Punish players who use macros

rotaugen454

I should macro emotes. I can never type them fast enough to fit the situation.

Emma_Overload

DuskMarine wrote: »

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After removing a handful of posts, we must ask that posts from here be kept civil and constructive.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

@ZOS_GregoryV could we get a statement on what zos actually thinks about this though? macros kindve ruin the whole skill factor of the game tbh.

ZOS has already commented on this a couple times over the years. The jist is that if you use a 3rd party software to automate multiple actions, you are cheating. So macros and bots are forbidden.

Shadow-Fighter

BuddyAces wrote: »

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After removing a handful of posts, we must ask that posts from here be kept civil and constructive.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

What does the V in your name mean!?! It is driving me bonkers. I demand an explanation at once!

V for Vendetta

adeptusminor

I want to buy another account and macro it to ele-drain target dummies for me so I don't have to bother other people in my guild while perfecting my rotation. I would actually purchase FROM THE CROWN STORE an assistant that does that.

SakuraRush

ezio45 wrote: »

what are marcos

Essentially an action or series of actions performed with a single or alternate input.

In the before times mmorpgs encouraged macroing. Unattended macroing however was against the rules. That was when you have a macro set to fire on repeat without you being there. The same macros were fine as long as you pushed the button.

Fast forward to today and the players of games seem to associate macros with cheating. A macro in ESO would not perform actions faster than the game allows.

A macro would not fire automatically, though people used an add on to do this in the past. That would be something I could easily see as cheating.

Simply put macroing in ESO gives a player no advantage over one that doesn't.

Ananoriel

I haven't heard of many macro-users in ESO to be honest. I know it is a big thing in other MMOrpgs but not in ESO. Maybe it is just a small amount. I don't know where you base the 80% on, because that should be a superhigh amount.

The_Brosteen

Never got accused of using macros, then I switched to PC. Especially when I was lower cp I got alot of hate tells saying "nice macros", etc.

The best part? I use a controler.......

UnseenCat

A macro is nothing but a pre-programmed sequence of keypresses; a lot of gaming keyboards come with basic macro recording/playback software. Even console users can buy controllers with a little onboard NVRAM and macro capability. The macro plays back when a specially defined key or button is pressed.

But in ESO, macros have limited usefulness. Yes, you could program a rotation and keep firing it off, but due to cooldowns, lag, and AI and player variables, it's not going to get you very far. Maybe it's fine for an initial strike in combat - but after that there are too many ways that gameplay can vary that repeating a macro sequence isn't going to work as well as just acting and reacting on -the-fly.

Like already mentioned, macros can be handy for pre-setting hotkeys for emotes or other "/" commands since they're quicker than typing, even with autocomplete. Or for firing off standard text messages/responses in chat.

technohic

My take away from this is lag means macros don’t work so now I say 82% if players who complain about lag are macroing cheaters!

Vanzen

It is known that the only reliable macro is "light attack / skill".

Maybe also a switch bar macro ...

For the rest your better off doing things manually due to lag and gcd ...

But the light attack one is sure an unfair advantage, albeit a small one ...

DuskMarine

Emma_Overload wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After removing a handful of posts, we must ask that posts from here be kept civil and constructive.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

@ZOS_GregoryV could we get a statement on what zos actually thinks about this though? macros kindve ruin the whole skill factor of the game tbh.

ZOS has already commented on this a couple times over the years. The jist is that if you use a 3rd party software to automate multiple actions, you are cheating. So macros and bots are forbidden.

yea but heres the grey area macros are not always "3rd party software" there are official companies who make gaming mice with macros on them on the side. thus why we need a real answer on this grey area cause in reality they cannot legally ban someone for something that is sold by recognized companies that they know for a fact exists to be bought.

technohic

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Imagine being so bad you have to use macros loooooool. Sometimes I'm glad I play this game on console. Keep all that ish away from me and the people i play with fam

Edit: there are macros on console to an extent but its the bot farmers that use them to farm mudcrabs or other scrap-giving enemies over and over.

It’s actually rather easy to get a keyboard and mouse to work on any console with a piece of hardware that connects to it and a PC both using the pc software to then map what keys do what as far as controller commands. I imagine from there, any macro you could use on PC could accomplish the same result

Apherius

This guy probably talk about weaving lel.

Shantu

I'm 100% sure that 90% of the time macros are effective 1% of the time.

Bring your silly macros on! I will still chain, petrify, whip, and leap you dead before you can decide which one to use.

Horowonnoe

Vanzen wrote: »

It is known that the only reliable macro is "light attack / skill".

Maybe also a switch bar macro ...

For the rest your better off doing things manually due to lag and gcd ...

But the light attack one is sure an unfair advantage, albeit a small one ...

Wut? So like... have a macro for every variation of LA/skill combo? And another set of macros for every variation of Skill/barswap?
I whink i would go crazy and mix up the buttons all the time wow. Its not really that hard to press left mouse button before you press a skill button...

Ashtaris

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

zos has no stance on macro's, they are not for them or against them plus its impossible to police, since game is not server side

That’s not true. ZOS has posted public statements in the past that automated gameplay, either by software or hardware, that gives you a unfair advantage in combat is against the TOS. I’m not going to dig those old posts up again, but if you do some searching I’m sure you will find them.

Dojohoda

wolfie1.0.

I have been accused of using macros. And all I did was keybind most of my skills to a 12 button mouse so that I can maneuver and attack at the same time. For the record changing keybinds to a more affective set up is not cheating

rfennell_ESO

Macros have been and continue to be an issue.

But that's on ZOS as it's not feasible to enforce a ridiculous policy like "you can't use your mouse and keyboard software".

zaria

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Some players have to use macros, like if a disability or other effect leaves them with limited hand/arm function. Punishing players who use macros would be punishing players who do nothing wrong.

Also, macros don't turn the tide dramatically in the user's favor in any content, global cooldowns still exist and you can learn to weave or block/bar swap cancel like the rest of us and still be competitive in all content.

This macros let you do easy animation cancel, not much more.
I tested it out some time before morrowind trying to improve dps for templar. Looked up meta, found the rotation hard and I did less dps than spaming sweeps so I made a macro of it, helped a bit, but is pretty useless in real pve as you get locked into an long series casts and might have to block or dodge. In PvP it would be downright idiotic because fights is so dynamic.
In short it only help player who can not animation cancel and they are scrubs anyway.

zaria

technohic wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Imagine being so bad you have to use macros loooooool. Sometimes I'm glad I play this game on console. Keep all that ish away from me and the people i play with fam

Edit: there are macros on console to an extent but its the bot farmers that use them to farm mudcrabs or other scrap-giving enemies over and over.

It’s actually rather easy to get a keyboard and mouse to work on any console with a piece of hardware that connects to it and a PC both using the pc software to then map what keys do what as far as controller commands. I imagine from there, any macro you could use on PC could accomplish the same result

You can also buy controllers who let you do macros.
Again this give an marginal benefit for bad players in PvE, they guys who are out dps by the tank might be able to do as much dps as the healer.
Useless in PvP because the dynamic fights.
Now on consoles I belie this is the main form of boting, you can do AoE attacks in an rotation while afk.
Just seen it once on pc at an dolmen on pc, some guy did hail on cool-down while waiting for spawn.
He was into the fight then it spawned so he probably set it up while bio or smoke.

GrigorijMalahevich

SakuraRush wrote: »

Macros aren't a problem. Unattended macroing is. Something that has been a problem since the days of UO, where you could get banned for it.

Even if it was against the rules it wouldn't matter much as ZoS seems to have no consistent stance on how to punish those who break rules of any sort.

I fail to see how a macro would be of much help in ESO as it is. It wouldn't allow someone to perform a series of actions any faster unless I'm missing something.

Though I would gladly take a macro for "craft 100 of X" for example.

Haha man, yes, thise were the days ) I had a tailoring macros where character woukd buy cloth packs (no idea what they were called, but if you use scissors on them they create 50 cloth) from vendor, make hats and then sell all of them and repeat... that was in a non guarded area, so couldn’t be done for macroing... oh the good old UO days.

Macros in ESO can be done for xp farm and resource farm... I reported couple of people and they still continue to do it, so I guess ZoS doesn’t mind macros at all.

Ampnode

There isn't a single macro combination that provides an advantage in the slightest. If anything, using macros impair your ability to perform to your fullest. Go use macros in PvP, a trial, or a DLC dungeon and you'll see what I mean. I've tried this back when macros threads popped up on the forums daily to see what all the hype was and found out that it's just another excuse to blame deaths on.

If it isn't the player's class or the lag, then it comes down to them cheating, right?

DanteYoda

I agree macros should be banned like every other mmorpg does.

SlippyCheeze

DuskMarine wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

After removing a handful of posts, we must ask that posts from here be kept civil and constructive.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

@ZOS_GregoryV could we get a statement on what zos actually thinks about this though? macros kindve ruin the whole skill factor of the game tbh.

ZOS has already commented on this a couple times over the years. The jist is that if you use a 3rd party software to automate multiple actions, you are cheating. So macros and bots are forbidden.

yea but heres the grey area macros are not always "3rd party software" there are official companies who make gaming mice with macros on them on the side. thus why we need a real answer on this grey area cause in reality they cannot legally ban someone for something that is sold by recognized companies that they know for a fact exists to be bought.

This is absolutely not a grey area: using "macros" is banned, and a "macro" is defined as "anything that causes more hardware actions to be sent to the game, than the player presses buttons", more or less.

It doesn't matter if you use AutoHotKey, write your own C# code, use the software implementation in the Logitech gaming software, use a hardware implementation in your mouse, whatever. Literally none of that matters.

ZOS DO NOT CARE how you create the macro. They care about the effect.

This is why, in other games, the joke that it is literally a bannable ToS violation to put a popsicle stick on the 1-5 number keys, and press that to trigger all them at once. Because that is breaking the rules, just as doing it with anything else.

So ... don't you worry so much about that. It really, really isn't about how you do them, it is about what they do.

Which, in short, is to say that Emma_Overload is not wrong, but also, not necessarily clear in what they say.

PS: You can wait for an official response, but I promise you, it'll resemble this, or something equally vague, because every MMO operates on the policy "anything that is not explicitly permitted is forbidden", simply because they don't want the next random invention to allow players to cheat, and then to get rules-lawyered about it.

Doctordarkspawn

In PVP maybe.

In PVE I'd rather someone use macro's rather than be deadweight.

Expert

I know people think a lot of people use Macros, but some of the accusations are just so harsh...

Let this be an important reminder to think outside the box and not be biased that a player is simply cheating because you died.

https://i.imgur.com/xMkBfml.png

Thogard

Not only would macros be a handicap rather than crutch, I’d also prefer to turn off the ridiculous skill queueing system if I could. If my GCD isn’t ready and I hit a skill button, I don’t want to miss my light attack because I use a skill.

But then, if they disabled skill queueing, then there might be a valid reason to use a light-attack macro since it would work in variable lag (unlike now).

Fun to think about.

Fur_like_snow

I played WoW for a year before making the switch to ESO. In WoW some classes needed macros because of how many skills that needed to be slotted. In ESO macros are unnessary and often cause misfires due to lag.

OP, if you’re getting rekt in pvp the safe bet is that it was probably not because of macros.

Vizier

This is a subject that has always perplexed me. I've practiced animation cancelling and I've never been able to pull off 3 Hvy attacks with a couple skills and light attacks that all hit at the same time. When it happens to you all you see is one attack and the next thing you know your layed out pushing up Daisies.

People talk about the global cool down and while that sounds good, it sounds like there's a mechanism in place to stop or limit macros from being effective I'm just not convinced. Some say "oh it's lag" but then you run into the same player that does the same thing to you. If they keep repeating it at various times under various circumstances I'm supposed to believe the lag hit me each time just as the player started their rotation...every time?

Some say macros aren't viable because they have to be flexible and able to alter their strategy or tactics on the fly. Once again this sounds good and reasonable but if you think about it all we are talking about is making a bunch of attacks hit very quickly. That is pretty easy to insert into virtually any melee, especially if it results in the death of the other player.

And if it is "animation cancelling" explain to me how that can't also be macro'd and enhanced? I suspect there's more to this than some of the "naysayers" are letting on.

It would seem to me ZoS could evaluate timestamps on attack and sequences to determine whether or not it's legit.