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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
For anyone wondering what the intentions of crowncrates
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CurlyQTip✭✭✭Pretty eye opening statistics that makes me never want to support this game ever again. I'll just leave this here and before all the you don't have to buy them comments. There is no defending this. I’m pretty sure they only give free crates out to trigger people to buy more once they’ve opened them. Didn’t get something you wanted? Maybe you’re more likely to get it next time. Got something good? Well why not just buy a few more in case you get something else you might like.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8dasjl/crown_crate_statistical_analysis_how_much_do/
If people can't control their gambling addiction it's honestly their fault.
I get crates from my subscription every month for *** and giggles and It doesn't force me to pay more. I'm a healthy individual. You're supposed to be be an adult to play this game, so you're supposed to be responsible.
Not directly aiming this at anyone here but my opinion is... If you feel like you can't live without some extra shiny pixels in a virtual world, it's really not the company's fault and you should probably seek medical help if you feel forced to spend more than you want to.
Unless you make enough money to pay for it all with no consequences I guess. Then good for you.
If this ends up making the game suck in the long run and make the company more focused on profits, then its not going to hurt me. I'll take my leave eventually as will others. It's a game, it's a waste of time you chose to be a part of, there are far more important things in life than this, it's not some damn meaning of life, folks.
it's a very hurtful sentiment to blame people for their addictions because a lot of the time, they're doing it (this can be applied to drugs and alcohol as well), in order to cope with personal issues. It's a very out of control habit and mentality that can require years of intervention and therapy to fix, and its usually very deeply rooted into their personalities, to the point where they think that they'll eventually win big no matter how much trouble it gets them into. There is a lot of psychology behind it though and I'm not a psychologist, so I'm not going to pretend to be a super-genius know it all on the topic.
But whatever the hell I'm saying is basically just that like hey, lets not point fingers and blame people. Yeah they can do what they want with their money, I agree, but it's not as simple as you think.Istoppucks wrote: »Pretty eye opening statistics that makes me never want to support this game ever again. I'll just leave this here and before all the you don't have to buy them comments. There is no defending this. I’m pretty sure they only give free crates out to trigger people to buy more once they’ve opened them. Didn’t get something you wanted? Maybe you’re more likely to get it next time. Got something good? Well why not just buy a few more in case you get something else you might like.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8dasjl/crown_crate_statistical_analysis_how_much_do/
Not eye opening at all.
Gambling is an addiction that will, in time, take everything from you. If you are an adult, you should know this. If you are a kid you should not be participating (hence all the legal hullabaloo going on right now.)
Eso is rated "M" if a kid is playing and spending his parents money Thats an issue for the parents not ZOS.
Can you show me the part of the M rating that mentions gambling? I'll wait.
I'd like to note too, that Teen, a step below M, mentions 'Simulated gambling'. https://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.aspx
Gambling laws in the US are restricted to 21 as far as I can tell. And loot boxes are using real money, they're far from 'simulated', they involve actual real gambling for something that is loss, only in this case you don't get anything tangible that you can use outside of the game meaning you're pretty much gambling at loss no matter what.
This is the US however, different places different rules.If people really wanted to make a difference with crown crafte, or "shady" business practices, they would quit the game. I'm not talking about not playing for a few months and popping back in to see what's up, really quitting. Stop playing, uninstall the game, and stop posting in the *** forums with this useless argument that is going to sway absolutely no one. These posts are so stupid. They have no point but to incite pissing contests between anonymous strangers. If you want to make a real point, stop posting, and actually walk away from the game, and leave the ones that like the game, the direction it is going, and yes, the crown crates to enjoy their personal freedoms have their fun.
The forums are meant to ask questions, find answers, discuss in game problems, and share fun ESO stories. It has turned into entitled whiners, and bossy control freaks. Go play the game, or go away. Drop this argument going nowhere, that helps nothing.
I actually do not have any issue with the existence of the Crown (or Clown, is that what people are saying now?) Crates because I view them as a necessary evil due to the game being on this B2P format. MMOs aren't meant to exist on this format
ZOS needs to make money, or else the game will cease to exist. I like this game and want to continue playing, therefore, I am happy that ZOS is raking in an adequate income that will allow the game to continue.
Here's a suggestion to the Crown Crate haters: your hatred is warranted, probably, because ZOS is, of course, nothing more than a greedy corporation. hint: all corporations are that. So, if you are not a fan of the crates-- Ignore them. Don't partake. Spend your time or crowns on something else and be happy that the game is able to continue existing.
Their entire business model doesn't exist solely for loot boxes, and if it does their company is going to collapse if lawmakers dig into them for it. That would demonstrate a total failure to adapt to a market.
If they depend that hard on crates and aren't able to sell them because they become illegal or something, I'm not going to shed a tear because they failed to make money. If you want to sustain a good playerbase and thus good money, do it on something that isn't exploitative.
F.Y.I. There are many games that rake in a very large amount of money, designed by companies that want to make money, without lootboxes. They aren't required to make money dude, this company isn't shaking its mug for rent to pay for the servers, come on.
Outside of that don't give people the 'don't like it don't buy it' argument. People have been banging that "don't buy it" drum for almost a decade now, and yet companies are doing more and more aggressive and anti-consumer things because people are following this logic of merely not buying and also not even talking about it at all. Discussion is literally a huge part of every community and being able to discuss the good and bad of every aspect of the thing the community surrounds is incredibly important.
Like yeah, not buying it will prevent it, but it also doesn't help enough and actually going out and making arguments that others can follow will. Ignoring it alone doesn't stop companies from going out of their way to market and manipulate people into gambling loops.
I still admire the game for the incredible work the developers put into it, but I can still hate what the company that owns it does to said game at the same time.Edited by CurlyQTip on April 20, 2018 6:07AMSignatures are for losers7 -
TelvanniWizard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭120 usd for a digital mount... That´s why I no longer buy crowns nor support the game financially.5 -
maroite✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Charliff1966 wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Thing is, those odds aren't even official.
At least my state lottery has to be upfront and honest about the odds of (not) breaking even and the various levels of prizes.
Even with the odds known whales keep spending. The thrill for me always has been the small chance i have in getting something. Upfront i know what i want to spend and never go above that amount.
That's why people love a casino, a lottery, just the small chance in winning something. That industry earns billions.
Using this definition - A person who spend incredible amount of money in gacha type games which makes him/her ultra powerful and godlike.
I keep seeing this in game forums and I have to say......don't you mean something like Spendthrift, profligate, wastrel, squanderer?
Those words are not necessarily synonyms to "whale". As an example, wastrel isn't specific to spending money. Someone who has no job and sits at home playing there 14 alts all day and voicing opinions about not being able to afford to buy items from the game shop could be considered a wastrel.
The only one that is close is Spendthrift but its not necessarily the same. I think the major difference is that the all of the words you mention are derogatory in context, whale is a generalized description where the meaning is interpreted.0 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭How dare Costco give out free samples of food when I'm shopping! It's their fault I'm fat! smh!@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
Sanguine & Psijic Group Beta Tester.
NA Server:Steforax Soulstrong CH782 Sorcerer ADEU Server:
Grumpy Kahjiti CH782 Dragonknight AD
Rheticia Le Drakisius CH782 Nightblade DC
Razmuzan Thrasmas CH782 Templar EP
Sheenara Soulstrong CH782 Dragonknight DC
Erik Ramzey CH782 Nightblade AD
Growling Kahjiti CH782 Nightblade EP
One of Many Faces CH782 Sorcerer DC
Grumpasaurus Rex CH782 Warden DCGuildmaster of Pacrooti's Hirelings AD Based LGBT Friendly Guild.
Stefrex Souliss CH701 Sorcerer AD
Grumpy Kahjiti CH701 Dragonknight DC
Slithisi Ksissi CH701 Nightblade EP
Pokes-With-Fire CH701 Dragonknight AD
Josie-The-Pussi-Cat CH701 Templar AD
Stug-Grog M'God CH701 Templar DC
One With Many Faces CH701 Nightblade DC
Trixie Truskan CH701 Sorcerer EP
Grumpetasaurus Rex CH701 Warden EP0 -
Stewart1874✭✭✭✭✭Stewart1874 wrote: »
Virtually all new content is via Crown Crates, if you want to buy new content invariably you will need to buy crown crates to obtain that content.. sorry I mean have a chance of obtaining that conent. The decision to remove or fail to offer an alternative means to gain new content you're FORCED to gamble.
I'd class a 0.2% chance of getting a reward they use as their centre piece to the marketing campaign each Crown Crate run as ripping us off. (Unless Zo$ want to be transparent about their Crates and offer up the exact drop rates?)
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
Wait what?
I didn't realize dragon bones DLC <BTW really good dungeons> is behind a crown crate.
I must have been really lucky. Everyone I know got it first timeDieAlteHexe wrote: »Stewart1874 wrote: »Thing is, ZOS isn't FORCING us to buy these crates. You can't blame something just for existing more than you can blame those who make the conscious choice to partake. And I at least know I'm not the one who's shoving hundreds into these crates. At MOST I've ever done is buy the 15 pack one time, I don't buy any more even if I don't get anything good. And even then most of these seasons so far didn't have stuff I wanted.
Zenimax is a business. As long as they're not downright ripping us off or committing fraud with our cash, they can do what they want.
Virtually all new content is via Crown Crates, if you want to buy new content invariably you will need to buy crown crates to obtain that content.. sorry I mean have a chance of obtaining that conent. The decision to remove or fail to offer an alternative means to gain new content you're FORCED to gamble.
I'd class a 0.2% chance of getting a reward they use as their centre piece to the marketing campaign each Crown Crate run as ripping us off. (Unless Zo$ want to be transparent about their Crates and offer up the exact drop rates?)
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
What? Just today there was new stuff added that wasn't in Crown Crates. Costumes, dyes, pets etc.
I'm assuming english isn't your first language, First word of my post 'Virtually' means nearly or almost. I.e Nearly or Almost all content is behind the Crown Crates. That is an accurate view.Stewart1874 wrote: »Thing is, ZOS isn't FORCING us to buy these crates. You can't blame something just for existing more than you can blame those who make the conscious choice to partake. And I at least know I'm not the one who's shoving hundreds into these crates. At MOST I've ever done is buy the 15 pack one time, I don't buy any more even if I don't get anything good. And even then most of these seasons so far didn't have stuff I wanted.
Zenimax is a business. As long as they're not downright ripping us off or committing fraud with our cash, they can do what they want.
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
One, I wrote no excuses. And two, what is that supposed to mean? You don't like corporations? They exist cause that's the wonderful world of Capitalism our forefathers created. And I'm not about to become a 99%er fanatic aiming to tear down Society so things can be different.
Everything obtainable via Crown Crates besides experience scrolls and the like are purely cosmetic additions. Everything concerning gameplay is still offered for base amounts to purchase to own. I'd be right there with you if I had to gamble to get access to Summerset, but I don't so I don't see an issue.
Those absolutely are excuses man! Don't lie
Regulated Capitalism is great, unregulated capitalism is not. Businesses have a responsibility to more than just their shareholders nowadays. Loot crates are gambling and in their current form unregulated. There is zero transparency or best practise standards on the implementation of them meaning like with Star Wars Battlefront 2 , companies want to see just how far they can push the consumer. I find that morally wrong. No one is saying Zo$ don't have a right to make money but the manner they choose to do it it leaves a very bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.PS4 - Europe - Aldmeri Dominion6 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stewart1874 wrote: »Stewart1874 wrote: »
Virtually all new content is via Crown Crates, if you want to buy new content invariably you will need to buy crown crates to obtain that content.. sorry I mean have a chance of obtaining that conent. The decision to remove or fail to offer an alternative means to gain new content you're FORCED to gamble.
I'd class a 0.2% chance of getting a reward they use as their centre piece to the marketing campaign each Crown Crate run as ripping us off. (Unless Zo$ want to be transparent about their Crates and offer up the exact drop rates?)
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
Wait what?
I didn't realize dragon bones DLC <BTW really good dungeons> is behind a crown crate.
I must have been really lucky. Everyone I know got it first timeDieAlteHexe wrote: »Stewart1874 wrote: »Thing is, ZOS isn't FORCING us to buy these crates. You can't blame something just for existing more than you can blame those who make the conscious choice to partake. And I at least know I'm not the one who's shoving hundreds into these crates. At MOST I've ever done is buy the 15 pack one time, I don't buy any more even if I don't get anything good. And even then most of these seasons so far didn't have stuff I wanted.
Zenimax is a business. As long as they're not downright ripping us off or committing fraud with our cash, they can do what they want.
Virtually all new content is via Crown Crates, if you want to buy new content invariably you will need to buy crown crates to obtain that content.. sorry I mean have a chance of obtaining that conent. The decision to remove or fail to offer an alternative means to gain new content you're FORCED to gamble.
I'd class a 0.2% chance of getting a reward they use as their centre piece to the marketing campaign each Crown Crate run as ripping us off. (Unless Zo$ want to be transparent about their Crates and offer up the exact drop rates?)
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
What? Just today there was new stuff added that wasn't in Crown Crates. Costumes, dyes, pets etc.
I'm assuming english isn't your first language, First word of my post 'Virtually' means nearly or almost. I.e Nearly or Almost all content is behind the Crown Crates. That is an accurate view.Stewart1874 wrote: »Thing is, ZOS isn't FORCING us to buy these crates. You can't blame something just for existing more than you can blame those who make the conscious choice to partake. And I at least know I'm not the one who's shoving hundreds into these crates. At MOST I've ever done is buy the 15 pack one time, I don't buy any more even if I don't get anything good. And even then most of these seasons so far didn't have stuff I wanted.
Zenimax is a business. As long as they're not downright ripping us off or committing fraud with our cash, they can do what they want.
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
One, I wrote no excuses. And two, what is that supposed to mean? You don't like corporations? They exist cause that's the wonderful world of Capitalism our forefathers created. And I'm not about to become a 99%er fanatic aiming to tear down Society so things can be different.
Everything obtainable via Crown Crates besides experience scrolls and the like are purely cosmetic additions. Everything concerning gameplay is still offered for base amounts to purchase to own. I'd be right there with you if I had to gamble to get access to Summerset, but I don't so I don't see an issue.
Those absolutely are excuses man! Don't lie
Regulated Capitalism is great, unregulated capitalism is not. Businesses have a responsibility to more than just their shareholders nowadays. Loot crates are gambling and in their current form unregulated. There is zero transparency or best practise standards on the implementation of them meaning like with Star Wars Battlefront 2 , companies want to see just how far they can push the consumer. I find that morally wrong. No one is saying Zo$ don't have a right to make money but the manner they choose to do it it leaves a very bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.
Ouch. Who micturated in your porridge this morning?
I think I'll just sit corrected and wish you a good day.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0 -
firedrgn✭✭✭✭✭I cant really rip the op a new one with out being self defeating. Crown crates are on the bottom of my list tho.0
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Istoppucks✭✭✭✭Istoppucks wrote: »Pretty eye opening statistics that makes me never want to support this game ever again. I'll just leave this here and before all the you don't have to buy them comments. There is no defending this. I’m pretty sure they only give free crates out to trigger people to buy more once they’ve opened them. Didn’t get something you wanted? Maybe you’re more likely to get it next time. Got something good? Well why not just buy a few more in case you get something else you might like.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8dasjl/crown_crate_statistical_analysis_how_much_do/
Not eye opening at all.
Gambling is an addiction that will, in time, take everything from you. If you are an adult, you should know this. If you are a kid you should not be participating (hence all the legal hullabaloo going on right now.)
Eso is rated "M" if a kid is playing and spending his parents money Thats an issue for the parents not ZOS.
Can you show me the part of the M rating that mentions gambling? I'll wait.
First go back and read the conversation not just knit pick one comment. He was crying about kids playing the game. The game is mature rated and its not ZOS fault if parents allow their kids to play a mature rated game.
Second according to the definition of "gamble" loot crates in eso are not gambling.
gam·ble
ˈɡambəl/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: gambling
1. play games of chance for MONEY; bet.
Based on the legal definition of gambling multiple governments have come out and Stated loot boxes are not gambling .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2017/12/16/16785474/loot-boxes-gambling-law-government-star-wars-battlefront-2
https://www.pcgamer.com/uk-gambling-commission-restates-that-loot-boxes-are-not-gambling/
Edited by Istoppucks on April 20, 2018 11:16AM2 -
Istoppucks✭✭✭✭Stewart1874 wrote: »Stewart1874 wrote: »
Virtually all new content is via Crown Crates, if you want to buy new content invariably you will need to buy crown crates to obtain that content.. sorry I mean have a chance of obtaining that conent. The decision to remove or fail to offer an alternative means to gain new content you're FORCED to gamble.
I'd class a 0.2% chance of getting a reward they use as their centre piece to the marketing campaign each Crown Crate run as ripping us off. (Unless Zo$ want to be transparent about their Crates and offer up the exact drop rates?)
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
Wait what?
I didn't realize dragon bones DLC <BTW really good dungeons> is behind a crown crate.
I must have been really lucky. Everyone I know got it first timeDieAlteHexe wrote: »Stewart1874 wrote: »Thing is, ZOS isn't FORCING us to buy these crates. You can't blame something just for existing more than you can blame those who make the conscious choice to partake. And I at least know I'm not the one who's shoving hundreds into these crates. At MOST I've ever done is buy the 15 pack one time, I don't buy any more even if I don't get anything good. And even then most of these seasons so far didn't have stuff I wanted.
Zenimax is a business. As long as they're not downright ripping us off or committing fraud with our cash, they can do what they want.
Virtually all new content is via Crown Crates, if you want to buy new content invariably you will need to buy crown crates to obtain that content.. sorry I mean have a chance of obtaining that conent. The decision to remove or fail to offer an alternative means to gain new content you're FORCED to gamble.
I'd class a 0.2% chance of getting a reward they use as their centre piece to the marketing campaign each Crown Crate run as ripping us off. (Unless Zo$ want to be transparent about their Crates and offer up the exact drop rates?)
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
What? Just today there was new stuff added that wasn't in Crown Crates. Costumes, dyes, pets etc.
I'm assuming english isn't your first language, First word of my post 'Virtually' means nearly or almost. I.e Nearly or Almost all content is behind the Crown Crates. That is an accurate view.Stewart1874 wrote: »Thing is, ZOS isn't FORCING us to buy these crates. You can't blame something just for existing more than you can blame those who make the conscious choice to partake. And I at least know I'm not the one who's shoving hundreds into these crates. At MOST I've ever done is buy the 15 pack one time, I don't buy any more even if I don't get anything good. And even then most of these seasons so far didn't have stuff I wanted.
Zenimax is a business. As long as they're not downright ripping us off or committing fraud with our cash, they can do what they want.
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
One, I wrote no excuses. And two, what is that supposed to mean? You don't like corporations? They exist cause that's the wonderful world of Capitalism our forefathers created. And I'm not about to become a 99%er fanatic aiming to tear down Society so things can be different.
Everything obtainable via Crown Crates besides experience scrolls and the like are purely cosmetic additions. Everything concerning gameplay is still offered for base amounts to purchase to own. I'd be right there with you if I had to gamble to get access to Summerset, but I don't so I don't see an issue.
Those absolutely are excuses man! Don't lie
Regulated Capitalism is great, unregulated capitalism is not. Businesses have a responsibility to more than just their shareholders nowadays. Loot crates are gambling and in their current form unregulated. There is zero transparency or best practise standards on the implementation of them meaning like with Star Wars Battlefront 2 , companies want to see just how far they can push the consumer. I find that morally wrong. No one is saying Zo$ don't have a right to make money but the manner they choose to do it it leaves a very bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.
My intention here is not to embarrass you (although im sure it will) it is to educate those like you.
Here are the FACTS Loot crates in most mmorpgs including eso are NOT gambling. In the real world FACTS are what matter not unhinged, uneducated emotions with a hint if bias, FACTS are what matter.
In most countries the LEGAL DEFINITION OF GAMBLE is:
gam·ble
ˈɡambəl/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: gambling
1. play games of chance for MONEY; bet.
Based on the legal definition of gambling multiple governments have come out and Stated loot boxes are not gambling .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2017/12/16/16785474/loot-boxes-gambling-law-government-star-wars-battlefront-2
https://www.pcgamer.com/uk-gambling-commission-restates-that-loot-boxes-are-not-gambling/
So please stop with this loot boxes are gambling because they are not.0 -
maroite✭✭✭Stewart1874 wrote: »Stewart1874 wrote: »
Virtually all new content is via Crown Crates, if you want to buy new content invariably you will need to buy crown crates to obtain that content.. sorry I mean have a chance of obtaining that conent. The decision to remove or fail to offer an alternative means to gain new content you're FORCED to gamble.
I'd class a 0.2% chance of getting a reward they use as their centre piece to the marketing campaign each Crown Crate run as ripping us off. (Unless Zo$ want to be transparent about their Crates and offer up the exact drop rates?)
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
Wait what?
I didn't realize dragon bones DLC <BTW really good dungeons> is behind a crown crate.
I must have been really lucky. Everyone I know got it first timeDieAlteHexe wrote: »Stewart1874 wrote: »Thing is, ZOS isn't FORCING us to buy these crates. You can't blame something just for existing more than you can blame those who make the conscious choice to partake. And I at least know I'm not the one who's shoving hundreds into these crates. At MOST I've ever done is buy the 15 pack one time, I don't buy any more even if I don't get anything good. And even then most of these seasons so far didn't have stuff I wanted.
Zenimax is a business. As long as they're not downright ripping us off or committing fraud with our cash, they can do what they want.
Virtually all new content is via Crown Crates, if you want to buy new content invariably you will need to buy crown crates to obtain that content.. sorry I mean have a chance of obtaining that conent. The decision to remove or fail to offer an alternative means to gain new content you're FORCED to gamble.
I'd class a 0.2% chance of getting a reward they use as their centre piece to the marketing campaign each Crown Crate run as ripping us off. (Unless Zo$ want to be transparent about their Crates and offer up the exact drop rates?)
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
What? Just today there was new stuff added that wasn't in Crown Crates. Costumes, dyes, pets etc.
I'm assuming english isn't your first language, First word of my post 'Virtually' means nearly or almost. I.e Nearly or Almost all content is behind the Crown Crates. That is an accurate view.Stewart1874 wrote: »Thing is, ZOS isn't FORCING us to buy these crates. You can't blame something just for existing more than you can blame those who make the conscious choice to partake. And I at least know I'm not the one who's shoving hundreds into these crates. At MOST I've ever done is buy the 15 pack one time, I don't buy any more even if I don't get anything good. And even then most of these seasons so far didn't have stuff I wanted.
Zenimax is a business. As long as they're not downright ripping us off or committing fraud with our cash, they can do what they want.
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
One, I wrote no excuses. And two, what is that supposed to mean? You don't like corporations? They exist cause that's the wonderful world of Capitalism our forefathers created. And I'm not about to become a 99%er fanatic aiming to tear down Society so things can be different.
Everything obtainable via Crown Crates besides experience scrolls and the like are purely cosmetic additions. Everything concerning gameplay is still offered for base amounts to purchase to own. I'd be right there with you if I had to gamble to get access to Summerset, but I don't so I don't see an issue.
Those absolutely are excuses man! Don't lie
Regulated Capitalism is great, unregulated capitalism is not. Businesses have a responsibility to more than just their shareholders nowadays. Loot crates are gambling and in their current form unregulated. There is zero transparency or best practise standards on the implementation of them meaning like with Star Wars Battlefront 2 , companies want to see just how far they can push the consumer. I find that morally wrong. No one is saying Zo$ don't have a right to make money but the manner they choose to do it it leaves a very bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.
The issue with your definition and application on 'gambling' is how broad a stroke you're making based off of your personal experiences and/or beliefs. Unfortunately or fortunately, your view doesn't necessarily coincide with what the majority of law makers consider to be gambling.
If they did take your view the following items could potentially be targeted by people for legal action, and you would be opening Pandora's box, with the potential to not actually fix the issues you have, but completely ruin gaming.
Examples of things people purchase that are similar to Crown Crates:
Any form of collectible card that randomizes content: Baseball, Basket Ball, Football, American Football Hockey etc. Magic:The Gathering, Yu-gi-oh, Pokemon.
Kinder Eggs
E-Bay Mystery Boxes
Happy Meals and their toys
Some of the Lego Mini series toys
I'm also not sure where you got the idea that businesses have any responsibility for anyone not related to their company. This argument is flawed and a little self centered. Implying that one opinion is best for ALL people and should fit all people is not really a good way to convey something.
You don't like crown crates, or the crown store. Cool. Five other people DO like crown crates, don't mind the store, and are ok with using their money to make purchases. If ZOS has a responsibility to their customers, then they have responsibility for ALL customers. They can try to alleviate your issues, but if they have 5 other people who don't share those issues and who are spending money... well its clear who ZOS is going to lean towards in the end.Edited by maroite on April 20, 2018 11:49AM1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think these discussions are really sad. In former times people would protest if the state was to cut down on options and forbid something. These days people are calling for the state to do exactly that. One has really to wonder if legal prohibition is so popular because people don’t have to think and decide themselves any longer then.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »How dare Costco give out free samples of food when I'm shopping! It's their fault I'm fat! smh!
While you are looking up the definition of a Strawman argument, you should also ponder if you consider gambling to be the same as snacking. It will save you time in coming to the conclusion that your post is nonsense.1 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Istoppucks wrote: »Istoppucks wrote: »Pretty eye opening statistics that makes me never want to support this game ever again. I'll just leave this here and before all the you don't have to buy them comments. There is no defending this. I’m pretty sure they only give free crates out to trigger people to buy more once they’ve opened them. Didn’t get something you wanted? Maybe you’re more likely to get it next time. Got something good? Well why not just buy a few more in case you get something else you might like.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8dasjl/crown_crate_statistical_analysis_how_much_do/
Not eye opening at all.
Gambling is an addiction that will, in time, take everything from you. If you are an adult, you should know this. If you are a kid you should not be participating (hence all the legal hullabaloo going on right now.)
Eso is rated "M" if a kid is playing and spending his parents money Thats an issue for the parents not ZOS.
Can you show me the part of the M rating that mentions gambling? I'll wait.
First go back and read the conversation not just knit pick one comment. He was crying about kids playing the game. The game is mature rated and its not ZOS fault if parents allow their kids to play a mature rated game.
Second according to the definition of "gamble" loot crates in eso are not gambling.
gam·ble
ˈɡambəl/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: gambling
1. play games of chance for MONEY; bet.
Based on the legal definition of gambling multiple governments have come out and Stated loot boxes are not gambling .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2017/12/16/16785474/loot-boxes-gambling-law-government-star-wars-battlefront-2
https://www.pcgamer.com/uk-gambling-commission-restates-that-loot-boxes-are-not-gambling/Istoppucks wrote: »Stewart1874 wrote: »Stewart1874 wrote: »
Virtually all new content is via Crown Crates, if you want to buy new content invariably you will need to buy crown crates to obtain that content.. sorry I mean have a chance of obtaining that conent. The decision to remove or fail to offer an alternative means to gain new content you're FORCED to gamble.
I'd class a 0.2% chance of getting a reward they use as their centre piece to the marketing campaign each Crown Crate run as ripping us off. (Unless Zo$ want to be transparent about their Crates and offer up the exact drop rates?)
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
Wait what?
I didn't realize dragon bones DLC <BTW really good dungeons> is behind a crown crate.
I must have been really lucky. Everyone I know got it first timeDieAlteHexe wrote: »Stewart1874 wrote: »Thing is, ZOS isn't FORCING us to buy these crates. You can't blame something just for existing more than you can blame those who make the conscious choice to partake. And I at least know I'm not the one who's shoving hundreds into these crates. At MOST I've ever done is buy the 15 pack one time, I don't buy any more even if I don't get anything good. And even then most of these seasons so far didn't have stuff I wanted.
Zenimax is a business. As long as they're not downright ripping us off or committing fraud with our cash, they can do what they want.
Virtually all new content is via Crown Crates, if you want to buy new content invariably you will need to buy crown crates to obtain that content.. sorry I mean have a chance of obtaining that conent. The decision to remove or fail to offer an alternative means to gain new content you're FORCED to gamble.
I'd class a 0.2% chance of getting a reward they use as their centre piece to the marketing campaign each Crown Crate run as ripping us off. (Unless Zo$ want to be transparent about their Crates and offer up the exact drop rates?)
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
What? Just today there was new stuff added that wasn't in Crown Crates. Costumes, dyes, pets etc.
I'm assuming english isn't your first language, First word of my post 'Virtually' means nearly or almost. I.e Nearly or Almost all content is behind the Crown Crates. That is an accurate view.Stewart1874 wrote: »Thing is, ZOS isn't FORCING us to buy these crates. You can't blame something just for existing more than you can blame those who make the conscious choice to partake. And I at least know I'm not the one who's shoving hundreds into these crates. At MOST I've ever done is buy the 15 pack one time, I don't buy any more even if I don't get anything good. And even then most of these seasons so far didn't have stuff I wanted.
Zenimax is a business. As long as they're not downright ripping us off or committing fraud with our cash, they can do what they want.
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
One, I wrote no excuses. And two, what is that supposed to mean? You don't like corporations? They exist cause that's the wonderful world of Capitalism our forefathers created. And I'm not about to become a 99%er fanatic aiming to tear down Society so things can be different.
Everything obtainable via Crown Crates besides experience scrolls and the like are purely cosmetic additions. Everything concerning gameplay is still offered for base amounts to purchase to own. I'd be right there with you if I had to gamble to get access to Summerset, but I don't so I don't see an issue.
Those absolutely are excuses man! Don't lie
Regulated Capitalism is great, unregulated capitalism is not. Businesses have a responsibility to more than just their shareholders nowadays. Loot crates are gambling and in their current form unregulated. There is zero transparency or best practise standards on the implementation of them meaning like with Star Wars Battlefront 2 , companies want to see just how far they can push the consumer. I find that morally wrong. No one is saying Zo$ don't have a right to make money but the manner they choose to do it it leaves a very bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.
My intention here is not to embarrass you (although im sure it will) it is to educate those like you.
Here are the FACTS Loot crates in most mmorpgs including eso are NOT gambling. In the real world FACTS are what matter not unhinged, uneducated emotions with a hint if bias, FACTS are what matter.
In most countries the LEGAL DEFINITION OF GAMBLE is:
gam·ble
ˈɡambəl/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: gambling
1. play games of chance for MONEY; bet.
Based on the legal definition of gambling multiple governments have come out and Stated loot boxes are not gambling .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2017/12/16/16785474/loot-boxes-gambling-law-government-star-wars-battlefront-2
https://www.pcgamer.com/uk-gambling-commission-restates-that-loot-boxes-are-not-gambling/
So please stop with this loot boxes are gambling because they are not.
First that was me commenting, I know exactly what I said. If you want to use the term "crying" then I am leaning towards you simply ad-hominem attacking me, which usually means you are feeling a little bit shaky with your argument. But it could be just that you are acting like a jerk.
My point was that parents can decide that they are OK with the animated violence and mature themes in ESO, which are pretty tame by most accounts. Even the "drug use" in the game isn't exactly hardcore. But the Mature rating does not mention "Players may be prompted to purchase loot crates with real money which have a random chance to win in-game items". So even parents who read the ESRB ratings do not have this information.
Also the second line in the article you posted:
"But the commission also acknowledged that the legal definition of gambling isn't necessarily the point." This is the point you are missing. "It's not reeaally gambling" *wink, wink* is just a lawyers way of arguing that their client never broke the law, and while true and no legal punishment should occur, society can still look at the facts and decide that the legal definition may need altering in order to fit the current situation better.
I will also point out that I have no problem from an ethical standpoint with loot crates existing in the game, my problem (you know, what I was crying about) is that the ESRB is a toothless, voluntary system that clearly does not give out all the information to make an informed decision, and that kids are in fact participating in activities, that while perhaps not meeting the legal definition of gambling, only a person with their eyes wide shut could argue are not very similar to gambling in practice.
2 -
eserras7b16_ESO✭✭✭✭Just think ,,,,all those "whales" buying the crates are helping fund this game so you can play. Subs alone can't pay for everything so to get extra revenue the crown shop is needed. Beside no one can tell me how I can spend my money that I earn through work
Those "whales" wich are in most of cases a myth, they have plenty of things to buy to collect as cosmetics and such and the Crowns shop is there to buy expensive things for your house, etc. There was no need to push for the gambling mechanics, crown crates, big publicity screens on log, etc.Eptackt - Argonian Templar
Belegrand - Redguard Nightblade0 -
Orticia✭✭✭✭For me crown crates work because of how i see and use them. Also why I don't mind them, even like them. Note I am just talking about myself and my view and situation. Also it helps that I am absolutely not gamble addiction sensitive. I CAN see how they might pose a danger to some people or why people dislike them.
I get free crates at times... meaning free stuff I might or might not like/care for, but hey free. Got fun stuff like this. Without the crates i doubt they would have been made to begin with. Direct store purchase? Sure but seeing how high (in my opinion) they price that stuff, so high that for me they might as well not exist 99% of the time as I don't think it's worth that much money. And way less likely to get a free gift from there then promotional crown crates.
I never aim for a specific crate item save maybe one in the blue category if I really really like it (happened once with the crow on arm calling memento). Getting the 16 gems together is doable and doesn't break the bank. Especially coupled with the free crate give away gems. All other loot I don't aim for as I can guesstimate my chances. And they sure as heck aren't in my favor. Do I get anything cool in the free crates.... awesome, if not...it's not like I personally would have gotten them otherwise.
Would I rather have more fun stuff earn-able in game instead... hell yeah, but that's another topic.Edited by Orticia on April 20, 2018 12:50PM2 -
Stewart1874✭✭✭✭✭Istoppucks wrote: »
My intention here is not to embarrass you (although im sure it will) it is to educate those like you.
Here are the FACTS Loot crates in most mmorpgs including eso are NOT gambling. In the real world FACTS are what matter not unhinged, uneducated emotions with a hint if bias, FACTS are what matter.
In most countries the LEGAL DEFINITION OF GAMBLE is:
gam·ble
ˈɡambəl/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: gambling
1. play games of chance for MONEY; bet.
Based on the legal definition of gambling multiple governments have come out and Stated loot boxes are not gambling .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2017/12/16/16785474/loot-boxes-gambling-law-government-star-wars-battlefront-2
https://www.pcgamer.com/uk-gambling-commission-restates-that-loot-boxes-are-not-gambling/
So please stop with this loot boxes are gambling because they are not.
It is gambling though. You are playing a game of chance with money without gaining the monetary reward that you would gain from gambling. So in effect it is worse than gambling. Snake oil salesmen will be kicking themselves. We're at a period where loot boxes are still being introduced and not at a point where they are regulated in any way.
Every time you open a loot crate you are gambling that you will get what you want and the sunk cost fallacy is what drives people on to continue sinking money gambling in this way until they eventually perceive that they have 'won'. You're quoting the UK gambling commission's headline - whats the next bloody line?
'But the commission also acknowledged that the legal definition of gambling isn't necessarily the point.'
You want to talk about 'real world FACTS', life isn't black and white, its shades of grey. More often than not things do not snugly fit into neat boxes and this is one of those things, you are participating in a game of chance - hence gambling, with money but not for money - the grey area. What we call it is semantics, the activity is gambling.
The issue with your definition and application on 'gambling' is how broad a stroke you're making based off of your personal experiences and/or beliefs. Unfortunately or fortunately, your view doesn't necessarily coincide with what the majority of law makers consider to be gambling.
If they did take your view the following items could potentially be targeted by people for legal action, and you would be opening Pandora's box, with the potential to not actually fix the issues you have, but completely ruin gaming.
Examples of things people purchase that are similar to Crown Crates:
Any form of collectible card that randomizes content: Baseball, Basket Ball, Football, American Football Hockey etc. Magic:The Gathering, Yu-gi-oh, Pokemon.
Kinder Eggs
E-Bay Mystery Boxes
Happy Meals and their toys
Some of the Lego Mini series toys
I'm also not sure where you got the idea that businesses have any responsibility for anyone not related to their company. This argument is flawed and a little self centered. Implying that one opinion is best for ALL people and should fit all people is not really a good way to convey something.
You don't like crown crates, or the crown store. Cool. Five other people DO like crown crates, don't mind the store, and are ok with using their money to make purchases. If ZOS has a responsibility to their customers, then they have responsibility for ALL customers. They can try to alleviate your issues, but if they have 5 other people who don't share those issues and who are spending money... well its clear who ZOS is going to lean towards in the end.
Zo$ really need to sort the quoting system here, this is *** horrible. Hopefully i've cleaned it up a bit so the quotes i'm replying to are actually whats listed.
Anyway,
I think the correlation between kinder eggs and Happy meal toys is ludicrous and not comparable. In both instances you are buying food and being given a random toy for purchasing the food. Trading cards I had a look online and the answer to that appears to basically be that they're not harmful enough to be considered gambling.
Where I got the idea that businesses have a responsibility beyond their shareholders? Okay, in the modern times the demand on businesses has changed from a shareholder driven view to a stakeholder driven view. This is down to changing demands from consumers, for example many customers take issue with GMO crops and so won't buy produce that comes from GMO farms, minimum wage on employees is another big issue, the living wage has put an expectation on firms being seen to be doing the right thing, look at the heat Bezos at Amazon is taking over the low pay and *** conditions Amazon workers have to work under.
Its not a new concept and for the sake of clarity, i'm not playing in absolutes. I'm not saying that shareholder value is traded at the expense of stakeholder value, that you can only have one. Better practises builds loyalty which in turn builds shareholder value - customers are more loyal etc.
I think ultimately we're having a debate because there is ambiguity and a general lack of clarity/ failure by regulators to act in the consumers interests.Edited by Stewart1874 on April 20, 2018 12:37PMPS4 - Europe - Aldmeri Dominion2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »Just think ,,,,all those "whales" buying the crates are helping fund this game so you can play. Subs alone can't pay for everything so to get extra revenue the crown shop is needed. Beside no one can tell me how I can spend my money that I earn through work
Those "whales" wich are in most of cases a myth, they have plenty of things to buy to collect as cosmetics and such and the Crowns shop is there to buy expensive things for your house, etc. There was no need to push for the gambling mechanics, crown crates, big publicity screens on log, etc.
Of course you would say that. The root of all the complaints is that people somehow think that ZOS would put the crown crate exclusive content into the crown store at reasonable prices if the crates are legally prohibited. It really is “I want a great item for cheap” at the core of the complaint. Just see any discussion about mounts that did cost over 4,000 crowns (Great Elk für example). The publisher is always dubbed ZO$ because things aren’t free or cheap enough.
I doubt these items will appear in the crown store if crates are gone. They’ll find another way of creating an extra revenue stream.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Istoppucks wrote: »Pretty eye opening statistics that makes me never want to support this game ever again. I'll just leave this here and before all the you don't have to buy them comments. There is no defending this. I’m pretty sure they only give free crates out to trigger people to buy more once they’ve opened them. Didn’t get something you wanted? Maybe you’re more likely to get it next time. Got something good? Well why not just buy a few more in case you get something else you might like.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8dasjl/crown_crate_statistical_analysis_how_much_do/
Not eye opening at all.
Gambling is an addiction that will, in time, take everything from you. If you are an adult, you should know this. If you are a kid you should not be participating (hence all the legal hullabaloo going on right now.)
Eso is rated "M" if a kid is playing and spending his parents money Thats an issue for the parents not ZOS.
I like how people completely and utterly ignore that there is a world outside of the US. The rating for ESo in a lot of countries is 16. So there is that. ON TOP OF THAT, M is for ages 17 and up, and last time I checked gambling in the US is 18, or 21 and up. So they would need to change the game to Ao in order to fit your argument, which has always and will always be the death of games.Edited by Jade1986 on April 20, 2018 12:42PM0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Istoppucks wrote: »
Compared to this game, it is into the ground. If you want the populace to dwindle to bare minimum, then by all means, be happy with her being hired.0 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Istoppucks wrote: »Pretty eye opening statistics that makes me never want to support this game ever again. I'll just leave this here and before all the you don't have to buy them comments. There is no defending this. I’m pretty sure they only give free crates out to trigger people to buy more once they’ve opened them. Didn’t get something you wanted? Maybe you’re more likely to get it next time. Got something good? Well why not just buy a few more in case you get something else you might like.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8dasjl/crown_crate_statistical_analysis_how_much_do/
Not eye opening at all.
Gambling is an addiction that will, in time, take everything from you. If you are an adult, you should know this. If you are a kid you should not be participating (hence all the legal hullabaloo going on right now.)
Eso is rated "M" if a kid is playing and spending his parents money Thats an issue for the parents not ZOS.
I like how people completely and utterly ignore that there is a world outside of the US. The rating for ESo in a lot of countries is 16. So there is that.
Eh...Puritanism never quite went away in the States. I LOVED it when I first moved to the EU, the differences were marked and welcome.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake1 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Examples of things people purchase that are similar to Crown Crates:
Any form of collectible card that randomizes content: Baseball, Basket Ball, Football, American Football Hockey etc. Magic:The Gathering, Yu-gi-oh, Pokemon.
Kinder Eggs
E-Bay Mystery Boxes
Happy Meals and their toys
Some of the Lego Mini series toys
First, I would like to note that all the things you listed are sellable and tradeable, whereas everything you buy in the store in bound to you and your account. This is a rather huge distinction as you have no way to get these items other than buying lootboxes, and no way to get rid of extra items that doesn't involve going back to the store.
Also e-bay Mystery boxes are banned on ebay, but people keep listing them anyway. Probably not the best example to post.
You can simply buy happy meal toys, so they are en gratis with a happy meal, much like Crowns with a sub.
For everything else you can at least sell the items you get, or trade them or something. Or just buy the ones you want from someone else at whatever the market value is. You can't do this with Crown Crates.
0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I mean, they hired ex-SWTOR monetization expert Heather Powers. They clearly want ESO to go into that direction (although they ran SWTOR into the ground).
I bet that's how they got the idea behind the Rng Motif single page now lol, pretty soon they'll release exclusive diamond skills that have a 3rd morph for your base skills that you can only get from opening crates and you can't get with gems like the mountsEdited by Cpt_Teemo on April 20, 2018 12:45PM1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »Istoppucks wrote: »Pretty eye opening statistics that makes me never want to support this game ever again. I'll just leave this here and before all the you don't have to buy them comments. There is no defending this. I’m pretty sure they only give free crates out to trigger people to buy more once they’ve opened them. Didn’t get something you wanted? Maybe you’re more likely to get it next time. Got something good? Well why not just buy a few more in case you get something else you might like.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8dasjl/crown_crate_statistical_analysis_how_much_do/
Not eye opening at all.
Gambling is an addiction that will, in time, take everything from you. If you are an adult, you should know this. If you are a kid you should not be participating (hence all the legal hullabaloo going on right now.)
Eso is rated "M" if a kid is playing and spending his parents money Thats an issue for the parents not ZOS.
I like how people completely and utterly ignore that there is a world outside of the US. The rating for ESo in a lot of countries is 16. So there is that.
Eh...Puritanism never quite went away in the States. I LOVED it when I first moved to the EU, the differences were marked and welcome.
Yeah, I lived in WA state for 6 years, and after coming back to my birthcountry, i would never go back.
Back on topic tho, lol. I find it funny when people use the M rating as an argument. Gambling isnt allowed at 17 last time i checked, lol.Edited by Jade1986 on April 20, 2018 12:45PM0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »Istoppucks wrote: »Pretty eye opening statistics that makes me never want to support this game ever again. I'll just leave this here and before all the you don't have to buy them comments. There is no defending this. I’m pretty sure they only give free crates out to trigger people to buy more once they’ve opened them. Didn’t get something you wanted? Maybe you’re more likely to get it next time. Got something good? Well why not just buy a few more in case you get something else you might like.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8dasjl/crown_crate_statistical_analysis_how_much_do/
Not eye opening at all.
Gambling is an addiction that will, in time, take everything from you. If you are an adult, you should know this. If you are a kid you should not be participating (hence all the legal hullabaloo going on right now.)
Eso is rated "M" if a kid is playing and spending his parents money Thats an issue for the parents not ZOS.
I like how people completely and utterly ignore that there is a world outside of the US. The rating for ESo in a lot of countries is 16. So there is that.
Eh...Puritanism never quite went away in the States. I LOVED it when I first moved to the EU, the differences were marked and welcome.
Yeah, I lived in WA state for 6 years, and after coming back to my birthcountry, i would never go back.
Back on topic tho, lol. I find it funny when people use the M rating as an argument. Gambling isnt allowed at 17 last time i checked, lol.
Not even to mention that SWBF2, the game that really brought this issue to the forefront, is rated "T". Not like it matters, I am sure their are phone games rated "E" with RNG lootboxes out there, since ESRB is essentially meaningless.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The rating is of no consequence. Either you’re under age, then it’s a parenting issue. Or you’re not, then you can and should spend your money as you like.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »Istoppucks wrote: »Pretty eye opening statistics that makes me never want to support this game ever again. I'll just leave this here and before all the you don't have to buy them comments. There is no defending this. I’m pretty sure they only give free crates out to trigger people to buy more once they’ve opened them. Didn’t get something you wanted? Maybe you’re more likely to get it next time. Got something good? Well why not just buy a few more in case you get something else you might like.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8dasjl/crown_crate_statistical_analysis_how_much_do/
Not eye opening at all.
Gambling is an addiction that will, in time, take everything from you. If you are an adult, you should know this. If you are a kid you should not be participating (hence all the legal hullabaloo going on right now.)
Eso is rated "M" if a kid is playing and spending his parents money Thats an issue for the parents not ZOS.
I like how people completely and utterly ignore that there is a world outside of the US. The rating for ESo in a lot of countries is 16. So there is that.
Eh...Puritanism never quite went away in the States. I LOVED it when I first moved to the EU, the differences were marked and welcome.
Yeah, I lived in WA state for 6 years, and after coming back to my birthcountry, i would never go back.
Back on topic tho, lol. I find it funny when people use the M rating as an argument. Gambling isnt allowed at 17 last time i checked, lol.
I've no idea on gambling ages since...I don't gamble. To me the difference here is when you go into a casino (or wherever) and start gaming, you can walk away with absolutely nothing whereas with the crates you'll always get something albeit not necessarily something über. Maybe I'm just too easily pleased.
That said I've reached a point where I almost wish they'd do away with the crates so we can find something else to be offended by.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0 -
maroite✭✭✭Istoppucks wrote: »Istoppucks wrote: »Pretty eye opening statistics that makes me never want to support this game ever again. I'll just leave this here and before all the you don't have to buy them comments. There is no defending this. I’m pretty sure they only give free crates out to trigger people to buy more once they’ve opened them. Didn’t get something you wanted? Maybe you’re more likely to get it next time. Got something good? Well why not just buy a few more in case you get something else you might like.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/8dasjl/crown_crate_statistical_analysis_how_much_do/
Not eye opening at all.
Gambling is an addiction that will, in time, take everything from you. If you are an adult, you should know this. If you are a kid you should not be participating (hence all the legal hullabaloo going on right now.)
Eso is rated "M" if a kid is playing and spending his parents money Thats an issue for the parents not ZOS.
Can you show me the part of the M rating that mentions gambling? I'll wait.
First go back and read the conversation not just knit pick one comment. He was crying about kids playing the game. The game is mature rated and its not ZOS fault if parents allow their kids to play a mature rated game.
Second according to the definition of "gamble" loot crates in eso are not gambling.
gam·ble
ˈɡambəl/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: gambling
1. play games of chance for MONEY; bet.
Based on the legal definition of gambling multiple governments have come out and Stated loot boxes are not gambling .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2017/12/16/16785474/loot-boxes-gambling-law-government-star-wars-battlefront-2
https://www.pcgamer.com/uk-gambling-commission-restates-that-loot-boxes-are-not-gambling/Istoppucks wrote: »Stewart1874 wrote: »Stewart1874 wrote: »
Virtually all new content is via Crown Crates, if you want to buy new content invariably you will need to buy crown crates to obtain that content.. sorry I mean have a chance of obtaining that conent. The decision to remove or fail to offer an alternative means to gain new content you're FORCED to gamble.
I'd class a 0.2% chance of getting a reward they use as their centre piece to the marketing campaign each Crown Crate run as ripping us off. (Unless Zo$ want to be transparent about their Crates and offer up the exact drop rates?)
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
Wait what?
I didn't realize dragon bones DLC <BTW really good dungeons> is behind a crown crate.
I must have been really lucky. Everyone I know got it first timeDieAlteHexe wrote: »Stewart1874 wrote: »Thing is, ZOS isn't FORCING us to buy these crates. You can't blame something just for existing more than you can blame those who make the conscious choice to partake. And I at least know I'm not the one who's shoving hundreds into these crates. At MOST I've ever done is buy the 15 pack one time, I don't buy any more even if I don't get anything good. And even then most of these seasons so far didn't have stuff I wanted.
Zenimax is a business. As long as they're not downright ripping us off or committing fraud with our cash, they can do what they want.
Virtually all new content is via Crown Crates, if you want to buy new content invariably you will need to buy crown crates to obtain that content.. sorry I mean have a chance of obtaining that conent. The decision to remove or fail to offer an alternative means to gain new content you're FORCED to gamble.
I'd class a 0.2% chance of getting a reward they use as their centre piece to the marketing campaign each Crown Crate run as ripping us off. (Unless Zo$ want to be transparent about their Crates and offer up the exact drop rates?)
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
What? Just today there was new stuff added that wasn't in Crown Crates. Costumes, dyes, pets etc.
I'm assuming english isn't your first language, First word of my post 'Virtually' means nearly or almost. I.e Nearly or Almost all content is behind the Crown Crates. That is an accurate view.Stewart1874 wrote: »Thing is, ZOS isn't FORCING us to buy these crates. You can't blame something just for existing more than you can blame those who make the conscious choice to partake. And I at least know I'm not the one who's shoving hundreds into these crates. At MOST I've ever done is buy the 15 pack one time, I don't buy any more even if I don't get anything good. And even then most of these seasons so far didn't have stuff I wanted.
Zenimax is a business. As long as they're not downright ripping us off or committing fraud with our cash, they can do what they want.
You realise you're making excuses for a corporate entity right?
One, I wrote no excuses. And two, what is that supposed to mean? You don't like corporations? They exist cause that's the wonderful world of Capitalism our forefathers created. And I'm not about to become a 99%er fanatic aiming to tear down Society so things can be different.
Everything obtainable via Crown Crates besides experience scrolls and the like are purely cosmetic additions. Everything concerning gameplay is still offered for base amounts to purchase to own. I'd be right there with you if I had to gamble to get access to Summerset, but I don't so I don't see an issue.
Those absolutely are excuses man! Don't lie
Regulated Capitalism is great, unregulated capitalism is not. Businesses have a responsibility to more than just their shareholders nowadays. Loot crates are gambling and in their current form unregulated. There is zero transparency or best practise standards on the implementation of them meaning like with Star Wars Battlefront 2 , companies want to see just how far they can push the consumer. I find that morally wrong. No one is saying Zo$ don't have a right to make money but the manner they choose to do it it leaves a very bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.
My intention here is not to embarrass you (although im sure it will) it is to educate those like you.
Here are the FACTS Loot crates in most mmorpgs including eso are NOT gambling. In the real world FACTS are what matter not unhinged, uneducated emotions with a hint if bias, FACTS are what matter.
In most countries the LEGAL DEFINITION OF GAMBLE is:
gam·ble
ˈɡambəl/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: gambling
1. play games of chance for MONEY; bet.
Based on the legal definition of gambling multiple governments have come out and Stated loot boxes are not gambling .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2017/12/16/16785474/loot-boxes-gambling-law-government-star-wars-battlefront-2
https://www.pcgamer.com/uk-gambling-commission-restates-that-loot-boxes-are-not-gambling/
So please stop with this loot boxes are gambling because they are not.
First that was me commenting, I know exactly what I said. If you want to use the term "crying" then I am leaning towards you simply ad-hominem attacking me, which usually means you are feeling a little bit shaky with your argument. But it could be just that you are acting like a jerk.
My point was that parents can decide that they are OK with the animated violence and mature themes in ESO, which are pretty tame by most accounts. Even the "drug use" in the game isn't exactly hardcore. But the Mature rating does not mention "Players may be prompted to purchase loot crates with real money which have a random chance to win in-game items". So even parents who read the ESRB ratings do not have this information.
Also the second line in the article you posted:
"But the commission also acknowledged that the legal definition of gambling isn't necessarily the point." This is the point you are missing. "It's not reeaally gambling" *wink, wink* is just a lawyers way of arguing that their client never broke the law, and while true and no legal punishment should occur, society can still look at the facts and decide that the legal definition may need altering in order to fit the current situation better.
I will also point out that I have no problem from an ethical standpoint with loot crates existing in the game, my problem (you know, what I was crying about) is that the ESRB is a toothless, voluntary system that clearly does not give out all the information to make an informed decision, and that kids are in fact participating in activities, that while perhaps not meeting the legal definition of gambling, only a person with their eyes wide shut could argue are not very similar to gambling in practice.
Wording 101: "Loot crates are avaliable for purchase in game for real money. You're guaranteed 4 random items." There is no "random chance to win in-game items" involved with a crown crate. You purchase X crates. You're guaranteed AT LEAST 4 items per crate, which are randomly chosen from a predetermined and defined pool.
There is no gambling involved because you gain items for your money. You may not get what you WANT, but that doesn't make it gambling. It makes it random. You do not risk losing your money and receiving nothing.Edited by maroite on April 20, 2018 1:08PM1
