Good PVP'ers vs. Bad PVP'ers

TBois

MalagenR wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Lol watching arya lose 1v1 is literally a 6-10 minutes fight most of the time bring closer to 10.

Those are the best fights though, they're such good fights, those are the types of fights small scalers are constantly looking for....why don't I see any in the last video?

And I'm not talking about a pre-arranged duel where Arya has time to change builds / gear to perfectly prepare for said opponent. I'm talking - open world build - mashed potato build - fighting another l33t small scale pvper in open world.

Where are the clips boy!?

Personally as a small scaler we look for outnumbered fights. But if 2 guys choose to attack us what are we supposed to do? The only people we truly “zerg” Down when we catch are those who wear tabards such as AoTP, vae victus, kush, dreadlords, and the plethora of DC zerg guilds.


I’m sure arya has plenty of videos to show you. But as I already stated prior that most 1vX or small scale action is against average at best players no matter the platform.

The GvG stuff takes place in structured environment. Most cases the higher end small scale guilds don’t fight each other in open world because that’s not the objective for each.


Same with 1vX people there is a mutual understanding that each other aren’t the objective. Although 1vX is on its death bed atm.


I assume you play ps4 NA?

I guess the only real combative point I made, which I still stand by, is that the reason you avoid these guys in Open World isn't because of some perceived honor code, even though many of you might think that, but because both parties are subconsciously agreeing to avoid giving the other losses so they can continue to ride high atop their white stallion don't have to continue to ride their white stallion.

Fixed it for you

MalagenR

TBois wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Lol watching arya lose 1v1 is literally a 6-10 minutes fight most of the time bring closer to 10.

Those are the best fights though, they're such good fights, those are the types of fights small scalers are constantly looking for....why don't I see any in the last video?

And I'm not talking about a pre-arranged duel where Arya has time to change builds / gear to perfectly prepare for said opponent. I'm talking - open world build - mashed potato build - fighting another l33t small scale pvper in open world.

Where are the clips boy!?

Personally as a small scaler we look for outnumbered fights. But if 2 guys choose to attack us what are we supposed to do? The only people we truly “zerg” Down when we catch are those who wear tabards such as AoTP, vae victus, kush, dreadlords, and the plethora of DC zerg guilds.


I’m sure arya has plenty of videos to show you. But as I already stated prior that most 1vX or small scale action is against average at best players no matter the platform.

The GvG stuff takes place in structured environment. Most cases the higher end small scale guilds don’t fight each other in open world because that’s not the objective for each.


Same with 1vX people there is a mutual understanding that each other aren’t the objective. Although 1vX is on its death bed atm.


I assume you play ps4 NA?

I guess the only real combative point I made, which I still stand by, is that the reason you avoid these guys in Open World isn't because of some perceived honor code, even though many of you might think that, but because both parties are subconsciously agreeing to avoid giving the other losses so they can continue to ride high atop their white stallion don't have to continue to ride their white stallion.

Fixed it for you

lol - game, set, match -

YOU'RE SOFT. CAN'T FIGHT CAUSE SCARED MIGHT LOSE AND HAVE TO RUN BACK!

TBois

MalagenR wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Lol watching arya lose 1v1 is literally a 6-10 minutes fight most of the time bring closer to 10.

Those are the best fights though, they're such good fights, those are the types of fights small scalers are constantly looking for....why don't I see any in the last video?

And I'm not talking about a pre-arranged duel where Arya has time to change builds / gear to perfectly prepare for said opponent. I'm talking - open world build - mashed potato build - fighting another l33t small scale pvper in open world.

Where are the clips boy!?

Personally as a small scaler we look for outnumbered fights. But if 2 guys choose to attack us what are we supposed to do? The only people we truly “zerg” Down when we catch are those who wear tabards such as AoTP, vae victus, kush, dreadlords, and the plethora of DC zerg guilds.


I’m sure arya has plenty of videos to show you. But as I already stated prior that most 1vX or small scale action is against average at best players no matter the platform.

The GvG stuff takes place in structured environment. Most cases the higher end small scale guilds don’t fight each other in open world because that’s not the objective for each.


Same with 1vX people there is a mutual understanding that each other aren’t the objective. Although 1vX is on its death bed atm.


I assume you play ps4 NA?

I guess the only real combative point I made, which I still stand by, is that the reason you avoid these guys in Open World isn't because of some perceived honor code, even though many of you might think that, but because both parties are subconsciously agreeing to avoid giving the other losses so they can continue to ride high atop their white stallion don't have to continue to ride their white stallion.

Fixed it for you

lol - game, set, match -

YOU'RE SOFT. CAN'T FIGHT CAUSE SCARED MIGHT LOSE AND HAVE TO RUN BACK!

Time is money, baby. That's how the world works.

MalagenR

Tbois I don’t know you but I like you.

Now everyone can appreciate why I like to drop my hand crafted awesomeness negates on these groups while they are farming noobs.

CyrusArya

What I can’t get you to understand is that just because individuals are bad to average in highlights doesn’t mean the fight is easy when you’re significantly outnumbered. Quite the opposite actually, and it gets harder every patch. You also can’t seem to grasp that small scalers are almost always defenders and not aggressors in Cyrodiil. We react to being chased, were not the ones instigating the fights. As such, we don’t choose who to fight or who to avoid. We just respond to it. So really what you’re upset with isn’t the small scalers doing their thing, you’re upset with players who refuse to zerg small scalers down. Par for the course for someone who takes pride in their Xv1 negates.

As I said in my very first post in this thread, competitive fights against equally matched opponents happen all the time- but mostly in an organized dueling and GvG context. The objectives for Cyrodiil and dueling are different. Its not "white-knighting" its just mutual respect. Its not fun to have to run back deep into enemy territory, and there's a mutual understanding of that and respect for common endeavors. Just think about it logically: why do people fight each other with no mercy in BGs, but show clemency to outnumbered parties in Cyrodiil. But even in Cyrodiil, when good players or groups run into each other on even terms we often do fight each other. On a daily basis. Just cus you don't see it, doesn't mean its not happening. Thats absolutely juvenile logic. Here's a nice little open world 2v2 from just last night against skilled players:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOF_vG-kD_4&feature=youtu.be

Good fight and respect to those two for being worthy opponents. Those are players we probably wouldn't win against if they outnumbered us. Myself and other small scalers fight our equals on a daily basis, be it open world or in duels. We just don't zerg each other down. And I personally don't clip it cus I'm not keen on turning respected adversaries into highlight material. See, ultimately that's the issue people have in this thread and with you. So much of what you're saying and claiming is just completely ignorant and based on nothing but your emotional and biased speculation, not actual experience or perspective.

TheRealSniker

The Top players do fight eachother in Duels outside of cyrodiil, although such duels are closed off to the casual folk therefor you never see them.
None of the top players fight eachother in cyrodiil because of Zergs, every smallscaler wants a good outnumbered fight instead of a 10 minutes 1v1 or 2v2 between a few good players.

TBois

So that's 4, 5 if you include me, small scalers that DO fight people of equal skill open world. You gotta open your eyes an get away from the faction stack malagenr.

AyelineESO

I personally never attack any known (in the sense of me knowing that they are always playing solo or small scale) solo'ers or small scalers, not when Im meeting them without them fighting anyone or when they are already fighting (outnumbered), cause i have respect for these people. While most people decided to just zerg around all day, they decided to practice a playstyle that has gotten harder and harder over the past years and that in my opinion deserves nothing but respect.

I can see why people that do not play solo or small scale dont understand that "honor code". They dont know how much of a pain it is to play solo or small scale in the world full of zergs that cyro is these days. But the "pain" those solo and small scalers go through every day creates respect for one another. I would even go as far as saying that it creates some kind of connection between those players.

All that doesent mean they are never fighting each other tho. As others have mentioned already, those people are fighting one another in arranged 1vs1's, fair GvGs etc where skill decides the winner.

Haashhtaag

TheRealSniker wrote: »

The Top players do fight eachother in Duels outside of cyrodiil, although such duels are closed off to the casual folk therefor you never see them.
None of the top players fight eachother in cyrodiil because of Zergs, every smallscaler wants a good outnumbered fight instead of a 10 minutes 1v1 or 2v2 between a few good players.

He thinks the group of 4 small scalers shoudl fight the group of 8 small/medium scalers everytime even though it's just a deaths wish.

Ruckly

Back in the day they used different methods to extend the lifetime of an mmo. Today is different the games are richer. People don't want their nest egg blown away because they accidentally spilled coffee in their lap. On top of that everyone would run a very conservative gank build if for example tel var stones were worth something and you could bank some and choose how much you carry and if you get ganked enemy gets your stones. Either that or people would form ridiculous video game political spheres and send out beat down squads.

Also everything might have changed with GW1. You could hit the gear cap easy but you had to field 8 really good players if you wanted to get near the top of the leader boards.

Haashhtaag

MalagenR wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Lol watching arya lose 1v1 is literally a 6-10 minutes fight most of the time bring closer to 10.

Those are the best fights though, they're such good fights, those are the types of fights small scalers are constantly looking for....why don't I see any in the last video?

And I'm not talking about a pre-arranged duel where Arya has time to change builds / gear to perfectly prepare for said opponent. I'm talking - open world build - mashed potato build - fighting another l33t small scale pvper in open world.

Where are the clips boy!?

Personally as a small scaler we look for outnumbered fights. But if 2 guys choose to attack us what are we supposed to do? The only people we truly “zerg” Down when we catch are those who wear tabards such as AoTP, vae victus, kush, dreadlords, and the plethora of DC zerg guilds.


I’m sure arya has plenty of videos to show you. But as I already stated prior that most 1vX or small scale action is against average at best players no matter the platform.

The GvG stuff takes place in structured environment. Most cases the higher end small scale guilds don’t fight each other in open world because that’s not the objective for each.


Same with 1vX people there is a mutual understanding that each other aren’t the objective. Although 1vX is on its death bed atm.


I assume you play ps4 NA?

Yes I do, I'm sure you know PS4 NA is super toxic, which might be where you are going with this.

So we've basically finally gotten to the point where someone had enough balls to be honest about exactly what I was saying.

You're avoiding other small scale groups in Open World. That's all I was saying. That's why a majority of people came here to flame me. Thank you for being honest about it.

"I’m sure arya has plenty of videos to show you. But as I already stated prior that most 1vX or small scale action is against average at best players no matter the platform.

The GvG stuff takes place in structured environment. Most cases the higher end small scale guilds don’t fight each other in open world because that’s not the objective for each.


Same with 1vX people there is a mutual understanding that each other aren’t the objective. Although 1vX is on its death bed atm. "

This is exactly what I was saying. You're looking to crush potatoes unless you can structure a fair 1v1 or GvG against people of equal or competent playability.

Yet, you hate on the people who zerg surf and help the zerg kill you.

You're purposely avoiding each other in Open World

I guess the only real combative point I made, which I still stand by, is that the reason you avoid these guys in Open World isn't because of some perceived honor code, even though many of you might think that, but because both parties are subconsciously agreeing to avoid giving the other losses so they can continue to ride high atop their white stallion.

If a crew from Lineage2 or EVE Online was playing this game they would completely sterilize the small scale elitists. Because you'd be killed without question, regardless of external factors, for the simple fact of being red, so often and so constantly that you'd eventually quit out of boredom.

YOU AIN'T GOT THE STAMINA TO FIGHT GOOD PLAYERS CONSTANTLY, ONLY WHEN YOU'VE CREATED AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE BOTH PARTIES CAN AGREE THAT EVERYTHING IS 100% FAIR.

To me that is the anti-thesis of defining a "good open world PVP" - which is what I see 95% of you complaining about on the forums and in zone chat every week.

Not you specifically of course, or even Arya.

I came from ps4 myself, was in one of the best guilds that platform ever had as far as small/medium scale....VEXXED was the name.


You have some false expectations that don't exist on either platform. The only times i've seen small scale guilds truly take on small scale guilds is when it came to drama or beef.

MalagenR

CyrusArya wrote: »

What I can’t get you to understand is that just because individuals are bad to average in highlights doesn’t mean the fight is easy when you’re significantly outnumbered. Quite the opposite actually, and it gets harder every patch. You also can’t seem to grasp that small scalers are almost always defenders and not aggressors in Cyrodiil. We react to being chased, were not the ones instigating the fights. As such, we don’t choose who to fight or who to avoid. We just respond to it. So really what you’re upset with isn’t the small scalers doing their thing, you’re upset with players who refuse to zerg small scalers down. Par for the course for someone who takes pride in their Xv1 negates.

As I said in my very first post in this thread, competitive fights against equally matched opponents happen all the time- but mostly in an organized dueling and GvG context. The objectives for Cyrodiil and dueling are different. Its not "white-knighting" its just mutual respect. Its not fun to have to run back deep into enemy territory, and there's a mutual understanding of that and respect for common endeavors. Just think about it logically: why do people fight each other with no mercy in BGs, but show clemency to outnumbered parties in Cyrodiil. But even in Cyrodiil, when good players or groups run into each other on even terms we often do fight each other. On a daily basis. Just cus you don't see it, doesn't mean its not happening. Thats absolutely juvenile logic. Here's a nice little open world 2v2 from just last night against skilled players:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOF_vG-kD_4&feature=youtu.be

Good fight and respect to those two for being worthy opponents. Those are players we probably wouldn't win against if they outnumbered us. Myself and other small scalers fight our equals on a daily basis, be it open world or in duels. We just don't zerg each other down. And I personally don't clip it cus I'm not keen on turning respected adversaries into highlight material. See, ultimately that's the issue people have in this thread and with you. So much of what you're saying and claiming is just completely ignorant and based on nothing but your emotional and biased speculation, not actual experience or perspective.

You're so logical, but you're really mis-understanding me and thinking that my statements are directly at you. The last couple of replies was me mostly trolling.

I still don't get how you define zerg, now a zerg is a 3v2 because if they had an additional player they would have killed you handily?

You keep assuming that everyone that small scales is just like you. Reality check - view the posts above you by guys admitting exactly what I pointed out - you're a special case, as I already mentioned.

I've got no ill will towards you mean, I just noticed some funny behavior. You are white knighting. Listen, if some random player had jumped into the 2v2 how would the players reacted? Would you have let them kill him and then continue, reset your CD's, topped off your HP, and then restarted the 2v2? Yes or No?

MalagenR

TheRealSniker wrote: »

The Top players do fight eachother in Duels outside of cyrodiil, although such duels are closed off to the casual folk therefor you never see them.
None of the top players fight eachother in cyrodiil because of Zergs, every smallscaler wants a good outnumbered fight instead of a 10 minutes 1v1 or 2v2 between a few good players.

lol I like the subtle elitist dig in your reply - it was great -

Thoragaal

Gosh darnit.. if you don't feel like the OP's message applies to you then maybe you're not the type of player he's talking about.
There is a small scale elitist attitude out there. It doesn't apply to everyone (maybe not yourself, for example).
But it doesn't mean it's not there. Stop strawmanning the arguments.
Sometimes I wonder how some of you people even function outside the intarweb life.

TheRealSniker

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Cyrodiil in particular is designed for a huge variety of PVPers.

You've got gankers, bombers, 1vXers, solo players, duelists, organized small groups, PUG raids, organized raids, zerg-surfers, and zergs. You've got people who just want "good fights", people who want AP, people who play for objectives, and people who play with an eye towards the 30 day campaign win. For this reason, I look more at whether someone is "good" at their chosen role in Cyrodiil.



But aside from that, if you want to bring back the days of PVP Guild Domination, ZOS has to fix the lag and persistent performance issues in Cyrodiil.

Right now, when the guilds/organized raids play objectives to dominate the campaigns, the servers simply can't handle large scale combat and respond with lag that's crippling for many players.

I understand where you're coming from with this, but after 15 years I have yet to meet a single MMO that can handle large scale PVP well.

EVE Online had ridiculous 30 second delay for 1000 vs 1000 fleet fights.

Lineage2 had constant game crashes to desktop and 5 minute crippling lag freezes in which you still needed to press your aim assist attack buttons because your computer was still sending packets, so even though you couldn't see yourself playing, you were, and needed to if you want to win. Same with EVE.

Aion we would have 400 v 400 fights and while the lag could be minimized it came at a serious drop in graphical performance, you played at the lowest setting possible and would still freeze / dead or end up with a crash to desktop.

Thus, you either haven't played lots of MMO PVP games, or you haven't yet recognized your ask is incredibly hard to fulfill. If you can't find a way to work around this, large scale PVP and organized PVP at scale is not your cup of tea.

I should add - you can choose to look at it like that - but at the end of the day if you give me any of my squads from Lineage2 (COV Archer Parties) or EVE Online (HAC snipers) we would decimate the field 24/7 with minimal effort. I'm only speaking from experience, so while it may sound cocky there isn't much I can say except that most of the PVP'ers who claim to be good in this game are actually trash.

Also, you have to take what I say with a grain of salt, most of the people I used to game with dropped it long ago, and while I'm complaining about the drop in skill level and lack of incentives driving player skill down, it's almost made the game casual enough so that I can pick it up and still be very competitive even though I barely play. It's a give and take. Mostly what bugs me are the crazy ego's I see teenagers developing in MMO communities these days. Like, when I was 15 yrs old playing Lineage2, it didn't matter to me that I could absolutely annihilate my 20 year old guild leader in a 1v1, I respected the fact that this guy was able to bring 100 people together under one alliance that could hold off 400 people. You just don't see that type of respect anymore for guild leaders, and you don't really see quality guilds anymore or guild leaders, because the incentives have been destroyed.

Perhaps I'm assuming here, but when I'm talking PVP Guild Domination, I'm talking the organized guild raids that dominate Cyrodiil's battlefields.

(I'm not interested in comparing other MMO games, just ESO, since that's the game we're both playing.)

Organized raids run by PVP guilds do dominate Cyrodiil, still. That organization and teamwork you seem to want to see, do pay off handsomely.

At least, when the game works. Lag and performance issues do a number on teamwork, you see? When half the team disconnects or can't use their skills, there's a problem.

Its not merely that the incentives are gone - the incentives are pretty much the same as they always were in ESO. Its that years of bad performance in Cyrodiil have sapped a lot of the PVP guilds, along with burn out for a number of guildmasters and raid leads.

Most of the PVP players and raid leads I know really, really enjoy Cyrodiil gameplay and love PVP - that's a pretty powerful incentive. What they dont enjoy are the things that increasingly get in the way - the bugs, the lag, the performance problems that seem to get worse every update and rarely improve.

So again, if you want Cyrodiil to return to the glory days (such as they were) of the organized PVP guild raids, ZOS has to fix the performance issues. Otherwise, it wont matter what incentives there are because the main incentive - playing and having fun in the game - is gone.

I love how you totally brushed off my point that your ask is incredibly difficult to achieve and no gaming company has ever achieved it, yet some of the PVP games I listed are still going much stronger than the ESO PVP community even though they are older than 5 years.

these games are going stronger cause of the reason that there are no zergs and instead the games are focusing on fair smallscale fights and leaderboards

Thoragaal

MalagenR wrote: »

Tbois I don’t know you but I like you.

Now everyone can appreciate why I like to drop my hand crafted awesomeness negates on these groups while they are farming noobs.

I see where your argument is coming from, I've done plenty of the same things you've mentioned.
Farming complete noobs isn't skills, even if some people pretend it is. That's how the big ol' epeen works for some people who've just realized that they're better than someone else.
And they deserve to die to a negate, or a defile of 67% (in my case) ^^

MalagenR

TheRealSniker wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Cyrodiil in particular is designed for a huge variety of PVPers.

You've got gankers, bombers, 1vXers, solo players, duelists, organized small groups, PUG raids, organized raids, zerg-surfers, and zergs. You've got people who just want "good fights", people who want AP, people who play for objectives, and people who play with an eye towards the 30 day campaign win. For this reason, I look more at whether someone is "good" at their chosen role in Cyrodiil.



But aside from that, if you want to bring back the days of PVP Guild Domination, ZOS has to fix the lag and persistent performance issues in Cyrodiil.

Right now, when the guilds/organized raids play objectives to dominate the campaigns, the servers simply can't handle large scale combat and respond with lag that's crippling for many players.

I understand where you're coming from with this, but after 15 years I have yet to meet a single MMO that can handle large scale PVP well.

EVE Online had ridiculous 30 second delay for 1000 vs 1000 fleet fights.

Lineage2 had constant game crashes to desktop and 5 minute crippling lag freezes in which you still needed to press your aim assist attack buttons because your computer was still sending packets, so even though you couldn't see yourself playing, you were, and needed to if you want to win. Same with EVE.

Aion we would have 400 v 400 fights and while the lag could be minimized it came at a serious drop in graphical performance, you played at the lowest setting possible and would still freeze / dead or end up with a crash to desktop.

Thus, you either haven't played lots of MMO PVP games, or you haven't yet recognized your ask is incredibly hard to fulfill. If you can't find a way to work around this, large scale PVP and organized PVP at scale is not your cup of tea.

I should add - you can choose to look at it like that - but at the end of the day if you give me any of my squads from Lineage2 (COV Archer Parties) or EVE Online (HAC snipers) we would decimate the field 24/7 with minimal effort. I'm only speaking from experience, so while it may sound cocky there isn't much I can say except that most of the PVP'ers who claim to be good in this game are actually trash.

Also, you have to take what I say with a grain of salt, most of the people I used to game with dropped it long ago, and while I'm complaining about the drop in skill level and lack of incentives driving player skill down, it's almost made the game casual enough so that I can pick it up and still be very competitive even though I barely play. It's a give and take. Mostly what bugs me are the crazy ego's I see teenagers developing in MMO communities these days. Like, when I was 15 yrs old playing Lineage2, it didn't matter to me that I could absolutely annihilate my 20 year old guild leader in a 1v1, I respected the fact that this guy was able to bring 100 people together under one alliance that could hold off 400 people. You just don't see that type of respect anymore for guild leaders, and you don't really see quality guilds anymore or guild leaders, because the incentives have been destroyed.

Perhaps I'm assuming here, but when I'm talking PVP Guild Domination, I'm talking the organized guild raids that dominate Cyrodiil's battlefields.

(I'm not interested in comparing other MMO games, just ESO, since that's the game we're both playing.)

Organized raids run by PVP guilds do dominate Cyrodiil, still. That organization and teamwork you seem to want to see, do pay off handsomely.

At least, when the game works. Lag and performance issues do a number on teamwork, you see? When half the team disconnects or can't use their skills, there's a problem.

Its not merely that the incentives are gone - the incentives are pretty much the same as they always were in ESO. Its that years of bad performance in Cyrodiil have sapped a lot of the PVP guilds, along with burn out for a number of guildmasters and raid leads.

Most of the PVP players and raid leads I know really, really enjoy Cyrodiil gameplay and love PVP - that's a pretty powerful incentive. What they dont enjoy are the things that increasingly get in the way - the bugs, the lag, the performance problems that seem to get worse every update and rarely improve.

So again, if you want Cyrodiil to return to the glory days (such as they were) of the organized PVP guild raids, ZOS has to fix the performance issues. Otherwise, it wont matter what incentives there are because the main incentive - playing and having fun in the game - is gone.

I love how you totally brushed off my point that your ask is incredibly difficult to achieve and no gaming company has ever achieved it, yet some of the PVP games I listed are still going much stronger than the ESO PVP community even though they are older than 5 years.

these games are going stronger cause of the reason that there are no zergs and instead the games are focusing on fair smallscale fights and leaderboards

EVE Online? Lineage2 private servers? I think we are talking about diff games. The games with real stakes always have better staying power, especially those whose central focus is designed around PVP.

Some EVE Online fleet battles have resulted in losses of over $100,000 USD in virtual assets when converted.

I

MalagenR

TBois wrote: »

So that's 4, 5 if you include me, small scalers that DO fight people of equal skill open world. You gotta open your eyes an get away from the faction stack malagenr.

I'm honestly not some faction hero, except in the sense that I want my faction to pull ahead so I have easier access across the maps and *** to sell at the trader.

I just think it's funny that potato farmers think they are PVP gods but don't have the stamina to even fight each other in a true open world sense.

MalagenR

Ruckly wrote: »

Back in the day they used different methods to extend the lifetime of an mmo. Today is different the games are richer. People don't want their nest egg blown away because they accidentally spilled coffee in their lap. On top of that everyone would run a very conservative gank build if for example tel var stones were worth something and you could bank some and choose how much you carry and if you get ganked enemy gets your stones. Either that or people would form ridiculous video game political spheres and send out beat down squads.

Also everything might have changed with GW1. You could hit the gear cap easy but you had to field 8 really good players if you wanted to get near the top of the leader boards.

You mean forming guilds that go around exterminating players for being in their farming territories? I love that idea. Where can I find that game?

TBois

MalagenR wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

So that's 4, 5 if you include me, small scalers that DO fight people of equal skill open world. You gotta open your eyes an get away from the faction stack malagenr.

I'm honestly not some faction hero, except in the sense that I want my faction to pull ahead so I have easier access across the maps and *** to sell at the trader.

I just think it's funny that potato farmers think they are PVP gods but don't have the stamina to even fight each other in a true open world sense.

I'm sure all the farmers want to purport they are gods. i mean the emps do it so why can't the farmers? don't the zergs think they are gods too?

I mean at the end of the day you are talking about a small subset of small scalers that talk *** to a small subset of the player base. There are the majority of good and bad players who play to play and don't put on airs.

MalagenR

I feel like most of the self proclaimed small scalers think like this, the small subset are those of you who decided to say,

“Malagen that’s not what we do I swear it!”

Otherwise why would you go so far as to say, “I’m a small scaler but this guy over here, he’s a zerger”

Here it comes -

Back in my day! No such classification was necessary. You were either good or bad, period. The fact that Cyrus tries so hard to distinguish himself makes me think that while he / she may want everyone to believe they are a super sweet honorable person that doesn’t need to put on airs is some straight ***.

Which gets back to my point, fake ass lyin asses. Which is fine, it’s all good, I just find it to be funny.

TBois

MalagenR wrote: »

I feel like most of the self proclaimed small scalers think like this, the small subset are those of you who decided to say,

“Malagen that’s not what we do I swear it!”

Otherwise why would you go so far as to say, “I’m a small scaler but this guy over here, he’s a zerger”

Here it comes -

Back in my day! No such classification was necessary. You were either good or bad, period. The fact that Cyrus tries so hard to distinguish himself makes me think that while he / she may want everyone to believe they are a super sweet honorable person that doesn’t need to put on airs is some straight ***.

Which gets back to my point, fake ass lyin asses. Which is fine, it’s all good, I just find it to be funny.

You need to somehow use thought bubbles for your quotes. Quotation marks make it seem like you aren't a mind reader.

Joy_Division

This sounds like a "back in my day, we had to..." post.

For every person that I usually avoid fighting and they do likewise - which by the way is mostly motivated by not waiting to partake in Xv1ing, not because we're afraid of losing - there are at least three who would like nothing better to do than fanatically chase you across the map. Play long enough and you'll *** off a lot more people than you'll make friends. And for every multi-faction friend you make, you've got 4 or 5 die-hard loyalists who'll still drop a meteor of you in a 10v1 because they take thing personally and think you're a traitor.

I guess you're having a slow weekend and felt being provocative.

MalagenR

Joy_Division wrote: »

This sounds like a "back in my day, we had to..." post.

For every person that I usually avoid fighting and they do likewise - which by the way is mostly motivated by not waiting to partake in Xv1ing, not because we're afraid of losing - there are at least three who would like nothing better to do than fanatically chase you across the map. Play long enough and you'll *** off a lot more people than you'll make friends. And for every multi-faction friend you make, you've got 4 or 5 die-hard loyalists who'll still drop a meteor of you in a 10v1 because they take thing personally and think you're a traitor.

I guess you're having a slow weekend and felt being provocative.

Haha you and Tbo get it. You’ve made the best argument thus far. Pure loneliness.

But look I’ll tell you what’s revealing, Aryus said he didn’t include that clip in his videos cause he doesn’t want to embarrass them. Are their egos so fragile he can’t share an awesome video with the community.

I think he’s wrong, people do want to see that. Plus it has much more worth watching in it.

TheRealSniker

MalagenR wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Cyrodiil in particular is designed for a huge variety of PVPers.

You've got gankers, bombers, 1vXers, solo players, duelists, organized small groups, PUG raids, organized raids, zerg-surfers, and zergs. You've got people who just want "good fights", people who want AP, people who play for objectives, and people who play with an eye towards the 30 day campaign win. For this reason, I look more at whether someone is "good" at their chosen role in Cyrodiil.



But aside from that, if you want to bring back the days of PVP Guild Domination, ZOS has to fix the lag and persistent performance issues in Cyrodiil.

Right now, when the guilds/organized raids play objectives to dominate the campaigns, the servers simply can't handle large scale combat and respond with lag that's crippling for many players.

I understand where you're coming from with this, but after 15 years I have yet to meet a single MMO that can handle large scale PVP well.

EVE Online had ridiculous 30 second delay for 1000 vs 1000 fleet fights.

Lineage2 had constant game crashes to desktop and 5 minute crippling lag freezes in which you still needed to press your aim assist attack buttons because your computer was still sending packets, so even though you couldn't see yourself playing, you were, and needed to if you want to win. Same with EVE.

Aion we would have 400 v 400 fights and while the lag could be minimized it came at a serious drop in graphical performance, you played at the lowest setting possible and would still freeze / dead or end up with a crash to desktop.

Thus, you either haven't played lots of MMO PVP games, or you haven't yet recognized your ask is incredibly hard to fulfill. If you can't find a way to work around this, large scale PVP and organized PVP at scale is not your cup of tea.

I should add - you can choose to look at it like that - but at the end of the day if you give me any of my squads from Lineage2 (COV Archer Parties) or EVE Online (HAC snipers) we would decimate the field 24/7 with minimal effort. I'm only speaking from experience, so while it may sound cocky there isn't much I can say except that most of the PVP'ers who claim to be good in this game are actually trash.

Also, you have to take what I say with a grain of salt, most of the people I used to game with dropped it long ago, and while I'm complaining about the drop in skill level and lack of incentives driving player skill down, it's almost made the game casual enough so that I can pick it up and still be very competitive even though I barely play. It's a give and take. Mostly what bugs me are the crazy ego's I see teenagers developing in MMO communities these days. Like, when I was 15 yrs old playing Lineage2, it didn't matter to me that I could absolutely annihilate my 20 year old guild leader in a 1v1, I respected the fact that this guy was able to bring 100 people together under one alliance that could hold off 400 people. You just don't see that type of respect anymore for guild leaders, and you don't really see quality guilds anymore or guild leaders, because the incentives have been destroyed.

Perhaps I'm assuming here, but when I'm talking PVP Guild Domination, I'm talking the organized guild raids that dominate Cyrodiil's battlefields.

(I'm not interested in comparing other MMO games, just ESO, since that's the game we're both playing.)

Organized raids run by PVP guilds do dominate Cyrodiil, still. That organization and teamwork you seem to want to see, do pay off handsomely.

At least, when the game works. Lag and performance issues do a number on teamwork, you see? When half the team disconnects or can't use their skills, there's a problem.

Its not merely that the incentives are gone - the incentives are pretty much the same as they always were in ESO. Its that years of bad performance in Cyrodiil have sapped a lot of the PVP guilds, along with burn out for a number of guildmasters and raid leads.

Most of the PVP players and raid leads I know really, really enjoy Cyrodiil gameplay and love PVP - that's a pretty powerful incentive. What they dont enjoy are the things that increasingly get in the way - the bugs, the lag, the performance problems that seem to get worse every update and rarely improve.

So again, if you want Cyrodiil to return to the glory days (such as they were) of the organized PVP guild raids, ZOS has to fix the performance issues. Otherwise, it wont matter what incentives there are because the main incentive - playing and having fun in the game - is gone.

I love how you totally brushed off my point that your ask is incredibly difficult to achieve and no gaming company has ever achieved it, yet some of the PVP games I listed are still going much stronger than the ESO PVP community even though they are older than 5 years.

these games are going stronger cause of the reason that there are no zergs and instead the games are focusing on fair smallscale fights and leaderboards

EVE Online? Lineage2 private servers? I think we are talking about diff games. The games with real stakes always have better staying power, especially those whose central focus is designed around PVP.

Some EVE Online fleet battles have resulted in losses of over $100,000 USD in virtual assets when converted.

I

You were talking about Aion before, I played Aion for about 3-4 years after its release, I was playing Israphel then transitioned to Siel, played with <Hello Kitty Squad>, the games PvP was great because its smallscale mechanics were great and you could find smallscale pvp basically everywhere
None of the top players went to Sieges

Ruckly

MalagenR wrote: »

Ruckly wrote: »

Back in the day they used different methods to extend the lifetime of an mmo. Today is different the games are richer. People don't want their nest egg blown away because they accidentally spilled coffee in their lap. On top of that everyone would run a very conservative gank build if for example tel var stones were worth something and you could bank some and choose how much you carry and if you get ganked enemy gets your stones. Either that or people would form ridiculous video game political spheres and send out beat down squads.

Also everything might have changed with GW1. You could hit the gear cap easy but you had to field 8 really good players if you wanted to get near the top of the leader boards.

You mean forming guilds that go around exterminating players for being in their farming territories? I love that idea. Where can I find that game?

Day to day life in a federal penitentiary? Or EvE. Lots of survival FPS like that. I can't think of any fantasy MMOs off the top of my head. And I assume you mean passive and not active farming.

TBois

MalagenR wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

This sounds like a "back in my day, we had to..." post.

For every person that I usually avoid fighting and they do likewise - which by the way is mostly motivated by not waiting to partake in Xv1ing, not because we're afraid of losing - there are at least three who would like nothing better to do than fanatically chase you across the map. Play long enough and you'll *** off a lot more people than you'll make friends. And for every multi-faction friend you make, you've got 4 or 5 die-hard loyalists who'll still drop a meteor of you in a 10v1 because they take thing personally and think you're a traitor.

I guess you're having a slow weekend and felt being provocative.

Haha you and Tbo get it. You’ve made the best argument thus far. Pure loneliness.

But look I’ll tell you what’s revealing, Aryus said he didn’t include that clip in his videos cause he doesn’t want to embarrass them. Are their egos so fragile he can’t share an awesome video with the community.

I think he’s wrong, people do want to see that. Plus it has much more worth watching in it.

Hey we agree! I would like to see more videos like that tbh. It was a good fight with multiple close calls on both sides.

Hochstapler

MalagenR wrote: »

hahahah what they really do is kill the zerg surfer that is on their death recap very often because they are pissed and aren't yet friends with him. once they become friends then they'll start ignoring him.

which further supports the point I made - what they are trying to do is ween off the skillful players from interfering with their potato farming and accept them into their "white knight" club so they can avoid dying to them more often - i.e. ducking hard fights so they can farm potatoes

i.e. - they are guilty for the behavior they loathe so much very often

Yeah I agree with this 100%.

There are so many places where you can hang out and chat with your dueling buddies and 'respect' them all you want lol but when I see this behavior in Cyrodill is pissing me off to no end.
I play on PC EU and I do see the same behavior you are talking about, not very often but it happens.

Small groups of different factions just chilling around eachother in Cyro, bunny hopping around like tards , chating and not fighting eachother or helping their own faction.
Cyro isn't a place for that shiat because while they are thinking they are being considerate to their 'friends' , they are being selfish and inconsiderate to everyone else.
Nothing breaks my immersion and my RPG feel more then those whiteknighting clowns.
It is a RPG after all, you are entering a massive faction based war zone, play your part or gtfo you monkies.

As for the streamers and video making dudes, well, what do you expect.
They are making money from it so of course they gonna avoid any competition that might outplay them.
That doesn't look good on video heh, and it wont win them followers and YT clicks.

I just wish there were more Old-school gamers in Cyrodiil, you know, guys that focus on the task at hand and get the job done.
In Cyrodiil's case that means waging an all out war against other factions.
"Red is Dead' and all that jazz.

LEAVE REAL-LIFE POLITICS AND DRAMA AT THE DOOR BEFORE YOU ENTER CYRODIIL AND PLAY THE GOD DAMN GAME YOU SILLY CLOWNS!

Caps were a must there, imo.

Drdeath20

Good groups actually do fight each other. Sometimes directly (group vs group) and other times they indirectly fight each other (flag each others back keeps).

I more have a problem with the guy who spends all their time in cyrodil going to the same nearly vacant spot, in open world, just bcz its a easy spot to escape a failed gank.

Derra

Hochstapler wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

hahahah what they really do is kill the zerg surfer that is on their death recap very often because they are pissed and aren't yet friends with him. once they become friends then they'll start ignoring him.

which further supports the point I made - what they are trying to do is ween off the skillful players from interfering with their potato farming and accept them into their "white knight" club so they can avoid dying to them more often - i.e. ducking hard fights so they can farm potatoes

i.e. - they are guilty for the behavior they loathe so much very often

Yeah I agree with this 100%.

There are so many places where you can hang out and chat with your dueling buddies and 'respect' them all you want lol but when I see this behavior in Cyrodill is pissing me off to no end.
I play on PC EU and I do see the same behavior you are talking about, not very often but it happens.

Small groups of different factions just chilling around eachother in Cyro, bunny hopping around like tards , chating and not fighting eachother or helping their own faction.
Cyro isn't a place for that shiat because while they are thinking they are being considerate to their 'friends' , they are being selfish and inconsiderate to everyone else.
Nothing breaks my immersion and my RPG feel more then those whiteknighting clowns.
It is a RPG after all, you are entering a massive faction based war zone, play your part or gtfo you monkies.

As for the streamers and video making dudes, well, what do you expect.
They are making money from it so of course they gonna avoid any competition that might outplay them.
That doesn't look good on video heh, and it wont win them followers and YT clicks.

I just wish there were more Old-school gamers in Cyrodiil, you know, guys that focus on the task at hand and get the job done.
In Cyrodiil's case that means waging an all out war against other factions.
"Red is Dead' and all that jazz.

LEAVE REAL-LIFE POLITICS AND DRAMA AT THE DOOR BEFORE YOU ENTER CYRODIIL AND PLAY THE GOD DAMN GAME YOU SILLY CLOWNS!

Caps were a must there, imo.

You´re breaking my immersion by claiming my RP background isn´t how the game is meant to be played. Where´s the report button.