HDR broke on xbox since wolfhunter? EDIT: Patch coming early october

Krayl

GDOFWR420 wrote: »

Furthermore why are the menu's still in the same state as they were pre-patch(bold and not lacking in color), if you did adjust some things why aren't all the colors affected?

This sounds odd the more you talk, and think about it

the HDR issue is for the rendering engine of the 3D environments and materials. A different system overlays the UI elements and "2D" assets.

GDOFWR420

Krayl wrote: »

GDOFWR420 wrote: »

Furthermore why are the menu's still in the same state as they were pre-patch(bold and not lacking in color), if you did adjust some things why aren't all the colors affected?

This sounds odd the more you talk, and think about it

the HDR issue is for the rendering engine of the 3D environments and materials. A different system overlays the UI elements and "2D" assets.

Thanks, was curious. Menu's are the best looking part of the game now
J/K.

I adjusted my color, helps a little but not much.

Krayl

GDOFWR420 wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

GDOFWR420 wrote: »

Furthermore why are the menu's still in the same state as they were pre-patch(bold and not lacking in color), if you did adjust some things why aren't all the colors affected?

This sounds odd the more you talk, and think about it

the HDR issue is for the rendering engine of the 3D environments and materials. A different system overlays the UI elements and "2D" assets.

Thanks, was curious. Menu's are the best looking part of the game now
J/K.

I adjusted my color, helps a little but not much.

Yes, this is the problem with the people who say "just turn up the saturation on your TV" - great solution if you want garish load screens and UI elements, and neon chat text.

happyhughes2001

The consoles premium version has been vastly visually downgraded and they don’t seem bothered at all.

They all seem incompetent. Can’t even communicate properly!

What a joke of a company!

StrawberryKitsune

I'm honestly shocked for you guys that the best response you have had is basically a "tough **** it's staying like this. Deal. We MIGHT look into something at some point in the future...maybe." Absolutely shocking and appalling response.

What is even worse though is that there are some people in this thread who seem to be enjoying their fellow gamers' misery. Are your lives so sad and meaningless that you honestly get joy from seeing an anonymous person getting screwed over? If so that isn't right and says more about you then it does the person getting screwed.

When did we as a gaming community turn to this? When did we stop sticking together and saying that enough is enough? Doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you, it's plain as day that the way console players are being treated here isn't right. We should be standing behind them and trying to get this issue resolved suitably, not laughing at them and telling them to "get over it". You people should be ashamed. I bet this isn't now your parents wanted you to turn out.

How would us PC players feel if they made a change we didn't ask for, without putting it in the patch notes that when we logged in, left our once vibrant game grey and ashy? We wouldn't like it so why should console players stand for it?

Or better yet, how would we feel if we dropped upwards of £2000 on hardware with the promise of a superior gaming experience on a game you loved and invested time and real money in, only for that to be taken away with no word at all? I mean come on...surely anyone can see how people have a right to be narked off?!

I don't blame those saying they will quit or cancel their subs because taking money from ZOS' pocket is the only real wake up call they will ever get the message from. I sincerely hope you follow through and don't put up with this anymore. With all the bugs with each new patch, each new DLC breaking more to the point I'm scared to download it in case it breaks something for me, and clear consistent middle fingers when it comes to listening to feedback and communicating with the player base, when are we going to say enough is enough and it's time ZOS was held to account? It's time they get their act together and put some much needed resources into Quality Control for new content and maintenance/improvements for existing content to stop things like this becoming more common.

Sorry for my rant, I don't even play on console but we should be coming together here guys not fighting each other. While we bicker they are laughing all the way to the bank while much needed quality control and fixes go neglected and forgotten. We deserve better. Whatever the the platform. We.ALL.deserve.better!

happyhughes2001

StrawberryKitsune wrote: »

I'm honestly shocked for you guys that the best response you have had is basically a "tough **** it's staying like this. Deal. We MIGHT look into something at some point in the future...maybe." Absolutely shocking and appalling response.

What is even worse though is that there are some people in this thread who seem to be enjoying their fellow gamers' misery. Are your lives so sad and meaningless that you honestly get joy from seeing an anonymous person getting screwed over? If so that isn't right and says more about you then it does the person getting screwed.

When did we as a gaming community turn to this? When did we stop sticking together and saying that enough is enough? Doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you, it's plain as day that the way console players are being treated here isn't right. We should be standing behind them and trying to get this issue resolved suitably, not laughing at them and telling them to "get over it". You people should be ashamed. I bet this isn't now your parents wanted you to turn out.

How would us PC players feel if they made a change we didn't ask for, without putting it in the patch notes that when we logged in, left our once vibrant game grey and ashy? We wouldn't like it so why should console players stand for it?

Or better yet, how would we feel if we dropped upwards of £2000 on hardware with the promise of a superior gaming experience on a game you loved and invested time and real money in, only for that to be taken away with no word at all? I mean come on...surely anyone can see how people have a right to be narked off?!

I don't blame those saying they will quit or cancel their subs because taking money from ZOS' pocket is the only real wake up call they will ever get the message from. I sincerely hope you follow through and don't put up with this anymore. With all the bugs with each new patch, each new DLC breaking more to the point I'm scared to download it in case it breaks something for me, and clear consistent middle fingers when it comes to listening to feedback and communicating with the player base, when are we going to say enough is enough and it's time ZOS was held to account? It's time they get their act together and put some much needed resources into Quality Control for new content and maintenance/improvements for existing content to stop things like this becoming more common.

Sorry for my rant, I don't even play on console but we should be coming together here guys not fighting each other. While we bicker they are laughing all the way to the bank while much needed quality control and fixes go neglected and forgotten. We deserve better. Whatever the the platform. We.ALL.deserve.better!

Thank you for this.

I have been really disappointed by some of my fellow gamers responses.

Us gamers get enough stick outside of the gaming community. We should stick together within it.

Krayl

StrawberryKitsune wrote: »

I'm honestly shocked for you guys that the best response you have had is basically a "tough **** it's staying like this. Deal. We MIGHT look into something at some point in the future...maybe." Absolutely shocking and appalling response.

What is even worse though is that there are some people in this thread who seem to be enjoying their fellow gamers' misery. Are your lives so sad and meaningless that you honestly get joy from seeing an anonymous person getting screwed over? If so that isn't right and says more about you then it does the person getting screwed.

When did we as a gaming community turn to this? When did we stop sticking together and saying that enough is enough? Doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you, it's plain as day that the way console players are being treated here isn't right. We should be standing behind them and trying to get this issue resolved suitably, not laughing at them and telling them to "get over it". You people should be ashamed. I bet this isn't now your parents wanted you to turn out.

How would us PC players feel if they made a change we didn't ask for, without putting it in the patch notes that when we logged in, left our once vibrant game grey and ashy? We wouldn't like it so why should console players stand for it?

Or better yet, how would we feel if we dropped upwards of £2000 on hardware with the promise of a superior gaming experience on a game you loved and invested time and real money in, only for that to be taken away with no word at all? I mean come on...surely anyone can see how people have a right to be narked off?!

I don't blame those saying they will quit or cancel their subs because taking money from ZOS' pocket is the only real wake up call they will ever get the message from. I sincerely hope you follow through and don't put up with this anymore. With all the bugs with each new patch, each new DLC breaking more to the point I'm scared to download it in case it breaks something for me, and clear consistent middle fingers when it comes to listening to feedback and communicating with the player base, when are we going to say enough is enough and it's time ZOS was held to account? It's time they get their act together and put some much needed resources into Quality Control for new content and maintenance/improvements for existing content to stop things like this becoming more common.

Sorry for my rant, I don't even play on console but we should be coming together here guys not fighting each other. While we bicker they are laughing all the way to the bank while much needed quality control and fixes go neglected and forgotten. We deserve better. Whatever the the platform. We.ALL.deserve.better!

Well said.

Why would you take the approach of completely breaking the visuals for a large group of people - the group that has probably spent the most to get the most out of the game -and then telling them 'aww too bad but we arent gonna fix it rn srry"?

Kinda funny (sad?) that ZOS is ticking off the wrong crowd here - the crowd that wants the best visual gaming experience is also likely the crowd that wants the "best" overall gaming experience - the crowd that pays a subscription well in advance for crowns, the crowd that always wants the latest updates, the crowd that keeps an eye on new and exciting crown store items.

I am in no way saying that this crowd is worthy of extra attention or any more important as a customer that buys the game but doesn't subscribe - but you are giving the more free-spending crowd plenty of reasons to spend that money elsewhere on a company that gives a damn.

This is a HUGE issue and the fact that they don't seem to realize it is alarming.

Yellow_Monolith

StrawberryKitsune wrote: »

I'm honestly shocked for you guys that the best response you have had is basically a "tough **** it's staying like this. Deal. We MIGHT look into something at some point in the future...maybe." Absolutely shocking and appalling response.

What is even worse though is that there are some people in this thread who seem to be enjoying their fellow gamers' misery. Are your lives so sad and meaningless that you honestly get joy from seeing an anonymous person getting screwed over? If so that isn't right and says more about you then it does the person getting screwed.

When did we as a gaming community turn to this? When did we stop sticking together and saying that enough is enough? Doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you, it's plain as day that the way console players are being treated here isn't right. We should be standing behind them and trying to get this issue resolved suitably, not laughing at them and telling them to "get over it". You people should be ashamed. I bet this isn't now your parents wanted you to turn out.

How would us PC players feel if they made a change we didn't ask for, without putting it in the patch notes that when we logged in, left our once vibrant game grey and ashy? We wouldn't like it so why should console players stand for it?

Or better yet, how would we feel if we dropped upwards of £2000 on hardware with the promise of a superior gaming experience on a game you loved and invested time and real money in, only for that to be taken away with no word at all? I mean come on...surely anyone can see how people have a right to be narked off?!

I don't blame those saying they will quit or cancel their subs because taking money from ZOS' pocket is the only real wake up call they will ever get the message from. I sincerely hope you follow through and don't put up with this anymore. With all the bugs with each new patch, each new DLC breaking more to the point I'm scared to download it in case it breaks something for me, and clear consistent middle fingers when it comes to listening to feedback and communicating with the player base, when are we going to say enough is enough and it's time ZOS was held to account? It's time they get their act together and put some much needed resources into Quality Control for new content and maintenance/improvements for existing content to stop things like this becoming more common.

Sorry for my rant, I don't even play on console but we should be coming together here guys not fighting each other. While we bicker they are laughing all the way to the bank while much needed quality control and fixes go neglected and forgotten. We deserve better. Whatever the the platform. We.ALL.deserve.better!

Thank you for this. It feels to me personally, like we're being alienated atm on console

Krayl

Said it before and I'll say it again - it sure seems like ZOS regrets committing this game to console.

happyhughes2001

Krayl wrote: »

Said it before and I'll say it again - it sure seems like ZOS regrets committing this game to console.

Definitely seems that way. They don’t seem bothered at all.

StrawberryKitsune

Cactus316000 wrote: »

StrawberryKitsune wrote: »

I'm honestly shocked for you guys that the best response you have had is basically a "tough **** it's staying like this. Deal. We MIGHT look into something at some point in the future...maybe." Absolutely shocking and appalling response.

What is even worse though is that there are some people in this thread who seem to be enjoying their fellow gamers' misery. Are your lives so sad and meaningless that you honestly get joy from seeing an anonymous person getting screwed over? If so that isn't right and says more about you then it does the person getting screwed.

When did we as a gaming community turn to this? When did we stop sticking together and saying that enough is enough? Doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you, it's plain as day that the way console players are being treated here isn't right. We should be standing behind them and trying to get this issue resolved suitably, not laughing at them and telling them to "get over it". You people should be ashamed. I bet this isn't now your parents wanted you to turn out.

How would us PC players feel if they made a change we didn't ask for, without putting it in the patch notes that when we logged in, left our once vibrant game grey and ashy? We wouldn't like it so why should console players stand for it?

Or better yet, how would we feel if we dropped upwards of £2000 on hardware with the promise of a superior gaming experience on a game you loved and invested time and real money in, only for that to be taken away with no word at all? I mean come on...surely anyone can see how people have a right to be narked off?!

I don't blame those saying they will quit or cancel their subs because taking money from ZOS' pocket is the only real wake up call they will ever get the message from. I sincerely hope you follow through and don't put up with this anymore. With all the bugs with each new patch, each new DLC breaking more to the point I'm scared to download it in case it breaks something for me, and clear consistent middle fingers when it comes to listening to feedback and communicating with the player base, when are we going to say enough is enough and it's time ZOS was held to account? It's time they get their act together and put some much needed resources into Quality Control for new content and maintenance/improvements for existing content to stop things like this becoming more common.

Sorry for my rant, I don't even play on console but we should be coming together here guys not fighting each other. While we bicker they are laughing all the way to the bank while much needed quality control and fixes go neglected and forgotten. We deserve better. Whatever the the platform. We.ALL.deserve.better!

Thank you for this. It feels to me personally, like we're being alienated atm on console

I can promise that there are a lot of us out there with your backs, both on PC and Console. I'd argue the silent majority.

You all have valid points and legitimate reasons to be angry and feel this way and it's about time ZOS stepped up to the plate, apologise and do something to gain your trust back. The way I see it, they might well be about to lose a big chunk of revenue not just in this game but in any other future releases if they carry on like this. Really poor business practices but people seem to think that it is acceptable to be treated this way and to PAY them for the privilege too.

Davor

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

The consoles premium version has been vastly visually downgraded and they don’t seem bothered at all.

They all seem incompetent. Can’t even communicate properly!

What a joke of a company!

I am sure the people working on ESO are not incompetent at all. They are just NOT ALLOWED to say anything. It's the higher ups. The lawyers. Remember Zenimax just won a half billion dollar law suit. So what do they care right now. I am sure Gina and others want to say something but since NOBODY said anything especially the new boss, (sorry forgot your name) that would suggest they are not allowed to say anything on the issue.

Don't blame the people working on it, blame the bosses or the bosses above the bosses what ever they may be called. They are the ones who put the muzzle on and that is why we have silence now.

happyhughes2001

Davor wrote: »

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

The consoles premium version has been vastly visually downgraded and they don’t seem bothered at all.

They all seem incompetent. Can’t even communicate properly!

What a joke of a company!

I am sure the people working on ESO are not incompetent at all. They are just NOT ALLOWED to say anything. It's the higher ups. The lawyers. Remember Zenimax just won a half billion dollar law suit. So what do they care right now. I am sure Gina and others want to say something but since NOBODY said anything especially the new boss, (sorry forgot your name) that would suggest they are not allowed to say anything on the issue.

Don't blame the people working on it, blame the bosses or the bosses above the bosses what ever they may be called. They are the ones who put the muzzle on and that is why we have silence now.

With the amount of issues this game had, and now with the broken HDR on top I beg to differ.

The communications they have “been allowed” to make are inconsistent and poor.

There is no defending this.

Davor

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

The consoles premium version has been vastly visually downgraded and they don’t seem bothered at all.

They all seem incompetent. Can’t even communicate properly!

What a joke of a company!

I am sure the people working on ESO are not incompetent at all. They are just NOT ALLOWED to say anything. It's the higher ups. The lawyers. Remember Zenimax just won a half billion dollar law suit. So what do they care right now. I am sure Gina and others want to say something but since NOBODY said anything especially the new boss, (sorry forgot your name) that would suggest they are not allowed to say anything on the issue.

Don't blame the people working on it, blame the bosses or the bosses above the bosses what ever they may be called. They are the ones who put the muzzle on and that is why we have silence now.

With the amount of issues this game had, and now with the broken HDR on top I beg to differ.

The communications they have “been allowed” to make are inconsistent and poor.

There is no defending this.

I am not defending the company as a whole, but people working on the game are not to blame for the lack of communication. Sadly something happened, and I am sure the people who are suppose to communicate with us, want to, but are not allowed.

I am blaming the higher ups for the lack of communication, not the individuals people who work on the game and or forums. Some people seem to be blaming the individuals where I feel it's not right to blame. If we are going to place blame we need to place it where it belongs. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. But people like Gina and coders and artists shouldn't be blamed for lack of communication is all I am saying.

Krayl

I beg to differ. The community managers aren't just a filter from the company to the fans but also vice versa, and if they were beating the drum as hard as they should about this issue, we would have more feedback by now than "We dont plan to fix it any time soon, sorry charlie".

Sephiroth38

I come to support the cause.

I am a French player, and on the French forum, players do not support each other.

I started playing eso again after a few weeks of break and I discovered a dull, gray, almost dead game. I bought a 4k tv when I knew that eso was going to be optimized. I was delighted, it was beautiful, colorful, alive!

I am really sad about this downgrade. I feel that I can not do anything but suffer.

In short, you have the support of a French player.

Excuse my english please

Valrien

[removed quote]

I don't see why not. Zenimax Media (the parent company of ZOS) makes the big decisions. ZOS just follows.

Pretty much like how FFXIV works. SE tells Yoshida what he can and can't do while giving him a small amount of freedom, then siphons off most of the FFXIV profits to fund other projects.

Krayl

StrawberryKitsune wrote: »

The way I see it, they might well be about to lose a big chunk of revenue not just in this game but in any other future releases if they carry on like this.

This is where I am at.

I know how game dev works. You can't fix every bug, there's a process, there is testing, there is stability and timing to consider.

a ninja destruction of the game's visual integrity and a shoulder-shrug as a response is a different matter though and the kind of irresponsible action and response that leads one to mistrust a company moving forward.

One of these things is an expected game development process, the other is incompetence.

MJallday

Krayl wrote: »

I beg to differ. The community managers aren't just a filter from the company to the fans but also vice versa, and if they were beating the drum as hard as they should about this issue, we would have more feedback by now than "We dont plan to fix it any time soon, sorry charlie".

i look at this from a service delivery perspective. So, a community managers' job is to "manage the community" right?
that means good communication and expectation setting.

Now the message being delivered might not always be palletable, but by definition of role, there must be a clear, constant message being delivered - and ultimately, its about keeping the customer happy.

to date, there have been 2 comms on this issue.

1) an acknowledgement something is up
2) an email which is "its meant to be like this but we might do something about it

i think i could succinctly argue that
1) the communications have not been flowing
2) the communications have been vague
3) expectations have not been set
4) the customers are not happy

so by definition, this is poor customer service in action.

do i blame individuals? no of course not. However I do wonder what role the community managers are taking in this issue though? if i was one, my prime focus right now would be to be sat on this forum all day literally defending the honour of ZoS, batting off queries and setting clear expectation, whats happening right now, is nothing.

FWIW - (and ill give you this one for free) the correct answer to the community would be

1) we recognize something has happened. the reason why its happened is (a)
2) we know people are not happy, and we're truely sorry for that
3) our plan is to do (x) in the short term, (y) in the medium and (z) in the long term
4) bare with us whilst we do this, very sorry for the inconvenience, we'll keep you posted.

job done.

little bit of honesty goes a long way with people right?

just my 2p worth

happyhughes2001

MJallday wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

I beg to differ. The community managers aren't just a filter from the company to the fans but also vice versa, and if they were beating the drum as hard as they should about this issue, we would have more feedback by now than "We dont plan to fix it any time soon, sorry charlie".

i look at this from a service delivery perspective. So, a community managers' job is to "manage the community" right?
that means good communication and expectation setting.

Now the message being delivered might not always be palletable, but by definition of role, there must be a clear, constant message being delivered - and ultimately, its about keeping the customer happy.

to date, there have been 2 comms on this issue.

1) an acknowledgement something is up
2) an email which is "its meant to be like this but we might do something about it

i think i could succinctly argue that
1) the communications have not been flowing
2) the communications have been vague
3) expectations have not been set
4) the customers are not happy

so by definition, this is poor customer service in action.

do i blame individuals? no of course not. However I do wonder what role the community managers are taking in this issue though? if i was one, my prime focus right now would be to be sat on this forum all day literally defending the honour of ZoS, batting off queries and setting clear expectation, whats happening right now, is nothing.

FWIW - (and ill give you this one for free) the correct answer to the community would be

1) we recognize something has happened. the reason why its happened is (a)
2) we know people are not happy, and we're truely sorry for that
3) our plan is to do (x) in the short term, (y) in the medium and (z) in the long term
4) bare with us whilst we do this, very sorry for the inconvenience, we'll keep you posted.

job done.

little bit of honesty goes a long way with people right?

just my 2p worth

Well said.

swirve

StrawberryKitsune wrote: »

I'm honestly shocked for you guys that the best response you have had is basically a "tough **** it's staying like this. Deal. We MIGHT look into something at some point in the future...maybe." Absolutely shocking and appalling response.

What is even worse though is that there are some people in this thread who seem to be enjoying their fellow gamers' misery. Are your lives so sad and meaningless that you honestly get joy from seeing an anonymous person getting screwed over? If so that isn't right and says more about you then it does the person getting screwed.

When did we as a gaming community turn to this? When did we stop sticking together and saying that enough is enough? Doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you, it's plain as day that the way console players are being treated here isn't right. We should be standing behind them and trying to get this issue resolved suitably, not laughing at them and telling them to "get over it". You people should be ashamed. I bet this isn't now your parents wanted you to turn out.

How would us PC players feel if they made a change we didn't ask for, without putting it in the patch notes that when we logged in, left our once vibrant game grey and ashy? We wouldn't like it so why should console players stand for it?

Or better yet, how would we feel if we dropped upwards of £2000 on hardware with the promise of a superior gaming experience on a game you loved and invested time and real money in, only for that to be taken away with no word at all? I mean come on...surely anyone can see how people have a right to be narked off?!

I don't blame those saying they will quit or cancel their subs because taking money from ZOS' pocket is the only real wake up call they will ever get the message from. I sincerely hope you follow through and don't put up with this anymore. With all the bugs with each new patch, each new DLC breaking more to the point I'm scared to download it in case it breaks something for me, and clear consistent middle fingers when it comes to listening to feedback and communicating with the player base, when are we going to say enough is enough and it's time ZOS was held to account? It's time they get their act together and put some much needed resources into Quality Control for new content and maintenance/improvements for existing content to stop things like this becoming more common.

Sorry for my rant, I don't even play on console but we should be coming together here guys not fighting each other. While we bicker they are laughing all the way to the bank while much needed quality control and fixes go neglected and forgotten. We deserve better. Whatever the the platform. We.ALL.deserve.better!

My 4k HDR hardware plus PS Pro is way over £2k... happy i am not.

blunned

It was a hard decision but I have officially decided I am unsubbing when I get home tonight. I will keep posting and reading, but I won’t be playing. I would suggest everyone who has reddit go to the r/elderscrollsonline and make your discontent known there as well. I recently posted about this and there are a few posts from other people on there about it. I don’t want this problem to go away and have others fall into the same trap I did.

Acrolas

Krayl wrote: »

a ninja destruction of the game's visual integrity and a shoulder-shrug as a response is a different matter though and the kind of irresponsible action and response that leads one to mistrust a company moving forward.

There was nothing covert or villanous about it.
"The change to HDR was intended to aid in some overly-saturated assets found throughout the game but it had some unintended consequences."

As there still isn't an industry standard on HDR, implementing a solution requires a fair amount of guesswork for the present as well as the future. It's like the old DVD versus DIVX consumer war. But whereas Dolby Vision seems like the underdog now compared to HDR10, I think DV is going to win out in the long run. For the reason that people didn't like the old ESO implementation of HDR - HDR10 is over-emphasized and oversaturated. It's obnoxiously unwatchable in standard formats for really no other reason than to sell more HDR units and win support for a specific format over another one.

Early tech adopters like to think they're right and everyone should wise up and get on their side. But in all honesty, consumer electronics is one long exercise in beta testing ideas that are in no way ever guaranteed to catch on.

HDR could not stay like this in ESO and please everyone. The fix wasn't what they intended. There will be other fixes and refinements but I agree that rushing out a solution or rolling back to the old version aren't ideal. And if ESO Standard is so terrible that it's unplayable on your HDR device, then doesn't that mean that an entire century of standard content is also unplayable on that device? Feels more like a fault of the loosely-defined HDR sticker on that device, as SDR content is supposed to look the same or better on an HDR device.

It's starting to feel like a couple of frat guys who became infatuated with a cheerleader and then freaked out when they saw her without makeup and demanded that she put the makeup back on so that she conformed to their specific version of attractiveness.

You're getting the makeup back. But on her terms. And I doubt she'll be too sad about losing the people who prefer to blindly attack than to be patient and understanding through a learning curve on new tech.

happyhughes2001

swirve wrote: »

StrawberryKitsune wrote: »

I'm honestly shocked for you guys that the best response you have had is basically a "tough **** it's staying like this. Deal. We MIGHT look into something at some point in the future...maybe." Absolutely shocking and appalling response.

What is even worse though is that there are some people in this thread who seem to be enjoying their fellow gamers' misery. Are your lives so sad and meaningless that you honestly get joy from seeing an anonymous person getting screwed over? If so that isn't right and says more about you then it does the person getting screwed.

When did we as a gaming community turn to this? When did we stop sticking together and saying that enough is enough? Doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you, it's plain as day that the way console players are being treated here isn't right. We should be standing behind them and trying to get this issue resolved suitably, not laughing at them and telling them to "get over it". You people should be ashamed. I bet this isn't now your parents wanted you to turn out.

How would us PC players feel if they made a change we didn't ask for, without putting it in the patch notes that when we logged in, left our once vibrant game grey and ashy? We wouldn't like it so why should console players stand for it?

Or better yet, how would we feel if we dropped upwards of £2000 on hardware with the promise of a superior gaming experience on a game you loved and invested time and real money in, only for that to be taken away with no word at all? I mean come on...surely anyone can see how people have a right to be narked off?!

I don't blame those saying they will quit or cancel their subs because taking money from ZOS' pocket is the only real wake up call they will ever get the message from. I sincerely hope you follow through and don't put up with this anymore. With all the bugs with each new patch, each new DLC breaking more to the point I'm scared to download it in case it breaks something for me, and clear consistent middle fingers when it comes to listening to feedback and communicating with the player base, when are we going to say enough is enough and it's time ZOS was held to account? It's time they get their act together and put some much needed resources into Quality Control for new content and maintenance/improvements for existing content to stop things like this becoming more common.

Sorry for my rant, I don't even play on console but we should be coming together here guys not fighting each other. While we bicker they are laughing all the way to the bank while much needed quality control and fixes go neglected and forgotten. We deserve better. Whatever the the platform. We.ALL.deserve.better!

My 4k HDR hardware plus PS Pro is way over £2k... happy i am not.

It’s so frustrating. I’m in same position with Xbox one x and good 4k HDR tv.

o_0

A good PC capable of 4k gameplay with 30-60 FPS? Sure...maybe.... Including a good 4k comparable display? Don't think so.

I've played on PC since launch in 2014, and switched to XBOX last year. There are reasons console is preferred for some, even if they are dedicated PC players like myself. I'll choose my XBOX and OLED 4k HDR (original settings) over my $4k PC any day for ESO.

Even with the HDR change I prefer console, albeit I play and pay less since the change.

blunned

Acrolas wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

a ninja destruction of the game's visual integrity and a shoulder-shrug as a response is a different matter though and the kind of irresponsible action and response that leads one to mistrust a company moving forward.

There was nothing covert or villanous about it.
"The change to HDR was intended to aid in some overly-saturated assets found throughout the game but it had some unintended consequences."

As there still isn't an industry standard on HDR, implementing a solution requires a fair amount of guesswork for the present as well as the future. It's like the old DVD versus DIVX consumer war. But whereas Dolby Vision seems like the underdog now compared to HDR10, I think DV is going to win out in the long run. For the reason that people didn't like the old ESO implementation of HDR - HDR10 is over-emphasized and oversaturated. It's obnoxiously unwatchable in standard formats for really no other reason than to sell more HDR units and win support for a specific format over another one.

Early tech adopters like to think they're right and everyone should wise up and get on their side. But in all honesty, consumer electronics is one long exercise in beta testing ideas that are in no way ever guaranteed to catch on.

HDR could not stay like this in ESO and please everyone. The fix wasn't what they intended. There will be other fixes and refinements but I agree that rushing out a solution or rolling back to the old version aren't ideal. And if ESO Standard is so terrible that it's unplayable on your HDR device, then doesn't that mean that an entire century of standard content is also unplayable on that device? Feels more like a fault of the loosely-defined HDR sticker on that device, as SDR content is supposed to look the same or better on an HDR device.

It's starting to feel like a couple of frat guys who became infatuated with a cheerleader and then freaked out when they saw her without makeup and demanded that she put the makeup back on so that she conformed to their specific version of attractiveness.

You're getting the makeup back. But on her terms. And I doubt she'll be too sad about losing the people who prefer to blindly attack than to be patient and understanding through a learning curve on new tech.

First of all, the tech is not “new.” It’s been mainstream for over 3 years when amazon started using it in their video streaming and as a technology it’s been around much longer than that. Blindly attacking is what you are doing with this post. Have you even read what people have said on here? Most people’s posts have been very understanding that technical issues occur and they just want better communication and less apathy from ZOS toward console users. I’ll use something similar to your analogy that is more accurate and less offensive. You buy this beautiful car and spend thousands of dollars to upgrade its engine only to find out the paint comes off with the first rainstorm and there is barely any color left. Oh and the stick shift only works some of the time and every time you upgrade the car to new software something else breaks, and you didn’t realize buying the car from a different dealer (console) came with absolutely zero support and no warranty. You should have bought the car from the other dealer (PC) because they have add-ons to make the steering wheel, radio, and stick shift to function as it should have at baseline. When you complain to the company about your defective car they either ignore you or try to sell you extra spoilers and useless cosmetics.

stargazer69

Kind of ironic that they gave away a couple of Summerset themed consoles (anouncement doesn't state whether Pro / x1x) at Pax West that now are graphically borked.

As to the poster who opined that "As there still isn't an industry standard on HDR, implementing a solution requires a fair amount of guesswork ", HDR10 (industry standard ITU-R BT.2100) is supported by both Sony and Microsoft consoles - so no guesswork required, just proper implementation of the standard.

ecconova

blunned wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

Krayl wrote: »

a ninja destruction of the game's visual integrity and a shoulder-shrug as a response is a different matter though and the kind of irresponsible action and response that leads one to mistrust a company moving forward.

There was nothing covert or villanous about it.
"The change to HDR was intended to aid in some overly-saturated assets found throughout the game but it had some unintended consequences."

As there still isn't an industry standard on HDR, implementing a solution requires a fair amount of guesswork for the present as well as the future. It's like the old DVD versus DIVX consumer war. But whereas Dolby Vision seems like the underdog now compared to HDR10, I think DV is going to win out in the long run. For the reason that people didn't like the old ESO implementation of HDR - HDR10 is over-emphasized and oversaturated. It's obnoxiously unwatchable in standard formats for really no other reason than to sell more HDR units and win support for a specific format over another one.

Early tech adopters like to think they're right and everyone should wise up and get on their side. But in all honesty, consumer electronics is one long exercise in beta testing ideas that are in no way ever guaranteed to catch on.

HDR could not stay like this in ESO and please everyone. The fix wasn't what they intended. There will be other fixes and refinements but I agree that rushing out a solution or rolling back to the old version aren't ideal. And if ESO Standard is so terrible that it's unplayable on your HDR device, then doesn't that mean that an entire century of standard content is also unplayable on that device? Feels more like a fault of the loosely-defined HDR sticker on that device, as SDR content is supposed to look the same or better on an HDR device.

It's starting to feel like a couple of frat guys who became infatuated with a cheerleader and then freaked out when they saw her without makeup and demanded that she put the makeup back on so that she conformed to their specific version of attractiveness.

You're getting the makeup back. But on her terms. And I doubt she'll be too sad about losing the people who prefer to blindly attack than to be patient and understanding through a learning curve on new tech.

First of all, the tech is not “new.” It’s been mainstream for over 3 years when amazon started using it in their video streaming and as a technology it’s been around much longer than that. Blindly attacking is what you are doing with this post. Have you even read what people have said on here? Most people’s posts have been very understanding that technical issues occur and they just want better communication and less apathy from ZOS toward console users. I’ll use something similar to your analogy that is more accurate and less offensive. You buy this beautiful car and spend thousands of dollars to upgrade its engine only to find out the paint comes off with the first rainstorm and there is barely any color left. Oh and the stick shift only works some of the time and every time you upgrade the car to new software something else breaks, and you didn’t realize buying the car from a different dealer (console) came with absolutely zero support and no warranty. You should have bought the car from the other dealer (PC) because they have add-ons to make the steering wheel, radio, and stick shift to function as it should have at baseline. When you complain to the company about your defective car they either ignore you or try to sell you extra spoilers and useless cosmetics.

Well said

ZOS_MattFiror

I know there’s more than a little bit of concern from our Xbox One X and PlayStation 4 Pro players who take advantage of the HDR modes on those consoles. For those that are unaware, HDR is a graphics mode that allows the game client to far more subtly render colors to make scenes with a lot of detail almost lifelike. It is really cool and makes ESO look amazing, especially in scenes where there is a lot of color and detail, like sunsets. In the latest update, we made a change that altered the way HDR support in ESO works by “normalizing” lighting and color values, which led many players who use HDR believe it makes the game look bland.

The explanation for what happened here is illuminating, as it gives some insight into our development process, especially how we treat bugs vs. how we treat new art assets and shaders.

On the development side, we have a strict policy to never change art assets once they have been in the live game, except – and this is important – if they are obviously “wrong”. Think bad animations, shoulder pads clipping through armor, weapons hanging too far off a character model’s hip – that kind of thing. This “no change” policy has been in effect since the Redguard Female Armor Debacle of 2015. This was where we updated the visuals of one type of Redguard Female armor and pushed it live without thinking of the consequences of players who liked the way it looked and had been using it for over a year. This caused a lot of – very much merited – criticism from players that liked the older style much better. That’s when we started our “no change” policy. Even if we think an asset needs to updated because it doesn’t fit ESO’s established art style or the artist responsible thinks they could have done better, we no longer change live assets because players are used to the way the game and their characters look, and that is more important than what WE think.

Funny story about this – and I’m sure you are all seeing where this is going – we have a backlog of art bugs and issues that we address over time. If these are flagged as low priority, it can take a long time to get to them. Just after our HDR versions of ESO launched, we flagged an HDR issue where some assets were not responding correctly to our HDR renderer – their color values were not configured properly and were “blown out”, meaning they were far too bright for the established ESO art style. This was entered as a bug, and sat there (not high priority) on the bug list for a few years. Eventually it was addressed and made its way into the build that launched with Update 19 (Wolfhunter).

A side effect of this change is that it changes how our HDR “slider” bar displays HDR changes – on some TVs, you won’t notice any change after moving the slider 10-15%. This is exacerbated by the fact that there is no commonly accepted HDR standard for TVs – cheaper HDR TVs tend to be dimmer with not as much control, and higher-end TVs have a large range of brightness. You’ll definitely notice a difference after our change, especially if you have one of the lower-end TVs.

Short story: It was flagged as a bug, not an “art asset change”, so it never came to the attention of the Art Director (or me) until it went live. Obviously this should have been seen as an “art change”, not a bug fix. We should not have changed it, even if we think that the change is merited, due to our “no change once live” policy.

So now this leaves us in a sticky situation: if we change it back, there will be players that like the new way better than the old. And they will be correct, just as are the ones who like the old way – this is subjective. We are now in a no-win situation, which is why we haven’t given you guys much information up until this point. What we need to do is step back, look at our options, and figure out what is the best thing to do that makes the highest number of players happy. I’m not 100% sure what this is yet, but hang tight and we’ll let you know.

And my sincere apologies for rolling this out with no information, no background, and no heads-up. We take this very seriously, and we’ll make some process changes to ensure something like this doesn’t happen again in the future, just like we did during the Redguard Female Armor Debacle.

Krayl

*edited since ZOS responded*

@ZOS_MattFiror

Thanks for the response.

The thing is that nobody was clamoring for a change before the update occurred that i could see. Everyone seemed happy with the way it looked. So I don't see how reverting it is not a no-brainer.

I also know from communicating with several folks who play the game on a wide range of TVs that implying that only people with "low end" tvs are the ones with problems is inaccurate.