New Murkmire Arena Weapons.

code65536

pteam wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

If these have a 1pc bonus then they gotta give the bonus back to the other weapons. That's the best news imo.

lol they don’t have to do that, and probably won’t. The new arena needs to have weapons that are really good or people won’t even run it

Whether a weapon is good or not depends on what its special effect is. If that effect is compelling, we'll use it regardless of the 1p bonus. If it's not compelling, that 1p bonus won't change anyone's mind...

SilverIce58

code65536 wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

We already have group dungeons, trials etc. which is intended for groups.
I believe arena type of content should have difficulty scaling option for 1-3 players(if not 4 players are in group).
All group arena content should allow the option to solo it.
Leaderboard scoring could have different options, solo, 2 players, 3 players and full group.
Does it require more work on behalf of the development team ? definitely, but it will be worth it.

ROTFL.

Interesting mechanics need to have assumptions about what roles are present, how many people there are, etc. You can have old-style content where there were no mechanics--just do damage while avoiding and healing damage, and yay, you're done. But that's stupid. That's not interesting. Good and interesting mechanics involve teamwork and will stress the group composition.

It's the same reason I laughed at people who thought that this would be anything other than 4-person.

No, they shouldn't make the content so that it can be soloed. Why not? Because if they do, then it means that the design of the arena and mechanics would be compromised and worthless.

It's a MMO. If you can't get people to play with you, then maybe this is not the game for you?

I think that it'd be fine if it was able to be beaten with a group of 2 or 3 if you dont have or want to do it with 4, but no way solo. Sure you can do it solo, and im sure some people will, but it's more interesting and fun with more people.

code65536

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Stupid that it's a 4man. We already have dsa. A 2man arena would have been awesome.

I know eso doesn't have 2 man content right now, but this could have opened the door for more to come.

No, it's not stupid. 4-man was the only way to go.

Think about it from a design standpoint. Okay, it's 2-man, great. Um, what's the group composition? 2x DD? Tank + DD? Healer + DD? If it's doable by 2x DD, then why would anyone want to bring a tank or a healer? You're also extremely limited in what kinds of mechanics that you can do if the content is designed to be done tankless.

If you add things that must be tanked, then what? Are you going to make content that makes all the healers felt left out? vMA v2 for the support roles. Are there even enough tanks to support a 1-to-1 tank-to-DD ratio?

You simply cannot design challenging and compelling mechanics and fights with just two people. You need 4. It had to be 4. The people calling for 2 never thought it through rationally.

pdebie64b16_ESO

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Wonder If they will introduce group finder for arenas... it would be great...

Add a Trial group finder and iam even more exited.

leepalmer95

Oh cool, magplar healbots are getting more heal buffs.

It's not like they're currently broken af and can easily tank 4 good players while throwing heals everywhere.

Haquor

LukosCreyden wrote: »

A weapon that buffs uppercut? The Official Most Boring Skill in the Game?

awww...

Now uppercut is aoe. Zerg busting even. Would be sweet if dizzying swing knocked back multiple people lol.

SilverIce58

I can't wait to see what they look like tbh.

pieratsos

code65536 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Stupid that it's a 4man. We already have dsa. A 2man arena would have been awesome.

I know eso doesn't have 2 man content right now, but this could have opened the door for more to come.

No, it's not stupid. 4-man was the only way to go.

Think about it from a design standpoint. Okay, it's 2-man, great. Um, what's the group composition? 2x DD? Tank + DD? Healer + DD? If it's doable by 2x DD, then why would anyone want to bring a tank or a healer? You're also extremely limited in what kinds of mechanics that you can do if the content is designed to be done tankless.

If you add things that must be tanked, then what? Are you going to make content that makes all the healers felt left out? vMA v2 for the support roles. Are there even enough tanks to support a 1-to-1 tank-to-DD ratio?

You simply cannot design challenging and compelling mechanics and fights with just two people. You need 4. It had to be 4. The people calling for 2 never thought it through rationally.

Thats probably because you believe that the only possible ways of making a build is a strict healer, strict dd or strict tank. You can absolutely design challenging and compelling mechanics for two people. If anything even more so. Mechanics could most certainly require something more from the players. For example having a more tanky dd with snb backbar to take certain hits. Aka, you think a bit outside of the box and create actually compelling mechanics. Challenging and compelling mechanics is very subective when your numbers are growing simply because it doesnt always depend on you.

You mention vMA v2. Well vDSA v2 doesnt sound better either. At least vMA after all these years and the huge power creep still seems very hard to do for probably the majority of the players, and still gives a big sense of accomplishment for people who are doing it for the first time. No one to carry you and you have to do the mechanics urself. What exactly is more compelling or challenging in vDSA?

Its also kinda ironic to talk about problems with neglected healers/tanks and group composition in 2 man content when this problem is 100 times bigger in 4 man content. I mean, what exactly is the group compsition in vDSA?

karekiz

pieratsos wrote: »

What exactly is more compelling or challenging in vDSA?

I think the reason this is DSA 2.0 is because lets face it.

DSA is easier than VMA, and its definitely easier than most 4 man DLC dungeons.

Gimmie DSA final boss over most Hard Mode DLC encounters.

Tommy_The_Gun

code65536 wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

We already have group dungeons, trials etc. which is intended for groups.
I believe arena type of content should have difficulty scaling option for 1-3 players(if not 4 players are in group).
All group arena content should allow the option to solo it.
Leaderboard scoring could have different options, solo, 2 players, 3 players and full group.
Does it require more work on behalf of the development team ? definitely, but it will be worth it.

ROTFL.

Interesting mechanics need to have assumptions about what roles are present, how many people there are, etc. You can have old-style content where there were no mechanics--just do damage while avoiding and healing damage, and yay, you're done. But that's stupid. That's not interesting. Good and interesting mechanics involve teamwork and will stress the group composition.

It's the same reason I laughed at people who thought that this would be anything other than 4-person.

No, they shouldn't make the content so that it can be soloed. Why not? Because if they do, then it means that the design of the arena and mechanics would be compromised and worthless.

It's a MMO. If you can't get people to play with you, then maybe this is not the game for you?

Well... the point is that a lot of players (I would even assume majority) are solo players. Those players relay on group finder to complete a group content. And A LOT of group content in ESO is for some bizarre reason unsupported by group finder tool.
This means that a lot of content is locked either behind being forced to join a guild or just spam "LFG" on zone chat & hoping for the best.

I also noticed that every time there is a topic about group finder there are always some people who are very negative towards this idea. Why ? If you have a guild then you can just don't use group finder... Unless you want to prevent other people to have fun too as if they were not worthy of even have a chance to do a trial / arena & learn its mechanics.

Dymence

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

We already have group dungeons, trials etc. which is intended for groups.
I believe arena type of content should have difficulty scaling option for 1-3 players(if not 4 players are in group).
All group arena content should allow the option to solo it.
Leaderboard scoring could have different options, solo, 2 players, 3 players and full group.
Does it require more work on behalf of the development team ? definitely, but it will be worth it.

ROTFL.

Interesting mechanics need to have assumptions about what roles are present, how many people there are, etc. You can have old-style content where there were no mechanics--just do damage while avoiding and healing damage, and yay, you're done. But that's stupid. That's not interesting. Good and interesting mechanics involve teamwork and will stress the group composition.

It's the same reason I laughed at people who thought that this would be anything other than 4-person.

No, they shouldn't make the content so that it can be soloed. Why not? Because if they do, then it means that the design of the arena and mechanics would be compromised and worthless.

It's a MMO. If you can't get people to play with you, then maybe this is not the game for you?

Well... the point is that a lot of players (I would even assume majority) are solo players. Those players relay on group finder to complete a group content. And A LOT of group content in ESO is for some bizarre reason unsupported by group finder tool.
This means that a lot of content is locked either behind being forced to join a guild or just spam "LFG" on zone chat & hoping for the best.

I also noticed that every time there is a topic about group finder there are always some people who are very negative towards this idea. Why ? If you have a guild then you can just don't use group finder... Unless you want to prevent other people to have fun too as if they were not worthy of even have a chance to do a trial / arena & learn its mechanics.

Well... the thing is, the majority of players in ESO are simply horrendously bad. It's probably in the solo players best interest that these things don't have group finder options. It's just going to end in a bad time.

ruikkarikun

You all seems don't understand, how you will farm those weapons with current drop rate system? If they not change anything

1. Will be stupid and trolling to make new weapons OP against vMSA and vDSA
2. You will farm it for monthes, if not more (just don't tell me you got your vMA for a few runs I know there are lucky ones, but we apeak about majority players)

Ragnarock41

Ragebull wrote: »

Who cares game is broken

This is exactly what I said to myself.

They didn't even properly balanced all the stuff that came with summerset yet so Im definitely not looking forward to more cheese.(and that 2h is just.... Dead on arrival)

Ragnarock41

LukosCreyden wrote: »

A weapon that buffs uppercut? The Official Most Boring Skill in the Game?

awww...

That most boring skill takes 20x more effort to use than most playstyles in this game due to unreliability.

And besides that, uppercut and momentum are the only two abilities left without an altering weapon made for them, and Im pretty sure uppercut needs a lot more attention than momentum does.

mr_wazzabi

code65536 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Stupid that it's a 4man. We already have dsa. A 2man arena would have been awesome.

I know eso doesn't have 2 man content right now, but this could have opened the door for more to come.

No, it's not stupid. 4-man was the only way to go.

Think about it from a design standpoint. Okay, it's 2-man, great. Um, what's the group composition? 2x DD? Tank + DD? Healer + DD? If it's doable by 2x DD, then why would anyone want to bring a tank or a healer? You're also extremely limited in what kinds of mechanics that you can do if the content is designed to be done tankless.

If you add things that must be tanked, then what? Are you going to make content that makes all the healers felt left out? vMA v2 for the support roles. Are there even enough tanks to support a 1-to-1 tank-to-DD ratio?

You simply cannot design challenging and compelling mechanics and fights with just two people. You need 4. It had to be 4. The people calling for 2 never thought it through rationally.

Vma is the same. Everybody is a dd

For a 2man I would do 1dd, 1 healer. 1dd, 1tank would work too

_Ahala_

That Resto is gonna be insane on a Magden with vines and pollen... wonder if it’s gonna hit live like this

sevomd69

My first attempt would be 2 self-sustaining dps...if it were 2 man arena...

code65536

pieratsos wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Stupid that it's a 4man. We already have dsa. A 2man arena would have been awesome.

I know eso doesn't have 2 man content right now, but this could have opened the door for more to come.

No, it's not stupid. 4-man was the only way to go.

Think about it from a design standpoint. Okay, it's 2-man, great. Um, what's the group composition? 2x DD? Tank + DD? Healer + DD? If it's doable by 2x DD, then why would anyone want to bring a tank or a healer? You're also extremely limited in what kinds of mechanics that you can do if the content is designed to be done tankless.

If you add things that must be tanked, then what? Are you going to make content that makes all the healers felt left out? vMA v2 for the support roles. Are there even enough tanks to support a 1-to-1 tank-to-DD ratio?

You simply cannot design challenging and compelling mechanics and fights with just two people. You need 4. It had to be 4. The people calling for 2 never thought it through rationally.

Thats probably because you believe that the only possible ways of making a build is a strict healer, strict dd or strict tank. You can absolutely design challenging and compelling mechanics for two people. If anything even more so. Mechanics could most certainly require something more from the players. For example having a more tanky dd with snb backbar to take certain hits. Aka, you think a bit outside of the box and create actually compelling mechanics. Challenging and compelling mechanics is very subective when your numbers are growing simply because it doesnt always depend on you.

You mention vMA v2. Well vDSA v2 doesnt sound better either. At least vMA after all these years and the huge power creep still seems very hard to do for probably the majority of the players, and still gives a big sense of accomplishment for people who are doing it for the first time. No one to carry you and you have to do the mechanics urself. What exactly is more compelling or challenging in vDSA?

Its also kinda ironic to talk about problems with neglected healers/tanks and group composition in 2 man content when this problem is 100 times bigger in 4 man content. I mean, what exactly is the group compsition in vDSA?

Wow, trotting out the DSA strawman. DSA was released before CP even existed. At a time when there was basically no mechanics to speak of. And, yes, it's possible that the dungeon team will *** up and design BRP with poor mechanics that are no better than DSA's. But it's also possible that they release something more akin to a 4-man Cloudrest, with rich mechanics and robust demands on all three roles. But at least there is the possibility that they can get it right with 4-man.

You forgo that possibility entirely with the 2-man nonsense.

And if you think that 2-man will be anything other than vMA v2 with two self-sufficient DDs, then boy have I a bridge to sell you. Maybe that's what you want and your cup of tea. But I only need to look at how basic and limited vMA mechanics are (and no, don't start with this "but DSA!" whataboutism, as if content that is more archaic than vMA is somehow relevant to your point) to say, "pass" to that.

leepalmer95

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

A weapon that buffs uppercut? The Official Most Boring Skill in the Game?

awww...

That most boring skill takes 20x more effort to use than most playstyles in this game due to unreliability.

And besides that, uppercut and momentum are the only two abilities left without an altering weapon made for them, and Im pretty sure uppercut needs a lot more attention than momentum does.

No one is gonna use uppercut in a speed meta.

Ragnarock41

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

A weapon that buffs uppercut? The Official Most Boring Skill in the Game?

awww...

That most boring skill takes 20x more effort to use than most playstyles in this game due to unreliability.

And besides that, uppercut and momentum are the only two abilities left without an altering weapon made for them, and Im pretty sure uppercut needs a lot more attention than momentum does.

No one is gonna use uppercut in a speed meta.

You don't say? You're talking like it was actually used before lul

Lord_Eomer

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

A weapon that buffs uppercut? The Official Most Boring Skill in the Game?

awww...

That most boring skill takes 20x more effort to use than most playstyles in this game due to unreliability.

And besides that, uppercut and momentum are the only two abilities left without an altering weapon made for them, and Im pretty sure uppercut needs a lot more attention than momentum does.

No one is gonna use uppercut in a speed meta.

No one cares Uppercut hitting two more enemies for 50% damage. ZOS team literally need good team, they totally lack creativity in sets.

pieratsos

code65536 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Stupid that it's a 4man. We already have dsa. A 2man arena would have been awesome.

I know eso doesn't have 2 man content right now, but this could have opened the door for more to come.

No, it's not stupid. 4-man was the only way to go.

Think about it from a design standpoint. Okay, it's 2-man, great. Um, what's the group composition? 2x DD? Tank + DD? Healer + DD? If it's doable by 2x DD, then why would anyone want to bring a tank or a healer? You're also extremely limited in what kinds of mechanics that you can do if the content is designed to be done tankless.

If you add things that must be tanked, then what? Are you going to make content that makes all the healers felt left out? vMA v2 for the support roles. Are there even enough tanks to support a 1-to-1 tank-to-DD ratio?

You simply cannot design challenging and compelling mechanics and fights with just two people. You need 4. It had to be 4. The people calling for 2 never thought it through rationally.

Thats probably because you believe that the only possible ways of making a build is a strict healer, strict dd or strict tank. You can absolutely design challenging and compelling mechanics for two people. If anything even more so. Mechanics could most certainly require something more from the players. For example having a more tanky dd with snb backbar to take certain hits. Aka, you think a bit outside of the box and create actually compelling mechanics. Challenging and compelling mechanics is very subective when your numbers are growing simply because it doesnt always depend on you.

You mention vMA v2. Well vDSA v2 doesnt sound better either. At least vMA after all these years and the huge power creep still seems very hard to do for probably the majority of the players, and still gives a big sense of accomplishment for people who are doing it for the first time. No one to carry you and you have to do the mechanics urself. What exactly is more compelling or challenging in vDSA?

Its also kinda ironic to talk about problems with neglected healers/tanks and group composition in 2 man content when this problem is 100 times bigger in 4 man content. I mean, what exactly is the group compsition in vDSA?

Wow, trotting out the DSA strawman. DSA was released before CP even existed. At a time when there was basically no mechanics to speak of. And, yes, it's possible that the dungeon team will *** up and design BRP with poor mechanics that are no better than DSA's. But it's also possible that they release something more akin to a 4-man Cloudrest, with rich mechanics and robust demands on all three roles. But at least there is the possibility that they can get it right with 4-man.

You forgo that possibility entirely with the 2-man nonsense.

And if you think that 2-man will be anything other than vMA v2 with two self-sufficient DDs, then boy have I a bridge to sell you. Maybe that's what you want and your cup of tea. But I only need to look at how basic and limited vMA mechanics are (and no, don't start with this "but DSA!" whataboutism, as if content that is more archaic than vMA is somehow relevant to your point) to say, "pass" to that.

Yes because 4 man content are well known for rich compelling mechanics. Only DSA is the issue.

Nice logic tho. When it comes to 4 man they may make it good with rich compelling and fun mechanics but when it comes to 2 man nooooooooo God forbid. It will be 100% another burn and ignore mechanics crap. Lol

P. S. Dsa was actually rebalanced long after vMA was released. So yeah, there is that. vMA to this day is considered very hard content by the majority of the players and flawless conqueror is probably considered the most prestigious title.

crjs1

I really hope this is included in the group finder, and that finally we get a trial group finder. A large proportion of ESO players are solo and yet a huge chunk of group activities are not included in the activity finder.... doesn’t make sense!

code65536

pieratsos wrote: »

P. S. Dsa was actually rebalanced long after vMA was released. So yeah, there is that. vMA to this day is considered very hard content by the majority of the players and flawless conqueror is probably considered the most prestigious title.

DSA was rescaled in One Tamriel. Nothing changed except health and damage numbers. And removal of portal pre-killing.

vMA is a challenge of solo awareness/sufficiency. But mechanics? vMA's mechanics are no more interesting than DSA's.

runagate

Tryxus wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Hopefully destroy staff will improve Drain, not Impulse.

Its going to be impulse anyway,

All magicka players are going to hate it! Stamina gets 4 weapons and why magicka only 2?

It's gonna be Drain. These weps will boost the original 4th skill of each weapon tree, so it'll be Drain for destro

Thats very interesting assumptions given asylum already didnt follow that pattern

The skills were rearranged a while back. For destro it used to be: Touch, Wall, Force, Drain and Impulse.

The Arena weapons are still using the old skilltree positions

Edit: Bow and 2h were exceptions it seems, and they skipped the 3rd skill and buffed the 4th instead. But the 2h Blackrose seems to go back to the 3rd skill so I guess Bow will buff Scatter Shot and the others will buff their original 4th skill

Be weird to see an arena weapon buff dual wield Sparks. I'm still always startled when I see a launch-era delve boss cast Sparks in a fight.

Sparks - Briefly blinds target.

pieratsos

code65536 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

P. S. Dsa was actually rebalanced long after vMA was released. So yeah, there is that. vMA to this day is considered very hard content by the majority of the players and flawless conqueror is probably considered the most prestigious title.

DSA was rescaled in One Tamriel. Nothing changed except health and damage numbers. And removal of portal pre-killing.

vMA is a challenge of solo awareness/sufficiency. But mechanics? vMA's mechanics are no more interesting than DSA's.

Never said that it's perfect. If you have done it 4885832 times is just a walk through the park, the loot system is horrible and it has those few rng mechanics.

But vMA at its core is still to this day a very challenging content, it has one of the most prestigious titles and most certainly proves that u can create challenging content with compelling mechanics for 1 or 2 or 3 people.

Juhasow

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Stupid that it's a 4man. We already have dsa. A 2man arena would have been awesome.

I know eso doesn't have 2 man content right now, but this could have opened the door for more to come.

No, it's not stupid. 4-man was the only way to go.

Think about it from a design standpoint. Okay, it's 2-man, great. Um, what's the group composition? 2x DD? Tank + DD? Healer + DD? If it's doable by 2x DD, then why would anyone want to bring a tank or a healer? You're also extremely limited in what kinds of mechanics that you can do if the content is designed to be done tankless.

If you add things that must be tanked, then what? Are you going to make content that makes all the healers felt left out? vMA v2 for the support roles. Are there even enough tanks to support a 1-to-1 tank-to-DD ratio?

You simply cannot design challenging and compelling mechanics and fights with just two people. You need 4. It had to be 4. The people calling for 2 never thought it through rationally.

Vma is the same. Everybody is a dd

For a 2man I would do 1dd, 1 healer. 1dd, 1tank would work too

With the difference noone expect solo content to be for tanks or healers. Yes You can go there with more tanky or surviving setup yet solo content have its own rules but when it comes to group content it's totally different story. When You come solo into the content it's pretty straight forward You'll have to do dmg to kill enemies , You cannot expect to tank them or heal them to death but when You come into group content You expect certain mechanics requiring certain group composition.

With 2 man content certain compositions will be always better then others which will discriminate other builds and roles and when in vMA You can create separate leaderboard for classes which prevents certain setups from feeling non competitive and left behind in group content it's much harder to do. It would basicly require to make few separate versions of same areana just to make it similarly competitive for different roles compositions. Like @code65536 previously said if You could do this 2 man content in 2 DDs team why would You want to bring healer or tank , if tank would be required then healers would be left behind and vice versa. So if You would want to make it competitve for everyone You would have to make atleast versions for 2x DD , DD+tank , DD+healer and later differencesd between classes comes to play because in 2 man content You can still feel class disbalance. Two man content idea looks nice only on the paper but in reality it raises lot of issues since group content have certain rules that cannot be bypassed and when you try to bypass them then there is a lot of mess and shortcuts on the way.

brandonv516

So add 1pc bonuses to new weapons to get sales and then take the bonuses away 6 months later.

That's what we have to look forward to.

pieratsos

Juhasow wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Stupid that it's a 4man. We already have dsa. A 2man arena would have been awesome.

I know eso doesn't have 2 man content right now, but this could have opened the door for more to come.

No, it's not stupid. 4-man was the only way to go.

Think about it from a design standpoint. Okay, it's 2-man, great. Um, what's the group composition? 2x DD? Tank + DD? Healer + DD? If it's doable by 2x DD, then why would anyone want to bring a tank or a healer? You're also extremely limited in what kinds of mechanics that you can do if the content is designed to be done tankless.

If you add things that must be tanked, then what? Are you going to make content that makes all the healers felt left out? vMA v2 for the support roles. Are there even enough tanks to support a 1-to-1 tank-to-DD ratio?

You simply cannot design challenging and compelling mechanics and fights with just two people. You need 4. It had to be 4. The people calling for 2 never thought it through rationally.

Vma is the same. Everybody is a dd

For a 2man I would do 1dd, 1 healer. 1dd, 1tank would work too

With the difference noone expect solo content to be for tanks or healers. Yes You can go there with more tanky or surviving setup yet solo content have its own rules but when it comes to group content it's totally different story. When You come solo into the content it's pretty straight forward You'll have to do dmg to kill enemies , You cannot expect to tank them or heal them to death but when You come into group content You expect certain mechanics requiring certain group composition.

With 2 man content certain compositions will be always better then others which will discriminate other builds and roles and when in vMA You can create separate leaderboard for classes which prevents certain setups from feeling non competitive and left behind in group content it's much harder to do. It would basicly require to make few separate versions of same areana just to make it similarly competitive for different roles compositions. Like @code65536 previously said if You could do this 2 man content in 2 DDs team why would You want to bring healer or tank , if tank would be required then healers would be left behind and vice versa. So if You would want to make it competitve for everyone You would have to make atleast versions for 2x DD , DD+tank , DD+healer and later differencesd between classes comes to play because in 2 man content You can still feel class disbalance. Two man content idea looks nice only on the paper but in reality it raises lot of issues since group content have certain rules that cannot be bypassed and when you try to bypass them then there is a lot of mess and shortcuts on the way.

Why does it have to be either DD or tank or healer. Why cant it be content that requires something more from the players for example a DD that can take some hits or a tank that can heal or anything for that matter. You know, something different, something actually compelling and fun that isnt the same crap like everything else.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

pieratsos wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Stupid that it's a 4man. We already have dsa. A 2man arena would have been awesome.

I know eso doesn't have 2 man content right now, but this could have opened the door for more to come.

No, it's not stupid. 4-man was the only way to go.

Think about it from a design standpoint. Okay, it's 2-man, great. Um, what's the group composition? 2x DD? Tank + DD? Healer + DD? If it's doable by 2x DD, then why would anyone want to bring a tank or a healer? You're also extremely limited in what kinds of mechanics that you can do if the content is designed to be done tankless.

If you add things that must be tanked, then what? Are you going to make content that makes all the healers felt left out? vMA v2 for the support roles. Are there even enough tanks to support a 1-to-1 tank-to-DD ratio?

You simply cannot design challenging and compelling mechanics and fights with just two people. You need 4. It had to be 4. The people calling for 2 never thought it through rationally.

Vma is the same. Everybody is a dd

For a 2man I would do 1dd, 1 healer. 1dd, 1tank would work too

With the difference noone expect solo content to be for tanks or healers. Yes You can go there with more tanky or surviving setup yet solo content have its own rules but when it comes to group content it's totally different story. When You come solo into the content it's pretty straight forward You'll have to do dmg to kill enemies , You cannot expect to tank them or heal them to death but when You come into group content You expect certain mechanics requiring certain group composition.

With 2 man content certain compositions will be always better then others which will discriminate other builds and roles and when in vMA You can create separate leaderboard for classes which prevents certain setups from feeling non competitive and left behind in group content it's much harder to do. It would basicly require to make few separate versions of same areana just to make it similarly competitive for different roles compositions. Like @code65536 previously said if You could do this 2 man content in 2 DDs team why would You want to bring healer or tank , if tank would be required then healers would be left behind and vice versa. So if You would want to make it competitve for everyone You would have to make atleast versions for 2x DD , DD+tank , DD+healer and later differencesd between classes comes to play because in 2 man content You can still feel class disbalance. Two man content idea looks nice only on the paper but in reality it raises lot of issues since group content have certain rules that cannot be bypassed and when you try to bypass them then there is a lot of mess and shortcuts on the way.

Why does it have to be either DD or tank or healer. Why cant it be content that requires something more from the players for example a DD that can take some hits or a tank that can heal or anything for that matter. You know, something different, something actually compelling and fun that isnt the same crap like everything else.

Because some of us don't like the way roles are blurred, some of us only want to play healer, some of us only want to play tank. Some of us only want to worry about killing things. All classes can be what you are saying, a tanky self healing damage dealer, some more then others and a lot of the time in this game, that is the best way to play. Look at all the threads that are saying tank(who is really just there to hold the bosses still and stack mobs for the dps to burn) and 3 DPS is the only way to go. We need more content that makes tanks be tanks and healers be healers. Not just a blur between them.