See ya later crown crates!

Duukar

https://youtu.be/u7eSLX5ti-A?t=24


I hope crown crates die in a glorious fire! Online gambling indeed and 100% available to those under age.. SHAME ON ZoS!

Katahdin

Wow 50 BILLION prediction from loot boxes industry wide by 2022.

No wonder they are so endemic

Hopefully they regulate them out.
Just put the stuff in the crown store directly ZoS

PrayingSeraph

I buy crown crates, I'm 100% against shaming people who do buy crates, but that being said I'd rather see lootboxes removed. They are gambling and thus gambling laws should apply to them.

I think microtransactions from the crown store are the best way for ZOS to keep this game profitable and thus running. Loot boxes are unnecessary.

Duukar

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I buy crown crates, I'm 100% against shaming people who do buy crates, but that being said I'd rather see lootboxes removed. They are gambling and thus gambling laws should apply to them.

I think microtransactions from the crown store are the best way for ZOS to keep this game profitable and thus running. Loot boxes are unnecessary.

You do understand that Crown Crates are loot boxes right??

No one is shaming you, and adult, for doing what you want with your money. However, gambling for those under age is illegal.

Every time you buy a Crown Crate you are gambling. 100% no debate.

Acrolas

ESO's version of the crate absolutely meets the outline of the Entertainment Software Association statement:

“Loot boxes are one way that players can enhance the experience that video games offer. Contrary to assertions, loot boxes are not gambling. They have no real-world value, players always receive something that enhances their experience, and they are entirely optional to purchase. They can enhance the experience for those who choose to use them, but have no impact on those who do not.”

That said, there are certainly loot box models in other games that fall outside that outline, and they need to be brought into compliance.

The end.

PrayingSeraph

Duukar wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I buy crown crates, I'm 100% against shaming people who do buy crates, but that being said I'd rather see lootboxes removed. They are gambling and thus gambling laws should apply to them.

I think microtransactions from the crown store are the best way for ZOS to keep this game profitable and thus running. Loot boxes are unnecessary.

You do understand that Crown Crates are loot boxes right??

No one is shaming you, and adult, for doing what you want with your money. However, gambling for those under age is illegal.

Every time you buy a Crown Crate you are gambling. 100% no debate.

Yes, I am aware. Nothing in my post suggested otherwise, and I agree gambling laws should be applied to lootboxes.

And actually, people on here shame other players all the time for buying crates...

I'm not sure what the point of your reply is...?

PrayingSeraph

Acrolas wrote: »

ESO's version of the crate absolutely meets the outline of the Entertainment Software Association statement:

“Loot boxes are one way that players can enhance the experience that video games offer. Contrary to assertions, loot boxes are not gambling. They have no real-world value, players always receive something that enhances their experience, and they are entirely optional to purchase. They can enhance the experience for those who choose to use them, but have no impact on those who do not.”

That said, there are certainly loot box models in other games that fall outside that outline, and they need to be brought into compliance.

The end.

The problem is that you are using the argument of authority which only works if every party accepts said authority.

I sure as hell don't accept the ESA as an authority...

Duukar

The FTC has the ability to Govern the ESA, change their rules, and smash their puny statement into pulp like the HULK.

The people who regulate this are having another very serious look at it. If you think no changes will come from this then I believe you are mistaken.

I also believe that you need to have another look at the definition of gambling. The virtual world is starting to have some pull as far as value is concerned. People are trading in game currency for Crowns which translates into time(or labor) for crowns.

Things are changing.

The end? Thats some pretty condescending s(*)!

Peekachu99

We’re still a far cry from the ‘eradication of loot boxes’. Probably years from any kind of legislation. Still...it’s nice to see that our governments are finally paying attention.

Duukar

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I buy crown crates, I'm 100% against shaming people who do buy crates, but that being said I'd rather see lootboxes removed. They are gambling and thus gambling laws should apply to them.

I think microtransactions from the crown store are the best way for ZOS to keep this game profitable and thus running. Loot boxes are unnecessary.

You do understand that Crown Crates are loot boxes right??

No one is shaming you, and adult, for doing what you want with your money. However, gambling for those under age is illegal.

Every time you buy a Crown Crate you are gambling. 100% no debate.

Yes, I am aware. Nothing in my post suggested otherwise, and I agree gambling laws should be applied to lootboxes.

And actually, people on here shame other players all the time for buying crates...

I'm not sure what the point of your reply is...?

Your initial reply seemed to be drawing a line between Crown Crates and Loot Boxes. I was confused and was seeking clarification. You clarified and for that, I thank you!

PrayingSeraph

Duukar wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I buy crown crates, I'm 100% against shaming people who do buy crates, but that being said I'd rather see lootboxes removed. They are gambling and thus gambling laws should apply to them.

I think microtransactions from the crown store are the best way for ZOS to keep this game profitable and thus running. Loot boxes are unnecessary.

You do understand that Crown Crates are loot boxes right??

No one is shaming you, and adult, for doing what you want with your money. However, gambling for those under age is illegal.

Every time you buy a Crown Crate you are gambling. 100% no debate.

Yes, I am aware. Nothing in my post suggested otherwise, and I agree gambling laws should be applied to lootboxes.

And actually, people on here shame other players all the time for buying crates...

I'm not sure what the point of your reply is...?

Your initial reply seemed to be drawing a line between Crown Crates and Loot Boxes. I was confused and was seeking clarification. You clarified and for that, I thank you!

Fair enough man. Yeah I buy crown crates but I am not a fan of them or any loot boxes. The reason is that the things they contain are more valuable to me than my distaste of crate/lootboxes.

Jayman1000

Duukar wrote: »

I hope crown crates die in a glorious fire! Online gambling indeed and 100% available to those under age.. SHAME ON ZoS!

I don't hope crown crates die, I hope they stop making them mystery gambling boxes. They can keep crown crates, but I want changed into an innovative system instead, where actual skillful gameplay has influence on how many crates you get and the quality/quantity of the contents. Here's just an idea: For example completing weekly challenging repeatable challenges/achievements in maelstrom arena could add to the quality/amount of the crown crates. Think up many more examples for dungeons and trials too.

On top of this it should be transparent what the actual chances for each type of loot content for each crown crate.

Of course I still think people should be able to buy their way to the crown crates. One of the problems today is that these crates are almost exclusively hidden behind the paywall, you cannot play the game to get them (except for a very meager amount from the daily reward system, which really just serves as a sort of bait for would-be whales to get hooked on).

Acrolas

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

The problem is that you are using the argument of authority which only works if every party accepts said authority.

I sure as hell don't accept the ESA as an authority...

The ESA statement is based upon established legislature. To legally be gambling it has to utilize real monetary value and there has to be an element of risk. Crowns have no monetary value. The itemized crown values of the rewards always exceeds the 400 crowns spent.

As far as, "receive something that enhances their experience" most non-consumables in the crates are not only collectibles, but they have included text that supports or references lore. Whether you like the item is subjective. The item exists as an extension of the game world you're already demonstrating an interest in.

And Bethesda is an ESA member, so what the ESA says is the attitude this game is going to adopt. You're effectively rejecting Bethesda by rejecting the ESA.

tactx

Crown crates aren't gambling. You're always getting something for your money. Costumes, gems, exp scrolls, etc. It's only gambling if you're trying to win the lottery with a radiant mount instead of treating it as a bonus chance.

I often use crown crates to get what I'm after cheaper than buying the item directly from the store so I really like having them.... Oh and bring back storm atronach crates. Thanks!

Cpt_Teemo

Acrolas wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

The problem is that you are using the argument of authority which only works if every party accepts said authority.

I sure as hell don't accept the ESA as an authority...

The ESA statement is based upon established legislature. To legally be gambling it has to utilize real monetary value and there has to be an element of risk. Crowns have no monetary value. The itemized crown values of the rewards always exceeds the 400 crowns spent.

As far as, "receive something that enhances their experience" most non-consumables in the crates are not only collectibles, but they have included text that supports or references lore. Whether you like the item is subjective. The item exists as an extension of the game world you're already demonstrating an interest in.

And Bethesda is an ESA member, so what the ESA says is the attitude this game is going to adopt. You're effectively rejecting Bethesda by rejecting the ESA.

They don't always exceed the value of 400 crowns, I value 400 crowns over 3 pots and a xp scroll you can only get 1-3 gems each out of

Acrolas

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

They don't always exceed the value of 400 crowns, I value 400 crowns over 3 pots and a xp scroll you can only get 1-3 gems each out of

As per what the consumables and collectibles would cost in crowns if you were to purchase them yourself in the crown store, crown crates reward you with items collectively in excess of 400 crowns.

We're going off objective valuation here.

Jayman1000

Acrolas wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

They don't always exceed the value of 400 crowns, I value 400 crowns over 3 pots and a xp scroll you can only get 1-3 gems each out of

As per what the consumables and collectibles would cost in crowns if you were to purchase them yourself in the crown store, crown crates reward you with items collectively in excess of 400 crowns.

We're going off objective valuation here.

I didn't write that (quoting the wrong person)

Cpt_Teemo

Acrolas wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

They don't always exceed the value of 400 crowns, I value 400 crowns over 3 pots and a xp scroll you can only get 1-3 gems each out of

As per what the consumables and collectibles would cost in crowns if you were to purchase them yourself in the crown store, crown crates reward you with items collectively in excess of 400 crowns.

We're going off objective valuation here.

Ah thought you meant personal preference too

Acrolas

Jayman1000 wrote: »

I didn't write that (quoting the wrong person)

Sorry! I guess my post choreography isn't the greatest when I'm on the phone.

Veinblood1965

If this is gambling then so are gumball machines and those stupid crane machines in just about every pizza place on the planet, it's just a different form.

Jayman1000

tactx wrote: »

Crown crates aren't gambling. You're always getting something for your money. Costumes, gems, exp scrolls, etc. It's only gambling if you're trying to win the lottery with a radiant mount instead of treating it as a bonus chance.

I often use crown crates to get what I'm after cheaper than buying the item directly from the store so I really like having them.... Oh and bring back storm atronach crates. Thanks!

It is gambling when you pay a set amount of cash don't know what you get. Gambling is not just defined by the possibly of not winning, but you seem to think that this is the case. It is not.

Gambling is usually legally defined as staking something of value upon the outcome of a competition, contest or chance that is not under his or her influence (it does NOT need to be like a lottery where you have a risk of winning nothing). Crown crates sure as hell seems like it falls under this definition. You are staking crowns bought for real money to get an chance controlled random outcome and you have no control or influence over said outcome. That is gambling. The way companies like Zenimax Online get around this is by claiming that virtual currencies, like crowns, does not hold real lfe value (thus players are technically not "staking something of (real life/actual) value") as it is a virtual currency as opposed to real life cash. So legally they seem to have found a loophole to circumvent gambling laws, but there is no doubt that crown crates is indeed gambling. They just found a loophole that seemingly makes them circumvent the gambling laws.

Jayman1000

Acrolas wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

I didn't write that (quoting the wrong person)

Sorry! I guess my post choreography isn't the greatest when I'm on the phone.

I have done that a number of times too

AlboMalefica

I do understand how everyone has varied opinions regarding crown crates. I also do agree it is gambling but for a game that’s rated 18 (for Europe which is also the legal age for gambling) & anything worth while in the crate is purely cosmetic, would someone be kind enough to explain what’s exactly wrong with Zos crown crates?

I do get how the odds are not great for the best things but are we not all adults with a good understanding on how these things work so no one should be shocked to the low odds

Jayman1000

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

If this is gambling then so are gumball machines and those stupid crane machines in just about every pizza place on the planet, it's just a different form.

Yes technically they could be, but since you bring up the claw machines I think you are forgetting that they are actually a game of skill. If you play it skillfully you can definitely influence the outcome = not gambling. If you did not have any control of the claw then I would be more positive about your argument about it being gambling.

In the case of gumball machines I think theyr impact is extremely small to the point of hilariously insignificant. And you still get GUM from the machine every time you play, which is what the machine sells: it sells gum, and you get that everytime. You then also get some random bonus stuff, but it's quite clear that you will get gum every time, right? Not really gambling then, and even so it's a ridiculously insignificant example.

You need better arguments if you want to try and prove loot boxes and crown crates are not so bad in terms of gambling.

Cpt_Teemo

Yeah, 10-25 cents per gum compared to an online digital item for about 3.5$

Cpt_Teemo

Oops accidentally quoted myself

Jayman1000

AlboMalefica wrote: »

I do understand how everyone has varied opinions regarding crown crates. I also do agree it is gambling but for a game that’s rated 18 (for Europe which is also the legal age for gambling) & anything worth while in the crate is purely cosmetic, would someone be kind enough to explain what’s exactly wrong with Zos crown crates?

I do get how the odds are not great for the best things but are we not all adults with a good understanding on how these things work so no one should be shocked to the low odds

You are basically asking "what's so wrong about gambling?". Well, you may have heard of gambling addicts and being addicted to gambling and the causes... so there's a problem right there. I hope you agree with this premise at least.

Duukar

I guess I have to explain the nature of gambling and addiction to some of you. Oh wait, there is google for that!

If you want something only available in crates when you finally get the item you get the same endorphin dump as you would from winning at roulette.

You pay real money for the CHANCE to get what you want. Its gambling plain and simple. They have something you want. You pay your money to have a CHANCE to get it.

You can justify it how ever you like but the chance/reward element is the essence of gambling. They should just sell you the mount you want or the motif you want.

Cpt_Teemo

Problem I see now is i'm pretty sure online gambling crates is pretty much done tbh, but that doesn't stop the companies from raising the prices of the individual items to like 5-10x more than the original.

Juju_beans

Duukar wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I buy crown crates, I'm 100% against shaming people who do buy crates, but that being said I'd rather see lootboxes removed. They are gambling and thus gambling laws should apply to them.

I think microtransactions from the crown store are the best way for ZOS to keep this game profitable and thus running. Loot boxes are unnecessary.

You do understand that Crown Crates are loot boxes right??

No one is shaming you, and adult, for doing what you want with your money. However, gambling for those under age is illegal.

Every time you buy a Crown Crate you are gambling. 100% no debate.

ESO is rated M..17+

FWIW many US states have no min age to buy a lottery ticket.
How come folks aren't outraged at that...the state allowing under age to gamble with lottery tickets.

Jayman1000

Juju_beans wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I buy crown crates, I'm 100% against shaming people who do buy crates, but that being said I'd rather see lootboxes removed. They are gambling and thus gambling laws should apply to them.

I think microtransactions from the crown store are the best way for ZOS to keep this game profitable and thus running. Loot boxes are unnecessary.

You do understand that Crown Crates are loot boxes right??

No one is shaming you, and adult, for doing what you want with your money. However, gambling for those under age is illegal.

Every time you buy a Crown Crate you are gambling. 100% no debate.

ESO is rated M..17+

FWIW many US states have no min age to buy a lottery ticket.
How come folks aren't outraged at that...the state allowing under age to gamble with lottery tickets.

I don't think that is okay, in my country you have to be at least 16 years old to buy lottery tickets and for knowledge games (horse race, betting matches etc) you have to be at least 18 years. In my opinion it's appalling that a developed democratic country like the US have states that allows children to gamble; I did not know this before you mentioned it btw.