Hide Vampirism option. Please?

White wabbit

Linaleah wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

You want the pros well then you have to take the cons too

there are enough cons without making your character look terrible.. like you know that whole needing to feed and weakness to fire thing.

But the pros outweigh the cons or you would have cured it , where does it stop werewolfs not actually changing into werewolfs , sorry but no it should stay as is

SixVoltCar

notimetocare wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

All the people against hiding vamparism shouldn't use the outfit system or costumes as monster sets and armor/weapon weight affect gameplay a lot more than vamparism. There is no drawback to using the outfit system to hide my heavy gear as light gear, nor my axes as swords, nor my extremely game altering monster sets with motif pieces.

Many in that crowd say that knowing that the other person is a vampire is important for "mah cyrodils" but don't be a hypocrite and use the outfit system where I can hide my monster sets that make a HUGE difference

Outfit gives no ingame buffs. Bad comparison

Except the entire passive lines

Vercingetorix

This is a pointless request. Vampirism appearance in the ES universe is a part of the deal - if you don't like the appearance, you picked the wrong franchise. There are no strains of vampirism anywhere in Tamriel that allow a person to look "normal" - there's always an appearance change.

If ZoS were to give players like yourself the ability to hide your normal vampiric condition, it should come at a ridiculously high cost, such as a useless 5-piece set bonus that has to be farmed... with Telvar:
2 - Health Recovery
3 - Health Recovery
4 - Health Recovery
5 - You deal 50% less damage and the visual effects of vampirism are removed.

Aliyavana

Vercingetorix wrote: »

This is a pointless request. Vampirism appearance in the ES universe is a part of the deal - if you don't like the appearance, you picked the wrong franchise. There are no strains of vampirism anywhere in Tamriel that allow a person to look "normal" - there's always an appearance change.

If ZoS were to give players like yourself the ability to hide your normal vampiric condition, it should come at a ridiculously high cost, such as a useless 5-piece set bonus that has to be farmed... with Telvar:
2 - Health Recovery
3 - Health Recovery
4 - Health Recovery
5 - You deal 50% less damage and the visual effects of vampirism are removed.

Read your lore

bg22

White wabbit wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

You want the pros well then you have to take the cons too

there are enough cons without making your character look terrible.. like you know that whole needing to feed and weakness to fire thing.

But the pros outweigh the cons or you would have cured it , where does it stop werewolfs not actually changing into werewolfs , sorry but no it should stay as is

Great point...

You mean the bonus you get for having werewolf slotted as your ultimate but only for the bonus you get, but never actually using the ultimate?

DoctorESO

Linaleah wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

You want the pros well then you have to take the cons too

there are enough cons without making your character look terrible.. like you know that whole needing to feed and weakness to fire thing.

And Fighter's Guild abilities.

Linaleah

White wabbit wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

You want the pros well then you have to take the cons too

there are enough cons without making your character look terrible.. like you know that whole needing to feed and weakness to fire thing.

But the pros outweigh the cons or you would have cured it , where does it stop werewolfs not actually changing into werewolfs , sorry but no it should stay as is

so basically what you are saying is that you want to punish vampires becasue werewolf is useless? instead of proposing solutions to make werewolf more viable? and in any case, my wolf only turns wolfie in COMBAT. when I'm in town, I can easily ignore being a wolf. it doesn't mess with my appearance. it doesn't change anything until I CHOSE to use it.

so... its fine if vampirism becomes visible once you use VAMPIRE abilities. but outside of that? glamour IS a thing, and in game npc vampires DO get to use it. just not players for some reason.

Wildberryjack

No. You're a Vampire, you should look like one. That would be like Werewolves getting all the abilities of WW when they change but stay looking human and not furry with teeth and a tail.

The only thing they need to do is not have tattoos fade out on Vampires. Even tattoos on centuries dead bodies are nice and dark, not so faded they can't be seen. The layer for tattoos needs to be put on TOP of the layer for Vampire.

Aliyavana

DjinnRa wrote: »

No. You're a Vampire, you should look like one. That would be like Werewolves getting all the abilities of WW when they change but stay looking human and not furry with teeth and a tail.

The only thing they need to do is not have tattoos fade out on Vampires. Even tattoos on centuries dead bodies are nice and dark, not so faded they can't be seen. The layer for tattoos needs to be put on TOP of the layer for Vampire.

lore

Wildberryjack

Aliyavana wrote: »

DjinnRa wrote: »

No. You're a Vampire, you should look like one. That would be like Werewolves getting all the abilities of WW when they change but stay looking human and not furry with teeth and a tail.

The only thing they need to do is not have tattoos fade out on Vampires. Even tattoos on centuries dead bodies are nice and dark, not so faded they can't be seen. The layer for tattoos needs to be put on TOP of the layer for Vampire.

lore

Irrelevant. You are a Vampire not a fairy to "glamor" yourself. Vampire. Vam. Pire.

MLGProPlayer

Vercingetorix wrote: »

This is a pointless request. Vampirism appearance in the ES universe is a part of the deal - if you don't like the appearance, you picked the wrong franchise. There are no strains of vampirism anywhere in Tamriel that allow a person to look "normal" - there's always an appearance change.

If ZoS were to give players like yourself the ability to hide your normal vampiric condition, it should come at a ridiculously high cost, such as a useless 5-piece set bonus that has to be farmed... with Telvar:
2 - Health Recovery
3 - Health Recovery
4 - Health Recovery
5 - You deal 50% less damage and the visual effects of vampirism are removed.

This is incorrect. You even run into vampires in ESO that are hiding their appearance.

MLGProPlayer

DjinnRa wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

DjinnRa wrote: »

No. You're a Vampire, you should look like one. That would be like Werewolves getting all the abilities of WW when they change but stay looking human and not furry with teeth and a tail.

The only thing they need to do is not have tattoos fade out on Vampires. Even tattoos on centuries dead bodies are nice and dark, not so faded they can't be seen. The layer for tattoos needs to be put on TOP of the layer for Vampire.

lore

Irrelevant. You are a Vampire not a fairy to "glamor" yourself. Vampire. Vam. Pire.

The "anti-hide" crowd first argues that you can't hide vampirism because it goes against the lore. When that is disproven, the lore is suddenly irrelevant? Make up your minds.

MLGProPlayer

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

This again? Why can't people understand that this is not Twilight mmorpg. Vampires are abominations and they deserve to look like monsters.

1. Vampires are mandatory for PvE endgame
2. This is an MMO, your appearance matters
3. You can hide everything else in the game, why not vampirism?

If vampires didn't give such strong PvE buffs, I wouldn't give a *** about what they look like. The fact that you are forced to be one in this game is a problem. If I could choose whether I want to be a vampire or not, of course I'd pick not to be one. But that isn't the case. By not being a vampire, I lose out on 10% resource regen. The choice to be one is made by the game for me. You are severely gimping yourself if you aren't a vampire.

It's also mandatory for efficient Thieve's Guild completion.

The amount of benefits that vampirism gives compared to having almost no drawbacks is pretty ridiculous.

Aliyavana

DjinnRa wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

DjinnRa wrote: »

No. You're a Vampire, you should look like one. That would be like Werewolves getting all the abilities of WW when they change but stay looking human and not furry with teeth and a tail.

The only thing they need to do is not have tattoos fade out on Vampires. Even tattoos on centuries dead bodies are nice and dark, not so faded they can't be seen. The layer for tattoos needs to be put on TOP of the layer for Vampire.

lore

Irrelevant. You are a Vampire not a fairy to "glamor" yourself. Vampire. Vam. Pire.

irrelevant? lore is the backbone of this series, it prevents bad things like dragon mounts from happening

phermitgb

this argument goes on and on, and it almost always boils down to one of several of the same points of view...

1 - cost/benefit - Vampire effect changes the effectiveness of your character, for current ESO, mostly in the positive direction - there should be some kind of balance to that - since there's no/little MECHANICAL balance effect, many people want there to at least be a COSMETIC balance effect...

2 - people WANT, or in some cases, NEED (if they feel that absolute maximum "viability" is a necessity) vampirism to have the total effect of character they want, but they don't think it's fair to be punished cosmetically for picking the mechanically ideal choice

3 - LORE - many lore purists have discovered that only SOME vampires HAVE to have some visual cue that they're vampires, and would either LIKE the option to play the ones that don't (because they really do care about the aesthetic nature of their characters), or cherry pick the narrow range of lore examples they want to get the mechanical bonuses of being a vampire without having to have any significant cost of any kind

#3 is the biggest problem, as it's almost impossible to separate the people who just care about the way their avatar looks (which doesn't really mechanically affect anyone) vs the people that want the mechanical benefits of being a vampire without having to pay any real cost

all of the above is compounded by the fact that the relatively fewer # of people that prefer lycanthrope (the only real contemporary of vampire), have significantly less/fewer of the mechanical benefits of being a vampire while at the same time being locked into a particular aesthetic (esthetic? *shrug*)

in short, to everyone that plays a werewolf, every vampire thread about "removing vamp appearance" sounds like...
HEY - I WANT TO BE MORE POWERFUL THAN WEREWOLVES (WHICH I ALREADY AM) WITHOUT HAVING TO HAVE EVEN A COSMETIC CONSEQUENCE FOR DOING SO! GIMME!!!

obviously, that's not what EVERY vampire player *actually* wants, but it's what you sound like to those of us playing werewolves...and to some of us that don't play werewolves but don't care or actively dislike being vampires for whatever reason

on the face of it, yah, removing the vampire appearance for characters wouldn't make a whole lot of difference - in fact, it wouldn't make any MECHANICAL difference at all. But for f's sake - shouldn't there be SOME degree of cost to having to have that much of an advantage? and don't tell us it isn't an advantage, because if the cosmetic option was really SOOOO disagreeable, why not just NOT BE A VAMPIRE? For the vast majority of you, it's because THERE'S MORE POWER IN IT FOR YOU! (yes, there are a very small # of people that want to be vampires for RP or personal perception reasons - I do not lump you into the above group - however, I think we can all agree that you represent a very, very niche portion of the "why can't vampires turn off vampire visual effects?" crowd).

Aliyavana

phermitgb wrote: »

this argument goes on and on, and it almost always boils down to one of several of the same points of view...

1 - cost/benefit - Vampire effect changes the effectiveness of your character, for current ESO, mostly in the positive direction - there should be some kind of balance to that - since there's no/little MECHANICAL balance effect, many people want there to at least be a COSMETIC balance effect...

2 - people WANT, or in some cases, NEED (if they feel that absolute maximum "viability" is a necessity) vampirism to have the total effect of character they want, but they don't think it's fair to be punished cosmetically for picking the mechanically ideal choice

3 - LORE - many lore purists have discovered that only SOME vampires HAVE to have some visual cue that they're vampires, and would either LIKE the option to play the ones that don't (because they really do care about the aesthetic nature of their characters), or cherry pick the narrow range of lore examples they want to get the mechanical bonuses of being a vampire without having to have any significant cost of any kind

#3 is the biggest problem, as it's almost impossible to separate the people who just care about the way their avatar looks (which doesn't really mechanically affect anyone) vs the people that want the mechanical benefits of being a vampire without having to pay any real cost

all of the above is compounded by the fact that the relatively fewer # of people that prefer lycanthrope (the only real contemporary of vampire), have significantly less/fewer of the mechanical benefits of being a vampire while at the same time being locked into a particular aesthetic (esthetic? *shrug*)

in short, to everyone that plays a werewolf, every vampire thread about "removing vamp appearance" sounds like...
HEY - I WANT TO BE MORE POWERFUL THAN WEREWOLVES (WHICH I ALREADY AM) WITHOUT HAVING TO HAVE EVEN A COSMETIC CONSEQUENCE FOR DOING SO! GIMME!!!

obviously, that's not what EVERY vampire player *actually* wants, but it's what you sound like to those of us playing werewolves...and to some of us that don't play werewolves but don't care or actively dislike being vampires for whatever reason

on the face of it, yah, removing the vampire appearance for characters wouldn't make a whole lot of difference - in fact, it wouldn't make any MECHANICAL difference at all. But for f's sake - shouldn't there be SOME degree of cost to having to have that much of an advantage? and don't tell us it isn't an advantage, because if the cosmetic option was really SOOOO disagreeable, why not just NOT BE A VAMPIRE? For the vast majority of you, it's because THERE'S MORE POWER IN IT FOR YOU! (yes, there are a very small # of people that want to be vampires for RP or personal perception reasons - I do not lump you into the above group - however, I think we can all agree that you represent a very, very niche portion of the "why can't vampires turn off vampire visual effects?" crowd).

No one wants to hide werewolf, werewolves look *** awesome. If vamparism looked awesome like werewolves did I'd fully embrace it.

Mgghool

If you want benefits of vampire you have to accept being hideous undead. It is that simple. Big no to normal look to vampires - maybe only active togle skill you have to double slot taking away portion of vampire benefits.

_Salty_

Another day, another hide vampirism thread.

If you want to reap the benifits of being a Vamp you should have to actually look like one.

I know exercising logic is an out of practice skill these days.

phermitgb

Aliyavana wrote: »

No one wants to hide werewolf, werewolves look *** awesome. If vamparism looked awesome like werewolves did I'd fully embrace it.

hehe...see, being a werewolf DOES look kinda awesome, but having the entire werewolf skill line locked behind the werewolf ultimate, and losing access to all your other class and weapon skills, is still a serious limitation. Point being, werewolf skills, while fairly formidable, still don't make up for the versatility of ALL THE OTHER SKILL LINES you have access to while being a vampire.

overall point being, that the werewolf line, while I appreciate that it works differently than the vampire line (which I think is nice in a game/lore flavorful way), just isn't as...desirable, as the vampire line. Honestly, I feel the vampire line would have been far better balanced if it worked like the werewolf line - in that you had to completely become a vampire using an ultimate and then got access to awesome vampire skills at the cost of all your other skill lines - not necessarily lore appropriate, but better balanced

but ZOS went a different way, and created a rather massive disparity in the process

MLGProPlayer

_Salty_ wrote: »

Another day, another hide vampirism thread.

If you want to reap the benifits of being a Vamp you should have to actually look like one.

I know exercising logic is an out of practice skill these days.

Gameplay benefits should always come with gameplay drawbacks. Gameplay and cosmetics should be kept 100% separate, and are for the most part in this game (you can hide your helmet and arnour and even weapon type). Vampirism should be no different.

White wabbit

Linaleah wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

You want the pros well then you have to take the cons too

there are enough cons without making your character look terrible.. like you know that whole needing to feed and weakness to fire thing.

But the pros outweigh the cons or you would have cured it , where does it stop werewolfs not actually changing into werewolfs , sorry but no it should stay as is

so basically what you are saying is that you want to punish vampires becasue werewolf is useless? instead of proposing solutions to make werewolf more viable? and in any case, my wolf only turns wolfie in COMBAT. when I'm in town, I can easily ignore being a wolf. it doesn't mess with my appearance. it doesn't change anything until I CHOSE to use it.

so... its fine if vampirism becomes visible once you use VAMPIRE abilities. but outside of that? glamour IS a thing, and in game npc vampires DO get to use it. just not players for some reason.

Didn't say any of that read posts before commenting

MLGProPlayer

phermitgb wrote: »

this argument goes on and on, and it almost always boils down to one of several of the same points of view...

1 - cost/benefit - Vampire effect changes the effectiveness of your character, for current ESO, mostly in the positive direction - there should be some kind of balance to that - since there's no/little MECHANICAL balance effect, many people want there to at least be a COSMETIC balance effect...

2 - people WANT, or in some cases, NEED (if they feel that absolute maximum "viability" is a necessity) vampirism to have the total effect of character they want, but they don't think it's fair to be punished cosmetically for picking the mechanically ideal choice

3 - LORE - many lore purists have discovered that only SOME vampires HAVE to have some visual cue that they're vampires, and would either LIKE the option to play the ones that don't (because they really do care about the aesthetic nature of their characters), or cherry pick the narrow range of lore examples they want to get the mechanical bonuses of being a vampire without having to have any significant cost of any kind

#3 is the biggest problem, as it's almost impossible to separate the people who just care about the way their avatar looks (which doesn't really mechanically affect anyone) vs the people that want the mechanical benefits of being a vampire without having to pay any real cost

all of the above is compounded by the fact that the relatively fewer # of people that prefer lycanthrope (the only real contemporary of vampire), have significantly less/fewer of the mechanical benefits of being a vampire while at the same time being locked into a particular aesthetic (esthetic? *shrug*)

in short, to everyone that plays a werewolf, every vampire thread about "removing vamp appearance" sounds like...
HEY - I WANT TO BE MORE POWERFUL THAN WEREWOLVES (WHICH I ALREADY AM) WITHOUT HAVING TO HAVE EVEN A COSMETIC CONSEQUENCE FOR DOING SO! GIMME!!!

obviously, that's not what EVERY vampire player *actually* wants, but it's what you sound like to those of us playing werewolves...and to some of us that don't play werewolves but don't care or actively dislike being vampires for whatever reason

on the face of it, yah, removing the vampire appearance for characters wouldn't make a whole lot of difference - in fact, it wouldn't make any MECHANICAL difference at all. But for f's sake - shouldn't there be SOME degree of cost to having to have that much of an advantage? and don't tell us it isn't an advantage, because if the cosmetic option was really SOOOO disagreeable, why not just NOT BE A VAMPIRE? For the vast majority of you, it's because THERE'S MORE POWER IN IT FOR YOU! (yes, there are a very small # of people that want to be vampires for RP or personal perception reasons - I do not lump you into the above group - however, I think we can all agree that you represent a very, very niche portion of the "why can't vampires turn off vampire visual effects?" crowd).

Lycanthropy isn't mandatory for PvE or PvP. You can bet that if people were forced to be werewolves, they would be asking for a way to cover the appearance.

Vampirism is so insanely strong right now that you're gimping yourself if you don't transforn. Most players aren't vampires because they want to be vampires. They're vampires because it's necessary if you want to have the best possible PvE build.

White wabbit

God zos just give the whinners the option to hide it as it's getting annoying that there seems to be a thread every week about this , but charge for this option as you might as well make some money out of this

Heimpai

Shouldn’t vampires be wayyy faster and stronger? or are they just mosquitoes in elder scrolls lore?

Linaleah

phermitgb wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

No one wants to hide werewolf, werewolves look *** awesome. If vamparism looked awesome like werewolves did I'd fully embrace it.

hehe...see, being a werewolf DOES look kinda awesome, but having the entire werewolf skill line locked behind the werewolf ultimate, and losing access to all your other class and weapon skills, is still a serious limitation. Point being, werewolf skills, while fairly formidable, still don't make up for the versatility of ALL THE OTHER SKILL LINES you have access to while being a vampire.

overall point being, that the werewolf line, while I appreciate that it works differently than the vampire line (which I think is nice in a game/lore flavorful way), just isn't as...desirable, as the vampire line. Honestly, I feel the vampire line would have been far better balanced if it worked like the werewolf line - in that you had to completely become a vampire using an ultimate and then got access to awesome vampire skills at the cost of all your other skill lines - not necessarily lore appropriate, but better balanced

but ZOS went a different way, and created a rather massive disparity in the process

so the solution here is to ask ZoS to MAKE WEREWOLF EQUALLY VIABLE instead of engaging in Shadefreude and asking vampire players to keep suffering looking horrible. and I say that as a werewolf player

Linaleah

White wabbit wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

You want the pros well then you have to take the cons too

there are enough cons without making your character look terrible.. like you know that whole needing to feed and weakness to fire thing.

But the pros outweigh the cons or you would have cured it , where does it stop werewolfs not actually changing into werewolfs , sorry but no it should stay as is

so basically what you are saying is that you want to punish vampires becasue werewolf is useless? instead of proposing solutions to make werewolf more viable? and in any case, my wolf only turns wolfie in COMBAT. when I'm in town, I can easily ignore being a wolf. it doesn't mess with my appearance. it doesn't change anything until I CHOSE to use it.

so... its fine if vampirism becomes visible once you use VAMPIRE abilities. but outside of that? glamour IS a thing, and in game npc vampires DO get to use it. just not players for some reason.

Didn't say any of that read posts before commenting

you absolutely implied it, as does everyone else who is against an option to hide vampirism. you WANT vampire players to be punished, one way or another.

phermitgb

Linaleah wrote: »

so the solution here is to ask ZoS to MAKE WEREWOLF EQUALLY VIABLE instead of engaging in Shadefreude and asking vampire players to keep suffering looking horrible. and I say that as a werewolf player

scha·den·freu·de

the solution is to make a decision - Werewolf vs Vampire - is there an intent to keep them balanced against each other as CHOICES? Or are they meant to be some kind of cosmetic/flavorful ALTERATION of some kind.

Right now, according to virtually everyone playing vampires or complaining about the skill line, is that VAMPIRE is significantly BETTER than being a werewolf.

In MMOS, there is usually supposed to be SOME SORT OF COST to being some kind of superior.

Now, if werewolf/vampire are MEANT to be balanced, there should be SOME KIND of give-and-take between picking one, the other, or neither - at the moment, werewolf seems to be universally reviled as inferior (I suspect, because as a vampire, you still have access to all your class/weapon skill lines, and as a werewolf, you do not)

and picking NEITHER **ALSO** seems to be inferior

meaning that Vampire has NO COST FOR SUPERIOR EFFECT **EXCEPT** a cosmetic cost, and a whole community of supporters asking to remove EVEN THE COSMETIC COST.

my point being...asking vampires to endure SOME KIND OF COST is...I suppose, a kind of schadenfeude, but not an unjustifiable one

phermitgb

Linaleah wrote: »

[quote="phermitgb;c-5159948"

so the solution here is to ask ZoS to MAKE WEREWOLF EQUALLY VIABLE instead of engaging in Shadefreude and asking vampire players to keep suffering looking horrible. and I say that as a werewolf player

also, to be fair - the solution isn't just to ask ZOS to make werewolf EQUALLY viable...it would be to offer a 3d alternative, where BEING NO KIND OF VAMPIRE/WEREWOLF (or possibly being a CURED vampire/werewolf, which I think would be more mechanically/lore interesting) would have it's own set of advantages/skills

personally, I'd love to see a "cured" skill line, where you get passives related to resisting vampire/werewolf abilities, and skills that either specifically target the weaknesses of the others, and/or give you resistances

admittedly, SOME of the fighter's guild covers this, but honestly, if there were a dawnguard/stendarr skillline that was ONLY accessible if you had werewolf/vampire CURED, that'd be sooo freakin' better, IMO

Olith

Aliyavana wrote: »

also don't bother hiding your gear nor weapons with different tier weights or weapons as with your logic it should look the part to get the benifits

But yes, this is exactly what it should be like, right? Sometimes I wonder why so many people choose to play an RPG and then constantly complain about everything "roleplaying" in it.

Linaleah

phermitgb wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

[quote="phermitgb;c-5159948"

so the solution here is to ask ZoS to MAKE WEREWOLF EQUALLY VIABLE instead of engaging in Shadefreude and asking vampire players to keep suffering looking horrible. and I say that as a werewolf player

also, to be fair - the solution isn't just to ask ZOS to make werewolf EQUALLY viable...it would be to offer a 3d alternative, where BEING NO KIND OF VAMPIRE/WEREWOLF (or possibly being a CURED vampire/werewolf, which I think would be more mechanically/lore interesting) would have it's own set of advantages/skills

personally, I'd love to see a "cured" skill line, where you get passives related to resisting vampire/werewolf abilities, and skills that either specifically target the weaknesses of the others, and/or give you resistances

admittedly, SOME of the fighter's guild covers this, but honestly, if there were a dawnguard/stendarr skillline that was ONLY accessible if you had werewolf/vampire CURED, that'd be sooo freakin' better, IMO

I'd be totally cool with that. but right now what i'm seeing is a lot of very bitter people who want those people who want to minmax - to suffer. at the other quote, well pardon me for missing a letter N while typing, as if it somehow invalidates the point I was making. since you corrected my word to spelling it should have you obviously realized what i was refering to.

but that aside - rather then wanting people to suffer by either chosing not to minmax, or looking horrible, while minmaxing? maybe,. just maybe.. like the quote above, we should concider making other options viable? you know, so that instead of people being various stages of unhappy, we have actual viable options for all kinds of playstyles and having people happy with their choices, whatever those choices may be? just maybe?

how does it hurt any of you if vamipirism can be hidden anyways?

P.S. there IS a cost other then appearance. vulnerability to fire and if you want to stay at specific stage you have to micromanage it. oh and the vampire skills themselves are basically useless. but what do I know, I don't take vindictive pleasure from unhappiness of other people.