Strife changes vs. Conjured Ward changes

Jerkling

• Strife: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 2700 Magicka from 1891 Magicka.

Developer Comment:
This change was made to put the Strife ability cost more in line with other similar types of abilities, such as Force Shock.

• Conjured Ward: Increased the strength of the damage shield summoned by this ability and its morphs by approximately 10%.
• Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Decreased this morph’s bonus to your own damage shield to 20% from 30%.

Developer Comment:
Combined with the change to the base ability, Conjured Ward, there is no net change to the strength of the shield that Hardened Ward provides.

why is it that Strife needs to be more in line with similar types of abilities while Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward) is still allowed to reign supreme as the best Damage Shield ability in the game? there have neither been changes to it's strength nor to its super low cost.




these values are calculated based on values given by uesp.net, i used 50,000 (hp & magicka) as a reference. values in ( ) show the shield strength with 100 points in Bastion. please also note that the shield strength of Blazing Shield only shows the minimum shield strength of this ability.

as you can see, Hardened Ward, along with Dampen Magic, has by far the highest shield strength, yet it is, and will stay, also by far the cheapest ability.

Joy_Division

Someone really hates sorcerers.

WreckfulAbandon

Getting thru shields has been a L2P issue for quite some time now, even more so when light attack changes go live.

Minalan

We have our first ‘nerf sorc’ Post.

Super low cost on hardened ward... lol

ezio45

Jerkling wrote: »

• Strife: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 2700 Magicka from 1891 Magicka.

Developer Comment:
This change was made to put the Strife ability cost more in line with other similar types of abilities, such as Force Shock.

• Conjured Ward: Increased the strength of the damage shield summoned by this ability and its morphs by approximately 10%.
• Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Decreased this morph’s bonus to your own damage shield to 20% from 30%.

Developer Comment:
Combined with the change to the base ability, Conjured Ward, there is no net change to the strength of the shield that Hardened Ward provides.

why is it that Strife needs to be more in line with similar types of abilities while Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward) is still allowed to reign supreme as the best Damage Shield ability in the game? there have neither been changes to it's strength nor to its super low cost.




these values are calculated based on values given by uesp.net, i used 50,000 (hp & magicka) as a reference. values in ( ) show the shield strength with 100 points in Bastion. please also note that the shield strength of Blazing Shield only shows the minimum shield strength of this ability.

as you can see, Hardened Ward, along with Dampen Magic, has by far the highest shield strength, yet it is, and will stay, also by far the cheapest ability.

dont scream nerf other classes if you really want your class buffed.

Berenhir

ezio45 wrote: »

Jerkling wrote: »

• Strife: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 2700 Magicka from 1891 Magicka.

Developer Comment:
This change was made to put the Strife ability cost more in line with other similar types of abilities, such as Force Shock.

• Conjured Ward: Increased the strength of the damage shield summoned by this ability and its morphs by approximately 10%.
• Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Decreased this morph’s bonus to your own damage shield to 20% from 30%.

Developer Comment:
Combined with the change to the base ability, Conjured Ward, there is no net change to the strength of the shield that Hardened Ward provides.

why is it that Strife needs to be more in line with similar types of abilities while Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward) is still allowed to reign supreme as the best Damage Shield ability in the game? there have neither been changes to it's strength nor to its super low cost.




these values are calculated based on values given by uesp.net, i used 50,000 (hp & magicka) as a reference. values in ( ) show the shield strength with 100 points in Bastion. please also note that the shield strength of Blazing Shield only shows the minimum shield strength of this ability.

as you can see, Hardened Ward, along with Dampen Magic, has by far the highest shield strength, yet it is, and will stay, also by far the cheapest ability.

dont scream nerf other classes if you really want your class buffed.

No, do it. Let the hate flow through you. Become a true Zos-Lord, nerf and hate!

arkansas_ESO

Jerkling wrote: »

why is it that Strife needs to be more in line with similar types of abilities while Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward) is still allowed to reign supreme as the best Damage Shield ability in the game?

Most of the changes this patch were made with PVE in mind, including this one. There's no need for sorc's Ward to get a nerf from a purely PVE perspective, so they didn't get one.

Oakmontowls_ESO

To be fair it is odd that the best ward is also the cheapest ward. This isn't to say that hardened ward needs a cost increase. It is just inconsistent with how ZoS has balanced other class skills with comparable other skills.

Minalan

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

To be fair it is odd that the best ward is also the cheapest ward. This isn't to say that hardened ward needs a cost increase. It is just inconsistent with how ZoS has balanced other class skills with comparable other skills.

It also used to last a full twenty seconds and it was twice as strong for the same price.

It’s all a matter of perspective. Shields also don’t mitigate CC’s, stuns, knockbacks, knockdowns, or off balance.

NyassaV

Honestly Conjured is W/E. It's the magicka return from Harness thats over preforming

Derra

Wow. Ops name is really fitting here.

Jerkling wrote: »

• Strife: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 2700 Magicka from 1891 Magicka.

Developer Comment:
This change was made to put the Strife ability cost more in line with other similar types of abilities, such as Force Shock.

• Conjured Ward: Increased the strength of the damage shield summoned by this ability and its morphs by approximately 10%.
• Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Decreased this morph’s bonus to your own damage shield to 20% from 30%.

Developer Comment:
Combined with the change to the base ability, Conjured Ward, there is no net change to the strength of the shield that Hardened Ward provides.

why is it that Strife needs to be more in line with similar types of abilities while Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward) is still allowed to reign supreme as the best Damage Shield ability in the game? there have neither been changes to it's strength nor to its super low cost.




these values are calculated based on values given by uesp.net, i used 50,000 (hp & magicka) as a reference. values in ( ) show the shield strength with 100 points in Bastion. please also note that the shield strength of Blazing Shield only shows the minimum shield strength of this ability.

as you can see, Hardened Ward, along with Dampen Magic, has by far the highest shield strength, yet it is, and will stay, also by far the cheapest ability.

Why is cloak still allowed to reign supreme over detect invis pots.
Why is elude still allowed to reign supreme over shuffle - YOU`RE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO SLOT THE LATTER ANYMORE on anything but medium.
Why is incap still allowed to reigh supreme over other singletarget ultimates.
Why does NB get so many skills that don´t even have a counterpart everyone can use with similar function?
NERF NERF NERF

NyassaV

Derra wrote: »

Wow. Ops name is really fitting here.

Jerkling wrote: »

• Strife: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 2700 Magicka from 1891 Magicka.

Developer Comment:
This change was made to put the Strife ability cost more in line with other similar types of abilities, such as Force Shock.

• Conjured Ward: Increased the strength of the damage shield summoned by this ability and its morphs by approximately 10%.
• Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Decreased this morph’s bonus to your own damage shield to 20% from 30%.

Developer Comment:
Combined with the change to the base ability, Conjured Ward, there is no net change to the strength of the shield that Hardened Ward provides.

why is it that Strife needs to be more in line with similar types of abilities while Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward) is still allowed to reign supreme as the best Damage Shield ability in the game? there have neither been changes to it's strength nor to its super low cost.




these values are calculated based on values given by uesp.net, i used 50,000 (hp & magicka) as a reference. values in ( ) show the shield strength with 100 points in Bastion. please also note that the shield strength of Blazing Shield only shows the minimum shield strength of this ability.

as you can see, Hardened Ward, along with Dampen Magic, has by far the highest shield strength, yet it is, and will stay, also by far the cheapest ability.

Why is cloak still allowed to reign supreme over detect pots.
Why is elude still allowed to reign supreme over shuffle - YOU`RE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO SLOT THE LATTER ANYMORE on anything but medium.
Why is incap still allowed to reigh supreme over other singletarget ultimates.
Why does NB get so many skills that don´t even have a counterpart everyone can use with similar function?
NERF NERF NERF

Until they give detect pots a visual cue they just need to remove that stuff. Magelight is enough and flare is cheaper than strife

Derra

NyassaV wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Wow. Ops name is really fitting here.

Jerkling wrote: »

• Strife: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 2700 Magicka from 1891 Magicka.

Developer Comment:
This change was made to put the Strife ability cost more in line with other similar types of abilities, such as Force Shock.

• Conjured Ward: Increased the strength of the damage shield summoned by this ability and its morphs by approximately 10%.
• Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Decreased this morph’s bonus to your own damage shield to 20% from 30%.

Developer Comment:
Combined with the change to the base ability, Conjured Ward, there is no net change to the strength of the shield that Hardened Ward provides.

why is it that Strife needs to be more in line with similar types of abilities while Hardened Ward (Conjured Ward) is still allowed to reign supreme as the best Damage Shield ability in the game? there have neither been changes to it's strength nor to its super low cost.




these values are calculated based on values given by uesp.net, i used 50,000 (hp & magicka) as a reference. values in ( ) show the shield strength with 100 points in Bastion. please also note that the shield strength of Blazing Shield only shows the minimum shield strength of this ability.

as you can see, Hardened Ward, along with Dampen Magic, has by far the highest shield strength, yet it is, and will stay, also by far the cheapest ability.

Why is cloak still allowed to reign supreme over detect pots.
Why is elude still allowed to reign supreme over shuffle - YOU`RE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO SLOT THE LATTER ANYMORE on anything but medium.
Why is incap still allowed to reigh supreme over other singletarget ultimates.
Why does NB get so many skills that don´t even have a counterpart everyone can use with similar function?
NERF NERF NERF

Until they give detect pots a visual cue they just need to remove that stuff. Magelight is enough and flare is cheaper than strife

Oh fek i meant invisibility pots - whoops.

Juhasow

This update proved beyond any doubt that nb players have some serious issues with balance if it touches them. What will happen when there will be update that will really balance this class ? They'll start protest with banners under Zenimax headquaters ?

Derra

Juhasow wrote: »

This update proved beyond any doubt that nb players have some serious issues with balance if it touches them. What will happen when there will be update that will really balance this class ? They'll start protest with banners under Zenimax headquaters ?

NBs have a point on strife though - the only logical reason for ZOS to touch strife is to make imbue weapon more appealing in comparison (aka BIS) to force anyone looking for 100% pve performance to buy the addon.

Imho

IZZEFlameLash

Sorcs will gladly give away shield if you give them your cloak.

Juhasow

Derra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

This update proved beyond any doubt that nb players have some serious issues with balance if it touches them. What will happen when there will be update that will really balance this class ? They'll start protest with banners under Zenimax headquaters ?

NBs have a point on strife though - the only logical reason for ZOS to touch strife is to make imbue weapon more appealing in comparison (aka BIS) to force anyone looking for 100% pve performance to buy the addon.

Imho

So You're saying everything was ok with current state of Strife in PvE compared to other magicka spammables ? Seriously the amount of people that didnt see that change coming is staggering. With or without new abilitiy to replace Strife it was obvious at some point it'll be nerfed. Was it proper nerf is different story but lets not make it suprising that the nerf occured or lets not play stupid it wasnt needed.

Feanor

The obsession with the strife cost change is getting ridiculous.

WuffyCerulei

Gonna say it. Learn to counter sorcs.

WuffyCerulei

Feanor wrote: »

The obsession with the strife cost change is getting ridiculous.

No kidding, considering magblades already have amazing sustain. The change shouldn't affect them that much.

Derra

Juhasow wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

This update proved beyond any doubt that nb players have some serious issues with balance if it touches them. What will happen when there will be update that will really balance this class ? They'll start protest with banners under Zenimax headquaters ?

NBs have a point on strife though - the only logical reason for ZOS to touch strife is to make imbue weapon more appealing in comparison (aka BIS) to force anyone looking for 100% pve performance to buy the addon.

Imho

So You're saying everything was ok with current state of Strife in PvE compared to other magicka spammables ? Seriously the amount of people that didnt see that change coming is staggering. With or without new abilitie to replace Strife it was obvious at some point it'll be nerfed. Was it proper nerf is different story but lets not make it suprising that the nerf occured or lets not play stupid it wasnt needed.

By that logic we´ll see adjustments to killers blade next. Then they´ll adress grim focus. Those two are greatly overperforming on a dmg/cost ratio aswell.

I can see why strife was nerfed - and i think anyone approaching the subject with understanding of basic math can.
I don´t agree with the severity of the nerf - nor do i think it adressed the core issues that make NBs perform better than other magica classes.

So in the end the only thing it achieved was pushing pve towards more uniformity and robbing the NB class of a defining skill because as it stands strife lost that feature. Without achieving anything "positive" in terms of pve balance. NB is still better than the other classes. Oh well.

Beardimus

Wow.

Just wow, a Blade complaining about Sorc wards. Hilarious.

Please tell me you only play PvE or something, as if its PvP that's kinda funny.

Feanor

@Derra

I don’t think damage to cost ratio or anything of the more complicated explanations was the driving issue. It is as you said - imbue weapons looks like a more attractive alternative if Strife costs more. Gotta sell the chapter.

When I first read the topic title I thought it was about how one Swallow Soul cast and a light attack can obliterate Hardened Ward in noCP. It turned out to be a nerf Sorc post. The forums never disappoint.

xericdx

Comparing shields by only taking into account the shield size is either very biased or done with no knowledge about skills, sorry. Harden is the only shield without additional effects (damage for blazing, synergy for bones, magika returns for dampen, etc.).
With this kind of comments then we wonder why zos don't listen to the community....

Vaoh

Someone hates Sorc so much they compare Strife toooooo...... Conjured Ward ...

I might have seen it all now

Vaoh

Feanor wrote: »

@Derra

I don’t think damage to cost ratio or anything of the more complicated explanations was the driving issue. It is as you said - imbue weapons looks like a more attractive alternative if Strife costs more. Gotta sell the chapter.

When I first read the topic title I thought it was about how one Swallow Soul cast and a light attack can obliterate Hardened Ward in noCP. It turned out to be a nerf Sorc post. The forums never disappoint.

Strife is still a powerful offheal. Ele Weapon may be a tiny bit more damage, but it doesn’t make it outright better by any means. The offheals from Strife are incredibly good.

Juhasow

Derra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

This update proved beyond any doubt that nb players have some serious issues with balance if it touches them. What will happen when there will be update that will really balance this class ? They'll start protest with banners under Zenimax headquaters ?

NBs have a point on strife though - the only logical reason for ZOS to touch strife is to make imbue weapon more appealing in comparison (aka BIS) to force anyone looking for 100% pve performance to buy the addon.

Imho

So You're saying everything was ok with current state of Strife in PvE compared to other magicka spammables ? Seriously the amount of people that didnt see that change coming is staggering. With or without new abilitie to replace Strife it was obvious at some point it'll be nerfed. Was it proper nerf is different story but lets not make it suprising that the nerf occured or lets not play stupid it wasnt needed.

By that logic we´ll see adjustments to killers blade next. Then they´ll adress grim focus. Those two are greatly overperforming on a dmg/cost ratio aswell.

I can see why strife was nerfed - and i think anyone approaching the subject with understanding of basic math can.
I don´t agree with the severity of the nerf - nor do i think it adressed the core issues that make NBs perform better than other magica classes.

So in the end the only thing it achieved was pushing pve towards more uniformity and robbing the NB class of a defining skill because as it stands strife lost that feature. Without achieving anything "positive" in terms of pve balance. NB is still better than the other classes. Oh well.

I see nothing bad in adjusting Assasin's Blade and Grim Focus also , in later updates. Both abilities are overperforming atm. It'll be little bit funny to see all nb's tears if it'll happen.

Yes Strife change is not adressing main issues of nb performing better then other magicka classes in PvE but nonetheless change to Strife was needed since it was not only dmg but also survival ability. Right now in content where nb offheal will be needed they'll have to atleast make some adjustments not just run the same rotation and setup they've been running all the time.

Dracane

Maybe because it's the only defensive ability magicka sorc has, while other classes have a few more. So it should be somewhat potent. Most Sorcerers use empowered ward anyway, which is the weakest magicka shield at the moment.

Septimus_Magna

You should compare Empowered Ward vs Harness Magicka (cost effective shield) and Hardened Ward vs Dampen Magic (max shield value). All classes have access to Harness and Dampen so the advantage that sorcs have is relatively small.

Sorcs have very poor self-heals so as a sorc main I would gladly trade Conjure Ward for Strife! I would just slot Harness and enjoy a class spammable that heals.

The Strife nerf isnt so bad, a spammable that heals and generates ult can still be useful.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Sorcs will gladly give away shield if you give them your cloak.

Clearly, you play neither sorc nor NB.

IZZEFlameLash

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Sorcs will gladly give away shield if you give them your cloak.

Clearly, you play neither sorc nor NB.

Clearly you are assuming wrongly. I have put a fair amount of play time in both classes. Tell me why a sorc wouldn't give up shield for cloak then? The cloak makes things miss, suppresses DoT, a morph guarantees crit. Shield does nothing other than it is basically another layer of health for 3~4k magicka(depending on wearing Light or Heavy) which no one has trouble chewing through now.

Strife cost increase is not the end of mNBs. Period. If non-NBs can sustain force shock and its morphs, so will NBs. Now NBs actually have to think about sustain a bit more. It was ridiculous how low sustain my mNB can have and yet sustain just fine with strife in pvp and pve. Where as my sorc would've seen drastic depletion of magicka.