Continued Trend of Over Nerfing....

godchucknzilla

We are continuously seeing the developers make drastic changes to items, skills, and systems in ESO. The developers are also making change on top of change and not considering past changes. Many sets, skills, and items are being weakened to the point of uselessness. The more things that become weak the less build diversity there is. The changes in the meta are also too extreme wasting a lot of people's time.

1. Cost poison change, 10 percent is too weak, why would you use this over double dot poison?
2. Mark change, 5 seconds from 30 seconds is a huge change. Currently stealth is very strong in Cyrodiil.

Please add more things to this list.

Juhasow

I would be happy if too harsh nerfs would be the only issue that game have.

Doctordarkspawn

As far as I know, it all lies at Wrobels feet.

He's the one who oversee's the changes, and he's certainly the one who decides what feedback is actually acted on.

Lylith

godchucknzilla wrote: »

We are continuously seeing the developers make drastic changes to items, skills, and systems in ESO. The developers are also making change on top of change and not considering past changes. Many sets, skills, and items are being weakened to the point of uselessness. The more things that become weak the less build diversity there is. The changes in the meta are also too extreme wasting a lot of people's time.

1. Cost poison change, 10 percent is too weak, why would you use this over double dot poison?
2. Mark change, 5 seconds from 30 seconds is a huge change. Currently stealth is very strong in Cyrodiil.

Please add more things to this list.

and it continues to get stronger, given the previous adjustments and those on the horizon.

SHADOW2KK

The Death Star was better at close air support than ZoS with nerfs I feel

BalticBlues

The problem is that ESO devs do not like FINE-TUNING. FINE-TUNING means that you REACH BALANCE by slowly getting to the sweet spot by changing MINOR aspects in MODERATE ways. In contrast, ESO devs prefer using a HAMMER to beat on several things at the same time. This way, often BALANCE IS GETTING WORSE NOT BETTER.

The way of balance:


The way of ESO:

JPcrazysquirrel3

BalticBlues wrote: »

The problem is that ESO devs do not like FINE-TUNING. FINE-TUNING means that you REACH BALANCE by slowly getting to the sweet spot by changing MINOR aspects in MODERATE ways. In contrast, ESO devs prefer using a HAMMER to beat on several things at the same time. This way, often BALANCE IS GETTING WORSE NOT BETTER.

The way of balance:


The way of ESO:

I wish I could hit both "Agree" and "Awesome"!

That is a perfectly wonderful analogy of precision fixing vs. beating with hammer!

Undefwun

godchucknzilla wrote: »

1. Cost poison change, 10 percent is too weak, why would you use this over double dot poison?

Why would you use it in the first place? One of the lowest possible things you could use in PvP (1v1 and Xv1).
Should have just removed it.

Dr.NRG

godchucknzilla wrote: »

We are continuously seeing the developers make drastic changes to items, skills, and systems in ESO. The developers are also making change on top of change and not considering past changes. Many sets, skills, and items are being weakened to the point of uselessness. The more things that become weak the less build diversity there is. The changes in the meta are also too extreme wasting a lot of people's time.

1. Cost poison change, 10 percent is too weak, why would you use this over double dot poison?
2. Mark change, 5 seconds from 30 seconds is a huge change. Currently stealth is very strong in Cyrodiil.

Please add more things to this list.

10% cost positions are too weak? Are you insane? Sorry but I get the strong feeling that you run with zergs a lot and need cheese such as cost poisons inorder to get a kill. 30% was still so strong that a low cp could beat an decent max co player by running tanky set ups doing nothing but light attacking and spamming skill untill s/he ran out of resources. These poisons have been the most unfair and imbalanced items ever added to the game and now that they are at a more decent rate you complain lol...
Also double dot poisons will not be stronger and the other way around. The 2 poisons are so very different that you cant compare em. One is to max dmg the other to mam resources and to debuff. Cost poisons are primarily defensive and double dots offensive.
Now that these poisons are at a more fair level (still very cheese/cancerous and very strong) the only other mojor cheese set ups that need fixing is major defile sets and to high uptimes of major vit (maybe do something about endless block builds in bgs too but for now there are more important fixes needed).
Calling for reversing this change sounds like you might need help building your toons or to learn how to pvp. Just ask man, many people in this game a very nice and surely will help you! Ill hlep ya too if you want.


Peace!

JinMori

The cost increase poisons were absolute cancer, thank god they are only 10 % now.

I think nerfs should be done in a way that it increases the "fun" part of the game, pretty much nobody liked having their resource costing 30% or 60 % (some time ago) more, and suddenly your resource bar was gone, and 10 people jumped on you, because xv1 is pretty damn easy.

Remember aoe caps? Where if you were a small group, you were not only disadvantaged if you were against a zerg because of numbers, but also because the aoe caps, directly influenced how much damage you could dish out while it had no effect whatsoever on the zerg? This is the same.

Think kind of gameplay where people can 10 people can just jump on 1 person, and that 1 person can do absolutely nothing, because not only he's outnumbered, but his resources are also drained much faster, needs to be destroyed with the wrath of a thousand suns

This is the difference, between nerfs, like the sustain nerf that made classes feel slower, while the majority preferred the fast phased combat, or like the recent nerfs to shields which were way overkill, and they slow down the combat even more, and completely ruin the point of a fast reactive defense that lasts a short amount of time, this is what i would call bad nerfs.

The nerf to those poisons was not a bad nerf.

leepalmer95

godchucknzilla wrote: »

We are continuously seeing the developers make drastic changes to items, skills, and systems in ESO. The developers are also making change on top of change and not considering past changes. Many sets, skills, and items are being weakened to the point of uselessness. The more things that become weak the less build diversity there is. The changes in the meta are also too extreme wasting a lot of people's time.

1. Cost poison change, 10 percent is too weak, why would you use this over double dot poison?
2. Mark change, 5 seconds from 30 seconds is a huge change. Currently stealth is very strong in Cyrodiil.

Please add more things to this list.

Both of those changes are good changes...

Cost poisons were far too strong for a item that cost your nothing in regards to sustain yourself yet severely nerfs other peoples.

Mark was far too strong of a counter to cloak, it' was a 60m 30s skill that basically completely stopped cloaks effects. Thats was far too much of a hard counter.

Now it's a soft counter, 5s is more than enough to do something to the nb, reveal him or others, keep track, get close enough to snare or into aoe range so you can reveal + do dmg. Or just you know recast it.

Fischblut

Please add more things to this list.

Unfortunately the list would be too long - too many nerfs each update I started playing in January 2016 and started actually caring about game in May 2016 - that's when the nerfs started to bother me... For me, the first horrible change was change to Pack Leader werewolf morph with Dark Brotherhood update. Even nowadays, when I do heavy attack on my Berserkers, I'm briefly looking at the timer and feel sadness when I see that it doesn't increase for 2 seconds after each heavy attack It used to be so great... Oh, and since this update we can't even devour critters, making overworld traveling in werewolf form even harder - and the game less fun.

I agree, we get so many weird nerfs, that each update is full of scary surprises - try to guess what they decide to destroy next... It's like they have two people - one makes horrible changes, and other makes nice changes just enough so all players don't stop playing the game.
They even took away such little fun thing like +15% mounted speed from Cyrodiil Ward set - nobody ever asked about nerf to it and they didn't even care to explain their horrible decision (...as if their explanations would make this change less horrible)

I can only list few things which they haven't destroyed yet and which make the game still worth playing for me, but then they might just do that

Now it's a soft counter, 5s is more than enough to do something to the nb, reveal him or others, keep track, get close enough to snare or into aoe range so you can reveal + do dmg. Or just you know recast it.

Not nearly enough if you're alone and the nb dodges and runs away fast like a coward Yesterday I was in BG match where enemy team had two stealthy snipers. I marked one of them and went to kill - while he was dodging and trying to run away, his 3 allies were focusing me. I'm brave YOLO stamnb and I proudly don't use cloak in PvP - but I still need mana to cast Fear to shake of those 2 annoying enemies, dodge snipes from third enemy who is far away, and manage to chase the 4th marked enemy and actually hit him. I can't afford to recast Mark every 5 seconds at all. Only thanks to long duration of Mark and the fact that I didn't have to recast it and didn't lose the marked enemy - I could kill him just the moment before his 3 allies killed me. It's just one example of many similar encounters, and such things are really satisfying... and soon new update will take them away

Turelus

I've always been a fan of the idea that ZOS does one massive balance pass a year (expansions) and then spend the next three updates (DLC's) smoothing those issues out.
So in theory we get one big shake up and change, then three passes at making it right where it needs to be.

I'd also support far less new sets entering the game, as we're getting so many now and it's a tad silly.

moosegod

This is one of the only games I've played where I'm scared to go in and read the patch notes because everytime they make one big change that no one wanted or they add something no one needs. Yes there's usually a gem amongst the rubble where they make some changes to sets or QoL that should of been done months ago or before the set even reached live (i.e. sloads, and now possibly soldier of anguish). Though most of the time it's just nerfs with some other slight changes that everyone now needs to adapt to.

Cost poison, everyone has already said why they were an issue (though useful in CP environment where some specs sustain forever, it's too strong in noCP but that's a whole other balance issue).

Shield change, crit and pen is a good change, cast time is a bad change.

Soldier of anguish, did we learn anything from sloads? 5500 healing negated every 4 sec? A 25% chance will have a good uptime so that's essentially ~1400dps DoT, wtf zos? Thanks for adding more cancer. Healing negated was already possible with borrowed time but at least you could see that one coming and it has a cast time. Now recovering from a gank might be impossible as it's a damage set which just stops a player from using a simple defensive game mechanic. This is an ok idea to combat healers but it also becomes very strong against a solo player who may only have vigor and rally to heal which will now be negated thanks to anguish.

eliisra

The core problem is the fact that they use a sledgehammer to nerf. They use a rocket engine to buff.

They only do it twice a year(or less) and than they do almost nothing in-between in terms of balance. Patch notes between updates are mainly fixes and improvements.

If you've been hit by the sledgehammer you have to either endure 6-12 months of feeling useless or completely change your build, gear and playstyle. Worse case, you have to change class or race.

ESO is a fairly casual game, so a big part of the population aren't overly keen on making drastic changes to their main chars. That's why people are so damn scared of the patch notes. They know over-nerfs, broken sets or skills wont be changed anytime soon.

But maybe it's been getting a little better recently? Feels like developers have started to listen to class reps&feedback at least selectively.

craigr02

Ive been on abreak from the game since August. I was going to come back for murkmire, but now ive decided to extend my break. Not really liking how things have been going for Eso. Ill check back in a year when the new chapter comes out. See if i want to play again.
This pts cycle has left a sour taste in my mouth and i was already salty before because of how jewelery crafting turned out after pre ordering the game..

Jsmalls

Let cost Poisons die. They were implemented into the game at a time when sustain was infinite, we are no longer playing that same game.

godchucknzilla

3. Snares and defiles at 4 seconds seem too short. Why not 5 seconds?
4. Deep Fissure stun loss
5. Arctic Blast getting ruined for health warden builds on PTS
6. The activate on Bound Armaments is useless
7. Overload bar completely removed on PTS
8. Old proc sets were gutted but new proc sets are overpowered. Tremor/Selene vs Zaan and Viper vs Caluurion
9. Subterranean Assault's major fracture was reduced to 5 seconds, surprise attack gives major fracture for 15 seconds.

DivineFirstYOLO

didn't you read the patch notes? "those changes are going to be a nerf if you are zerg surfing, but they will be a buff for solo and small scale players"