[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

TwinLamps

#stamwhip
Deals X poison damage on target. Damage is increased by Y for every class DoT applied on target. Every 3rd hit apply minor defile to target for 5 seconds, reducing their healing from every resource by Z. This effect can occur every 10 seconds.

TheUndeadAmulet

LMAO, imagine playing a DK in 2020, go back to 2015 where you belong. All the kool kids play Warden and Necromancer now


But in all seriousness, I'm impressed that ZOS has allowed for DK to get this bad. The majority of the playerbase agrees it has no redeeming qualities except for "ooga booga, me tank big bad guy gud", but even in that role DK is beginning to be out performed by nearly every other class.

ArcVelarian

TwinLamps wrote: »

#stamwhip
Deals X poison damage on target. Damage is increased by Y for every class DoT applied on target. Every 3rd hit apply minor defile to target for 5 seconds, reducing their healing from every resource by Z. This effect can occur every 10 seconds.

Unfortunately it seems the only way forward is to give it the Soul Trap treatment. "The damage dealt is based on your highest offensive stats".

LightYagami

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

LMAO, imagine playing a DK in 2020, go back to 2015 where you belong. All the kool kids play Warden and Necromancer now


But in all seriousness, I'm impressed that ZOS has allowed for DK to get this bad. The majority of the playerbase agrees it has no redeeming qualities except for "ooga booga, me tank big bad guy gud", but even in that role DK is beginning to be out performed by nearly every other class.

That may be related to a point I usually mention... Class performance, player base, and nerf loop...

The class got nerfed continuously so the player base dropped (especially magdks in PvP). Usually the low player base won't be able to voice out lound enough to persuade the decision makers to take action and bring benefits to the minority.

Especially in PvP, if you help the minority, you effectively reduce the privilege of the majority.

If the minority get a considerable buff, the majority may immediately get angry and ask for keeping their privileges. Usually the decision makers will listen to the majority, as a result, the minority will stay weak.

Even if there is a plan to help the minority, it is very difficult not to hurt the majority too much (especially in PvP).

That's why the minority (magdk PvP) are this bad imo.

INe_Saninus

LightYagami wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

LMAO, imagine playing a DK in 2020, go back to 2015 where you belong. All the kool kids play Warden and Necromancer now


But in all seriousness, I'm impressed that ZOS has allowed for DK to get this bad. The majority of the playerbase agrees it has no redeeming qualities except for "ooga booga, me tank big bad guy gud", but even in that role DK is beginning to be out performed by nearly every other class.

That may be related to a point I usually mention... Class performance, player base, and nerf loop...

The class got nerfed continuously so the player base dropped (especially magdks in PvP). Usually the low player base won't be able to voice out lound enough to persuade the decision makers to take action and bring benefits to the minority.

Especially in PvP, if you help the minority, you effectively reduce the privilege of the majority.

If the minority get a considerable buff, the majority may immediately get angry and ask for keeping their privileges. Usually the decision makers will listen to the majority, as a result, the minority will stay weak.

Even if there is a plan to help the minority, it is very difficult not to hurt the majority too much (especially in PvP).

That's why the minority (magdk PvP) are this bad imo.

I don't normally quote a post when my comment comes directly after it, but this deserves to be read twice...! Lmao

If Stam/Mag DKs were to receive buffs that put us closer to the top tier classes there would be so many calls for a nerf before it even left PTS!
Any shift in the meta and most people running a top tier class will cry foul if they lose a 1v1.
They couldn't lose a fight due to skill....!
It had to be that DKs were over buffed.

Great post, sir!

Jodynn

Posting this here as well for exposure:

Context:
I am an end game player, PvE and PvP, CP around 1400~1500, I do trials , arenas, dungeons all in vet/hm/trifecta, cyrodil, battlegrounds, Imperial city pvp I'm mostly a dueler or duoer, overland (wish there was a vet mode it's entirely too easy), I parse around 98k on live and PTS ( didn't test a lot on PTS because I kept lagging ).

Point of Posting:
I'm bored and frustrated of the same skills being useless and not viable; some skills are cool but just aren't good enough to use versus other skills.
This causes contrition when I'm playing, I get over it because I'm a fairly amicable person; but I feel like it could be more fun not only for me, but my fellow MagDK players.
Lastly, I don't want something broken, overpowered, or bugged ( like the stupid asylum burning proc )

The Plea
There are many skills I have a wish list for, but I'll stick to the key points for this post

Ardent Flame:

Seething Fury: Every Dragonknight skill/Fire skill should give a stack of this, this would allow for further build diversity and different skills allowed on your front bar.

Engulfing Flames: The targeting sucks and if I'm moving around it doesn't cast, ever, I have to be standing still. Please Fix.


Earthern Heart:

Molten Weapons: This skill annoys me more than any other. It's a well known fact that you have better solutions for major sorcery/brutality whether that's potions or more useful skills. It should be a unique skill and I have several ideas on the prospect, but my favorite is a toggle skill (one bar only) that turns all magic/bleeding/physical damage to fire or poison and scale off max resource and makes fire/poison skills do 4% more and cost 4% less (1% for each rank of the skill). Would make a cool effect on the weapon, a unique skill to DK, and fitting for the class ( physically alters the world around them. ) This would ALSO help our terrible sustain issues.

Obsidian Shield: Should have a Magicka Morph, but it's low stakes.

Obsidian Shard: I tried running this skill in PvP in duo but the fact it can "miss" a target makes it more or less worthless in a pinch, which is the point of a burst heal. Make it not need a target, the damage is so small it doesn't really matter, in PvE it's fine since most enemies do not dodge you.

Magma Armor: The damage from this skill is abysmal and it has no further affects that help damage like corrosive, not saying put pen on magma, that would be pretty stupid since we have so much already as light armor wearers.

Eruption and Mountain Blessing: You get one tick every 18(24 if elf bane) seconds even though the cooldown is only 6 seconds, it should be on cast OR on hit for earthen heart abilities. This small addition of ult would help us but not be overtuned.


Draconic Power:

Volatile Armor: It should be fire damage and hurt more than it currently does, you could make it do more damage only to non players if it's a balance issue in PvP.

Burning Talons: Reduce the immobilization duration if need be for this morph, but it should have a longer damage duration by default, I shouldn't be required to wear Elf Bane to make it usable.

Deep Breath: Everyone has an opinion for how this skill should behave, personally, I think it should act like prox det, not require to hit a target, and remove the heal if you think it's too much damage. This would give it a usable state in PvE. The interrupt should be on the base skill.

Nirntrotter

I'm not a theorycrafting whiz, just a long-time magDK spitballing/daydreaming/echoing others:
- DKs should get a more noticeable benefit from applying/maintaining many (class) dots
- make inhale an actual delayed burst
- seething fury should not fall off so fast and/or buff X number of whips upon consumption
- Wings could have a strong defensive morph (absorb dmg) and a strong offensive morph (reflect without absorbing)
- Make volatile armor deal fire damage already pls
- Honestly I would bake the Elf Bane effect into a class passive lol

& Many other good suggestions in this thread.

At the very least I would like to have SOME changes since there's a massive update about to drop that promises nothing but more of the same dry spell, cause ever since Elsweyr it's been glaringly obvious that we've been crutching hard on sets, procs and bugs.

ArcVelarian

Nirntrotter wrote: »

I'm not a theorycrafting whiz, just a long-time magDK spitballing/daydreaming/echoing others:
- DKs should get a more noticeable benefit from applying/maintaining many (class) dots

As I mentioned in another thread Combustion should be providing Magicka and Stamina resource restoration per DoT tick in addition to flat regen.

YandereGirlfriend

Just to log this again for the history books: Battle Roar should give you credit for the total amount of ultimate spent not the cost of the ultimate itself.

This would somewhat mitigate the eternal DK conundrum of save ultimate for when you have a reason to to use vs. use ultimate immediately because anything else is inefficient for sustain.

Surely, if we can get this logic processing for a mere monster set we can get it for the signature passive ability of one the game's iconic classes?

Sangwyne

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

LMAO, imagine playing a DK in 2020, go back to 2015 where you belong. All the kool kids play Warden and Necromancer now


But in all seriousness, I'm impressed that ZOS has allowed for DK to get this bad. The majority of the playerbase agrees it has no redeeming qualities except for "ooga booga, me tank big bad guy gud", but even in that role DK is beginning to be out performed by nearly every other class.

DK was bad a year ago in 2020, somehow it's even worse now. We need therapy at this point. This post is 44 pages long, and yet the very first comment, back in 2018, is asking for better class healing, which we still do not have, more mobility, which we still do not have despite being the only class limited to melee, and an execute. Which we still do not have. Some of the first comments talk about how the sustain is terrible and there's no Stam spammable. Does ZOS even read this?

LightYagami

INe_Saninus wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

LMAO, imagine playing a DK in 2020, go back to 2015 where you belong. All the kool kids play Warden and Necromancer now


But in all seriousness, I'm impressed that ZOS has allowed for DK to get this bad. The majority of the playerbase agrees it has no redeeming qualities except for "ooga booga, me tank big bad guy gud", but even in that role DK is beginning to be out performed by nearly every other class.

That may be related to a point I usually mention... Class performance, player base, and nerf loop...

The class got nerfed continuously so the player base dropped (especially magdks in PvP). Usually the low player base won't be able to voice out lound enough to persuade the decision makers to take action and bring benefits to the minority.

Especially in PvP, if you help the minority, you effectively reduce the privilege of the majority.

If the minority get a considerable buff, the majority may immediately get angry and ask for keeping their privileges. Usually the decision makers will listen to the majority, as a result, the minority will stay weak.

Even if there is a plan to help the minority, it is very difficult not to hurt the majority too much (especially in PvP).

That's why the minority (magdk PvP) are this bad imo.

I don't normally quote a post when my comment comes directly after it, but this deserves to be read twice...! Lmao

If Stam/Mag DKs were to receive buffs that put us closer to the top tier classes there would be so many calls for a nerf before it even left PTS!
Any shift in the meta and most people running a top tier class will cry foul if they lose a 1v1.
They couldn't lose a fight due to skill....!
It had to be that DKs were over buffed.

Great post, sir!

Thank you! I really hope that this hot fire warrior class can be great again (or at least not that bad), epically in PvP...

ArcVelarian

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Could we PLEASE get some attention here???

INe_Saninus

ArcVelarian wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Could be PLEASE get some attention here???

Dk buff preview:

-Reduced Leaps dmg by 25%

-Wings now aggressively attacks YOU with fireballs when the skill is activated.

-Increased the dmg of Poopfist by 2%. The skill now only hits enemies directly behind you.

Sangwyne

INe_Saninus wrote: »

ArcVelarian wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Could be PLEASE get some attention here???

Dk buff preview:
-Reduced Leaps dmg by 25%
-Wings now aggressively attacks YOU with fireballs when the skill is activated.
-Increased the dmg of Poopfist by 2%. The skill now only hits enemies directly behind you.

Selecting DK in the character creation screen now immediately crashes the game. This is a buff.

Honestly, if it spares the next generation of players from having to experience the miserable state of DK at this point, it's worth it. I've spent over a thousand hours on this class, and looking back I don't know that I would do it again. It isn't fun anymore, and I can no longer trick myself into pretending that it is. I actually find myself dreading having to pick up the character again each time to go run some dungeons or overland content because it's such a slog and my character just feels entirely useless compared to all these newer, shinier, and more popular classes. My skills do less damage, heal less, shield less, don't have as many uses and don't look as cool. It almost feels like I am forcing myself to play the class. If DK is going to be left to die like this, just give us class tokens so that I can transfer my progress.

HowellQagan

Stamina Whip morph + make Poopfist apply aoe off-balance on the first use? I'm not sure if that would help that skill at all, it's so weird.

INe_Saninus

HowellQagan wrote: »

Stamina Whip morph + make Poopfist apply aoe off-balance on the first use? I'm not sure if that would help that skill at all, it's so weird.

They just need to decide what it is.
It's either a brawler skill or a ranged skill.
If it's a brawler skill, increase the dmg and take away the cast time. Make it competitive with Dizzying Swing. Let it FEEL good to use and make it worth it.
NBs have a fine example of a spamable.
So do Templars. They are both loaded skills that make sense to slot.
If it's a ranged skill, remove the awkward 1st aoe cast.
Only endgame trial groups are worried about "stagger". (Or whatever tf it is called)
No one else cares.
No one in pvp. Hell, no one even running dungeons cares about it.

Make it worth slotting.

Elendir2am

I am very satisfied with my DK tank and I don’t agree that DK start to be replaced in role of PVE tank. DK is still recommended tank in Tank Club for many trials and there is some think, which any other Class cannot do.

However, ZOS declared, that they want to support horizontal possibilities of player experience. If class can excel only in one specific role, then it can hardly support such approach.

I used respect events to test my DK character as stam DD. I didn’t hunt new sets and I don’t have time to learn correct rotation. However, difference between my second character (mag Sorc) and my respected first character (DK) was so enormous.

Sangwyne

Elendir2am wrote: »

I am very satisfied with my DK tank and I don’t agree that DK start to be replaced in role of PVE tank. DK is still recommended tank in Tank Club for many trials and there is some think, which any other Class cannot do.

DK is recommended on Tank because no one wants it on any other role. Any other class can do what it does, and often better.

Nightblade is better for Sunspire due to Mirage's 20% AOE damage reduction and Minor Resolve, along with their far better %HP heal over time for tanking Breath. Warden is better as MT for CR, better projectile shield, better burst heal, more sustain. Sorc for higher block mitigation, better burst heal. Necro has 15% DOT damage reduction, 10% total damage reduction+ heal on Spirit Mender, Minor Protection and free 3% damage reduction + Major Protection + heal on Deaden Pain. Templar... well, ok. After next patch Templar tank gets a lot better. DK will be the only one without a heal scaling off Max HP next patch.

Reminder: The best tank is what brings the most to the group, not necessarily the one that is the "tankiest". Several classes are honestly probably tankier at this point than DK, but DK on tank brings its utility and class buffs to the group, since no one else runs the class. Because it objectively sucks as both healer and DPS.

LightYagami

Elendir2am wrote: »

I am very satisfied with my DK tank and I don’t agree that DK start to be replaced in role of PVE tank. DK is still recommended tank in Tank Club for many trials and there is some think, which any other Class cannot do.

However, ZOS declared, that they want to support horizontal possibilities of player experience. If class can excel only in one specific role, then it can hardly support such approach.

I used respect events to test my DK character as stam DD. I didn’t hunt new sets and I don’t have time to learn correct rotation. However, difference between my second character (mag Sorc) and my respected first character (DK) was so enormous.

That's what I've been continuously mentioning... DKs (especially magdks) work well as PvE tanks, but they're lagging behind as other roles especially in PvP. Stamdens and Stamcros tanks are much better in PvP, and they can still deal good damage while being PvP tanks, unlike the minimal damage output of DK tanks.

PvP player base and death recap showed all the facts. You rarely see magdks both in PvP zones and death recaps.

The so-called "standing still like dragons and slowly burn enemies to death" roll playing just doesn't work at PvP. Please developers, please make yourself some magdks and play PvP say for a month intensively. Please try to see the problems with your own first hand experience.

Elendir2am

I agree with this:

Sangwyne wrote: »

Reminder: The best tank is what brings the most to the group, not necessarily the one that is the "tankiest". Several classes are honestly probably tankier at this point than DK, but DK on tank brings its utility and class buffs to the group, since no one else runs the class. Because it objectively sucks as both healer and DPS.

So, this has zero relevance:

Sangwyne wrote: »

Nightblade is better for Sunspire due to Mirage's 20% AOE damage reduction and Minor Resolve, along with their far better %HP heal over time for tanking Breath. Warden is better as MT for CR, better projectile shield, better burst heal, more sustain. Sorc for higher block mitigation, better burst heal. Necro has 15% DOT damage reduction, 10% total damage reduction+ heal on Spirit Mender, Minor Protection and free 3% damage reduction + Major Protection + heal on Deaden Pain. Templar... well, ok. After next patch Templar tank gets a lot better. DK will be the only one without a heal scaling off Max HP next patch.

I don’t think that Tank Club do recommendation base on this:

Sangwyne wrote: »

DK is recommended on Tank because no one wants it on any other role. Any other class can do what it does, and often better.

Otherwise, I stand with my first post. There are many different situations, you can encounter in PVE. DK tank with Igneous Shield can manage thing at T+3DD that other can only dream about. I guided countless time group through hard time with it, from newbs in normal dungeon to execution phase of final boss in vet Trials.

But that is one pony trick. I am only buffer and de-buffer. I cannot do any work directly.

EDIT: The one advice. If we write that DK can't do well anything at all, then no one will take us seriously when addressing the class's real problems. Less is sometime more.

the1andonlyskwex

Elendir2am wrote: »

The one advice. If we write that DK can't do well anything at all, then no one will take us seriously when addressing the class's real problems. Less is sometime more.

This.

DKs are among the top PvE tanks, and anyone claiming they aren't is just hurting the credibility of anything else they have to say.

That said, DKs need significant help in other areas.
1) Sustain is a problem that affects DKs in pretty much all roles. It's possible that fixing sustain is all it will take to fix DKs for PvE DD.
2) DK healing is broken. In addition to having sustain issues, Cinder Storm and Fragmented Shield appear to be intended for healers, but they're not good enough to actually use, and there aren't really any healer-relevant passives.
3) In PvP, DKs need something, and I think there are a lot of possibilities. Personally, I would like a proper execute, but things like mobility, sustain improvements, different self-healing options, or even nerfs to other classes and play styles could all help too.
4) This last issue isn't so much a DK weakness as a game-wide group composition problem. The four base-game classes all have group support/buffs/debuffs that don't really benefit from having multiples of that class. The result is that if a class is common/preferred in a particular PvE role (like DKs are as tanks), then they're not considered to bring any group support in other roles. Non-tank DKs can actually provide decent buffs/support, but it requires a group without a DK tank to be useful. Sorcerers and Nightblades have this same problem as non-DDs, and Templars have the problem as non-healers. Wardens avoid this pitfall by having so many group buffs on specialized skills/morphs that one role can't possibly provide them all (which appears to be what ZOS is trying, unsuccessfully, to do with DK), while Necromancers avoid it by having a powerful debuff with low uptime (so adding more Necromancers increases the uptime). I don't know the right solution to this, but I do know that simply nerfing DK tanks or buffing DK healers won't work because players are already locked into the mentality that "you need a DK tank for the unique group support they provide (regardless of how good they are at other aspects of tanking), and if you have a DK tank you don't need any other DKs".

Ippokrates

Elendir2am wrote: »

EDIT: The one advice. If we write that DK can't do well anything at all, then no one will take us seriously when addressing the class's real problems. Less is sometime more.

Yeah, sometimes when I am reading this forum I am asking myself: Are we playing the same game?


Lets focus on a sec on magDK, cause mags are more class-skill grounded than stams.

Sangwyne wrote: »

This post is 44 pages long, and yet the very first comment, back in 2018, is asking for better class healing, which we still do not have,

Sure, DK is no healer. And never was nor ment to be. But when it comes to burst self-heal, Coagulating blood gives you almost the same HP as Render Flesh or Rushed Ceremony (difference ca. 15%) PLUS option for 33% bonus and for the same magicka amount. Not mentioning Major Fortitude, and 12% health receive WITH NO OTHER CONDITION THAN TO HAVE ACTIVE SKILL plus 5-15% health recovery from passives.

IMHO only sorcerer have better deal but you know, this is sorc way...

Sangwyne wrote: »

more mobility, which we still do not have despite being the only class limited to melee,

DK have:

1. gap closer with empowering and major expedition, which imho works better than templar charges and is only surpassed by NB TS.

2. only magicka based leash that could be manually controlled (not like necro armour pulling everyone) WITH major expedition, which is perfect to coping with large groups of mobs.

3. Warmth that will slow down enemies by 30% just with hit. Not mentioning Ash Cloud...

4. Last but not least, one of the cheapest and most powerfull ultimates (and gap closer btw) also known as Dragon Leap AKA Batman.

Sangwyne wrote: »

and an execute. Which we still do not have.

Yeah, but Molten Whip with full charge gives you the same DMG that Executioner to enemies with ca. 15% health BUT it gives it always and is not scaling with enemies health.



So sure, I am playing and having fun with my imperial MagDK too, and I see that such melee magicka class based on Battlemage (I consider Dragonknight concept as a marketing move cause you know, Skyrim ) should have:

A. Better shielding, cause Obsidian is imho too weak and Supah-Ultimate is no replacement for regular skills (switch with Sorcerer conjuring armours would be perfect solution)

B. Bonuses to spell crit & penetration BUT only while using heavy armour to compensate what they are missing as close combat mages that cannont wear Light armour / or mirrored bonuses to light armour.


But we have what we have and we should use push to the limit before we start to complain.

So in addition short clip that DK wasn't always so awful & weak XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_IULsydyzc&t=321s

oscarovegren

DK needs
1. Reworked combustion to make stamDK and magDK benefit equally from this passive (It´s bad on magdk and awful on stamdk in combat metrix)
2. Mobility with snare removal and either major evasion or expedition (buff to protective scale morphs)
3. Reworked spammables. Spamming DoTs to have a decent whip or have some hybrid rock which is aoe, single target, melee and ranged is just awkward.
4. Make inhale morphs have the damage tooltips equal to sub assault/deep fissure/blastbones. One of the morphs should be poison/physical

ke.sardenb14_ESO

My stamDk was my first character, he is the one I take through all story content, he was the first character to get no deaths in vMA, and vVH. I still enjoy the class to this day.
But I remember the day stone giant was added, this class started to feel less impactful, so much so I took a break from the game until maybe when Markarth dropped. The ability feels like it takes away from both the aesthetic of the class, and the flow of the rotation.
There is a strong argument to be made that the DK(both stam and mag) lack the universal DPS passives to compete with the other classes, but at this point I just want the spammable to be something that flows with the class as well as the whip does for mag.

Mumbles_the_Tank

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Elendir2am wrote: »

The one advice. If we write that DK can't do well anything at all, then no one will take us seriously when addressing the class's real problems. Less is sometime more.

This.

DKs are among the top PvE tanks, and anyone claiming they aren't is just hurting the credibility of anything else they have to say.

As a 4yr DK and just general tank main (multiple trifectas/multiple classes) this simply isn’t true. Top in capability is not the same as what the meta finds necessary. DK maintains its role because what it can bring for everyone else is highly necessary. It’s not because it’s an exceptional tanking class in itself. It’s just the de facto tank because you won’t bring any other role DK if you can help it.

The class has become miserable to tank on in almost every vital facet of the job over the years.
Survivability and sustain is better, smoother and easier on almost every single other class besides Templar. Next patch even that may change!

Skills are too expensive, quirky or weak. Passives are meh and all their cracks are papered over with a highly overtuned defensive ultimate. So long as you can hit Magma or Horn as a reset for all the above problems - the devs will say the class is fine. These are basically the exact same issues plaguing the class in all roles and to downplay the tanking situation in comparison will not see the class revived as a whole.

It is very far from hyperbole to point out how bad the reality of DK is even for it’s assumed role. Take Engulfing and Stonefish (both ostensibly DD skills btw) out of the equation and they would be dropped in a heartbeat.

regime211

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

i'm not kidding, my front bar is (burning talons, fossilize, coag, whip, burning embers)
my back bar is (volatile armor, degeneration(light attacks healing you is always a + when weaving), wings, Flames of Oblivion, rapid regen (maelstrom resto))

based on you using having to build around lag, im assuming you play in vivec. you can build with bar swap animation canceling in mind if you play in shor/sotha (PC NA..)

balancing should not be made around lag.... find a way to get around the lag, like playing a less laggy campaign...

How's that sustain now?

ke.sardenb14_ESO

I'm honestly starting to think the only thing stamina players in PvE may get for the DK is their own version of zen. Which would not be a bad thing, but it would be lazy.

silver1surfer69

I Played Stam DK for 1.5 years from 2016 on and am playing it again since 2021 now. I am a pvper. I have played every class on stam except NB. Back in the day stam DK had such a worse sustain that is was very bad. That has been adressed in some buffs since. My oppinion/suggestions:

- Stam DK still need a bit sustain buff. (Compare eg Templar with getting 480 Stam or mag recovery by 1 skill, Rune Fokus)
- Compared to Mag DK, Which can heal automatically by a lot of skills, stam DK needs a bit more heal. Eg by a skill that does damage and heals you for a bit also.
- I agree with what many here already said, that Stam DK should have its identity towards a hybrid class to utilize both stam and mag. The mag part needs to be adjusted a bit for the stam dk, so it can be utilized better by the stam DK.

Thank you!

xI_The_Owl_Ix

Mumbles_the_Tank wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Elendir2am wrote: »

The one advice. If we write that DK can't do well anything at all, then no one will take us seriously when addressing the class's real problems. Less is sometime more.

This.

DKs are among the top PvE tanks, and anyone claiming they aren't is just hurting the credibility of anything else they have to say.

As a 4yr DK and just general tank main (multiple trifectas/multiple classes) this simply isn’t true. Top in capability is not the same as what the meta finds necessary. DK maintains its role because what it can bring for everyone else is highly necessary. It’s not because it’s an exceptional tanking class in itself. It’s just the de facto tank because you won’t bring any other role DK if you can help it.

The class has become miserable to tank on in almost every vital facet of the job over the years.
Survivability and sustain is better, smoother and easier on almost every single other class besides Templar. Next patch even that may change!

Skills are too expensive, quirky or weak. Passives are meh and all their cracks are papered over with a highly overtuned defensive ultimate. So long as you can hit Magma or Horn as a reset for all the above problems - the devs will say the class is fine. These are basically the exact same issues plaguing the class in all roles and to downplay the tanking situation in comparison will not see the class revived as a whole.

It is very far from hyperbole to point out how bad the reality of DK is even for it’s assumed role. Take Engulfing and Stonefish (both ostensibly DD skills btw) out of the equation and they would be dropped in a heartbeat.

Please elaborate. I just did some testing on my DK tank and recovered 14k Stamina in around 22seconds without using potions or ultimate. I was perma-blocking and simply casting balance and frag shield (in combat to not mess with the magicka recovery).

Thats around 600+ stamina per second, without ultimate usage. Should be more if you utilise the ulti passive. Most other classes have around 200 stamina/per second and thats max they can get since its usually tied to duration.

In trial situations with synergies and sets like worm cult and hollowfang thirst, that number should be even higher on a DK tank since they can transform magicka into stamina.

Would love to hear how other classes have better sustain...?


EDIT:

I did test ulti gen on my nord tank with heroic slash. I had a Warhorn ready after approx. 56 seconds. A Warhorn restores 11750 health and 12k magicka and stamina, which should be above 200+ stamina and magicka per second if you cast Warhorn the moment its castable. Which brings DK tank stam/per second to over 800+ and thats a rounded and ignoring the magicka you get from the ulti which you can transform into stamina.

800+ stam/per second on DK vs other classes which have ~240 stam/per second.
(as comparison NB tanks only have Leeching Strikes which costs 878 stamina and restores 4270 after 20secs. Meaning you have 169 stam/per second)

yeyesil

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

I Played Stam DK for 1.5 years from 2016 on and am playing it again since 2021 now. I am a pvper. I have played every class on stam except NB. Back in the day stam DK had such a worse sustain that is was very bad. That has been adressed in some buffs since. My oppinion/suggestions:

- Stam DK still need a bit sustain buff. (Compare eg Templar with getting 480 Stam or mag recovery by 1 skill, Rune Fokus)
- Compared to Mag DK, Which can heal automatically by a lot of skills, stam DK needs a bit more heal. Eg by a skill that does damage and heals you for a bit also.
- I agree with what many here already said, that Stam DK should have its identity towards a hybrid class to utilize both stam and mag. The mag part needs to be adjusted a bit for the stam dk, so it can be utilized better by the stam DK.

Thank you!

I play both stam and magicka dk for 4-5 years and your suggestions are completely wrong.

-Stamdk has one of the best stamina sustain in this game with combustion passive, low skill costs(%25 cost reduction to poison abilities), low cost and best burst ulti (leap) with resource return.

-Stamdk can use its magicka for %80-90 uptime major mending and low cost burst heal cauterize. You can have 25k+vigor tooltip with tanky builds.

On the other hand, magicka dk's sustain is one the worst in this game because of high costs of skills. The burst healing skill(coag blood) cannot be spammed and cauterize doesnt heal much unlike stamdk. Dots may not be enough to kill a stamina class and magdk has no execute damage. Without execute or any defile debuff, dots can be outhealed easily by stamina classes.

Here again I propose adding execute to one of magdk's dot skills. That way it can be utilized in both PvE and PvP environment.

Secondly magdk needs buff to its sustain.