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Cancel animation canceling
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Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Did a dev say that? I see the auto attack arguement a lot, but I haven't been able to find a source.
Anyone who understands how the game is designed and has experience with mmos understands this. Its not something that needs confirmation. Its plain as day. This game obeys a great deal of mmo conventions, its not a mystery.
You can't assume, SWtOR doesn't have auto attacks, neither does Tera, Skyforge, or GW2. This seems more like a byproduct of the priority system. If they wanted auto attacks, it would have been easy enough to have that happen.
I was asking a legitimate question, and I sense a fair amount of anger in your reply, but I'm not sure why. I would like an answer to this question I've been trying to answer since I started playing, and I thought someone would have the answer.
They didn’t want auto attacks, in the sense that they did not want the game to do things for players; they wanted ALL combat to be active, and for players to have control over when ALL their abilities fire (be they skills, bashes, light attacks, etc).
https://segmentnext.com/2013/12/23/many-details-elder-scrolls-online-pvp-revealed-developer/Someone asked Wheeler if the combat in the game was going to be more akin to Skyrim or World of Warcraft (i.e whether you would be aiming your autoattacks and spells or just click on a target and the computer attacks it until it dies). Brian responded by saying that the combat would be staying true to the Elder Scrolls franchise:
“Combat is very Elder Scrollsey (insert trademark here). It’s mouse driven (on the PC/Mac) and you aim a reticule on top of the target you want to hit. Clicking the left mouse button will attack and right click will block. There is no “auto-attack” and combat is very rewarding because of that because it keeps you immersed in the world and actively fighting your target just like Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind and all the Elder Scrolls games.”
http://tamrieljournal.com/zenimax-reddit-ama-summary/Q: Hi, I’m coming to ESO from another MMO with auto-attacks and global cooldowns. With the ESO combat system what percentage of DPS/DD combat is using abilities vs. light/heavy attacks (clicking attacks)? During the beta weekends I found myself opening with abilities and then using clicking attacks during the lulls while my stamina/magicka regenerated enough to use the next ability. Would you consider this “typical play” or am I not using the system to its fullest?
Nick Konkle: Honestly, it depends on your build. It is perfectly common to build around the slotted abilities, and use weapon attacks during downtime.
There are also builds (for example, a sorcerer dual-wield critical surge build) where you’d want to use your light and heavy attacks as often as possible. I’d encourage you to try different things out and figure out what works best for you!
The developers clearly understand what auto attacks are, and while they’ve never come right out and said it, light/heavy attacks very obviously fulfil the same purpose. Light and heavy attacks effectively function LIKE traditional MMO auto attacks, in the sense that they provide a small amount of ranged or melee damage that is not tied to the GCD. The difference here is that WE CONTROL the timing of these attacks. They don’t fire automatically. Don’t want to weave? Listen to Nick Konkle, then, and do what works best for you. No one is forcing you to do anything. That being said, if you’re playing a damage dealer in endgame content, you should do what you can to optimize your damage (i.e. you should learn how to weave).2 -
MarkusLiberty✭✭✭✭✭Dont get why they haven't fixed this bug yet. It's one of the things that keeps me from wanting to get invovled with hardcore PVP/PVE*Special Snowflake*0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MarkusLiberty wrote: »Dont get why they haven't fixed this bug yet. It's one of the things that keeps me from wanting to get invovled with hardcore PVP/PVE
It’s not a bug, and you don’t have to cancel animations to deal 30k DPS. 30k DPS is enough for all content in the game.
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Uviryth✭✭✭✭✭
Since the nerf theyre not. ZOS intentionally pushes the game towards light attacks for whatever reason.
Use a heavy attack build. I've said this, what, 2 times now? 3? If you cannot get the hang of light attack weaving / animation cancelling, swap to a build that uses a slower rotation. Swap to a heavy attack build. Stamina DK & Magicka Pet Sorc are both good for heavy attack builds.
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Since the nerf theyre not. ZOS intentionally pushes the game towards light attacks for whatever reason.
Use a heavy attack build. I've said this, what, 2 times now? 3? If you cannot get the hang of light attack weaving / animation cancelling, swap to a build that uses a slower rotation. Swap to a heavy attack build. Stamina DK & Magicka Pet Sorc are both good for heavy attack builds.
You can still hit 30k DPS easily with a HA build even now. Check out @Masel92 videos if you don’t believe it.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭
No it isn't. AC is an exploit that some players are good at and some are not. The worst part of AC is that it has made ESO into a simple numbers game, so instead of simply having fun you are checking individual dps to make sure that a member of the group isn't inadvertently nerfing your chance of epic lootz. AC needs to be removed completely but i doubt that ZOS will do it as they have a pretty poor track record of fixing stuff that has been around for awhile.
I personally cannot compete with those that are good at AC as i am 57 years old and have arthritis in my hands. Two a second clicks play havoc with my finger joints. This means that I am unable to take part in most veteran content or PvP. When you consider that DAoC is still held up today as the best PvP experience that has ever been designed in an MMO I find it remarkable that nobody else has managed to copy it correctly but here is a hint, it didn't have AC, it did have /face commands that kept you facing your opponent and it did have collision detection, all of which put everyone on a level playing field. There is a reason it is still the best MMO PvP around.
Like the other feller said, try a heavy attack build. Stamina DK, stamina sorc, stamina nightblade (yes I know someone who does great numbers using a heavy attack nb rotation), and magicka sorc can all perform the necessary DPS for what you want to do. If you play a different class than I have listed then sit at a dummy and figure out a heavy attack rotation. Stop whining to whine.They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd0 -
MaleAmazon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since the nerf theyre not. ZOS intentionally pushes the game towards light attacks for whatever reason.
ZOS wants it to be worthwhile to use light attacks, since light attacks are in the game. Heavy attacks are for resource restore, but a good heavy attack build does tremendous damage as well. ZOS has stated this and I can only imagine them shaking their heads if they read threads like these........posts and responses......
I´d like a response to this: go back and read what I wrote in post #241, as well as what others have written. What is so hard to understand? I don´t mean this as an insult, really - I mean it literally. What is so hard to understand?
This has nothing to do with people being "old", this is NOT a bug, it is hardly an exploit. It does not break any rules, it does not allow you to do more actions than are programmed into the game. It is a side effect of having animations in the game look good while keeping combat responding to clicks. The fact that you can take advantage of this is no more an exploit than the fact that you can gain LOS by jumping.
You can literally do enough DPS in this game to clear all content by clicking the left mouse button over and over again. If this, for some legitimate or idiotic reason is impossible, you can do enough DPS to clear all content in the game by taping down your left mouse button. If this, indeed, is too hard, find a friend to do it for you. What you seem to want for your "entertainment" is to do veteran trials with the top players guilds, without actually having to press any buttons on your computer or its accessories.
No, you can´t have that.Edited by MaleAmazon on May 29, 2018 12:17PM2 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MaleAmazon wrote: »Since the nerf theyre not. ZOS intentionally pushes the game towards light attacks for whatever reason.
ZOS wants it to be worthwhile to use light attacks, since light attacks are in the game. Heavy attacks are for resource restore, but a good heavy attack build does tremendous damage as well. ZOS has stated this and I can only imagine them shaking their heads if they read threads like these........posts and responses......
I´d like a response to this: go back and read what I wrote in post #241, as well as what others have written. What is so hard to understand? I don´t mean this as an insult, really - I mean it literally. What is so hard to understand?
This has nothing to do with people being "old", this is NOT a bug, it is hardly an exploit. It does not break any rules, it does not allow you to do more actions than are programmed into the game. It is a side effect of having animations in the game look good while keeping combat responding to clicks. The fact that you can take advantage of this is no more an exploit than the fact that you can gain LOS by jumping.
You can literally do enough DPS in this game to clear all content by clicking the left mouse button over and over again. If this, for some legitimate or idiotic reason is impossible, you can do enough DPS to clear all content in the game by taping down your left mouse button. If this, indeed, is too hard, find a friend to do it for you. What you seem to want for your "entertainment" is to do veteran trials with the top players guilds, without actually having to press any buttons on your computer or its accessories.
No, you can´t have that.
This is the crux of the issue. People assume that they should not have to practice, because it is “just a game.” They also assume that in order to complete veteran end-game content, they need to do the same amount of DPS that competitive end-game veteran trial damage dealers do (without understanding that these players likely represent less than 1% of the player base, and that you do not have to be at the top of the leaderboard to complete a veteran trial). 20-25k DPS is more than sufficient for any veteran dungeon, and can easily be achieved without animation cancelling. 30k+ DPS is sufficient for any veteran trial (including notoriously difficult trials like vMoL), and can be achieved with no/minimal animation cancelling, heavy attacks, AND sloppy execution of a rotation (as I demonstrated in the video I posted).
If you’re getting kicked from content for doing 10-15k DPS or less, the issue is NOT your inability/refusal to animation cancel; it’s some combination of your gear, your rotation, and your ability to sustain your rotation. Stop blaming animation cancelling.
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nnargun✭✭✭✭Everyone wants everything but only a small fraction of people is willing to put the necessary effort in. Shame on you. How about less typing on the forums and more practicing on target dummy? Works wonders.
You share a mentality with people who pay others to clear content for them. Never got what's so exciting about wearing an item or a title you haven't earned with effort. It's meaningless.
Btw we are talking about a simple left click before each skill. Don't you feel ridiculous for being so upset about something so easy? A few hours with our friend the target dummy and it becomes second nature. But that's asking too much, hm?
Sorry to everyone who is hindered by disabilities. That actually sucks.[PC EU][GERMAN][ENGLISH][730~ CP]
Flawless Conquerer - vHoF HM - vAS+1 - vMoL - vCR
the Kuhn - Dunmer - MagNB
Samjuel-EL - Orc - StamNB
Son Hala - Altmer - MagSorc
Draxyl - Argonian - Warden1 -
resdayn00✭✭✭Without reading 10 pages of comments (duh), just the title made multiple questions pop in my mind:
What would the max possible dps be without animation cancelling?
Would it still be possible to complete vet dungeon speedruns? (Maybe)
Would it still be possible to complete vet trials? (Questionable - speedruns definitely not)
How would it affect survivability? (Healer skills, casting harness magicka, etc)
PC EU - Ebonheart Pact
Resdayn Indoril, Dunmer Magicka Nightblade - Main
Pactum Dunmeri | Ard Feainn | Aetherius Art | Kley Guild
Achievement points: 26k+0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wonder how many other players won't even bother pvping because we can't compete with these rediculous deviencies
You actually don’t need to be that good at it to PvP, due to a latency of 270-350 from playing from Asia, and jsut because I don’t care to set up my keybinds to be ultra competitive with ani cancels, I consider myself to be fairly awful at it and do just fine in PvP. The only ac I do is basic like reverse slice cancelling but it’s more like light attack weaving, I rarely bother with bash cancelling everything like the super competitive guys do (also my mouse doesn’t have many buttons and it’s awkward) Any other ac that occurs is jsut by accident. Way more important than AC is light attack weaving and knowing your rotation, that is enough to get you through any PvE content and to be highly competitive in PvP. You’d run into issues with (I’m guessing) less than 10% of the PvP player base if you don’t really bother with AC. Most people don’t do it that well or at all.
Hm, that is about my latency currently - maybe I will give it another try then. Well, not really to pvp though, but I want to explore cyrrodil and the imperial city.
Absolutely, PvP has the steepest learning curve in this game hands down. It’s punishing and you really can’t mind the frustration of dying ALOT for A LONG time. Give it a few months if you have someone really good teaching you and a year if you’re learning on your own, to start getting decent.
On the positive side, it might be an interesting stealth challenge - if I do not run into an a...... of my own faction killing me.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No it isn't. AC is an exploit that some players are good at and some are not. The worst part of AC is that it has made ESO into a simple numbers game, so instead of simply having fun you are checking individual dps to make sure that a member of the group isn't inadvertently nerfing your chance of epic lootz. AC needs to be removed completely but i doubt that ZOS will do it as they have a pretty poor track record of fixing stuff that has been around for awhile.
I personally cannot compete with those that are good at AC as i am 57 years old and have arthritis in my hands. Two a second clicks play havoc with my finger joints. This means that I am unable to take part in most veteran content or PvP. When you consider that DAoC is still held up today as the best PvP experience that has ever been designed in an MMO I find it remarkable that nobody else has managed to copy it correctly but here is a hint, it didn't have AC, it did have /face commands that kept you facing your opponent and it did have collision detection, all of which put everyone on a level playing field. There is a reason it is still the best MMO PvP around.
Use a heavy attack build. I've said this, what, 2 times now? 3? If you cannot get the hang of light attack weaving / animation cancelling, swap to a build that uses a slower rotation. Swap to a heavy attack build. Stamina DK & Magicka Pet Sorc are both good for heavy attack builds.
And, again, as has been said many times in the thread, and I predict will be reiterated to death: animation cancelling is not an exploit. Get that out of your heads, people!
Zenimax implemented the priority system for a reason. They wanted ESO's combat tot be active, reactive, and responsive. They wanted you to have to actively block & dodge incoming attacks. They wanted you to actively light attack as a basic attack. They wanted youe to actively heavy attack to gain resources.
This sort of active combat system, where you react to changing combat conditions, can only be successful if combat is responsive. Combat cannot be responsive when you cannot block an incoming attack when necessary because you're sitting in the middle of the recovery portion of an animation. You must be able to throw up block immediately, else you risk getting one-shot by a boss, or your risk being unable to react to an unpredictable player.
Removing the priority system would mean that you could not immediately block an incoming attack. It would mean that players would be stuck within the entire animation for every action. It would make the combat system slow, monotonous, and overall unresponsive.
And about ESO becoming a numbers game. It's an MMO. All MMO's devolve into a numbers game at end game. You'll find the same in any MMO.
This is really well meant and nice of you - but he said he has arthritis, which basically means joints hurt pretty quickly and even a slower rotation is a real pain for him, if it has to be repeated over and over again.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everyone wants everything but only a small fraction of people is willing to put the necessary effort in. Shame on you. How about less typing on the forums and more practicing on target dummy? Works wonders.
You share a mentality with people who pay others to clear content for them. Never got what's so exciting about wearing an item or a title you haven't earned with effort. It's meaningless.
Btw we are talking about a simple left click before each skill. Don't you feel ridiculous for being so upset about something so easy? A few hours with our friend the target dummy and it becomes second nature. But that's asking too much, hm?
Sorry to everyone who is hindered by disabilities. That actually sucks.
Have you even read some of the arguments?0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Lysette
While I get that an unfortunate health condition is a limiting factor (just as reaction time generally) and indeed nothing to joke about, I find that requesting a drastic game change just because of that a bit too far fetched. If you homogenize the game too much it simply becomes boring. There really is no good solution to satisfy both ends on this spectrum. Would you want to play a game where pressing 2 or 3 buttons results in the maximum output? I know I wouldn't.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Lysette
While I get that an unfortunate health condition is a limiting factor (just as reaction time generally) and indeed nothing to joke about, I find that requesting a drastic game change just because of that a bit too far fetched. If you homogenize the game too much it simply becomes boring. There really is no good solution to satisfy both ends on this spectrum. Would you want to play a game where pressing 2 or 3 buttons results in the maximum output? I know I wouldn't.
I wouldn't as well - I just know people with arthritis and have seen what a pain that can be for them to do anything really. He can try those suggestions of course and eventually it is better than expected, but I really doubt it. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything about it, but it just came to mind in that moment, what those people experience, which I know with this condition.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Lysette
While I get that an unfortunate health condition is a limiting factor (just as reaction time generally) and indeed nothing to joke about, I find that requesting a drastic game change just because of that a bit too far fetched. If you homogenize the game too much it simply becomes boring. There really is no good solution to satisfy both ends on this spectrum. Would you want to play a game where pressing 2 or 3 buttons results in the maximum output? I know I wouldn't.
I wouldn't as well - I just know people with arthritis and have seen what a pain that can be for them to do anything really. He can try those suggestions of course and eventually it is better than expected, but I really doubt it. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything about it, but it just came to mind in that moment, what those people experience, which I know with this condition.
I agree playing any game that demands a certain amount of dexterity is probably really really hard with that, and anyone suffering from this has my full sympathy. I just think that removing AC or weaving (which are two different things) wouldn't solve anything, the DPS gap would still remain substantial (if you cannot do a HA rotation at the moment).Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭These threads never stop popping up about Animation Canceling. We animation cancel every time we do a dungeon or fight some mobs or duel or PVP. Constantly. Imagine this game without the ability to do anything until that ability you just cast had to complete it's animation. Whoa.....would that suck.
Let's see: Light attack, wait for it....Oh now I can lay down Wall of Elements, wait for it....now I can do my Heavy Attack, wait for it....now I can block ...oh, no, I couldn't block. I'm dead.
Get over it people. It isn't a bug, it isn't an exploit.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Lysette
While I get that an unfortunate health condition is a limiting factor (just as reaction time generally) and indeed nothing to joke about, I find that requesting a drastic game change just because of that a bit too far fetched. If you homogenize the game too much it simply becomes boring. There really is no good solution to satisfy both ends on this spectrum. Would you want to play a game where pressing 2 or 3 buttons results in the maximum output? I know I wouldn't.
I wouldn't as well - I just know people with arthritis and have seen what a pain that can be for them to do anything really. He can try those suggestions of course and eventually it is better than expected, but I really doubt it. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything about it, but it just came to mind in that moment, what those people experience, which I know with this condition.
I agree playing any game that demands a certain amount of dexterity is probably really really hard with that, and anyone suffering from this has my full sympathy. I just think that removing AC or weaving (which are two different things) wouldn't solve anything, the DPS gap would still remain substantial (if you cannot do a HA rotation at the moment).
I am a role player, Feanor, I am perfectly happy with a decent character, which can do the content more or less - better more than less though - I do not even want a maxed out character, because it is more fun to play with one, who is using average blue gear and gets along just fine anyway - kind of a jack of all trades, good in nothing really, but can do all or most things. I have more fun like this, so DPS is not really something I focus on,but to have fun with somewhat weird but interesting builds.
That is as well why I wait for an animation to complete before I start the next move - I have less dps like it, but it looks good and if I can stand my ground anyway, I can still be proud of it. Especially if it is a build, which is not the typical minmax setup.Edited by Lysette on May 29, 2018 2:20PM1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Lysette
While I get that an unfortunate health condition is a limiting factor (just as reaction time generally) and indeed nothing to joke about, I find that requesting a drastic game change just because of that a bit too far fetched. If you homogenize the game too much it simply becomes boring. There really is no good solution to satisfy both ends on this spectrum. Would you want to play a game where pressing 2 or 3 buttons results in the maximum output? I know I wouldn't.
I wouldn't as well - I just know people with arthritis and have seen what a pain that can be for them to do anything really. He can try those suggestions of course and eventually it is better than expected, but I really doubt it. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything about it, but it just came to mind in that moment, what those people experience, which I know with this condition.
I agree playing any game that demands a certain amount of dexterity is probably really really hard with that, and anyone suffering from this has my full sympathy. I just think that removing AC or weaving (which are two different things) wouldn't solve anything, the DPS gap would still remain substantial (if you cannot do a HA rotation at the moment).
I am a role player, Feanor, I am perfectly happy with a decent character, which can do the content more or less - better more than less though - I do not even want a maxed out character, because it is more fun to play with one, who is using average blue gear and gets along just fine anyway - kind of a jack of all trades, good in nothing really, but can do all or most things. I have more fun like this, so DPS is not really something I focus on,but to have fun with somewhat weird but interesting builds.
That's all fine - but if you focus on RP (which is of course legit in a MMORPG) and just generally having fun with weird builds (great attitude btw) I don't see how AC and weaving would affect you. You notice the impact of it when it comes to squeezing out the last drops of DPS. IT#s a common misconception you need to do it.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
nnargun✭✭✭✭Everyone wants everything but only a small fraction of people is willing to put the necessary effort in. Shame on you. How about less typing on the forums and more practicing on target dummy? Works wonders.
You share a mentality with people who pay others to clear content for them. Never got what's so exciting about wearing an item or a title you haven't earned with effort. It's meaningless.
Btw we are talking about a simple left click before each skill. Don't you feel ridiculous for being so upset about something so easy? A few hours with our friend the target dummy and it becomes second nature. But that's asking too much, hm?
Sorry to everyone who is hindered by disabilities. That actually sucks.
Have you even read some of the arguments?
You mean the arguments about sound and visuals getting out of control when ACing? Or the RP arguments? Yeah, I've read some of them.
Looks like excuses for being lazy to me.
Then you simply don't understand what roleplay means - where not the players abilities are in the forground,but a characters abilities.That twitchy combat in ESO is focussing on hand-eye coordination and quick fingers -sounds like real world skills to me -and that is wrong in a role playing game -and ESO is still an MMORPG - or it should be, but is not in pvp combat.
Again. How the hell does AC ruin any RPing for you? Please explain that to me. You are certainly not forced to do it for any of the story related content.
You just hate the competetive aspect of this game. You want the game to be suited 100% for you and your RP desire and anything besides that is just bugs and exploits and garbage. But there is not only you. There are many people who are not here for RP and for whom online games like this one are more some kind of sports. And it doesn't even interfere with you. It's basically two different worlds. But for some myterious reason it's not cool for you that others play this game differently. Think about that. I'm not asking for the story or quests to be removed because I don't like to play them, am I?Edited by nnargun on May 29, 2018 2:25PM[PC EU][GERMAN][ENGLISH][730~ CP]
Flawless Conquerer - vHoF HM - vAS+1 - vMoL - vCR
the Kuhn - Dunmer - MagNB
Samjuel-EL - Orc - StamNB
Son Hala - Altmer - MagSorc
Draxyl - Argonian - Warden1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Lysette
While I get that an unfortunate health condition is a limiting factor (just as reaction time generally) and indeed nothing to joke about, I find that requesting a drastic game change just because of that a bit too far fetched. If you homogenize the game too much it simply becomes boring. There really is no good solution to satisfy both ends on this spectrum. Would you want to play a game where pressing 2 or 3 buttons results in the maximum output? I know I wouldn't.
I wouldn't as well - I just know people with arthritis and have seen what a pain that can be for them to do anything really. He can try those suggestions of course and eventually it is better than expected, but I really doubt it. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything about it, but it just came to mind in that moment, what those people experience, which I know with this condition.
I agree playing any game that demands a certain amount of dexterity is probably really really hard with that, and anyone suffering from this has my full sympathy. I just think that removing AC or weaving (which are two different things) wouldn't solve anything, the DPS gap would still remain substantial (if you cannot do a HA rotation at the moment).
I am a role player, Feanor, I am perfectly happy with a decent character, which can do the content more or less - better more than less though - I do not even want a maxed out character, because it is more fun to play with one, who is using average blue gear and gets along just fine anyway - kind of a jack of all trades, good in nothing really, but can do all or most things. I have more fun like this, so DPS is not really something I focus on,but to have fun with somewhat weird but interesting builds.
That's all fine - but if you focus on RP (which is of course legit in a MMORPG) and just generally having fun with weird builds (great attitude btw) I don't see how AC and weaving would affect you. You notice the impact of it when it comes to squeezing out the last drops of DPS. IT#s a common misconception you need to do it.
I thought it would eventually be a more interesting combat system, if there would be a real trade-off between an offensive action and a defensive action,where there is risk involved in an offensive action, because during the execution of that action there would be no defensive action possible - people are against it, I see that now - I just thought, it would make it more interesting and fix the issue with AC. I am not using it anyway, because I want to see the animation properly.1 -
Eirella✭✭✭✭✭The combat system is the best thing about ESO. I would hate to see it changed. That would instantly kill off any remaining interest I have in this game.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Lysette
While I get that an unfortunate health condition is a limiting factor (just as reaction time generally) and indeed nothing to joke about, I find that requesting a drastic game change just because of that a bit too far fetched. If you homogenize the game too much it simply becomes boring. There really is no good solution to satisfy both ends on this spectrum. Would you want to play a game where pressing 2 or 3 buttons results in the maximum output? I know I wouldn't.
I wouldn't as well - I just know people with arthritis and have seen what a pain that can be for them to do anything really. He can try those suggestions of course and eventually it is better than expected, but I really doubt it. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything about it, but it just came to mind in that moment, what those people experience, which I know with this condition.
I agree playing any game that demands a certain amount of dexterity is probably really really hard with that, and anyone suffering from this has my full sympathy. I just think that removing AC or weaving (which are two different things) wouldn't solve anything, the DPS gap would still remain substantial (if you cannot do a HA rotation at the moment).
I am a role player, Feanor, I am perfectly happy with a decent character, which can do the content more or less - better more than less though - I do not even want a maxed out character, because it is more fun to play with one, who is using average blue gear and gets along just fine anyway - kind of a jack of all trades, good in nothing really, but can do all or most things. I have more fun like this, so DPS is not really something I focus on,but to have fun with somewhat weird but interesting builds.
That's all fine - but if you focus on RP (which is of course legit in a MMORPG) and just generally having fun with weird builds (great attitude btw) I don't see how AC and weaving would affect you. You notice the impact of it when it comes to squeezing out the last drops of DPS. IT#s a common misconception you need to do it.
I thought it would eventually be a more interesting combat system, if there would be a real trade-off between an offensive action and a defensive action,where there is risk involved in an offensive action, because during the execution of that action there would be no defensive action possible - people are against it, I see that now - I just thought, it would make it more interesting and fix the issue with AC. I am not using it anyway, because I want to see the animation properly.
The tradeoff is there. It's the global cooldown (GCD). If you use an ability you can't use another ability for another second. Neither AC nor weaving can change something on that. A simple example is that you start to gap close and get CCed in the process - you can't use another defensive skill until the GCD runs out, which leaves an attack window for your opponent. Add in the reaction time. 0.7 to 1 seconds of free attack window doesn't sound much, but with decent players that can be equivalent of 20 k damage (CC + LA + Ultimate for example).Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everyone wants everything but only a small fraction of people is willing to put the necessary effort in. Shame on you. How about less typing on the forums and more practicing on target dummy? Works wonders.
You share a mentality with people who pay others to clear content for them. Never got what's so exciting about wearing an item or a title you haven't earned with effort. It's meaningless.
Btw we are talking about a simple left click before each skill. Don't you feel ridiculous for being so upset about something so easy? A few hours with our friend the target dummy and it becomes second nature. But that's asking too much, hm?
Sorry to everyone who is hindered by disabilities. That actually sucks.
Have you even read some of the arguments?
You mean the arguments about sound and visuals getting out of control when ACing? Or the RP arguments? Yeah, I've read some of them.
Looks like excuses for being lazy to me.
Then you simply don't understand what roleplay means - where not the players abilities are in the forground,but a characters abilities.That twitchy combat in ESO is focussing on hand-eye coordination and quick fingers -sounds like real world skills to me -and that is wrong in a role playing game -and ESO is still an MMORPG - or it should be, but is not in pvp combat.
Again. How the hell does AC ruin any RPing for you? Please explain that to me. You are certainly not forced to do it for any of the story related content.
You just hate the competetive aspect of this game. You want the game to be suited 100% for you and your RP desire and anything besides that is just bugs and exploits and garbage. But there is not only you. There are many people who are not here for RP and for whom online games like this one are more some kind of sports. And it doesn't even interfere with you. It's basically two different worlds. But for some myterious reason it's not cool for you that others play this game differently. Think about that. I'm not asking for the story or quests to be removed because I don't like to play them, am I?
If it would be after my liking - there would be a pve server and a pvp server - each with skills made for this playstyle -that this is a mix and pvp "balance" is messing up the experience with any new patch,because something is changing in the skill section, is not really fun to me. Because I am casual player,it takes me an eternity to level up - I am ok with this, but it is really annoying to have to deal with these changes all the time, which would not be necessary, if it would be a pure pve server.
So yes, it affects me, even I am not pvping.0 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭they could always bridge the gap by making light attacks a toggle that fires off like inferno does every 3-4 seconds. If you can do better than that you can toggle it off for manual control.
Old Rungar always gives what's needed.
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everyone wants everything but only a small fraction of people is willing to put the necessary effort in. Shame on you. How about less typing on the forums and more practicing on target dummy? Works wonders.
You share a mentality with people who pay others to clear content for them. Never got what's so exciting about wearing an item or a title you haven't earned with effort. It's meaningless.
Btw we are talking about a simple left click before each skill. Don't you feel ridiculous for being so upset about something so easy? A few hours with our friend the target dummy and it becomes second nature. But that's asking too much, hm?
Sorry to everyone who is hindered by disabilities. That actually sucks.
Have you even read some of the arguments?
You mean the arguments about sound and visuals getting out of control when ACing? Or the RP arguments? Yeah, I've read some of them.
Looks like excuses for being lazy to me.
Then you simply don't understand what roleplay means - where not the players abilities are in the forground,but a characters abilities.That twitchy combat in ESO is focussing on hand-eye coordination and quick fingers -sounds like real world skills to me -and that is wrong in a role playing game -and ESO is still an MMORPG - or it should be, but is not in pvp combat.
Again. How the hell does AC ruin any RPing for you? Please explain that to me. You are certainly not forced to do it for any of the story related content.
You just hate the competetive aspect of this game. You want the game to be suited 100% for you and your RP desire and anything besides that is just bugs and exploits and garbage. But there is not only you. There are many people who are not here for RP and for whom online games like this one are more some kind of sports. And it doesn't even interfere with you. It's basically two different worlds. But for some myterious reason it's not cool for you that others play this game differently. Think about that. I'm not asking for the story or quests to be removed because I don't like to play them, am I?
If it would be after my liking - there would be a pve server and a pvp server - each with skills made for this playstyle -that this is a mix and pvp "balance" is messing up the experience with any new patch,because something is changing in the skill section, is not really fun to me. Because I am casual player,it takes me an eternity to level up - I am ok with this, but it is really annoying to have to deal with these changes all the time, which would not be necessary, if it would be a pure pve server.
So yes, it affects me, even I am not pvping.
That's a totally different argument and has nothing to do with AC or weaving at all. Besides, ZOS has said time after time they won't do this because they want a coherent experience - it's especially aimed at casuals that shouldn't be bothered with learning again what their skills do in PvE or PvP. And that's actually a legitimate point of view.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everyone wants everything but only a small fraction of people is willing to put the necessary effort in. Shame on you. How about less typing on the forums and more practicing on target dummy? Works wonders.
You share a mentality with people who pay others to clear content for them. Never got what's so exciting about wearing an item or a title you haven't earned with effort. It's meaningless.
Btw we are talking about a simple left click before each skill. Don't you feel ridiculous for being so upset about something so easy? A few hours with our friend the target dummy and it becomes second nature. But that's asking too much, hm?
Sorry to everyone who is hindered by disabilities. That actually sucks.
Have you even read some of the arguments?
You mean the arguments about sound and visuals getting out of control when ACing? Or the RP arguments? Yeah, I've read some of them.
Looks like excuses for being lazy to me.
Then you simply don't understand what roleplay means - where not the players abilities are in the forground,but a characters abilities.That twitchy combat in ESO is focussing on hand-eye coordination and quick fingers -sounds like real world skills to me -and that is wrong in a role playing game -and ESO is still an MMORPG - or it should be, but is not in pvp combat.
Again. How the hell does AC ruin any RPing for you? Please explain that to me. You are certainly not forced to do it for any of the story related content.
You just hate the competetive aspect of this game. You want the game to be suited 100% for you and your RP desire and anything besides that is just bugs and exploits and garbage. But there is not only you. There are many people who are not here for RP and for whom online games like this one are more some kind of sports. And it doesn't even interfere with you. It's basically two different worlds. But for some myterious reason it's not cool for you that others play this game differently. Think about that. I'm not asking for the story or quests to be removed because I don't like to play them, am I?
If it would be after my liking - there would be a pve server and a pvp server - each with skills made for this playstyle -that this is a mix and pvp "balance" is messing up the experience with any new patch,because something is changing in the skill section, is not really fun to me. Because I am casual player,it takes me an eternity to level up - I am ok with this, but it is really annoying to have to deal with these changes all the time, which would not be necessary, if it would be a pure pve server.
So yes, it affects me, even I am not pvping.
That's a totally different argument and has nothing to do with AC or weaving at all. Besides, ZOS has said time after time they won't do this because they want a coherent experience - it's especially aimed at casuals that shouldn't be bothered with learning again what their skills do in PvE or PvP. And that's actually a legitimate point of view.
Of course it is - in the end it is ZOS's game and they can do as they please - and I am free to not like it as it is and complain about it or give my opinion about it. I do not have to like it in total, to play it though. It's Elderscrolls and I am here to experience Tamriel - which has been a dream since I started playing TES:Morrowind - and that part they did really well.1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The argument that one would not have to learn what skills do or how to play when going from PvE to PvP is strange though. As NPCs do not behave like players, there are no criticals from them and they do not penetrate as well - so there is a learning curve there - NPC do as well rather average damage over time, while players do burst damage to kill fast - totally different gameplay -so the argument thatr one would not have to learn a lot when going from one playstyle to the other is wrong.0 -
nnargun✭✭✭✭Everyone wants everything but only a small fraction of people is willing to put the necessary effort in. Shame on you. How about less typing on the forums and more practicing on target dummy? Works wonders.
You share a mentality with people who pay others to clear content for them. Never got what's so exciting about wearing an item or a title you haven't earned with effort. It's meaningless.
Btw we are talking about a simple left click before each skill. Don't you feel ridiculous for being so upset about something so easy? A few hours with our friend the target dummy and it becomes second nature. But that's asking too much, hm?
Sorry to everyone who is hindered by disabilities. That actually sucks.
Have you even read some of the arguments?
You mean the arguments about sound and visuals getting out of control when ACing? Or the RP arguments? Yeah, I've read some of them.
Looks like excuses for being lazy to me.
Then you simply don't understand what roleplay means - where not the players abilities are in the forground,but a characters abilities.That twitchy combat in ESO is focussing on hand-eye coordination and quick fingers -sounds like real world skills to me -and that is wrong in a role playing game -and ESO is still an MMORPG - or it should be, but is not in pvp combat.
Again. How the hell does AC ruin any RPing for you? Please explain that to me. You are certainly not forced to do it for any of the story related content.
You just hate the competetive aspect of this game. You want the game to be suited 100% for you and your RP desire and anything besides that is just bugs and exploits and garbage. But there is not only you. There are many people who are not here for RP and for whom online games like this one are more some kind of sports. And it doesn't even interfere with you. It's basically two different worlds. But for some myterious reason it's not cool for you that others play this game differently. Think about that. I'm not asking for the story or quests to be removed because I don't like to play them, am I?
If it would be after my liking - there would be a pve server and a pvp server - each with skills made for this playstyle -that this is a mix and pvp "balance" is messing up the experience with any new patch,because something is changing in the skill section, is not really fun to me. Because I am casual player,it takes me an eternity to level up - I am ok with this, but it is really annoying to have to deal with these changes all the time, which would not be necessary, if it would be a pure pve server.
So yes, it affects me, even I am not pvping.
Which (combat-) patch in the past affected your playstyle? For me it's pretty much every single major patch they introduce. You RPers are the people who get affected the least by those changes, if at all. And still you feel the need to take from us.
The PvP/PvE balancing topic is a completely different one btw. Many top PvEers AND PvPer would agree to balance it seperately. Has nothing to do with ACing though. Even in PvE I wanna be able to block the bosses attack whenever I have to.
Also sorry for getting harsh. I'm super agitated by this topic. Especially if people wanna take something from me that doesn't even affect them. Or only very mildly affects them.[PC EU][GERMAN][ENGLISH][730~ CP]
Flawless Conquerer - vHoF HM - vAS+1 - vMoL - vCR
the Kuhn - Dunmer - MagNB
Samjuel-EL - Orc - StamNB
Son Hala - Altmer - MagSorc
Draxyl - Argonian - Warden0