HDR broke on xbox since wolfhunter? EDIT: Patch coming early october

happyhughes2001

Please can we have the colour back.

D1rtyButler

Some games are exceptionally loud and I have to turn down the volume. Same principal.

LOL same principle, no. Digging into your TV's menu settings is nowhere close to adjusting a volume rocker. You're trolling.

You wouldn't want to have to change your car's oil every single time you took out the driveway would you? Same principle.

D1rtyButler

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

Please can we have the colour back.

Apparently not. Shame. A 10-15% decrease in saturation would have been great. Instead they gimped the graphics completely and we have trolls here defending turning this into a game from 2007.

happyhughes2001

D1rtyButler wrote: »

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

Please can we have the colour back.

Apparently not. Shame. A 10-15% decrease in saturation would have been great. Instead they gimped the graphics completely and we have trolls here defending turning this into a game from 2007.

Yeah it’s such a shame. Hopefully it will be corrected and the visuals will be restored.

Valrien

D1rtyButler wrote: »

Some games are exceptionally loud and I have to turn down the volume. Same principal.

LOL same principle, no. Digging into your TV's menu settings is nowhere close to adjusting a volume rocker. You're trolling.

You wouldn't want to have to change your car's oil every single time you took out the driveway would you? Same principle.

Not quite. It's more like having a car that has the option of switching between 4-wheel drive and rear/front-wheel drive (my dad's Jeep has that feature, for example) and needing to switch to 4-wheel for rougher terrain.

happyhughes2001

D1rtyButler wrote: »

Some games are exceptionally loud and I have to turn down the volume. Same principal.

LOL same principle, no. Digging into your TV's menu settings is nowhere close to adjusting a volume rocker. You're trolling.

You wouldn't want to have to change your car's oil every single time you took out the driveway would you? Same principle.

Correct again.

SirBobbyDanger

Like a few people have mentioned for themselves, I've adjusted to the colors post-Wolfhunter. I don't think the new presentation is altogether better, and I don't think you can truly capture the differences by comparing a few screenshots. Some of the improvements are subtle, some of the changes expose flaws that weren't as obvious before, etc. It took me a while to get there, in no small part because I truly did not like looking at the game.

It becomes even more apparent to me that the new presentation is bland, however, when I switch to other HDR games on the same setup. I hadn't checked out HDR in other games since, and wow. It is absolutely possible to have bright colors and detail without being over-saturated. It's not just old good, new bad; there are much better presentations of HDR, and it seems feasible to create a presentation that avoids being what some might call cartoonish and still avoids being yet another Bethesda Brown™ game. I mean, if that is the art direction, to have ESO look like the same mud-smeared fart as other Bethesda games, despite the breadth of environments, I get it. It sucks and I think it's a silly art direction, but I'm not an art director and the last time someone gave me an award for a piece of art, Morrowind was brand new. So maybe my own preference for some color, for once, is wrong in the sense that it doesn't fit the overall vision for the game.

Nevertheless, I would prefer something in-between the previous and current setup, and I don't envy ZoS' path to fix their graphics, even if the situation is their own doing. I reiterate this because I'm not the only person whose opinion is shifting. I am still not clear between the ZoS responses if the current version is what they intended and they are grappling with the intense negative feedback and fallout from the poorly communicated implementation or if the current visuals are not what they have intended.

If the visuals aren't what they intended, what should we be seeing? Some vivid colors mixed with a more subtle palette? What does this mean for the dye system? The outfit system? You could have quite literally paid real money for dye stamps or costumes that are not the same color now as they were when you bought them.

Beardimus

Valrien wrote: »

D1rtyButler wrote: »

I don't play ESO on console because I tried it and hated everything about it

Irrelevant

but for example of I ran into a similar issue playing...idk, Bloodborne just as an example? I'd happily fix it every time.

(Honestly though Bloodborne is a damn masterpiece and I would do anything to make it even more amazing. That was just more of an example though)

So you're cool with having to fix an incomplete or broken product every time you use it? There's a word for that: "sucker"

I just have to add that first part pretty much every time I post in this thread now, otherwise the gatekeepers will try to force me out.

And I wouldn't call myself a sucker. Adjusting your TV settings is not especially a big deal.

Some games are exceptionally loud and I have to turn down the volume. Same principal.

Mate, you can't adjust your TV settings to get true HDR. We all wasted our monies on decent tvs if so and my one from 10 years ago be ok lol.

Id like my tv to remain professionally calibrated as it thanks, and just add HDR as we had.

Seriously what's your beef. Last response from me

happyhughes2001

The new monster weapon sets look dreadful post patch with the broken HDR!!!!

Valrien

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

The new monster weapon sets look dreadful post patch with the broken HDR!!!!

Now this I would believe. The effects don't look great in vanilla.

I still buy them though because I still think they look good...just not great

happyhughes2001

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror is it possible for refunds on purchases such as the weapon monster sets, as they no longer look as advertised?

Lots of others items such as mounts and housing items which also now look dreadful.

happyhughes2001

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror do you think you should take down the HDR enhancement advertisement in the Xbox store for this game? It’s false advertising now after the visual downgrade.

woodap

Who would have thought a “little” tweak to HDR would make my favourite game look like some poorly done ps3 game?. For me is not just the colour saturation, everything looks, well, meh. It was beautiful before, bright, crisp, colourful, high resolution.

Why is it now better looking and more crisp and defined on my old PS4 with HD tv, than it now does on my pro and 4k tv?... sorry but I really don’t understand this.

happyhughes2001

woodap wrote: »

Who would have thought a “little” tweak to HDR would make my favourite game look like some poorly done ps3 game?. For me is not just the colour saturation, everything looks, well, meh. It was beautiful before, bright, crisp, colourful, high resolution.

Why is it now better looking and more crisp and defined on my old PS4 with HD tv, than it now does on my pro and 4k tv?... sorry but I really don’t understand this.

It’s dreadful how big a visual downgrade this is.

blunned

I am one of the ones that quit over this issue (don’t remember throwing a fit however), but I also explained that there we many for factors involved than just the visuals. If the visuals had been the only issue I’d still be around. I definitely don’t blame the people that did quit solely over this though. I notice a few more people chiming in about being able to stand the new visuals. It seems that most of them are having to screw with their tv to do so which is unacceptable, but it’s good to hear the other side of the argument.

happyhughes2001

SirBobbyDanger wrote: »

Like a few people have mentioned for themselves, I've adjusted to the colors post-Wolfhunter. I don't think the new presentation is altogether better, and I don't think you can truly capture the differences by comparing a few screenshots. Some of the improvements are subtle, some of the changes expose flaws that weren't as obvious before, etc. It took me a while to get there, in no small part because I truly did not like looking at the game.

It becomes even more apparent to me that the new presentation is bland, however, when I switch to other HDR games on the same setup. I hadn't checked out HDR in other games since, and wow. It is absolutely possible to have bright colors and detail without being over-saturated. It's not just old good, new bad; there are much better presentations of HDR, and it seems feasible to create a presentation that avoids being what some might call cartoonish and still avoids being yet another Bethesda Brown™ game. I mean, if that is the art direction, to have ESO look like the same mud-smeared fart as other Bethesda games, despite the breadth of environments, I get it. It sucks and I think it's a silly art direction, but I'm not an art director and the last time someone gave me an award for a piece of art, Morrowind was brand new. So maybe my own preference for some color, for once, is wrong in the sense that it doesn't fit the overall vision for the game.

Nevertheless, I would prefer something in-between the previous and current setup, and I don't envy ZoS' path to fix their graphics, even if the situation is their own doing. I reiterate this because I'm not the only person whose opinion is shifting. I am still not clear between the ZoS responses if the current version is what they intended and they are grappling with the intense negative feedback and fallout from the poorly communicated implementation or if the current visuals are not what they have intended.

If the visuals aren't what they intended, what should we be seeing? Some vivid colors mixed with a more subtle palette? What does this mean for the dye system? The outfit system? You could have quite literally paid real money for dye stamps or costumes that are not the same color now as they were when you bought them.

I have asked for refunds on items I bought, as they no longer look like advertised. I have had no response.

Davor

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

I have asked for refunds on items I bought, as they no longer look like advertised. I have had no response.

No response yet is because the lawyers are getting involved now and they have to see what they say first. So they can't comment either way right now. I am sure they don't want to give out refunds, but if it's not "sold as advertised" the lawyers are seeing if refunds have to be put out and the chances of a Class Action Lawsuit can come out of this.

lagrue

Davor wrote: »

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

I have asked for refunds on items I bought, as they no longer look like advertised. I have had no response.

No response yet is because the lawyers are getting involved now and they have to see what they say first. So they can't comment either way right now. I am sure they don't want to give out refunds, but if it's not "sold as advertised" the lawyers are seeing if refunds have to be put out and the chances of a Class Action Lawsuit can come out of this.

I highly doubt anybody is spending $1000s of dollars on a lawyer to get refunds lol... cutting their loses would be more cost effective.

That's not to mention this intended to return - if ZOS pleads in a court that they're just fixing the feature and intend to reimpliment then they won't be forced to pay up.

Davor

lagrue wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

I have asked for refunds on items I bought, as they no longer look like advertised. I have had no response.

No response yet is because the lawyers are getting involved now and they have to see what they say first. So they can't comment either way right now. I am sure they don't want to give out refunds, but if it's not "sold as advertised" the lawyers are seeing if refunds have to be put out and the chances of a Class Action Lawsuit can come out of this.

I highly doubt anybody is spending $1000s of dollars on a lawyer to get refunds lol... cutting their loses would be more cost effective.

That's not to mention this intended to return - if ZOS pleads in a court that they're just fixing the feature and intend to reimpliment then they won't be forced to pay up.

I am not saying anyone is spending money on a lawyer to sue. I am saying Zenimax's Lawyers are looking into it to see if refunds need to be given out. I am going by the assumption that this is staying. So when Zenimax claimed ESO was HDR compatible and now it's not, what are they on the hook for?

As I said I am sure Zenimax doesn't want to give refunds but since there is no reply saying "Sorry no refunds" I am guessing they are finding out what they can or can't do. So once the Lawyers say "Zenimax you are OK, no refunds need to be given you are safe" or "Zenimax you better give refunds because this can become a class action lawsuit" or " Legally you need to give refunds, but it will take the individual's more time and money that it's really worth to do. So the few who try, it will be cheaper to give them the refund then. Most people will not bother with the time, effort and money to do so."

So that is why I think Zenimax didn't say anything to the person's request for a refund, either way. They are seeing what their options are. Maybe they are also seeing if a "quick fix" can be implemented so waiting for that as well.

I am not saying I am correct just my guess.

Audrena

Wow, this thread escalated quickly

Matt's explanation of what happened was appreciated, though I'm not sure "normalizing" lighting and colour values should have been the goal at all - HDR is not the same as SDR, and can display a vastly wider range of light and a vastly richer colour palette, and you should EXPECT the result to look very markedly different to the SDR version.

To me, HDR in ESO captured far more realistic lighting than the standard PC game does, and to be honest, I thought the occasional case of a very colour-saturated object (the pink flowered trees in Vulkhel Guard for example) were a deliberate fantasy design choice that we were just missing out on with the PC version

What we see post-patch looks to me, like a SDR image displayed in HDR mode - for an example, take a look at the title card of any HDR PS4 game as it starts up. It'll come up in SDR first, then when the TV gets commanded to switch to HDR, you see the same image again - but displayed incorrectly, as it's an SDR image being displayed in a HDR space. That is what the game looks like now - there's no range of contrast in the lighting, there's no extreme darks or extreme brights at all, just a beige colour palette that has no "pop" to it at all.

Now, the new patch for Destiny 2 dropped last week - bear with me on this - and when I fired it up for the first time in ages, I though "oh, they've almost done an ESO and made HDR look all flat and lifeless!" But then I went into options and saw that they had added a new brightness calibration menu - two screens, one for whites and one for blacks. You're shown three logos and asked to adjust the brightness control on screen until the left hand logo is invisible and the middle one barely visible. You then repeat that for black levels. And once done, BAM there's your HDR is all its glory.

Previously, that game just used a single "HDR brightness" control, and the end result was "too much HDR" on some displays and not enough on others.

It's not a "saturation" control that's needed (though if the devs have actually turned base saturation down they might want to undo that change). It's correct brightness calibration so the game's dynamic range fits within the dynamic range of the individual display (FWIW, my display is an LG OLED55B7, with peak brightness of about 850-900 nits and black level of absolute zero - this is a VERY capable HDR display). The game needs to know the lowest black and highest white levels the display can do.

In the meantime, though, let's revert this change while something better is worked out, hey? I don't think I can handle 3 more months of that grey grey world.

Oh and for those who objected to what they saw as "acid trip colours" or whatever, you could always just turn HDR off and your problem is solved. There really should be a HDR on/off toggle in the game options anyway.

Beardimus

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

The new monster weapon sets look dreadful post patch with the broken HDR!!!!

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

The new monster weapon sets look dreadful post patch with the broken HDR!!!!

Agreed. Message customer support, state how they don't look right and are different to what you have seen, they can refund items for sure.

happyhughes2001

Audrena wrote: »

Wow, this thread escalated quickly

Matt's explanation of what happened was appreciated, though I'm not sure "normalizing" lighting and colour values should have been the goal at all - HDR is not the same as SDR, and can display a vastly wider range of light and a vastly richer colour palette, and you should EXPECT the result to look very markedly different to the SDR version.

To me, HDR in ESO captured far more realistic lighting than the standard PC game does, and to be honest, I thought the occasional case of a very colour-saturated object (the pink flowered trees in Vulkhel Guard for example) were a deliberate fantasy design choice that we were just missing out on with the PC version

What we see post-patch looks to me, like a SDR image displayed in HDR mode - for an example, take a look at the title card of any HDR PS4 game as it starts up. It'll come up in SDR first, then when the TV gets commanded to switch to HDR, you see the same image again - but displayed incorrectly, as it's an SDR image being displayed in a HDR space. That is what the game looks like now - there's no range of contrast in the lighting, there's no extreme darks or extreme brights at all, just a beige colour palette that has no "pop" to it at all.

Now, the new patch for Destiny 2 dropped last week - bear with me on this - and when I fired it up for the first time in ages, I though "oh, they've almost done an ESO and made HDR look all flat and lifeless!" But then I went into options and saw that they had added a new brightness calibration menu - two screens, one for whites and one for blacks. You're shown three logos and asked to adjust the brightness control on screen until the left hand logo is invisible and the middle one barely visible. You then repeat that for black levels. And once done, BAM there's your HDR is all its glory.

Previously, that game just used a single "HDR brightness" control, and the end result was "too much HDR" on some displays and not enough on others.

It's not a "saturation" control that's needed (though if the devs have actually turned base saturation down they might want to undo that change). It's correct brightness calibration so the game's dynamic range fits within the dynamic range of the individual display (FWIW, my display is an LG OLED55B7, with peak brightness of about 850-900 nits and black level of absolute zero - this is a VERY capable HDR display). The game needs to know the lowest black and highest white levels the display can do.

In the meantime, though, let's revert this change while something better is worked out, hey? I don't think I can handle 3 more months of that grey grey world.

Oh and for those who objected to what they saw as "acid trip colours" or whatever, you could always just turn HDR off and your problem is solved. There really should be a HDR on/off toggle in the game options anyway.

@ZOS_MattFiror please read.

happyhughes2001

LadyLethalla wrote: »

My Psijic Senche was glorious pre-patch and is now just a ghost

Yeah a lot of the cool stuff now looks absolutely terrible.

NewBlacksmurf

dotme wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

HDR for this game was not done in a way that provided HDR similar to any other game on console or PC.
What we got was oversaturated effects under a trigger that our devices interpreted as HDR, however from many discussions and comparisons, whatever the developers did on this game was far from the assumed standard.

I can accept that. Based on the colors present in load screens, maps and HUD, it seems that the in-game saturation has now gone too far the other way. You come out of a colorful load screen into a pretty bland world where green grass isn't green, orange torches are the same color as yellow candles, and all colors are severely muted.

Hence my suggestion of putting that non-functioning HDR Brightness to good use. Let it adjust color levels. Everyone can set theirs the way they like it, without affecting the well-balanced loadscreen images, HUD, maps etc. Just a suggestion, but the game really feels like a shadow of its former self visually after the latest update and it's a shame.

@dotme

It’s likely the colors are wrong in all modes...it’s the same team or was the same team I think per the Xbox one x eso live show.

I’m not against your suggestion but I am against them doing half-a work but charging aaa prices + free to play prices to play their broken game.

Rex-Umbra

In defense of the change my wife is a casual player and the old HDR always made her motion sick so needed to disable it when she played. She doesn't get motion sick with it on in the game currently.

happyhughes2001

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

In defense of the change my wife is a casual player and the old HDR always made her motion sick so needed to disable it when she played. She doesn't get motion sick with it on in the game currently.

Options are good. We are all stuck with this current dull state.

It should be reverted to the way it was, and people like your wife who don’t like it can turn HDR off.

Everybody wins.

ForMalacath

Lake wrote: »

I don't see how getting the Art Director involved would have stopped the patch from going out.

ESO is one of the most visually gray, overcast and dull MMOs on the market (on purpose, presumably to look "realistic"), and I need ReShade on PC to make it bearable. They would have OK'ed it for sure.

Have you spent your entire time in Stormhaven? I couldn't disagree more! Places like Summerset, Vvardenfell and Stonefalls (even in the ash covered crags) are (were) absolutely bursting with vibrancy and colour! HDR made it look absolutely glorious!

zsban

I play ESO on PC (no HDR there) on a color calibrated wide gamut quantum dot display. I don't feel that eso is overcast, gray or dull at all. I've just done a part of the main quest line in Summerset where I travelled into a dark cave full with glowing plants, and it was absolutely stunning!

My rule of thumb would be that if someone puts a PC version of ESO next to a console with HDR, the latter should not look worse. If it's not the case, then just revert the change and don't worry about people who might prefer the new look. HDR should never look worse than SDR on PC.

zsban

Also my feeling is that the load screens should be the reference for HDR. As I understand, UI elements and the loading screens are SDR images, upscaled into the HDR range by the post processing shader. So any rendered content should not be mapped too differently.

(Tbh, I'm not sure if ESO has a true HDR render path, and not just doing some post process tone mapping before clamping the excess brightness.)

happyhughes2001

Has there been any previous occasions when the game suffered a visual downgrade to this extent?

If so was it corrected?

I have been here for about 3 years and I can’t recall such a significant downgrade.