[Class Rep] Warden Feedback Thread

Skullstachio

My current 2 pain points with Warden and how it could be tuned:

1. Feral Guardian and its Morphs.
2. Piercing Cold.

Just to be specific.

• Feral Guardian/Morphs: Currently, it is perfect the way it is to me. No doubt about it, but Include Piercing cold in it’s current condition and suddenly, the Wild Guardian Morph faces a certain degree of Obsoletion. Namely it is described further when Piercing cold is taken into account.
• Piercing Cold Passive: the 10% increase to Frost Damage is nice and is alright, the 10% increase to magic damage however, is not. The 10% magic damage buff renders the wild guardian morph obsolete and makes eternal guardian the clear cut winner in almost every situation.

Problem: as piercing cold gives the eternal guardian extra damage to the point regardless of armor sets, CP Allocations, etc. that Eternal guardian is the clear winner since it has a little more damage than wild guardian which has, quote/unquote, increased damage as well as the physical damage conversion. Not only does this extra magic damage put eternal guardian just above wild guardian, but coupled with the ability to Resurrect once per minute when killed?

There is a somewhat easy way to solve this predicament without touching the ultimate in its entirety. Change Piercing Cold to increase “Direct Damage Done” and Frost Damage by 5/10% changing magic damage to direct damage will allow equal damage increase to both morphs of feral guardian, making eternal guardian extra strong without completely overshadowing the Wild Guardian Morph which also benefits from the Extra Direct Damage Done, allowing Wild guardian to retain the identity of Having Greater Damage than Eternal guardian.

Changing the Magic Damage to Direct Damage would also benefit Frost builds since some frost based Skills are Direct Damage. Just to name a few: Force Shock/Morphs, Destructive Touch/Morphs, Impulse/Morphs and Ice Comet. Not to mention a Direct Damage buff would open new proverbial doors in a Warden’s Build Diversity.

Greek_Hellspawn

Skullstachio wrote: »

My current 2 pain points with Warden and how it could be tuned:

1. Feral Guardian and its Morphs.
2. Piercing Cold.

Just to be specific.

• Feral Guardian/Morphs: Currently, it is perfect the way it is to me. No doubt about it, but Include Piercing cold in it’s current condition and suddenly, the Wild Guardian Morph faces a certain degree of Obsoletion. Namely it is described further when Piercing cold is taken into account.
• Piercing Cold Passive: the 10% increase to Frost Damage is nice and is alright, the 10% increase to magic damage however, is not. The 10% magic damage buff renders the wild guardian morph obsolete and makes eternal guardian the clear cut winner in almost every situation.

Problem: as piercing cold gives the eternal guardian extra damage to the point regardless of armor sets, CP Allocations, etc. that Eternal guardian is the clear winner since it has a little more damage than wild guardian which has, quote/unquote, increased damage as well as the physical damage conversion. Not only does this extra magic damage put eternal guardian just above wild guardian, but coupled with the ability to Resurrect once per minute when killed?

There is a somewhat easy way to solve this predicament without touching the ultimate in its entirety. Change Piercing Cold to increase “Direct Damage Done” and Frost Damage by 5/10% changing magic damage to direct damage will allow equal damage increase to both morphs of feral guardian, making eternal guardian extra strong without completely overshadowing the Wild Guardian Morph which also benefits from the Extra Direct Damage Done, allowing Wild guardian to retain the identity of Having Greater Damage than Eternal guardian.

Changing the Magic Damage to Direct Damage would also benefit Frost builds since some frost based Skills are Direct Damage. Just to name a few: Force Shock/Morphs, Destructive Touch/Morphs, Impulse/Morphs and Ice Comet. Not to mention a Direct Damage buff would open new proverbial doors in a Warden’s Build Diversity.

But it would make stamden even more powerful in pvp, would buff their shalks spin2win swing executioner dbos by 10% in already hard hitting abilities.

Skullstachio

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

Skullstachio wrote: »

My current 2 pain points with Warden and how it could be tuned:

1. Feral Guardian and its Morphs.
2. Piercing Cold.

Just to be specific.

• Feral Guardian/Morphs: Currently, it is perfect the way it is to me. No doubt about it, but Include Piercing cold in it’s current condition and suddenly, the Wild Guardian Morph faces a certain degree of Obsoletion. Namely it is described further when Piercing cold is taken into account.
• Piercing Cold Passive: the 10% increase to Frost Damage is nice and is alright, the 10% increase to magic damage however, is not. The 10% magic damage buff renders the wild guardian morph obsolete and makes eternal guardian the clear cut winner in almost every situation.

Problem: as piercing cold gives the eternal guardian extra damage to the point regardless of armor sets, CP Allocations, etc. that Eternal guardian is the clear winner since it has a little more damage than wild guardian which has, quote/unquote, increased damage as well as the physical damage conversion. Not only does this extra magic damage put eternal guardian just above wild guardian, but coupled with the ability to Resurrect once per minute when killed?

There is a somewhat easy way to solve this predicament without touching the ultimate in its entirety. Change Piercing Cold to increase “Direct Damage Done” and Frost Damage by 5/10% changing magic damage to direct damage will allow equal damage increase to both morphs of feral guardian, making eternal guardian extra strong without completely overshadowing the Wild Guardian Morph which also benefits from the Extra Direct Damage Done, allowing Wild guardian to retain the identity of Having Greater Damage than Eternal guardian.

Changing the Magic Damage to Direct Damage would also benefit Frost builds since some frost based Skills are Direct Damage. Just to name a few: Force Shock/Morphs, Destructive Touch/Morphs, Impulse/Morphs and Ice Comet. Not to mention a Direct Damage buff would open new proverbial doors in a Warden’s Build Diversity.

But it would make stamden even more powerful in pvp, would buff their shalks spin2win swing executioner dbos by 10% in already hard hitting abilities.

Not everything has to be catered to PvP because when a nerf happens just for the sake of PvP’ers, PvE’ers start voicing genuine concern. If certain classes become a problem in PvP, they should simply make those changes in a certain PvP buff? (*cough battle Spirit cough.)

Point is, PvP Should Be Completely Seperate from PvE and have no detrimental drops in PvE power because of PvP’ers! and do trust in yourself when I say it is still very much a topical thing to talk about on the forums. (just not here in its conceptive entirety when crucial info about wardens is needed here.)

ESO_Nightingale

Skullstachio wrote: »

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

Skullstachio wrote: »

My current 2 pain points with Warden and how it could be tuned:

1. Feral Guardian and its Morphs.
2. Piercing Cold.

Just to be specific.

• Feral Guardian/Morphs: Currently, it is perfect the way it is to me. No doubt about it, but Include Piercing cold in it’s current condition and suddenly, the Wild Guardian Morph faces a certain degree of Obsoletion. Namely it is described further when Piercing cold is taken into account.
• Piercing Cold Passive: the 10% increase to Frost Damage is nice and is alright, the 10% increase to magic damage however, is not. The 10% magic damage buff renders the wild guardian morph obsolete and makes eternal guardian the clear cut winner in almost every situation.

Problem: as piercing cold gives the eternal guardian extra damage to the point regardless of armor sets, CP Allocations, etc. that Eternal guardian is the clear winner since it has a little more damage than wild guardian which has, quote/unquote, increased damage as well as the physical damage conversion. Not only does this extra magic damage put eternal guardian just above wild guardian, but coupled with the ability to Resurrect once per minute when killed?

There is a somewhat easy way to solve this predicament without touching the ultimate in its entirety. Change Piercing Cold to increase “Direct Damage Done” and Frost Damage by 5/10% changing magic damage to direct damage will allow equal damage increase to both morphs of feral guardian, making eternal guardian extra strong without completely overshadowing the Wild Guardian Morph which also benefits from the Extra Direct Damage Done, allowing Wild guardian to retain the identity of Having Greater Damage than Eternal guardian.

Changing the Magic Damage to Direct Damage would also benefit Frost builds since some frost based Skills are Direct Damage. Just to name a few: Force Shock/Morphs, Destructive Touch/Morphs, Impulse/Morphs and Ice Comet. Not to mention a Direct Damage buff would open new proverbial doors in a Warden’s Build Diversity.

But it would make stamden even more powerful in pvp, would buff their shalks spin2win swing executioner dbos by 10% in already hard hitting abilities.

Not everything has to be catered to PvP because when a nerf happens just for the sake of PvP’ers, PvE’ers start voicing genuine concern. If certain classes become a problem in PvP, they should simply make those changes in a certain PvP buff? (*cough battle Spirit cough.)

Point is, PvP Should Be Completely Seperate from PvE and have no detrimental drops in PvE power because of PvP’ers! and do trust in yourself when I say it is still very much a topical thing to talk about on the forums. (just not here in its conceptive entirety when crucial info about wardens is needed here.)

It should be, but it's not. So suggestions have to be realistic.

Greek_Hellspawn

Skullstachio wrote: »

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

Skullstachio wrote: »

My current 2 pain points with Warden and how it could be tuned:

1. Feral Guardian and its Morphs.
2. Piercing Cold.

Just to be specific.

• Feral Guardian/Morphs: Currently, it is perfect the way it is to me. No doubt about it, but Include Piercing cold in it’s current condition and suddenly, the Wild Guardian Morph faces a certain degree of Obsoletion. Namely it is described further when Piercing cold is taken into account.
• Piercing Cold Passive: the 10% increase to Frost Damage is nice and is alright, the 10% increase to magic damage however, is not. The 10% magic damage buff renders the wild guardian morph obsolete and makes eternal guardian the clear cut winner in almost every situation.

Problem: as piercing cold gives the eternal guardian extra damage to the point regardless of armor sets, CP Allocations, etc. that Eternal guardian is the clear winner since it has a little more damage than wild guardian which has, quote/unquote, increased damage as well as the physical damage conversion. Not only does this extra magic damage put eternal guardian just above wild guardian, but coupled with the ability to Resurrect once per minute when killed?

There is a somewhat easy way to solve this predicament without touching the ultimate in its entirety. Change Piercing Cold to increase “Direct Damage Done” and Frost Damage by 5/10% changing magic damage to direct damage will allow equal damage increase to both morphs of feral guardian, making eternal guardian extra strong without completely overshadowing the Wild Guardian Morph which also benefits from the Extra Direct Damage Done, allowing Wild guardian to retain the identity of Having Greater Damage than Eternal guardian.

Changing the Magic Damage to Direct Damage would also benefit Frost builds since some frost based Skills are Direct Damage. Just to name a few: Force Shock/Morphs, Destructive Touch/Morphs, Impulse/Morphs and Ice Comet. Not to mention a Direct Damage buff would open new proverbial doors in a Warden’s Build Diversity.

But it would make stamden even more powerful in pvp, would buff their shalks spin2win swing executioner dbos by 10% in already hard hitting abilities.

Not everything has to be catered to PvP because when a nerf happens just for the sake of PvP’ers, PvE’ers start voicing genuine concern. If certain classes become a problem in PvP, they should simply make those changes in a certain PvP buff? (*cough battle Spirit cough.)

Point is, PvP Should Be Completely Seperate from PvE and have no detrimental drops in PvE power because of PvP’ers! and do trust in yourself when I say it is still very much a topical thing to talk about on the forums. (just not here in its conceptive entirety when crucial info about wardens is needed here.)

Yeah i agree about separate pve/pvp but it will never happen, game is already 7 years old.
So my point stands, your suggestion would make the gap between stamden and other classes even further than it already is.

LeHarrt91

Since the Mayhem event is on again, just popping in here to say that Magden still needs a good single target heal and single target stun.
Plus with the hybridization of skills its only made StamDen better.

Jyrus_JD

Okay I want another change outside of Arctic Blast to how a skill works. Frozen Retreat. Not sure how but maybe something like Scalding Rune or something?

SEINTDARKNES

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Since the Mayhem event is on again, just popping in here to say that Magden still needs a good single target heal and single target stun.
Plus with the hybridization of skills its only made StamDen better.

Yeah a little but it's nothing special, with all the cross healings trying to kill someone with a burst combo is not enough to kill people, the problem really is that warden don't pressure or make constant damage to the enemy to secure the kill like templars or dks.

I really think we need a lot of changes in some skills/morphs for more class identity and for having more options, for example we are the only class that don't have some kind of burst ultimate.

Addressing the hybridization part is kinda good for warden in general but some skills will be taking some hurt for example i remember in the past they say that betty netch i was special because it gives major sorcery and brutality but with the hybridization it's nothing special anymore because you can get it from multiples sources, the purge is really awful and in the current meta with plaguebreak it's not bis, necro have one better skill with more game:
mortal coil heal you and your group, gives stam and if you have slotted increase your healing done 3%


And last i think we need to address the problems of the class without turning up the table blaming the other counterpart stam/mag, in fact stamden and magden plays almost the same way, in the past magden don't have access to a finisher but now it will, so please we don't need to fight if mag or stam is better, we need to ask for making the class better and addressing all the problems that the class have im locking at you frozen gate...

miguelcura

PVE:

1. Warden is not wanted as a DPS because of his buffs. He is typecast as a healer.
2. In endgame there are no solid builds to maintain DPS without the bear.

Regards,

LeHarrt91

miguelcura wrote: »

PVE:

1. Warden is not wanted as a DPS because of his buffs. He is typecast as a healer.
2. In endgame there are no solid builds to maintain DPS without the bear.

Regards,

BrittleDen is often asked for in Trials, and it can also pull 100k+ dps.

and agree that without the bear dps is bad.

RitualSmoke

I know its long but please read. this is in response to some of the new ability reworks and it is coming from nearly 5 years playing warden and a love to be more involved in providing feedback about my favorite class.

Being my favorite class I do feel several of our skills get no real use in our tool kit and hurt our class identity

Lotus Flower changes are interesting but I still feel most wont really run it, on paper it has always sounded great but I've never been able to make it work personally.

I feel it has been rarely slotted because it is easier to get the crit bonus from Inner Light along with several other passives.

To me it feels clunky and for the life of me even with good LA weaving it just doesn't seem to perform. and if you consider poor LA weaving of average or new player its not gonna get used enough to help the problem we are experiencing

Magden is possibly the weakest 1v1 in my opinion and popular opinion is that it is because of its weak heals, where it gets confusing is wardens can be great group healers, but our heals are clunky and most of our heals require a decent amount of skill to target and we end up swapping to backbar to heal and getting stuck there spamming heal and losing our momentum to put pressure on a target.

The reason I bring this up is because I do believe this skill is supposed to be our heal while doing damage that will let us get some combos in and keep some pressure on and it is just not being utilized because it does not perform, and the changes to this skill will not change that in my opinion.

Possible solutions to get this on bars

Change it to proc off something besides light attacks or not be a proc at all
add a HoT effect to the initial heal

Natures Grasp

This skill can be fun in pvp or to port over to the guy standing on top of a sign post but it is not that great of a heal that requires a decent amount of skill to really use.
Bursting Vines if you intend it to be used as a rescue heal that generates some ultimate from saving someone's life
then reducing its healing to make it more in line with Rushed Ceremony has me confused how a single target heal that you have to manually target and has a delay really compares to a spammable aoe cone? I think moving it in line with any other ability needs to be thought out completely because it is a very different type of ability to use reliably and deserves some reward to the risk.

I don't think most will care about the healing reduction but I do feel it is a bit unnecessary. I feel it rarely gets used because it is such a high risk skill vs spamming a group cone ability to spot heal.

Living Vines is an excellent HoT but the duration is just a bit to short to work into a lot of rotations

Enchanted Growth works fine and is a decent spammable burst cone heal more comparable with Rushed Ceremony

Healing Seed I'd love to see the back end improvements in play because it can be very clunky to initiate the delayed heal of Budding Seeds, the other morph Corrupting Pollen would benefit greatly from having a Hot instead of the delayed heal.

Emerald Moss this passive is great if you want to run a lot of warden heals but most of the heals are situational or difficult to target/use so I believe a lot of people run resto staff heals and lose out on this passive

Secluded Grove would be nice for one of the morphs to insta cast in circle around the target for life saving moments without ground targeting and smoother game play

Frozen Retreat interesting concept but I don't think this morph is ever used it would be a good opportunity to rework it into a usable skill


I think even one of these reworks or all could greatly improve the use of these skills and keep the wardens class using them over other abilities

lonnml

It seems like it’s going to take quite a long time for magden to get some love. Frozen gate is such a terrible skill. The bear ultimate is probably the worst class ultimate in the game. Cliff racer is a bad spammable. With the upcoming changes to Arctic blast, Magden officially has the worst toolkit in the game with regards to self heals, cc, executes, damage. ZOS, what exactly is your vision for warden?

Templar makes better healers
DK and Templar makes better tanks and DoT pressure builds
Necro and stamblade are better for burst
Heck even sorcerer is a way better pet build than warden. Honestly the bear ultimate shouldn’t be an ultimate at all and should just be an active skill. It’s not very powerful.

Very sad indeed

Mr_Stach

Well as far as the Bear goes, it's not a bad Ultimate at all, In fact not using Bear will net you a 10-12k Loss in DPS. If anything Wardens other Damaging Ultimate, Northern Storm, is far under what Bear can do and the "Buff" from the PTS is actually a nerf if you have over 25k Resources.

I agree that Magicka Warden needs some help, but the Bear is not the greatest offender.

If you're talking primarily PvP. Yeah, Bear is useless.

MacRibs

There are some abilities that need to be reworked.

Frozen Gate should be remade into an ability similar to Encase and/or Dark Talons with a ice flair to it between the lines of:

Frozen Gate
Cost: 4050
Summon an ancient portal that let's forth a gust of icy wind dealing 1742 Frost Damage to enemies in front of you and freezing/immobilizing them for 4 seconds.

This would give way more utility to an otherwise extremely unused ability and actually make more sense as an ability with the name Frozen Gate. They could use the animations from Daedric Curse and switch the daedric rune that appears during the casting animation with the Frozen Gate one and using the Frost Wall of Elements ground animation to show the ice freezing players.

Swarm should have its damage slightly reduced and be remade into and excute ability.

Swarm
Cost: 2970
Unleash a swarm of fetcherflies to relentlessly attack an enemy, dealing 2480 Magic Damage over 10 seconds. The fetcherflies rip through the enemy's flesh, afflicting them with Minor Vulnerability for the duration, increasing their damage taken by 5%. Deals up to 200% more damage to enemies under 50% Health.

Fetcher Infection
Cost: 2970
Unleash a swarm of fetcherflies to relentlessly attack an enemy, dealing 2480 Magic Damage over 10 seconds and dealing up to 200% more damage to enemies under 50% Health. Every second cast of this ability deals 50% increased damage. The fetcherflies rip through the enemy's flesh, afflicting them with Minor Vulnerability for the duration, increasing their damage taken by 5%.

Growing Swarm
Cost: 2525
Unleash a swarm of fetcherflies to relentlessly attack an enemy, causing them to bleed for 2480 Bleed Damage over 10 seconds and dealing up to 200% more damage to enemies under 50% Health. The fetcherflies rip through the original enemy's flesh, afflicting them with Minor Vulnerability for the duration, increasing their damage taken by 5%. Enemies near the carrier take 20% of the damage inflicted to the primary target as Bleed Damage every 2 seconds for the duration. You can only have one Growing Swarm active at a time.


This would give the warden, specially the magicka warden, a much needed class excute which makes perfectly sense this ability to be reworked into one since the idea is that it sends flies to the attacker the more wounds/less hp the attacker has the more flies he attracts and more damage he takes. With this the magicka morph would remain the same and the aoe damage from the stamina morph would now also scale with the execute damage on the original target.

Mr_Stach

I think a Execute on Swarm would be excellent. There's definitely some gaps in Wardens kit that should be addressed.

Also some Frost DPS Options would be great as well.

Mr_Stach

Also if we could get some responses from literally anyone about any of this Feedback from Zos either here or in the PTS. That would be great. I feel like Warden, especially from the Mag side have been trying to get some changes.

Mr_Stach

Just as a quick addendum for Frost Warden, the In Deadlands, Sombren has a bunch of unique elemental attacks including a bunch of Frost Attacks. There's a bunch there you could repurpose for Warden.

MacRibs

I have some more suggestions regarding some skills that despite not being part of the Warden Class skill lines could give the class more options regarding gameplay.
These are from the Destruction Staff skill line and involve the passive Destruction Expert and the ability Impulse, which have barely been touched or adjusted since launch and are in dire need of both since I believe that they dont quite have a place in todays gameplay specially with todays hibradization, when compared with other stamina/magicka abilities.

My suggestions are as following:

Destruction Expert

When you kill an enemy with a Destruction Staff ability, you restore 2000 Magicka. When you absorb damage using a Destruction Staff Damage Shield, you restore 1800 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

Note: Reduced the cooldown to 5 seconds, from 10 seconds and the magicka restored from kills with Destruction Staff abilities to 2600, from 3600.

This would make Frost Wall of Elements and its morphs more viable for mag wardens since it would give them a reliable source of sustain despite the ability high cost.

Impulse
Cost: 3100

Release a surge of elemental energy, dealing 1700 Magic Damage to nearby enemies. Fire Impulse hits Burning enemies with Impulse Afterburn, which deals more damage based on their missing Health. Frost Impulse also applies Minor Breach. Shock Impulse's damage increases based on the number of enemies hit.

Elemental Ring
Cost: 2980

Release a surge of elemental energy, dealing 1699 Magic Damage to enemies at the target location. Fire Ring hits Burning enemies with Ring Afterburn, which deals more damage based on their missing Health. Frost Ring also applies Minor Breach. Shock Ring's damage increases based on the number of enemies hit.

Pulsar
Cost: 3100

Release a surge of elemental energy, dealing 1742 Magic Damage to nearby enemies and afflicting them with Minor Mangle, reducing their Max Health by 10% for 10 seconds. Flame Pulsar hits Burning enemies with Pulsar Afterburn, which deals more damage based on their missing Health. Frost Pulsar also applies Minor Breach. Storm Pulsar's damage increases based on the number of enemies. Triples the innate chance to apply the respective status effect.

Note: Reduced the cost of Impulse na Pulsar to 3100, from 3780.
Reduced the cost of Elemental Ring to 2980 from 3780, and the damage to 1700 from 1749.

The frost variant now applies Minor Breach making this ability more reliable offensive wise for both PVE and PVP.
Reduced the cost to similar values of Whirlwind and its morphs since both abilities have the potential to be executes or aoe dmg. Despite appearing cheaper when compared with Whirlwind and its morphs the latter benefit from a 15% cost reduction from the Controlled Fury Passive.

Mr_Stach

Interesting Ideas. I think something else to consider is Frost Damage and Crit. Brittle increases Crit Damage, what if Pulsar increased Crit chance to affected targets.

ESO_Nightingale

MacRibs wrote: »

I have some more suggestions regarding some skills that despite not being part of the Warden Class skill lines could give the class more options regarding gameplay.
These are from the Destruction Staff skill line and involve the passive Destruction Expert and the ability Impulse, which have barely been touched or adjusted since launch and are in dire need of both since I believe that they dont quite have a place in todays gameplay specially with todays hibradization, when compared with other stamina/magicka abilities.

My suggestions are as following:

Destruction Expert

When you kill an enemy with a Destruction Staff ability, you restore 2000 Magicka. When you absorb damage using a Destruction Staff Damage Shield, you restore 1800 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

Note: Reduced the cooldown to 5 seconds, from 10 seconds and the magicka restored from kills with Destruction Staff abilities to 2600, from 3600.

This would make Frost Wall of Elements and its morphs more viable for mag wardens since it would give them a reliable source of sustain despite the ability high cost.

Impulse
Cost: 3100

Release a surge of elemental energy, dealing 1700 Magic Damage to nearby enemies. Fire Impulse hits Burning enemies with Impulse Afterburn, which deals more damage based on their missing Health. Frost Impulse also applies Minor Breach. Shock Impulse's damage increases based on the number of enemies hit.

Elemental Ring
Cost: 2980

Release a surge of elemental energy, dealing 1699 Magic Damage to enemies at the target location. Fire Ring hits Burning enemies with Ring Afterburn, which deals more damage based on their missing Health. Frost Ring also applies Minor Breach. Shock Ring's damage increases based on the number of enemies hit.

Pulsar
Cost: 3100

Release a surge of elemental energy, dealing 1742 Magic Damage to nearby enemies and afflicting them with Minor Mangle, reducing their Max Health by 10% for 10 seconds. Flame Pulsar hits Burning enemies with Pulsar Afterburn, which deals more damage based on their missing Health. Frost Pulsar also applies Minor Breach. Storm Pulsar's damage increases based on the number of enemies. Triples the innate chance to apply the respective status effect.

Note: Reduced the cost of Impulse na Pulsar to 3100, from 3780.
Reduced the cost of Elemental Ring to 2980 from 3780, and the damage to 1700 from 1749.

The frost variant now applies Minor Breach making this ability more reliable offensive wise for both PVE and PVP.
Reduced the cost to similar values of Whirlwind and its morphs since both abilities have the potential to be executes or aoe dmg. Despite appearing cheaper when compared with Whirlwind and its morphs the latter benefit from a 15% cost reduction from the Controlled Fury Passive.

minor breach is a really poor effect for frost dps, while it's better, it's still mainly a tank thing which hurts compared to how good the other 2 effects are. Tanks just use frost pulsar for aoe minor brittle where as frost dps are using it as both aoe brittle and an aoe spammable for damage. having a damage dealing effect helps a lot more.

also the entire unstable wall of elements morph should just have the flame effect but for each respective status effect. that would help a ton to cut back on the insane gap between fire wall and the other types. enough with fire destro getting everything from an execute, the only hard cc in the line, the best damage bonus on it's AoE DoT and the best passive bonus. it's absurd.

MacRibs

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

minor breach is a really poor effect for frost dps, while it's better, it's still mainly a tank thing which hurts compared to how good the other 2 effects are. Tanks just use frost pulsar for aoe minor brittle where as frost dps are using it as both aoe brittle and an aoe spammable for damage. having a damage dealing effect helps a lot more.

also the entire unstable wall of elements morph should just have the flame effect but for each respective status effect. that would help a ton to cut back on the insane gap between fire wall and the other types. enough with fire destro getting everything from an execute, the only hard cc in the line, the best damage bonus on it's AoE DoT and the best passive bonus. it's absurd.

I hear you, I agree that damage wise the 3 effects are not equal and the frost version got the shorter end however unfortunately thats the elemental identity they went with, frost being a debuff/tank element and I dont see them changing that.
I suppose it would be harder to balance those skills if frost got extra dmg mostly due to Piercing Cold, for example if you were to change Ancient Knowledge to also give, say, a 10% dmg buff to frost dmg with a ice staff equipped, which would be in line with Inferno and Lightning buffs, it would make Ice Staves a more viable dps option benefiting even Necromancers giving them a good spammable with clench and buffing Glacial Colossus however it would probably be overtuned for wardens which would get 10%+10% Frost Damage buff.

I believe the better solution is to give more utility to Frost skills, more usefull buffs/debuffs for both pve and pvp, if Ice staves cant get more dmg because they are a more tank/defensive oriented element at least give them better buffs and debuffs and passives.

Something like:
Have them increase the player resistances by 10% of their total Physical and Spell Resistance;
Stunning enemies for 2.5 seconds or having damage dealt when the Chilled status effect is applied;
While a Ice Staff is equiped.

PVP wise, Wardens right now have a survivability issue ever since the nerf to Arctic Blast and specially now with the recent hybridization of skills the Warden lacks a good consistent heal which most classes now have access to, they got better with the latest patch but nowhere near close to other classes like DK, templars, necromancers and even nbs.

Regarding Impulse Minor Breach is not a good effect for frost dps, however if you look at Pulsar with all the warden passives it would apply Minor Breach, Minor Mangle, almost guaranteed Chilled status effect also applying Minor Maim and Minor Brittle plus dealing 1742 dmg + 10%, which adding to a cost reduction seem like a better skill than what we have now.

ESO_Nightingale

MacRibs wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

minor breach is a really poor effect for frost dps, while it's better, it's still mainly a tank thing which hurts compared to how good the other 2 effects are. Tanks just use frost pulsar for aoe minor brittle where as frost dps are using it as both aoe brittle and an aoe spammable for damage. having a damage dealing effect helps a lot more.

also the entire unstable wall of elements morph should just have the flame effect but for each respective status effect. that would help a ton to cut back on the insane gap between fire wall and the other types. enough with fire destro getting everything from an execute, the only hard cc in the line, the best damage bonus on it's AoE DoT and the best passive bonus. it's absurd.

I hear you, I agree that damage wise the 3 effects are not equal and the frost version got the shorter end however unfortunately thats the elemental identity they went with, frost being a debuff/tank element and I dont see them changing that.
I suppose it would be harder to balance those skills if frost got extra dmg mostly due to Piercing Cold, for example if you were to change Ancient Knowledge to also give, say, a 10% dmg buff to frost dmg with a ice staff equipped, which would be in line with Inferno and Lightning buffs, it would make Ice Staves a more viable dps option benefiting even Necromancers giving them a good spammable with clench and buffing Glacial Colossus however it would probably be overtuned for wardens which would get 10%+10% Frost Damage buff.

I believe the better solution is to give more utility to Frost skills, more usefull buffs/debuffs for both pve and pvp, if Ice staves cant get more dmg because they are a more tank/defensive oriented element at least give them better buffs and debuffs and passives.

Something like:
Have them increase the player resistances by 10% of their total Physical and Spell Resistance;
Stunning enemies for 2.5 seconds or having damage dealt when the Chilled status effect is applied;
While a Ice Staff is equiped.

PVP wise, Wardens right now have a survivability issue ever since the nerf to Arctic Blast and specially now with the recent hybridization of skills the Warden lacks a good consistent heal which most classes now have access to, they got better with the latest patch but nowhere near close to other classes like DK, templars, necromancers and even nbs.

Regarding Impulse Minor Breach is not a good effect for frost dps, however if you look at Pulsar with all the warden passives it would apply Minor Breach, Minor Mangle, almost guaranteed Chilled status effect also applying Minor Maim and Minor Brittle plus dealing 1742 dmg + 10%, which adding to a cost reduction seem like a better skill than what we have now.

An option i came up with was to increase it's damage to enemies who are cced. Specifically stunned, immobilized, snared or taunted. This makes it more useful for both tanks and dps as the effect is built for the point of the skill. Aoe damage. But it's conditional effect is also something easily achievable by tanks and dps. As dps like warden have an innate snare in their kit with winter's revenge and attacking taunted enemies is a pretty easy condition in groups.

Mr_Stach

Much better than the rest of the hoops we jump through already lol

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Much better than the rest of the hoops we jump through already lol

Well yeah. The current iteration is minor protection which is almost entirely useless.

lonnml

Why does zos hate wardens (especially magdens)

ESO_Nightingale

lonnml wrote: »

Why does zos hate wardens (especially magdens)

I feel like because the population of warden players is undoubtedly smaller than the basegame classes, that is why we may not see as much attention as them.

Mr_Stach

I also think that Zos for some reason see Warden as some kind of Mega Powerhouse. Some of these changes they make they talk about lining up that perfect burst or any other number of things. But then we Got DKs and Templars that can Stun smash and outheal anything you do to them.

It's pretty crazy if you ask me

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I also think that Zos for some reason see Warden as some kind of Mega Powerhouse. Some of these changes they make they talk about lining up that perfect burst or any other number of things. But then we Got DKs and Templars that can Stun smash and outheal anything you do to them.

It's pretty crazy if you ask me

What they said is also not even true, it's quite hard to perfectly line up the burst on any player that has a functional keyboard and brain. Damn, even 1 minute of warden pvp will prove it against any player with both of those. I don't understand why they chose to do that to the skill instead of just rework the damn thing.

Mr_Stach

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

bro we boutta get hella warden nerfs