[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

ke.sardenb14_ESO · March 2021

For the record stamDK pulls from the exact same sustain tools as magdk. Helping hands has 0 impact on either dps in PvE, and is negligible in PvP. The only function it provides is a sustain tool for tanks, since they get nothing from argent flame. So why not change it to something that can be more beneficial? like the flat resources return every single other class in the game gets.

ke.sardenb14_ESO · March 2021

Elo106 wrote: »

Buff Wings, gib magicka Execute. Please & Thank U

The single easiest way to bring DK dps as a whole to standard, is by making class dot have execute damage.

Ythotha · April 2021

This is from a pvp pov
Whip is the most iconic skill after leap for dk yet stamina does not have it.
Making the flame lash at least scale off of highest stats would be nice.

Casting stone giant feels clunky in pvp because you have it melee for the first cast then a ranged attack yet i dont understand why you have 12 seconds to cast the ranged ones. Make the stacks permanent as long as they are not used.

Other morph for stone giant is useless. There are better heals you can cast on yourself without needing a target, its damage is a joke and if you are playing healer resto skills are superior anyways. Change it to a truly melee stam ability as an alternative to stone giant.

Green dragon blood heal is so bad for the cost (Heck it would still be bad in pvp even if it cost 2k mag instead). Buffs you get from it are easily obtainable from potions. 8% healing received has very little impact on pvp since the pvp Buff reduces healing received already.

Sangwyne · April 2021

I don't understand the point of having a Dragonknight feedback thread if there aren't any plans to actually address any of the feedback. DK has been left in a broken state for a while, most of the playerbase seems to agree that it has the worst sustain in the game, and any class tier list you can find places it at or near the bottom in both PvE and PvP due to its many issues, not the least of which is its complete lack of anything even remotely approaching decent self-healing.

Ythotha wrote: »

This is from a pvp pov
Whip is the most iconic skill after leap for dk yet stamina does not have it.
Making the flame lash at least scale off of highest stats would be nice.

Casting stone giant feels clunky in pvp because you have it melee for the first cast then a ranged attack yet i dont understand why you have 12 seconds to cast the ranged ones. Make the stacks permanent as long as they are not used.

Other morph for stone giant is useless. There are better heals you can cast on yourself without needing a target, its damage is a joke and if you are playing healer resto skills are superior anyways. Change it to a truly melee stam ability as an alternative to stone giant.

Yes please, literally anything, just give Stam DK an actual skill. Make it a spammable, make it a heal, I don't even care, but it falls so short as an actual build compared to any other class, and it isn't like Mag DK is doing particularly well either. Stone Giant should either allow unlimited recasts or work like Grim Focus or Bound Armaments and simply give you a buff like Minor Resolve for like 40 seconds as the rocks shield you and allow you to generate stacks that you can consume to deal damage, but as it currently stands it's a sad excuse for a skill.

Ythotha wrote: »

Green dragon blood heal is so bad for the cost (Heck it would still be bad in pvp even if it cost 2k mag instead). Buffs you get from it are easily obtainable from potions. 8% healing received has very little impact on pvp since the pvp Buff reduces healing received already.

GDB is so bad... I don't understand why it even scales off missing health. It's only useful when you have absolutely ridiculous amounts of health and even then only when you're about to die anyway. Compare GDB to Warden's Arctic Blast; GDB heals for 25% of your health when you are at 25% Health (execute range), whereas Arctic Blast always heals for 25% HP at any stage, on top of healing for an additional 15% max HP over 5s, stunning enemies in an AOE around you for 4s, and dealing AOE DOT damage around you with 300% the chance to proc several buffs, debuffs and passives like Chilled, Minor Maim, and Glacial Presence and Minor Brittle for 20% critical damage. And it costs less, too.

Hotdog_23 · April 2021

Ythotha wrote: »

This is from a pvp pov
Whip is the most iconic skill after leap for dk yet stamina does not have it.
Making the flame lash at least scale off of highest stats would be nice.

Casting stone giant feels clunky in pvp because you have it melee for the first cast then a ranged attack yet i dont understand why you have 12 seconds to cast the ranged ones. Make the stacks permanent as long as they are not used.

Other morph for stone giant is useless. There are better heals you can cast on yourself without needing a target, its damage is a joke and if you are playing healer resto skills are superior anyways. Change it to a truly melee stam ability as an alternative to stone giant.

Green dragon blood heal is so bad for the cost (Heck it would still be bad in pvp even if it cost 2k mag instead). Buffs you get from it are easily obtainable from potions. 8% healing received has very little impact on pvp since the pvp Buff reduces healing received already.

Agree with all your points well said.

Sangwyne wrote: »

I don't understand the point of having a Dragonknight feedback thread if there aren't any plans to actually address any of the feedback. DK has been left in a broken state for a while, most of the playerbase seems to agree that it has the worst sustain in the game, and any class tier list you can find places it at or near the bottom in both PvE and PvP due to its many issues, not the least of which is its complete lack of anything even remotely approaching decent self-healing.

Ythotha wrote: »

This is from a pvp pov
Whip is the most iconic skill after leap for dk yet stamina does not have it.
Making the flame lash at least scale off of highest stats would be nice.

Casting stone giant feels clunky in pvp because you have it melee for the first cast then a ranged attack yet i dont understand why you have 12 seconds to cast the ranged ones. Make the stacks permanent as long as they are not used.

Other morph for stone giant is useless. There are better heals you can cast on yourself without needing a target, its damage is a joke and if you are playing healer resto skills are superior anyways. Change it to a truly melee stam ability as an alternative to stone giant.

Yes please, literally anything, just give Stam DK an actual skill. Make it a spammable, make it a heal, I don't even care, but it falls so short as an actual build compared to any other class, and it isn't like Mag DK is doing particularly well either. Stone Giant should either allow unlimited recasts or work like Grim Focus or Bound Armaments and simply give you a buff like Minor Resolve for like 40 seconds as the rocks shield you and allow you to generate stacks that you can consume to deal damage, but as it currently stands it's a sad excuse for a skill.

Ythotha wrote: »

Green dragon blood heal is so bad for the cost (Heck it would still be bad in pvp even if it cost 2k mag instead). Buffs you get from it are easily obtainable from potions. 8% healing received has very little impact on pvp since the pvp Buff reduces healing received already.

GDB is so bad... I don't understand why it even scales off missing health. It's only useful when you have absolutely ridiculous amounts of health and even then only when you're about to die anyway. Compare GDB to Warden's Arctic Blast; GDB heals for 25% of your health when you are at 25% Health (execute range), whereas Arctic Blast always heals for 25% HP at any stage, on top of healing for an additional 15% max HP over 5s, stunning enemies in an AOE around you for 4s, and dealing AOE DOT damage around you with 300% the chance to proc several buffs, debuffs and passives like Chilled, Minor Maim, and Glacial Presence and Minor Brittle for 20% critical damage. And it costs less, too.

Arctic Blast is a overloaded for sure.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

ArcVelarian · April 2021

Sangwyne wrote: »

I don't understand the point of having a Dragonknight feedback thread if there aren't any plans to actually address any of the feedback. DK has been left in a broken state for a while, most of the playerbase seems to agree that it has the worst sustain in the game, and any class tier list you can find places it at or near the bottom in both PvE and PvP due to its many issues, not the least of which is its complete lack of anything even remotely approaching decent self-healing.

Ythotha wrote: »

This is from a pvp pov
Whip is the most iconic skill after leap for dk yet stamina does not have it.
Making the flame lash at least scale off of highest stats would be nice.

Casting stone giant feels clunky in pvp because you have it melee for the first cast then a ranged attack yet i dont understand why you have 12 seconds to cast the ranged ones. Make the stacks permanent as long as they are not used.

Other morph for stone giant is useless. There are better heals you can cast on yourself without needing a target, its damage is a joke and if you are playing healer resto skills are superior anyways. Change it to a truly melee stam ability as an alternative to stone giant.

Yes please, literally anything, just give Stam DK an actual skill. Make it a spammable, make it a heal, I don't even care, but it falls so short as an actual build compared to any other class, and it isn't like Mag DK is doing particularly well either. Stone Giant should either allow unlimited recasts or work like Grim Focus or Bound Armaments and simply give you a buff like Minor Resolve for like 40 seconds as the rocks shield you and allow you to generate stacks that you can consume to deal damage, but as it currently stands it's a sad excuse for a skill.

Ythotha wrote: »

Green dragon blood heal is so bad for the cost (Heck it would still be bad in pvp even if it cost 2k mag instead). Buffs you get from it are easily obtainable from potions. 8% healing received has very little impact on pvp since the pvp Buff reduces healing received already.

GDB is so bad... I don't understand why it even scales off missing health. It's only useful when you have absolutely ridiculous amounts of health and even then only when you're about to die anyway. Compare GDB to Warden's Arctic Blast; GDB heals for 25% of your health when you are at 25% Health (execute range), whereas Arctic Blast always heals for 25% HP at any stage, on top of healing for an additional 15% max HP over 5s, stunning enemies in an AOE around you for 4s, and dealing AOE DOT damage around you with 300% the chance to proc several buffs, debuffs and passives like Chilled, Minor Maim, and Glacial Presence and Minor Brittle for 20% critical damage. And it costs less, too.

The Devs just inexplicably hate Dragonknights. Every change since the DOT nerf after Elsywer has made the class worse and worse, and we haven't gotten any buffs because PvPers would whine incessantly. That's despite the fact that No-Proc-Cyrodiil has revealed that DKs have been getting hard carried by Proc sets.

Hell, I don't even trust Zeni to buff DKs without completely screwing the class up further. It's clear that they have no idea what DKs are supposed to be.

LightYagami · April 2021

ArcVelarian wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

I don't understand the point of having a Dragonknight feedback thread if there aren't any plans to actually address any of the feedback. DK has been left in a broken state for a while, most of the playerbase seems to agree that it has the worst sustain in the game, and any class tier list you can find places it at or near the bottom in both PvE and PvP due to its many issues, not the least of which is its complete lack of anything even remotely approaching decent self-healing.

Ythotha wrote: »

This is from a pvp pov
Whip is the most iconic skill after leap for dk yet stamina does not have it.
Making the flame lash at least scale off of highest stats would be nice.

Casting stone giant feels clunky in pvp because you have it melee for the first cast then a ranged attack yet i dont understand why you have 12 seconds to cast the ranged ones. Make the stacks permanent as long as they are not used.

Other morph for stone giant is useless. There are better heals you can cast on yourself without needing a target, its damage is a joke and if you are playing healer resto skills are superior anyways. Change it to a truly melee stam ability as an alternative to stone giant.

Yes please, literally anything, just give Stam DK an actual skill. Make it a spammable, make it a heal, I don't even care, but it falls so short as an actual build compared to any other class, and it isn't like Mag DK is doing particularly well either. Stone Giant should either allow unlimited recasts or work like Grim Focus or Bound Armaments and simply give you a buff like Minor Resolve for like 40 seconds as the rocks shield you and allow you to generate stacks that you can consume to deal damage, but as it currently stands it's a sad excuse for a skill.

Ythotha wrote: »

Green dragon blood heal is so bad for the cost (Heck it would still be bad in pvp even if it cost 2k mag instead). Buffs you get from it are easily obtainable from potions. 8% healing received has very little impact on pvp since the pvp Buff reduces healing received already.

GDB is so bad... I don't understand why it even scales off missing health. It's only useful when you have absolutely ridiculous amounts of health and even then only when you're about to die anyway. Compare GDB to Warden's Arctic Blast; GDB heals for 25% of your health when you are at 25% Health (execute range), whereas Arctic Blast always heals for 25% HP at any stage, on top of healing for an additional 15% max HP over 5s, stunning enemies in an AOE around you for 4s, and dealing AOE DOT damage around you with 300% the chance to proc several buffs, debuffs and passives like Chilled, Minor Maim, and Glacial Presence and Minor Brittle for 20% critical damage. And it costs less, too.

The Devs just inexplicably hate Dragonknights. Every change since the DOT nerf after Elsywer has made the class worse and worse, and we haven't gotten any buffs because PvPers would whine incessantly. That's despite the fact that No-Proc-Cyrodiil has revealed that DKs have been getting hard carried by Proc sets.

Hell, I don't even trust Zeni to buff DKs without completely screwing the class up further. It's clear that they have no idea what DKs are supposed to be.

That's what I want to say too.
Somehow ZOS keeps nerfing DKs, especially magdks. They want to make magdks only work as PvE tanks.
Wings: nerfed.
Spike: nerfed.
Leap: nerfed.
DoT: heavily nerfed (and can be purged at PvP)
Stun: nerfed.
Cost: added.
Speed: slow.
Range: melee.
Burst: lacking.

I'm a PvP player with a magdk warlord, flawless conquerer title. I'm sure that magdk is one of the classes least frequently appearing on my death recaps.
Vast majority of PvPers gave in magdk PvP already.

If they have ever taken a look at PvP death recap data, I'm sure they'll notice the same outcome. Well, maybe they already know that but they just don't care magdks as the player base of magdk is already low.

In fact it's a loop:
changes and nerfs - magdks are bad - players stop playing the class - developers don't care about the low player base class when making changes - the class is worsen - more players leave the class - and so on...

Sangwyne · April 2021

ArcVelarian wrote: »

That's despite the fact that No-Proc-Cyrodiil has revealed that DKs have been getting hard carried by Proc sets.

When a class crutches so heavily on proc sets and non-class skills, it's a sure sign that the class itself is lacking. No other class is so bereft of basic mechanics as DK; we have no execute, no purge, no mobility, no spammable (Stam DK), no delayed damage, and are entirely melee but receive nothing as compensation for being melee-only. Sustain is the worst of any class and healing is terrible too, when's the last time you saw a DK healer anywhere?

ArcVelarian wrote: »

Hell, I don't even trust Zeni to buff DKs without completely screwing the class up further. It's clear that they have no idea what DKs are supposed to be.

I'm struggling to think of how they could even make the class worse at this point, there's only so much you can do when DKs are already running mostly non-class skills.

LightYagami wrote: »

In fact it's a loop:
changes and nerfs - magdks are bad - players stop playing the class - developers don't care about the low player base class when making changes - the class is worsen - more players leave the class - and so on...

We just need ZOS to release an expansion with a DK rework behind a paywall. Maybe then we'd get passives like "15% increased DOT damage" or "15% reduced DOT damage taken" instead of passives like "When you deal direct damage with an Ardent Flame ability, you reduce the enemy's Movement Speed by 30% for 3 seconds" when snares are already included on every other base skill and don't require a wasted passive. Or "Increases duration of your Earthen Heart abilities by 20%" instead of just making the base skills last longer.

YandereGirlfriend · April 2021

Not an exhaustive list but these are the minimum changes that I would like to see:

Max-stats-scaling Molten Whip.
Wings providing Major Expedition.
Cauterize healing two (or more, dream big!) targets just like Flames of Oblivion and moving Major Savagery to the base morph.
Increasing the radius of Ash Cloud to 6 meters.
Increasing the delayed burst damage of Inhale and no longer requiring the initial tick of damage to hit in order to trigger the secondary burst.
Increasing Combustion to 1000 resource return.

And then if you want to get crazy:

Corrosive Armor granting both Physical and Spell Penetration
Magma Shell applying its shield to a full 12-player raid

And that's on behalf of both PvP and PvE and across basically all roles.

Sleep724 · April 2021

Yes! The only way to get any actual buffs is to put the class behind a paywall.

On another note, with the upcoming nerf to malacaths ring, you could say DKs are getting another indirect nerf

LightYagami · April 2021

Sleep724 wrote: »

Yes! The only way to get any actual buffs is to put the class behind a paywall.

On another note, with the upcoming nerf to malacaths ring, you could say DKs are getting another indirect nerf

That's because the class is really weak apart from being PvE tanks (especially magdk in PvP).

Any general indirect nerfs will easily make the class much weaker comparing to many other classes.

A slow melee class with weak burst abilities and high cost... I hope developers try to use magdk in PvP for a month (against good players) and share us their feelings.

universal_wrath · April 2021

Starting with adrent skills:

* standard of might: this ultimate provides should provide 5-10% increase damage for allies to put it on par with other ultimates like warhorn and collusses.
* molten whip: this skill already give weapon damage on activation of adrent skills, so why stamina cannot use it? It should get soul trap treatment for scaling and damage choice between fire and maybe poison or physical.
* Burning embers: instead of being a burst heal skill, it should be a HoT to compensate for the lack of HoT in dragonknight kit and increase the survivability of melee magdk in PvE.
* flame of oblivion: this skill need its old form back as being a fire claok of 6-7 meters dealing x every 1-2 secs for the 10-15 secs.
* Cautirize: this skill should scale with max magicaka/stamina and fires off 2 heals for two targets or make it heal every 2-3 secs instead of every 5 secs. It is very weak and unreliable for dk healers to use because of how slow its heals are.

Draconic power:

* ferocious leap, this ultimate need its damage shield to be cut in half. To compensate for the shield cut, this ultimate should have a ground DoT on the landing spot that deals fire damage for x secs. Also, this ultimate stun should knock targets down instead of back to make sure they get stunned inside the ground dot instead of outside it.
* volitile armor: the Dot should be fire damage instead of magic, it only makes sense.
* inhale and its morphs: this skill should not need a proc condition for its second part. Currently, if the skill is activated without hitting a target, it will not activate the second part of the skill which is the explusion that happens after 2.5 secs. This fix should help mag dk to be bursty in PvP and it will also be more forgiving in case the first part of the skill accidently missed to hit a target.

Earthen heart:

* magma shell: this ultimate is one of the worst ultimares in the game. The damage mitigation is very powerful but this is about it. This ultimate ally damage shield is nice but it has a very small radius to be effective in comparison to barrier. It even only affect 4 or 6 people and has a short duration. The DoT is also very weak to be even worth considering. This ultimate should allow DoT to bypass resistance which is the oppesite of corrosive armor. Also, the ally cap and radius should be increased.
* obsidion shard: no target, no heals. Also, since it is a projectile it is very unreliable in 3 ways. First, you need to hit a target, what if a target dodge or become immune? Second, depening on how far is the target and travel distance of the obsidion shard to reach the target. Third, how far is the ally intended for the heal, it is close to enmey hit by obsidion shard or far for the heal to reach it. This skill should function differently and instead player should stomp their hand in the ground and burst a projectile or instantly heals their allies without the need of an enemy.
* shattering rock: need a target to be stuned and when it does stun, it has a low heal. This skill should be 21-28m stun. It should also keep its property is undodgoable and unblockable. As dragonknight mainly a slow melee class, having a range stun to compensate for its speed. Also, to reduce its power, it should not do any damage or heal on stun. Like old rune cage of sorcerer class, it will very annoying to deal with, but it is defenitly easier. Sorcerer is mainly a range class so they can do all their combo from 28ms to kill their targets. Dragonknight need to be in somewhat a melee rage to fully excercise their power.
* Ashe clouds and its morphs should have a radius increase and maybe a cost decrease.

Thannazzar · April 2021

1. Lack of a Stamina Whip Option
2. Passives too Situational in comparison to other classes

Sangwyne · April 2021

Absolutely zero meaningful changes to DK on the PTS. Templar got a %HP heal on Focus and Living Dark, meaning that DK is now the only class in the game without %Max HP heals. GDB scales off missing health rather than total %HP, meaning that it doesn't even begin to compare to %Max HP heals until you are already in execute range, at which point you might as well already be dead in PvP. No damage buffs despite being the lowest DPS in any trial, no healing buffs despite being the worst healer in the game. What a joke.

YandereGirlfriend · April 2021

Safe to say that the developers don't read this thread at all, FeelsBadMan.

yeyesil · April 2021

Sangwyne wrote: »

Absolutely zero meaningful changes to DK on the PTS. Templar got a %HP heal on Focus and Living Dark, meaning that DK is now the only class in the game without %Max HP heals. GDB scales off missing health rather than total %HP, meaning that it doesn't even begin to compare to %Max HP heals until you are already in execute range, at which point you might as well already be dead in PvP. No damage buffs despite being the lowest DPS in any trial, no healing buffs despite being the worst healer in the game. What a joke.

Why do we even want to play dk healer while there are better classes for healing? Do templars complain about pve tanking? Dk is better at tanking. Templar necro is better at healing. The game was better in old days when every class has a specific role and good at it. In addition stamdk has good dps atm. Stamdks can pull 100k+ dps and buff group with stagger while magdks can pull 95k dps with insane aoe damage and buffing group with support sets and flame damage boost. The only downside is that both are melee chatacters and ranged chatacters have more advantage in this game.

On the other Side I agree with you about buffing/changing GDB and making it work like other max HP heals. Its also useless in PVP and I think stamdks should benefit it in PVP like coag blood on magdks, arctic on wardens and even dark cloak on nbs. All of this hp scaling heals are stronger than GDB in pvp.

The most important problem of magdks is their sustain. The most expensive skills and still less dps. For pvp magdk and most other magicka classes are dependent on procs. They need more buff for pvp mechanics.

TwinLamps · April 2021

sDK could use #stamwhip

BejaProphet · April 2021

@yeyesil pve templars absolutely complain about tanking. For the record.

BejaProphet · April 2021

Sangwyne wrote: »

Absolutely zero meaningful changes to DK on the PTS. Templar got a %HP heal on Focus and Living Dark, meaning that DK is now the only class in the game without %Max HP heals. GDB scales off missing health rather than total %HP, meaning that it doesn't even begin to compare to %Max HP heals until you are already in execute range, at which point you might as well already be dead in PvP. No damage buffs despite being the lowest DPS in any trial, no healing buffs despite being the worst healer in the game. What a joke.

The eclipse being based on max health has nothing to do with heals. And the % heal that the templars got was 4.5% of max health per second while standing in their rune. That is going to work out to a 2k heal over time at 45k max health. Now combined with their major resistances that is a very nice ability. But Templar tanks still haven’t been given a burst self heal akin to GDB.

Sangwyne · April 2021

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Safe to say that the developers don't read this thread at all, FeelsBadMan.

Yup. Tired of writing paragraphs on everything wrong with DK just so the Devs can keep ignoring it.

DK is struggling. Buff the class.

ArcVelarian · April 2021

Sangwyne wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Safe to say that the developers don't read this thread at all, FeelsBadMan.

Yup. Tired of writing paragraphs on everything wrong with DK just so the Devs can keep ignoring it.

DK is struggling. Buff the class.

They'd rather let the class die and release more premium/paywall classes a la City of Heroes.

Elo106 · April 2021

ArcVelarian wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Safe to say that the developers don't read this thread at all, FeelsBadMan.

Yup. Tired of writing paragraphs on everything wrong with DK just so the Devs can keep ignoring it.

DK is struggling. Buff the class.

They'd rather let the class die and release more premium/paywall classes a la City of Heroes.

At this point I would buy a DK 2.0 Class

Extinct_Solo_Player · April 2021

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Not an exhaustive list but these are the minimum changes that I would like to see:
Max-stats-scaling Molten Whip.

Wings providing Major Expedition.

Cauterize healing two (or more, dream big!) targets just like Flames of Oblivion and moving Major Savagery to the base morph.

Increasing the radius of Ash Cloud to 6 meters.

Increasing the delayed burst damage of Inhale and no longer requiring the initial tick of damage to hit in order to trigger the secondary burst.

Increasing Combustion to 1000 resource return.

And then if you want to get crazy:
Corrosive Armor granting both Physical and Spell Penetration

Magma Shell applying its shield to a full 12-player raid

And that's on behalf of both PvP and PvE and across basically all roles.

ash cloud would still suck they should rework the entire ability being active on the player instead of being placed on the ground for an insane magicka cost (over 5.5k)

Extinct_Solo_Player · April 2021

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Not an exhaustive list but these are the minimum changes that I would like to see:
Max-stats-scaling Molten Whip.

Wings providing Major Expedition.

Cauterize healing two (or more, dream big!) targets just like Flames of Oblivion and moving Major Savagery to the base morph.

Increasing the radius of Ash Cloud to 6 meters.

Increasing the delayed burst damage of Inhale and no longer requiring the initial tick of damage to hit in order to trigger the secondary burst.

Increasing Combustion to 1000 resource return.

And then if you want to get crazy:
Corrosive Armor granting both Physical and Spell Penetration

Magma Shell applying its shield to a full 12-player raid

And that's on behalf of both PvP and PvE and across basically all roles.

ash cloud would still suck they should rework the entire ability being active on the player instead of being placed on the ground for an insane magicka cost (over 5.5k)

Just compare it to something like necro mender which costs over 2k less magicka heals and gives an unamed % damage reduction. Of course i dont want ash cloud and morphs to be that overturned but at least have the heal active on the player with a similar mag/stam cost. One morph heals the caster over a certain period of time while giving minor resolve and the other deal x amount of flame damage per second while giving minor breach. Something similar to that would be 100x better then the current ash cloud.

Sangwyne · April 2021

BejaProphet wrote: »

The eclipse being based on max health has nothing to do with heals. And the % heal that the templars got was 4.5% of max health per second while standing in their rune. That is going to work out to a 2k heal over time at 45k max health. Now combined with their major resistances that is a very nice ability. But Templar tanks still haven’t been given a burst self heal akin to GDB.

Living Dark's heal now scales with Max Health. Templar has two heals scaling off Max Health, DK has zero. Channeled Focus costs a quarter of what GDB costs, grants Major Resolve, 242 Magicka per second, and heals for 112.5% of Max Health over the duration. GDB costs 4 times as much, doesn't grant Major Resolve, and even if you had 100% of health missing (which means you're dead, btw) would only heal for 33% of your health, less than a third of what Channeled Focus now heals. Please don't call GDB a "burst heal". Getting 8% of my health back when I am already half-dead in PvP doesn't count as a burst heal. That same 45k HP build would get a whopping 3713 health "Burst Heal" from GDB when down to 50% HP in PvP. Wowee.

yeyesil wrote: »

Why do we even want to play dk healer while there are better classes for healing? Do templars complain about pve tanking?

Ok, but why is literally every class far, far better at healing? And templars definitely used to complain about PvE tanking, and for good reason. Probably not so much now that it's been addressed. So why can't DK healing and damage and sustain be addressed too?

yeyesil wrote: »

In addition stamdk has good dps atm. Stamdks can pull 100k+ dps and buff group with stagger while magdks can pull 95k dps with insane aoe damage and buffing group with support sets and flame damage boost. The only downside is that both are melee chatacters and ranged chatacters have more advantage in this game.

Show me these mythical 100k+ DPS Stam DKs that also buff groups with stagger. Show me. Because right now, and for several patches actually, Stam DK is the absolute worst DPS in trials even when taking an actual spammable and not the heaping pile of steaming garbage calling itself Stone Giant.

yeyesil wrote: »

On the other Side I agree with you about buffing/changing GDB and making it work like other max HP heals. Its also useless in PVP and I think stamdks should benefit it in PVP like coag blood on magdks, arctic on wardens and even dark cloak on nbs. All of this hp scaling heals are stronger than GDB in pvp.

Yup. Every other %HP heal in the game scales with max health, not %missing health. GDB, more like Garbage Dumpster Bin.

yeyesil wrote: »

The most important problem of magdks is their sustain. The most expensive skills and still less dps. For pvp magdk and most other magicka classes are dependent on procs. They need more buff for pvp mechanics.

For reference: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563487/pve-what-class-got-the-worst-sustain/p1 This was a month ago and still just as true as ever; DK alone got more votes for worst sustain that the rest of the classes combined. Everyone knows it's an issue and nothing has been done to address it.

the1andonlyskwex · April 2021

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Not an exhaustive list but these are the minimum changes that I would like to see:
Max-stats-scaling Molten Whip.

Wings providing Major Expedition.

Cauterize healing two (or more, dream big!) targets just like Flames of Oblivion and moving Major Savagery to the base morph.

Increasing the radius of Ash Cloud to 6 meters.

Increasing the delayed burst damage of Inhale and no longer requiring the initial tick of damage to hit in order to trigger the secondary burst.

Increasing Combustion to 1000 resource return.

And then if you want to get crazy:
Corrosive Armor granting both Physical and Spell Penetration

Magma Shell applying its shield to a full 12-player raid

And that's on behalf of both PvP and PvE and across basically all roles.

ash cloud would still suck they should rework the entire ability being active on the player instead of being placed on the ground for an insane magicka cost (over 5.5k)

I don't think it needs anything close to a rework of that magnitude. Just give it a larger radius and replace the 70% snare with some sort of buff for friendlies (I vote minor courage).

YandereGirlfriend · April 2021

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Not an exhaustive list but these are the minimum changes that I would like to see:
Max-stats-scaling Molten Whip.

Wings providing Major Expedition.

Cauterize healing two (or more, dream big!) targets just like Flames of Oblivion and moving Major Savagery to the base morph.

Increasing the radius of Ash Cloud to 6 meters.

Increasing the delayed burst damage of Inhale and no longer requiring the initial tick of damage to hit in order to trigger the secondary burst.

Increasing Combustion to 1000 resource return.

And then if you want to get crazy:
Corrosive Armor granting both Physical and Spell Penetration

Magma Shell applying its shield to a full 12-player raid

And that's on behalf of both PvP and PvE and across basically all roles.

ash cloud would still suck they should rework the entire ability being active on the player instead of being placed on the ground for an insane magicka cost (over 5.5k)

Cauterize is the healing ability that follows the caster (which is a strong enough solo heal but it's a straight up awful tool for a DK healer due to its single target and epic time between heals).

Ash Cloud should be the ground-based HoT akin to those of several other classes (Warden, NB, Templar, sort of Necro). As the poster below me mentioned, the radius is atrocious - honestly it needs to be 6 meters at a minimum and it really ought to be like 8 given the extreme cost of the skill versus comparable skills (or the dirt cheap Illustrious Healing...).

I also like their idea of removing the random snare and replacing it with a secondary beneficial effect that would serve to differentiate DK healers and maybe make them worth considering in content for more than the memes.

WaltherCarraway · April 2021

Rn I am stacking my Rapid Regeneration to 40k just to cater solo open world pvp in cp cyro + rss grab lol.

LightYagami · April 2021

Sangwyne wrote: »

Absolutely zero meaningful changes to DK on the PTS. Templar got a %HP heal on Focus and Living Dark, meaning that DK is now the only class in the game without %Max HP heals. GDB scales off missing health rather than total %HP, meaning that it doesn't even begin to compare to %Max HP heals until you are already in execute range, at which point you might as well already be dead in PvP. No damage buffs despite being the lowest DPS in any trial, no healing buffs despite being the worst healer in the game. What a joke.

I'm not sure about trials, but they're at really bad situations in PvP. Just see how rarely we see magdks on death recaps. Obviously much lower than many other classes.

Sangwyne wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

The eclipse being based on max health has nothing to do with heals. And the % heal that the templars got was 4.5% of max health per second while standing in their rune. That is going to work out to a 2k heal over time at 45k max health. Now combined with their major resistances that is a very nice ability. But Templar tanks still haven’t been given a burst self heal akin to GDB.

Living Dark's heal now scales with Max Health. Templar has two heals scaling off Max Health, DK has zero. Channeled Focus costs a quarter of what GDB costs, grants Major Resolve, 242 Magicka per second, and heals for 112.5% of Max Health over the duration. GDB costs 4 times as much, doesn't grant Major Resolve, and even if you had 100% of health missing (which means you're dead, btw) would only heal for 33% of your health, less than a third of what Channeled Focus now heals. Please don't call GDB a "burst heal". Getting 8% of my health back when I am already half-dead in PvP doesn't count as a burst heal. That same 45k HP build would get a whopping 3713 health "Burst Heal" from GDB when down to 50% HP in PvP. Wowee.

yeyesil wrote: »

Why do we even want to play dk healer while there are better classes for healing? Do templars complain about pve tanking?

Ok, but why is literally every class far, far better at healing? And templars definitely used to complain about PvE tanking, and for good reason. Probably not so much now that it's been addressed. So why can't DK healing and damage and sustain be addressed too?

yeyesil wrote: »

In addition stamdk has good dps atm. Stamdks can pull 100k+ dps and buff group with stagger while magdks can pull 95k dps with insane aoe damage and buffing group with support sets and flame damage boost. The only downside is that both are melee chatacters and ranged chatacters have more advantage in this game.

Show me these mythical 100k+ DPS Stam DKs that also buff groups with stagger. Show me. Because right now, and for several patches actually, Stam DK is the absolute worst DPS in trials even when taking an actual spammable and not the heaping pile of steaming garbage calling itself Stone Giant.

yeyesil wrote: »

On the other Side I agree with you about buffing/changing GDB and making it work like other max HP heals. Its also useless in PVP and I think stamdks should benefit it in PVP like coag blood on magdks, arctic on wardens and even dark cloak on nbs. All of this hp scaling heals are stronger than GDB in pvp.

Yup. Every other %HP heal in the game scales with max health, not %missing health. GDB, more like Garbage Dumpster Bin.

yeyesil wrote: »

The most important problem of magdks is their sustain. The most expensive skills and still less dps. For pvp magdk and most other magicka classes are dependent on procs. They need more buff for pvp mechanics.

For reference: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563487/pve-what-class-got-the-worst-sustain/p1 This was a month ago and still just as true as ever; DK alone got more votes for worst sustain that the rest of the classes combined. Everyone knows it's an issue and nothing has been done to address it.

The sustain is so bad especially in PvP.
Some said that DKs can use ults to regen resources which is true, BUTin PvP, timing of ults is extremely crucial. If they have to use ults to regenerate resources, they are likely unable to retain the ult for a finishing hit, that makes dks (especially Magdks) bad at killing enemies.

By the way, allow me to reiterate one point... Some still say that leap is an execution. NO it's not. Execution damage ranks up when the health of the enemies goes down. Leap is simply NOT that case. DKs have NO ANY class execution skill.

BejaProphet · April 2021

@Sangwyne

I’m not saying you have no point to make. But you are spinning the numbers that (while accurate) leave a false impression.

1. Something is a burst heal or heal over time. I will call GDB what it is, a burst heal. The fact that the skill hurts your feelings doesn’t change its function.

2. You saying something scales off max health does not change its function. Yes, the Templars rune is awesome for all the reasons you state. But when you are talking about a list of burst heals, and then drop in the Templars rune without qualification, that horribly misrepresents it. You complain that GDB isn’t going to save you when you are in execute range. Well...rune DANG sure isn’t either. So you talk about rune as 100%+ max health heal and being so amazing, then you talk about GDB in terms of a specific moment and context which you find it ill suited for. You neglect to mention that rune is going to do even WORSE than GDB in that same moment.

Why not point out that in PvP, when a Templar is in execute range and casts rune, it’s going to be nothing but a 1k heal over time? That doesn’t help. So you just talk about the big % number in PvE as if the whole heal was dumped on them.

3. Finally, you talk about Rune in the most grandiose numbers possible, the entire bulk % in PvE, as if the duration of delivery isn’t worth noting. Then all your numbers for GDB at the end are what you get when it’s BATTLE SPIRIT nerfed in PvP. That’s not a fair comparison.

You are playing games with data, to make your case seem larger.

Make your case. If DK’s are broken, fine. You may have a good point. Just make it honestly.