even money on both sides the EULA would stand. I think it is mostly a case of even money not being on both sides that keeps most EULA's afloat.

4) Crown crates are not gambling because the items are not pay to win, they are cosmetic.

Good on ZOS for keeping crown store not pay to win. They have been very good about this and I would be gone in two shakes if they weren't. It really doesn't have anything to do with whether crates are gambling though. I want a shadow senche mount a lot more than a perfected assylum staff despite the fact the mount offers no power benefit and the staff does. Value is determined by what people want and are willing to pay for and a mammoth fashion industry says that has little to do with utility.


So, I have to ask myself I care that crates are gambling and take advantage of weak minded adults as well as children and teens with their undeveloped prefrontal cortexes. I'm really not sure I want to answer that question because I know I would have to pay more for my gaming experience if is was not subsidized by people who are not fully in control of their actions in at least some sense. Moral questions, legal questions, even religious questions. I wonder what Arkay's take on gambling is? I'll bet I know Molag Balls.

I am going to ignore points 1, 3, and 4 because those aren't arguments that people are making.

Now as for point 2.

Casinos and chips are gambling. Why? Because if I buy 10$ worth of Chips, those Chips are worth 10$ and I can immediately exchange those chips for my 10$ and walk out of the casino. If I put 10$ of chips down on the Roulette table and it hits, those winnings are given to me in chips, and each of those chips have a real world value that I can then go up and cash out for actual money and walk out of the casino.

Crowns are not chips. They are a virtual currency that can not be exchanged for real world money. If I spent the same 10$ on crowns I could not cash in those crowns for money. When you spend money on Crowns, that is what your money is being spent on. Not the other consumables and mounts and cosmetic items in the Crown Store. You are buying worthless crowns and then deciding to exchange that worthless currency for other worthless items. Whether or not you apply a false sense of value to the currency is irrelevant. It equals 0$ the moment you hit purchase on the crowns. And anything you exchange the crowns for cannot be considered gambling because you are exchanging 1 item that has 0$ monetary value for another item that has 0$ monetary value.

People are arguing his point 1,3 and 4. Have you not read the thread?

Quite a few of the posts you obviously didn't read provided highly reputable and globally accepted definitions of gambling which don't line up with your "feelings" about what gambling are.

I feel bad for you and everyone else who keeps regurgitating the same garbage in the face of clear proof from reputably cited sources.

In addition the FTC and law makers in Europe don't agree with your "feelings" and in all honesty that all that matters. Your feeling simply don't.

Datolite

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I buy crown crates, I'm 100% against shaming people who do buy crates, but that being said I'd rather see lootboxes removed. They are gambling and thus gambling laws should apply to them.

I think microtransactions from the crown store are the best way for ZOS to keep this game profitable and thus running. Loot boxes are unnecessary.

You do understand that Crown Crates are loot boxes right??

No one is shaming you, and adult, for doing what you want with your money. However, gambling for those under age is illegal.

Every time you buy a Crown Crate you are gambling. 100% no debate.

Yes, I am aware. Nothing in my post suggested otherwise, and I agree gambling laws should be applied to lootboxes.

And actually, people on here shame other players all the time for buying crates...

I'm not sure what the point of your reply is...?

It's because you perpetuate a bad system and give ZOS more reasons to lock rewards behind loot boxes. So... shame on you. :P

Rain_Greyraven

Same old idiotic arguments....

In five years the bitter clingers will still be saying.

loot boxes are a really really really going away.

No fer sure this time.

AbysmalGhul

Artheiron wrote: »

I hope they will put the hammer down on the lootboxes, but is only about lootboxes not microtransactions right?

so probably companies will increase their cash store prices, cut more content out of their games, sell the quest/mission rewards as products in cash store like eso does. I believe companies will find a workaround soon if lootboxes goes out of the business so I wouldn't cheer just yet.

If they really want to save kids and their families then they should regulate all kinds of money transactions until gaming industry becomes as reliable as automotive industry.

You know, no car brand will sell you a car then try to sell its tires and wheels via microtransactions.
We'll talk about it, just wait 10 more years.

They do. It's called upgrade packages which they go way out of their way to try and sell you. And yes, car prices do get inflated due having named brand tires, stereos , power windows, warranties etc etc etc. regardless of what package you buy. Check the itemized receipt next time you purchase a vehicle. You literally get charged for everything even with a basic package, including 300 + dollars for a guy to stand in line to get your temporary tag.

RinaldoGandolphi

wolf486 wrote: »

For me I am ok with loot boxes in online games as long as the items are purely cosmetic or have no 'boosting' performances for a player to get ahead. Single player, off line games however? Nope, loot boxes have zero business being there.

.

You shouldn't be.

the laws of economics state that companies will invest the most resources into areas that give the most profits.

Where do you think ZOS and all the other B2P and F2P/mobiles games out there invest most of their resources into? that cash shop because it gives the most profit with the least amount of resources invested, this is how ecnomics works, and how companies make profits.

the biggest reason ESO has had some many bugs over the years and so many of them not fixed is because the playerbase keeps buying loot boxes and cash shop items, as long as a healthy bottom line keeps spewing out of a cash shop with items that take a fraction of the time and resources to create compared to DLC's and bug fixes, thats where the money is going to be spent.

I am not talking down on anyone, but a basic economics course should be a requirement in today's high schools. Consumers can make better decisions if they understand how macro and micro economics work. Companies and people are driven by their own self interests. Companies strive to make the most amount of profits with the least amount of resources. The cash shop is a perfect digital example of this.

why commit 60% of human capital to fixing game bugs so more people buy the game, when you can commit 20% of human capital to a cash shop and bring in more profits from your current game population and spend less money paying said human capital on fixing game bugs.

The advent of cash shops and loot crates are the biggest threat to the future of video games, even more so than restrictive DRM.