[Class Rep] Werewolf Feedback Thread

Skoomah

ZOS should give away their product for free?

Skip a few meals and eso plus is paid for. It’s okay to miss a few cheeseburgers.

ESO plus is like $0.50 a day. You can pan handle for 5 minutes and pay for eso plus.

Aznox

Skoomah wrote: »

ZOS should give away their product for free?

Skip a few meals and eso plus is paid for. It’s okay to miss a few cheeseburgers.

ESO plus is like $0.50 a day. You can pan handle for 5 minutes and pay for eso plus.

Or if you have more time than money, it is now accepted by ZoS for players to trade Crown Store gifts (like DLC) for in-game gold.

But let's not deviate too much from our subject : feedback about our beloved werewolf "class"

Skoomah

Werewolves stink! We need more powah!

Qbiken

[img][/img]


No gear or re-traiting feature in this picture requires any DLC or chapter (you can use transmutation stations even though you don´t own the clockwork city dlc). All is available through the base game. The jewelry of automaton as bought from Cyrodil vendor and not upgraded using the jewelry crafting feature.

[img][/img]

Nothing but light attacks and within the 35-40k DPS window as asked.

*Dislcaimer: My Pack-Leader morph is level 1, so if it was level 4 it would be even more damage.

Chrlynsch

Bangarang @Qbiken!

Tommy_The_Gun

Qbiken wrote: »

2. When it comes to PvE, the concept of having werewolf as a DPS is relatively new. Werewolf has been used for burst fights in the past (Think there´s an old video of Alcast nuking last boss in vDSA with 3 werewolfs), but not in the same way as now. Werewolf is an extremely niched PvE DPS role made purely for single target.

Imho even if WW could be used relatively good as a DPS its use would be still very limited. Why limit WW only to PvP or PvE stamina DPS ? We have 3 roles (Tank, DPS, Healer - although I admit - I don't think so WW healer will ever be a thing as WW is stamina based). WW was originally designed as a "DPS - Tank hybrid. That being said I don't see a reason why not to allow WW to fulfil tank role too. All it takes is just to add taunt to some skill morph or ult morph or even passive. And we can go even further as WW could provide some useful group buffs etc.... But for a good start taunt in some form could allow WW to be used as tank and would improve build & play-style diversity

Skoomah

Isn’t Tommy Gun a p-star?

Aznox

Qbiken wrote: »

[img][/img]


No gear or re-traiting feature in this picture requires any DLC or chapter (you can use transmutation stations even though you don´t own the clockwork city dlc). All is available through the base game. The jewelry of automaton as bought from Cyrodil vendor and not upgraded using the jewelry crafting feature.

[img][/img]

Nothing but light attacks and within the 35-40k DPS window as asked.

*Dislcaimer: My Pack-Leader morph is level 1, so if it was level 4 it would be even more damage.

Ahaha nice

And there is still room for improvement on that stuff ... but i think the point is made.

Mr_Wolfe

Qbiken wrote: »

[img][/img]


No gear or re-traiting feature in this picture requires any DLC or chapter (you can use transmutation stations even though you don´t own the clockwork city dlc). All is available through the base game. The jewelry of automaton as bought from Cyrodil vendor and not upgraded using the jewelry crafting feature.

[img][/img]

Nothing but light attacks and within the 35-40k DPS window as asked.

*Dislcaimer: My Pack-Leader morph is level 1, so if it was level 4 it would be even more damage.

That's a lot of gold gear. Could explain some of the disparity, as most of the people I know are running mainly purple gear with maybe one or two pieces golded out.

If these claims of "easy dps" are assuming fully or mostly golded gear, then I once again have to take issue with the use of the word "easy." Gold gear is not easy to get, unless you already have a character that can pull 35-40k dps or are an ESO millionaire.

Chrlynsch

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

[img][/img]


No gear or re-traiting feature in this picture requires any DLC or chapter (you can use transmutation stations even though you don´t own the clockwork city dlc). All is available through the base game. The jewelry of automaton as bought from Cyrodil vendor and not upgraded using the jewelry crafting feature.

[img][/img]

Nothing but light attacks and within the 35-40k DPS window as asked.

*Dislcaimer: My Pack-Leader morph is level 1, so if it was level 4 it would be even more damage.

That's a lot of gold gear. Could explain some of the disparity, as most of the people I know are running mainly purple gear with maybe one or two pieces golded out.

If these claims of "easy dps" are assuming fully or mostly golded gear, then I once again have to take issue with the use of the word "easy." Gold gear is not easy to get, unless you already have a character that can pull 35-40k dps or are an ESO millionaire.

Hold up, hold up, player has to log in in order to do dps.... not easy...

Skoomah

I honestly don’t get it. Even with a dedicated dlc to advertise the skill line, werewolves are still a pretty niche playstyle. Why do people complain about it so much...

Humanoid form players are all outputting 20-25% more dps than the light attack spam wolf, so what’s the big deal. If anything, the so called dps rotation is boring as hell, just light attacking.

You can spam imbue weapon with relequen, light attacks, and a few dots and get 25k dps no problem. I run with people who get 50-60k dps all the time, not in werewolf.

Also, don’t forget, werewolves don’t bring any real utility to a group other than a light attack spam. And why do you ask do wolves only light attack spam, because they only have 5 skills and one skill bar to work off of. In a dungeon run where I want to make it easy and faster, I take the humanoid players.

So what’s the issue here? Are the complainers actually players that play werewolf?

ZOS is too accomodating to people who call for nerfs that people have gotten to the point they want everything for free and don’t pay for it. How are they supposed to keep on the lights? It’s not easy raising enough capital ($300-400 million) to develop a game for half a decade and then hope it succeeds. Then when you finally turn a profit, players asks for silly stuff like getting everything for free. Wha???

Aznox

@Skoomah what drug are you smoking ?

Noone here is asking for a werewolf nerf or complaining about it's DPS being too high.

We are just explaining why PvE Werewolf DPS is currently in a great (niche) spot, and why ZoS will not do anything to buff it.

Skoomah

I only smoke the best high grade powdaaaah.

I only skimmed the thread but the part I read someone complained they had to buy dlcs to compete in this game.

That couldn’t be further from the truth. My current main setup uses crafted gear and base game gear. Wrecks everything.

DocFrost72

@Aznox @Chrlynsch Good stuff, both of you. Now to figure out why my wolf is pulling 5k less dps. My bet is purple gear (bar weapons) and low pen (planning for group buffs in dungeons and trials). Could also be berserker.

Skoomah wrote: »

I only smoke the best high grade powdaaaah.

I only skimmed the thread but the part I read someone complained they had to buy dlcs to compete in this game.

That couldn’t be further from the truth. My current main setup uses crafted gear and base game gear. Wrecks everything.

I don't know who you're talking about, but with that word the statement is correct. To my knowledge, there is no exception of score pushing stam dps not using relequen. Tanks use alkosh, and healers use olirime or spc, at barest minimum.

Aznox

@DocFrost72 give us a detailed listing of your build (mundus, traits, enchants, CP, etc..) and we will happily get you to 35k

Mr_Wolfe

DocFrost72 wrote: »

@Aznox @Chrlynsch Good stuff, both of you. Now to figure out why my wolf is pulling 5k less dps. My bet is purple gear (bar weapons) and low pen (planning for group buffs in dungeons and trials). Could also be berserker.

When I tested the Wolfhunter changes, I noticed about a 5k dps difference between Berserker and Pack Leader, so that could be it. I'm sure the gear quality is having an impact too.

Qbiken

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

[img][/img]


No gear or re-traiting feature in this picture requires any DLC or chapter (you can use transmutation stations even though you don´t own the clockwork city dlc). All is available through the base game. The jewelry of automaton as bought from Cyrodil vendor and not upgraded using the jewelry crafting feature.

[img][/img]

Nothing but light attacks and within the 35-40k DPS window as asked.

*Dislcaimer: My Pack-Leader morph is level 1, so if it was level 4 it would be even more damage.

That's a lot of gold gear. Could explain some of the disparity, as most of the people I know are running mainly purple gear with maybe one or two pieces golded out.

If these claims of "easy dps" are assuming fully or mostly golded gear, then I once again have to take issue with the use of the word "easy." Gold gear is not easy to get, unless you already have a character that can pull 35-40k dps or are an ESO millionaire.

[img][/img]

The difference between purple and gold hundings rage will be:
58 less crit
38 less stamina
11 less weapon damage
and 137 less penetration (since I used lover in the parses)

I can assure you, that I would´ve got almost identical DPS with purple gear. Gear quality has less impact that you think.

I just find it funny that me and a few others prove that it´s possible to achieve 35k+ DPS without any DLC or chapter and you guys still find excuses to why it´s not possible.

Replace automaton with Spriggan (a farmable and buyable overland set from base game) and you´ll get even more DPS than my setup.

ccmedaddy

Would Automaton+Night Mothers Gaze+Troll King be a decent VMA build for a beginner WW stamsorc? I'm also thinking about Chudan instead of TK.

Aznox

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Would Automaton+Night Mothers Gaze+Troll King be a decent VMA build for a beginner WW stamsorc? I'm also thinking about Chudan instead of TK.

i would start with something tanky like Troll king Pariah and automaton

Mr_Wolfe

Qbiken wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

[img][/img]


No gear or re-traiting feature in this picture requires any DLC or chapter (you can use transmutation stations even though you don´t own the clockwork city dlc). All is available through the base game. The jewelry of automaton as bought from Cyrodil vendor and not upgraded using the jewelry crafting feature.

[img][/img]

Nothing but light attacks and within the 35-40k DPS window as asked.

*Dislcaimer: My Pack-Leader morph is level 1, so if it was level 4 it would be even more damage.

That's a lot of gold gear. Could explain some of the disparity, as most of the people I know are running mainly purple gear with maybe one or two pieces golded out.

If these claims of "easy dps" are assuming fully or mostly golded gear, then I once again have to take issue with the use of the word "easy." Gold gear is not easy to get, unless you already have a character that can pull 35-40k dps or are an ESO millionaire.

[img][/img]

The difference between purple and gold hundings rage will be:
58 less crit
38 less stamina
11 less weapon damage
and 137 less penetration (since I used lover in the parses)

I can assure you, that I would´ve got almost identical DPS with purple gear. Gear quality has less impact that you think.

I just find it funny that me and a few others prove that it´s possible to achieve 35k+ DPS without any DLC or chapter and you guys still find excuses to why it´s not possible.

Replace automaton with Spriggan (a farmable and buyable overland set from base game) and you´ll get even more DPS than my setup.

I never said it's not possible. I said it's not as easy as you and a few others make it out to be.

Maybe instead of being condescending you could actually offer advice to help those who are trying to improve?

Skullstachio

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Would Automaton+Night Mothers Gaze+Troll King be a decent VMA build for a beginner WW stamsorc? I'm also thinking about Chudan instead of TK.

Probably wise to use mighty chudan, because in the MA, it will come in handy, I may also recommend bloodmoon and Toothrow (or leviathan if you use weapon crit potions) because as long as your weapon critical is above 50%, you will output a good chunk of damage on pretty much anything that gets in your way. (Perfect Strike and a couple of other champion skills, namely precise strikes, mighty, etc are also good contributing factors towards crit'ability effectiveness.)

AuldWolf

Chrlynsch wrote: »

No toggle please.

Is there any good reason to say that other than elitism?

No! Wait. Wait! Think about it before answering. I know it can be easy to rush for the impulsive answer, but actually have a bit of a think about it.

This kind of thinking is why MMOs are on their way out. They have been for a long time. The only people who can stand balance patches are those in giant guilds that grind high end dungeons all the time, for everyone else it destroys their build and they have to spend time grind everything back. Like Mr_Wolfe said, werewolf is in a weird place right now. If you can get the gear for it, it's overpowered, and that's only going to lead to more balance patches down the road to "bring it back into line."

What most people want is something sustainable and fun. Right now, what good is werewolf to the average person? I understand that it's good to the elitist, I get that. Woo, DPS! Let's ride the DPS train! Toot toot. Okay. Fine. But to the average player, what good is werewolf? And you have to consider them because they happen to be a lot of people and a lot of money.

It's no good.

Why?

This is why: oh god oh god do damage more damage more more more POUNCE damage damage POUNCE no loot no reading POUNCE damage damage damage POUNCE oh god oh god oh god this raid boss is destroying my face but i have to do damage or i'll revert oh god

Yeeeah.

It's anxiety fun times for everyone. You don't get to loot, you don't get to read quests, you don't get to explore. It's just this manic pouncing between foes and doing everything you can to keep werewolf up. And the less of an elitist player you are, the less access to resources you have, the more difficult that's going to be. That isn't fun. That along with the absence of looting and being able to listen to and enjoy quests means that werewolf is locked behind a wall of elite playstyles.

That's weird. I mean, werewolf could be one of the big selling points right now. But it's more like...

Play ESO, have fun being a werewolf!*

* [As a giant, flashing, neon sign.] Your mileage may vary as the only way to have fun with werewolf is if you're an elitist player who cares only about DPS, and doesn't really care about enjoying the story, exploring, or anything. Oh, and you'll have to go back through the dungeon when you're done to loot everything. FUN, right? Right? Fuuuun!

And that kind of ties into why MMOs are dying off. They only ever cater to the people who're a part of big guilds, with lots of grinding, and access to lots of resources. It's why no one's making any new MMOs, because they can't figure out how to make them successfully. Well, uh, that's not hard. You just look at what single-player games are doing, and realise that the elitist attitudes aren't very common. In fact, they're a pretty small niche.

So having lots of DPS is fine and all, but what werewolf lacks in favour of that is fun. Instead it's just a pile of anxiety.

People try werewolf, then drop it because it was designed with this elitism in mind. It means that the casual player just can't really have fun with being a werewolf in the way they'd want to. That's why Wolfhunter was more just salt in the wound than anything. Since it was a raid DLC, it really drove home the message that werewolf is only meant for elitist players in big guilds. And that kind of pandering is why MMOs aren't just on the way out, but they're already dead. ESO was the last themepark MMO. It's just riding the wave of its brand at the moment, but even ESO will go the same way as the rest, eventually.

Contemplative Finisher: The person who sinks 600 hours into Skyrim isn't worrying about DPS, they're having fun with the game, enjoying the story, rolling alts, and so on. That you can't have that kind of fun with ESO is why a lot of people end up really salty with it. It's just the curse of the MMO. And the elitist attitude about werewolf not having a toggle is just endemic of that, and of why MMOs are dead.

ESO's numbers are fluctuating wildly at the moment. They drop as low as 6~k sometimes when there's not new content being dropped, but when there is they can rise to 14~k. It feels like ZOS is just making a last, desperate push to cram out as much DLC and get as many people playing, and paying, until the game inevitably flops.

I hope whatever comes after MMOs won't fall prey to this problem.

Because, really, there's no good reason why things can't be fun. And, let's be honest, risk-reward systems resulting in unfair prestige were never good for any community. All it does is draw in people with dark triad traits. That's not a great thing for a video game community, it only leads to demanding more opportunities for unfair prestige, which all happens at the cost of everything else. Fun, the other players, stability, sustainability, everything.

But there's this obsession with DPS that comes before everything. Gotta be the best. Gotta win. Nothing else matters. Even in co-op environments. Gotta be the one who shows everyone else up. That's a very dark triad perspective and it's not healthy. Certainly doesn't make for a wholesome playing experience. This is why raids and PvP are so toxic.

So, yeah. It's literally putting the dark triad over fun. That's what's happening. And that's why these games never have a sustainable player base. It's more like a revolving door. Old people out, new people in, gotta keep attracting new people because that money's dropping off really fast! There's no reason under the purview of fun why werewolf can't operate via a toggle. The only perspective that would lead to that conclusion is a dark triad one out of fear that a toggle would mean less DPS and therefore less of a chance to show that one is the absolute best.

I'm sad for ESO, honestly. It has a lot of potential. It's also riddled with dark triad thinking and pandering. That's why I don't play it any more. I do mourn for it, though. I miss it. I already miss it. Because to me, so long as it has this dark triad focus, it's already dead. Because that's the end-point for any game that does this.

So, yeah, what's the reason werewolf shouldn't operate as a toggle?

Koolio

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Would Automaton+Night Mothers Gaze+Troll King be a decent VMA build for a beginner WW stamsorc? I'm also thinking about Chudan instead of TK.

I use Troll King heavy seventh legion and briarheart. It was a cakewalk. But expensive for briarheart jewelry.

Chrlynsch

AuldWolf wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

No toggle please.

Is there any good reason to say that other than elitism?

No! Wait. Wait! Think about it before answering. I know it can be easy to rush for the impulsive answer, but actually have a bit of a think about it.

This kind of thinking is why MMOs are on their way out. They have been for a long time. The only people who can stand balance patches are those in giant guilds that grind high end dungeons all the time, for everyone else it destroys their build and they have to spend time grind everything back. Like Mr_Wolfe said, werewolf is in a weird place right now. If you can get the gear for it, it's overpowered, and that's only going to lead to more balance patches down the road to "bring it back into line."

What most people want is something sustainable and fun. Right now, what good is werewolf to the average person? I understand that it's good to the elitist, I get that. Woo, DPS! Let's ride the DPS train! Toot toot. Okay. Fine. But to the average player, what good is werewolf? And you have to consider them because they happen to be a lot of people and a lot of money.

It's no good.

Why?

This is why: oh god oh god do damage more damage more more more POUNCE damage damage POUNCE no loot no reading POUNCE damage damage damage POUNCE oh god oh god oh god this raid boss is destroying my face but i have to do damage or i'll revert oh god

Yeeeah.

It's anxiety fun times for everyone. You don't get to loot, you don't get to read quests, you don't get to explore. It's just this manic pouncing between foes and doing everything you can to keep werewolf up. And the less of an elitist player you are, the less access to resources you have, the more difficult that's going to be. That isn't fun. That along with the absence of looting and being able to listen to and enjoy quests means that werewolf is locked behind a wall of elite playstyles.

That's weird. I mean, werewolf could be one of the big selling points right now. But it's more like...

Play ESO, have fun being a werewolf!*

* [As a giant, flashing, neon sign.] Your mileage may vary as the only way to have fun with werewolf is if you're an elitist player who cares only about DPS, and doesn't really care about enjoying the story, exploring, or anything. Oh, and you'll have to go back through the dungeon when you're done to loot everything. FUN, right? Right? Fuuuun!

And that kind of ties into why MMOs are dying off. They only ever cater to the people who're a part of big guilds, with lots of grinding, and access to lots of resources. It's why no one's making any new MMOs, because they can't figure out how to make them successfully. Well, uh, that's not hard. You just look at what single-player games are doing, and realise that the elitist attitudes aren't very common. In fact, they're a pretty small niche.

So having lots of DPS is fine and all, but what werewolf lacks in favour of that is fun. Instead it's just a pile of anxiety.

People try werewolf, then drop it because it was designed with this elitism in mind. It means that the casual player just can't really have fun with being a werewolf in the way they'd want to. That's why Wolfhunter was more just salt in the wound than anything. Since it was a raid DLC, it really drove home the message that werewolf is only meant for elitist players in big guilds. And that kind of pandering is why MMOs aren't just on the way out, but they're already dead. ESO was the last themepark MMO. It's just riding the wave of its brand at the moment, but even ESO will go the same way as the rest, eventually.

Contemplative Finisher: The person who sinks 600 hours into Skyrim isn't worrying about DPS, they're having fun with the game, enjoying the story, rolling alts, and so on. That you can't have that kind of fun with ESO is why a lot of people end up really salty with it. It's just the curse of the MMO. And the elitist attitude about werewolf not having a toggle is just endemic of that, and of why MMOs are dead.

ESO's numbers are fluctuating wildly at the moment. They drop as low as 6~k sometimes when there's not new content being dropped, but when there is they can rise to 14~k. It feels like ZOS is just making a last, desperate push to cram out as much DLC and get as many people playing, and paying, until the game inevitably flops.

I hope whatever comes after MMOs won't fall prey to this problem.

Because, really, there's no good reason why things can't be fun. And, let's be honest, risk-reward systems resulting in unfair prestige were never good for any community. All it does is draw in people with dark triad traits. That's not a great thing for a video game community, it only leads to demanding more opportunities for unfair prestige, which all happens at the cost of everything else. Fun, the other players, stability, sustainability, everything.

But there's this obsession with DPS that comes before everything. Gotta be the best. Gotta win. Nothing else matters. Even in co-op environments. Gotta be the one who shows everyone else up. That's a very dark triad perspective and it's not healthy. Certainly doesn't make for a wholesome playing experience. This is why raids and PvP are so toxic.

So, yeah. It's literally putting the dark triad over fun. That's what's happening. And that's why these games never have a sustainable player base. It's more like a revolving door. Old people out, new people in, gotta keep attracting new people because that money's dropping off really fast! There's no reason under the purview of fun why werewolf can't operate via a toggle. The only perspective that would lead to that conclusion is a dark triad one out of fear that a toggle would mean less DPS and therefore less of a chance to show that one is the absolute best.

I'm sad for ESO, honestly. It has a lot of potential. It's also riddled with dark triad thinking and pandering. That's why I don't play it any more. I do mourn for it, though. I miss it. I already miss it. Because to me, so long as it has this dark triad focus, it's already dead. Because that's the end-point for any game that does this.

So, yeah, what's the reason werewolf shouldn't operate as a toggle?

You don't even go here!

Chrlynsch

Chrlynsch wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

No toggle please.

Is there any good reason to say that other than elitism?

No! Wait. Wait! Think about it before answering. I know it can be easy to rush for the impulsive answer, but actually have a bit of a think about it.

This kind of thinking is why MMOs are on their way out. They have been for a long time. The only people who can stand balance patches are those in giant guilds that grind high end dungeons all the time, for everyone else it destroys their build and they have to spend time grind everything back. Like Mr_Wolfe said, werewolf is in a weird place right now. If you can get the gear for it, it's overpowered, and that's only going to lead to more balance patches down the road to "bring it back into line."

What most people want is something sustainable and fun. Right now, what good is werewolf to the average person? I understand that it's good to the elitist, I get that. Woo, DPS! Let's ride the DPS train! Toot toot. Okay. Fine. But to the average player, what good is werewolf? And you have to consider them because they happen to be a lot of people and a lot of money.

It's no good.

Why?

This is why: oh god oh god do damage more damage more more more POUNCE damage damage POUNCE no loot no reading POUNCE damage damage damage POUNCE oh god oh god oh god this raid boss is destroying my face but i have to do damage or i'll revert oh god

Yeeeah.

It's anxiety fun times for everyone. You don't get to loot, you don't get to read quests, you don't get to explore. It's just this manic pouncing between foes and doing everything you can to keep werewolf up. And the less of an elitist player you are, the less access to resources you have, the more difficult that's going to be. That isn't fun. That along with the absence of looting and being able to listen to and enjoy quests means that werewolf is locked behind a wall of elite playstyles.

That's weird. I mean, werewolf could be one of the big selling points right now. But it's more like...

Play ESO, have fun being a werewolf!*

* [As a giant, flashing, neon sign.] Your mileage may vary as the only way to have fun with werewolf is if you're an elitist player who cares only about DPS, and doesn't really care about enjoying the story, exploring, or anything. Oh, and you'll have to go back through the dungeon when you're done to loot everything. FUN, right? Right? Fuuuun!

And that kind of ties into why MMOs are dying off. They only ever cater to the people who're a part of big guilds, with lots of grinding, and access to lots of resources. It's why no one's making any new MMOs, because they can't figure out how to make them successfully. Well, uh, that's not hard. You just look at what single-player games are doing, and realise that the elitist attitudes aren't very common. In fact, they're a pretty small niche.

So having lots of DPS is fine and all, but what werewolf lacks in favour of that is fun. Instead it's just a pile of anxiety.

People try werewolf, then drop it because it was designed with this elitism in mind. It means that the casual player just can't really have fun with being a werewolf in the way they'd want to. That's why Wolfhunter was more just salt in the wound than anything. Since it was a raid DLC, it really drove home the message that werewolf is only meant for elitist players in big guilds. And that kind of pandering is why MMOs aren't just on the way out, but they're already dead. ESO was the last themepark MMO. It's just riding the wave of its brand at the moment, but even ESO will go the same way as the rest, eventually.

Contemplative Finisher: The person who sinks 600 hours into Skyrim isn't worrying about DPS, they're having fun with the game, enjoying the story, rolling alts, and so on. That you can't have that kind of fun with ESO is why a lot of people end up really salty with it. It's just the curse of the MMO. And the elitist attitude about werewolf not having a toggle is just endemic of that, and of why MMOs are dead.

ESO's numbers are fluctuating wildly at the moment. They drop as low as 6~k sometimes when there's not new content being dropped, but when there is they can rise to 14~k. It feels like ZOS is just making a last, desperate push to cram out as much DLC and get as many people playing, and paying, until the game inevitably flops.

I hope whatever comes after MMOs won't fall prey to this problem.

Because, really, there's no good reason why things can't be fun. And, let's be honest, risk-reward systems resulting in unfair prestige were never good for any community. All it does is draw in people with dark triad traits. That's not a great thing for a video game community, it only leads to demanding more opportunities for unfair prestige, which all happens at the cost of everything else. Fun, the other players, stability, sustainability, everything.

But there's this obsession with DPS that comes before everything. Gotta be the best. Gotta win. Nothing else matters. Even in co-op environments. Gotta be the one who shows everyone else up. That's a very dark triad perspective and it's not healthy. Certainly doesn't make for a wholesome playing experience. This is why raids and PvP are so toxic.

So, yeah. It's literally putting the dark triad over fun. That's what's happening. And that's why these games never have a sustainable player base. It's more like a revolving door. Old people out, new people in, gotta keep attracting new people because that money's dropping off really fast! There's no reason under the purview of fun why werewolf can't operate via a toggle. The only perspective that would lead to that conclusion is a dark triad one out of fear that a toggle would mean less DPS and therefore less of a chance to show that one is the absolute best.

I'm sad for ESO, honestly. It has a lot of potential. It's also riddled with dark triad thinking and pandering. That's why I don't play it any more. I do mourn for it, though. I miss it. I already miss it. Because to me, so long as it has this dark triad focus, it's already dead. Because that's the end-point for any game that does this.

So, yeah, what's the reason werewolf shouldn't operate as a toggle?

You don't even go here!

Ok now now that I thought about it for a second.

1. The Realism approach: Werewolves are supposed to be fuled by bloodrage. You shouldn't be reading books or turning in quests, heck in skyrim you couldn't even loot the bodies.

In other Elder scrolls games it always included a timer. Hunting with a pack increases your time in form and allows you to maintain your form for hours! If you want longer transformations join a pack.

2. The balance approach: PVP is large part of this game for some people and with pvp comes nessisary balance. The timer rewards players who can maintain their form. It punishes those who can't. A well built werewolf can be hard to take down and one advantage of fighting a lone wolf is they may loose that transformation at an inopportune moment.

Because fun works both ways. If one thing is over performing, you end up taking fun away from your enemies.

Qbiken

Edited because chrlynsch summarized my wall of text.

Mr_Wolfe

Personally, I like the hyperactive maul train that comes with being a werewolf in ESO. As odd as it may sound, I find it relaxing--at least in normal PvE. I may have a lot of complaints about how werewolf performs, but that's one thing the devs got right.

Qbiken

@Mr_Wolfe

An easy to get setup that doesn´t require too much dungeon content would be the following:

Hunding´s Rage
- Chest (Medium Divine with Max Stamina Enchant)
- Legs (Medium Divine with Max Stamina Enchant)
- Feet (Medium Divines with Max Stamina Enchant)
- Dual Wield Frontbar (Can go with whatever weapon you prefer. Personally I would go for daggers): You can make one weapon sharpened and the other one infused. On your sharpened main hand weapon you put a Increase weapon damage glyph and on your infused weapon you can put an absorb stamina enchant (for some extra sustain)
- Bow (Infused backbar, use whatever enchant you like here)

Spriggan´s Thorn
- 3 Jewellery (Weapon damage enchant on all in my opinion)
- Belt (Medium Divine with Max Stamina Enchant)
- Hands (Medium Divine with Max stamina Enchant)

Monster set (choose one of your liking):
- Selene´s
- Slimecraw


Hunding´s Rage is a good option since it´s craftable and therefore easier to get access to. If you don´t have enough traits researched to get it, it´s always possible to ask someone to craft it for you. Spriggan´s Thorn is farmable in Bangkorai and you can get the jewelleries by doing a few Dolmen´s and looting chests. You also have the option to buy Spriggan stuff from guild stores. While purple Spriggan jewellery can be a bit expensive, you´ll be fine with blue quality jewellery as well.

Compared to my setup with automaton you´ll have one less dungeon to farm and you don´t have to deal with RNG as much. Only dungeon you would have to do a bit of farming for would be Selene´s Web or Wayrest Sewers 1 (depending on which monster helm you want). This is probably the easiest setup to get that will push you over the 35k DPS mark.

Flame_of_Hades

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

[img][/img]


No gear or re-traiting feature in this picture requires any DLC or chapter (you can use transmutation stations even though you don´t own the clockwork city dlc). All is available through the base game. The jewelry of automaton as bought from Cyrodil vendor and not upgraded using the jewelry crafting feature.

[img][/img]

Nothing but light attacks and within the 35-40k DPS window as asked.

*Dislcaimer: My Pack-Leader morph is level 1, so if it was level 4 it would be even more damage.

That's a lot of gold gear. Could explain some of the disparity, as most of the people I know are running mainly purple gear with maybe one or two pieces golded out.

If these claims of "easy dps" are assuming fully or mostly golded gear, then I once again have to take issue with the use of the word "easy." Gold gear is not easy to get, unless you already have a character that can pull 35-40k dps or are an ESO millionaire.

currently about 35k gold to take an item from purple to gold (not counting jewelry, cause WOW), lets say 11 items, max, 35k x 11 = 385k gold. 385k gold = about 200k telvar. 200k tv / 14.4k from each IC boss = 13.88, so 14 bosses. that takes at max, 3 hours? if you are slow? (assuming you can solo the bosses, if not, it might take you slightly longer, but not much longer due to killing the bosses faster with friends, unless you kill them with 5-6+)

using my sNB, i can kill the bosses in about a min and a half, if they refuse to stop moving, using selenes, imperial phy, briarheart, and maelstrom bow, killing 14 bosses takes me about an hour, and alot of that time is spent waiting for the bosses to respawn.

or, if you do not have the dlc.

pvp for a week, open rewards for the worthy, and sell the spell strategist items you get from them. you will likely get about 300-1.5 mil gold, all depending on your RNG.

Mr_Wolfe

@Qbiken

Thanks, I appreciate the tip. Pretty sure I have those sets lying around, and I already have slimecraw and selene's sets in gold. (Slimecraw was actually the first monster helm I ever got, from my first time ever attempting a vet dungeon.)

For the record, my current PvE gear setup is:

Selene's
- Head: Gold, Medium, Divines, Tristat
- Shoulders: Gold, Medium, Divines, Max Stam

Shacklebreaker
- Chest: Gold, Heavy, Divines, Tristat
- Waist: Purple, Light, Divines, Max Stam
- Hands: Purple, Medium, Divines, Max Stam
- Legs: Purple, Medium, Divines, Tristat
- Feet: Purple, Medium, Divines, Max Stam

Hulking Draugr
Frontbar/WW Bar:
- Dagger: Gold, Infused, Weapon Damage
- Mace: Gold, Precise, Poison Damage

Backbar/Ulti-Gen Bar:
- Bow: Gold, Decisive, Disease Damage

Jewelry:
- Neck: Purple, Bloodthirsty, Stam Recovery
- Ring 1: Purple, Infused, Weapon damage
- Ring 2: Purple, Bloodthirsty, Weapon damage

As you can probably tell, I haven't finished enchanting/transmuting everything yet--though I have more gold pieces than I remembered. Planning on switching the Head, Chest, Leg, and Mace to Infused, putting a weapon damage glyph on the necklace, and maybe changing some of the weapon enchantments. Would also like to change the mace to either an axe or dagger eventually, but I'm still kinda burnt out on Direfrost after all the months I spent farming it.

This is the gear setup that I hit 25k with in werewolf, just after Wolfhunter dropped, and that was my highest parse. The rest ranged from 21k-24k. Gonna try to do another parse in a few days now that Murkmire's out, and if I can get a spriggan's/hundings's setup together I'll test that too, for comparison.