Request: Make Mages' Fury a real execute

Avran_Sylt

@SilverWF

Also, No, it's +354% damage for the execute.

It's two simultaneous damage instances when cast upon an enemy below 20% HP.

The 732 Damage instance, and another, separate, 2591 damage instance.

732 + 254% (1,859) = 2,591 = Not what happens.
732 + 354% (2,591) = 3,323 = Is what happens.

SilverWF

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@SilverWF

Also, No, it's +354% damage for the execute.

It's two simultaneous damage instances when cast upon an enemy below 20% HP.

The 732 Damage instance, and another, separate, 2591 damage instance.

732 + 254% (1,859) = 2,591 = Not what happens.
732 + 354% (2,591) = 3,323 = Is what happens.

Yes, you are right here, sorry

But do you get what OP is asking? Coz I didn't - now Mage Fury works exactly as NB's one, with some exclusions, that I mentioned above

ak_pvp

This is fair. One morph for PvE and one for PvP.

+1 from me.

Apherius

kikkehs wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Why does anyone need a buff in PvE? Seriously

And why arent you using it below 20% to execute, it's a dps gain.

In end game trial runs sorcs have dropped execute as its a dps loss over normal rotation.

Why ? Are you sure force pulse/crystal proc deal more damage than fury spam below 20% of the boss health ? ( In both case we refresh liquid/wall )

All sorc I see in engame ( a few, Magblade dominate the PVE content ) still use the execute except some underpowered full dot build with HA.

SammyFable

kikkehs wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

But as an example. Its decent still on a 3mill or a 6mill dummy. But on current trial bosseas as vAS and vCR. A sorc will not start executing before 5% hp, while NBs have been spamming theirs for 20% hp allready.

lolwut?

Sorcs start executing at 20%, not at 5%. Why on earth would they wait until 5% to execute?

The sorc execute is still a DPS gain in execute. Which probably explains why I still see sorc executes in trials runs.

The only situation in which sorcs will forgo execute is if they can't afford the bar space. But who runs a petsorc these days in trials anyway?

Wrong, as a endgame sorc your eather a asylum staff force pulse spammer for debuff or we go with ele wep. First build your team dont want your executes, they want the debuffs.

And with ele wep rotation executing before 5% is a dps loss.

Ever played Sorc with Ele weapon and execute? Ever REALLY looked at a raid parse with this? From what you describe about Sorc execute that doesn't seem to be the case. Here, I'll give you a raid parse (won't be top DPS as it was still a "learning the fight" phase):

Now look at both Ele weapon and Endless Fury. Look at the max hits. About 30k for Ele weapon and about 40k for Endless Fury. Wait no, it's actually about 50k for Endless Fury, as it has two damage components (as others stated already). So why on earth would ANYONE keep using Ele weapon instead of using Fury on a target that's below 20% health?
Do you also understand that we don't drop our DOTs? Same goes for any class btw.

MashmalloMan

Based on numbers I found online...

Impale = 409 * 300% under 25% = 1636 Total
Endless Fury = 311 + 1094 under 20% = 1405 Total (the base and the execute proc dmg are added together)

Nightblade arguably has the best setup in the game because they can pull the most end game pve dps and many people have been complaining about their spotlight in the meta. The execute dmg between the skills are very similar with about 14-15% less dmg. Take in to account the passive execute sorcs have (RNG based), it may even give you more dmg in pve then it does a nightblade in the execute phase.

The thing is.. is it worth a slot when you have a passive execute so strong as a mag sorc? Why not save the bar space and use another skill that increases all dmg done for 100% of the fight. I think this is the main issue. It isn't a substantial increase in DMG worth slotting for only 20% of a fight when you can buff 100% of a fight with your other skills using a combo like bound aegis + mage light.

I think the DMG is fine, the main issue is the bar space and passives making other options more appealing.

I will agree both morphs are WAY too similar for mages wrath. I'd like to add that stam sorc needs some love too. If they can't find meaningful ways to make morphs a decision that matters, give the stam class a morph.

Here are some other skills in similar scenarios. Crystal Blast, Shattering Prison, Mages Wrath morphs, Deadric Tomb, Twilight Tormentor, Overload both Morphs and Charged Atronach.

I'm not saying to change all of them, but there are SO many useless morphs that magicka sorcs barely use and it isn't rocket science. Take 1-3 morphs and throw stamina a bone. Main complaint is the passive execute in pvp... Reduce that dmg, add some dmg to mages wrath, BAM people will want to slot it and you can stop complaining about RNG based executes in pvp. This would hurt the stam toons though, so throw something extra too. If no class spammable, give us a class skill that provides minor force so we don't need rearming trap.

Just had to add my input, every time I see class ideas about sorc, people are focussed on the magicka side.

code65536

kikkehs wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

But as an example. Its decent still on a 3mill or a 6mill dummy. But on current trial bosseas as vAS and vCR. A sorc will not start executing before 5% hp, while NBs have been spamming theirs for 20% hp allready.

lolwut?

Sorcs start executing at 20%, not at 5%. Why on earth would they wait until 5% to execute?

The sorc execute is still a DPS gain in execute. Which probably explains why I still see sorc executes in trials runs.

The only situation in which sorcs will forgo execute is if they can't afford the bar space. But who runs a petsorc these days in trials anyway?

Wrong, as a endgame sorc your eather a asylum staff force pulse spammer for debuff or we go with ele wep. First build your team dont want your executes, they want the debuffs.

And with ele wep rotation executing before 5% is a dps loss.

So... I guess all the sorcs that I know must be doing it wrong, huh? I'll be sure to let them all know. Also, just because you want to keep the Asylum debuff up doesn't mean you don't execute at all. In execute phase in vAS, the magblades still have to keep their funnel heals up, but that certainly doesn't mean they drop Impale.

kikkehs wrote: »

Compare it too any other execute.
I want a real execute please..

Sure, I'll do that comparison. So comparing the tooltips on my magblade's Impale versus my magsorc's Endless Fury--yes, with all the execute bonuses added in--the magblade comes out ahead... by 10%.

Sure, the sorc execute is a bit weaker, but I think you're the only one in this thread making such hyperbolic claims that a 10% damage difference disqualifies it from being a "real" execute.

As I and someone else alluded to, the only reason sorcs forgo their execute is if they lack the bar space. But that's really only a problem for petsorcs.

bardx86

Increase the damage and make it go off at 30% health, problem solved.

Joy_Division

Valrien wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@kikkehs

Could you compare it to any other execute?

2591/732 = 3.54

Meaning the proc is an additional 354% damage...

So... What's your problem? Is it the wording?

Well, it's additional 254% damage, but generally you are right - it acts in the same way (and damage scaling) as Assasin's Blade
I din't understand what OP are asking for and, pretty sure, he didn't understand that too

Valrien wrote: »

Sounds like you've never played Sorc (at least properly) if you use the execute in this current patch.

The problem with it is it needs a damage buff in it's current state, and theres still a slight delay in PvE which kinda just makes it feel bad to use...thing is you don't wanna directly buff the damage and proc speed though in it's current state because that would get Sorc nerfed even harder in PvP

Because...you know, that happens whenever Sorc gets a single kill. All aboard the nerf train, whoo whooo.

I see no reasons to NOT use such a strong skill

Delay? Yes, ~100-300ms.
Is it huge? Not at all.
Does it may cause troubles? Lol, why?
Is it better or worse than NB's one? NB can start spam his execute at 25% - Sorcs at 20%. But Sorcs has AOE part - this is useful too. Also, Sorcs actually 2 hits - this can be useful to procs either.

And yet it doesn't really do enough damage to be worth using.

Problem with this is a damage buff will cause Sorcs to get super nerfed in PvP because people will hate it.

So it would be better to make it function as a regular execute and just buff the initial damage, and leave one morph as it is for PvP.

Yes, I very much understand what I'm asking for. The skill is very uncomfortable to use, and isn't really worth it

In general it would be great if a lot of skills had a "PvP version" so that they could be buffed and nerfed separately without hurting either crowd

Uncomfortable? It's mechanically the easiest execute in the game to use.

No thanks, I don't want the execute turned into a watered-down by otherwise identical version of a NB skill. That pretty much describes PvE sorcerers as it is.

Valrien

Joy_Division wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@kikkehs

Could you compare it to any other execute?

2591/732 = 3.54

Meaning the proc is an additional 354% damage...

So... What's your problem? Is it the wording?

Well, it's additional 254% damage, but generally you are right - it acts in the same way (and damage scaling) as Assasin's Blade
I din't understand what OP are asking for and, pretty sure, he didn't understand that too

Valrien wrote: »

Sounds like you've never played Sorc (at least properly) if you use the execute in this current patch.

The problem with it is it needs a damage buff in it's current state, and theres still a slight delay in PvE which kinda just makes it feel bad to use...thing is you don't wanna directly buff the damage and proc speed though in it's current state because that would get Sorc nerfed even harder in PvP

Because...you know, that happens whenever Sorc gets a single kill. All aboard the nerf train, whoo whooo.

I see no reasons to NOT use such a strong skill

Delay? Yes, ~100-300ms.
Is it huge? Not at all.
Does it may cause troubles? Lol, why?
Is it better or worse than NB's one? NB can start spam his execute at 25% - Sorcs at 20%. But Sorcs has AOE part - this is useful too. Also, Sorcs actually 2 hits - this can be useful to procs either.

And yet it doesn't really do enough damage to be worth using.

Problem with this is a damage buff will cause Sorcs to get super nerfed in PvP because people will hate it.

So it would be better to make it function as a regular execute and just buff the initial damage, and leave one morph as it is for PvP.

Yes, I very much understand what I'm asking for. The skill is very uncomfortable to use, and isn't really worth it

In general it would be great if a lot of skills had a "PvP version" so that they could be buffed and nerfed separately without hurting either crowd

Uncomfortable? It's mechanically the easiest execute in the game to use.

No thanks, I don't want the execute turned into a watered-down by otherwise identical version of a NB skill. That pretty much describes PvE sorcerers as it is.

Well...

You're not wrong...

Avran_Sylt

@SilverWF

Honestly can't say I completely know what the OP was originally asking.

My guess is that they didn't understand how the ability works completely.

code65536

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@SilverWF

Honestly can't say I completely know what the OP was originally asking.

My guess is that they didn't understand how the ability works completely.

Let's go through the points in this thread one by one.

1. Sorc execute is inferior to NB execute in PvE. Yes, sorc execute starts 5% later and, when comparing my magblade and magsorc in their PvE gear, sorc execute does 10% less damage.
2. Sorc execute is powerful in PvP because you can preload it and make it deliver delayed burst.
3. The Mage's Wrath morph is not very interesting or compelling, and there isn't much reason to pick this morph.
4. Sorc execute is so undesirable in PvE that nobody uses it.

Point #4 is hyperbolic and is flat-out wrong. But points 1-3 are valid. If the ability to preload damage is removed from the Mage's Wrath morph, it opens that morph up for other adjustments, such as a (slight) buff to bring it in line damage-wise with nightblade execute. But I do emphasize slight because the current sorc execute is only a smidge weaker than the nightblade execute.

Avran_Sylt

@code65536

I mean, if you want it to feel very wrath-like in end-game Trial parses, you could make it so that at an even lower threshold, say 10%, it auto-procs the Implosion passive. Or something similar with interaction with Implosion, to differentiate it more from NB execute.