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Cancel animation canceling
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This reminds me of a game I used to play before it died out. It was called "Gunz: The Duel." One of the big forum complaints was a gameplay 'style' called K-Style. Through rapid timed button presses a character could basically fly along the walls by slashing the wall, jumping and blocking in immediate succession, they'd use this plus dashing to basically fly around and come in quick and hit ya and flee, or if guns were enabled switch to shotgun for the like 3 frames to fire the freaking thing before switching back to blocking sword, making it hard to hit them since blocking with a sword in that game blocks bullets (it was built to imitate action flicks). However it wasn't perfect, for one thing, if guns were enabled, while the torso is protected when blocking, the legs weren't, so shooting the legs still hurt them. And if you had only a sword, well you can still block and stun them if you're good enough. I lost count how man games I got kicked from for being a 'hacker' because I could stand my own against K-styling without using it.
Granted this is more of a mechanic than K-styling was and I can see the use, but I do agree some tweaks could make it feel less.... glitch and more mechanic.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everyone wants everything but only a small fraction of people is willing to put the necessary effort in. Shame on you. How about less typing on the forums and more practicing on target dummy? Works wonders.
You share a mentality with people who pay others to clear content for them. Never got what's so exciting about wearing an item or a title you haven't earned with effort. It's meaningless.
Btw we are talking about a simple left click before each skill. Don't you feel ridiculous for being so upset about something so easy? A few hours with our friend the target dummy and it becomes second nature. But that's asking too much, hm?
Sorry to everyone who is hindered by disabilities. That actually sucks.
Have you even read some of the arguments?
You mean the arguments about sound and visuals getting out of control when ACing? Or the RP arguments? Yeah, I've read some of them.
Looks like excuses for being lazy to me.
Then you simply don't understand what roleplay means - where not the players abilities are in the forground,but a characters abilities.That twitchy combat in ESO is focussing on hand-eye coordination and quick fingers -sounds like real world skills to me -and that is wrong in a role playing game -and ESO is still an MMORPG - or it should be, but is not in pvp combat.
Again. How the hell does AC ruin any RPing for you? Please explain that to me. You are certainly not forced to do it for any of the story related content.
You just hate the competetive aspect of this game. You want the game to be suited 100% for you and your RP desire and anything besides that is just bugs and exploits and garbage. But there is not only you. There are many people who are not here for RP and for whom online games like this one are more some kind of sports. And it doesn't even interfere with you. It's basically two different worlds. But for some myterious reason it's not cool for you that others play this game differently. Think about that. I'm not asking for the story or quests to be removed because I don't like to play them, am I?
If it would be after my liking - there would be a pve server and a pvp server - each with skills made for this playstyle -that this is a mix and pvp "balance" is messing up the experience with any new patch,because something is changing in the skill section, is not really fun to me. Because I am casual player,it takes me an eternity to level up - I am ok with this, but it is really annoying to have to deal with these changes all the time, which would not be necessary, if it would be a pure pve server.
So yes, it affects me, even I am not pvping.
Which (combat-) patch in the past affected your playstyle? For me it's pretty much every single major patch they introduce. You RPers are the people who get affected the least by those changes, if at all. And still you feel the need to take from us.
The PvP/PvE balancing topic is a completely different one btw. Many top PvEers AND PvPer would agree to balance it seperately. Has nothing to do with ACing though. Even in PvE I wanna be able to block the bosses attack whenever I have to.
Also sorry for getting harsh. I'm super agitated by this topic. Especially if people wanna take something from me that doesn't even affect them. Or only very mildly affects them.
I am not taking anything from you, I know that it will not change - ZOS likes it as it is, so it is here to stay - but I can still make a suggestion and argue it from my point of view.
Well, what effected me this time?- the change in the cloak morph for NB - a hit and run tactic class gets a heal instead of a cloak within the shadow abilities - what kind of a change is this actually?- a glass cannon class gets a heal - wtf.0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭they could always bridge the gap by making light attacks a toggle that fires off like inferno does every 3-4 seconds. If you can do better than that you can toggle it off for manual control.
So you want the developers to abandon their original vision of an active combat MMORPG (see my post a page or two ago with developer quotes) and introduce boring, passive auto-attacking into the game, like just about every outdated, old-school MMO out there, because some people can’t/won’t learn how to weave. Gotcha.
0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭they could always bridge the gap by making light attacks a toggle that fires off like inferno does every 3-4 seconds. If you can do better than that you can toggle it off for manual control.
So you want the developers to abandon their original vision of an active combat MMORPG (see my post a page or two ago with developer quotes) and introduce boring, passive auto-attacking into the game, like just about every outdated, old-school MMO out there, because some people can’t/won’t learn how to weave. Gotcha.
I like the general combat with free targeting and so - much like it was in the other TES games - I am not using AC and weaving, I do one move at a time, letting the animation complete. My choice, I just thought it could be better and more interesting. But it does not seem to be after the liking of people and not after the liking of ZOS, so be it - I made my point and that's it.
Edit: I have lots of others though - like who the hell thought it would be a good interface to tap E a hundred times to buy 100 units of a style material on PC?- that is lazy design and a bad decision - for example.Edited by Lysette on May 29, 2018 3:11PM1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭they could always bridge the gap by making light attacks a toggle that fires off like inferno does every 3-4 seconds. If you can do better than that you can toggle it off for manual control.
So you want the developers to abandon their original vision of an active combat MMORPG (see my post a page or two ago with developer quotes) and introduce boring, passive auto-attacking into the game, like just about every outdated, old-school MMO out there, because some people can’t/won’t learn how to weave. Gotcha.
I like the general combat with free targeting and so - much like it was in the other TES games - I am not using AC and weaving, I do one move at a time, letting the animation complete. My choice, I just thought it could be better and more interesting. But it does not seem to be after the liking of people and not after the liking of ZOS, so be it - I made my point and that's it.
Edit: I have lots of others though - like who the hell thought it would be a good interface to tap E a hundred times to buy 100 units of a style material on PC?- that is lazy design and a bad decision - for example.
I also do one move at a time, with weaving. The animations all complete, with the occasional exception of the recovery animation of light attacks, and volatile familiar (which I bar-swap cancel to cut off the recovery animation — you can still see that I’m casting volatile familiar). Weaving is easily the most poorly understood process in this game. It does not speed up, chop off, or completely negate your skill animations. You still do skills one at a time when you weave. You don’t fire them off simultaneously. You also fire off light attacks one at a time. You don’t fire them simultaneously with skills. It’s LA > skill > LA > skill > LA > skill > LA > skill > barswap > LA > skill, etc. Those are single abilities pressed in rapid succession, one at a time.
Auto-light attacks, as per your suggestion, would be completely antithetical to the original vision for active combat in this game.
Edited by Aurielle on May 29, 2018 3:21PM0 -
Odnoc✭✭✭✭With all the “the game is too easy” posts I see, the simple thing to do would be to turn it off, maybe they should.
lols that would just make the game even easier, the opposite of the goal of your change!
Animation cancelling requires skill, that is the reason it is good. Is it hard? In reality, no. Not even a little. But maybe it is hard for some players.
Removing AC from the game would make the game incredibly slow paced, and, get this, it would ruin the combat system! Stop arguing for it!
Nah, it would lower DPS, most of the "too easy" posts I see complain about how easy it is to burn things down. It would change the combat system, don't know about ruining it, just maybe give NPC's time to attack back.
0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭they could always bridge the gap by making light attacks a toggle that fires off like inferno does every 3-4 seconds. If you can do better than that you can toggle it off for manual control.
So you want the developers to abandon their original vision of an active combat MMORPG (see my post a page or two ago with developer quotes) and introduce boring, passive auto-attacking into the game, like just about every outdated, old-school MMO out there, because some people can’t/won’t learn how to weave. Gotcha.
I like the general combat with free targeting and so - much like it was in the other TES games - I am not using AC and weaving, I do one move at a time, letting the animation complete. My choice, I just thought it could be better and more interesting. But it does not seem to be after the liking of people and not after the liking of ZOS, so be it - I made my point and that's it.
Edit: I have lots of others though - like who the hell thought it would be a good interface to tap E a hundred times to buy 100 units of a style material on PC?- that is lazy design and a bad decision - for example.
I also do one move at a time, with weaving. The animations all complete, with the occasional exception of the recovery animation of light attacks, and volatile familiar (which I bar-swap cancel to cut off the recovery animation — you can still see that I’m casting volatile familiar). Weaving is easily the most poorly understood process in this game. It does not speed up, chop off, or completely negate your skill animations. You still do skills one at a time when you weave. You don’t fire them off simultaneously. You also fire off light attacks one at a time. You don’t fire them simultaneously with skills. It’s LA > skill > LA > skill > LA > skill > LA > skill > barswap > LA > skill, etc. Those are single abilities pressed in rapid succession, one at a time.
Auto-light attacks, as per your suggestion, would be completely antithetical to the original vision for active combat in this game.
Auto-attacks were not my suggestion, I like to do it one by one. Well, I guess I missunderstood what weaving actually means, because I do it pretty much how you describe it - just not every time, but just occasionally, it more like switching from skills to weapon usage - not sure, if this would even count as weaving - even some of the sequences are like you describe them.0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭they could always bridge the gap by making light attacks a toggle that fires off like inferno does every 3-4 seconds. If you can do better than that you can toggle it off for manual control.
So you want the developers to abandon their original vision of an active combat MMORPG (see my post a page or two ago with developer quotes) and introduce boring, passive auto-attacking into the game, like just about every outdated, old-school MMO out there, because some people can’t/won’t learn how to weave. Gotcha.
I like the general combat with free targeting and so - much like it was in the other TES games - I am not using AC and weaving, I do one move at a time, letting the animation complete. My choice, I just thought it could be better and more interesting. But it does not seem to be after the liking of people and not after the liking of ZOS, so be it - I made my point and that's it.
Edit: I have lots of others though - like who the hell thought it would be a good interface to tap E a hundred times to buy 100 units of a style material on PC?- that is lazy design and a bad decision - for example.
I also do one move at a time, with weaving. The animations all complete, with the occasional exception of the recovery animation of light attacks, and volatile familiar (which I bar-swap cancel to cut off the recovery animation — you can still see that I’m casting volatile familiar). Weaving is easily the most poorly understood process in this game. It does not speed up, chop off, or completely negate your skill animations. You still do skills one at a time when you weave. You don’t fire them off simultaneously. You also fire off light attacks one at a time. You don’t fire them simultaneously with skills. It’s LA > skill > LA > skill > LA > skill > LA > skill > barswap > LA > skill, etc. Those are single abilities pressed in rapid succession, one at a time.
Auto-light attacks, as per your suggestion, would be completely antithetical to the original vision for active combat in this game.
Auto-attacks were not my suggestion, I like to do it one by one. Well, I guess I missunderstood what weaving actually means, because I do it pretty much how you describe it - just not every time, but just occasionally, it more like switching from skills to weapon usage - not sure, if this would even count as weaving - even some of the sequences are like you describe them.
Apologies, I’m on my phone. My mistake.
But yeah, weaving is just firing off a light attack before a skill. It’s a muscle memory thing. Weaving doesn’t speed up an attack, prevent your animations from being seen, or do anything nefarious.
In the video I posted earlier (reposted below), you can see me weaving. I click my light attack button before every skill in the rotation. It doesn’t always work, because I still need more practice (and a guild hall that’s not quite as laggy ). Every light attack does not need to go off to do enough DPS for all veteran content in this game.
https://youtu.be/Q5XDE7TLRoc 0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Without reading 10 pages of comments (duh), just the title made multiple questions pop in my mind:
What would the max possible dps be without animation cancelling?
Would it still be possible to complete vet dungeon speedruns? (Maybe)
Would it still be possible to complete vet trials? (Questionable - speedruns definitely not)
How would it affect survivability? (Healer skills, casting harness magicka, etc)
@resdayn00 depends what You excalty mean by animation cancelling and is light attack weaving also included by You in that.
But
What would the max possible dps be without animation cancelling? Depends of build for experienced player 10-15k lower without light attacks which still is over 40k single
Would it still be possible to complete vet dungeon speedruns? Easily
Would it still be possible to complete vet trials? Yes including speed runs and most of hard modes
How would it affect survivability? Um what ?
Light attack weaving and animations cancelling is not mandatory to complete any content in the game it is just improvement that helps You to be better player. If someones cant beat speed run on vet dungeon then this doesnt mean he's bad at animation cancelling and this is main reason , that means he's currently bad at the game and this is main reason. He can get better without learning animation cancelling but it's still good thing to learn.
Edited by Juhasow on May 29, 2018 3:40PM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Everyone wants everything but only a small fraction of people is willing to put the necessary effort in. Shame on you. How about less typing on the forums and more practicing on target dummy? Works wonders.
You share a mentality with people who pay others to clear content for them. Never got what's so exciting about wearing an item or a title you haven't earned with effort. It's meaningless.
Btw we are talking about a simple left click before each skill. Don't you feel ridiculous for being so upset about something so easy? A few hours with our friend the target dummy and it becomes second nature. But that's asking too much, hm?
Sorry to everyone who is hindered by disabilities. That actually sucks.
Have you even read some of the arguments?
You mean the arguments about sound and visuals getting out of control when ACing? Or the RP arguments? Yeah, I've read some of them.
Looks like excuses for being lazy to me.
Then you simply don't understand what roleplay means - where not the players abilities are in the forground,but a characters abilities.That twitchy combat in ESO is focussing on hand-eye coordination and quick fingers -sounds like real world skills to me -and that is wrong in a role playing game -and ESO is still an MMORPG - or it should be, but is not in pvp combat.
Again. How the hell does AC ruin any RPing for you? Please explain that to me. You are certainly not forced to do it for any of the story related content.
You just hate the competetive aspect of this game. You want the game to be suited 100% for you and your RP desire and anything besides that is just bugs and exploits and garbage. But there is not only you. There are many people who are not here for RP and for whom online games like this one are more some kind of sports. And it doesn't even interfere with you. It's basically two different worlds. But for some myterious reason it's not cool for you that others play this game differently. Think about that. I'm not asking for the story or quests to be removed because I don't like to play them, am I?
If it would be after my liking - there would be a pve server and a pvp server - each with skills made for this playstyle -that this is a mix and pvp "balance" is messing up the experience with any new patch,because something is changing in the skill section, is not really fun to me. Because I am casual player,it takes me an eternity to level up - I am ok with this, but it is really annoying to have to deal with these changes all the time, which would not be necessary, if it would be a pure pve server.
So yes, it affects me, even I am not pvping.
Which (combat-) patch in the past affected your playstyle? For me it's pretty much every single major patch they introduce. You RPers are the people who get affected the least by those changes, if at all. And still you feel the need to take from us.
The PvP/PvE balancing topic is a completely different one btw. Many top PvEers AND PvPer would agree to balance it seperately. Has nothing to do with ACing though. Even in PvE I wanna be able to block the bosses attack whenever I have to.
Also sorry for getting harsh. I'm super agitated by this topic. Especially if people wanna take something from me that doesn't even affect them. Or only very mildly affects them.
I am not taking anything from you, I know that it will not change - ZOS likes it as it is, so it is here to stay - but I can still make a suggestion and argue it from my point of view.
Well, what effected me this time?- the change in the cloak morph for NB - a hit and run tactic class gets a heal instead of a cloak within the shadow abilities - what kind of a change is this actually?- a glass cannon class gets a heal - wtf.
You do realise that the other morph of cloak which was the better option to begin with remained untouched right?
Also, how is the dark cloak change related to AC or whether PVP and PVE should be balanced seperately?
0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭they could always bridge the gap by making light attacks a toggle that fires off like inferno does every 3-4 seconds. If you can do better than that you can toggle it off for manual control.
So you want the developers to abandon their original vision of an active combat MMORPG (see my post a page or two ago with developer quotes) and introduce boring, passive auto-attacking into the game, like just about every outdated, old-school MMO out there, because some people can’t/won’t learn how to weave. Gotcha.
I like the general combat with free targeting and so - much like it was in the other TES games - I am not using AC and weaving, I do one move at a time, letting the animation complete. My choice, I just thought it could be better and more interesting. But it does not seem to be after the liking of people and not after the liking of ZOS, so be it - I made my point and that's it.
Edit: I have lots of others though - like who the hell thought it would be a good interface to tap E a hundred times to buy 100 units of a style material on PC?- that is lazy design and a bad decision - for example.
I also do one move at a time, with weaving. The animations all complete, with the occasional exception of the recovery animation of light attacks, and volatile familiar (which I bar-swap cancel to cut off the recovery animation — you can still see that I’m casting volatile familiar). Weaving is easily the most poorly understood process in this game. It does not speed up, chop off, or completely negate your skill animations. You still do skills one at a time when you weave. You don’t fire them off simultaneously. You also fire off light attacks one at a time. You don’t fire them simultaneously with skills. It’s LA > skill > LA > skill > LA > skill > LA > skill > barswap > LA > skill, etc. Those are single abilities pressed in rapid succession, one at a time.
Auto-light attacks, as per your suggestion, would be completely antithetical to the original vision for active combat in this game.
Auto-attacks were not my suggestion, I like to do it one by one. Well, I guess I missunderstood what weaving actually means, because I do it pretty much how you describe it - just not every time, but just occasionally, it more like switching from skills to weapon usage - not sure, if this would even count as weaving - even some of the sequences are like you describe them.
Apologies, I’m on my phone. My mistake.
But yeah, weaving is just firing off a light attack before a skill. It’s a muscle memory thing. Weaving doesn’t speed up an attack, prevent your animations from being seen, or do anything nefarious.
In the video I posted earlier (reposted below), you can see me weaving. I click my light attack button before every skill in the rotation. It doesn’t always work, because I still need more practice (and a guild hall that’s not quite as laggy ). Every light attack does not need to go off to do enough DPS for all veteran content in this game.https://youtu.be/Q5XDE7TLRoc
Well, seems I do it sometimes in a similar way, just not that fast and not that consequent - it's more like LA-LA-skill-LA-LA-skill-LA-LA skill until the enemy is charging a special attack, then I change to heavy attacks. With the bow it is more like snipe-snipe-snipe - and if still necessary bar switch, gap closer and then I use my melee weapon, eventually with a finisher skill. It is not really consequent, I know.
Edit: Or maybe it is, because my melee attacks do more damage than my skills - due to my focus on critical damage output.Edited by Lysette on May 29, 2018 3:56PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everyone wants everything but only a small fraction of people is willing to put the necessary effort in. Shame on you. How about less typing on the forums and more practicing on target dummy? Works wonders.
You share a mentality with people who pay others to clear content for them. Never got what's so exciting about wearing an item or a title you haven't earned with effort. It's meaningless.
Btw we are talking about a simple left click before each skill. Don't you feel ridiculous for being so upset about something so easy? A few hours with our friend the target dummy and it becomes second nature. But that's asking too much, hm?
Sorry to everyone who is hindered by disabilities. That actually sucks.
Have you even read some of the arguments?
You mean the arguments about sound and visuals getting out of control when ACing? Or the RP arguments? Yeah, I've read some of them.
Looks like excuses for being lazy to me.
Then you simply don't understand what roleplay means - where not the players abilities are in the forground,but a characters abilities.That twitchy combat in ESO is focussing on hand-eye coordination and quick fingers -sounds like real world skills to me -and that is wrong in a role playing game -and ESO is still an MMORPG - or it should be, but is not in pvp combat.
Again. How the hell does AC ruin any RPing for you? Please explain that to me. You are certainly not forced to do it for any of the story related content.
You just hate the competetive aspect of this game. You want the game to be suited 100% for you and your RP desire and anything besides that is just bugs and exploits and garbage. But there is not only you. There are many people who are not here for RP and for whom online games like this one are more some kind of sports. And it doesn't even interfere with you. It's basically two different worlds. But for some myterious reason it's not cool for you that others play this game differently. Think about that. I'm not asking for the story or quests to be removed because I don't like to play them, am I?
If it would be after my liking - there would be a pve server and a pvp server - each with skills made for this playstyle -that this is a mix and pvp "balance" is messing up the experience with any new patch,because something is changing in the skill section, is not really fun to me. Because I am casual player,it takes me an eternity to level up - I am ok with this, but it is really annoying to have to deal with these changes all the time, which would not be necessary, if it would be a pure pve server.
So yes, it affects me, even I am not pvping.
Which (combat-) patch in the past affected your playstyle? For me it's pretty much every single major patch they introduce. You RPers are the people who get affected the least by those changes, if at all. And still you feel the need to take from us.
The PvP/PvE balancing topic is a completely different one btw. Many top PvEers AND PvPer would agree to balance it seperately. Has nothing to do with ACing though. Even in PvE I wanna be able to block the bosses attack whenever I have to.
Also sorry for getting harsh. I'm super agitated by this topic. Especially if people wanna take something from me that doesn't even affect them. Or only very mildly affects them.
I am not taking anything from you, I know that it will not change - ZOS likes it as it is, so it is here to stay - but I can still make a suggestion and argue it from my point of view.
Well, what effected me this time?- the change in the cloak morph for NB - a hit and run tactic class gets a heal instead of a cloak within the shadow abilities - what kind of a change is this actually?- a glass cannon class gets a heal - wtf.
You do realise that the other morph of cloak which was the better option to begin with remained untouched right?
Also, how is the dark cloak change related to AC or whether PVP and PVE should be balanced seperately?
A glass cannon hit and run tactic class does not need a heal ability - it is meant to be vulnerable when exposed - this is just there because people want it balanced - I do not want it balanced, I want a glass cannon class to be a high damage burst damage dealer which is vulnerable when exposed and unable to get away quickly - balance is what is ruining roleplay.
And why in the shadow section and not in siphoning, what is meant for this purpose.
Edit: a temporary skill to counter getting exposed would have been nice - and it would fit the shadow section much better - it should be a stealth oriented skill, not a healing ability.Edited by Lysette on May 29, 2018 4:15PM0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Everyone wants everything but only a small fraction of people is willing to put the necessary effort in. Shame on you. How about less typing on the forums and more practicing on target dummy? Works wonders.
You share a mentality with people who pay others to clear content for them. Never got what's so exciting about wearing an item or a title you haven't earned with effort. It's meaningless.
Btw we are talking about a simple left click before each skill. Don't you feel ridiculous for being so upset about something so easy? A few hours with our friend the target dummy and it becomes second nature. But that's asking too much, hm?
Sorry to everyone who is hindered by disabilities. That actually sucks.
Have you even read some of the arguments?
You mean the arguments about sound and visuals getting out of control when ACing? Or the RP arguments? Yeah, I've read some of them.
Looks like excuses for being lazy to me.
Then you simply don't understand what roleplay means - where not the players abilities are in the forground,but a characters abilities.That twitchy combat in ESO is focussing on hand-eye coordination and quick fingers -sounds like real world skills to me -and that is wrong in a role playing game -and ESO is still an MMORPG - or it should be, but is not in pvp combat.
Again. How the hell does AC ruin any RPing for you? Please explain that to me. You are certainly not forced to do it for any of the story related content.
You just hate the competetive aspect of this game. You want the game to be suited 100% for you and your RP desire and anything besides that is just bugs and exploits and garbage. But there is not only you. There are many people who are not here for RP and for whom online games like this one are more some kind of sports. And it doesn't even interfere with you. It's basically two different worlds. But for some myterious reason it's not cool for you that others play this game differently. Think about that. I'm not asking for the story or quests to be removed because I don't like to play them, am I?
If it would be after my liking - there would be a pve server and a pvp server - each with skills made for this playstyle -that this is a mix and pvp "balance" is messing up the experience with any new patch,because something is changing in the skill section, is not really fun to me. Because I am casual player,it takes me an eternity to level up - I am ok with this, but it is really annoying to have to deal with these changes all the time, which would not be necessary, if it would be a pure pve server.
So yes, it affects me, even I am not pvping.
Which (combat-) patch in the past affected your playstyle? For me it's pretty much every single major patch they introduce. You RPers are the people who get affected the least by those changes, if at all. And still you feel the need to take from us.
The PvP/PvE balancing topic is a completely different one btw. Many top PvEers AND PvPer would agree to balance it seperately. Has nothing to do with ACing though. Even in PvE I wanna be able to block the bosses attack whenever I have to.
Also sorry for getting harsh. I'm super agitated by this topic. Especially if people wanna take something from me that doesn't even affect them. Or only very mildly affects them.
I am not taking anything from you, I know that it will not change - ZOS likes it as it is, so it is here to stay - but I can still make a suggestion and argue it from my point of view.
Well, what effected me this time?- the change in the cloak morph for NB - a hit and run tactic class gets a heal instead of a cloak within the shadow abilities - what kind of a change is this actually?- a glass cannon class gets a heal - wtf.
You do realise that the other morph of cloak which was the better option to begin with remained untouched right?
Also, how is the dark cloak change related to AC or whether PVP and PVE should be balanced seperately?
A glass cannon hit and run tactic class does not need a heal ability - it is meant to be vulnerable when exposed - this is just there because people want it balanced - I do not want it balanced, I want a glass cannon class to be a high damage burst damage dealer which is vulnerable when exposed and unable to get away quickly - balance is what is ruining roleplay.
And why in the shadow section and not in siphoning, what is meant for this purpose.
Edit: a temporary skill to counter getting exposed would have been nice - and it would fit the shadow section much better - it should be a stealth oriented skill, not a healing ability.
I play a sap tank in PvP and he is far, far from being a glass cannon. So cloak's change was a good one for that build.
Will I use that skill on my glass cannon? Never. She needs the crits more than the heals to kill.
But hey, ZoS gave ALL glass cannons a heal that can be used while cloaked
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Ta da!Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
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In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Everyone wants everything but only a small fraction of people is willing to put the necessary effort in. Shame on you. How about less typing on the forums and more practicing on target dummy? Works wonders.
You share a mentality with people who pay others to clear content for them. Never got what's so exciting about wearing an item or a title you haven't earned with effort. It's meaningless.
Btw we are talking about a simple left click before each skill. Don't you feel ridiculous for being so upset about something so easy? A few hours with our friend the target dummy and it becomes second nature. But that's asking too much, hm?
Sorry to everyone who is hindered by disabilities. That actually sucks.
Have you even read some of the arguments?
You mean the arguments about sound and visuals getting out of control when ACing? Or the RP arguments? Yeah, I've read some of them.
Looks like excuses for being lazy to me.
Then you simply don't understand what roleplay means - where not the players abilities are in the forground,but a characters abilities.That twitchy combat in ESO is focussing on hand-eye coordination and quick fingers -sounds like real world skills to me -and that is wrong in a role playing game -and ESO is still an MMORPG - or it should be, but is not in pvp combat.
Again. How the hell does AC ruin any RPing for you? Please explain that to me. You are certainly not forced to do it for any of the story related content.
You just hate the competetive aspect of this game. You want the game to be suited 100% for you and your RP desire and anything besides that is just bugs and exploits and garbage. But there is not only you. There are many people who are not here for RP and for whom online games like this one are more some kind of sports. And it doesn't even interfere with you. It's basically two different worlds. But for some myterious reason it's not cool for you that others play this game differently. Think about that. I'm not asking for the story or quests to be removed because I don't like to play them, am I?
If it would be after my liking - there would be a pve server and a pvp server - each with skills made for this playstyle -that this is a mix and pvp "balance" is messing up the experience with any new patch,because something is changing in the skill section, is not really fun to me. Because I am casual player,it takes me an eternity to level up - I am ok with this, but it is really annoying to have to deal with these changes all the time, which would not be necessary, if it would be a pure pve server.
So yes, it affects me, even I am not pvping.
Which (combat-) patch in the past affected your playstyle? For me it's pretty much every single major patch they introduce. You RPers are the people who get affected the least by those changes, if at all. And still you feel the need to take from us.
The PvP/PvE balancing topic is a completely different one btw. Many top PvEers AND PvPer would agree to balance it seperately. Has nothing to do with ACing though. Even in PvE I wanna be able to block the bosses attack whenever I have to.
Also sorry for getting harsh. I'm super agitated by this topic. Especially if people wanna take something from me that doesn't even affect them. Or only very mildly affects them.
I am not taking anything from you, I know that it will not change - ZOS likes it as it is, so it is here to stay - but I can still make a suggestion and argue it from my point of view.
Well, what effected me this time?- the change in the cloak morph for NB - a hit and run tactic class gets a heal instead of a cloak within the shadow abilities - what kind of a change is this actually?- a glass cannon class gets a heal - wtf.
You do realise that the other morph of cloak which was the better option to begin with remained untouched right?
Also, how is the dark cloak change related to AC or whether PVP and PVE should be balanced seperately?
A glass cannon hit and run tactic class does not need a heal ability - it is meant to be vulnerable when exposed - this is just there because people want it balanced - I do not want it balanced, I want a glass cannon class to be a high damage burst damage dealer which is vulnerable when exposed and unable to get away quickly - balance is what is ruining roleplay.
And why in the shadow section and not in siphoning, what is meant for this purpose.
Even a glass cannon most certainly needs some kind of heal. Im sorry but there is more to this game than just jumping into crates and pickpocketing people. No one is ruining ur roleplay, just dont use the damn skill and use the other morph cause its better. Dark cloak was changed cause there was literally no reason to use it over the other morph.
But you know what the funny thing is? That the dark cloak change wasnt even meant for glass cannons to begin with. That heal is supposed to be used by NB tanks cause it scales of hp so its technically useless for glass cannons anw. Feel free to consider this as a small lesson about this game's combat system and how different abilities synergize with different kind of builds that actually want to be somewhat competitive.
But again how is all that related to AC? That was the question, answer to that and stop talking about balance cause it doesnt seem like you know much about it anw.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
In other games such as mmorpgs animation canceling is considered an exploit as it breaks the animation Guildwars 2 had animation canceling and devs there stopped it immediately as it was destroying pvp and dungeons..
Its not legitimate at all just because ESO devs allow it doesn't make it right.. but forcing the whole population to do this is wrong especially when it very much is an exploit in game mechanics.
What happens in GW2 is irrelevant and moot. In ESO required time for skills is the GCD, not the animation.
It does not matter how one tries to spin and twist this, it is factually wrong to say AC is an exploit in ESO. That is the truth that drowns out all those that call this legitimate game mechanic a bug or an exploit.Edited by idk on May 29, 2018 4:41PM2 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭they could always bridge the gap by making light attacks a toggle that fires off like inferno does every 3-4 seconds. If you can do better than that you can toggle it off for manual control.
So you want the developers to abandon their original vision of an active combat MMORPG (see my post a page or two ago with developer quotes) and introduce boring, passive auto-attacking into the game, like just about every outdated, old-school MMO out there, because some people can’t/won’t learn how to weave. Gotcha.
just seems to me it doesn't have good uptake by the players, seems to push people to enhanced input devices, and is generally a miserable/frantic experience for your fingers. It also doesn't work that well with standard controllers, any form of lag, Templars (lol)..
it has one good thing going for it though. There are more tanks and healers than there would be otherwise since its not required for those roles.
Old Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭they could always bridge the gap by making light attacks a toggle that fires off like inferno does every 3-4 seconds. If you can do better than that you can toggle it off for manual control.
So you want the developers to abandon their original vision of an active combat MMORPG (see my post a page or two ago with developer quotes) and introduce boring, passive auto-attacking into the game, like just about every outdated, old-school MMO out there, because some people can’t/won’t learn how to weave. Gotcha.
just seems to me it doesn't have good uptake by the players, seems to push people to enhanced input devices, and is generally a miserable/frantic experience for your fingers. It also doesn't work that well with standard controllers, any form of lag, Templars (lol)..
it has one good thing going for it though. There are more tanks and healers than there would be otherwise since its not required for those roles.
I use a standard PS4 controller, and I don’t find weaving a miserable/frantic experience. *shrug* I don’t always land every single light attack, sure, but that hasn’t stopped me from doing any content I want to do.
If you’re frantic when you’re trying to weave, you’re doing it wrong. Start slow, and gradually build up speed until it’s second nature. If you’ve ever played guitar before, it’s like learning how to play a solo that you’ve never played before. You don’t have that muscle memory right away, and if you try to play it at full speed with no practice, it’ll be a clunky, frantic, error-filled mess.
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Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭and just to be clear. The point of the animation cancel is to allow fast reaction times to changes in the game. I dont think anyone is against stopping an ability to start a new one.
my only problem is the mechanical advantage this system provides if you have a really good connection and or use programmable inputs and the lag associated with literally doubling the server requests for no good reason.
the global timer(0.8) balances this and the LA weave unbalances it since not everyone can do this reliably even if they wanted to and practiced it.
even worse is that it is possible because of the sequential way requests work that you get the "wall of abilities" on you before you get a chance to defend yourself.
its just a bad system.
Old Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Animation canceling takes skills, so generally, good players like it. Good players also seem to be smarter than average, so they also understand what would happen to combat if you werent able to react in a dynamic fashion to changing situations.
Part of me thinks they should remove the ability to block/swap cancel for a day, so people would actually get to feel how bad the game would play if they were removed.
Conversely, bad players tend to whine about it. That might be an over-generalization, but it is mostly true based on my experience in this game.
Also, weaving is not animation canceling.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭and just to be clear. The point of the animation cancel is to allow fast reaction times to changes in the game. I dont think anyone is against stopping an ability to start a new one.
my only problem is the mechanical advantage this system provides if you have a really good connection and or use programmable inputs and the lag associated with literally doubling the server requests for no good reason.
the global timer(0.8) balances this and the LA weave unbalances it since not everyone can do this reliably even if they wanted to and practiced it.
even worse is that it is possible because of the sequential way requests work that you get the "wall of abilities" on you before you get a chance to defend yourself.
its just a bad system.
In every MMORPG there is a disadvantage to having lag. In every game there is a refinement of combat technique that some master and others do not put forth the effort for their own reasons.
Games should not be simplified into oblivion to accommodate lag. Besides, it has been explained that there is no content in this game that requires AC.0 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭in my experience people will defend an unfair advantage as long as they themselves benefit from it and have no regard on whether its destructive or not.
its a great game but i feel this part of it detracts greatly from it. It doesn't affect me much since i only play tanks and healers but i see it turning people away routinely because it just isn't that good of a system.
what good is intelligence without wisdom?
Old Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard2 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭in my experience people will defend an unfair advantage as long as they themselves benefit from it and have no regard on whether its destructive or not.
its a great game but i feel this part of it detracts greatly from it. It doesn't affect me much since i only play tanks and healers but i see it turning people away routinely because it just isn't that good of a system.
what good is intelligence without wisdom?
How is it an unfair advantage if everyone has access to it? Yes, it takes skill, but any game takes skill to master at the highest level. If you arent playing at the highest level, then why do you care? You dont need to AC to complete any content in this game. If you are playing at the highest level, well, welcome to real life. People that are better than you are going to beat you more times than not.1 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »in my experience people will defend an unfair advantage as long as they themselves benefit from it and have no regard on whether its destructive or not.
its a great game but i feel this part of it detracts greatly from it. It doesn't affect me much since i only play tanks and healers but i see it turning people away routinely because it just isn't that good of a system.
what good is intelligence without wisdom?
How is it an unfair advantage if everyone has access to it? Yes, it takes skill, but any game takes skill to master at the highest level. If you arent playing at the highest level, then why do you care? You dont need to AC to complete any content in this game. If you are playing at the highest level, well, welcome to real life. People that are better than you are going to beat you more times than not.
Stop, just stop, they are not going to get it. No matter what is said, they will not get it. It's like arguing with a doorknob. The vast majority of folks understand what's going on, those that don't are not going to, no matter what is said or shown to them. They'd rather whine about something than understand THEIR perceived "problem."
quick edit:
I'm on your side here, my post really didn't make that very clear.Edited by BuddyAces on May 29, 2018 8:17PMThey nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd3 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »in my experience people will defend an unfair advantage as long as they themselves benefit from it and have no regard on whether its destructive or not.
its a great game but i feel this part of it detracts greatly from it. It doesn't affect me much since i only play tanks and healers but i see it turning people away routinely because it just isn't that good of a system.
what good is intelligence without wisdom?
How is it an unfair advantage if everyone has access to it? Yes, it takes skill, but any game takes skill to master at the highest level. If you arent playing at the highest level, then why do you care? You dont need to AC to complete any content in this game. If you are playing at the highest level, well, welcome to real life. People that are better than you are going to beat you more times than not.
Stop, just stop, they are not going to get it. No matter what is said, they will not get it. It's like arguing with a doorknob. The vast majority of folks understand what's going on, those that don't are not going to, no matter what is said or shown to them. They'd rather whine about something than understand THEIR perceived "problem."
quick edit:
I'm on your side here, my post really didn't make that very clear.
Ha! All good. Sometimes, I just cant help myself. Been down this particular rabbit hole a few times before...0 -
Raraaku✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »in my experience people will defend an unfair advantage as long as they themselves benefit from it and have no regard on whether its destructive or not.
its a great game but i feel this part of it detracts greatly from it. It doesn't affect me much since i only play tanks and healers but i see it turning people away routinely because it just isn't that good of a system.
what good is intelligence without wisdom?
How is it an unfair advantage if everyone has access to it? Yes, it takes skill, but any game takes skill to master at the highest level. If you arent playing at the highest level, then why do you care? You dont need to AC to complete any content in this game. If you are playing at the highest level, well, welcome to real life. People that are better than you are going to beat you more times than not.
Stop, just stop, they are not going to get it. No matter what is said, they will not get it. It's like arguing with a doorknob. The vast majority of folks understand what's going on, those that don't are not going to, no matter what is said or shown to them. They'd rather whine about something than understand THEIR perceived "problem."
quick edit:
I'm on your side here, my post really didn't make that very clear.
Isn't that like... 97.3333% of all arguments that take place on the internet?
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TanksKarsaak gro-Ursa: DC || Orc || Stamina Dragonknight || Tank || Level: CP 445
Sir Leopold Stotch: DC || Breton || Magicka Templar || Tank || Level: 445
Protects-Squishy-Ones: EP || Argonian || Magicka Sorcerer || Tank/CC || Level: CP 445
Björn Shadow-Walker: EP || Nord || Stamina Nightblade || Tank || Level: 15
Tiberius Valerion: AD || Imperial || Stamina Warden || Tank || Level: 15
Damage DealersMorrigan Ravyn-Cloak: AD || Altmer || Magicka Nightblade || DPS || Level: CP 445
Ra'Zahkara: AD || Khajiit || Stamina Dragonknight || DPS || Level: CP 445
Ezra al-Khazir: DC || Redguard || Stamina Templar || DPS || Level: 40
Erryndril Telvaux: EP || Dunmer || Magicka Dragonknight || DPS || Level: 25
Uzara gra-Khalari: DC || Orc || Stamina Nightblade || DPS [2H/DW] || Level: 15
Solomon Motierre: DC || Breton || Magicka Sorcerer || DPS || Level: 20
Ragnar the Wulf: EP || Nord || Stamina Warden || DPS || Level: 30
Ra'Rahku: AD || Khajiit || Stamina Nightblade || DPS [Bow/Bow] || Level: 15
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Daedalus the Artificer: AD || Altmer || Magicka Templar || Healer || Level: 150 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »in my experience people will defend an unfair advantage as long as they themselves benefit from it and have no regard on whether its destructive or not.
its a great game but i feel this part of it detracts greatly from it. It doesn't affect me much since i only play tanks and healers but i see it turning people away routinely because it just isn't that good of a system.
what good is intelligence without wisdom?
How is it an unfair advantage if everyone has access to it? Yes, it takes skill, but any game takes skill to master at the highest level. If you arent playing at the highest level, then why do you care? You dont need to AC to complete any content in this game. If you are playing at the highest level, well, welcome to real life. People that are better than you are going to beat you more times than not.
Stop, just stop, they are not going to get it. No matter what is said, they will not get it. It's like arguing with a doorknob. The vast majority of folks understand what's going on, those that don't are not going to, no matter what is said or shown to them. They'd rather whine about something than understand THEIR perceived "problem."
quick edit:
I'm on your side here, my post really didn't make that very clear.
Yup. I always ask myself why I bother to respond to these threads, but always remind myself that if I let it slide, there’s a chance that some new player might be deluded by the lies fed to them by people who don’t understand how ESO’s combat system works.
0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭in my experience people will defend an unfair advantage as long as they themselves benefit from it and have no regard on whether its destructive or not.
its a great game but i feel this part of it detracts greatly from it. It doesn't affect me much since i only play tanks and healers but i see it turning people away routinely because it just isn't that good of a system.
what good is intelligence without wisdom?
We have merely stated it is a legitimate part of the game. By definition it is within the rules of game play and therefore considered fare. Stating otherwise does not make it so.
It seems that wisdom is lost on some on this thread being they keep calling AC a bug or exploit or unfair advantage.
0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »in my experience people will defend an unfair advantage as long as they themselves benefit from it and have no regard on whether its destructive or not.
its a great game but i feel this part of it detracts greatly from it. It doesn't affect me much since i only play tanks and healers but i see it turning people away routinely because it just isn't that good of a system.
what good is intelligence without wisdom?
How is it an unfair advantage if everyone has access to it? Yes, it takes skill, but any game takes skill to master at the highest level. If you arent playing at the highest level, then why do you care? You dont need to AC to complete any content in this game. If you are playing at the highest level, well, welcome to real life. People that are better than you are going to beat you more times than not.
Stop, just stop, they are not going to get it. No matter what is said, they will not get it. It's like arguing with a doorknob. The vast majority of folks understand what's going on, those that don't are not going to, no matter what is said or shown to them. They'd rather whine about something than understand THEIR perceived "problem."
quick edit:
I'm on your side here, my post really didn't make that very clear.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »in my experience people will defend an unfair advantage as long as they themselves benefit from it and have no regard on whether its destructive or not.
its a great game but i feel this part of it detracts greatly from it. It doesn't affect me much since i only play tanks and healers but i see it turning people away routinely because it just isn't that good of a system.
what good is intelligence without wisdom?
How is it an unfair advantage if everyone has access to it? Yes, it takes skill, but any game takes skill to master at the highest level. If you arent playing at the highest level, then why do you care? You dont need to AC to complete any content in this game. If you are playing at the highest level, well, welcome to real life. People that are better than you are going to beat you more times than not.
Stop, just stop, they are not going to get it. No matter what is said, they will not get it. It's like arguing with a doorknob. The vast majority of folks understand what's going on, those that don't are not going to, no matter what is said or shown to them. They'd rather whine about something than understand THEIR perceived "problem."
quick edit:
I'm on your side here, my post really didn't make that very clear.
Yup. I always ask myself why I bother to respond to these threads, but always remind myself that if I let it slide, there’s a chance that some new player might be deluded by the lies fed to them by people who don’t understand how ESO’s combat system works.
Yep it is incredibly fatiguing. Ive been fighting this bout for a long time. The problem is. In order to really break it down to understand you have to commit to lengthier posts. And often the explanation get buried in threads and then you have random uneducated players jump in on last page and plop down some priceless jewel likeWell, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
There is nothing wrong with animation cancelling! You do not need to cancel the animations of your skills to deal 30k+ DPS! You cannot bypass the global cooldown with animation cancelling! You do need to cancel animations to dodge roll out of AOE, taunt a boss while blocking, stop casting Jesus Beam to throw out BoL, etc. and the game would be broken without it.
It.
Is.
Not.
A.
Bug.
it originated unintentionally. i.e. it was a bug that became a 'feature' as the devs could not find a way to fix it in a satisfactory fashion.
Honestly, they dont want to be proven wrong or to be enlightend. They want an echoing chamber. These type of threads are the single category threads that bring me the closet to leaving the forums alltogether. Its so utterly exhausting having to constantly repeat myself time and time again, breaking down to the finest detail, the mechancis of which the combat system is built around, only to be ignored because they cant be bothered to read. And when i pose a sinple question giving them a window for a rebuttal, its often met with silence or a complete logical hoolahoop bringing it back to square one disregarding all the imformation presented to them.Edited by exeeter702 on May 29, 2018 9:30PM2 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭it can be very unfair depending on your ping.
keep in mind that the 0.8s global timer allows for a very wide range of connections for normal play. This can wreck that if you can take advantage of it, and not everyone can.
as i've said its a crappy system. If you've mastered it good job, doesn't make it a good system.
if you see no downsides to this system you might be biased because you use it or can make use of it.
Old Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard1