HDR broke on xbox since wolfhunter? EDIT: Patch coming early october

woodap

Good to hear a reply, but to me it sounds like it’s all our own fault - because we ALL have low end TVs. What a load of old tosh. Some very nice and expensive TVs have been listed here.

And who are the people that prefer this new look?

Again, nice to hear a reply, but it still doesn’t sound like they intend to do much about it.

happyhughes2001

Bizzquik wrote: »

That's a great reply from Matt.

I agree with others that say reverting to pre-Update 19 HDR methodology now makes the most sense - if for no other reason than console players are just ten days into this new version: better to nip it in the bud now, make changes to the new HDR version in testing, then roll out a corrected version later .... versus letting the divide settle in for player tastes as this drags out.

My biggest gripe as I play today is the character selection screen; drab and devoid of color. That's not the ESO I love. That's how I know there is a legitimate problem - before I've even started playing, the game feels markedly off.

Here's hoping the team reaches a decision soon.

This post is spot on in my opinion.

Makes the most sense to change it back pre update.

Beardimus

To be honest I'm happier now we have a detailed explanation, and acknowledgment that things like this are VERY important to us.

Seemingly ZOS are going to do what they want to do, and we have to accept that, as out of our hands but knowing why im a little calmer.

Hopefully we get it back in its glory, If it stays as is ill ask for refunds on recent cosmetic purchases and not buy others but onwards we go. I'm keeping faith with what Matt says and hope they find a decent solution. Personally I'd revert it and see who moans. Cheaper than programming a switch which I really doubt will get used. But as long as i can have the old HDR On im easy with a switch lol

happyhughes2001

Bizzquik wrote: »

That's a great reply from Matt.

I agree with others that say reverting to pre-Update 19 HDR methodology now makes the most sense - if for no other reason than console players are just ten days into this new version: better to nip it in the bud now, make changes to the new HDR version in testing, then roll out a corrected version later .... versus letting the divide settle in for player tastes as this drags out.

My biggest gripe as I play today is the character selection screen; drab and devoid of color. That's not the ESO I love. That's how I know there is a legitimate problem - before I've even started playing, the game feels markedly off.

Here's hoping the team reaches a decision soon.

Hi @ZOS_MattFiror

Please revert to visual look pre update.

As poster says console gamers have only had 10 days with game post update.

It seems the best and fairest way is to revert back, and work on small changes from there.

Beardimus

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

Bizzquik wrote: »

That's a great reply from Matt.

I agree with others that say reverting to pre-Update 19 HDR methodology now makes the most sense - if for no other reason than console players are just ten days into this new version: better to nip it in the bud now, make changes to the new HDR version in testing, then roll out a corrected version later .... versus letting the divide settle in for player tastes as this drags out.

My biggest gripe as I play today is the character selection screen; drab and devoid of color. That's not the ESO I love. That's how I know there is a legitimate problem - before I've even started playing, the game feels markedly off.

Here's hoping the team reaches a decision soon.

This post is spot on in my opinion.

Makes the most sense to change it back pre update.

Actually yes, spot on. And those that don't like HDR can turn it off in other ways actually.

Regardless revert it now THEN work on a switch. Makes the majority happy @ZOS_MattFiror

Lastly at work we learnt the marketing team need to review their adverts on consumer TVs to test things. As watching on the £80k kick ass one in the suite in no way represented what customers actually saw. Perhaps that's part of the issue if the design team have some mega fancy setup and can't see what we are seeing. However the low end tv comment really isn't the factor for most ive spoken to have decent setups

MJallday

So first of all - thank you @ZOS_MattFiror - this is full, excellent response. this is exactly what i talked about earlier with "a little bit of honesty going a long way".

look at the responses now, much more positive and offering support.

fwiw - i know how difficult a rollback of a dev componant can be (actually the dev isnt too bad- its the testing!) , so appreciate it might not be as easy as what people make out - sometimes its easier to take the hit and fix in situ.

happyhughes2001

MJallday wrote: »

So first of all - thank you @ZOS_MattFiror - this is full, excellent response. this is exactly what i talked about earlier with "a little bit of honesty going a long way".

look at the responses now, much more positive and offering support.

fwiw - i know how difficult a rollback of a dev componant can be (actually the dev isnt too bad- its the testing!) , so appreciate it might not be as easy as what people make out - sometimes its easier to take the hit and fix in situ.

It’s too big a hit for me. Game looks terrible.

MJallday

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

So first of all - thank you @ZOS_MattFiror - this is full, excellent response. this is exactly what i talked about earlier with "a little bit of honesty going a long way".

look at the responses now, much more positive and offering support.

fwiw - i know how difficult a rollback of a dev componant can be (actually the dev isnt too bad- its the testing!) , so appreciate it might not be as easy as what people make out - sometimes its easier to take the hit and fix in situ.

It’s too big a hit for me. Game looks terrible.

yes it does, but now you understand WHY and HOW - and thats important.

The next stage in the journey is to understand "and so what" - now Matt has been really clear, theyre a bit stuck. i actually think they're stuck for a different reason for the ones he states (this is personal opinion rather than fact)

he says (paraphrasing) - theyll annoy some people if they roll back.

i dont think thats actually the case at all i think they're actually stuck because of the software versioning, rework and testing - and a rollback would have a massive impact on all 3 - particularly the testing and versioning. Therefore, it is better to put incremental fixes back (or indeed rework) with the relevant componants, rather than to roll back, which risks further dependancy issues.

either way, the fact is that matt said "they dont know and theyve got to re-evaluate options" - thats fine , its an answer, as long as its followed through. if its not followed through (with good comms and indeed actions) then there will be wider user base implications.

happyhughes2001

MJallday wrote: »

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

So first of all - thank you @ZOS_MattFiror - this is full, excellent response. this is exactly what i talked about earlier with "a little bit of honesty going a long way".

look at the responses now, much more positive and offering support.

fwiw - i know how difficult a rollback of a dev componant can be (actually the dev isnt too bad- its the testing!) , so appreciate it might not be as easy as what people make out - sometimes its easier to take the hit and fix in situ.

It’s too big a hit for me. Game looks terrible.

yes it does, but now you understand WHY and HOW - and thats important.

The next stage in the journey is to understand "and so what" - now Matt has been really clear, theyre a bit stuck. i actually think they're stuck for a different reason for the ones he states (this is personal opinion rather than fact)

he says (paraphrasing) - theyll annoy some people if they roll back.

i dont think thats actually the case at all i think they're actually stuck because of the software versioning, rework and testing - and a rollback would have a massive impact on all 3 - particularly the testing and versioning. Therefore, it is better to put incremental fixes back (or indeed rework) with the relevant componants, rather than to roll back, which risks further dependancy issues.

either way, the fact is that matt said "they dont know and theyve got to re-evaluate options" - thats fine , its an answer, as long as its followed through. if its not followed through (with good comms and indeed actions) then there will be wider user base implications.

It’s nice to finally know why, but as a gamer I care about the product I am playing. And that product has been visually diminished.

It baffles me how people can think it looks better, even though I have hardly seen anybody say that.

Revert it back, there was no outrage previously.

MJallday

It’s nice to finally know why, but as a gamer I care about the product I am playing. And that product has been visually diminished.

It baffles me how people can think it looks better, even though I have hardly seen anybody say that.

Revert it back, there was no outrage previously.

i think i agree. im not sure i buy the "people will be upset if we put it back how it was" argument - given the noise over this.

i didnt see too many reported complaints after the release of summerset . in fact the over saturation looked rather beautiful. those red / pink trees were just amazing.

reversion may not be possible due to the codebase/testing - but a fix in situ to replace the asset configuration would probably the be the most expedient route.

IwakuraLain42

Out of curiosity (I currently don't play the game) I loaded up my char on a PS4pro connected to a Panasonic 4K/HDR TV and visited a few of my houses during Tamriels night phase. The looks isn't too bad, the oversaturation is really gone but but I really noticed are the changes to lighting objects. I had one of my houses decorated with a lot blueish daedric fire thingies (from the Luxury Vendor) together with a lot of other lighting objects. All of those produced a very distinctive "glow", this now mostly gone, which makes the look quite a bit more boring then before.

PS: (I use 1080enhanced as the 4K versions tended to stress out my PS4 fans a lot)

ecconova

"However with that said. I decided to tweak my 4k HDR TV setting a little bit and try to stomach the dull world of Tamriel that was dropped upon us HDR players after the last patch. A few glasses of wine help me do that. What I noticed was a more realistic look to Tamriel. There is a beautiful subtle color to it that I slowly started to appreciate. I believe this is the intended look the developers wanted in their art direction. Based on other Elder Scrolls game especially Skyrim there is a gritty more desaturated look and ZeniMax was trying to keep the look of ESO in that style. What I am seeing now is what the developers intended. However it is not the Tamriel I started with.


I would not want to go back to the over saturated world I was accustom to playing in. But I am also not satisfied with what ZeniMax has done with the HDR and color after last update. That is the conundrum, I see their point but miss what I am use to, especially when it comes to my player houses. I have decided not to quit YET and see how this plays out. That is a big compromise for me because I was one of the angriest players after this change. I will not be buying anymore crowns until I see a fair solution offered by ZeniMax but I will continue to subscribe and play for now."


The above quote was from my previous post. When I got over the different look I realized the HDR was not broken and this was a stylistic choice made by ZeniMax. However for some of us this was not the style we saw when we entered the game. I hope they find a bit of a compromise. My suggestion was for HDR players a color enhancement of about 30% which would keep ESO inline with the stylistic intent but also give those of use who only knew the more colorful Tamriel a bit more of the vibrancy we enjoyed.

happyhughes2001

DreadKnight wrote: »

ESO is an immersive Fantasy MMO, colours should be slightly oversaturated imo. It's part of the immersion into a not-so-real fantasy world where things don't look drab and grey like they do in a lot of the real world.

Please change it back to the way it was - it looks positively drab and lifeless as it is now.

As others have pointed out - there were almost no players complaining before about colour saturation or the way the game looked in HDR - only positive comments. It's also easier to turn down saturation on TV controls if needed than it is to turn them up in a way that is balanced and visually pleasing imo.

Thanks to Matt for the detailed response. Again though, it shows that there is zero QA testing on console before release - and that continues to be ZOS's achilies heel - and the main source of the many, many complaints and bugs on console.

@ZOS_MattFiror

I totally agree with this.

Please revert back @ZOS_MattFiror

ecconova

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

So first of all - thank you @ZOS_MattFiror - this is full, excellent response. this is exactly what i talked about earlier with "a little bit of honesty going a long way".

look at the responses now, much more positive and offering support.

fwiw - i know how difficult a rollback of a dev componant can be (actually the dev isnt too bad- its the testing!) , so appreciate it might not be as easy as what people make out - sometimes its easier to take the hit and fix in situ.

It’s too big a hit for me. Game looks terrible.

yes it does, but now you understand WHY and HOW - and thats important.

The next stage in the journey is to understand "and so what" - now Matt has been really clear, theyre a bit stuck. i actually think they're stuck for a different reason for the ones he states (this is personal opinion rather than fact)

he says (paraphrasing) - theyll annoy some people if they roll back.

i dont think thats actually the case at all i think they're actually stuck because of the software versioning, rework and testing - and a rollback would have a massive impact on all 3 - particularly the testing and versioning. Therefore, it is better to put incremental fixes back (or indeed rework) with the relevant componants, rather than to roll back, which risks further dependancy issues.

either way, the fact is that matt said "they dont know and theyve got to re-evaluate options" - thats fine , its an answer, as long as its followed through. if its not followed through (with good comms and indeed actions) then there will be wider user base implications.

It’s nice to finally know why, but as a gamer I care about the product I am playing. And that product has been visually diminished.

It baffles me how people can think it looks better, even though I have hardly seen anybody say that.

Revert it back, there was no outrage previously.

I am one that is in the middle. I have a pretty good 4K HDR TV and there is a realistic subtly to the "new" look. I decided to just play for awhile and try not to compare the look of "new" Tamriel to the more saturated "old" Tamriel. I visited a lot of zones to judge how they looked to me. There was a more realistic look and depth to the world that was pretty great but still a bit to bland to me. I do get what they were trying to do. The less saturation actually give more detail and depth to a lot of things in the game world. I would like to see a smaller return to a bit more vibrant colors not a complete return. I doubt they will do that after how they explain their art asset philosophy so it will be back to the over saturated look or keep the current look. I wish they would actually consider a visual compromise. This in my opinion would make Tamriel more beautiful and realistic then ever.

happyhughes2001

ecconova wrote: »

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

So first of all - thank you @ZOS_MattFiror - this is full, excellent response. this is exactly what i talked about earlier with "a little bit of honesty going a long way".

look at the responses now, much more positive and offering support.

fwiw - i know how difficult a rollback of a dev componant can be (actually the dev isnt too bad- its the testing!) , so appreciate it might not be as easy as what people make out - sometimes its easier to take the hit and fix in situ.

It’s too big a hit for me. Game looks terrible.

yes it does, but now you understand WHY and HOW - and thats important.

The next stage in the journey is to understand "and so what" - now Matt has been really clear, theyre a bit stuck. i actually think they're stuck for a different reason for the ones he states (this is personal opinion rather than fact)

he says (paraphrasing) - theyll annoy some people if they roll back.

i dont think thats actually the case at all i think they're actually stuck because of the software versioning, rework and testing - and a rollback would have a massive impact on all 3 - particularly the testing and versioning. Therefore, it is better to put incremental fixes back (or indeed rework) with the relevant componants, rather than to roll back, which risks further dependancy issues.

either way, the fact is that matt said "they dont know and theyve got to re-evaluate options" - thats fine , its an answer, as long as its followed through. if its not followed through (with good comms and indeed actions) then there will be wider user base implications.

It’s nice to finally know why, but as a gamer I care about the product I am playing. And that product has been visually diminished.

It baffles me how people can think it looks better, even though I have hardly seen anybody say that.

Revert it back, there was no outrage previously.

I am one that is in the middle. I have a pretty good 4K HDR TV and there is a realistic subtly to the "new" look. I decided to just play for awhile and try not to compare the look of "new" Tamriel to the more saturated "old" Tamriel. I visited a lot of zones to judge how they looked to me. There was a more realistic look and depth to the world that was pretty great but still a bit to bland to me. I do get what they were trying to do. The less saturation actually give more detail and depth to a lot of things in the game world. I would like to see a smaller return to a bit more vibrant colors not a complete return. I doubt they will do that after how they explain their art asset philosophy so it will be back to the over saturated look or keep the current look. I which they would actually consider a visual compromise. This in my opinion would make Tamriel more beautiful and realistic then ever.

I can only speak for myself but the difference is drastic. It’s looks awful. I would like it reverted to before the update, and if required start with small changes.

I think people could agree that there is more disappointment in the visual look post patch than before.

Cuthceol

I find it absolutely amazing that even low priority bugs existing for years is considered ecceptable by devs

ForMalacath

I have the LG C7 OLED tv fwiw. Not sure what qualifies for high end tv in 2018 but in 2017 it was one of the top tv's around for HDR/4K. All other games look stunning in HDR as did ESO prior to the patch. If there are any positives I can think of post patch, I will say there are certain textures that look a little bit more detailed such as rocks and stone structures with carvings/sculptures on them, also reflections on water look a little clearer but I would happily take what we had before compared to what we have now. If there is a way of ZOS meeting the problem halfway then happy days, but I really hope we get some kind of fix sharpish!

One other thing I will add is I play with the tv set to 'game mode' which helps with input lag but does tend to naturally lower the contrast which does kind of exacerbate the problem, but again, it looked great before

happyhughes2001

I think we can all agree that there is much more disappointment post update than before.

Whether that be from the forums, in game chat, Twitter, Reddit. There is lots of disappointment.

Let’s revert to the pre update visual style, where the vast majority were happy. Surely that’s fairer as we had that for style for about a year, and this new dull style for 10 days?

@ZOS_MattFiror

Sandman929

WasteOfTime wrote: »

I find it absolutely amazing that even low priority bugs existing for years is considered ecceptable by devs

This

D1rtyButler

IMO this is inexcusable. I admit the colors were a little oversaturated but they threw the baby out with the bathwater here.

I have a TCL P-series TV and the game looks like utter garbage now. And sorry "Just buy a PC" or critiquing my television choice, or telling me to get used to it isn't going to cut it. I have plenty of other games that look just great that have no problems with HDR on my One X.

I'll drop this game before I drop my TV or my console.

Now, I have 16.5K Crowns I am looking to gift, or purchase items with and gift to my friends and then I'm out.

dotme

What we know now is that this issue is on the radar of the game's Director. We also know that the appearance of the entire game changed with this update (not minimizing the whole "Redguard Female Armor" thing, but this is everything in the game)

I understand the intention was to correct a previous mistake. I can also accept that the HDR in the game pre-update was a bit over-the-top. What I would like to see:

• If saturation levels are client-based, give users the ability to set their own level
• If not, at the very least please bring the levels back up to where the colors in-game are as intense and vivid as the colors in the load screens. Today they're clearly not.
• Please don't make us wait weeks for a fix. We waited weeks for the fix for endless PvP load screens last November, weeks for game PvP lock-up freezes this summer, and waiting weeks more for a fix for this latest issue isn't fair to console players.

For 10 out of the past 40 weeks, we've had to force-close the game on a regular basis just to continue playing. Now our whole game world has changed. As for that HDR slider... it does nothing at all. And no, I don't have a "cheaper HDR TV"

Please don't delay a fix for this. Find middle ground if you have to, but let's get it done.

Davor

Here is a question since I don't know nowthing about HDR. Couldn't Zenimax add in sliders in the options to make things brighter or darker, saturation or what not? Is it all in or all out? Options are always great because people can play how they like.

That is why I like programs like reshader or nVidia Experience so we can make the game look to our preference. Couldn't this be a great option to make everyone happy?

crjs1

ecconova wrote: »

"However with that said. I decided to tweak my 4k HDR TV setting a little bit and try to stomach the dull world of Tamriel that was dropped upon us HDR players after the last patch. A few glasses of wine help me do that. What I noticed was a more realistic look to Tamriel. There is a beautiful subtle color to it that I slowly started to appreciate. I believe this is the intended look the developers wanted in their art direction. Based on other Elder Scrolls game especially Skyrim there is a gritty more desaturated look and ZeniMax was trying to keep the look of ESO in that style. What I am seeing now is what the developers intended. However it is not the Tamriel I started with.


I would not want to go back to the over saturated world I was accustom to playing in. But I am also not satisfied with what ZeniMax has done with the HDR and color after last update. That is the conundrum, I see their point but miss what I am use to, especially when it comes to my player houses. I have decided not to quit YET and see how this plays out. That is a big compromise for me because I was one of the angriest players after this change. I will not be buying anymore crowns until I see a fair solution offered by ZeniMax but I will continue to subscribe and play for now."


The above quote was from my previous post. When I got over the different look I realized the HDR was not broken and this was a stylistic choice made by ZeniMax. However for some of us this was not the style we saw when we entered the game. I hope they find a bit of a compromise. My suggestion was for HDR players a color enhancement of about 30% which would keep ESO inline with the stylistic intent but also give those of use who only knew the more colorful Tamriel a bit more of the vibrancy we enjoyed.

Great idea, agree 100%

D1rtyButler

Yes I know I'm not getting a refund, fully aware of that. But what I can do is stop spending time and money on this game.

The game wasn't a "cartoon acid trip" before, and it is broken now. Period. You're just trying to spin this as if this is a positive. Even the Dev admits the change going this far was unintended, while at the same time saying we are SOL.

Your excuses for this are absolutely ridiculous.

edit: I mentioned wanting a refund because I realize *I* was a fool for dropping money on the largest Crown package available. That's my mistake. I admit. It won't happen again.

I know this game has fanboys that will excuse anything, but that's not me. My opinion is that I spent money on this game, and I expect not to get screwed. Once I have been screwed, the trust is broken and that's essentially it for me.

CleverAlchemist

Before Wolfhunter


After Wolfhunter


This was very unsettling to log in and discover. It looks like elder scrolls has been left out in the sun too long. I have trouble imagining anybody who prefers this "new way" and every affected player I've spoken with finds the new color saturation abysmal.

I'll be voting with my wallet on this issue and not purchasing another subscription, crown, or DLC until this has been resolved.

lagrue

CleverAlchemist wrote: »

Before Wolfhunter

After Wolfhunter

This was very unsettling to log in and discover. It looks like elder scrolls has been left out in the sun too long. I have trouble imagining anybody who prefers this "new way" and every affected player I've spoken with finds the new color saturation abysmal.

I'll be voting with my wallet on this issue and not purchasing another subscription, crown, or DLC until this has been resolved.

Wow. Your screenshot just affirms I made the right choice NOT getting an HDR TV. Opposite to what you say - I can't believe anybody would like Screenshot 1.... looks like a cartoon.

To each their own I guess, but screenshot 2 looks leagues better to my eyes, much more realistic and not over saturated. Just look at the two ferns - only one of those looks real... and it's not the HDR picture.

I feel for you guys having had it removed, and hopefully ZOS honours their word and fixes it up and reimplements it.... but wow... my eyes.

I have Pro and standard 4k TV and it looks better than either of those images - but much closer to the second image, which imo makes the game world look alot more realistic. I guess it depends what you want out of your visuals.

D1rtyButler

Clever, your after pic looks considerably better than what it does on my end now, but I still hear ya. I admit the HDR was a little oversaturated, and I mean literally "a little", but I'd rather have left it alone than have it become what it is now.

It looks like this game was released for a prior generation console now.

Anyway, HDR isn't some arcane mystery, and there are a ton of other games that get it right. I've said my piece and I will no longer be contributing to ZeniMax's revenue stream.

Good news is, thanks to this issue I finally put my Witcher 3 disc in and got into that game LOL. I think I'll be busy with that long, long while.

Elsonso

.

CleverAlchemist wrote: »

Before Wolfhunter


After Wolfhunter


This was very unsettling to log in and discover. It looks like elder scrolls has been left out in the sun too long. I have trouble imagining anybody who prefers this "new way" and every affected player I've spoken with finds the new color saturation abysmal.

I'll be voting with my wallet on this issue and not purchasing another subscription, crown, or DLC until this has been resolved.

Until I read your text, I thought you were going to post how much better the game looked since Wolfhunter. Your top picture is not as good as the lower one. :shrug:

Valrien

lordrichter wrote: »

.

CleverAlchemist wrote: »

Before Wolfhunter


After Wolfhunter


This was very unsettling to log in and discover. It looks like elder scrolls has been left out in the sun too long. I have trouble imagining anybody who prefers this "new way" and every affected player I've spoken with finds the new color saturation abysmal.

I'll be voting with my wallet on this issue and not purchasing another subscription, crown, or DLC until this has been resolved.

Until I read your text, I thought you were going to post how much better the game looked since Wolfhunter. Your top picture is not as good as the lower one. :shrug:

Same, that "before" picture is exactly what I've been talking about regarding "ugly cartoon world"

lagrue

Valrien wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

.

CleverAlchemist wrote: »

Before Wolfhunter


After Wolfhunter


This was very unsettling to log in and discover. It looks like elder scrolls has been left out in the sun too long. I have trouble imagining anybody who prefers this "new way" and every affected player I've spoken with finds the new color saturation abysmal.

I'll be voting with my wallet on this issue and not purchasing another subscription, crown, or DLC until this has been resolved.

Until I read your text, I thought you were going to post how much better the game looked since Wolfhunter. Your top picture is not as good as the lower one. :shrug:

Same, that "before" picture is exactly what I've been talking about regarding "ugly cartoon world"

I wanted to stab myself in the eyes seeing that... and we have 14 page topic now of people who actively WANT that... it blows my mind.