[Class Rep] Werewolf Feedback Thread

snoozy

1. i am frustrated by the complete lack of a taunt in werewolf form.
like many others, i would really love to play a ww tank. i have read zos don't see wws as tanks, but honestly, there is so much lore-inconsistent stuff and being able to tank in group pve really would't hurt anyone. it definitely would be better than a lot of people queueing as fake tanks and not holding aggro.

2. i really wish for more diversity/rp/customization options, i.e. different fur colours.
could be just the toon's hair colour. or dyable... not only is having only two different ww skins super immersion breaking, it also is boring and frustrating for roleplay, especially with guild events.
and honestly, with the amount of work zos put into dragons and constantly releasing crown store pet/mount reskins, it really couldn't be that hard to give us fur colour reskins.

crazywolfpusher

snoozy wrote: »

1. i am frustrated by the complete lack of a taunt in werewolf form.
like many others, i would really love to play a ww tank. i have read zos don't see wws as tanks, but honestly, there is so much lore-inconsistent stuff and being able to tank in group pve really would't hurt anyone. it definitely would be better than a lot of people queueing as fake tanks and not holding aggro.

2. i really wish for more diversity/rp/customization options, i.e. different fur colours.
could be just the toon's hair colour. or dyable... not only is having only two different ww skins super immersion breaking, it also is boring and frustrating for roleplay, especially with guild events.
and honestly, with the amount of work zos put into dragons and constantly releasing crown store pet/mount reskins, it really couldn't be that hard to give us fur colour reskins.

For me WW pve taunt is a big no, i cant see it working outside normal dungeon difficulty so whats the point. Also doesnt match the concept, you are not there to hold the enemy and block his damage. Everything about WW resolves around doing damage

As for the cosmetics yeah they are probably missing some business opportunities there and not only for WW. Im sure people would even pay for different skills icons, different animations.. so many things they could sell.

snoozy

crazywolfpusher wrote: »

For me WW pve taunt is a big no, i cant see it working outside normal dungeon difficulty so whats the point. Also doesnt match the concept, you are not there to hold the enemy and block his damage. Everything about WW resolves around doing damage

yeah, maybe ww tank doesn't work for vet hm dlc dungeons, but in more casual settings, e.g. normal basegame dungeons it would easily be enough, so why prevent people from enjoying that?
a lot of selfmade builds people play are not viable outside normal dungeon difficulty, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't play them. as long as they are having fun and the group can clear the dungeon, let them be! not everyone wants to run meta, and individuality is an important part of what makes eso such a great game imo.

as for 'matching the concept', nightblades are tailored to benefit assassins and players who prefer a stealthy approach, with a lot of skills to maximize damage output. yet they are also viable as tanks, which doesn't really match the sneaky assassin concept as i see it...
the whole concept of eso is 'play the way you want to play' and 'make the game your own'. it applies to classes, so why should werewolves be an exception?

and as stated before, this wouldn't put anyone at a disadvantage.
on the contrary, it might actually make pugging more enjoyable when you get a ww tank that can actually do his job instead of a fake tank that is just dpsing and not holding aggro.

Chrlynsch

crazywolfpusher wrote: »

snoozy wrote: »

1. i am frustrated by the complete lack of a taunt in werewolf form.
like many others, i would really love to play a ww tank. i have read zos don't see wws as tanks, but honestly, there is so much lore-inconsistent stuff and being able to tank in group pve really would't hurt anyone. it definitely would be better than a lot of people queueing as fake tanks and not holding aggro.

2. i really wish for more diversity/rp/customization options, i.e. different fur colours.
could be just the toon's hair colour. or dyable... not only is having only two different ww skins super immersion breaking, it also is boring and frustrating for roleplay, especially with guild events.
and honestly, with the amount of work zos put into dragons and constantly releasing crown store pet/mount reskins, it really couldn't be that hard to give us fur colour reskins.

For me WW pve taunt is a big no, i cant see it working outside normal dungeon difficulty so whats the point. Also doesnt match the concept, you are not there to hold the enemy and block his damage. Everything about WW resolves around doing damage

As for the cosmetics yeah they are probably missing some business opportunities there and not only for WW. Im sure people would even pay for different skills icons, different animations.. so many things they could sell.

I can see the point of having it in a werewolf pack run of a vet dungeon, it's annoying when 1 of four wolves is holding agro, blocking, kiting, and roll dodging, until bam boss turns and oneshots a random werewolf without warning.

But like it has been said werewolf lacks some common "nessisary" tank abilities like fracture and breech for bosses, block damage reduction, and buffs to boost damage output of group, or negate damage of boss. IMO giving them the ability to taunt just opens the door to them being poor tanks instead of beefy damage dealers that they are.

diredoobbs

Tanking got a bit boring for me, but id really love to see more reliability for ww tanks, doesnt even have to be a taunt at all just something that works, I've also heard theyve been nerfed so
i havent played in a bit so seeing better tanking in ww's for pve is one thing id be excited to come back to

FenrisWolf1136

1. Fracture -
Werewolves can only fracture smaller enemies, not larger bosses, many larger adds, or practice dummies. They should be able to apply fracture regardless if fear is applied or not.

2. Lack of range -
While leap is super nice for closing gaps, how about a skill or 2 for range? Howls could easily have a bit more range to at least give them something.

Honestly it would be awesome for ww to just get a class of their own some day. Get some new skills for them, give them some abilities to hold agro, fracture, new dps type abilities. Maybe they could heal using boons from Hircine or something. Make it a were-class and get other were-creatures introduced. There is a lot you could do with ww to flesh them out further. This could also provide ways to change the looks for ww. There is a huge lack of customization when it comes to a ww.

Tommy_The_Gun

WW have very limited usage. They are almost only used in:
1. PvP in a Pre-made groups.
2. PvE Stamina DPS (it is rare, but ww can be used in this role).


And... that is pretty much it. Sure, you can use WW for solo pve play, but you have to build for it. And I am not even talking about some extra hard content here.
Also WW suffers from a very limited gear sets choices (it is a direct consequence of limited roles & usage).

IMHO there is a lot of room for improvements here.

WW has a huge potential to fulfil Tank role. It has more stamina, more dmg mitigation, and it has some form of CC and gap closer. The only thing that WW is missing is a Taunt.

This would improve WW use-case and greatly improve WW build diversity too. Taunt could be added to one of WW morphs heavy attacks. Pack Leader for example, could "trade" its bleed dmg bonus for a Taunt.

FenrisWolf1136

What's with the new ww nerfs? They are hard enough to use in pve as is, and we get enough flak just for playing them in many trials groups already. Give them their own class already!

skyhawk002

My two WW painpoints
-Zos Nerfs 1.0
- Zos nerfs 2.0

Jaraal

FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »

What's with the new ww nerfs? They are hard enough to use in pve as is, and we get enough flak just for playing them in many trials groups already. Give them their own class already!

Crazy, aren't they?

17% less melee damage, reduced DOT damage, reduced heals with increased cost, reduced damage from Howl, increased cost and reduced radius of Roar..... and still no taunt. And Pack Leader is worthless now! The dires can't off tank when you get swarmed, you can no longer focus their attacks, their damage and attack speed is reduced, and your bleed damage is completely removed.

It was fun while it lasted, but werewolf is now nothing but a doggo polymorph that doesn't let you use your regular skills. Going to get all my skill points back and return to regular skills.

FenrisWolf1136

Yeah, im hoping the changes wont make it through pts. Any of them really.

Tommy_The_Gun

Upcoming WW changes & my concerns (Sorry for "wall of text", you can skip to the end for a proposed solution):
Pack Leader:
- The Direwolves can no longer be targeted or die.

So ww pets will be untargatable. The whole point of this morph is to be able to solo content. Look, I don't care about PvP and issues it is causing there because of poorly designed targeting system. In fact I am willing to say that there is significantly more players that use this morph in PvE for dmg tanking pets rather than ppl using it in BGs or Cyro. In fact when I last played cyro I have seen little to no WW there at all. However, I am sure we can find a middle ground here.

Firstly, This is a very bad move. It will kill this morph entirely and we will end up in a situation where Werewolf Berserker morph is picked 100% of times. Because lest face it - it is far superior if we take into account the PTS version of Pack Leader in every way, shape or form.

Not to mention this:
- This ability and the Pack Leader morph no longer apply a bleed to enemies hit with Light Attacks, or deal area damage with Heavy Attacks.

Less dmg with no compensation what so ever. Just a dmg reduction. Why ? The other morph has its dmg increased... Oh, and even the base morph still has bleed dmg...

- Reduced the damage of the Direwolves’ Gnash attack by approximately 70%, and decreased the frequency of its attack speed to 2 seconds from 1 second.
- Gnash now applies Minor Maim to enemies hit for 4 seconds.
- Reduced the damage of the Lunge attack by approximately 60%.
- Lunge will now be cast every 10 seconds, rather than have a 25% chance every 3 seconds to cast.
- Lunge will now snare enemies hit by 30% for 4 seconds.
- The Direwolves will now return to your side if you travel far enough away from them, since they are lost and confused without their leader of the pack.

So basically this morph will now have almost no dmg what so ever, the pets will do almost no-existing dmg and apply Minor Maim & Snare to a random or the same single target enemy every 4 or 10 or seconds, because as far as I can tell the wolfs attacks will still be more or less random, so the same affect is going to be applied while it is already be on a target. And one important thing is that all Dungoen Bosses are immune to Snares. Which means that this Wolf pets will offer close-to-nothing single target de-buff.

The other Morph:
Werewolf Berserker (morph): Increased the damage of the bleed from your Light Attacks by 25%.

So... what is the reason some one would like to pick Pack Leader over Werewolf Berserker ? There is no content in eso where "new" Pack Leader will be useful. Solo PvE ? Nope. PvP ? Nope. Group PvE ? Nope. There is no content in ESO where this morph will be used if it goes live like this.

Developer Comment:

The werewolf morphs were initially designed to have Pack Leader emphasized on utility, while Berserker was meant to be the offensive and raw damage choice. Due to the Direwolves' damage and attack speed, Berserker was constantly eclipsed, and Pack Leader wasn't provided much utility other than causing target complications for enemies. Now, Pack Leader allows your doggos to enfeeble your foes, while Berserker lets you rip and tear.

So I can understand the idea. Pack Leader for until / support and Werewolf Berserker for raw dmg / burst / dps. Great concept. But the problem is that Pack Leader has no way to offer utility. It is simply too little, too random, too unreliable (pet commands & stuff) and narrow. I simply can not think of content or scenario or situation where this utility could be of any use.

Solution & Some ideas how to fix it:

- First of all, Direwolves can no longer be targeted or die. This either needs to go away or exist only for other players. Mobs & Bosses should be able to target those pets. Otherwise it is useless.

- Lack of dmg and lack of bleed dmg. WW Base morph has Bleed dmg this one does not have. If this is going to be a utility / support morph, than you can add this utility. You have stated that this morph no longer deal area damage with Heavy Attacks.

It is so obvious.... just add a T A U N T to this morph heavy attack. I mean it is so obvious. It possible could not be more obvious at this point. Utility / Support... It makes so much sense. Common. You even stated yourself it is supposed to be Utility / Support. You know what role it is. It is a TANK role ! Utility & Support is what tank does !
It would fit perfectly. PPl were asking about it for ages. Besides it will make both morphs useful and distinct. WW has all the tools needed. More Stamina, more dmg mitigation, gap closer, CC.
- Pack Leader: Significantly less DMG traded for a Taunt and de-buffing pets.
- Werewolf Berserker: Raw dmg DPS morph.

Pleas ZOS, it will work. Make it correct. You have a chance !

Chrlynsch

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Upcoming WW changes & my concerns (Sorry for "wall of text", you can skip to the end for a proposed solution):
Pack Leader:
- The Direwolves can no longer be targeted or die.

So ww pets will be untargatable. The whole point of this morph is to be able to solo content. Look, I don't care about PvP and issues it is causing there because of poorly designed targeting system. In fact I am willing to say that there is significantly more players that use this morph in PvE for dmg tanking pets rather than ppl using it in BGs or Cyro. In fact when I last played cyro I have seen little to no WW there at all. However, I am sure we can find a middle ground here.

Firstly, This is a very bad move. It will kill this morph entirely and we will end up in a situation where Werewolf Berserker morph is picked 100% of times. Because lest face it - it is far superior if we take into account the PTS version of Pack Leader in every way, shape or form.

Not to mention this:
- This ability and the Pack Leader morph no longer apply a bleed to enemies hit with Light Attacks, or deal area damage with Heavy Attacks.

Less dmg with no compensation what so ever. Just a dmg reduction. Why ? The other morph has its dmg increased... Oh, and even the base morph still has bleed dmg...

- Reduced the damage of the Direwolves’ Gnash attack by approximately 70%, and decreased the frequency of its attack speed to 2 seconds from 1 second.
- Gnash now applies Minor Maim to enemies hit for 4 seconds.
- Reduced the damage of the Lunge attack by approximately 60%.
- Lunge will now be cast every 10 seconds, rather than have a 25% chance every 3 seconds to cast.
- Lunge will now snare enemies hit by 30% for 4 seconds.
- The Direwolves will now return to your side if you travel far enough away from them, since they are lost and confused without their leader of the pack.

So basically this morph will now have almost no dmg what so ever, the pets will do almost no-existing dmg and apply Minor Maim & Snare to a random or the same single target enemy every 4 or 10 or seconds, because as far as I can tell the wolfs attacks will still be more or less random, so the same affect is going to be applied while it is already be on a target. And one important thing is that all Dungoen Bosses are immune to Snares. Which means that this Wolf pets will offer close-to-nothing single target de-buff.

The other Morph:
Werewolf Berserker (morph): Increased the damage of the bleed from your Light Attacks by 25%.

So... what is the reason some one would like to pick Pack Leader over Werewolf Berserker ? There is no content in eso where "new" Pack Leader will be useful. Solo PvE ? Nope. PvP ? Nope. Group PvE ? Nope. There is no content in ESO where this morph will be used if it goes live like this.

Developer Comment:

The werewolf morphs were initially designed to have Pack Leader emphasized on utility, while Berserker was meant to be the offensive and raw damage choice. Due to the Direwolves' damage and attack speed, Berserker was constantly eclipsed, and Pack Leader wasn't provided much utility other than causing target complications for enemies. Now, Pack Leader allows your doggos to enfeeble your foes, while Berserker lets you rip and tear.

So I can understand the idea. Pack Leader for until / support and Werewolf Berserker for raw dmg / burst / dps. Great concept. But the problem is that Pack Leader has no way to offer utility. It is simply too little, too random, too unreliable (pet commands & stuff) and narrow. I simply can not think of content or scenario or situation where this utility could be of any use.

Solution & Some ideas how to fix it:

- First of all, Direwolves can no longer be targeted or die. This either needs to go away or exist only for other players. Mobs & Bosses should be able to target those pets. Otherwise it is useless.

- Lack of dmg and lack of bleed dmg. WW Base morph has Bleed dmg this one does not have. If this is going to be a utility / support morph, than you can add this utility. You have stated that this morph no longer deal area damage with Heavy Attacks.

It is so obvious.... just add a T A U N T to this morph heavy attack. I mean it is so obvious. It possible could not be more obvious at this point. Utility / Support... It makes so much sense. Common. You even stated yourself it is supposed to be Utility / Support. You know what role it is. It is a TANK role ! Utility & Support is what tank does !
It would fit perfectly. PPl were asking about it for ages. Besides it will make both morphs useful and distinct. WW has all the tools needed. More Stamina, more dmg mitigation, gap closer, CC.
- Pack Leader: Significantly less DMG traded for a Taunt and de-buffing pets.
- Werewolf Berserker: Raw dmg DPS morph.

Pleas ZOS, it will work. Make it correct. You have a chance !

The problem with adding a taunt to WW is that it is not set up to block the heavy hits found in harder dlcs and trials. So going halfway and giving a werewolf the ability to tank without giving it the rest of the tools needed to tank effectively just sets it up for future pain points and struggles.

Giving the werewolf a debuff that is commonly found elsewhere and from other abilities wasn't the right direction to go for this morph. There is very little reason to use pack leader now. And has little to no value anywhere in the game outside of roleplaying.

cmvet

The problem with adding a taunt to WW is that it is not set up to block the heavy hits found in harder dlcs and trials. So going halfway and giving a werewolf the ability to tank without giving it the rest of the tools needed to tank effectively just sets it up for future pain points and struggles.

Giving the werewolf a debuff that is commonly found elsewhere and from other abilities wasn't the right direction to go for this morph. There is very little reason to use pack leader now. And has little to no value anywhere in the game outside of roleplaying.

Agree that if those changes are made to pack leader it will be useless and berserker morph will almost always be chosen. Pack leader works well as currently constucted. Why break something that is working well. I agree is was over performing berserker prior to the last major changes, which is why the bleed damage was reduced.

Direwolves not being targetable completely goes against all other "pets" in the game. In PVE and PVP, you use your pets to your advantage, dance with them, cause the enemy to target them not you. What other class pet in not targetable? Hell, even the engine guardian pet is targetable.

Chrlynsch

cmvet wrote: »

The problem with adding a taunt to WW is that it is not set up to block the heavy hits found in harder dlcs and trials. So going halfway and giving a werewolf the ability to tank without giving it the rest of the tools needed to tank effectively just sets it up for future pain points and struggles.

Giving the werewolf a debuff that is commonly found elsewhere and from other abilities wasn't the right direction to go for this morph. There is very little reason to use pack leader now. And has little to no value anywhere in the game outside of roleplaying.

Hmm, will retest, but I have been getting slightly higher dps with the pack leader morph over berserker. Even though they reduced the light attack bleed damage, the two direwolf attacks makes up for it. Your light attack bleed is not you main damage in ww form. One other benefit is when you are soloing dungeons or running VMA, the direwolves will pull agro off you thus reducing your incomming damage taken.

@cmvet we are talking about the changes to pack leader showcased in upcoming patch with the new patch notes that came out.

-This ability and the Pack Leader morph no longer apply a bleed to enemies hit with Light Attacks, or deal area damage with Heavy Attacks.

Pack Leader:
-The Direwolves can no longer be targeted or die.

-Reduced the damage of the Direwolves’ Gnash attack by approximately 70%, and decreased the frequency of its attack speed to 2 seconds from 1 second.

-Gnash now applies Minor Maim to enemies hit for 4 seconds.

-Reduced the damage of the Lunge attack by approximately 60%.

-Lunge will now be cast every 10 seconds, rather than have a 25% chance every 3 seconds to cast.

-Lunge will now snare enemies hit by 30% for 4 seconds.

-The Direwolves will now return to your side if you travel far enough away from them, since they are lost and confused without their leader of the pack.

-Werewolf Berserker (morph): Increased the damage of the bleed from your Light Attacks by 25%.

Tommy_The_Gun

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Upcoming WW changes & my concerns (Sorry for "wall of text", you can skip to the end for a proposed solution):
Pack Leader:
- The Direwolves can no longer be targeted or die.

So ww pets will be untargatable. The whole point of this morph is to be able to solo content. Look, I don't care about PvP and issues it is causing there because of poorly designed targeting system. In fact I am willing to say that there is significantly more players that use this morph in PvE for dmg tanking pets rather than ppl using it in BGs or Cyro. In fact when I last played cyro I have seen little to no WW there at all. However, I am sure we can find a middle ground here.

Firstly, This is a very bad move. It will kill this morph entirely and we will end up in a situation where Werewolf Berserker morph is picked 100% of times. Because lest face it - it is far superior if we take into account the PTS version of Pack Leader in every way, shape or form.

Not to mention this:
- This ability and the Pack Leader morph no longer apply a bleed to enemies hit with Light Attacks, or deal area damage with Heavy Attacks.

Less dmg with no compensation what so ever. Just a dmg reduction. Why ? The other morph has its dmg increased... Oh, and even the base morph still has bleed dmg...

- Reduced the damage of the Direwolves’ Gnash attack by approximately 70%, and decreased the frequency of its attack speed to 2 seconds from 1 second.
- Gnash now applies Minor Maim to enemies hit for 4 seconds.
- Reduced the damage of the Lunge attack by approximately 60%.
- Lunge will now be cast every 10 seconds, rather than have a 25% chance every 3 seconds to cast.
- Lunge will now snare enemies hit by 30% for 4 seconds.
- The Direwolves will now return to your side if you travel far enough away from them, since they are lost and confused without their leader of the pack.

So basically this morph will now have almost no dmg what so ever, the pets will do almost no-existing dmg and apply Minor Maim & Snare to a random or the same single target enemy every 4 or 10 or seconds, because as far as I can tell the wolfs attacks will still be more or less random, so the same affect is going to be applied while it is already be on a target. And one important thing is that all Dungoen Bosses are immune to Snares. Which means that this Wolf pets will offer close-to-nothing single target de-buff.

The other Morph:
Werewolf Berserker (morph): Increased the damage of the bleed from your Light Attacks by 25%.

So... what is the reason some one would like to pick Pack Leader over Werewolf Berserker ? There is no content in eso where "new" Pack Leader will be useful. Solo PvE ? Nope. PvP ? Nope. Group PvE ? Nope. There is no content in ESO where this morph will be used if it goes live like this.

Developer Comment:

The werewolf morphs were initially designed to have Pack Leader emphasized on utility, while Berserker was meant to be the offensive and raw damage choice. Due to the Direwolves' damage and attack speed, Berserker was constantly eclipsed, and Pack Leader wasn't provided much utility other than causing target complications for enemies. Now, Pack Leader allows your doggos to enfeeble your foes, while Berserker lets you rip and tear.

So I can understand the idea. Pack Leader for until / support and Werewolf Berserker for raw dmg / burst / dps. Great concept. But the problem is that Pack Leader has no way to offer utility. It is simply too little, too random, too unreliable (pet commands & stuff) and narrow. I simply can not think of content or scenario or situation where this utility could be of any use.

Solution & Some ideas how to fix it:

- First of all, Direwolves can no longer be targeted or die. This either needs to go away or exist only for other players. Mobs & Bosses should be able to target those pets. Otherwise it is useless.

- Lack of dmg and lack of bleed dmg. WW Base morph has Bleed dmg this one does not have. If this is going to be a utility / support morph, than you can add this utility. You have stated that this morph no longer deal area damage with Heavy Attacks.

It is so obvious.... just add a T A U N T to this morph heavy attack. I mean it is so obvious. It possible could not be more obvious at this point. Utility / Support... It makes so much sense. Common. You even stated yourself it is supposed to be Utility / Support. You know what role it is. It is a TANK role ! Utility & Support is what tank does !
It would fit perfectly. PPl were asking about it for ages. Besides it will make both morphs useful and distinct. WW has all the tools needed. More Stamina, more dmg mitigation, gap closer, CC.
- Pack Leader: Significantly less DMG traded for a Taunt and de-buffing pets.
- Werewolf Berserker: Raw dmg DPS morph.

Pleas ZOS, it will work. Make it correct. You have a chance !

The problem with adding a taunt to WW is that it is not set up to block the heavy hits found in harder dlcs and trials. So going halfway and giving a werewolf the ability to tank without giving it the rest of the tools needed to tank effectively just sets it up for future pain points and struggles.

Giving the werewolf a debuff that is commonly found elsewhere and from other abilities wasn't the right direction to go for this morph. There is very little reason to use pack leader now. And has little to no value anywhere in the game outside of roleplaying.

Well.. WW have more stamina pool and they have more dmg mitigation. Even without special passive to reduce % block cost WW could still be able to tank content. It would be the same as with WW DPS. They are not the best way to pull a decent DPS, but they can fulfil that role. Same would be for tanking (assuming they will receive a taunt). They wont be super good at tanking, but just "enough" to do vet dungeons.

So even without % block cost reduction, higher stamina pool & more built-in mitigetion should make up for it. Besides, there is Sturdy trait that reduces block cost and there is also CP. There are also sets that can boost % block cost reduction. So there is always a way.

Ppl have bean asking for ww to be able to taunt for ages. Now ZOS has a perfect opportunity to add taunt. Even they stated that they want Pack Leader to be Utility / support morph and Werewolf Berserker to be DPS morph. So adding a taunt would fit perfectly. I mean it makes so much sense to do.

FenrisWolf1136

In its current state, just adding taunt would not be very effective. They need to make ww a class first. Give it some tanking skills to go along with taunt. Introduce healer skills, range skills, and more dps skills. Ww's lack in so many areas, just giving them a skill or two probably would not prove very effective. Id rather they do things right than just half hearted attempts.

Tommy_The_Gun

FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »

In its current state, just adding taunt would not be very effective. They need to make ww a class first. Give it some tanking skills to go along with taunt. Introduce healer skills, range skills, and more dps skills. Ww's lack in so many areas, just giving them a skill or two probably would not prove very effective. Id rather they do things right than just half hearted attempts.

That would be awesome, but we have to stay realistic: They wont gonna do that. Even if somehow they made 3 WW morphs (DPS, Tank, Healer) it is very unlikely. We have to work on what we have and currently this is just 2 WW ulti morphs + 5 skills.

Right now ZOS is tinkering on Pack Leader. They probably wont gonna tinker on another WW skills much. If current changes go live, we will be left pretty much with one WW ulti morph (Berserker) because the other one (Pack Leader) will become useless in pretty much all ESO content. I am trying to find a way to fix it, and so far the only reasonable and sensible solution I have found was to add a taunt to Pack Leader heavy attacks. At least that way it could be used for PvE tanking (again, something that ppl have been asking for ages). It does not matter if it will be good or not. (Tbh I dont want it to be super good, because too good = nerfs).

Besides, Originally WW was design solely with PvP in mind. That is it. It was not designed as a PvE DPS. But ppl wanted this and in Wolfhunter ZOS made it possible. It was a "small step" way, but eventually it was possible.

Adding taunt now will be the good starting point. It will gradually become a thing and will be improved in future updates, just like WW DPS role was. Like the old saying goes: "Rome wasn't built in a day." We have to start somewhere.

If you have other ideas then share your thoughts.

FenrisWolf1136

I agree at some points. While taunt would be interesting in that morph, the best starting point would be to just take a step back and rethink the current setup vs just applying new effects to an already limited range of skills. Like you said, its just 2 ult morphs and 5 skills. There is not enough versatility to do more than just dps or utility. I don't see them adding a taunt if they don't plan to expand on the current skills.

Maybe keep the ult for normal characters and then make a Hircines beast class for dedicated werebeasts. Same can be done for vamps honestly. Its pretty much expand and hit the full potential of this choice of gameplay or leave it as is at this point.

Tanking skills could be something related to werebears, ult turns you into one. Dps werewolves, healers indrik like magic / Hircines boons. Dps ww ult could turn you into a behemoth like werewolf, there are plenty of in game textures and ideas to make use of. This could also open the door to customization, color choices, and patterns.

Obviously it's not going to happen over the course of a patch or two. I'm a gameplay programmer myself, i have a rough idea of the process it has to go through. And you're right, rome wasn't built in a day; neither was this game. They need to plan and then execute, not just start by just adding an effect to a skill. Probably wouldn't see any major change until after this years currently planned content anyways so might as well take the time to at least consider a direction to go.

Would honestly save themselves some headache if they had a way to balance pve and pvp separately as well, but that's just me lol.

cmvet

FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »

In its current state, just adding taunt would not be very effective. They need to make ww a class first. Give it some tanking skills to go along with taunt. Introduce healer skills, range skills, and more dps skills. Ww's lack in so many areas, just giving them a skill or two probably would not prove very effective. Id rather they do things right than just half hearted attempts.

I get most of your points, but what the hell kinda "ranged" attack would a ww have? WW don't shoot weapons, there are no porcupine like ww's, they don't spit acid, ect. I know this is a game where all classes are fantasy, but at least ww have some "lore" in the history of writing. I would hate to see them go so far out there with them, that they are no longer really a ww but some bastardized wizard wolf.

They have claws and teeth, those are their attacks. There is a reason ww put out decent dps while being able take decent damage, they are supposed to fight up close. If you want to fight at range as a ww, be pack leader and let your pets go damage while you stand back and put out no other damage. Better yet, build your character to have a bow back bar where you drop out of ww form in situations that require ranged only.

jediodyn_ESO

New patch nerfs the crud out of BOTH morphs.
Berserker gets a TON less damage.

Here let me break it down:

• Resistances apply to all bleeds = dmg nerf
• 17% dmg reduction to light & heavy attacks
• Cost increase (big) + damage reduction (small) on claws - damage change would be ok if not for the increased cost.
• 17% damage reduction on howl of agony with a (lol) %3 increase to a feared target
• Fear nerfed and now has a shorter range than light attacks. (ridiculous)
• Huge cost increases means needing more sustain so.. less defense and/or offense.

Also:

• Slap in the face 1% cost reduction to pounce
• Healing ridiculously gutted - huge cost increase and less healing

+25% bleed damage doesn’t compensate for all that lost damage and increased cost. Also, all other bleeds also had a face damage increase but take an overall damage decrease due to resistance... so overall less damage.

Make no mistake, both morphs are getting neutered. WW fall 2019- roleplayers only.

ccfeeling

WW got nerf again.
Zos yous guys nerf WW too much, any build could hit harder than WW.

Nevermind, u wont listen.

Amdar_Godkiller

Do we even have a class rep?

If so, maybe they should try and better communicate the direction we need to be moving towards to the game developers.

If not, is there even a point to a class rep thread? Like is it just a coping mechanism at this point? Free therapy? Howling at the moon...

Jaraal

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Do we even have a class rep?

If so, maybe they should try and better communicate the direction we need to be moving towards to the game developers.

If not, is there even a point to a class rep thread? Like is it just a coping mechanism at this point? Free therapy? Howling at the moon...

Communication is a moot point when they can't make up their minds about what they are trying to achieve.



Beginning of 2018: Werewolf is underused and neglected, let's make them relevant again.

August of 2018: Wolfhunter release, werewolf is glorious again!

Less than a year later: Werewolf is gutted and in worse condition than pre-Wolfhunter.



There's no such thing as subtle changes with these guys. It's always huge upheavals, and then scrambling to contain the fallout, which usually means making things worse than they were before.

Amdar_Godkiller

Jaraal wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Do we even have a class rep?

If so, maybe they should try and better communicate the direction we need to be moving towards to the game developers.

If not, is there even a point to a class rep thread? Like is it just a coping mechanism at this point? Free therapy? Howling at the moon...

Communication is a moot point when they can't make up their minds about what they are trying to achieve.



Beginning of 2018: Werewolf is underused and neglected, let's make them relevant again.

August of 2018: Wolfhunter release, werewolf is glorious again!

Less than a year later: Werewolf is gutted and in worse condition than pre-Wolfhunter.



There's no such thing as subtle changes with these guys. It's always huge upheavals, and then scrambling to contain the fallout, which usually means making things worse than they were before.

I was a wolf long before 2018, completely happy with my pelinals, kena, prisoners build that wrecked face all night in solo PVP Cyrodil. And there were many others as well. And when the changes were made, we all prophesied that this would happen. One patch that "buffs" us, followed by massive changes that led to nerfs each subsequent patch. (plus that was the patch that broke our 10K mitigation, so even in the one patch where we were "buffed" we were nerfed)


I don't really disagree with anything else you've said, but a class rep system without a class rep is also useless.

Skelfish

Man, maybe if there were some kind of platform that acted like a forum, but also provided instant communication that allowed people to quickly address pain points. Something that could also have different channels of communication for specific feedback?

Just thinking out loud here, but it sure would be nice to have the class Discord servers back up and running instead of mysteriously deleted.

cmvet

So I have to ask...... Are Werewolves that OP that they have to beat them so bad with the nerf stick that very few people will play them. I mean, do we see packs of werewolves dominating in cyrodiil? Is everyone running werewolves in end game content and just blowing through it? Do people seek out werewolves to fill groups for trials?

So if you haven't guessed the answer to all that is no. Think about all the classes that do things better than ww's in PVE content. In cyrodiil and bg's if you know how to counter a ww, they are easy sauce (those that play ww know how to counter them). Reading all these posts, it is clear that these changes are overboard, not needed, and definitely not wanted.

Tommy_The_Gun

cmvet wrote: »

So I have to ask...... Are Werewolves that OP that they have to beat them so bad with the nerf stick that very few people will play them. I mean, do we see packs of werewolves dominating in cyrodiil? Is everyone running werewolves in end game content and just blowing through it? Do people seek out werewolves to fill groups for trials?

So if you haven't guessed the answer to all that is no. Think about all the classes that do things better than ww's. In cyrodiil and bg's if you know how to counter a ww, they are easy sauce (those that play ww know how to counter them). Reading all these posts, it is clear that these changes are overboard, not needed, and definitely not wanted.

Some ppl simply from the lack of better term "hate" WW. Idk why. Maybe they only RP ww hunters on forums or whatever.
As some one who played WW a lot in various different type of content (PvP, PvE, solo, group), I see a lot of exaggerated or even "imaginary" comments about WW being SOOOOO OP and stuff. Most of them are based around BG in which (as we all know) there is no good MM and often solo "noobs" have to fight against organized groups... we all know how it ends. Some of those groups use WW.

*Tinfoil hat mode on"
It also might be because of Elsweyr chapter. It one of those "conspiracy" theory, but looking at forum post history & when the whole WW OP topics started... is more or less when Elsweyr launched. So maybe it is simply Elsweyr that attracted all of Cat fans / fanatics / furries and as w all know cats hate dogs..
*Tinfoil hat mode off"

ccfeeling

Who is the WW class Rep?
If these changes go live, all pve ww will be dead, we need your help

cmvet

Some ppl simply from the lack of better term "hate" WW. Idk why. Maybe they only RP ww hunters on forums or whatever.
As some one who played WW a lot in various different type of content (PvP, PvE, solo, group), I see a lot of exaggerated or even "imaginary" comments about WW being SOOOOO OP and stuff. Most of them are based around BG in which (as we all know) there is no good MM and often solo "noobs" have to fight against organized groups... we all know how it ends. Some of those groups use WW.

*Tinfoil hat mode on"
It also might be because of Elsweyr chapter. It one of those "conspiracy" theory, but looking at forum post history & when the whole WW OP topics started... is more or less when Elsweyr launched. So maybe it is simply Elsweyr that attracted all of Cat fans / fanatics / furries and as w all know cats hate dogs..
*Tinfoil hat mode off"

Yeah, the BG thing is where i think a lot of the ww hate comes from. Good players know how to beat a ww easy, but the bad players that continually get wrecked by ww are the squeakiest wheel who make the most noise, thus the oil bath ww are about to take to shut them up. To the BG ww haters, simple tip, learn to immobilize. That should be all the oil you need to stop the squeak, not 20 lashes from the nerf stick.