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Strife changes vs. Conjured Ward changes
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Epicasballs✭✭✭✭Lowering the cost of other skills would have made more sense. As a nightblade I use Force Pulse more than Funnel alot of the time because it is slightly more damage and the animation is easier to weave. Between Siphoning Attacks, Orbs and Witchmothers sustain is still perfectly fine using Force Pulse or Crushing Shock. Nightblades are king DPS right now because they seldom have to heavy attack regardless of what skill they use as their spam ability. Lowering the cost of other spam skills would have brought other classes more in line with NB DPS. Nightblades will still reign supreme in Summerset though.
Buff, don't nerf. Buff.
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arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Magblades weren’t hit quite as hard as the rest of us by Morrowind sustain changes. So they fixed that.
Welcome to the club-house with the rest of us! Take a sustain glyph or two and heavy attack once in a while and you’ll be okay.
Cool. Do I now get a cheap second shield to stack with my Harness and Curse to make up for the damage I lose by building for sustain?
Trade you hardened ward for cloak, and curse for merciless!
We all have access to the pay to win goodies next patch.
Cloak isn't comparable to Hardened, it's comparable to Ball of Lightning. Merciless is comparable to frags. So where's my curse and hardened?ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/170 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »Sorcs have very poor self-heals
Really? Here I was thinking Critical/Power Surge and Dark Deal/Conversion were really good. I'm glad you set me on the right path though!
Thanks!
Crit Surge works, but it’s not so good without a class DOT, which is why many of us would rather have a DOT put on rune cage instead of a flat 4K.
Healing up with dark deal? Lol. 4K or so after a little less than a second and a half channel? That doesn’t save you from execute range. You need the twilight heal for that, which requires double/triple slots, and a stupid pet that dies constantly or gets stuck. And it’s *expensive*.
You dont need a class based DoT to get the heals from Power/Critical Surge.
Dark Conversion/Deal might not save you from execute range but that's why shield stacking is a thing.
I really question some people's ability to play Sorcerer when they can't survive with massive shields, Streak, and these two self heals.
You know that the shield is gone in one GCD right?
It takes two GCD to refresh a stack, and if you’re CC’ed for 1-2 GCD you’re likely taking health damage.
Shields aren’t ‘massive’ on average we’re talking 12K hardened and 8K or so harness. Seems like a lot, because of the stack, but the most we can shield is 12K or so in one GCD. Animation cancel a Heavy attack and (pick your skill here) and it’s gone.
If a Sorc goes offensive, we have to drop a shield off the stack, or we spend 2/4 or so GCD refreshing shields. Now I’m sure some genius is going to post a pic of a triple stack with healing ward. Duuurrr. Duuurrr shields OP! Ignoring that it takes 3 GCD to stack, will only last 3 GCD longer, and costs more than the new Templar instant heal to full.
If you DO go and build one of those 60K Max Magicka YOLO builds, you have no sustain, low health, and no stamina. There are better ways of killing them. Like, a couple of hard CC back to back.
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IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭The amount of salt over sorc is amazing.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel4 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »Magblades weren’t hit quite as hard as the rest of us by Morrowind sustain changes. So they fixed that.
Welcome to the club-house with the rest of us! Take a sustain glyph or two and heavy attack once in a while and you’ll be okay.
Cool. Do I now get a cheap second shield to stack with my Harness and Curse to make up for the damage I lose by building for sustain?
Trade you hardened ward for cloak, and curse for merciless!
We all have access to the pay to win goodies next patch.
Cloak isn't comparable to Hardened, it's comparable to Ball of Lightning. Merciless is comparable to frags. So where's my curse and hardened?
Cloak is comparable to hardened, the direct stops your health from being hit "spmmable" damage mitigation skill. Ball is comparable to shade. Mobility, not spammale. (though streak is semi spmmable to runaways)MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
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It would help if you’d look beyond the very narrow NB scope. The change isn’t stupid. It’s justified. If the magnitude is justified could be argued. But leaving Strife at 1803 base cost certainly wasn’t going to cut it. The alternative would have been reducing the damage significantly. Would that have made you more happy?Edited by Feanor on May 17, 2018 6:44AMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
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It would help if you’d look beyond the very narrow NB scope. The change isn’t stupid. It’s justified. If the magnitude is justified could be argued. But leaving Strife at 1803 base cost certainly wasn’t going to cut it. The alternative would have been reducing the damage significantly. Would that have made you more happy?
No it's hugely stupid. A cost increase does make sense to an extent, as I've said many times putting it at 2,100 or 2,200 would make sense, but because of the amount they chose it's very stupidFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
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It would help if you’d look beyond the very narrow NB scope. The change isn’t stupid. It’s justified. If the magnitude is justified could be argued. But leaving Strife at 1803 base cost certainly wasn’t going to cut it. The alternative would have been reducing the damage significantly. Would that have made you more happy?
No it's hugely stupid. A cost increase does make sense to an extent, as I've said many times putting it at 2,100 or 2,200 would make sense, but because of the amount they chose it's very stupid
From the looks of it, Mag NB will essentially swap between Elemental Weapon and Funnel Health, ofc depending on what they’re going after (slightly more dmg vs offheals+ult gen/passives). Also NB sustain is still best.
Idk. It’s a huge cost increase to just throw in, and not one I like, but it’s only a minuscule nerf compared to what other classes have gone through in terms of sustain.
Trials will still be packed with Mag NBs next patch.
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NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
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It would help if you’d look beyond the very narrow NB scope. The change isn’t stupid. It’s justified. If the magnitude is justified could be argued. But leaving Strife at 1803 base cost certainly wasn’t going to cut it. The alternative would have been reducing the damage significantly. Would that have made you more happy?
No it's hugely stupid. A cost increase does make sense to an extent, as I've said many times putting it at 2,100 or 2,200 would make sense, but because of the amount they chose it's very stupid
From the looks of it, Mag NB will essentially swap between Elemental Weapon and Funnel Health, ofc depending on what they’re going after (slightly more dmg vs offheals+ult gen/passives). Also NB sustain is still best.
Idk. It’s a huge cost increase to just throw in, and not one I like, but it’s only a minuscule nerf compared to what other classes have gone through in terms of sustain.
Trials will still be packed with Mag NBs next patch.
I don't really care about trials. Sustaining in a trial is easy. The cheap cost of strife allowed MagBlades to spec into stam sustain which they typically lacked when Siphoning attacks got changed. In PvP you need some stam sustain even as a magic build or you are deadFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »Magblades weren’t hit quite as hard as the rest of us by Morrowind sustain changes. So they fixed that.
Welcome to the club-house with the rest of us! Take a sustain glyph or two and heavy attack once in a while and you’ll be okay.
Cool. Do I now get a cheap second shield to stack with my Harness and Curse to make up for the damage I lose by building for sustain?
Trade you hardened ward for cloak, and curse for merciless!
We all have access to the pay to win goodies next patch.
Cloak isn't comparable to Hardened, it's comparable to Ball of Lightning. Merciless is comparable to frags. So where's my curse and hardened?
Actually no, shadow image is the equivalent to streak. Those are called mobility skills. Cloak is the equivalent to hardened. Those are called survivability skills. You already have an equivalent for curse. Its called cripple.
P.S. Merciless is "comparable" to frags. Lol. Good one.3 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »Magblades weren’t hit quite as hard as the rest of us by Morrowind sustain changes. So they fixed that.
Welcome to the club-house with the rest of us! Take a sustain glyph or two and heavy attack once in a while and you’ll be okay.
Cool. Do I now get a cheap second shield to stack with my Harness and Curse to make up for the damage I lose by building for sustain?
Trade you hardened ward for cloak, and curse for merciless!
We all have access to the pay to win goodies next patch.
Cloak isn't comparable to Hardened, it's comparable to Ball of Lightning. Merciless is comparable to frags. So where's my curse and hardened?
Actually no, shadow image is the equivalent to streak. Those are called mobility skills. Cloak is the equivalent to hardened. Those are called survivability skills. You already have an equivalent for curse. Its called cripple.
P.S. Merciless is "comparable" to frags. Lol. Good one.
Cloak is an escape skill like Streak. How can Cloak not be considered a mobility skill when it gives you access to 25% extra movement speed through Concealed Weapon?
Merciless and Frags are both ranged projectiles that have certain proc conditions (frag's instant cast, merciless' 5 light attacks.) They're comparable.
"You already have an equivalent for curse. Its called cripple."
...what? How is a DOT comparable to delayed damage? Are you saying now that Burning Embers is equivalent to Sub Assault?Edited by arkansas_ESO on May 18, 2018 12:03AMＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/170 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »To be fair it is odd that the best ward is also the cheapest ward. This isn't to say that hardened ward needs a cost increase. It is just inconsistent with how ZoS has balanced other class skills with comparable other skills.
As a reaction, ZOS should bring the cost of shields down to MATCH hardened ward, not nerf it to cost the same as Annulment.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »Magblades weren’t hit quite as hard as the rest of us by Morrowind sustain changes. So they fixed that.
Welcome to the club-house with the rest of us! Take a sustain glyph or two and heavy attack once in a while and you’ll be okay.
Cool. Do I now get a cheap second shield to stack with my Harness and Curse to make up for the damage I lose by building for sustain?
Trade you hardened ward for cloak, and curse for merciless!
We all have access to the pay to win goodies next patch.
Cloak isn't comparable to Hardened, it's comparable to Ball of Lightning. Merciless is comparable to frags. So where's my curse and hardened?
Actually no, shadow image is the equivalent to streak. Those are called mobility skills. Cloak is the equivalent to hardened. Those are called survivability skills. You already have an equivalent for curse. Its called cripple.
P.S. Merciless is "comparable" to frags. Lol. Good one.
Cloak is an escape skill like Streak. How can Cloak not be considered a mobility skill when it gives you access to 25% extra movement speed through Concealed Weapon?
Merciless and Frags are both ranged projectiles that have certain proc conditions (frag's instant cast, merciless' 5 light attacks.) They're comparable.
"You already have an equivalent for curse. Its called cripple."
...what? How is a DOT comparable to delayed damage? Are you saying now that Burning Embers is equivalent to Sub Assault?
Tell you what: You can count cloak as a ‘mobility’ skill when ZOS adds a stacking cost to it, so high that it vapes the Magicka of a 48K magblade in 3-4 casts. Or maybe when it stops forced-miss of every ranged attack when you’re standing in my detect pot radius.mr_wazzabi wrote: »Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »To be fair it is odd that the best ward is also the cheapest ward. This isn't to say that hardened ward needs a cost increase. It is just inconsistent with how ZoS has balanced other class skills with comparable other skills.
As a reaction, ZOS should bring the cost of shields down to MATCH hardened ward, not nerf it to cost the same as Annulment.
Or... they can leave the one class perk of having hardened ward alone.
We get a slightly cheaper and smaller shield than dampen with no perks like harness.Edited by Minalan on May 18, 2018 12:35AM1 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »Magblades weren’t hit quite as hard as the rest of us by Morrowind sustain changes. So they fixed that.
Welcome to the club-house with the rest of us! Take a sustain glyph or two and heavy attack once in a while and you’ll be okay.
Cool. Do I now get a cheap second shield to stack with my Harness and Curse to make up for the damage I lose by building for sustain?
Trade you hardened ward for cloak, and curse for merciless!
We all have access to the pay to win goodies next patch.
Cloak isn't comparable to Hardened, it's comparable to Ball of Lightning. Merciless is comparable to frags. So where's my curse and hardened?
Actually no, shadow image is the equivalent to streak. Those are called mobility skills. Cloak is the equivalent to hardened. Those are called survivability skills. You already have an equivalent for curse. Its called cripple.
P.S. Merciless is "comparable" to frags. Lol. Good one.
So just tooltip damage wise my merciless has a tooltip damage of 20k and my incap has a value of 15k. On my sorc running the same gear my Crystal frag tooltip is 17k and curse is 14k. So frag and merciless are not comparable there is a 3k difference there. Crystal frag actually hits harder than incap and curse comes pretty close to incap damage. Here's the difference though since neither of those abilities are ultimates you can combine those with a ultimate for even more damage. Magblade has alot of de-buffs though like defile and breach and 20% damage increase after incap but overall damage the sorc burst combo is higher.
Streak and shade are very comparable shade is stronger when you are fighting on uneven terrain with cliffs and towers. Streak is stronger open field and better when caught off guard or if you are snared. Cripple is more comparable with mines than curse. I do agree Cloak is the nightblade version of hardened but they are completely different skills Cloak is used more as a reposition tool or a couple seconds of being untargetable to get your buffs up. While hardened is used to be more tanky. Overall the classes are pretty comparable1 -
DeliCreep✭✭✭Sorc has the worst sustain of all the magicka DDs, nerfing it even more would be a really bad idea.Immortal Redeemer2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »Magblades weren’t hit quite as hard as the rest of us by Morrowind sustain changes. So they fixed that.
Welcome to the club-house with the rest of us! Take a sustain glyph or two and heavy attack once in a while and you’ll be okay.
Cool. Do I now get a cheap second shield to stack with my Harness and Curse to make up for the damage I lose by building for sustain?
Trade you hardened ward for cloak, and curse for merciless!
We all have access to the pay to win goodies next patch.
Cloak isn't comparable to Hardened, it's comparable to Ball of Lightning. Merciless is comparable to frags. So where's my curse and hardened?
Actually no, shadow image is the equivalent to streak. Those are called mobility skills. Cloak is the equivalent to hardened. Those are called survivability skills. You already have an equivalent for curse. Its called cripple.
P.S. Merciless is "comparable" to frags. Lol. Good one.
Streak and shade are very comparable shade is stronger when you are fighting on uneven terrain with cliffs and towers. Streak is stronger open field and better when caught off guard or if you are snared.
Hmm...I have to disagree. I think shade is the overall better escape mechanic, not the overall better skill, but for escaping it wins out a comparison.
Streaking in open field might sound compelling but when there's nothing to LoS, or at least to negate gapclosers, it is easily countered. Not to mention that streaking uphills is just a waste of mag, while streaking downhills wastes so much time by falling straight down. You can run after a streaking sorc with sprint + major expedition in medium armor due to the "root" on both ends. And once you are in melee range there is not much to be done to get away from someone with a gap closer.
So, like I said, you need something to shut down gap closers. If it's a slight hill (where you've got issues to streak up) or a tree/ rock. But then again, a clever placed shade behind those objects + cloak afterwards get's you out of trouble easier.
Sure, you can have someone camp at the shade but that requires a second player. All while streak can be countered solo. However, streak has other advantages. I mostly use it as a stun or to get cloaking players out of stealth. And the dmg of course. But then again, shade has dmg and maim. But whatever.2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just out of interest: Does anyone actually know the range of Streak? http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Storm_Calling gives no number, but I’ve always felt it’s much less than a traditional gap closer has.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just out of interest: Does anyone actually know the range of Streak? http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Storm_Calling gives no number, but I’ve always felt it’s much less than a traditional gap closer has.
It's 15 meters.4 -
Jerkling✭✭✭✭
i'm quite comfy with the sustain on my Magblade. I do have Swollow Soul in my rotation but i don't spam it as much but instead heavy attack more as you are also suggesting.Magblades weren’t hit quite as hard as the rest of us by Morrowind sustain changes. So they fixed that.
Welcome to the club-house with the rest of us! Take a sustain glyph or two and heavy attack once in a while and you’ll be okay.
i'm not saying it should be neglected, i just feel that one aspect of the game shouldn't factor in this strongly. but you are right, it's probably a very though thing to balance and i haven't thought of things like BGs.If you take Battlegrounds into account - which are going to be included in the base game with Update 18 - noCP isn’t some sort of marginal endeavour you can simply neglect when it comes to balance. In fact, that noCP exists is one of the reasons why balance is so difficult. ZOS continually has to find the sweet spot between an ability being actually useful in noCP and not being overpowered in CP. That’s a tough task. [...]
i wouldn't go as far as to say Hardened Ward is the main Sorc defense though. StamSorcs surely doen't use it as much as MagSorcs do and there is also abilities like Defensive Rune, Lightning Form and Bolt Escape to mitigate or negate damage.
not really and i'm sure not twisting the argument. seem to me like you are the one twisting the argument a bit here.Which is a strawman argument (as you admit yourself because you have to twist the argument for shields and for strife) - because 9 of 10 times only annulment + hardened will be used as spammable shields.
On the other hand the times that funnel serves as a pure hot is probably the other way round when comparing it to it´s use as a dmging spammable. 9 out of 10 nbs will use strife as a dmg spammable - so the comparison is a lot more adequate.
Strife and Hardened Ward are both class abilities. As a MagBlade i'd chose Strife over other similar abilities because it's cheap, it's ranged and the secondary effect is really great. When the patch goes live i might not chose Strife anymore because its cost are on par with similar abilites but i might not actually need the HoT and therefor go with Force Shock instead because of its interrupt. So for now 9 out of 10 NBs will use Strife, but that might change in the future.
Hardened Ward on the other hand will still be used 9 out of 10 times by MagSorcs even after the patch because it's much cheaper than Dampen Magic and has almost the same shield strength.
And it doesn't matter if you have 1, 2, many options as with Strife or only 2 as with Hardend Ward in my opinion.Edited by Jerkling on May 18, 2018 12:07PM0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
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Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why are you comparing an offensive skill to a defensive one, neither even in the same ballpark as the other? You wanna play this game? Yeah hardened ward is the best shield in the game. But at least it’s a shield and other classes have access to the mechanic. How is it fair that nightblade has access to a defensive technique that no other class can even emulate? For the record I don’t believe this is unfair, I just think your logic comparing class skills like this with no basis is dumb.
I’m sick and tired of members of the most overpowered class in the game crying about negligible nerfs. Complaining bout strife being nerfed in cost as the class with the best sustain in the game hands down, and the only class with not one but two spammables. Lmao. Meanwhile classes like mag/stam sorc and stam dk are like “can we just get one pls”.1 -
Jerkling✭✭✭✭did you even read this discussion or did you just read parts of the first post and then went ballistic, crashlanding right into imaginary land?
Edited by Jerkling on May 18, 2018 12:20PM0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭
why are you asking me? open your own thread and ask ZOS.Why is cloak still allowed to reign supreme over detect invis pots.
Why is elude still allowed to reign supreme over shuffle - YOU`RE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO SLOT THE LATTER ANYMORE on anything but medium.
Why is incap still allowed to reigh supreme over other singletarget ultimates.
Why does NB get so many skills that don´t even have a counterpart everyone can use with similar function?
NERF NERF NERF
that's the exact reason why you can't really compare these abilities. but by only focusing on the personal shield effect you get somewhat of a reference.Comparing shields by only taking into account the shield size is either very biased or done with no knowledge about skills, sorry. Harden is the only shield without additional effects (damage for blazing, synergy for bones, magika returns for dampen, etc.).
With this kind of comments then we wonder why zos don't listen to the community....
Sorcerers have to spend 8k magicka every 5 seconds. You think mag nb has resource issues?0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just out of interest: Does anyone actually know the range of Streak? http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Storm_Calling gives no number, but I’ve always felt it’s much less than a traditional gap closer has.
It's 15 meters.
Feels more like 12 half the timeFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »Force pulse doesn't heal me
does more damage, has more utility, status effects are sorta nice, passively ignores 10% of resist, and gives the Ancient Knowledge passive. If you use the right morph it interrupt too. Strife does none of theseFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »Magblades weren’t hit quite as hard as the rest of us by Morrowind sustain changes. So they fixed that.
Welcome to the club-house with the rest of us! Take a sustain glyph or two and heavy attack once in a while and you’ll be okay.
Cool. Do I now get a cheap second shield to stack with my Harness and Curse to make up for the damage I lose by building for sustain?
Trade you hardened ward for cloak, and curse for merciless!
We all have access to the pay to win goodies next patch.
Cloak isn't comparable to Hardened, it's comparable to Ball of Lightning. Merciless is comparable to frags. So where's my curse and hardened?
Actually no, shadow image is the equivalent to streak. Those are called mobility skills. Cloak is the equivalent to hardened. Those are called survivability skills. You already have an equivalent for curse. Its called cripple.
P.S. Merciless is "comparable" to frags. Lol. Good one.
Cloak is an escape skill like Streak. How can Cloak not be considered a mobility skill when it gives you access to 25% extra movement speed through Concealed Weapon?
Merciless and Frags are both ranged projectiles that have certain proc conditions (frag's instant cast, merciless' 5 light attacks.) They're comparable.
"You already have an equivalent for curse. Its called cripple."
...what? How is a DOT comparable to delayed damage? Are you saying now that Burning Embers is equivalent to Sub Assault?
Just because concealed gives movement speed it doesnt mean that cloak is no longer the NBs survivability skill. Thats a synergy between skills. But cloak is the cornerstone of NBs survivability. NBs use cloak to avoid taking dmg. Sorcs use their shield to absorb the dmg.
Shadow image is the kiting/mobility skill for NBs. Thats the skill that makes NBs the masters of kiting. That ability is the equivalent of streak. NBs are the masters of kiting, sorcs are the masters of speed.
No, im not saying that embers is the equivalent to sub assault. Curse isnt the equivalent to sub assault either. Frag is. Frag, merciless, potl, power lash, sub assault. Those are the burst skills.
All classes have some distinct design (wardens are debatable) but all classes still have some basic guidelines. They have their survivability skill, utility, resource management, ground based AOE, burst, "single target dot" etc. For single target dot templars have vamp bane, DKs have embers, Wardens have swarm, NBs have cripple and Sorcs have curse. Thats the purpose of curse. It serves as the sorc's "DOT". They dont have any other dot. Thats the one. The reason why its delayed dmg is to follow with the sorc's theme and unique offensive design which is delayed burst. Everything they do works like that.
If you want a class designed for delayed burst then play a sorc. Stop asking for ur NB to become a sorc.
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arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »Magblades weren’t hit quite as hard as the rest of us by Morrowind sustain changes. So they fixed that.
Welcome to the club-house with the rest of us! Take a sustain glyph or two and heavy attack once in a while and you’ll be okay.
Cool. Do I now get a cheap second shield to stack with my Harness and Curse to make up for the damage I lose by building for sustain?
Trade you hardened ward for cloak, and curse for merciless!
We all have access to the pay to win goodies next patch.
Cloak isn't comparable to Hardened, it's comparable to Ball of Lightning. Merciless is comparable to frags. So where's my curse and hardened?
Actually no, shadow image is the equivalent to streak. Those are called mobility skills. Cloak is the equivalent to hardened. Those are called survivability skills. You already have an equivalent for curse. Its called cripple.
P.S. Merciless is "comparable" to frags. Lol. Good one.
Cloak is an escape skill like Streak. How can Cloak not be considered a mobility skill when it gives you access to 25% extra movement speed through Concealed Weapon?
Merciless and Frags are both ranged projectiles that have certain proc conditions (frag's instant cast, merciless' 5 light attacks.) They're comparable.
"You already have an equivalent for curse. Its called cripple."
...what? How is a DOT comparable to delayed damage? Are you saying now that Burning Embers is equivalent to Sub Assault?
Just because concealed gives movement speed it doesnt mean that cloak is no longer the NBs survivability skill. Thats a synergy between skills. But cloak is the cornerstone of NBs survivability. NBs use cloak to avoid taking dmg. Sorcs use their shield to absorb the dmg.
Shadow image is the kiting/mobility skill for NBs. Thats the skill that makes NBs the masters of kiting. That ability is the equivalent of streak. NBs are the masters of kiting, sorcs are the masters of speed.
No, im not saying that embers is the equivalent to sub assault. Curse isnt the equivalent to sub assault either. Frag is. Frag, merciless, potl, power lash, sub assault. Those are the burst skills.
All classes have some distinct design (wardens are debatable) but all classes still have some basic guidelines. They have their survivability skill, utility, resource management, ground based AOE, burst, "single target dot" etc. For single target dot templars have vamp bane, DKs have embers, Wardens have swarm, NBs have cripple and Sorcs have curse. Thats the purpose of curse. It serves as the sorc's "DOT". They dont have any other dot. Thats the one. The reason why its delayed dmg is to follow with the sorc's theme and unique offensive design which is delayed burst. Everything they do works like that.
If you want a class designed for delayed burst then play a sorc. Stop asking for ur NB to become a sorc.
Curse isn't a DOTＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/170 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thankyourat wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »Magblades weren’t hit quite as hard as the rest of us by Morrowind sustain changes. So they fixed that.
Welcome to the club-house with the rest of us! Take a sustain glyph or two and heavy attack once in a while and you’ll be okay.
Cool. Do I now get a cheap second shield to stack with my Harness and Curse to make up for the damage I lose by building for sustain?
Trade you hardened ward for cloak, and curse for merciless!
We all have access to the pay to win goodies next patch.
Cloak isn't comparable to Hardened, it's comparable to Ball of Lightning. Merciless is comparable to frags. So where's my curse and hardened?
Actually no, shadow image is the equivalent to streak. Those are called mobility skills. Cloak is the equivalent to hardened. Those are called survivability skills. You already have an equivalent for curse. Its called cripple.
P.S. Merciless is "comparable" to frags. Lol. Good one.
So just tooltip damage wise my merciless has a tooltip damage of 20k and my incap has a value of 15k. On my sorc running the same gear my Crystal frag tooltip is 17k and curse is 14k. So frag and merciless are not comparable there is a 3k difference there. Crystal frag actually hits harder than incap and curse comes pretty close to incap damage. Here's the difference though since neither of those abilities are ultimates you can combine those with a ultimate for even more damage. Magblade has alot of de-buffs though like defile and breach and 20% damage increase after incap but overall damage the sorc burst combo is higher.
Streak and shade are very comparable shade is stronger when you are fighting on uneven terrain with cliffs and towers. Streak is stronger open field and better when caught off guard or if you are snared. Cripple is more comparable with mines than curse. I do agree Cloak is the nightblade version of hardened but they are completely different skills Cloak is used more as a reposition tool or a couple seconds of being untargetable to get your buffs up. While hardened is used to be more tanky. Overall the classes are pretty comparable
Frag and merciless are comparable in terms of both being burst skills. Whether they are actually comparable in terms of performance its a completely different subjects that involves skill synergy like you said etc. Thats why i said "comparable".
Curse is the equivalent to cripple in terms of being the "single target dot" for their respective classes. But again, their performance is an entirely different subject. Curse hits harder compared to other single target dots because quite frankly dmg is the only thing it does. It doesnt heal you, snare or anything like other dots like cripple or burning embers. It just deals dmg.
As far as mines are concerned, those are mostly for ground control. Keep people away from you etc. Sure cripple have some similar function in a 1v1 with root and snare but the one that is closer to mines in terms of keeping multiple people away from you and have some ground control is fear. At least thats how it used to work for defense. Fear multiple people and get them off ur back. Then ZOS for some weird reason decided to nerf the number of people you can fear but keep all the other dumb things like huge duration, buggy cc, snare, maim and generally what was actually the issue with the ability. Aka they nerfed it defensively which wasnt even a problem but kept it the same offensively which was actually the problem in the first place. But oh well, thats ZOS balance.
Edited by pieratsos on May 18, 2018 7:24PM0 -
Roger_kun✭✭The base damage of Strife (1749) and morphs (1803) is close to Force Pulse (3 x 579 = 1737) and more than twice of Elemental Weapon (739).
Strife is not enhanced by the passive race. Strife does not activate the staff's passives. Strife does not increase its damage by 10% magic penetration.
You really do not understand this?
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