HDR broke on xbox since wolfhunter? EDIT: Patch coming early october

Krayl

@ZOS_GinaBruno

dotme wrote: »

JahneeO wrote: »

I'd like to see this comparison at the same time of day

Well, last night I got lucky. Here ya go...




Now granted, beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I prefer vegetation and lighting that pops a little. We lost that with the update, and it's such a shame. The least they could have done is made the HDR Brightness slider function to allow us to choose our own intensity level. Instead, we were given a grey mess with no options. You can't increase the color on the TV without over-saturating maps, HUD and loadscreens. The transition from load screen to world feels like going from full color to sepia now.

The first screen shot from BEFORE looks BETTER because the colorless stone of the architecture is properly reflecting some of the blue color of the sky at your eye and giving things a blue caste - that's how it's SUPPOSED to look; thats how REAL LIFE works.

In the second shot this is either no longer happening, or the color has been so hosed that it's not even noticeable.

The top shot is right, the second shot his hot garbage that we are stuck with now.

Davor

The bottom pic is what you have now? That is bad. Being use to something and going to that? Horrible.

While I don't have an HDR TV I tried on my PC going to minimum settings to see the difference. It is Horrible. Not the bottom pic horrible but I can understand and feel for the people. Once you are use to something and for that to be taken away it's hard.

I go from PC to Xbox and now I see my Xbox not as good where before I thought it was really good. So it goes to show you when you are use to something, no matter how good it look before, going back to after an enhancement it doesn't look as good.

Also the silence over this. A disgrace. I guess Zenimax is quiet because then need to get ready to sue someone else. After all they just won what a half billion dollars. What do they care for their customers now?

Cybercore_Death

Krayl wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, apologies for the lack of updates. We were out of town for PAX and just got back to the office today.

The current HDR visuals will stay the way they are for now. However, we’re going to look into a compromise on the asset saturation between the old version and the current one that will be implemented in a future update. We don’t want to rush another change, and we’ll give you a heads up when we have a better idea of timing.

This is completely unacceptable. I literally bought a PS4 pro and a 4k TV to play this game with HDR visuals.

I will happily call you a liar at this point. You bought a PS4 Pro and a 4k TV to play the game in 4K. If you just wanted HDR then you would have bought a standard PS4 given they have HDR support.

blunned

I noticed another thread on this forum related to the ZOS response to this issue has been closed without explanation. Most likely related to there already being a thread on the topic but nonetheless there was no explanation. I think they are starting to realize this is not going to be the usual simple wait it out and everyone will forget about it. I appreciate the relative civility on this post so far and I implore it to continue so there is no excuse to close this thread down. The response by ZOS to this issue has been inappropriate and highlights a much larger problem of general apathy toward the console player base. This needs to be rectified either through communication or actions/fixes (like a normal company would address a normal problem). Ignoring this will not make it go away and we need to make that clear.

happyhughes2001

blunned wrote: »

I noticed another thread on this forum related to the ZOS response to this issue has been closed without explanation. Most likely related to there already being a thread on the topic but nonetheless there was no explanation. I think they are starting to realize this is not going to be the usual simple wait it out and everyone will forget about it. I appreciate the relative civility on this post so far and I implore it to continue so there is no excuse to close this thread down. The response by ZOS to this issue has been inappropriate and highlights a much larger problem of general apathy toward the console player base. This needs to be rectified either through communication or actions/fixes (like a normal company would address a normal problem). Ignoring this will not make it go away and we need to make that clear.

Well said.

It’s so disappointing to get such an inferior product to what you have been used to playing.

And the responses and lack of communication is shocking!

dotme

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

I will happily call you a liar at this point. You bought a PS4 Pro and a 4k TV to play the game in 4K. If you just wanted HDR then you would have bought a standard PS4 given they have HDR support.

What if you want HDR and 1080 Enhanced (better shadows, water reflections etc) instead of 4K?

Because that's how my setup runs, and until this last update ESO looked fantastic. Am I a liar too?

happyhughes2001

ZOS_AntonioP
7:07PM
Staff Post
Hello everyone,

This post is to let you know that we've gone ahead and closed this thread. The reason being that there is already an active thread under the same subject. Feel free to continue this discussion on the thread here. Along with this please be sure to stay constructive and respectful with the Forum Rules in mind.

Thank you for understanding.

———————————————————

Let’s keep this civil guys. They will look for any reasons to close these threads.

Jayman1000

shack80 wrote: »

Since the new patch me and at least couple of friends have lost HDR? Something we are missing or is it just broken?

can you post a screenshot of how it looks?

Krayl

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

I will happily call you a liar at this point. You bought a PS4 Pro and a 4k TV to play the game in 4K. If you just wanted HDR then you would have bought a standard PS4 given they have HDR support.

I guess you haven't been TV shopping lately. 4K is the standard these days for any large TV, so if I am bothering to upgrade the TV why would I not upgrade to a pro, which is also faster performance.

blunned

dotme wrote: »

JahneeO wrote: »

I'd like to see this comparison at the same time of day

Well, last night I got lucky. Here ya go...




Now granted, beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I prefer vegetation and lighting that pops a little. We lost that with the update, and it's such a shame. The least they could have done is made the HDR Brightness slider function to allow us to choose our own intensity level. Instead, we were given a grey mess with no options. You can't increase the color on the TV without over-saturating maps, HUD and loadscreens. The transition from load screen to world feels like going from full color to sepia now.

Thank you for posting this. It definitely highlights a good example of how drastic and subpar the changes were.

happyhughes2001

The downgrade is huge. It’s so disappointing.

And the communication has been terrible to be honest.

It was originally unintentional consequences, but now it is being left as is.

And we are left hoping for a fix.

What kind of company unintentionally severely downgrades its game graphically, and then doesn’t try and fix it?

It doesn’t make any sense.

dotme

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

What kind of company unintentionally severely downgrades its game graphically, and then doesn’t try and fix it?

It doesn’t make any sense.

It does, if you consider perhaps that the major forces behind ESO live in a bit of a "PC platform" echo chamber. I don't know how big their staff is these days, but I'll wager few of them (if any) play the game on console for several hours every single day.

MMOs are everywhere on PC. On console, they're not - ESO occupies a very rare and special place in the list of available console games, but Zenimax doesn't ever seem to really capitalize on it. Not just with this issue, but with numerous console-specific problems over the past year or two. Imagine the revenue and player participation if they could just get it right...

In this case, we've lost a feature and visuals that probably 90% of the company has never experienced, so it's understandable that they may not think it's all that important.

happyhughes2001

dotme wrote: »

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

What kind of company unintentionally severely downgrades its game graphically, and then doesn’t try and fix it?

It doesn’t make any sense.

It does, if you consider perhaps that the major forces behind ESO live in a bit of a "PC platform" echo chamber. I don't know how big their staff is these days, but I'll wager few of them (if any) play the game on console for several hours every single day.

MMOs are everywhere on PC. On console, they're not - ESO occupies a very rare and special place in the list of available console games, but Zenimax doesn't ever seem to really capitalize on it. Not just with this issue, but with numerous console-specific problems over the past year or two. Imagine the revenue and player participation if they could just get it right...

In this case, we've lost a feature and visuals that probably 90% of the company has never experienced, so it's understandable that they may not think it's all that important.

I would have thought there would be a sense of pride in the work.

That you would want the best possible product that showcases your game to look at it’s best.

Baffles me that they don’t seem bothered that the premium console experience has been totally diminished graphically.

Acrolas

"However, we’re going to look into a compromise on the asset saturation between the old version and the current one that will be implemented in a future update."

It really is a saturation issue. I can see how people would be otherwise happy with the brightness and dynamic lighting if the color vibrancy were reduced.




The compromise is probably going to try to keep the brightness but make sure light sources reflect a proportional effect of white light as opposed to overemphasizing the hue.

dotme

Acrolas wrote: »

It really is a saturation issue. I can see how people would be otherwise happy with the brightness and dynamic lighting if the color vibrancy were reduced.

Wow - That's great work! Thanks a ton for that. Very interesting.

So @ZOS_GinaBruno - how hard would it be to re-purpose the existing "HDR Brightness" slider (which seems to have no effect on anything) to be a "HDR Saturation" slider instead?

Boy if Zeni could pull that off, and soon, I think we'd have a winner. If the users can adjust their own color intensity level via that currently useless slider, I suspect that would make everyone happy.

N0TPLAYER2

This is a game breaker for me and many others. I’m basically not playing because of it.

For you pc guys who don’t get it, try dropping your ultra settings to the lowest possible, and then dim all color and lighting out of that. That’s th difference we’re facing. It’s more drastic than most of you think.

Krayl

dotme wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It really is a saturation issue. I can see how people would be otherwise happy with the brightness and dynamic lighting if the color vibrancy were reduced.

Wow - That's great work! Thanks a ton for that. Very interesting.

So @ZOS_GinaBruno - how hard would it be to re-purpose the existing "HDR Brightness" slider (which seems to have no effect on anything) to be a "HDR Saturation" slider instead?

Boy if Zeni could pull that off, and soon, I think we'd have a winner. If the users can adjust their own color intensity level via that currently useless slider, I suspect that would make everyone happy.

They are having a hard time even admitting something is broken, let alone fixing it. According to them a "few assets" had to be changed.

happyhughes2001

dotme wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It really is a saturation issue. I can see how people would be otherwise happy with the brightness and dynamic lighting if the color vibrancy were reduced.

Wow - That's great work! Thanks a ton for that. Very interesting.

So @ZOS_GinaBruno - how hard would it be to re-purpose the existing "HDR Brightness" slider (which seems to have no effect on anything) to be a "HDR Saturation" slider instead?

Boy if Zeni could pull that off, and soon, I think we'd have a winner. If the users can adjust their own color intensity level via that currently useless slider, I suspect that would make everyone happy.

Were people unhappy prior to the update about the HDR? I hadn’t heard anything.

It just looks plain horrible and dull now!

Krayl

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

Were people unhappy prior to the update about the HDR? I hadn’t heard anything.

My guess is someone in some meeting commented that something looked oversaturated, probably while looking at the game on some crummy conference room projector, and so they decided make the whole game look like crap.

dotme

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

Were people unhappy prior to the update about the HDR? I hadn’t heard anything.

Yes, some people who didn't calibrate their TVs. That's fine - I'm sure there are some HDR users who like the new look. Let them keep it. Let us adjust it. It's simple. There's already an in-game brightness control. So just give us an in-game saturation control too.

And do it before next update. Problem solved for everyone. Currently, the desaturation that happens when transitioning from a load screen to the game world is jarring, and just plain dull.

Acrolas

N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »

For you pc guys who don’t get it, try dropping your ultra settings to the lowest possible, and then dim all color and lighting out of that. That’s th difference we’re facing. It’s more drastic than most of you think.

Feels a little bit hyperbolic.

dotme

Acrolas wrote: »

Feels a little bit hyperbolic.

Part of the issue is that what looks over-saturated on one of the images I posted, actually isn't - when viewed on an HDR TV. Sony even puts a disclaimer when you capture a video in HDR to the effect that it won't look okay when played back on a non-HDR screen. Same goes for these screenshots. So what might look normal on your monitor can look extremely grey on an HDR TV, and screencaps that appear to have too much color look perfect on an HDR set.

What happened here is that ZOS dialed back the saturation to the point where the game when played on an HDR capable TV using a PS4 or XBox in HDR mode looks pretty colorless.

Except for the maps, load screens and HUD. Those look perfectly fine.

So it's not good for people who use HDR here. The colors are almost gone from the game, and those who spend money on hardware are understandably not thrilled about that.

LadyLethalla

I'm wondering how @ZOS_RobGarrett, a professed console user, could have missed this change...

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, apologies for the lack of updates. We were out of town for PAX and just got back to the office today.

The current HDR visuals will stay the way they are for now. However, we’re going to look into a compromise on the asset saturation between the old version and the current one that will be implemented in a future update. We don’t want to rush another change, and we’ll give you a heads up when we have a better idea of timing.

Ugh... now I'm getting annoyed. If the faded colours weren't bad enough and certain people can't see some AOEs like the gold ones, the lighting just looks awful. As an example, the bleeding off the bonfires in King's Haven Pass delve.
Okay, yes some of the assets were a little oversaturated but hell WHO ASKED for this to change?
A lot of very angry players just want something that doesn't negate expensive hardware purchases. Including me. And yes I too am starting to think well hey maybe I should cancel my sub when RDR2 comes out.

NewBlacksmurf

dotme wrote: »

happyhughes2001 wrote: »

What kind of company unintentionally severely downgrades its game graphically, and then doesn’t try and fix it?

It doesn’t make any sense.

It does, if you consider perhaps that the major forces behind ESO live in a bit of a "PC platform" echo chamber. I don't know how big their staff is these days, but I'll wager few of them (if any) play the game on console for several hours every single day.

MMOs are everywhere on PC. On console, they're not - ESO occupies a very rare and special place in the list of available console games, but Zenimax doesn't ever seem to really capitalize on it. Not just with this issue, but with numerous console-specific problems over the past year or two. Imagine the revenue and player participation if they could just get it right...

In this case, we've lost a feature and visuals that probably 90% of the company has never experienced, so it's understandable that they may not think it's all that important.

@dotme
I don't believe that is what is to be taken from the communications we've been provided...I get why its assumed but that not it.

The actual issue is this.

HDR for this game was not done in a way that provided HDR similar to any other game on console or PC.
What we got was oversaturated effects under a trigger that our devices interpreted as HDR, however from many discussions and comparisons, whatever the developers did on this game was far from the assumed standard.

Also consider with the Xbox One X version of this game...it says 4k but the assets are no different from the non-4k versions.

I can't say what they did but I can say its not just a console thing...I'm on both platforms and the file sizes, and other stuff don't align with other games that are on both platforms.

Beardimus

dotme wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It really is a saturation issue. I can see how people would be otherwise happy with the brightness and dynamic lighting if the color vibrancy were reduced.

Wow - That's great work! Thanks a ton for that. Very interesting.

So @ZOS_GinaBruno - how hard would it be to re-purpose the existing "HDR Brightness" slider (which seems to have no effect on anything) to be a "HDR Saturation" slider instead?

Boy if Zeni could pull that off, and soon, I think we'd have a winner. If the users can adjust their own color intensity level via that currently useless slider, I suspect that would make everyone happy.

Great point

Those that apparently like it (probably unoptimised TV colour settings in factory default mode) can turn it down or off. Those that want it returned, can.

I can only assume it has other effects I.e. Creates issues for the game as I cant see why they would bother changing this. Or settle for turning it off totally, as that's drastic.

Beardimus

I actually feel for Gina and team as I don't feel we getting the full / complete story, and stuff is being relayed to us. Full on transparency on what's going on & why might sate us better.

NewBlacksmurf

Acrolas wrote: »

"However, we’re going to look into a compromise on the asset saturation between the old version and the current one that will be implemented in a future update."

It really is a saturation issue. I can see how people would be otherwise happy with the brightness and dynamic lighting if the color vibrancy were reduced.




The compromise is probably going to try to keep the brightness but make sure light sources reflect a proportional effect of white light as opposed to overemphasizing the hue.

@Acrolas

Spot on and your visual is perfect...
Some of us basically were using a separate HDR TV setting save to adjust similar effects to unsaturated and enable the HDR slider to some extent but it still was obviously a developer issue and questionable at the least to what they did/didn't do.

dotme

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

HDR for this game was not done in a way that provided HDR similar to any other game on console or PC.
What we got was oversaturated effects under a trigger that our devices interpreted as HDR, however from many discussions and comparisons, whatever the developers did on this game was far from the assumed standard.

I can accept that. Based on the colors present in load screens, maps and HUD, it seems that the in-game saturation has now gone too far the other way. You come out of a colorful load screen into a pretty bland world where green grass isn't green, orange torches are the same color as yellow candles, and all colors are severely muted.

Hence my suggestion of putting that non-functioning HDR Brightness to good use. Let it adjust color levels. Everyone can set theirs the way they like it, without affecting the well-balanced loadscreen images, HUD, maps etc. Just a suggestion, but the game really feels like a shadow of its former self visually after the latest update and it's a shame.

Krayl

HRD was added to this game but it wasn't developed with HDR in mind since when it was under development, that wasn't really hugely well-researched tech. I think we get that.

So, the HDR setup we had wasn't ideal or perfect by any stretch.

But it still looked pretty dang good and now it looks bad.

So, now I just turn it off and have to re-enable it when I decide to play games that haven't inexplicably and intentionally made their games look markedly worse.

MiguZ

ZOS probably wont give us a fix before the next patch cuz microsoft is taking money for every patch that is applied to the game. What they SHOULD do is just admit they made a mistake and just suck up it and do the emergency maintenance for this. On pc there has been 8 maintenances to fix anything and everything that got broken in the big patch. We get one every 3 months no matter how broken the game gets. Thats not fair ZOS and u know it.