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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Strife changes vs. Conjured Ward changes
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Roger_kun✭✭Magblades weren’t hit quite as hard as the rest of us by Morrowind sustain changes. So they fixed that.
Welcome to the club-house with the rest of us! Take a sustain glyph or two and heavy attack once in a while and you’ll be okay.
And let the NB lose the damage. Perfect solution!
Compare the sorc and NB in the damage. Sorc conducts heavy attacks and gives damage higher than NB, which does not conduct heavy attacks. Why nerf NB?1 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭The base damage of Strife (1749) and morphs (1803) is close to Force Pulse (3 x 579 = 1737) and more than twice of Elemental Weapon (739).
Strife is not enhanced by the passive race. Strife does not activate the staff's passives. Strife does not increase its damage by 10% magic penetration.
You really do not understand this?
That is not the point of him pointing that part out. And he is just comparing tooltip damage of both skills without the passives affecting them.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The base damage of Strife (1749) and morphs (1803) is close to Force Pulse (3 x 579 = 1737) and more than twice of Elemental Weapon (739).
Strife is not enhanced by the passive race. Strife does not activate the staff's passives. Strife does not increase its damage by 10% magic penetration.
You really do not understand this?
Force Shock doesnt give You healing over time. Force Shock doesnt activate Siphoning passives. Force Shock doesnt give You ultimate for using. Force Shock doesnt give You 8% more magicka when slotted. Force Shock dmg can be reduced by certain race passives like Nords or Dunmers ones.
You really dont understand this ?
1 -
Jerkling✭✭✭✭
"Have to"? my MagSorc has better sustain than my MagBlade, so it seems to me it rather comes down to playstyle and rotation.Micah_Bayer wrote: »Sorcerers have to spend 8k magicka every 5 seconds. You think mag nb has resource issues?
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Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭
"Have to"? my MagSorc has better sustain than my MagBlade, so it seems to me it rather comes down to playstyle and rotation.Micah_Bayer wrote: »Sorcerers have to spend 8k magicka every 5 seconds. You think mag nb has resource issues?
If your magsorc have better sustain than your magnb with the same set-up, then you need to l2p magblade.
To come back on the topic, can we please just delete it ? We all know this is a stupid discussion.3 -
Jerkling✭✭✭✭who says they have the same setup? what do you even know about my builds that you think you can tell that i need to l2p MagBlade. for all i know you're a noob who doesn't no s*** about this game, so who cares what you think.
you are not "we" and your oppinion doesn't matter when it comes to what's worth discussing and what isn't. get over yourself!1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭who says they have the same setup? what do you even know about my builds that you think you can tell that i need to l2p MagBlade. for all i know you're a noob who doesn't no s*** about this game, so who cares what you think.
you are not "we" and your oppinion doesn't matter when it comes to what's worth discussing and what isn't. get over yourself!
Don't insult people, you just seems angry because you know you are wrong.
If you compare Magsorc and magblade sustain without having the same set-up, how can you even say magsorc have better sustain ? This is just extremely stupid, sorry.
Your argument is that conjured ward is cheaper than Annulment, and because strife cost got brought in line with others spammable, conjured ward should have it's cost increase.
The all logic is dumb.
1 : Strife got nerfed for PvE reason where magNB is overperforming. Conjured ward is not overperforming in PvP or PvE.
2 : Magblade have the best magicka sustain in the entire game, so a nerf cost willl not impact them too much, where a nerf on conjured ward would brough the worse sustain build in the entire game (magsorc) not sustainable in PvP at all.
3. You can't compare conjured ward to other shields like you compare strife to other spammable. Conjured ward is the main sorc defense, and you need to compare it with the main NB defense : cloak.
4. Conjured ward is cheaper than Annulment because sorcerer sustain is worse than other class. Strife now have a similar cost to other spammable, but NB still the best class for sustain.
5. You want to nerf a class just because your class hwo is top dog got nerfed.
Edited by Aedaryl on May 19, 2018 12:51PM1 -
Roger_kun✭✭
Healer gives.Force Shock doesnt give You healing over time.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt activate Siphoning passives.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt give You ultimate for using.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt give You 8% more magicka when slotted
PvE doesn't have dunmers and nords. Stupid PvP players. Stop looking at the game purely as PvP
Edited by Roger_kun on May 19, 2018 1:19PM1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Healer gives.Force Shock doesnt give You healing over time.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt activate Siphoning passives.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt give You ultimate for using.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt give You 8% more magicka when slotted
PvE doesn't have dunmers and nords. Stupid PvP players. Stop looking at the game purely as PvP
Stupid PvE players.
The sustain on magicka NB is easy in PvE, and even by using force pulse, you can still sustain fine.
If you want the best damage/sustain ratio, take elemental weapon.
Strife got nerfed because NB is overperforming in PvE.
Anyway, Elemental weapon is the best choice for damage. Strife is the best choice for strong damage and good utility.1 -
Roger_kun✭✭
Stupid PvE players.
The sustain on magicka NB is easy in PvE, and even by using force pulse, you can still sustain fine.
If you want the best damage/sustain ratio, take elemental weapon.
Strife got nerfed because NB is overperforming in PvE.
Anyway, Elemental weapon is the best choice for damage. Strife is the best choice for strong damage and good utility.
Approve it.
Magicka sorc has more DPS then magblade WITHOUT pet. Magsorc can use heavy attacks, but if magblade will use it... Hello, drop damage.
99% magblades will lose DPS with strife changes.
Edited by Roger_kun on May 19, 2018 3:26PM0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Healer gives.Force Shock doesnt give You healing over time.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt activate Siphoning passives.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt give You ultimate for using.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt give You 8% more magicka when slotted
PvE doesn't have dunmers and nords. Stupid PvP players. Stop looking at the game purely as PvP
Stupid PvE players.
The sustain on magicka NB is easy in PvE, and even by using force pulse, you can still sustain fine.
If you want the best damage/sustain ratio, take elemental weapon.
Strife got nerfed because NB is overperforming in PvE.
Anyway, Elemental weapon is the best choice for damage. Strife is the best choice for strong damage and good utility.
In other words nightblades. All of you need to L2P. Learn To Pay. Elemental weapon is purposely the best spammable in the game and ZOS isn’t going to change that0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Healer gives.Force Shock doesnt give You healing over time.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt activate Siphoning passives.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt give You ultimate for using.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt give You 8% more magicka when slotted
PvE doesn't have dunmers and nords. Stupid PvP players. Stop looking at the game purely as PvP
Elemental Blockade isStrife is not enhanced by the passive race.
Elemental Blokade doesStrife does not activate the staff's passives.
Tank givesStrife does not increase its damage by 10% magic penetration.
PvE have mobs that are resistant against certain elemental dmg. Stupid players. Stop looking at the game if You have no idea about it.
Stupid PvE players.
The sustain on magicka NB is easy in PvE, and even by using force pulse, you can still sustain fine.
If you want the best damage/sustain ratio, take elemental weapon.
Strife got nerfed because NB is overperforming in PvE.
Anyway, Elemental weapon is the best choice for damage. Strife is the best choice for strong damage and good utility.
Approve it.
Magicka sorc has more DPS then magblade WITHOUT pet. Magsorc can use heavy attacks, but if magblade will use it... Hello, drop damage.
99% magblades will lose DPS with strife changes.
This only shows that You have no idea about PvE . Magicka nb have more DPS then sorc with or without pet. Magsorc can use heavy attacks but it'll be DPS loss compared to full light attack rotation same goes for mag nb. The thing is magicka sorc sooner or later will be forced to use heavy attacks and he'll have to do it when target is off ballanced otherwise it's huge DPS loss. Magicka nb simply dont have to use heavy attacks because of how cheap his skills are plus he have siphoning attacks.
Edited by Juhasow on May 19, 2018 4:40PM2 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Healer gives.Force Shock doesnt give You healing over time.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt activate Siphoning passives.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt give You ultimate for using.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt give You 8% more magicka when slotted
PvE doesn't have dunmers and nords. Stupid PvP players. Stop looking at the game purely as PvP
Oh man, so ult gen from Siphoning passive is nothing? 8% more magicka also will translate to more damage than percentage dependent penetration boost which in PvE is basically useless as most mobs and bosses will be debuffed to near 0 resists in a properly ran group.
And Crippling Grasp and Strife are from the same line. You can even back bar Crippling Grasp to get 8% magicka boost and 2 ult points when using it on cooldown on the back bar too. I am not sure what you are even on about. Lol in PvE, Strife heal over time keeps magicka NBs alive and sustain for a lot longer than any other shield abilities can. Please, don't tell me you are spamming Crippling Grasp because you think Strife is from different skill line.
Yeah yeah, sorc only had brief moment of shining when ult could be stacked to 1000 with niche Overload build. But guess what? It is not really a thing anymore. Without pet, Sorc DPS is lower than mNB in general. Don't even tell me what others tried to say about how weaving and stuff is a necessity only to mNBs. Because weaving is a mandatory for constant ultgen AND DPS. DPS of mNB might still be higher than other magicka builds even with this what you seem to describe as inferior skill that is Strife's cost increase. I mean, if it was that inferior, why use the obvious low DPS choice? Other classes sustained using Force Shock (2.7k with no real other utilities) and other 2.4k up spammables. So will you.Edited by IZZEFlameLash on May 20, 2018 3:22AMImperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The base damage of Strife (1749) and morphs (1803) is close to Force Pulse (3 x 579 = 1737) and more than twice of Elemental Weapon (739).
Strife is not enhanced by the passive race. Strife does not activate the staff's passives. Strife does not increase its damage by 10% magic penetration.
You really do not understand this?
Force Shock doesnt give You healing over time. Force Shock doesnt activate Siphoning passives. Force Shock doesnt give You ultimate for using. Force Shock doesnt give You 8% more magicka when slotted. Force Shock dmg can be reduced by certain race passives like Nords or Dunmers ones.
You really dont understand this ?
Do you not understand the healing overtime is sorta shoddy? The healing from Sweeps is better XDFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Healer gives.Force Shock doesnt give You healing over time.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt activate Siphoning passives.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt give You ultimate for using.
Crippling Grasp gives.Force Shock doesnt give You 8% more magicka when slotted
PvE doesn't have dunmers and nords. Stupid PvP players. Stop looking at the game purely as PvP
Stupid PvE players.
The sustain on magicka NB is easy in PvE, and even by using force pulse, you can still sustain fine.
If you want the best damage/sustain ratio, take elemental weapon.
Strife got nerfed because NB is overperforming in PvE.
Anyway, Elemental weapon is the best choice for damage. Strife is the best choice for strong damage and good utility.
In other words nightblades. All of you need to L2P. Learn To Pay. Elemental weapon is purposely the best spammable in the game and ZOS isn’t going to change that
I'm fine with Ele weapon as long as Ancient Knowledge gets "Updated" to the point where I have a reason to use the damned thingFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭The base damage of Strife (1749) and morphs (1803) is close to Force Pulse (3 x 579 = 1737) and more than twice of Elemental Weapon (739).
Strife is not enhanced by the passive race. Strife does not activate the staff's passives. Strife does not increase its damage by 10% magic penetration.
You really do not understand this?
Force Shock doesnt give You healing over time. Force Shock doesnt activate Siphoning passives. Force Shock doesnt give You ultimate for using. Force Shock doesnt give You 8% more magicka when slotted. Force Shock dmg can be reduced by certain race passives like Nords or Dunmers ones.
You really dont understand this ?
Do you not understand the healing overtime is sorta shoddy? The healing from Sweeps is better XD
Sweep heal is not any better than strife because for what it does, it costs 3k magicka and it needs to hit the grouped mobs to heal better. 1.8k magicka costing Strife HoT > 2.9k costing Sweep heal. And Sweep does not grant Minor Vitality. Or does more damage than Strife by itself without Burning Light. Which does not heal.Edited by IZZEFlameLash on May 20, 2018 3:26AMImperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »The base damage of Strife (1749) and morphs (1803) is close to Force Pulse (3 x 579 = 1737) and more than twice of Elemental Weapon (739).
Strife is not enhanced by the passive race. Strife does not activate the staff's passives. Strife does not increase its damage by 10% magic penetration.
You really do not understand this?
Force Shock doesnt give You healing over time. Force Shock doesnt activate Siphoning passives. Force Shock doesnt give You ultimate for using. Force Shock doesnt give You 8% more magicka when slotted. Force Shock dmg can be reduced by certain race passives like Nords or Dunmers ones.
You really dont understand this ?
Do you not understand the healing overtime is sorta shoddy? The healing from Sweeps is better XD
Sweep heal is not any better than strife because for what it does, it costs 3k magicka and it needs to hit the grouped mobs to heal better. 1.8k magicka costing Strife HoT > 2.9k costing Sweep heal. And Sweep does not grant Minor Vitality. Or does more damage than Strife by itself without Burning Light. Which does not heal.
If you wanna talk about cost:
Burning embers spam nets 4.5k healing per second and 6.5k DPS
Strife spam nets 2.5k healing per second and 9k DPS
Not sure about sweeps but the healing from sweeps is better because it's 40ish% of the damage not 25%
And sweeps costs 2.7k if you actually wear clothing. Or do you run around Cyrodiil Naked?Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Roger_kun✭✭This only shows that You have no idea about PvE . Magicka nb have more DPS then sorc with or without pet. Magsorc can use heavy attacks but it'll be DPS loss compared to full light attack rotation same goes for mag nb. The thing is magicka sorc sooner or later will be forced to use heavy attacks and he'll have to do it when target is off ballanced otherwise it's huge DPS loss. Magicka nb simply dont have to use heavy attacks because of how cheap his skills are plus he have siphoning attacks.
Are you dumb or pretend?
8% of the mana gives Crippling Grasp, which is on the same panel as the spam ability. If you replace it with Blockade, and Grasp move to the second panel, you will lose mana when using Force Pulse.
The blockade is strengthened by the racial abilities. I did not hear anything more stupid. ALL magicians use blockade. But the blockade is not a spam.
The blockade activates the staff's passives. Oh, only here its place - on the back panel, otherwise on the main panel there will be a loss of mana - siphon an ability to push? There is no Strife, instead of it a pulse is! You're contradicting yourself
The tank gives 10% penetrators. That's all in this phrase. Nothing, what is this punching plus with ANY buffs? Oh, did not you know?
All that you write shows that you do not play in PvE
Look at least DPS parses for magNB and magsorc in range builds. I do not argue, the meelee magNB is much stronger, but this is an ult problem, not a strife. Well, set problem too, I agree. The NB is weaker in the range0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The base damage of Strife (1749) and morphs (1803) is close to Force Pulse (3 x 579 = 1737) and more than twice of Elemental Weapon (739).
Strife is not enhanced by the passive race. Strife does not activate the staff's passives. Strife does not increase its damage by 10% magic penetration.
You really do not understand this?
Force Shock doesnt give You healing over time. Force Shock doesnt activate Siphoning passives. Force Shock doesnt give You ultimate for using. Force Shock doesnt give You 8% more magicka when slotted. Force Shock dmg can be reduced by certain race passives like Nords or Dunmers ones.
You really dont understand this ?
Do you not understand the healing overtime is sorta shoddy? The healing from Sweeps is better XD
LOL. Yeah jabs heal is so much better especially in range fights or LoS fights that Zenimax needed to buff it in Summerset because of how pathetic it is... Also You get 1st tick of healing from strife the moment You use it so it's kinda instant cast range heal+HoT. If that is shoddy then I dont know what You expect to be good a heal comparable to BoL when You cast Strife ?...Edited by Juhasow on May 20, 2018 8:51AM1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This only shows that You have no idea about PvE . Magicka nb have more DPS then sorc with or without pet. Magsorc can use heavy attacks but it'll be DPS loss compared to full light attack rotation same goes for mag nb. The thing is magicka sorc sooner or later will be forced to use heavy attacks and he'll have to do it when target is off ballanced otherwise it's huge DPS loss. Magicka nb simply dont have to use heavy attacks because of how cheap his skills are plus he have siphoning attacks.
Are you dumb or pretend?
8% of the mana gives Crippling Grasp, which is on the same panel as the spam ability. If you replace it with Blockade, and Grasp move to the second panel, you will lose mana when using Force Pulse.
The blockade is strengthened by the racial abilities. I did not hear anything more stupid. ALL magicians use blockade. But the blockade is not a spam.
The blockade activates the staff's passives. Oh, only here its place - on the back panel, otherwise on the main panel there will be a loss of mana - siphon an ability to push? There is no Strife, instead of it a pulse is! You're contradicting yourself
The tank gives 10% penetrators. That's all in this phrase. Nothing, what is this punching plus with ANY buffs? Oh, did not you know?
All that you write shows that you do not play in PvE
Look at least DPS parses for magNB and magsorc in range builds. I do not argue, the meelee magNB is much stronger, but this is an ult problem, not a strife. Well, set problem too, I agree. The NB is weaker in the range
I am neither dumb or pretend anything I am just showing You how stupid and childlish Your arguments are.
Considering we're talking about situation where You're using Strife as spammable it is the only source of SIphoning skill line passives on front bar since Crippling Grasp is on back bar then and Twisting path on front bar. Even on vMA even when You're running Force Pulse You still have Strife on front bar for HoT healing and Siphoning passives. This can be thing in Summerset where nb's will use Elemental Weapon and if offheal for group will be needed they'll slot Funnel Health on front bar.
Cripling Grasp is also not a spam yet You give it as example of Transfer passive activator where it is used only once per 8-9 seconds and passive can proc every 4 seconds so Strife is the only reliable source of activating that passive.
Tanks gives You enough penetration with Major Breach , Alkosh and Crusher enchantment to the point where 10% penetration from destro staff is simply useless because You are at penetration cap already. On vMA bosses and mobs have less resistances then in group content so most of the time this passive is also wasted also this is percentage passive so less resistances enemie have less penetration You get.
I play PvE quite often. I have all vet hard modes speed runs in this game done I dont think You do. I play in PvE with every class on magicka and stamina so please dont even try argument of me not participating in PvE enough because if anyone from us both is not PvEing enough it is You.
Fact that mag nb have meele ultimate doesnt make him instantly meele DD. If You have to come in meele once every 15-20 seconds but rest of the time You can do dmg from range You are still range DD. Also it may be shock for You but belive me using Soul Harvest is not mandatory for mag nb to keep high DPS , higher then other classes have. I was easily able to run with BSW and use destro ult while still keeping DPS higher then other mag builds. Mag nb beats all other classes in meele and in range not because of ult but because of sustain and dmg output from class abilities especially Impale and Merciless Resolve. Soul Harvest is just cherry on the top.
Edited by Juhasow on May 20, 2018 9:11AM1 -
Jerkling✭✭✭✭
i'm not insulting anyone and you have no idea what i'm feeling and this "you are just angry" argument is the cheapest how-to-argue-on-the-internet-for-dummies arguments there is for anyone who wants to claim instant superiority.Don't insult people, you just seems angry because you know you are wrong.
so you are what, mad? are you mad now? oh, you so mad! ...rediculous.
i'm not saying that anywhere. learn to read, pal.If you compare Magsorc and magblade sustain without having the same set-up, how can you even say magsorc have better sustain ? This is just extremely stupid, sorry.
that's not my argument. again, learn to read. and before you answer right away read the discussion 2 more times, pause and think.Your argument is that conjured ward is cheaper than Annulment, and because strife cost got brought in line with others spammable, conjured ward should have it's cost increase.
The all logic is dumb. [...]Edited by Jerkling on May 20, 2018 9:33AM0 -
Roger_kun✭✭I am neither dumb or pretend anything I am just showing You how stupid and childlish Your arguments are.
Considering we're talking about situation where You're using Strife as spammable it is the only source of SIphoning skill line passives on front bar since Crippling Grasp is on back bar then and Twisting path on front bar. Even on vMA even when You're running Force Pulse You still have Strife on front bar for HoT healing and Siphoning passives. This can be thing in Summerset where nb's will use Elemental Weapon and if offheal for group will be needed they'll slot Funnel Health on front bar.
Cripling Grasp is also not a spam yet You give it as example of Transfer passive activator where it is used only once per 8-9 seconds and passive can proc every 4 seconds so Strife is the only reliable source of activating that passive.
Tanks gives You enough penetration with Major Breach , Alkosh and Crusher enchantment to the point where 10% penetration from destro staff is simply useless because You are at penetration cap already. On vMA bosses and mobs have less resistances then in group content so most of the time this passive is also wasted also this is percentage passive so less resistances enemie have less penetration You get.
I play PvE quite often. I have all vet hard modes speed runs in this game done I dont think You do. I play in PvE with every class on magicka and stamina so please dont even try argument of me not participating in PvE enough because if anyone from us both is not PvEing enough it is You.
Fact that mag nb have meele ultimate doesnt make him instantly meele DD. If You have to come in meele once every 15-20 seconds but rest of the time You can do dmg from range You are still range DD. Also it may be shock for You but belive me using Soul Harvest is not mandatory for mag nb to keep high DPS , higher then other classes have. I was easily able to run with BSW and use destro ult while still keeping DPS higher then other mag builds. Mag nb beats all other classes in meele and in range not because of ult but because of sustain and dmg output from class abilities especially Impale and Merciless Resolve. Soul Harvest is just cherry on the top.
Crippling grasp is on FRONT bar, not back
Front bar: Impale, Strife, Crippling Grasp, Mercilless Resolve, Inner Light
Back bar: shield, Blockade, Twisting, Siphoning, Inner light
If you have it on the back, it does not mean that others have the same
Alkosh can not be used wherever it pleases. In addition, the force pulse penetration is stacked with him, too.
If you use meelee skills - you are meelee DD. It does not matter if you do meelee damage the boss once every 10 seconds or once a minute.
I'm close all vet HM trials too. I'm not PvP player, I do not argue, I do not understand anything in PvP. Maybe for PvP skills should be rebalanced. But if you leave the cost of the strife at the same level, the magNB will lose the DPS very much.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am neither dumb or pretend anything I am just showing You how stupid and childlish Your arguments are.
Considering we're talking about situation where You're using Strife as spammable it is the only source of SIphoning skill line passives on front bar since Crippling Grasp is on back bar then and Twisting path on front bar. Even on vMA even when You're running Force Pulse You still have Strife on front bar for HoT healing and Siphoning passives. This can be thing in Summerset where nb's will use Elemental Weapon and if offheal for group will be needed they'll slot Funnel Health on front bar.
Cripling Grasp is also not a spam yet You give it as example of Transfer passive activator where it is used only once per 8-9 seconds and passive can proc every 4 seconds so Strife is the only reliable source of activating that passive.
Tanks gives You enough penetration with Major Breach , Alkosh and Crusher enchantment to the point where 10% penetration from destro staff is simply useless because You are at penetration cap already. On vMA bosses and mobs have less resistances then in group content so most of the time this passive is also wasted also this is percentage passive so less resistances enemie have less penetration You get.
I play PvE quite often. I have all vet hard modes speed runs in this game done I dont think You do. I play in PvE with every class on magicka and stamina so please dont even try argument of me not participating in PvE enough because if anyone from us both is not PvEing enough it is You.
Fact that mag nb have meele ultimate doesnt make him instantly meele DD. If You have to come in meele once every 15-20 seconds but rest of the time You can do dmg from range You are still range DD. Also it may be shock for You but belive me using Soul Harvest is not mandatory for mag nb to keep high DPS , higher then other classes have. I was easily able to run with BSW and use destro ult while still keeping DPS higher then other mag builds. Mag nb beats all other classes in meele and in range not because of ult but because of sustain and dmg output from class abilities especially Impale and Merciless Resolve. Soul Harvest is just cherry on the top.
Crippling grasp is on FRONT bar, not back
Front bar: Impale, Strife, Crippling Grasp, Mercilless Resolve, Inner Light
Back bar: shield, Blockade, Twisting, Siphoning, Inner light
If you have it on the back, it does not mean that others have the same
Alkosh can not be used wherever it pleases. In addition, the force pulse penetration is stacked with him, too.
If you use meelee skills - you are meelee DD. It does not matter if you do meelee damage the boss once every 10 seconds or once a minute.
I'm close all vet HM trials too. I'm not PvP player, I do not argue, I do not understand anything in PvP. Maybe for PvP skills should be rebalanced. But if you leave the cost of the strife at the same level, the magNB will lose the DPS very much.
Cripling Graps on front bar is Your bad decision but for maximazing DPS it shouldnt be there if You already have Siphoning ability on front bar.
Having Cripling on front bar is DPS and sustain loss and it's only used by less experienced players or people who dont understand basic math behind it. If You use twisting path which lasts 11 seconds together with blockade which lasts 8 seconds it's DPS loss because You refresh Twisting Path too early. If You have both on same bar after 30 seconds of fight You'll use 4x blockade and 4x twisting since You'll use both around seconds number 0,8,16,24. If You would have Twisting Path on front bar and You used it every 11 seconds after 30 seconds You would use it around seconds number 0,11,22 which is 3 times not 4. You still have the same DPS from Twisting Path since You had 100% uptime on it but You saved magicka because of 1 less cast and You were able to cast 1 additional ability instead which is DPS gain. After 60 seconds it'll be 2 casts saved , after 90 seconds 3 casts etc. So longer the fight bigger the profit. On the other hand Cripling Grasp times perfectly with Blockade on back bar since both have same timers so you loose nothing. Always if You have some siphoning ability on front bar You should use Crippling on back bar.
Alkosh for magicka users is not even needed to to be close to penetration cap. 4,9k light armor + 5,3k major breach + 1,3k minor breach + 2,2k crusher + ~3k CP = 16,7k. Cap is 18,2k so with Alkosh You actually overpenetrate. That 10% additional penetration from destro passive is laughable in PvE but You cant know that since You havnt tested it You've just seen the descrption and think it's strong.
Lol that flawless logic with definition of meele. I wont argue here since it's Your opinion and Your own imaginary world that You're meele if You spend 5% of fight in meele. I think meele mag DD's like templar or dk would feel offended by that lol. But like I said You dont even have to use Soul Harvest to be top magicka DD so You can be range DD in Your definition and still be on top.
Mag nb DPS will go up in this update in PvE compared to Dragon Bones. It'll be still the highest between all magicka characters because to be fair mag nb got not enough nerfs. Strife cost change is nothing painfull since we'll have new ability from psijic order skill line that will replace it and even if You'll still have Strife fact that 2 handed weapons will count as 2 items is bigger DPS increase then Strife change is DPS loss. Magicka nb dominates in new trial same as he dominated in Dragon Bones update in terms of DPS and sustain between all magicka builds and there is nothing bad zenimax is doing something to bring it closer to other classes but the thing is they are not doing enough and Strife nerf is nothing without further nerfs for skills like Impale or Merciless Resolve or buffs for other classes.
You proved beyond any doubt that You're unexperienced player or atleast You do not fully understand game mechanics so I dont see any point for further discussion.Edited by Juhasow on May 20, 2018 12:00PM3 -
Roger_kun✭✭Cripling Graps on front bar is Your bad decision but for maximazing DPS it shouldnt be there if You already have Siphoning ability on front bar.
Having Cripling on front bar is DPS and sustain loss and it's only used by less experienced players or people who dont understand basic math behind it. If You use twisting path which lasts 11 seconds together with blockade which lasts 8 seconds it's DPS loss because You refresh Twisting Path too early. If You have both on same bar after 30 seconds of fight You'll use 4x blockade and 4x twisting since You'll use both around seconds number 0,8,16,24. If You would have Twisting Path on front bar and You used it every 11 seconds after 30 seconds You would use it around seconds number 0,11,22 which is 3 times not 4. You still have the same DPS from Twisting Path since You had 100% uptime on it but You saved magicka because of 1 less cast and You were able to cast 1 additional ability instead which is DPS gain. After 60 seconds it'll be 2 casts saved , after 90 seconds 3 casts etc. So longer the fight bigger the profit. On the other hand Cripling Grasp times perfectly with Blockade on back bar since both have same timers so you loose nothing. Always if You have some siphoning ability on front bar You should use Crippling on back bar.
Alkosh for magicka users is not even needed to to be close to penetration cap. 4,9k light armor + 5,3k major breach + 1,3k minor breach + 2,2k crusher + ~3k CP = 16,7k. Cap is 18,2k so with Alkosh You actually overpenetrate. That 10% additional penetration from destro passive is laughable in PvE but You cant know that since You havnt tested it You've just seen the descrption and think it's strong.
Lol that flawless logic with definition of meele. I wont argue here since it's Your opinion and Your own imaginary world that You're meele if You spend 5% of fight in meele. I think meele mag DD's like templar or dk would feel offended by that lol. But like I said You dont even have to use Soul Harvest to be top magicka DD so You can be range DD in Your definition and still be on top.
Mag nb DPS will go up in this update in PvE compared to Dragon Bones. It'll be still the highest between all magicka characters because to be fair mag nb got not enough nerfs. Strife cost change is nothing painfull since we'll have new ability from psijic order skill line that will replace it and even if You'll still have Strife fact that 2 handed weapons will count as 2 items is bigger DPS increase then Strife change is DPS loss. Magicka nb dominates in new trial same as he dominated in Dragon Bones update in terms of DPS and sustain between all magicka builds and there is nothing bad zenimax is doing something to bring it closer to other classes but the thing is they are not doing enough and Strife nerf is nothing without further nerfs for skills like Impale or Merciless Resolve or buffs for other classes.
You proved beyond any doubt that You're unexperienced player or atleast You do not fully understand game mechanics so I dont see any point for further discussion.
Ohh.
Let me tell you why you can not do as you describe.
Yes, Twisting Pas has an uptime of 11 seconds and its damage is lost. But you do not get confused in the rotation in difficult raids - there is always the confidence that the rotation will be maintained. Are you ready to play the piano for 500 DPS? It's funny.
About the penetration is even funnier. When did you personally watch the templar's stamina in Trials for the last time? But this is the debuff that you named the minor breach gives it!
I agree, there is no point in continuing. You are not a magNB, you do not understand the mechanics of the game for it in the top content, and not in the skeleton rotation.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cripling Graps on front bar is Your bad decision but for maximazing DPS it shouldnt be there if You already have Siphoning ability on front bar.
Having Cripling on front bar is DPS and sustain loss and it's only used by less experienced players or people who dont understand basic math behind it. If You use twisting path which lasts 11 seconds together with blockade which lasts 8 seconds it's DPS loss because You refresh Twisting Path too early. If You have both on same bar after 30 seconds of fight You'll use 4x blockade and 4x twisting since You'll use both around seconds number 0,8,16,24. If You would have Twisting Path on front bar and You used it every 11 seconds after 30 seconds You would use it around seconds number 0,11,22 which is 3 times not 4. You still have the same DPS from Twisting Path since You had 100% uptime on it but You saved magicka because of 1 less cast and You were able to cast 1 additional ability instead which is DPS gain. After 60 seconds it'll be 2 casts saved , after 90 seconds 3 casts etc. So longer the fight bigger the profit. On the other hand Cripling Grasp times perfectly with Blockade on back bar since both have same timers so you loose nothing. Always if You have some siphoning ability on front bar You should use Crippling on back bar.
Alkosh for magicka users is not even needed to to be close to penetration cap. 4,9k light armor + 5,3k major breach + 1,3k minor breach + 2,2k crusher + ~3k CP = 16,7k. Cap is 18,2k so with Alkosh You actually overpenetrate. That 10% additional penetration from destro passive is laughable in PvE but You cant know that since You havnt tested it You've just seen the descrption and think it's strong.
Lol that flawless logic with definition of meele. I wont argue here since it's Your opinion and Your own imaginary world that You're meele if You spend 5% of fight in meele. I think meele mag DD's like templar or dk would feel offended by that lol. But like I said You dont even have to use Soul Harvest to be top magicka DD so You can be range DD in Your definition and still be on top.
Mag nb DPS will go up in this update in PvE compared to Dragon Bones. It'll be still the highest between all magicka characters because to be fair mag nb got not enough nerfs. Strife cost change is nothing painfull since we'll have new ability from psijic order skill line that will replace it and even if You'll still have Strife fact that 2 handed weapons will count as 2 items is bigger DPS increase then Strife change is DPS loss. Magicka nb dominates in new trial same as he dominated in Dragon Bones update in terms of DPS and sustain between all magicka builds and there is nothing bad zenimax is doing something to bring it closer to other classes but the thing is they are not doing enough and Strife nerf is nothing without further nerfs for skills like Impale or Merciless Resolve or buffs for other classes.
You proved beyond any doubt that You're unexperienced player or atleast You do not fully understand game mechanics so I dont see any point for further discussion.
Ohh.
Let me tell you why you can not do as you describe.
Yes, Twisting Pas has an uptime of 11 seconds and its damage is lost. But you do not get confused in the rotation in difficult raids - there is always the confidence that the rotation will be maintained. Are you ready to play the piano for 500 DPS? It's funny.
About the penetration is even funnier. When did you personally watch the templar's stamina in Trials for the last time? But this is the debuff that you named the minor breach gives it!
I agree, there is no point in continuing. You are not a magNB, you do not understand the mechanics of the game for it in the top content, and not in the skeleton rotation.
Lol if You are not using certain things because it's too confusing for You then it's totally on You. It's You decision to weaken yourself and developer have no duty to make You feel better because You cant manage harder rotation. It looks right now like You want to say they shouldnt nerf Strife because You are not good enough to adapt and You dont care it was OP but it was good for You.
As for templar goes who said it has to be stamina templar that will apply power of the light ? If there is no stamplar one of the healers can use power of the light or in most desperate move someone can just use poison that that applies minor penetration debuff. Also I see stamplar pretty often on trials where people want to have fully optimized team . Sometiems I am running on stamplar myself.
I play mag nb , it's quite possible I spended more time on mag nb then You I even dare to say I could out DPS You in every scenario since certain things are "too confusing" for You. Since I have all hard modes done on mag nb and You dont I think I understand "top content" slightly better then You , since I also played it on every class which can suggest I also have slightly wider perspective and I can look at things more objectively instead of QQing because my main got nerf.
Basicly with every additional post You're proving that Your concerns about Strife nerf have nothing to do with objective look at balance but are simply Your selfish look at Your main class You dont want to be stripped out of goodies since it's problematic for You to play without beeing carried by broken OP stuff.Edited by Juhasow on May 20, 2018 5:16PM1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭How has this thread not been closed? It serves no purpose and has been nothing but a stupid bun-fight from start to finish.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.2 -
amir412✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wow. Ops name is really fitting here.- Strife: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 2700 Magicka from 1891 Magicka.
This change was made to put the Strife ability cost more in line with other similar types of abilities, such as Force Shock.- Conjured Ward: Increased the strength of the damage shield summoned by this ability and its morphs by approximately 10%.
- Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Decreased this morph’s bonus to your own damage shield to 20% from 30%.
Combined with the change to the base ability, Conjured Ward, there is no net change to the strength of the shield that Hardened Ward provides.
why is it that Strife needs to be more in line with similar types of abilities while Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward) is still allowed to reign supreme as the best Damage Shield ability in the game? there have neither been changes to it's strength nor to its super low cost.
these values are calculated based on values given by uesp.net, i used 50,000 (hp & magicka) as a reference. values in ( ) show the shield strength with 100 points in Bastion. please also note that the shield strength of Blazing Shield only shows the minimum shield strength of this ability.
as you can see, Hardened Ward, along with Dampen Magic, has by far the highest shield strength, yet it is, and will stay, also by far the cheapest ability.
Why is cloak still allowed to reign supreme over detect invis pots.
Why is elude still allowed to reign supreme over shuffle - YOU`RE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO SLOT THE LATTER ANYMORE on anything but medium.
Why is incap still allowed to reigh supreme over other singletarget ultimates.
Why does NB get so many skills that don´t even have a counterpart everyone can use with similar function?
NERF NERF NERF
DAMN SON, Those points...
PC | EU | AD |Stam Dk named "-Saidden"| 1700 CP|"..A world without fire. Ashen one, is this truly thy wish?.."0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe because it's the only defensive ability magicka sorc has, while other classes have a few more. So it should be somewhat potent. Most Sorcerers use empowered ward anyway, which is the weakest magicka shield at the moment.
Only? You must be kidding.
It is the best, yeah, but not the onlySarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is no validity to your question in my opinion.
Hardened Ward: Strong shield, no secondary effect
Dampen Magic: Slightly stronger shield, no secondary effect
Blazing Shield: Weaker shield, but damages players that hit it
Bone Shield: Weaker Shield but group synergy, therefore the cost
Obsidian Shield: Weaker Shield, but either grants Major Mending or damages
Healing Ward: Weaker shield, but grants a small initial heal and a strong heal after the shield expires
Strife: Damage + HoT or Minor Vitality
Force Pulse: Damage + chance to proc status effects + AoE damage to players that already have an active status effect
Elemental Weapon: Damage + guaranteed status effect proc
As for the shields, Dampen Magic is the strongest shield. It costs 1k magicka more. You can of course argue that the difference in shield strength is so small that the cost of Hardened Ward would have to be in the same region than Dampen Magic. It's quite simple why the answer can't be to adjust the cost of Hardened Ward: noCP PvP. In noCP you have no Bastion, and you look at a typical 7k Hardened Ward on a build with 40k max mag (no CP magicka bonus available there too). If you increase the cost to more than 4k max magicka the strain on the already bad Sorc sustain would be too much. Therefore, you can only argue that Dampen Magic should be cheaper if anything.
Now, to the actual point of your post. Strife.
The base damage of Strife (1749) and morphs (1803) is close to Force Pulse (3 x 579 = 1737) and more than twice of Elemental Weapon (739). Yet Strife and morphs have a base cost of 1803 magicka whereas Force Pulse and Elemental Weapon cost 2700 base. That's not even touching the secondary effects. An adjustment to Strife is justified already if you only look on the damage values.
Whether an increase to 2700 is too much for NB sustain and shouldn't be done therefore is an entirely different argument than saying Strife shouldn't be changed because Hardened Ward remains as is, or Hardened Ward should be adjusted because Strife is.
Imho, the argument should be in line with strife as a HoT rather than strife as a dmg skill. From that PoV, Strife should be in line with Regeneration. If that means decrease it's dmg a little for a reduced cost, be it.
Pure mageblade doesn't have a reliable burst heal (it's supposed that now new cloak should help, but it requires a lot of health to make it appealing), and slotting a resto skill on a destro bar is not possible.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique2
