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Cancel animation canceling
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exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Learning to do this is like having to cut my grass... This is not fun to me nor is cutting my grass.. I feel like I'm forced to learn this or my options of enjoying this game are limited. I love this game and everything it offers aside from this forced grass cutting.
You do not have to learn how to do it. That is a choice.
But do you know what this does.. It forces people like me to just rally for casual pve content from the Devs over PvP or vet content.. And slowly this will decay the content requesting from PvP or end game elites.
Not correct. Considering AC has been around for more than 4 years it is an empty statement to say it is decaying anything.
Plenty of people have cleared all vet trials without AC. Most that have cleared HM of all trials do not AC except for weaving a light attack and when they are bar swapping anyhow.
Granted, it seems you are a little salty about something, but you have yet to actually provide anything substantial to back up your the generalizations you are making.I totally agree these exploits need to go.. and it would help with the power creep as well..
And it is clearly not an exploit by any stretch of the imagination. Surprised someone tries to claim AC is an exploit when the developers themselves have said it is legit.
Of course its an exploit.. you are breaking the game built in animation to put out more damage in a quicker time.. When you break a game animation why wouldn't it be considered an exploit..
Just because everyone considers it great and needed in the min maxers groups doesn't mean its not an exploit anymore than the xbox dungeon exploits.. both are breaking game mechanics for gains...If you have no reflexes then animation cancelling is not the problem, it's you. because animation cancelling has nothing to do with how good your reflexes are but more about your muscle memory. I can animation cancel without looking at the monitor because muscle memory does all the work. Reflexes are another thing. You could have the best reflexes in the world i don't care but if you don't practice the necessary routine to aid those reflexes you will die simple as that.
AC is what differentiates the bad from the moderate and the good. It is a very special mechanic in many different games for those who want to strive to be above the rest. If everybody was the same it would still not matter because there are always ways good players find to be competitive, then there would not be any excuses for bad players. Then what?
BS so many other mmo's have banned AC as an exploit as it pushes the gamers damage up far beyond what the game was designed to do.. just because its here and allowed doesn't change that its an exploit..
You literally are teaching the games population to exploit to pull more damage in dungeons.. In other mmos you guys would be banned and this "fixed"...
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19431/im-just-glad-this-game-does-not-use-animation-cancel
Half way down that thread someone states Arenanet fixed it.. multiple times.. i'm not a fan of guildwars but at least they fix their issues overwatch fixed Animation canceling as well..
Do you know what “global cool down” means? ESO has one. Look it up, and get back to me on how we’re supposedly able to do damage “far beyond what the game was designed to do.”
Lol there is no getting back. These peoples entire argument is framed around half truths, heresay and a lack of understanding precisely how and why the combat is designed the way it is. Im literally going to author an entire primer that shatters this nonsesne argument and copy paste in everytimg one of these stupid threads pops up. No matter how many times its explained to them, i just visualize the typical fingers in ears "lalalalalalala i cant hear you lalalalala" without any recourse. They are beyond reason or help.Edited by exeeter702 on May 29, 2018 1:36AM4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Learning to do this is like having to cut my grass... This is not fun to me nor is cutting my grass.. I feel like I'm forced to learn this or my options of enjoying this game are limited. I love this game and everything it offers aside from this forced grass cutting.
You do not have to learn how to do it. That is a choice.
But do you know what this does.. It forces people like me to just rally for casual pve content from the Devs over PvP or vet content.. And slowly this will decay the content requesting from PvP or end game elites.
Not correct. Considering AC has been around for more than 4 years it is an empty statement to say it is decaying anything.
Plenty of people have cleared all vet trials without AC. Most that have cleared HM of all trials do not AC except for weaving a light attack and when they are bar swapping anyhow.
Granted, it seems you are a little salty about something, but you have yet to actually provide anything substantial to back up your the generalizations you are making.I totally agree these exploits need to go.. and it would help with the power creep as well..
And it is clearly not an exploit by any stretch of the imagination. Surprised someone tries to claim AC is an exploit when the developers themselves have said it is legit.
Of course its an exploit.. you are breaking the game built in animation to put out more damage in a quicker time.. When you break a game animation why wouldn't it be considered an exploit..
Just because everyone considers it great and needed in the min maxers groups doesn't mean its not an exploit anymore than the xbox dungeon exploits.. both are breaking game mechanics for gains...If you have no reflexes then animation cancelling is not the problem, it's you. because animation cancelling has nothing to do with how good your reflexes are but more about your muscle memory. I can animation cancel without looking at the monitor because muscle memory does all the work. Reflexes are another thing. You could have the best reflexes in the world i don't care but if you don't practice the necessary routine to aid those reflexes you will die simple as that.
AC is what differentiates the bad from the moderate and the good. It is a very special mechanic in many different games for those who want to strive to be above the rest. If everybody was the same it would still not matter because there are always ways good players find to be competitive, then there would not be any excuses for bad players. Then what?
BS so many other mmo's have banned AC as an exploit as it pushes the gamers damage up far beyond what the game was designed to do.. just because its here and allowed doesn't change that its an exploit..
You literally are teaching the games population to exploit to pull more damage in dungeons.. In other mmos you guys would be banned and this "fixed"...
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19431/im-just-glad-this-game-does-not-use-animation-cancel
Half way down that thread someone states Arenanet fixed it.. multiple times.. i'm not a fan of guildwars but at least they fix their issues overwatch fixed Animation canceling as well..
Again you are wrong. You can pretend it is an exploit all you want but when the devs state it is not and one continues to call it an exploit then it seems more like feigning an accusation.
The simple fact that there is a GCD that cannot be bypassed explicitly prevents an exploit.
As for the link, I could care less about GW. It is like trying to talk about WoW in these forums.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.Edited by Lysette on May 29, 2018 1:35AM0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
Fine. Just understand you are wrong, its not a bug and you are in no postion to argue on the subject with a complete lack of insight to the topic at hand. Its not a bug, its not an exploit, its not mandatory and it is in no way shape or form "wrong" And it doesnt effect a sizeable portion of the player base.
Move on.Edited by exeeter702 on May 29, 2018 1:39AM2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
Fine. Just understand you are wrong, its not a bug and you are in no postion to argue on the subject with a complete lack of insight to the topic at hand. Its not a bug, its not an exploit, its not mandatory and it is in no way shape or form "wrong" And it doesnt effect a sizeable portion of the player base.
Move on.
So if it is not mandatory nor necessary - why do you defend it then?1 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
There is nothing wrong with animation cancelling! You do not need to cancel the animations of your skills to deal 30k+ DPS! You cannot bypass the global cooldown with animation cancelling! You do need to cancel animations to dodge roll out of AOE, taunt a boss while blocking, stop casting Jesus Beam to throw out BoL, etc. and the game would be broken without it.
It.
Is.
Not.
A.
Bug.
1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
There is nothing wrong with animation cancelling! You do not need to cancel the animations of your skills to deal 30k+ DPS! You cannot bypass the global cooldown with animation cancelling! You do need to cancel animations to dodge roll out of AOE, taunt a boss while blocking, stop casting Jesus Beam to throw out BoL, etc. and the game would be broken without it.
It.
Is.
Not.
A.
Bug.
I disagree, because if you would have to choose to either do a move completely OR dodge - this would be a tactical element and make it actually interesting - but anyway, it will not go away anyway - but this does not make it any more right IMO.Edited by Lysette on May 29, 2018 1:47AM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
Fine. Just understand you are wrong, its not a bug and you are in no postion to argue on the subject with a complete lack of insight to the topic at hand. Its not a bug, its not an exploit, its not mandatory and it is in no way shape or form "wrong" And it doesnt effect a sizeable portion of the player base.
Move on.
So if it is not mandatory nor necessary - why do you defend it then?
It is not mandatory or necessary you do it but that does not mean it is wrong or bad. AC is certainly not bad, it is good for the game. Those that do not wish to figure it out do not have to.
0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
Fine. Just understand you are wrong, its not a bug and you are in no postion to argue on the subject with a complete lack of insight to the topic at hand. Its not a bug, its not an exploit, its not mandatory and it is in no way shape or form "wrong" And it doesnt effect a sizeable portion of the player base.
Move on.
So if it is not mandatory nor necessary - why do you defend it then?
It is not mandatory or necessary you do it but that does not mean it is wrong or bad. AC is certainly not bad, it is good for the game. Those that do not wish to figure it out do not have to.
Ok, let's agree to disagree -this leads to nothing, you have your opinion, I have mine - and that is ok that way.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
Fine. Just understand you are wrong, its not a bug and you are in no postion to argue on the subject with a complete lack of insight to the topic at hand. Its not a bug, its not an exploit, its not mandatory and it is in no way shape or form "wrong" And it doesnt effect a sizeable portion of the player base.
Move on.
So if it is not mandatory nor necessary - why do you defend it then?
That is the biggest point you are failing to grasp here... its not a singular thing to defend or condemn. It is a result of the moving parts of this games combat system. It is inherently necessary by design. I dont defend "animation canceling" as a concept. Frankly I find giving such a defined label as nonsense personally.
I defend the choices zos made when deciding to make a combat system that emphasizes player agency, a system thay allows them complete freedom to defend when necessary. I defend their choice to implement a GCD for which all ability use is governed. I defend their choice to animate skills in a way that lets them play out during a time frame where you cant cast an ability anyways. I defend their decision to make sure players arent punished for successfully landing cast time abilities via forcing them into a recovery animation. I defend their choice to create an mmo combat system where the white attacks are actives instead of autos.
Because of this i simply defend animation canceling. People that search for reasons to complain on the subject are automatically not worth much of my time as time and time again they demonstrate such a gross lack of logical thought and stubborness that often despite my best efforts they refuse to listen.
Side note personally... i was light attack weaving before I even knew it was a thing. It felt natural for me when absorbing this game to understand when i was and was not allowed to place attacks in a rotation between ability use.Edited by exeeter702 on May 29, 2018 1:59AM0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
Fine. Just understand you are wrong, its not a bug and you are in no postion to argue on the subject with a complete lack of insight to the topic at hand. Its not a bug, its not an exploit, its not mandatory and it is in no way shape or form "wrong" And it doesnt effect a sizeable portion of the player base.
Move on.
So if it is not mandatory nor necessary - why do you defend it then?
It’s less that we’re defending animation cancelling (for DPS purposes, that is) and more that we are contesting the very idea that you need to animation cancel all your skills to do good DPS. There’s this bizarre misconception out there that you “don’t see the animations” of good damage dealers, and that you get kicked out of dungeons for refusing to animation cancel.
The animation priority system (light/heavy attack < skill < bash < block/dodge roll/bar swap) exists for a reason. Getting rid of it would make defensive game play very difficult. Also, negating instant damage dealt if the recovery animation is cancelled makes no sense either. If you hit someone with a baseball bat and drop the bat without pulling it back to it’s starting position (cancelling the animation, as it were), you can’t just arbitrarily take back that damage you’ve done. Instant damage is instant damage. Occasional bar swap cancelling of slightly longer skills shaves a few milliseconds at most (WITHOUT bypassing the GCD, I have to emphasize) and barely has an impact on DPS over the course of a boss fight. It does FEEL better and makes the whole combat process more fluid/responsive, though, which is why we do it.
3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
Fine. Just understand you are wrong, its not a bug and you are in no postion to argue on the subject with a complete lack of insight to the topic at hand. Its not a bug, its not an exploit, its not mandatory and it is in no way shape or form "wrong" And it doesnt effect a sizeable portion of the player base.
Move on.
So if it is not mandatory nor necessary - why do you defend it then?
It is not mandatory or necessary you do it but that does not mean it is wrong or bad. AC is certainly not bad, it is good for the game. Those that do not wish to figure it out do not have to.
Ok, let's agree to disagree -this leads to nothing, you have your opinion, I have mine - and that is ok that way.
I completely respect your opinion you do not like it. However, that doe not make it a bug.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
Fine. Just understand you are wrong, its not a bug and you are in no postion to argue on the subject with a complete lack of insight to the topic at hand. Its not a bug, its not an exploit, its not mandatory and it is in no way shape or form "wrong" And it doesnt effect a sizeable portion of the player base.
Move on.
So if it is not mandatory nor necessary - why do you defend it then?
It’s less that we’re defending animation cancelling (for DPS purposes, that is) and more that we are contesting the very idea that you need to animation cancel all your skills to do good DPS. There’s this bizarre misconception out there that you “don’t see the animations” of good damage dealers, and that you get kicked out of dungeons for refusing to animation cancel.
The animation priority system (light/heavy attack < skill < bash < block/dodge roll/bar swap) exists for a reason. Getting rid of it would make defensive game play very difficult. Also, negating instant damage dealt if the recovery animation is cancelled makes no sense either. If you hit someone with a baseball bat and drop the bat without pulling it back to it’s starting position (cancelling the animation, as it were), you can’t just arbitrarily take back that damage you’ve done. Instant damage is instant damage. Occasional bar swap cancelling of slightly longer skills shaves a few milliseconds at most (WITHOUT bypassing the GCD, I have to emphasize) and barely has an impact on DPS over the course of a boss fight. It does FEEL better and makes the whole combat process more fluid/responsive, though, which is why we do it.
You have used the bat analogy a few times now. Im going to steal it for future threads. Just a heads up.1 -
Odnoc✭✭✭✭With all the “the game is too easy” posts I see, the simple thing to do would be to turn it off, maybe they should.0 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
Fine. Just understand you are wrong, its not a bug and you are in no postion to argue on the subject with a complete lack of insight to the topic at hand. Its not a bug, its not an exploit, its not mandatory and it is in no way shape or form "wrong" And it doesnt effect a sizeable portion of the player base.
Move on.
So if it is not mandatory nor necessary - why do you defend it then?
It’s less that we’re defending animation cancelling (for DPS purposes, that is) and more that we are contesting the very idea that you need to animation cancel all your skills to do good DPS. There’s this bizarre misconception out there that you “don’t see the animations” of good damage dealers, and that you get kicked out of dungeons for refusing to animation cancel.
The animation priority system (light/heavy attack < skill < bash < block/dodge roll/bar swap) exists for a reason. Getting rid of it would make defensive game play very difficult. Also, negating instant damage dealt if the recovery animation is cancelled makes no sense either. If you hit someone with a baseball bat and drop the bat without pulling it back to it’s starting position (cancelling the animation, as it were), you can’t just arbitrarily take back that damage you’ve done. Instant damage is instant damage. Occasional bar swap cancelling of slightly longer skills shaves a few milliseconds at most (WITHOUT bypassing the GCD, I have to emphasize) and barely has an impact on DPS over the course of a boss fight. It does FEEL better and makes the whole combat process more fluid/responsive, though, which is why we do it.
You have used the bat analogy a few times now. Im going to steal it for future threads. Just a heads up.
Feel free! There are probably other analogies that would work better... either way, the idea that it’s somehow better to roll back damage that has already been dealt simply because you don’t see the follow-through animation is nonsensical.
Edit: A better analogy: if I shoot a pistol at a target, the bullet will do the same amount of damage if I twirl the gun on my finger before reholstering it OR if I just stand there after pulling the trigger. That little finishing flourish (which, in ESO’s case, is the recovery animation) has no impact on the weapon’s ability to deal damage. If I decide to shoot a pistol and NOT twirl it on my finger, I don’t magically pull the bullet back into the barrel out of thin air.
Edited by Aurielle on May 29, 2018 2:42AM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I see I did not make my point in the right way - my argument was less that I do not like it, i don't, that is true, but by other reasons. My argument was, that if there would be a trade-off between choosing a more complex attack move OR a defensive move and this attack move would take some specific amount of time, where one is not able to dodge (like you can with animation cancelling), that this would add more tactics to the game and make it overall more interesting to play. What bothers me is that you can do a perfect complex attack move while at the same time do a defensive move as well.0 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭With all the “the game is too easy” posts I see, the simple thing to do would be to turn it off, maybe they should.
lols that would just make the game even easier, the opposite of the goal of your change!
Animation cancelling requires skill, that is the reason it is good. Is it hard? In reality, no. Not even a little. But maybe it is hard for some players.
Removing AC from the game would make the game incredibly slow paced, and, get this, it would ruin the combat system! Stop arguing for it!
1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭With all the “the game is too easy” posts I see, the simple thing to do would be to turn it off, maybe they should.
lols that would just make the game even easier, the opposite of the goal of your change!
Animation cancelling requires skill, that is the reason it is good. Is it hard? In reality, no. Not even a little. But maybe it is hard for some players.
Removing AC from the game would make the game incredibly slow paced, and, get this, it would ruin the combat system! Stop arguing for it!
There is again this skill thing - real world skills vs. ingame character skills -the first is for non-roleplayers, the second is for roleplayers. A roleplayer does not want a real world skill to govern the abilties of a character, but use the characters skills instead. Agency is for non roleplayers, whereas the character's abilities are for roleplayers - there is the crux, I guess. Different focus dependent on how people want to play the game.0 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭With all the “the game is too easy” posts I see, the simple thing to do would be to turn it off, maybe they should.
lols that would just make the game even easier, the opposite of the goal of your change!
Animation cancelling requires skill, that is the reason it is good. Is it hard? In reality, no. Not even a little. But maybe it is hard for some players.
Removing AC from the game would make the game incredibly slow paced, and, get this, it would ruin the combat system! Stop arguing for it!
There is again this skill thing - real world skills vs. ingame character skills -the first is for non-roleplayers, the second is for roleplayers. A roleplayer does not want a real world skill to govern the abilties of a character, but use the characters skills instead. Agency is for non roleplayers, whereas the character's abilities are for roleplayers - there is the crux, I guess. Different focus dependent on how people want to play the game.
No, there's nothing else but skill in this game. Your value is determined by skill nothing else.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭With all the “the game is too easy” posts I see, the simple thing to do would be to turn it off, maybe they should.
lols that would just make the game even easier, the opposite of the goal of your change!
Animation cancelling requires skill, that is the reason it is good. Is it hard? In reality, no. Not even a little. But maybe it is hard for some players.
Removing AC from the game would make the game incredibly slow paced, and, get this, it would ruin the combat system! Stop arguing for it!
There is again this skill thing - real world skills vs. ingame character skills -the first is for non-roleplayers, the second is for roleplayers. A roleplayer does not want a real world skill to govern the abilties of a character, but use the characters skills instead. Agency is for non roleplayers, whereas the character's abilities are for roleplayers - there is the crux, I guess. Different focus dependent on how people want to play the game.
No, there's nothing else but skill in this game. Your value is determined by skill nothing else.
Once again, a roleplayer wants to use his character's skills, not his own twitchy eye-hand coordination skills. There is the difference. ESO combat system favors agency of the player, not agency of the character- and that is not roleplay-like.
Or to say it differently - I am not my character - i jut guide him/her - but I play from his/her perspective using his/her skills, my real world abilities should NOT govern what my character can or cannot do.Edited by Lysette on May 29, 2018 3:08AM0 -
klowdy1✭✭✭✭✭Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Did a dev say that? I see the auto attack arguement a lot, but I haven't been able to find a source.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Did a dev say that? I see the auto attack arguement a lot, but I haven't been able to find a source.
Anyone who understands how the game is designed and has experience with mmos understands this. Its not something that needs confirmation. Its plain as day. This game obeys a great deal of mmo conventions, its not a mystery.0 -
Avalon✭✭✭✭✭I don't like animation cancelling because of how my hands don't work so well anymore, but that does not change that it is an important part of the game, and that it isn't a bug or glitch. The ability you are doing has an animation and has an effect. Two different things. The effect will occur regardless of the animation, at the exact same time as it always would have occurred. All animation cancelling does, is allow you to efficiently utilize your abilities instead of watching animations.
It's like playing a digital form of Magic The Gathering... players can turn the animations on or off, but professional players turn them off, they waste time when other stuff could be going on. Luckily, the game is not timed, so watching animations is up to the player, but will annoy other players if you do it. In ESO, though, time matters, so you can still do just fine, but if there are clutch moments (like need to dodge roll, or quickly pop out another ability in the middle of a channel, you need to do it).
So, no, it needs to stay just like it is, it's a pretty integral part of the game.0 -
why should cancel it？ESO‘s skill is cast too quickly and no GCD,between skill and skill is animation.
for example,in a combat,you are fast click button to cast skill one by one,suddenly the boss is cast a critical aoe skill can be interupt by bash or dodge out of range,and you want wait animation over and do what you want do(bash or dodge)?
If BOSS‘s skill is turn by turn,you know what skill will be cast,you can prepare for it.there has any different from WOW or GW?
Indeed,Do animation cancel to increase DPS is more often than any other activity in combat.but please consider the overall situation.
if you are not ultimate-end player,you can use bash\dodge\actionbar switch only,right?0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I see I did not make my point in the right way - my argument was less that I do not like it, i don't, that is true, but by other reasons. My argument was, that if there would be a trade-off between choosing a more complex attack move OR a defensive move and this attack move would take some specific amount of time, where one is not able to dodge (like you can with animation cancelling), that this would add more tactics to the game and make it overall more interesting to play. What bothers me is that you can do a perfect complex attack move while at the same time do a defensive move as well.
Again sorry but this entire mentality is a dead end. Please for the love of god please read carefully, PLEASE
Instant cast abilities resolve instantly. Any animation that plays out over the course of the GCD refresh is inconsequential. You cant speed the attack up visually to excute in its entirety in under 1 second, that would look ridiculous on top of making combat feel terrible - imagine the impact point of uppercut being at the point where your character is reeled back from the weight of the 2her. It makes no sense. You are not realizing that what you want would inadvertently make combat leaps and bounds more immersion breaking and look horrible.
If you hard cast an ability, the cast time has to complete for you to be rewarded with its yeild. If you take any defensive action before the cast completes, you get nothing. Likewise, if you break a channel prematurely, you not only eat the resource cost but you dont get the full yeild of the skill for which that resource cost is budgeted around. The GCD begins the moment you activate any skill, in the case of hard casted abilities, the GCD is refreshing WHILE the cast is going, this is why if you spam uppercut for example, it looks like you are doing this jackhammer twitch like smacks because the point where the ability resolves is the point where the strike visually makes contact with the target which lines right up with the GCD being refreshed and you are again allowed to activate another skill which is absolutely positively by design. If you do not activate anything, your character will do the complete follow through recovery animation where they reel back from the weight of the 2her.
If you were to force a player into this animation, you are not only denying them a GCD, but you are punishing them by disallowing them to take a defensive action. Lets say you play your hand right and predict an opponents movement and land a good clean uppercut, but you then immediately notice that a snipe is flying your way... you have met the criteria the game sets up for you in landing a hard cast ability at which point you have no other obligation to the skill, but since you want natural looking animations, you are forced to eat the snipe completely contrary to your clear knowledge that it was on its way.
So i pose the simple question? How do you fix that problem your suggestion would create? and how do you suggest anything that i have just laid out for you as anything even remotely close to being a bug or exploit?
1 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭exeeter702 wrote: »Learning to do this is like having to cut my grass... This is not fun to me nor is cutting my grass.. I feel like I'm forced to learn this or my options of enjoying this game are limited. I love this game and everything it offers aside from this forced grass cutting.
You do not have to learn how to do it. That is a choice.
But do you know what this does.. It forces people like me to just rally for casual pve content from the Devs over PvP or vet content.. And slowly this will decay the content requesting from PvP or end game elites.
Not correct. Considering AC has been around for more than 4 years it is an empty statement to say it is decaying anything.
Plenty of people have cleared all vet trials without AC. Most that have cleared HM of all trials do not AC except for weaving a light attack and when they are bar swapping anyhow.
Granted, it seems you are a little salty about something, but you have yet to actually provide anything substantial to back up your the generalizations you are making.I totally agree these exploits need to go.. and it would help with the power creep as well..
And it is clearly not an exploit by any stretch of the imagination. Surprised someone tries to claim AC is an exploit when the developers themselves have said it is legit.
Of course its an exploit.. you are breaking the game built in animation to put out more damage in a quicker time.. When you break a game animation why wouldn't it be considered an exploit..
Just because everyone considers it great and needed in the min maxers groups doesn't mean its not an exploit anymore than the xbox dungeon exploits.. both are breaking game mechanics for gains...If you have no reflexes then animation cancelling is not the problem, it's you. because animation cancelling has nothing to do with how good your reflexes are but more about your muscle memory. I can animation cancel without looking at the monitor because muscle memory does all the work. Reflexes are another thing. You could have the best reflexes in the world i don't care but if you don't practice the necessary routine to aid those reflexes you will die simple as that.
AC is what differentiates the bad from the moderate and the good. It is a very special mechanic in many different games for those who want to strive to be above the rest. If everybody was the same it would still not matter because there are always ways good players find to be competitive, then there would not be any excuses for bad players. Then what?
BS so many other mmo's have banned AC as an exploit as it pushes the gamers damage up far beyond what the game was designed to do.. just because its here and allowed doesn't change that its an exploit..
You literally are teaching the games population to exploit to pull more damage in dungeons.. In other mmos you guys would be banned and this "fixed"...
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19431/im-just-glad-this-game-does-not-use-animation-cancel
Half way down that thread someone states Arenanet fixed it.. multiple times.. i'm not a fan of guildwars but at least they fix their issues overwatch fixed Animation canceling as well..
Do you know what “global cool down” means? ESO has one. Look it up, and get back to me on how we’re supposedly able to do damage “far beyond what the game was designed to do.”
Lol there is no getting back. These peoples entire argument is framed around half truths, heresay and a lack of understanding precisely how and why the combat is designed the way it is. Im literally going to author an entire primer that shatters this nonsesne argument and copy paste in everytimg one of these stupid threads pops up. No matter how many times its explained to them, i just visualize the typical fingers in ears "lalalalalalala i cant hear you lalalalala" without any recourse. They are beyond reason or help.
And PM when you do so I can quote you so they can read it twice.They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »
In other games such as mmorpgs animation canceling is considered an exploit as it breaks the animation Guildwars 2 had animation canceling and devs there stopped it immediately as it was destroying pvp and dungeons..
Its not legitimate at all just because ESO devs allow it doesn't make it right.. but forcing the whole population to do this is wrong especially when it very much is an exploit in game mechanics.Learning to do this is like having to cut my grass... This is not fun to me nor is cutting my grass.. I feel like I'm forced to learn this or my options of enjoying this game are limited. I love this game and everything it offers aside from this forced grass cutting.
You do not have to learn how to do it. That is a choice.
But do you know what this does.. It forces people like me to just rally for casual pve content from the Devs over PvP or vet content.. And slowly this will decay the content requesting from PvP or end game elites.
Not correct. Considering AC has been around for more than 4 years it is an empty statement to say it is decaying anything.
Plenty of people have cleared all vet trials without AC. Most that have cleared HM of all trials do not AC except for weaving a light attack and when they are bar swapping anyhow.
Granted, it seems you are a little salty about something, but you have yet to actually provide anything substantial to back up your the generalizations you are making.I totally agree these exploits need to go.. and it would help with the power creep as well..
And it is clearly not an exploit by any stretch of the imagination. Surprised someone tries to claim AC is an exploit when the developers themselves have said it is legit.
Of course its an exploit.. you are breaking the game built in animation to put out more damage in a quicker time.. When you break a game animation why wouldn't it be considered an exploit..
Just because everyone considers it great and needed in the min maxers groups doesn't mean its not an exploit anymore than the xbox dungeon exploits.. both are breaking game mechanics for gains...
So some exploits are ok but others aren't.. wow..
Its not a god damn exploit. Jesus christ.
I just explained how it is one.. jesus christ.Learning to do this is like having to cut my grass... This is not fun to me nor is cutting my grass.. I feel like I'm forced to learn this or my options of enjoying this game are limited. I love this game and everything it offers aside from this forced grass cutting.
You do not have to learn how to do it. That is a choice.
But do you know what this does.. It forces people like me to just rally for casual pve content from the Devs over PvP or vet content.. And slowly this will decay the content requesting from PvP or end game elites.
Not correct. Considering AC has been around for more than 4 years it is an empty statement to say it is decaying anything.
Plenty of people have cleared all vet trials without AC. Most that have cleared HM of all trials do not AC except for weaving a light attack and when they are bar swapping anyhow.
Granted, it seems you are a little salty about something, but you have yet to actually provide anything substantial to back up your the generalizations you are making.I totally agree these exploits need to go.. and it would help with the power creep as well..
And it is clearly not an exploit by any stretch of the imagination. Surprised someone tries to claim AC is an exploit when the developers themselves have said it is legit.
Of course its an exploit.. you are breaking the game built in animation to put out more damage in a quicker time.. When you break a game animation why wouldn't it be considered an exploit..
Just because everyone considers it great and needed in the min maxers groups doesn't mean its not an exploit anymore than the xbox dungeon exploits.. both are breaking game mechanics for gains...If you have no reflexes then animation cancelling is not the problem, it's you. because animation cancelling has nothing to do with how good your reflexes are but more about your muscle memory. I can animation cancel without looking at the monitor because muscle memory does all the work. Reflexes are another thing. You could have the best reflexes in the world i don't care but if you don't practice the necessary routine to aid those reflexes you will die simple as that.
AC is what differentiates the bad from the moderate and the good. It is a very special mechanic in many different games for those who want to strive to be above the rest. If everybody was the same it would still not matter because there are always ways good players find to be competitive, then there would not be any excuses for bad players. Then what?
BS so many other mmo's have banned AC as an exploit as it pushes the gamers damage up far beyond what the game was designed to do.. just because its here and allowed doesn't change that its an exploit..
You literally are teaching the games population to exploit to pull more damage in dungeons.. In other mmos you guys would be banned and this "fixed"...
Yeah, that is as well how I see it - it is lazy of ZOS to call it a feature, when it is a bug. It just supports this button mashing, which is called "combat" in ESO. No trade-off whatsoever for choosing one more complex move over a block and the other way round - mindless button mashing, twitchy and hard to do for anyone, who is not near the server location as well.
1. That would punish all players with ping > 600, of which I frequently get ping spikes that high. Use an ability, ping jumps up to 600+, I get one shot because I was stuck in my ability's animation from over a second ago.
2. No, you don't need to be in the US to use animation cancelling. I live in Australia, and frequently get a ping of 300-350ms, and I have no issues using animation cancelling. This is either a personal or a L2P issue, if you can't get the hang of animation cancelling. Simple as that.
Animation canceling already punishes customers with 600 ping times so how would it differ... Love to see a video of you animation canceling with a 350 ping time.. I'm Aussie as well and i must constantly press my skills multiple times and when i shoot my light attack between skills nothing happens at those pings constantly.. the servers just do not register fast weaving at 300 ping..
And yes its an exploit.
You are right that the servers don't register fast animation cancelling, and that's the key to animation cancelling smoothly at our general ping ranges: slow yourself down until the servers start registering your inputs.
As for showing a video of me animation cancelling...
Granted this wasn't at 350 ping, as my internet was actually behaving itself today, it still shows that you can animation cancel / light attack weave at 250-300 ping. I do typically get 300-350 ping, especially in group dungeons where I have a full group, or in overland zones with other players. Trials my ping jumps up to 350-400.
Animation cancelling at this sort of ping is less about trying to do it as fast as possible, and more about experimenting with the speed of your rotation, to find a speed that both the servers actually register your inputs, and you yourself are comfortable with. On the PTS while testing a fully built stam sorc, I could speed my rotation up just a tad and the servers would still register my inputs, however it just didn't feel comfortable to do. Things would just be moving too quick, since I was used to a slightly slower rotation. So I've stuck with my slightly slower rotation.
Also note that I am not the best player, not by any stretch of the imagination. My DPS in that fight, and the entire dungeon essentially, is testament to that (generally pulled around 22-25k DPS). I made mistakes, I did go too fast at one point, I ran out of resources a few times. I am still perfecting my rotation, I am still learning about the combat system, I am still working on my build, and I am still working on getting the gear together (I was doing that fight with 5 Hunding's Rage (3 purple armour pieces, 2 gold daggers (Precise + Infused), 1 purple bow(Sharpened)), 5 Leviathan (3 purple jewelry pieces, 1 purple armour piece, 1 blue armour piece, only one armour piece in Divines), 2 Stormfist (both purple, both trash traits)). A player with a better build, better gear, and is more proficient in their rotation could likely do much better than me with the same ping.
It just comes down to finding what you are comfortable with. Sit at a 3 million target dummy, and practice your rotation, slowly to begin with. Practice hitting light attack, then immediately hitting a skill. Practice hitting a skill right before you bar swap. Get used to the flow of your rotation, then speed it up. Rinse, repeat. We all did this, we all started off mashing buttons, and we all eventually learned our rotations, then started perfecting them. Just practice.Edited by jcm2606 on May 29, 2018 3:39AM0 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
There is nothing wrong with animation cancelling! You do not need to cancel the animations of your skills to deal 30k+ DPS! You cannot bypass the global cooldown with animation cancelling! You do need to cancel animations to dodge roll out of AOE, taunt a boss while blocking, stop casting Jesus Beam to throw out BoL, etc. and the game would be broken without it.
It.
Is.
Not.
A.
Bug.
Agree it should be canceble. But since the animation is cancelled, the attack didn't happen, so the damage should be cancelled also, Everybody happy.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."3 -
Avalon✭✭✭✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
There is nothing wrong with animation cancelling! You do not need to cancel the animations of your skills to deal 30k+ DPS! You cannot bypass the global cooldown with animation cancelling! You do need to cancel animations to dodge roll out of AOE, taunt a boss while blocking, stop casting Jesus Beam to throw out BoL, etc. and the game would be broken without it.
It.
Is.
Not.
A.
Bug.
Agree it should be canceble. But since the animation is cancelled, the attack didn't happen, so the damage should be cancelled also, Everybody happy.
But, realistically, swinging a sword takes all of a blink of an eye (it does, really, it does!), so, the animations are just flourishes to make players go "Oooo, Ahhhh!" not actually required, because they really would happen faster. So, cancelling the animation is only cancelling the "Fancy fireworks", the effect still happens, because even the devs know the ability would not take that long. By not cancelling, you are only opting to watch a cinematic, an artistic representation, a flourish. So, no.0 -
Seri✭✭✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »Well, it would bother me, if I would want to PvP, because I think, it is just a very lazy and faulty implementation, which was raised to a feature, because ZOS could not fix it. But I am not PvPing and I do as well no group content, so be it. It is one of the reasons though, that I do not do any of the group content - because people would force me to learn it, and I refuse. To me that is a bug and not a feature.
Lysette, you do not have to cancel the animations of all of your skills to do good DPS. Also, attack weaving is merely ESO’s active equivalent of passive auto-attacking in other MMOs. It’s not a bug, it’s not difficult to do, and it’s also not the equivalent of an insta-30k+ DPS button.
Well, I don't like it, I wait for the animation to play and then I do the next move - I give a damn on good dps, I want it to look nicely and one motion after the other not all in one causing a visual mess.
I also see all of my skill animations play out on my PVE DPS character with light attack weaving (just not Volatile Familiar, which I bar-swap cancel). It’s not a “visual mess.” I do 35k DPS self-buffed on target dummies using my dungeon/trial setup when I’m blessed with good crit RNG, and 32-33k when I’m not.
Repeat after me: “I don’t need to cancel the animations of my skills to do competent DPS, so I don’t need to use animation cancelling as a scapegoat to explain why I’m ‘barred’ from endgame content”
I have no interest in end game content either - end game is for me - end of game - and I will move on.
You suggested earlier that animation cancelling prohibits you from doing group content (it doesn’t, FYI). If you have no interest in end game content, why are you making false claims about an aspect of ESO’s combat system that doesn’t affect you anyway?
Because things which are wrong are wrong, regardless if they effect me or not - to me that is a bug declared to be a feature, because ZOS could not fix it properly.And this does not change, regardless if it effects me or not.
There is nothing wrong with animation cancelling! You do not need to cancel the animations of your skills to deal 30k+ DPS! You cannot bypass the global cooldown with animation cancelling! You do need to cancel animations to dodge roll out of AOE, taunt a boss while blocking, stop casting Jesus Beam to throw out BoL, etc. and the game would be broken without it.
It.
Is.
Not.
A.
Bug.
Agree it should be canceble. But since the animation is cancelled, the attack didn't happen, so the damage should be cancelled also, Everybody happy.
But, realistically, swinging a sword takes all of a blink of an eye (it does, really, it does!), so, the animations are just flourishes to make players go "Oooo, Ahhhh!" not actually required, because they really would happen faster. So, cancelling the animation is only cancelling the "Fancy fireworks", the effect still happens, because even the devs know the ability would not take that long. By not cancelling, you are only opting to watch a cinematic, an artistic representation, a flourish. So, no.
That and based on the prioritization system changes made a few years ago as linked earlier in the thread, the light and heavy attacks are supposed to always connect anyway, even if a skill is started before the strike, so it literally is the 'post-strike' flourish that gets clipped.EP CP160+ Templar, Sorc, NB
DC CP160+ Templar, Sorc, DK0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXNH5fuxXPo