[Class Rep] Warden Feedback Thread

ESO_Nightingale

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

Does it bother anyone else that Lotus Flower forces you to choose between spell OR weapon critical? The netch supports hybrids and offers weapon AND spell damage. I would love to see Green Lotus offer both criticals, and Lotus Blossom offer something different entirely (such as healing 2 targets but for less hp, or granting minor resolve/ward to healed targets).

More definitely needs to be done with the skill. It should really always heal you along with another ally at base.

ESO_Nightingale

I saw the Nightblade feedback thread return, so i figured i'd bring back this official thread to talk about our current problems.

Currently, Magicka Warden has problems with healing and stunning in pvp and in pve when specifically building for frost dps.

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In PvP, Magicka Wardens have access to a wide variety of burst heals, but none of them are actually good enough to keep the magicka warden alive when healing themselves. right now our most reliable 1GCD burst heal is Blessing of Restoration which is not a paticularly strong self heal, every other option is worse, or arctic blast, which has other utility. Our healing was designed around major mending being really easily accessable to us. however, the healing nerfs to the game, to major mending and arctic wind have left us in the ground. I'm okay with Arctic Wind's healing being nerfed, because when it was as powerful as it was, it promoted doubling down on tankiness in order to heal, which felt bad to fight against because you'd have these huge hp wardens that were basically unkillable. now, they can barely heal at all with this skill unless they build into it so much that they lose damage. which i believe is good. since i don't think arctic blast should heal in the first place. however, our green balance 1gcd burst healing options are quite bad. Mushrooms is good as a group heal and helps sutain a bit, but it costs as much as breath of life while healing an amount of health in-between combat prayer and blessing of restoration. both of these skills cost less than it and offer utility as well. Living Trellis on the other hand costs more than half of a solid burst heal, but heals half of that burst heal. in practice, spamming living trellis as your main burst heal is genuinely a bad idea against most forms of punishment because it takes 2 gcds just to heal as much as a 1 gcd on other classes. Budding Seeds is also the same, you first have to place it, and then recast it for 2 gcds.
While i don't think that we should have a burst heal that is as powerful as resistant flesh or breath of life, i do think we should one that is able to equal the base amount of those skills with major mending procced. This is the same burst healing that Healing Thicket does for reference. i believe that Enchanted Growth or Living Trellis are the 2 best options for this type of buff. Enchanted Growth costs the same as those burst heals, but heals several targets. if it was able to burst heal the caster for about 20% more healing, that would work quite well. or, Living Trellis could use a cost increase and a 65% or so buff to reach that same amount.

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Arctic Blast feels pretty rough to use as your only stun. Magicka Warden has always desired an offensive stun in order to kill, but flame clench is our only offensive option. it forces us to run the fire staff, thus restricting build options, while also knocking enemies away and possibly out of our shalks. When it comes to our only other stun option, arctic blast, it's a defensive stun which means it benefits melee range more, and thus stamina warden which already had access to a couple of decent enough offensive stuns. it's unpredicability on if it'll hit or not is also rather frustrating when trying to line up combos with it. We need an offensive stun. Not an obnoxious defensive one. It isn't like permafrost anymore. That ultimate was for large aoe lockdowns and was suitable on an ultimate. However, with a range of 6 meters it becomes a different type of stun, more defensive in nature that becomes completely overwhelming with any more additional range. It's simply not a good idea to keep it as is. Arctic Blast SHOULD be a damage and offensive stun skill that combos well with deep fissure and can be used in both pvp and pve, with it's heal entirely removed. This is because magicka wardens have desired a new frost damaging class skill for a very long time. we have a lot of raw bonus damage modifiers in the class such as magic damage, minor berserk and minor vulnerability that can be reduced or replaced in order to balance such a new skill, though keeping it's cost as is will serve to balance it as well.

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Deep Fissure is now a lot less effective as an option in pve. this is because subterranean assault outclasses it in a couple of ways.
1: it doesn't have to be recast every 3 seconds. this is an additional GCD every 6 seconds which can be used for a spammable or another cast. This leads to more damage over time because subterranean assault now has better scaling on magicka warden due to the hybrid changes.
2: it no longer costs any magicka at all and is based on your off stat, massively improving sustain which is not very good on magicka warden otherwise.
3: it has a better damage type that applies a useful status effect in poisoned.

the Frost Damage Shalks suggestion would at the very least benefit Frost DPS Magicka Warden while barely changing anything else for other types of warden builds, except for war maiden builds. however, this set is still really useful for nightblades and templars anyway.

this change does the following

1: increases chilled proc chance in both the rotation and in aoe. this helps keep the uptime higher in groups which is another reason you would take magicka warden as your brittle applier since it can uniquely keep brittle uptime higher in aoe than other classes.
2: it benefits more sets like ysgramor's birthright and frostbite. frostbite is okay right now but it's problem is the same as ysgramor's birthright. there's a massive lack of frost damage skills to take advantage of these sets and even on the frost class we currently only use one frost damage class skill in winter's revenge.

It would likely still lead to a loss in DPS because of how powerful subterranean assault is, but a gain in group utility just by changing it's damage type to frost from magic.

these are the main problems for the mag version of the class at the moment. but there are other ones i haven't listed because they don't take priority like these ones do.

LeHarrt91

I agree that none of the class burst heals for MagDen are enough for pvp in the current state of the game, when compared to some of the other classes.
And we are still in need of an instant cast stun, that doesn’t knock the target out of range of our Shalk.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

I agree that none of the class burst heals for MagDen are enough for pvp in the current state of the game, when compared to some of the other classes.
And we are still in need of an instant cast stun, that doesn’t knock the target out of range of our Shalk.

Yep. When you compare other classes it's night and day. But we get gatekept because we play warden and it's a DLC class.

ESO_Nightingale

Some more minor problems are:

Dive is an incredibly awkward spammable to use due to it's minimum travel time and it's range based proc conditions feel bad to use because you are punished against melee opponents that try to close the distance to get to you. It's not like warden has a disengaging tool like old magnum shot. Nor does it need one.

Lotus Flower(and morphs), Nature's Grasp(and morphs) and Frozen Retreat are all incredibly underwhelming.

Lotus flower's morphs feel like a base skill function split into 2 morphs. There is no interesting morph effect nor much of a reason to use this skill on a dps since it doesn't offer anything for dps that isn't already easily obtained, costs a gcd, has a short duration and feels bland. The cool glowing animation for green lotus is not present on lotus blossom.

Nature's Grasp recived a very big nerf a long time ago and never recived much of if any compensation. For a skill that forced a reposition a larger heal seemed fair. The projectile speed is incredibly slow and the bursting vines morph does not even heal the caster. The heal over time is roughly the same as radiating regen which is okay. But not hugely worth slotting anymore since the downside of requiring a friendly target forces teamplay in order to gain any benefit from the skill at all.

Frozen Retreat. No-one uses this morph. Most people don't even know it exists. the synergy is cool in theory but the base skill doesnt help it much at all. I don't even know what this should be reworked into. But it's currently one of, if not, the least used morphs in the game.

Corrupting Pollen isn't used too much anymore due to the nerfs to major defile and the skill directly, along with the existance of budding seeds. I don't think this morph would be missed if it was reworked. In which case it'd make for a really cool stamden bleed AoE DoT for pve with some added healer utility which would breathe some more life into the identity of the 2 dps archetypes.

Northern Storm is a collosal damage loss compared to bear. That's mostly a bear problem, but not entirely. Since the major and minor nerfs the major protection got heavily reduced in power and northern storm no longer sees much use outside of groups in PvP. The skill needs some kind of help. This could be any number of changes. A duration increase to 12 seconds like it's other morph, permafrost, a cost reduction to 150 ultimate, the introduction of major brittle onto it (would likely be used in trials in-between warhorns to keep up the 20% buff), replacement/buff of the 15% max magicka bonus for something more powerful or something else. There's a lot of options to help this ultimate out.

Wild Guardian
This morph sort of has no reason to exist anymore since the damage type conversion to physical is a damage loss because of piercing cold's magic bonus. It'd probably be better to be converted into bleed damage while offering some other type of utility that would warrent it's use.
Although It'd be interesting if this morph no longer summoned a pet, but instead was an AoE Burst ultimate similar to dawnbreaker. Or also think the selenes proc. If it retained it's cheap cost but only had the guardian's wrath portion of the skill (but in aoe) that would definitely see use in pvp but it's not strictly necessary. Just more of a random idea to throw out there.

Syrpynt

Pretty please:

1.) Grey Bear skin --> expand to other skills.

• Cliffracer --> Small Gryphon
• Shalk --> Snakes or Roots (think Mazzatun final boss)
• Betty Netch --> Imp or Nyxad or Ice Wraith

Would pay for individual skins. I really dislike Morrowind themed creatures for my summons. I love druid style characters, but I'll never use anything beyond the Bear Ult or Fetcherflies because it doesn't go with my aesthetic. *Fashion scrolls online* lol

2.) Make more sets for stamina healers if you're going to keep stamina morphs for Green Balance skills.

Edit: clarification.

ESO_Nightingale

Syrpynt wrote: »

Pretty please:

1.) Grey Bear skin --> expand to other skills.

• Cliffracer --> Small Gryphon
• Shalk --> Snakes or Roots (think Mazzatun final boss)
• Betty Netch --> Imp or Nyxad or Ice Wraith

Would pay for individual skins. I really dislike Morrowind themed creatures for my summons. I love druid style characters, but I'll never use anything beyond the Bear Ult or Fetcherflies because it doesn't go with my aesthetic. *Fashion scrolls online* lol

2.) Make more sets for stamina healers if you're going to keep stamina morphs for Green Balance skills.

Edit: clarification.

would be nice.

Greek_Hellspawn

1. Give magden a reliable burst self heal that needs 1 gcd costs magicka and scales from max magicka and spell damage, i mean come on even night blade who is meant to have cloak instead of burst heal got one.
2. Make arctic blast a totally different skill, the other morph should be the defensive morph which offers heals and make this morph have no heal nor hot, reduced cost, increased damage, increased duration and damaging enemy they get stunned every 2 times instead of 3.
Imo this would be enough to make magden viable in pvp.

ESO_Nightingale

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

1. Give magden a reliable burst self heal that needs 1 gcd costs magicka and scales from max magicka and spell damage, i mean come on even night blade who is meant to have cloak instead of burst heal got one.
2. Make arctic blast a totally different skill, the other morph should be the defensive morph which offers heals and make this morph have no heal nor hot, reduced cost, increased damage, increased duration and damaging enemy they get stunned every 2 times instead of 3.
Imo this would be enough to make magden viable in pvp.

I agree with everything but the stun portion of the idea. we need a ranged offensive class stun that goes to our enemy that keeps them still, having to rely on close range for the stun to work is simply frustrating and forces us to be up within 6 meters of the target in order to first stun them. I think the damage being in a 6 meter range is fine personally, since it's not a CC. but the stun is limiting from that range, it's still better for stamden at that point since they run melee weapons. you need to be able to stun an enemy from a far enough distance away so that you can gap close a bit/stop them from moving. magicka warden is or, was generally a mid to melee ranged class that relied on a ranged stun since you want to ensure you can position your shalks to be able to hit the enemy. the Screaming Cliff Racer spammable has no synergy with the class nearly at all with it's minimum travel time. it makes it feel genuinely awful and downright punishing at times to use when in melee range since it's so slow and only gains additional benefits when at a certain distance away from the target. the off balance effect feels shoehorned in for no reason as well. I mean sure, off balance can be consumed with a heavy attack to stun a target, but not when you have to use an awful spammable AND be a specific distance from the target.

Magicka Warden doesn't have a coherent design. it literally has no idea on what it wants to do. It has the "basic fundamentals" a spammable, a single target DoT and an AoE DoT. it then has one singular defining skill in deep fissure and no expansion upon that playstyle. I think it should double down on an "AoE Frontal Burst" playstyle with deep fissure remaining at it's core, with arctic blast contributing to that, while also bridging the gap between fissure and northern storm which would then allow the magicka warden to act as a moving blizzard during the ultimate, playing into that and giving some pressure with that frontal burst. we really also need new frost damage skill that we can use in both pvp and pve that helps to seperate us a bit from other classes in terms of visual and gameplay identity.

That is where the AB4.0 rework idea comes in.

LeHarrt91

I will mostly talk about Magicka Warden in PvP. In PvE I don't think its in a bad spot but as a DPS it doesn't bring much to the group anymore unless your a BrittleDen (which still needs some love)

I agree with a lot of what has been said above, I feel we took a huge hit when they nerfed Major and Minor Buffs our defense, healing and Damage all got hit simultaneously, since that was our whole gimmick and add on top of that the increased healing reduction added to Battlespirit, other Class skill nerfs, and we can barely heal ourselves with class abilities. Where as there are a few other classes that have burst heals that are double what we can achieve and their heal is instant where as several of the wardens skills have a 2s GCD, plus shields are to expensive and weak to use anymore.
We have to push Max Health builds to be able to get a Instant Burst Heal in Arctic Blast and in doing so sacrifice our damage and other Healing capabilities.

As stated above Lotus morphs should be combined since hybridization is what Zos wants and have 1 heal morph and the other damage.
I really dislike the Natures Grasp skills because you have to throw the vine then pull yourself and usually you are either dead by the time the vine reaches the target or the target is out of range and you don't get pulled. I think Bursting should be made an instant heal which can target yourself and Embrace should be instantly launch yourself at the target (like any other Charge skill).
Living Trellis use to be a good skill, but with all the nerfs to Major/ Minor Buffs and the skill getting nerfed directly it barely heals anymore, it cant be relied on as a good burst heal. This skill having a 2s GCD is fine as you keep it up like a buff, but burst heal at the end is not enough.

The MagDen is in dire need of a reliable Stun. Arctic requires you to be on top of the target and takes 3 consecutive hits to finally stun, and Flame Clench will often knock the target out of Shalks range (also we get no buff for Flame Damage) and we shouldn't rely on a set to stun for us (looking at you Dark Convergence). An instant ranged stun that deals some damage is essentially required at this point, and there have been many good ideas out there.

Sleet Storm and its morphs could do with a bit of a buff, Permafrost less so but with the nerf to Major Protection its not as potent an Ultimate anymore. It would be amazing to be able to use Northern Storm in PvE over the Bear (for Trials where AoE is preferred) but its still to weak compared to other Ultimate's.

I still feel the Eternal Guardian morphs respawn effect is useless. I honestly can't recall noticing it work. It would be nice if it got an updated morph effect. Since in a lot of situations, from when they buffed Pets, the Bear doesn't take damage.
Again as stated above the Cliff Racer skill needs an increased travel time, and an updated animation would be nice, it still feel clunky to weave.
I don't know if increasing Advanced Species passive back to 3% would be a good thing for PvE or StamDen in PvP, but MagDen doesn't slot too many animal companion skills in PvP anymore (also not too many MagDen's in PvP anymore), so were not getting much from this passive.

So in summary it feels bad to play a Magicka Warden in PvP at the moment, lack of burst healing and a stun to secure kills is really hurting them. I know some of this issue is also Magicka in general, with weak shields and Armor Penalties, but it especially goes for MagDen.

Whiskey_JG

I'm not much of a PvPer so I will limit my comments to PVE. The warden class seems to have gone quite a journey since it's introduction in the morrowind expansion and it's identity seems to have gone the full circle, through the various changes Zos keeps doing.

To me it seems that Zos does not know exactly what to do with the class. The stam morphs of most skills seem to focus on animals/poison/physical dmg whilst the magicka morphs are a supposed to be frost related in terms of theme. However I would say that the theme the class is developed around, doesnt exactly fit within the game's logic.

Stamden: why dont the stam morphs of warden skills deal bleed damage instead of poison or physical damage? Why only cutting dive is able to stack bleeds (and why during off balance times? - i have yet to meet someone that keeps track of off-balance in actual trials). Furthermore, with the recent buffs to weapon abilities such as Carve or Stampede, Stamdens have to rely on other skills lines for decent damage as apart from Sub assault, all other skills can be easily replaced with others that do more dmg. So the Stamden identity is slowly being eroded. I would kindly urge Zos to rethink the class and focus on its core aspects.

Magden: although currently Magdens are somewhat preferred in end game than their stamina counterparts (due to ridiculous penetration restrictions) they are still a confusing class. Their skills are a mixture of animal/frost skills but neither at the same time. With the recent additions of Frostbite set and Frost reach, it seems that ZoS is finally considering Frostden a class on its own separate from other Magdens. This is something the community has been asking for however there is a mismatch between Frost damage as a concept and Frost as a whole in the game. For some reason Zos went down the route that Frost should be tank related rather than dps related. So we are now in a situation where Frostdens want to use Frostbite to be caretakers of minor brittle, but their ice staves reduce their dps, which doesnt make much sense. Furthermore Deep fissure and Cliff racer dont follow the same logic, these skills should produce frost damage.

I love this class so much but I think the identity of wardens is all over the place and it would benefit from a redesign and/OR making a purely dedicated Ice Class which would in turn have its own stam/mag morphs.

oterWitz

I've been thinking about the bear problem since there was another little thread created about it, especially the comment that there's really no point to the stam morph because the mag morph does more damage from the Piercing Cold passive. Additionally, using the bear can be rather clunky in a variety of situations: from stunning mobs at the wrong time (though I've found the stun to be clutch on multiple occasions), to the derpy pathing as it chases adds around during a boss fight or stays fighting an immune boss during a multi-stage fight. All that being said, it does good passive damage and overall I don't think the mag morph should be reworked because it does come in very handy and is one of warden's core class skills.

Here's some notes on my idea for a rework of the stam morph:
First, rather than being a double slot pet, I think it should be a short term summon like a necro pet. I think the ultimate to summon should remain on the cheap side though, with a possible second tier if more ultimate is used (like with Incap). Because it's cheap, it should only last a short time, and be stationary so the time isn't wasted derpily chasing random targets. I'm also leaning toward having it do bleed damage from a bite attack, as this will stay more in line with it being the "stam" morph, for people who care about the rp aspect, though I know the lines between "stam" and "mag" specs are becoming ever blurrier. Also, the idea for this comes from discussions about warden needing a better burst ultimate, including elements of the Selene's monster set (though I think this should be a corporeal bear, just like the pet but short duration), NB's Incap, Sorc's Atro, and Werewolf skills.

Here's a rough write-up:
Call Wild Guardian
Cost: 75 Ultimate or so
Cast Time: Instant (and I mean a REAL instant cast )
Range: 28 meters
Radius: 5 meters or so
Duration: 10-20 seconds, somewhere in there
Call a wild grizzly to fight by your side for a short time. The grizzly bites at a nearby enemy, dealing [X] bleeding damage per bite, and up to 100% more damage to enemies below 50% health. While standing near the grizzly, you gain [X] weapon and spell damage.
If cast with 150 or more ultimate, the grizzly instead does up to 300% more damage to enemies below 50% health.

ESO_Nightingale

oterWitz wrote: »

I've been thinking about the bear problem since there was another little thread created about it, especially the comment that there's really no point to the stam morph because the mag morph does more damage from the Piercing Cold passive. Additionally, using the bear can be rather clunky in a variety of situations: from stunning mobs at the wrong time (though I've found the stun to be clutch on multiple occasions), to the derpy pathing as it chases adds around during a boss fight or stays fighting an immune boss during a multi-stage fight. All that being said, it does good passive damage and overall I don't think the mag morph should be reworked because it does come in very handy and is one of warden's core class skills.

Here's some notes on my idea for a rework of the stam morph:
First, rather than being a double slot pet, I think it should be a short term summon like a necro pet. I think the ultimate to summon should remain on the cheap side though, with a possible second tier if more ultimate is used (like with Incap). Because it's cheap, it should only last a short time, and be stationary so the time isn't wasted derpily chasing random targets. I'm also leaning toward having it do bleed damage from a bite attack, as this will stay more in line with it being the "stam" morph, for people who care about the rp aspect, though I know the lines between "stam" and "mag" specs are becoming ever blurrier. Also, the idea for this comes from discussions about warden needing a better burst ultimate, including elements of the Selene's monster set (though I think this should be a corporeal bear, just like the pet but short duration), NB's Incap, Sorc's Atro, and Werewolf skills.

Here's a rough write-up:
Call Wild Guardian
Cost: 75 Ultimate or so
Cast Time: Instant (and I mean a REAL instant cast )
Range: 28 meters
Radius: 5 meters or so
Duration: 10-20 seconds, somewhere in there
Call a wild grizzly to fight by your side for a short time. The grizzly bites at a nearby enemy, dealing [X] bleeding damage per bite, and up to 100% more damage to enemies below 50% health. While standing near the grizzly, you gain [X] weapon and spell damage.
If cast with 150 or more ultimate, the grizzly instead does up to 300% more damage to enemies below 50% health.

just about anything could work to be honest. a single barred bear ultimate that can be used in pvp is highly desireable, though i'd personally hope it is more burst focused instead of with DoTs.

LeHarrt91

oterWitz wrote: »

I've been thinking about the bear problem since there was another little thread created about it, especially the comment that there's really no point to the stam morph because the mag morph does more damage from the Piercing Cold passive. Additionally, using the bear can be rather clunky in a variety of situations: from stunning mobs at the wrong time (though I've found the stun to be clutch on multiple occasions), to the derpy pathing as it chases adds around during a boss fight or stays fighting an immune boss during a multi-stage fight. All that being said, it does good passive damage and overall I don't think the mag morph should be reworked because it does come in very handy and is one of warden's core class skills.

Here's some notes on my idea for a rework of the stam morph:
First, rather than being a double slot pet, I think it should be a short term summon like a necro pet. I think the ultimate to summon should remain on the cheap side though, with a possible second tier if more ultimate is used (like with Incap). Because it's cheap, it should only last a short time, and be stationary so the time isn't wasted derpily chasing random targets. I'm also leaning toward having it do bleed damage from a bite attack, as this will stay more in line with it being the "stam" morph, for people who care about the rp aspect, though I know the lines between "stam" and "mag" specs are becoming ever blurrier. Also, the idea for this comes from discussions about warden needing a better burst ultimate, including elements of the Selene's monster set (though I think this should be a corporeal bear, just like the pet but short duration), NB's Incap, Sorc's Atro, and Werewolf skills.

Here's a rough write-up:
Call Wild Guardian
Cost: 75 Ultimate or so
Cast Time: Instant (and I mean a REAL instant cast )
Range: 28 meters
Radius: 5 meters or so
Duration: 10-20 seconds, somewhere in there
Call a wild grizzly to fight by your side for a short time. The grizzly bites at a nearby enemy, dealing [X] bleeding damage per bite, and up to 100% more damage to enemies below 50% health. While standing near the grizzly, you gain [X] weapon and spell damage.
If cast with 150 or more ultimate, the grizzly instead does up to 300% more damage to enemies below 50% health.

A single bar morph would be great, since in some trials AoE is preferred and you could just backbar destro ulti and still have bear on front to cast when single target is better and it could see more use in PvP since having to double bar it, you lose a defensive backbar ulti.

thedoublegee_

I have a question about my frostden, so I'm hoping this would fit here.

I'm looking at the tooltip for destructive reach vs screaming cliff racer with a frost staff equipped, and Reach still has about half of what is showing for cliff racer. Is this right? Is the recent buff not shown in the tooltip, but taken into consideration later?

LeHarrt91

thedoublegee_ wrote: »

I have a question about my frostden, so I'm hoping this would fit here.

I'm looking at the tooltip for destructive reach vs screaming cliff racer with a frost staff equipped, and Reach still has about half of what is showing for cliff racer. Is this right? Is the recent buff not shown in the tooltip, but taken into consideration later?

Are you sure you have the Frost Reach morph? and not Clench or base skill? its only the Reach morph that got buffed.

thedoublegee_

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

thedoublegee_ wrote: »

I have a question about my frostden, so I'm hoping this would fit here.

I'm looking at the tooltip for destructive reach vs screaming cliff racer with a frost staff equipped, and Reach still has about half of what is showing for cliff racer. Is this right? Is the recent buff not shown in the tooltip, but taken into consideration later?

Are you sure you have the Frost Reach morph? and not Clench or base skill? its only the Reach morph that got buffed.

Yep. I even removed the skill and re-added it thinking that since I morphed it before the update that it hadn't received the buff, but even after doing that, it's still showing the same tooltip.

LeHarrt91

thedoublegee_ wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

thedoublegee_ wrote: »

I have a question about my frostden, so I'm hoping this would fit here.

I'm looking at the tooltip for destructive reach vs screaming cliff racer with a frost staff equipped, and Reach still has about half of what is showing for cliff racer. Is this right? Is the recent buff not shown in the tooltip, but taken into consideration later?

Are you sure you have the Frost Reach morph? and not Clench or base skill? its only the Reach morph that got buffed.

Yep. I even removed the skill and re-added it thinking that since I morphed it before the update that it hadn't received the buff, but even after doing that, it's still showing the same tooltip.

Slotting Cliff Racer will add % more damage due to passives but it shouldn't be double Frost Reach's tooltip. Are you able to take a screenshot of the two skills. I generally have 9k+ tooltip on Reach without any buffs, (this is with Frostbite equipped tho)

thedoublegee_

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

thedoublegee_ wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

thedoublegee_ wrote: »

I have a question about my frostden, so I'm hoping this would fit here.

I'm looking at the tooltip for destructive reach vs screaming cliff racer with a frost staff equipped, and Reach still has about half of what is showing for cliff racer. Is this right? Is the recent buff not shown in the tooltip, but taken into consideration later?

Are you sure you have the Frost Reach morph? and not Clench or base skill? its only the Reach morph that got buffed.

Yep. I even removed the skill and re-added it thinking that since I morphed it before the update that it hadn't received the buff, but even after doing that, it's still showing the same tooltip.

Slotting Cliff Racer will add % more damage due to passives but it shouldn't be double Frost Reach's tooltip. Are you able to take a screenshot of the two skills. I generally have 9k+ tooltip on Reach without any buffs, (this is with Frostbite equipped tho)

Yeah, I just took some. Now tbf, he's specced with healer CP, but wearing frostbite body, masters frost FB and maelstrom bb. With iceheart and fg. I'm building CP for him to be a DD, but didn't want to keep paying to change CP back and forth as he's my second healer after my templar.

Edit: so I tried posting the Imgur link, but that didn't work I'll try again in a second.

thedoublegee_

LeHarrt91

thedoublegee_ wrote: »

Are these showing up?

No i cannot see anything.

thedoublegee_

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

thedoublegee_ wrote: »

Are these showing up?

No i cannot see anything.

Just edited the previous post. Should be there now.

LeHarrt91

thedoublegee_ wrote: »

Check the tooltip of the skill on your active bar with a frost staff equipped. The tooltip in the destruction skill tree often defaults to base skill.

thedoublegee_

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

thedoublegee_ wrote: »

Check the tooltip of the skill on your active bar with a frost staff equipped. The tooltip in the destruction skill tree often defaults to base skill.

AH! Thank you so much. I definitely didn't even think to check like that. Which was funny, because I was confused about how I was seeing "frost reach" posted in other places.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

oterWitz wrote: »

I've been thinking about the bear problem since there was another little thread created about it, especially the comment that there's really no point to the stam morph because the mag morph does more damage from the Piercing Cold passive. Additionally, using the bear can be rather clunky in a variety of situations: from stunning mobs at the wrong time (though I've found the stun to be clutch on multiple occasions), to the derpy pathing as it chases adds around during a boss fight or stays fighting an immune boss during a multi-stage fight. All that being said, it does good passive damage and overall I don't think the mag morph should be reworked because it does come in very handy and is one of warden's core class skills.

Here's some notes on my idea for a rework of the stam morph:
First, rather than being a double slot pet, I think it should be a short term summon like a necro pet. I think the ultimate to summon should remain on the cheap side though, with a possible second tier if more ultimate is used (like with Incap). Because it's cheap, it should only last a short time, and be stationary so the time isn't wasted derpily chasing random targets. I'm also leaning toward having it do bleed damage from a bite attack, as this will stay more in line with it being the "stam" morph, for people who care about the rp aspect, though I know the lines between "stam" and "mag" specs are becoming ever blurrier. Also, the idea for this comes from discussions about warden needing a better burst ultimate, including elements of the Selene's monster set (though I think this should be a corporeal bear, just like the pet but short duration), NB's Incap, Sorc's Atro, and Werewolf skills.

Here's a rough write-up:
Call Wild Guardian
Cost: 75 Ultimate or so
Cast Time: Instant (and I mean a REAL instant cast )
Range: 28 meters
Radius: 5 meters or so
Duration: 10-20 seconds, somewhere in there
Call a wild grizzly to fight by your side for a short time. The grizzly bites at a nearby enemy, dealing [X] bleeding damage per bite, and up to 100% more damage to enemies below 50% health. While standing near the grizzly, you gain [X] weapon and spell damage.
If cast with 150 or more ultimate, the grizzly instead does up to 300% more damage to enemies below 50% health.

A single bar morph would be great, since in some trials AoE is preferred and you could just backbar destro ulti and still have bear on front to cast when single target is better and it could see more use in PvP since having to double bar it, you lose a defensive backbar ulti.

100%. Since wild guardian does basically nothing now, it only makes sense.

Eweejy

From a PvP perspective and someone who mains a Warden 90% of the time;

#1: No class CC (Imo - shards could easily be a CC, similar to the DK's talons) The slow down + minimal damage output of the current shards is pretty useless tbh)

#2: Animal Companions line could use some rework. The bird is slow, easy to dodge, and lacks power, swarm is slightly better but still isnt great unless you make a DoT build. The animal companions passive dmg bonus of 2% per A.C. ability slotted is less than the Fighter's guild 3% bonus passive - So I end up never use Bird/Swarm and instead always go with silver shards and other Fighters Guild abilities instead.

#2.1: Even the primary damage ultimate Perma/Northern storm seem somewhat lacking as opposed to Eye of the storm on the destro ult.

Long story short, the Warden's offensive abilities fall short compared to other options available via different sub-class & weapon lines (big fan of the Warden heals though, albeit for coordinated play it seems Warden healers take a backseat to the other classes... Templars/Necros/NB and even sorcs are becoming the primary heal classes)

LeHarrt91

Yeah points 1,2 and 3 seem to be main points of concern for warden mains.

Eweejy wrote: »

(big fan of the Warden heals though, albeit for coordinated play it seems Warden healers take a backseat to the other classes... Templars/Necros/NB and even sorcs are becoming the primary heal classes)

Is this in reference to group play? Healing yourself if solo is hard nowadays as we don't have a good instant burst heal anymore (hopefully that gets addressed in upcoming updates)

ESO_Nightingale

Eweejy wrote: »

From a PvP perspective and someone who mains a Warden 90% of the time;

#1: No class CC (Imo - shards could easily be a CC, similar to the DK's talons) The slow down + minimal damage output of the current shards is pretty useless tbh)

#2: Animal Companions line could use some rework. The bird is slow, easy to dodge, and lacks power, swarm is slightly better but still isnt great unless you make a DoT build. The animal companions passive dmg bonus of 2% per A.C. ability slotted is less than the Fighter's guild 3% bonus passive - So I end up never use Bird/Swarm and instead always go with silver shards and other Fighters Guild abilities instead.

#2.1: Even the primary damage ultimate Perma/Northern storm seem somewhat lacking as opposed to Eye of the storm on the destro ult.

Long story short, the Warden's offensive abilities fall short compared to other options available via different sub-class & weapon lines (big fan of the Warden heals though, albeit for coordinated play it seems Warden healers take a backseat to the other classes... Templars/Necros/NB and even sorcs are becoming the primary heal classes)

We have a class hard cc via arctic blast and a soft cc via gripping shards. The problem is that arctic blast is a defensive stun that we never needed because it simply doesn't fit well with our playstyle. It was retained from the permafrost rework. But due to the nature of the radius and the uptime the purpose of it had changed to be obnoxious to both use and play against.

It should be reworked to be an offensive ranged stun with no healing, but increased damage potential via aoe burst damage on the stun component and additional DoT duration to make it useful in pve as well.

In terms of healing, the class is only really good at healing others. Not itself. Because it's 1 GCD burst healing options cannot compete with blessing of restoration and definitely not other class burst heals.

For animal companions, yes, dive would probably do best with an entire rework since the spammable has literally nothing mechanically to do with the class which is awful design. It's definitely too slow with it's minimum travel time and it's range based effects only hurt it further as you are punished against melee ranged opponents. Swarm is fine as an ST DoT but it's boring. The fetcher infection bonus damage on 2nd cast also makes no sense.

The wild guardian morph of bear is now useless compared to eternal guardian and deep fissure should deal frost damage to better synergise with the mag version of the class. Not to mention it's also completely outclassed by subterranean assault next patch in pve on said mag version of the class.

Northern Storm is definitely pretty weaker now which sucks. It does deserve a buff. I think a cost reduction would be pretty deserved.

Tivnael

As a Magicka Frost Warden main , here my PvP feedback (I barely do Group content PvE), my Major Pain Points are:

1. Lack off class based stun ability
2. Lack of Execute

There is a lot of potential in Winters Embrace Skill line (e.g. Northern Storm! It has deserved a buff since Major Protection and Minor/Major Maim nerfs!
Finally make Arctic Blast purely offensive and a stun (like before)
Turn Frozen Retreat (atm impossible to use) into an ranged execute only for CHILLED enemies below 30% health), similar to the Ice Cones Drodda shoots around

ESO_Nightingale

Whiskey_JG wrote: »

I'm not much of a PvPer so I will limit my comments to PVE. The warden class seems to have gone quite a journey since it's introduction in the morrowind expansion and it's identity seems to have gone the full circle, through the various changes Zos keeps doing.

To me it seems that Zos does not know exactly what to do with the class. The stam morphs of most skills seem to focus on animals/poison/physical dmg whilst the magicka morphs are a supposed to be frost related in terms of theme. However I would say that the theme the class is developed around, doesnt exactly fit within the game's logic.

Stamden: why dont the stam morphs of warden skills deal bleed damage instead of poison or physical damage? Why only cutting dive is able to stack bleeds (and why during off balance times? - i have yet to meet someone that keeps track of off-balance in actual trials). Furthermore, with the recent buffs to weapon abilities such as Carve or Stampede, Stamdens have to rely on other skills lines for decent damage as apart from Sub assault, all other skills can be easily replaced with others that do more dmg. So the Stamden identity is slowly being eroded. I would kindly urge Zos to rethink the class and focus on its core aspects.

Magden: although currently Magdens are somewhat preferred in end game than their stamina counterparts (due to ridiculous penetration restrictions) they are still a confusing class. Their skills are a mixture of animal/frost skills but neither at the same time. With the recent additions of Frostbite set and Frost reach, it seems that ZoS is finally considering Frostden a class on its own separate from other Magdens. This is something the community has been asking for however there is a mismatch between Frost damage as a concept and Frost as a whole in the game. For some reason Zos went down the route that Frost should be tank related rather than dps related. So we are now in a situation where Frostdens want to use Frostbite to be caretakers of minor brittle, but their ice staves reduce their dps, which doesnt make much sense. Furthermore Deep fissure and Cliff racer dont follow the same logic, these skills should produce frost damage.

I love this class so much but I think the identity of wardens is all over the place and it would benefit from a redesign and/OR making a purely dedicated Ice Class which would in turn have its own stam/mag morphs.

I think the bleed idea for stamden is unique to it, since no other class has bleeds naturally on their skills other than stamden, i think they should focus on it even with shalks, however it seems like bear and stam shalks are the only non bleed skills that stamden has. it'd be interesting if they made glacial presence work with hemorraging while ditching that useless crit healing bonus to chilled allies, it would allow stamden to better synergise with the bleed status effect.

and you're right about magden.

They really do need to consider making frost damage animal companions skills. There is now overwhelming support for the idea, given the forums posts about it gaining large traction. part of me hopes that this is a coming buff with a bunch of other changes coming alongside it, like a proper dps and offensive stun version of blast that we need.

so we ask to zos: