Sooo AOE cap is swapped to AOE Stacking?

Thogard

You say you aren’t new to PvP but then you say you’ve never seen a ball group before...

I’m having a hard time understanding how both of those facts can be true.

technohic

I don’t think friendly fire is a good idea but if PBAOE required LOS from the player to where if a friendly player is in the way the enemy on the other side doesn’t get hit, might effect some things. Then we can all LOS hump perma blockers like they’re a resource tower

TheValar85

You people are realy that.... are you? or just forget how to read? cos all i see as a reply you are in a 20 men group and bla bla bla, wihle you are all missing my point. i am not mad about how anyone plays with game, but cousing dricetly lag and fps issues is not a nice thing considering how the game is unstable. And i am not going to repeat my self again so read it! there were more then what you see on teh picture. I said that too, i also said leater on the game loaded a sheet ton of them on the wall, it was more than you could have counted on the picture, i was not able to take a screenshot, cos the moment when the game loaded the stackers my game crushed. So quit complaining about that thank you. And if you think you could have handleled amount of number of players, including fps, and lag spikes even with 20 man in your group then you are all deluded.

So for teh last time, dont come for me in those ways. I have clearly adressed an on going issues, wich is cused dircetly players whom know how teh game is unstable in Cyrodiil and taking advantage of it.

I don't give a damn thing if i got slautehred, i am fine with that, including zergz i dont care thats just the part of the game, and i am fin with that. WHAT I SAID Directly cosuing lags and frame drops by these actions, are not nice. So hard to udnerstand? in that case get out of my thread.

TheValar85

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone wanted caps removed so they could deal with these groups easier.

Now the caps are gone and people are still mad at organised train groups.

In truth the problem is likely that AOE is too cheap in cost. If people are going to resort to this type of behavior the easiest solution is too make it so they can't nearly perpetually cast aoe's.

What's even worse is they have a whole bunch of people using lightning staves and just going for the heavy attack knockdowns on top of the aoe. I don't even know what gimmick that is... because I regularly see just some random lightning heavy attack with no off balance on me and get knocked down. It's not CP either (I don't play on CP servers). Even more annoying is they only need one tick of the lightning heavy attack to knock you down... when it should only be on the final pulse.

That and add a dozen plus people wearing Earthgore monster set... well lol, good luck killing them. You get 2-3 earthgore procs at same time on an aoe spamming zergball and you aren't killing them. The fact that they run more than that, makes it more obnoxious.

We we're told and argued that eliminating aoe caps would "save the game". It didn't do anything except make things worse...I've not really seen any improvement in pvp gameplay due to it and have only seen negatives. Performance is arguably worse, Zergballs are arguably harder to kill and most of the vocal "OMG get rid of AOEcaps" crowd is largely silent on it after they spent 3 years complaining about it.

See? some body finaly got what i am saying! Thanx the Divines!

VaranisArano

Cyrodiil is designed for groups of 2 to 24 people, says so right in the tool-tip.

Not the fault of those groups if the server can't handle it.

TheValar85

VaranisArano wrote: »

Cyrodiil is designed for groups of 2 to 24 people, says so right in the tool-tip.

Not the fault of those groups if the server can't handle it.

well you are right, but the problem reguardless of this still exist and nothing hase changed from ZOS side to make it better.

rfennell_ESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

Cyrodiil is designed for groups of 2 to 24 people, says so right in the tool-tip.

Not the fault of those groups if the server can't handle it.

Being that the zerg ball group can turn off friendly effects... and their enemies can't.

I'm thinking it's just another ZOS brain fart at work.

Sandman929

You're pointing out that the servers are poor, agreed, but you also seem to be suggesting that these players in your picture are causing problems by moving in a coordinated fashion and utilizing AoE skills. I don't want to read incorrectly into your intentions, so is there any solution you're proposing?

TheValar85

well i could add solutions, for that if anyone would liek to hear or read my idea.

Sandman929

TheValar85 wrote: »

well i could add solutions, for that if anyone would liek to hear or read my idea.

I think a lot of people are receptive to new ideas, even if they don't always agree with them.

TheValar85

Sandman929 wrote: »

TheValar85 wrote: »

well i could add solutions, for that if anyone would liek to hear or read my idea.

I think a lot of people are receptive to new ideas, even if they don't always agree with them.

Definetly.

But Prior to the unstableaty state of the game, the sveres realy needs some sirius uprgades. Inclduing game engine and game grafick motor fixes.

Mr_Nobody

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone wanted caps removed so they could deal with these groups easier.

Now the caps are gone and people are still mad at organised train groups.

It was never the aoe cap that was the issue. It was and is Purge.

Iskras

Just to report: it is not by chance that ZOS will transfer some operations to another server (by the little that I understand). It seems that some code will be read on another server - and if I'm not mistaken, just what AOEs write.

Ixtyr

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone wanted caps removed so they could deal with these groups easier.

Now the caps are gone and people are still mad at organised train groups.

It was never the aoe cap that was the issue. It was and is Purge.

And Rapids.

And the siege changes are going to make that significantly worse next patch, particularly when attacking a well-defended keep.

Xsorus

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone wanted caps removed so they could deal with these groups easier.

Now the caps are gone and people are still mad at organised train groups.

It was never the aoe cap that was the issue. It was and is Purge.

Disagree, AOE caps was certainly the issue.

Now its Earthgore that's the new Issue...Basically ZOS has removed one problem and added another.

If you can hit these groups when Earthgore is down you can instant wipe most of them..Problem is they all have multiple Earthgores.

I'm sure after they nerf Earthgore ZOS will add something else stupid to make stacking keep on trucking as well.

ToRelax

TheValar85 wrote: »

You people are realy that.... are you? or just forget how to read? cos all i see as a reply you are in a 20 men group and bla bla bla, wihle you are all missing my point.
[...]

We looked long and hard, but it was nowhere to be found.

Xsorus wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone wanted caps removed so they could deal with these groups easier.

Now the caps are gone and people are still mad at organised train groups.

It was never the aoe cap that was the issue. It was and is Purge.

Disagree, AOE caps was certainly the issue.

Now its Earthgore that's the new Issue...Basically ZOS has removed one problem and added another.

If you can hit these groups when Earthgore is down you can instant wipe most of them..Problem is they all have multiple Earthgores.

I'm sure after they nerf Earthgore ZOS will add something else stupid to make stacking keep on trucking as well.

^

Dreyloch

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone wanted caps removed so they could deal with these groups easier.

Now the caps are gone and people are still mad at organised train groups.

Because the cap removal helps those large groups too lol. I've been saying it since the caps were in place. Ppl jumped up and down and screamed for the cap removal, and I said be careful what you wish for. Seems to me it's done nothing for the issue at all =/

Dreyloch

TheValar85 wrote: »

You people are realy that.... are you? or just forget how to read? cos all i see as a reply you are in a 20 men group and bla bla bla, wihle you are all missing my point. i am not mad about how anyone plays with game, but cousing dricetly lag and fps issues is not a nice thing considering how the game is unstable. And i am not going to repeat my self again so read it! there were more then what you see on teh picture. I said that too, i also said leater on the game loaded a sheet ton of them on the wall, it was more than you could have counted on the picture, i was not able to take a screenshot, cos the moment when the game loaded the stackers my game crushed. So quit complaining about that thank you. And if you think you could have handleled amount of number of players, including fps, and lag spikes even with 20 man in your group then you are all deluded.

So for teh last time, dont come for me in those ways. I have clearly adressed an on going issues, wich is cused dircetly players whom know how teh game is unstable in Cyrodiil and taking advantage of it.

I don't give a damn thing if i got slautehred, i am fine with that, including zergz i dont care thats just the part of the game, and i am fin with that. WHAT I SAID Directly cosuing lags and frame drops by these actions, are not nice. So hard to udnerstand? in that case get out of my thread.

Look friend, this is how PvP is on the 30 day servers. It's where the most population is. What you encountered was more than likely what we call a "Faction Stack". It kills the performance for anyone playing that server. It's not the players fault , although it can be argued they shouldn't all bunch up like that. This has been happening for over 3 years across all servers. ZoS does not know how to fix it. The players are gonna play how they want, so that's not gonna change either. I'm not gonna suggest anything to you, because you can search these forums and find 32484123891254 more posts just like yours.

frozywozy

Anazasi wrote: »

It was only a matter of time before the scenarios of launch returned. Congratulations, we have come full circle and the journey only took roughly 4 years.

"smaller" groups complaining about zerging "larger" groups rationalizing their behavior; all we need now is Frozn screaming "spread out" and we will be right back to year 1.5 where the only enemy we all fight regularly is the server lag.

I scream it everyday still when zone chat goes crazy complaining about lag while the entire DC and EP faction have been going into a stalemate at Chalman.

highnds

TheValar85 wrote: »

Today and yesterday i was in Cyrodill on PC/EU/Vivec and my fellow Dominion mates have faced some realy interesting thing.



They are like a train of Aoe, they are making the whole game so lagging, that basicly it is a lag kill.

Each of those players are constantly spamming AOE's while they are basicly on eachothers neck, they just simply wall trhough everyone, and you instantly dead.

Not to mention, the fps in cyrodiil is already having some sirius issues, but this makes it even worst.

And the rest of the group members are not even loaded when i took the screenshot.it was sooo lagging as hell. According to my fellow group mate tryed to count them, but he stoped at 50.

Nothing was effective against them basicly, nor the sieges, nor destro ultimates, they just kept going and slauthering everything in their way.

People basicly button smashing their escaping abilties to get away from them as fast as they could, but thax for this directly coused lagfest by AOE stacking up no one stands a chance. I went leater on to sota Sil to look around what is goign on tthere. It was the same, Ad had an emperor a very decent one, with 2 full raid, they are all died by the same method like the others on vivec. And they all mentioned on the zoen chat this is clearly an exploit cousing directly making teh whole palce lagging and making the game to loose frames as well. And tehy are not palying with this game with potato pc's and nor do i. The game were unable to react basicly to do the bidding of making the skills work in time.
I decied to look around on Shor as well with my alt toon. it was very sad to see it was the same thing.

I would like to say that i am not here to QQ about the shade things what is going on in Cyrodiil, becasue every fraction hase its own methods, but directly cosuing lagfest kills is a clear exploit, ruinning the whole gaming experiance in Cyrodiil. Becasue they do know this, and so does now the Reds as well. They do exactly the same thing, in vivec, in Shor, in Sotha Sil.

It is not my first time to face zergs, and i do know how to wipe them out of the face of nirn, but seeng this constantly it is a real cheap move. Not to mention seeing how hard to try working together the DC and EP against AD is just prooving it right how miserable some players are. (i feel sorry for them)
But using these methods to take advantage over one fraction? Realy? And the forums are full of complains about AD? Look around you guys first and then judge the other fraction thank you.

Don't get me wrong because i have a lot of friends from each fractons, and i love them too. But when it comes like this, it is just eh i dont know i dont want to offend anyone from teh other fraction but i have to get out of this from my chest, it is pathetic what you guys doing. And also adding other facts like using the rest of the remaing campins, to do emperor boosting for real money and millions of golds just makes it wors too.

I don't get this, siriusly why people doing this? it is not fun anymore. Taking advantages over others in a way that using the games issues just to take advantages? thats everything just not fair in a competative game method like AVA.

Thankfully some of those psijic skills might help nullify that crap

frozywozy

Xsorus wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone wanted caps removed so they could deal with these groups easier.

Now the caps are gone and people are still mad at organised train groups.

It was never the aoe cap that was the issue. It was and is Purge.

Disagree, AOE caps was certainly the issue.

Now its Earthgore that's the new Issue...Basically ZOS has removed one problem and added another.

If you can hit these groups when Earthgore is down you can instant wipe most of them..Problem is they all have multiple Earthgores.

I'm sure after they nerf Earthgore ZOS will add something else stupid to make stacking keep on trucking as well.

Any experienced player that I know who run in an organized group agrees that earthgore is a plague and should have never existed. I don't think it gives an edge to organized groups more than pugs. It is a problem as a whole and need to be gone entirely, not nerfed or changed.

Agrippa_Invisus

frozywozy wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone wanted caps removed so they could deal with these groups easier.

Now the caps are gone and people are still mad at organised train groups.

It was never the aoe cap that was the issue. It was and is Purge.

Disagree, AOE caps was certainly the issue.

Now its Earthgore that's the new Issue...Basically ZOS has removed one problem and added another.

If you can hit these groups when Earthgore is down you can instant wipe most of them..Problem is they all have multiple Earthgores.

I'm sure after they nerf Earthgore ZOS will add something else stupid to make stacking keep on trucking as well.

Any experienced player that I know who run in an organized group agrees that earthgore is a plague and should have never existed. I don't think it gives an edge to organized groups more than pugs. It is a problem as a whole and need to be gone entirely, not nerfed or changed.

I completely agree with Frozn here, as does anyone in my guild I've talked to about this (and trust me, we've belabored this subject in our Discord ad nauseaum).

Earthgore should never have made it past QA, let alone to live servers.

The best response to it in its current state is to remove it and replace it with something else. Whether that be changing the procc on it to something else entirely, or just gifting a whole bunch of Dreugh Wax and Tempers to those players that own them and removing them from the game.

It's awful. It's pay to win (you have to own the DLC to get it). It's imbalanced. It's like old Malubeth on a group level, plus ground effect removal. Malubeth deserved the nerf it got, and there's no reason that Earthgore should have ever been allowed to exist in an even worse state.

It's the current crutch that large groups use to circumvent mistakes. If this was out of the game, there would be a lot more wiping going on of said destro ball groups. I have watched (and participated in) so many large groups taking coordinated mass attacks that would have wiped them pre-Earthgore only to soldier on through it. It's the reason why, when small manning on off nights, our 6-10 man groups can't take down a full raid group reliably, even when that raid group makes a major mistake. It covers for bad play, and anything that does so thoroughly is bad for game balance and especially bad for PVP balance.

Sandman929

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone wanted caps removed so they could deal with these groups easier.

Now the caps are gone and people are still mad at organised train groups.

It was never the aoe cap that was the issue. It was and is Purge.

Disagree, AOE caps was certainly the issue.

Now its Earthgore that's the new Issue...Basically ZOS has removed one problem and added another.

If you can hit these groups when Earthgore is down you can instant wipe most of them..Problem is they all have multiple Earthgores.

I'm sure after they nerf Earthgore ZOS will add something else stupid to make stacking keep on trucking as well.

Any experienced player that I know who run in an organized group agrees that earthgore is a plague and should have never existed. I don't think it gives an edge to organized groups more than pugs. It is a problem as a whole and need to be gone entirely, not nerfed or changed.

I completely agree with Frozn here, as does anyone in my guild I've talked to about this (and trust me, we've belabored this subject in our Discord ad nauseaum).

Earthgore should never have made it past QA, let alone to live servers.

The best response to it in its current state is to remove it and replace it with something else. Whether that be changing the procc on it to something else entirely, or just gifting a whole bunch of Dreugh Wax and Tempers to those players that own them and removing them from the game.

It's awful. It's pay to win (you have to own the DLC to get it). It's imbalanced. It's like old Malubeth on a group level, plus ground effect removal. Malubeth deserved the nerf it got, and there's no reason that Earthgore should have ever been allowed to exist in an even worse state.

It's the current crutch that large groups use to circumvent mistakes. If this was out of the game, there would be a lot more wiping going on of said destro ball groups. I have watched (and participated in) so many large groups taking coordinated mass attacks that would have wiped them pre-Earthgore only to soldier on through it. It's the reason why, when small manning on off nights, our 6-10 man groups can't take down a full raid group reliably, even when that raid group makes a major mistake. It covers for bad play, and anything that does so thoroughly is bad for game balance and especially bad for PVP balance.

So would you say that there shouldn't be a good healing Undaunted set then? Earthgore, even after the nerf next update, will still be the only decent healing set and will still be used by just every raid healer/support player because frankly every other healing focused set is complete garbage. They're either single target or ridiculously small AoE.

Agrippa_Invisus

Sandman929 wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone wanted caps removed so they could deal with these groups easier.

Now the caps are gone and people are still mad at organised train groups.

It was never the aoe cap that was the issue. It was and is Purge.

Disagree, AOE caps was certainly the issue.

Now its Earthgore that's the new Issue...Basically ZOS has removed one problem and added another.

If you can hit these groups when Earthgore is down you can instant wipe most of them..Problem is they all have multiple Earthgores.

I'm sure after they nerf Earthgore ZOS will add something else stupid to make stacking keep on trucking as well.

Any experienced player that I know who run in an organized group agrees that earthgore is a plague and should have never existed. I don't think it gives an edge to organized groups more than pugs. It is a problem as a whole and need to be gone entirely, not nerfed or changed.

I completely agree with Frozn here, as does anyone in my guild I've talked to about this (and trust me, we've belabored this subject in our Discord ad nauseaum).

Earthgore should never have made it past QA, let alone to live servers.

The best response to it in its current state is to remove it and replace it with something else. Whether that be changing the procc on it to something else entirely, or just gifting a whole bunch of Dreugh Wax and Tempers to those players that own them and removing them from the game.

It's awful. It's pay to win (you have to own the DLC to get it). It's imbalanced. It's like old Malubeth on a group level, plus ground effect removal. Malubeth deserved the nerf it got, and there's no reason that Earthgore should have ever been allowed to exist in an even worse state.

It's the current crutch that large groups use to circumvent mistakes. If this was out of the game, there would be a lot more wiping going on of said destro ball groups. I have watched (and participated in) so many large groups taking coordinated mass attacks that would have wiped them pre-Earthgore only to soldier on through it. It's the reason why, when small manning on off nights, our 6-10 man groups can't take down a full raid group reliably, even when that raid group makes a major mistake. It covers for bad play, and anything that does so thoroughly is bad for game balance and especially bad for PVP balance.

So would you say that there shouldn't be a good healing Undaunted set then? Earthgore, even after the nerf next update, will still be the only decent healing set and will still be used by just every raid healer/support player because frankly every other healing focused set is complete garbage. They're either single target or ridiculously small AoE.

I'm against the concept of procc sets in general.

So my answer is -- there shouldn't be anything that mindlessly performs the function that a player should be performing, whether it be tanking, DPSing, or healing.

If your healer screws up and isn't on the ball, they don't deserve to be bailed out, and deserve to wipe. In PVE or PVP.

If your group leader puts your group in a bad situation, they don't deserved to be bailed out, and deserve to wipe. In PVE or PVP.

Sandman929

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone wanted caps removed so they could deal with these groups easier.

Now the caps are gone and people are still mad at organised train groups.

It was never the aoe cap that was the issue. It was and is Purge.

Disagree, AOE caps was certainly the issue.

Now its Earthgore that's the new Issue...Basically ZOS has removed one problem and added another.

If you can hit these groups when Earthgore is down you can instant wipe most of them..Problem is they all have multiple Earthgores.

I'm sure after they nerf Earthgore ZOS will add something else stupid to make stacking keep on trucking as well.

Any experienced player that I know who run in an organized group agrees that earthgore is a plague and should have never existed. I don't think it gives an edge to organized groups more than pugs. It is a problem as a whole and need to be gone entirely, not nerfed or changed.

I completely agree with Frozn here, as does anyone in my guild I've talked to about this (and trust me, we've belabored this subject in our Discord ad nauseaum).

Earthgore should never have made it past QA, let alone to live servers.

The best response to it in its current state is to remove it and replace it with something else. Whether that be changing the procc on it to something else entirely, or just gifting a whole bunch of Dreugh Wax and Tempers to those players that own them and removing them from the game.

It's awful. It's pay to win (you have to own the DLC to get it). It's imbalanced. It's like old Malubeth on a group level, plus ground effect removal. Malubeth deserved the nerf it got, and there's no reason that Earthgore should have ever been allowed to exist in an even worse state.

It's the current crutch that large groups use to circumvent mistakes. If this was out of the game, there would be a lot more wiping going on of said destro ball groups. I have watched (and participated in) so many large groups taking coordinated mass attacks that would have wiped them pre-Earthgore only to soldier on through it. It's the reason why, when small manning on off nights, our 6-10 man groups can't take down a full raid group reliably, even when that raid group makes a major mistake. It covers for bad play, and anything that does so thoroughly is bad for game balance and especially bad for PVP balance.

So would you say that there shouldn't be a good healing Undaunted set then? Earthgore, even after the nerf next update, will still be the only decent healing set and will still be used by just every raid healer/support player because frankly every other healing focused set is complete garbage. They're either single target or ridiculously small AoE.

I'm against the concept of procc sets in general.

So my answer is -- there shouldn't be anything that mindlessly performs the function that a player should be performing, whether it be tanking, DPSing, or healing.

If your healer screws up and isn't on the ball, they don't deserve to be bailed out, and deserve to wipe. In PVE or PVP.

If your group leader puts your group in a bad situation, they don't deserved to be bailed out, and deserve to wipe. In PVE or PVP.

That's a pretty big "shouldn't" since there are very good damage, tanking, procs in the Undaunted Sets, but no one seems to advocate as fiercely for their removal like they do with the one good healing set.

ToRelax

Sandman929 wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone wanted caps removed so they could deal with these groups easier.

Now the caps are gone and people are still mad at organised train groups.

It was never the aoe cap that was the issue. It was and is Purge.

Disagree, AOE caps was certainly the issue.

Now its Earthgore that's the new Issue...Basically ZOS has removed one problem and added another.

If you can hit these groups when Earthgore is down you can instant wipe most of them..Problem is they all have multiple Earthgores.

I'm sure after they nerf Earthgore ZOS will add something else stupid to make stacking keep on trucking as well.

Any experienced player that I know who run in an organized group agrees that earthgore is a plague and should have never existed. I don't think it gives an edge to organized groups more than pugs. It is a problem as a whole and need to be gone entirely, not nerfed or changed.

I completely agree with Frozn here, as does anyone in my guild I've talked to about this (and trust me, we've belabored this subject in our Discord ad nauseaum).

Earthgore should never have made it past QA, let alone to live servers.

The best response to it in its current state is to remove it and replace it with something else. Whether that be changing the procc on it to something else entirely, or just gifting a whole bunch of Dreugh Wax and Tempers to those players that own them and removing them from the game.

It's awful. It's pay to win (you have to own the DLC to get it). It's imbalanced. It's like old Malubeth on a group level, plus ground effect removal. Malubeth deserved the nerf it got, and there's no reason that Earthgore should have ever been allowed to exist in an even worse state.

It's the current crutch that large groups use to circumvent mistakes. If this was out of the game, there would be a lot more wiping going on of said destro ball groups. I have watched (and participated in) so many large groups taking coordinated mass attacks that would have wiped them pre-Earthgore only to soldier on through it. It's the reason why, when small manning on off nights, our 6-10 man groups can't take down a full raid group reliably, even when that raid group makes a major mistake. It covers for bad play, and anything that does so thoroughly is bad for game balance and especially bad for PVP balance.

So would you say that there shouldn't be a good healing Undaunted set then? Earthgore, even after the nerf next update, will still be the only decent healing set and will still be used by just every raid healer/support player because frankly every other healing focused set is complete garbage. They're either single target or ridiculously small AoE.

I'm against the concept of procc sets in general.

So my answer is -- there shouldn't be anything that mindlessly performs the function that a player should be performing, whether it be tanking, DPSing, or healing.

If your healer screws up and isn't on the ball, they don't deserve to be bailed out, and deserve to wipe. In PVE or PVP.

If your group leader puts your group in a bad situation, they don't deserved to be bailed out, and deserve to wipe. In PVE or PVP.

That's a pretty big "shouldn't" since there are very good damage, tanking, procs in the Undaunted Sets, but no one seems to advocate as fiercely for their removal like they do with the one good healing set.

They did when those sets where introduced, and in some cases there are still regular threads about them, like Zaan or Skoria.
These also don't have nearly as much an effect on large scale PvP, while Earth Gore is still pretty insance in small scale.

Agrippa_Invisus

Sandman929 wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Everyone wanted caps removed so they could deal with these groups easier.

Now the caps are gone and people are still mad at organised train groups.

It was never the aoe cap that was the issue. It was and is Purge.

Disagree, AOE caps was certainly the issue.

Now its Earthgore that's the new Issue...Basically ZOS has removed one problem and added another.

If you can hit these groups when Earthgore is down you can instant wipe most of them..Problem is they all have multiple Earthgores.

I'm sure after they nerf Earthgore ZOS will add something else stupid to make stacking keep on trucking as well.

Any experienced player that I know who run in an organized group agrees that earthgore is a plague and should have never existed. I don't think it gives an edge to organized groups more than pugs. It is a problem as a whole and need to be gone entirely, not nerfed or changed.

I completely agree with Frozn here, as does anyone in my guild I've talked to about this (and trust me, we've belabored this subject in our Discord ad nauseaum).

Earthgore should never have made it past QA, let alone to live servers.

The best response to it in its current state is to remove it and replace it with something else. Whether that be changing the procc on it to something else entirely, or just gifting a whole bunch of Dreugh Wax and Tempers to those players that own them and removing them from the game.

It's awful. It's pay to win (you have to own the DLC to get it). It's imbalanced. It's like old Malubeth on a group level, plus ground effect removal. Malubeth deserved the nerf it got, and there's no reason that Earthgore should have ever been allowed to exist in an even worse state.

It's the current crutch that large groups use to circumvent mistakes. If this was out of the game, there would be a lot more wiping going on of said destro ball groups. I have watched (and participated in) so many large groups taking coordinated mass attacks that would have wiped them pre-Earthgore only to soldier on through it. It's the reason why, when small manning on off nights, our 6-10 man groups can't take down a full raid group reliably, even when that raid group makes a major mistake. It covers for bad play, and anything that does so thoroughly is bad for game balance and especially bad for PVP balance.

So would you say that there shouldn't be a good healing Undaunted set then? Earthgore, even after the nerf next update, will still be the only decent healing set and will still be used by just every raid healer/support player because frankly every other healing focused set is complete garbage. They're either single target or ridiculously small AoE.

I'm against the concept of procc sets in general.

So my answer is -- there shouldn't be anything that mindlessly performs the function that a player should be performing, whether it be tanking, DPSing, or healing.

If your healer screws up and isn't on the ball, they don't deserve to be bailed out, and deserve to wipe. In PVE or PVP.

If your group leader puts your group in a bad situation, they don't deserved to be bailed out, and deserve to wipe. In PVE or PVP.

That's a pretty big "shouldn't" since there are very good damage, tanking, procs in the Undaunted Sets, but no one seems to advocate as fiercely for their removal like they do with the one good healing set.

People have been railing against procc sets since they came out. There's a reason sets like Viper have been nerfed, and other given very obvious telegraphs.

But none of them have the impact that Earthgore does, keeping entire raids from being killed when sustaining mass incoming damage, all without player input.

It's the most glaring example of the failures of crutching on procc sets when designing new gear.

Xsorus

Earthgore would be fine if it procced when you SINGLE target healed someone below 60% life.

That way the Healer would at least have to click on someone and heal them before it procced

Right now its just a way for Zergs to be saved from Bombers or when they make mistakes.

Its 100% designed for Ball Groups.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Xsorus wrote: »

Earthgore would be fine if it procced when you SINGLE target healed someone below 60% life.

That way the Healer would at least have to click on someone and heal them before it procced

Right now its just a way for Zergs to be saved from Bombers or when they make mistakes.

Its 100% designed for Ball Groups.

Actually it's design was for pugs who keep getting destro bombed and complaining about "ball groups" blindly.
Like every other attempted balancing set for playstyles use them in a coordinated manor and they enhance groups not detract from them.

Also if they removed EG it wouldn't mean players in group would die more often they would just change their builds to compensate

DivineFirstYOLO

highnds wrote: »

Thankfully some of those psijic skills might help nullify that crap

A wise man once said: every tool that unorganised zerglings can use against ball groups, that ball groups can use against zerglings too.