[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

JayKwellen

@ImmortalCX Sorta but not really. There are defile poisons, and enchants which can proc defile, however they only proc minor defile now and not major.

By the way he explained it it's kind of like major defile but instead of reducing the targets healing received it instead would reduce their healing done to others and themselves. This would actually be way more powerful, as not only would it reduce the healing the target does to others (negating the effectiveness of regen spammers and such), but it would also have basically the same effect on the target as major defile would. Since it's reducing your healing done, it's naturally going to reduce the healing done to yourself.

I actually think it's kind of a cool idea though. Instead of having to cover an entire group in defiles, just target the healers to reduce the healing output of the entire group. Would probably have to be carefully balanced as it would teeter between useless (excessive amount of healers and cross healing in large groups), and OP (might end up completely shutting down smaller organized groups with only 1 healer or a healer and an off-healer) Still, it's an interesting concept at least.

kalunte

exactly.

think about minor/major protection and minor/major maim. they both reduce incoming dmg, one for yourself the other for everyone hitten by the debuffed target.

the thing is that for heal you can only reduce healing received, not healing done, this is a debuff lacking from the game and could give some identity/taste/somethingelsetocryabout for NBs first. then throw it to all other classes because, well, that's what happens with all nightblades' flavors 'til someone figures out something new ^^

MindOfTheSwarm

They have nerfed healing in PVP already with the Greymoor patch. Wait and see how things play out in term of healing. Last thing we need is for healing to be 'over' nerfed.

kalunte

it has been 3weeks from the release, nothing as changed in terms of healing. those who used to be hard to kill are still hard to kill. some got more into dmg relying on free impen so ppl are dying faster to glasscanons without it making glass-canon playstyle tanky enough to be viable beside potatoe ganking.

i've been playing the game during this time, but thanks for your ideas @MindOfTheSwarm

beside that, nothing prevent ZoS to revert battle spirit to 50% if they introduce what i call "minor/major wilt" into the game, with minor wilt being added to any class through generic skill line, and major for nb only (just like plarz have access to major maim or necro have access to major vuln). propably a set could do it too.

MindOfTheSwarm

kalunte wrote: »

it has been 3weeks from the release, nothing as changed in terms of healing. those who used to be hard to kill are still hard to kill. some got more into dmg relying on free impen so ppl are dying faster to glasscanons without it making glass-canon playstyle tanky enough to be viable beside potato ganking.

i've been playing the game during this time, but thanks for your ideas @MindOfTheSwarm

beside that, nothing prevent ZoS to revert battle spirit to 50% if they introduce what i call "minor/major wilt" into the game, with minor wilt being added to any class through generic skill line, and major for nb only (just like plarz have access to major maim or necro have access to major vuln). propably a set could do it too.

How about changing the queue system. Depending on what you queue as having a direct effect on what you can do. This obviously would only apply to Battlegrounds.

Tank:
Decreases Damage received by 20%.
Reduces Damage dealt by 10%.

Healer:
Increases Healing Done by 20%.
Reduces Damage dealt by 20%.

DPS:
Increases Damage dealt by 20%.
Reduces Healing received by 20%.

kalunte

first, you may have to explain me what does this have to do with nightblades specifically.

MindOfTheSwarm

kalunte wrote: »

first, you may have to explain me what does this have to do with nightblades specifically.

Nothing at all, I was just trying to understand your reason for a 'Wilt' mechanic. It sounds nice on paper don't get me wrong, just trying to see the reasoning behind it. It would be a lot stronger than Defile for sure as others have said, but if healing is the reasoning then why not simply give Defile a slight buff?

skquish

I miss my stamblade dearly. It's supposed to be a class with a high skill cap. One mechanic that reinforces this is the bow procs, missing a LA hurts your DPS by quite a bit. Could they double down on mechanics like this? For example, give merciless a stacking buff which increasing LA damage (up to an arbitrary cap), but you lose all (or several) stacks upon missing a LA? A chance like this wouldn't even affect pvp that much since its difficult to land LAs in PvP, but it would reward skills players in PvE.

Sanguinor2

I played a bit of stamblade in bgs since the patch dropped and my god does healing suck (not that stamblade is alone in that tbf), the way I try to deal with it is high mag and stam recovery to reset fights and meditate back up. Would probably do better if I just ran double proc sets like everyone else is doing but meh.

kalunte

Well, some "wilt" could be powerfull, but not necessarly more than defile. just like minor/major prot isnt necessarly more powerfull than minor/major maim. it's just that there isnt any debuff at all that reduce healing output, and fullfiling this spot with nightblades would give it a taste.

since all nightblade skills are being spread, this could be something new.

beside that, it would reinforce nightblade identity of single target dmg: aim for a healer/crosshealer and reduce the enemy team efficiency; aim for a brawler and it wont bother him much + you'll get caught into AoE which isnt nb strenght.

ProbablePaul

How long has nightblade been the worst class around? I guess Stamblades have always been kind of ok, but magblade has been bad since before morrowind I think. Now that all of their abilities can be obtained by other classes, why not just issue nightblades a class change token?

Parasaurolophus

ProbablePaul wrote: »

How long has nightblade been the worst class around? I guess Stamblades have always been kind of ok, but magblade has been bad since before morrowind I think. Now that all of their abilities can be obtained by other classes, why not just issue nightblades a class change token?

This is completely wrong. Stamblade is now able to cope only with bad players or newcomers.

madman65

Gilvoth wrote: »

we nightblades are not able to stealth properly and we should have our stealth increased. it angers me that we cannot stealth like we need to and that we so easily are pulled out of stealth.

it angers me that we cannot sneak fast in stealth.
right now we have an ability to sneak but it simply feels like we are crawling in mud while we are sneaking, we need to be able to Get Out of harm way while in sneak and right now it is Way too slow in sneak speeds.

o wrote: »

Incap is way too strong for it's cost and is used by both mag and stamnb due to how overperforming it is.

Remove the stun on incap and give it an other effect to Keep it viable but the stun is too much as it Boosts the frontloaded Damage potential way too much

Dear zeniamx and @ZOS_GinaBruno

please hear my complaint about this type of threads,

many people on this forum, have no intention of class balance, but instead are intentionally making threads and comments against a class, class skill, and even a set of armor, or a combination that a class wearing a certain set of armor and using a certain skill is overpowered or in some way not balanced when infact the class or class skill and even set of armor is balanced but they don't want to adjust or change their build nor their skills to defend against those things.
but instead they mean it for harm against a class or skill or armor set. and make posts like the one i am quoting above.

how is it fair and construction oriented that this comment that i quoted above and these types of "nerf nightblade" nerf nightblade skills" be allowed to be posted in this nightblade thread?

all one has to do is be against or die often to the nightblade class and use that anger and fuel their comment to request nerfs be made to a certain class.

thank you for taking time to read my complaint.

and by the way, i do not agree with the complaints that were made in the comment that i qouted, and i am willing to bet that Many people Do Not agree with that statement that i have quoted above.

This is were PVP has alot of complaints. I`ve read a few posts that players during PVP didn`t like the Stamblade because of the stealth and ESO nerfed the class. Never understood why ESO listens to complaints when they should stick with the basics
of each class and let the players deal with it. A Nightblade that doesn`t perform as it should, not getting my money`s worth.

Aleinzzs

after swapping back to stamblade on greymoor, the only real complaint i have is the absurdity of all the aoe's breaking me out of stealth due to lag.

with that in mind, why not make it to where you take a certain amount of damage before you're broken out of stealth, there's nothing worse than getting zapped for 50 dmg by a stamsorcs hurricane for example, and breaking me out of stealth when im obviously out of the range of his buff.

outside of that i enjoy that im able to actually somewhat perform, but all the stuff like ult being on a timer etc needs looked at, but even with those issues, im enjoying stamblade more in pvp.

Parasaurolophus

It is strange that this topic has gone so far. Is everything good with the NB today?

Czekoludek

BrownChicken wrote: »

It is strange that this topic has gone so far. Is everything good with the NB today?

For PvE magblades are great, stamblades are trash. For PvP magblade is good only as healers, stamblades are pretty mediocre/bad depends on the player

xI_The_Owl_Ix

BrownChicken wrote: »

It is strange that this topic has gone so far. Is everything good with the NB today?

PvP:

Damage wise stamblade is in a really good spot with stuhns and balorgh. Im hitting 8-9k Surprise Attacks.
However healing is terrible, playing a stamblade in no CP or against a necro with 100% major defile uptime is one of the worst experiences Ive ever had in this game.
Surprise Attack also being only 5m still is an issue in high ping situations or against classes like Magcros who will camp their rune and you cant hit them if they stand in dead centre of it, because its radius is 6m and SA is only 5m. This issue is also true in PvE.


Magblade on the other hand is sinply terrible, almost 80% of the attacks misses so you cant burst down people fast enough in a 1vX. The selfheals also took a hit and you HAVE to run Dark Cloak if you play a "brawler" and want to survive in PvP. However even with Dark Claok the self heals/defenses are bad in an outbumbered situation.

I binned my magblade after going into PvP and not being able to hit people and being greeted by dozens of DODGE pop ups. Its not worth it.


Conclusion: Stamblade is the way to go in PvP atm, but even then you will be super squishy but hit super hard.

Nortenho_PT

This post was death, or patch Patch Notes v6.1.5 - Stonethorn & Update 27 will revive it???
Yes, ZOS make mess again with NB's by taking from them the small amount of subrevability they have thru the mitigation of Grim Focus
NB was in a good state and they already have crit buff thru Hemorrhage passive, if you want to give crit you can buff that passive to 12% for example.
PVP experience with out any DMG mitigation is impossible atm, you die only with procs if you jump for some trash fight to try to eliminate someone...
NB needs that dmg mitigation back, they need more subrevability...if you spec into resist you will not kill any one, and you will be killed in the same way because the game state is very bad last pach, and this one is even worst resulting in canceling my subscription.. thats very bad.
NB don't have now the same tool kit other class have relatively to dmg mitigation
In PVE NB tanks will be death too ,with that lack of incoming damage reduction they will not survive hardcore game content...

By the way malachat need nerf, its not possible to fight a player that is using malachat if you are not using it too...

This char was the most nerfed ever and this patch is a camoflaged nerf by giving a cookie but taking off the milk...

Regards...

Sporvan

I personally love the Assassin's Will change, it's much more thematic and buffs Nightblade healers. The damage mitigation can be moved into the shadow tree on an unused morph.

Nightblade healing actually got a significant buff with Funnel Health being upped too.

Definitely a fan of this patch!

Playboy_Shrek

yes please give us damage mitigation buff to NB tank thank you. the change was very illegal and very uncool to us tank NBs

Crow_IX

Sporvan wrote: »

I personally love the Assassin's Will change, it's much more thematic and buffs Nightblade healers. The damage mitigation can be moved into the shadow tree on an unused morph.

Nightblade healing actually got a significant buff with Funnel Health being upped too.

Definitely a fan of this patch!

okay but what about stamblades who don't spam funnel health? assassin's will was pretty essential to our defense seeing as we have low resistances and healing is in a really bad spot.

also the patch as a whole is really bad. they added stam and mag to almost everything, nerfed defensive mundus' and on top of that they keep buffing proc sets. its a trash and less skill based meta right now and all for what? just to close the skill gap for no reason and frustrate the better players into leaving the game?

JayKwellen

Crow_IX wrote: »

@Crow_IX okay but what about stamblades who don't spam funnel health? assassin's will was pretty essential to our defense seeing as we have low resistances and healing is in a really bad spot.

also the patch as a whole is really bad. they added stam and mag to almost everything, nerfed defensive mundus' and on top of that they keep buffing proc sets. its a trash and less skill based meta right now and all for what? just to close the skill gap for no reason and frustrate the better players into leaving the game?

Not just stamblades, all non-healing magblades got shafted too. It's my understanding that while funnel health was buffed, swallow soul's damage was not, so there's no extra self-healing or damage there for magblades at all.

Add the lack of additional healing to the absolutely huge loss in mitigation from grim focus, and magblades are gonna get toasted. They already do of course, it'll just be worse now. We already lack burst heals, so the extra 10% crit healing will only apply to our HoT's, which were already nerfed in greymoor anyway so this change will maybe bring our overall healing back to where it was in harrowstorm while still losing 10% mitigation overall.

We did get 10% crit damage I guess but guess so what? Every one of our main damaging abilities is still a dodgeable projectile so...what does it matter that I do 10% more crit damage when a dodge roll still mitigates 100% of our damage output? What does it matter if I do 10% more crit damage if soul harvest and spectral bow are still so slow that people can literally CC break + dodge and still dodge out of a soul harvest or bow, even at point blank range with perfect timing?

I suppose I'm being a bit alarmist, but all I see is magblades losing one of their strongest survivability tools while receiving far too little in return, all the while the underlying deficiencies in class design go completely unaddressed (or likely completely unknown honestly) by the developers.

hakan

There is also Master Assassin passive change which is a buff for pve but kinda nerf for pvp. Lower weapon damage, healing in stealth/cloak got nerfed. You could say the former used to apply one time but with current one, you need to flank and in order to do that you need to cloak half of the time.

Mitigation is gone. I dont know crit heal worth something but crit damage sounds good. I wonder if it applies while using Assassin's Scourge.

I think currently its good but i wish they moved Major Fracture and Major Brutality buffs to some other skills. Just like other classes i feel we have some trashy/boring/clunky-and- not-worth-the hassle abilities that could use some love.

Also these threads are derailed and nobody uses the format in Gina's first message, so i dont know if they even read these.

JayKwellen

hakan wrote: »

There is also Master Assassin passive change which is a buff for pve but kinda nerf for pvp. Lower weapon damage, healing in stealth/cloak got nerfed. You could say the former used to apply one time but with current one, you need to flank and in order to do that you need to cloak half of the time.

Mitigation is gone. I dont know crit heal worth something but crit damage sounds good. I wonder if it applies while using Assassin's Scourge.

I think currently its good but i wish they moved Major Fracture and Major Brutality buffs to some other skills. Just like other classes i feel we have some trashy/boring/clunky-and- not-worth-the hassle abilities that could use some love.

It doesn't apply to grim focus. Which makes sense, as that would actually be the most useful part of the change.

The master assassin change I still can't make my mind up on (for PvP). As a magblade with a max mag build I think it's fine as it will actually give me a bit more damage than it did before. On the other hand, it's still overall a nerf as weaving into cloak before an ult or spectral bow isn't a thing anymore. On the other other hand, it's likely still a huge nerf overall as anyone with high SD/WD will be getting hit, and reliably getting into flanking territory will be difficult for everyone but stamina rollerblades.

Deathlord92

I actually love the nb changes gives us identity were rogues not warriors. Only thing I would ask for now is buff mark so it’s actually worth slotting or move major fracture to a skill that’s actually useful like the other classes have

Nortenho_PT

The only propose of this changes was PVE in mind... In PVP it is now possible to one shot a NB that's the identity you want? Why so many strotuctural changes in this classe? Do you think it is possible with actual changes to fight an experiênced player in any other class? Its a RIP...
They dont give us a reasonable explanation to do that change, first They take from us breserker, then They gives a tool to compensation of that lack in damage thru mitigation this was to allow us to put more pressure into our target but in same way to give a target a chance to fight back AND now They gives us this joke. You jump into some one AND youll die befour you can do something... There's hope??? With this team pride i think not. They do what They want and i do what i want AND i want to quit my 1400cp main char... Because it sucks

xI_The_Owl_Ix

The healing is really bad. Stamblade 4,5k wep dmg and I get 1k non crit vigor ticks in CP PvP.
Now if I also had major and minor defile on me, it would be useless to even try healing. Which actually happens a lot when fighting necros or werewolves.

JayKwellen

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

The healing is really bad. Stamblade 4,5k wep dmg and I get 1k non crit vigor ticks in CP PvP.
Now if I also had major and minor defile on me, it would be useless to even try healing. Which actually happens a lot when fighting necros or werewolves.

I'd say "well at least you stamblades have rally", but isn't that bugged right now too?

HalensShade

Honestly, if you're a magblade using Shadow Cloak over Dark your opinion has lost significant value.

That being said, Dark Cloak was best at its 3 second duration being the closest thing that a magblade will feel to a burst heal since the complete loss of Healing Ward as any kind of utility. It doesn't even work with BRP resto because of its current bug of not scaling/healing at all in execute range. Healing Ward: Useless. BRP Resto: Useless.

Dark Cloak in its current state is mediocre in healing power; taking into considering I run 30k hp backbar and could slot vigor as a magblade and produce a more powerful heal. This is a problem in terms of a 'class heal' when an ability that uses your weakest resource produces more results.

Manifestation of Terror has a bug where you can dodge through the trap, get CC'd, and still dodge everything being thrown at you for the duration of the "dodge roll", unlike Mass Hysteria which immediately makes you vulnerable to attacks irregardless of the duration left on a roll after being feared. This has gone widely unnoticed due to it being a very unpopular (and overlooked) morph. I could rant all day about how it's superior to Hysteria, but there's other threads for that.

Reave. Why is this on Incap and not Soul Harvest? Clearly stamblades have a much easier time sustaining than magblades. This was one of the greatest buffs we've seen for the class, and yet magblades, the class needing the most sustain, reaps none of it while stamblades, who can literally out-sustain DKs, get an uneccesary buff so they can slot more damage over sustain. They already get 10% stamina sustain just from keeping Relentless Focus up. Ridiculous thought process that shows Class Rep's bias towards stam. Stop over-dodging and you'll see your sustain improve, you dunce. /rant

I'll probably have more to add later.

hakan

HalensShade wrote: »

Honestly, if you're a magblade using Shadow Cloak over Dark your opinion has lost significant value.

That being said, Dark Cloak was best at its 3 second duration being the closest thing that a magblade will feel to a burst heal since the complete loss of Healing Ward as any kind of utility. It doesn't even work with BRP resto because of its current bug of not scaling/healing at all in execute range. Healing Ward: Useless. BRP Resto: Useless.

Dark Cloak in its current state is mediocre in healing power; taking into considering I run 30k hp backbar and could slot vigor as a magblade and produce a more powerful heal. This is a problem in terms of a 'class heal' when an ability that uses your weakest resource produces more results.

Manifestation of Terror has a bug where you can dodge through the trap, get CC'd, and still dodge everything being thrown at you for the duration of the "dodge roll", unlike Mass Hysteria which immediately makes you vulnerable to attacks irregardless of the duration left on a roll after being feared. This has gone widely unnoticed due to it being a very unpopular (and overlooked) morph. I could rant all day about how it's superior to Hysteria, but there's other threads for that.

Reave. Why is this on Incap and not Soul Harvest? Clearly stamblades have a much easier time sustaining than magblades. This was one of the greatest buffs we've seen for the class, and yet magblades, the class needing the most sustain, reaps none of it while stamblades, who can literally out-sustain DKs, get an uneccesary buff so they can slot more damage over sustain. They already get 10% stamina sustain just from keeping Relentless Focus up. Ridiculous thought process that shows Class Rep's bias towards stam. Stop over-dodging and you'll see your sustain improve, you dunce. /rant

I'll probably have more to add later.

how do they get %10 stam sustain with relentless focus? you are making a fool of yourself dismissing others opinion then going on a rant about things you dont know