Is Summerset main Isle too small?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I'm talking about over 2 years ago right when it went B2P, and that was the currently sold version. Context.

ESO history :

04/2014 : PC launch
07/2014 : Lower Craglorn
10/2014 : Upper Craglorn
02/2015 : B2P
06/2015 : console launch
09/2015 : Imperial City
12/2015 : Orsinium
02/2016 : Thieves Guild
06/2016 : Dark Brotherhood
08/2016 : Shadows of the Hists
10/2016 : One Tamriel
01/2017 : Homestead
04/2017 : Morrowind
07/2017 : Horns of the Reach
10/2017 : Clockwork City
01/2018 : Dragonbones
05/2018 : Summerset

Get your calendar together. The B2P move was 3 years ago. Context...

Make2k15

mb10 wrote: »

I always felt that Skyrim was absolutely huge in tes5.

but the zones in ESO are so much smaller even when you put them together it's weird

Vvardenfelll was a good example

Lol even Solthsthiem in Skyrim felt bigger than every zone

Yeah, it felt cus the one horse you could get was slower than than the untrained horse in ESO. The dungeons in Skyrim were huge though. Skyrim had more thick forest and vertical landscape, but Summerset seems much better in that regard than the other ESO zones which is definitely step in to the right direction.

Dithieon

Being mainly an explorer in this game,there are some stunning vistas and my hats off to the art department. So far I have only completed a few quests,as I keep stopping to explore and I end up lost lol. But yeah, it is a bit small and I am not sure it is worth the money they want for it. I remember the map with the red areas in a thread not too long ago,and Gina said that it was not quite correct, but dang it looks pretty spot-on to me. I am still on the fence as far as buying the chapter and this is a first impression only.I think after a weekend of exploration and discovery,I will have a better idea. Also thank you to ZOS for giving me an invite,I was pleasantly surprised to get one.

Moloch1514

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I'm talking about over 2 years ago right when it went B2P, and that was the currently sold version. Context.

ESO history :

04/2014 : PC launch
07/2014 : Lower Craglorn
10/2014 : Upper Craglorn
02/2015 : B2P
06/2015 : console launch
09/2015 : Imperial City
12/2015 : Orsinium
02/2016 : Thieves Guild
06/2016 : Dark Brotherhood
08/2016 : Shadows of the Hists
10/2016 : One Tamriel
01/2017 : Homestead
04/2017 : Morrowind
07/2017 : Horns of the Reach
10/2017 : Clockwork City
01/2018 : Dragonbones
05/2018 : Summerset

Get your calendar together. The B2P move was 3 years ago. Context...

Technically, 3 years qualifies as "over 2 years ago" as stated in the quote. For context ya know.

As far as the size goes, it is a valid concern/complaint given the price and lack of "Chapter" worthy content when compared to Morrowind or even Orsinium.

Erraln

FakeFox wrote: »

This threat made me curious about the map scaling, so I played around in Photoshop a bit and here is what I came up with.
Fist I wanted to figure out what the scale difference between the local maps of Summerset and Auridon is. To do so I took two standard Dominion ships and put them side by side. They are the two red objects in the middle, left is Summerset, right is Auridon. Turns out Summerset is ~150% the scale of Auridon.

So the next step was to scale up Summerset and put both next to each other on the world map for a sense of scale and actual comparison. As you can see it fits pretty much perfectly. So at least the map size is actually correct.

In my opinion the very large scaled map makes Summerset look very small compared to other Zones, even though it actually is the right size. This is not to comment on if this size is enough for a chapter though.

You're fooling yourself. Look at the sizes of the character position indicator compared to standard map features like the road widths, and then compare it to the map sizes. And then compare it to this concept map:



I mean, to me, the delivered version of Summerset appears *tiny* in comparison to the delivered version of Auridon. Auridon's supposed to be the offshoot guarding the main continent, not an equal or greater landmass.

FakeFox

Erraln wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

This threat made me curious about the map scaling, so I played around in Photoshop a bit and here is what I came up with.
Fist I wanted to figure out what the scale difference between the local maps of Summerset and Auridon is. To do so I took two standard Dominion ships and put them side by side. They are the two red objects in the middle, left is Summerset, right is Auridon. Turns out Summerset is ~150% the scale of Auridon.

So the next step was to scale up Summerset and put both next to each other on the world map for a sense of scale and actual comparison. As you can see it fits pretty much perfectly. So at least the map size is actually correct.

In my opinion the very large scaled map makes Summerset look very small compared to other Zones, even though it actually is the right size. This is not to comment on if this size is enough for a chapter though.

You're fooling yourself. Look at the sizes of the character position indicator compared to standard map features like the road widths, and then compare it to the map sizes. And then compare it to this concept map:



I mean, to me, the delivered version of Summerset appears *tiny* in comparison to the delivered version of Auridon. Auridon's supposed to be the offshoot guarding the main continent, not an equal or greater landmass.

I agree, this was not my point though. My only point was that Summersets size is true to it's size on the in game world map and that the local map is simply scaled up 150% for whatever reason. This scaling up is what leads to fixed map features being very large in comparison to the dynamic ones.

KwarcPL

Sadly I must agree. Look how much content there is on Auridon:



And now look at Summerset. It feels empty. And have in mind that big chunk of it are mountains.

Gythral

Does it ever matter how large a content patch is - it is always going to be too small, as players will always burn through it faster than it can be developed and released

Rosveen

Gythral wrote: »

Does it ever matter how large a content patch is - it is always going to be too small, as players will always burn through it faster than it can be developed and released

Maybe if ZOS didn't constantly stress in every single promo how it's their largest zone yet...

They intentionally built up people's expectations, it's on them if we're disappointed with what we got. It might actually be a solid zone filled with quality content, but if it doesn't feel significantly larger than base game zones, people will feel cheated. It's completely understandable.

My private opinion is that chapters should have at least 8 delves and world bosses, and at least one new group dungeon. They're marketing them as expansions, so they should feel like expansions - not an ordinary zone with some new game system on top. I'd be willing to drop one (or even more) of our four yearly DLC if it meant more meaty chapters. Give me something to come back to that isn't a motif grind.

Seraphayel

Gythral wrote: »

Does it ever matter how large a content patch is - it is always going to be too small, as players will always burn through it faster than it can be developed and released

It's not a content patch, it's a expansion "Chapter" you need to pay $30 for.

shadyjane62

I feel it's too small as well and not enough variety of scenery. There were not many nodes of crafting mats but perhaps due to crowd.

AefionBloodclaw

I have 2 physical maps of Tamriel, one is the official ESO one and the other was released with the Elder Scrolls anthology. In these Summerset Isle is far bigger than it is in the game, with Auridon appearing a LOT thinner compared. So as ESO's own map doesn't match the ingame digital map it doesn't feel right to have it so small. The in-game map shows Auridon being huge compared to the physical map, nearly half the size of Summerset.

Wayshuba

FakeFox wrote: »

This threat made me curious about the map scaling, so I played around in Photoshop a bit and here is what I came up with.

...snip...

Man, do I hate what I am about to comment here.

1.) Summerset looks, land mass wise, twice as big as Auridon. On all maps of Tamriel, by rights it is supposed to be three to three-half times the size of Auridon. Thus why many thought it would come in two or three zones.

2.) You can explore almost the entirety of Auridon. That being said, it appears in Summerset you are not getting much more explorable area than Auridon.

3.) Comparing Summerset to Vvardenfell is not the best comparison. Instead it should be compared to Orsinium, especially as an ESO+ member. Is there A LOT MORE content in Summerset than Orsinium? Orsinium is free with ESO+ so there has to be A LOT MORE content for an ESO+ member to justify the $40 tag. A new skill line - those come with TG and DB as well for free. Jewelry Crafting - We got Transmutation with CWC for free.

4.) I am seeing two disturbing trends with these "chapters". In vanilla, and most prior DLC, the zones are usually fairly explorable on almost 100% of the map. Both Vvardenfell and Summerset are "bigger" map areas, but with only 50% of the map used. In effect, you are getting almost the same content as one vanilla zone. Secondly, this is really turning into nothing more than figuring out a way to get ESO+ members to pay for content one quarter a year that they should be getting as part of their membership.

Basically, I feel compelled to buy this if I want to play the content before it becomes free to ESO+ members next year. But I am getting disappointed in these "chapters" for the price point they keep asking. Compared to other paid expansions in other MMOs, at best, these things should be selling for $20.

Enodoc

@Dominoid it would be interesting if you were able to do something similar to this for Summerset
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/347841/eso-morrowind-size-comparison-does-size-matter

Rosveen

Enodoc wrote: »

@Dominoid it would be interesting if you were able to do something similar to this for Summerset
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/347841/eso-morrowind-size-comparison-does-size-matter

Ah, the infamous pixel counting! Yes, I'd be interested in seeing it too.

jmgrant44ub17_ESO

The zone is very small and has very little content. This is the norm for ESO now. I really don't expect anything from ZOS anymore and if you are surprised, you must have just crawled out from under a rock. My online friends still play the game so I still play but, I'm starting to make friends in other games. This is about sapping every dollar they can out of the Elder Scrolls name, that's it.

James-Wayne

I think it's fair to say next year's chapter is Skyrim... as Skyrim has lots of impassable mountains which are perfect for ESO Chapters...

Make2k15

Rosveen wrote: »

My private opinion is that chapters should have at least 8 delves and world bosses, and at least one new group dungeon. They're marketing them as expansions, so they should feel like expansions - not an ordinary zone with some new game system on top. I'd be willing to drop one (or even more) of our four yearly DLC if it meant more meaty chapters. Give me something to come back to that isn't a motif grind.

For me the chapter's zone size would be ok if the mountains would be at least partially explorable and have at least some kind of content like for example skyrim's High Hrothgar in there. GTA V is also good example how you can explore pretty much everything including mountain ranges which can be have some pretty interesting content too.

As for the group content I would like to have Solo or Group Arena like Maelstrom or Dragon Star (or maybe all new 2 man arena) but shorter included to chapters. Someting like 3-5 stages would be nice so that it doesn't take hours to do one run with mediocre group.

starkerealm

red_emu wrote: »

AEAltadoonPadhome wrote: »

I must add, that the overland zones from the base game might feel larger in size, but that they felt far more copy+paste than the DLC/chapter zones.
In order to have such a big map filled for example in valenwood, there are many ayleid ruins that are just more of the same.
For me the new trend looks like quality > quantity while at the launch of ESO it was more like quantity > quality.
I mean just look at Cyrodiil.

Did you have a look around Summerset? All towns are copy paste buildings, assets and colours. Areas outside of towns, as beautiful and hand crafted as they are are also all the same (with the exception of a coral beach that has low-res coral boulders. That's it. It seems more copy pasted than any other zone I have been to.

Did you actually play through the content, or just looked around and got annoyed? There's a lot of stuff that kicks in during quests that is very distinct from what you're dealing with in the overworld map. To say nothing of the second new zone.

Elsonso

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

... quests leading to hidden zones not appearing on the map. And to Artaeum. So it's very relevant to this thread. Judging the size and quality of a "zone" without having visited it all - VIA QUESTING - makes no sense at all. It's complaining for the sake of it.

Areas that are not represented on the zone map are areas that are not part of the zone itself. That is what matters to me when I am evaluating the size of an overland DLC zone. In all of the zones of ESO, I have never once considered the interior spaces of the zone, even if those interior spaces have open sky, if they were not so represented on the zone map.

People talk about going under the mountains, and that is fine and dandy, but if we cannot go over the mountains, the mountains are not part of the usable overland zone. They are not to be considered when evaluating the size of the overland zone.

The red, green, and yellow areas of the map seem to accurately, and honestly, represent the usable area of the Summerset overland zone.

Worse than all of that, when on PTS, Summerset feels smaller than Vvardenfell.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I'm talking about over 2 years ago right when it went B2P, and that was the currently sold version. Context.

ESO history :

04/2014 : PC launch
07/2014 : Lower Craglorn
10/2014 : Upper Craglorn
02/2015 : B2P
06/2015 : console launch
09/2015 : Imperial City
12/2015 : Orsinium
02/2016 : Thieves Guild
06/2016 : Dark Brotherhood
08/2016 : Shadows of the Hists
10/2016 : One Tamriel
01/2017 : Homestead
04/2017 : Morrowind
07/2017 : Horns of the Reach
10/2017 : Clockwork City
01/2018 : Dragonbones
05/2018 : Summerset

Get your calendar together. The B2P move was 3 years ago. Context...

Minor correction. B2P was launched with Tamriel Unlimited in March 2015, not February.

starkerealm

lordrichter wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

... quests leading to hidden zones not appearing on the map. And to Artaeum. So it's very relevant to this thread. Judging the size and quality of a "zone" without having visited it all - VIA QUESTING - makes no sense at all. It's complaining for the sake of it.

Areas that are not represented on the zone map are areas that are not part of the zone itself. That is what matters to me when I am evaluating the size of an overland DLC zone. In all of the zones of ESO, I have never once considered the interior spaces of the zone, even if those interior spaces have open sky, if they were not so represented on the zone map.

People talk about going under the mountains, and that is fine and dandy, but if we cannot go over the mountains, the mountains are not part of the usable overland zone. They are not to be considered when evaluating the size of the overland zone.

The red, green, and yellow areas of the map seem to accurately, and honestly, represent the usable area of the Summerset overland zone.

Worse than all of that, when on PTS, Summerset feels smaller than Vvardenfell.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I'm talking about over 2 years ago right when it went B2P, and that was the currently sold version. Context.

ESO history :

04/2014 : PC launch
07/2014 : Lower Craglorn
10/2014 : Upper Craglorn
02/2015 : B2P
06/2015 : console launch
09/2015 : Imperial City
12/2015 : Orsinium
02/2016 : Thieves Guild
06/2016 : Dark Brotherhood
08/2016 : Shadows of the Hists
10/2016 : One Tamriel
01/2017 : Homestead
04/2017 : Morrowind
07/2017 : Horns of the Reach
10/2017 : Clockwork City
01/2018 : Dragonbones
05/2018 : Summerset

Get your calendar together. The B2P move was 3 years ago. Context...

Minor correction. B2P was launched with Tamriel Unlimited in March 2015, not February.

I'm not 100% certain, but I think most of those are off by a month or two, one way or another.

Elsonso

starkerealm wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I'm talking about over 2 years ago right when it went B2P, and that was the currently sold version. Context.

ESO history :

04/2014 : PC launch
07/2014 : Lower Craglorn
10/2014 : Upper Craglorn
02/2015 : B2P
06/2015 : console launch
09/2015 : Imperial City
12/2015 : Orsinium
02/2016 : Thieves Guild
06/2016 : Dark Brotherhood
08/2016 : Shadows of the Hists
10/2016 : One Tamriel
01/2017 : Homestead
04/2017 : Morrowind
07/2017 : Horns of the Reach
10/2017 : Clockwork City
01/2018 : Dragonbones
05/2018 : Summerset

Get your calendar together. The B2P move was 3 years ago. Context...

Minor correction. B2P was launched with Tamriel Unlimited in March 2015, not February.

I'm not 100% certain, but I think most of those are off by a month or two, one way or another.

Good point. Now that I look at it more closely, and compare with other sources, there are several dates that are wrong.

Pinja

KwarcPL wrote: »

Sadly I must agree. Look how much content there is on Auridon:



And now look at Summerset. It feels empty. And have in mind that big chunk of it are mountains.

It seems to be there forgetting to add omni direction paths and quest locations. Making Summerset half as thick as original zones. Like looking at both maps there's only one path location were you can "free roam" between content in summer set.
Part due to there being so many content less dividers.
In Glenumbra you can yo yo to many more locations. With topography dividers leading you around content with content built on top of them. Sometimes distracting and leading you away from content you didn't see.
I don't see this as robbing older players(except RP) who deal with the more time consuming grinds of the game. But new players who lack a rich experience of open world exploration.

Like can you get lost in summer set; No, follow the yellow brick road.

Aeschere3

It seems like it might have to be delayed a while in order for them to make the map an appropriate size. It's definitely too small for the money and too small when you look at the world map.

Elsonso

Aeschere3 wrote: »

It seems like it might have to be delayed a while in order for them to make the map an appropriate size. It's definitely too small for the money and too small when you look at the world map.

That ain't gonna happen. They are not going to increase the map size. They are not going to add quests and things to do. They are not going to greatly expand upon the crafting resource nodes. This chapter is pretty much done. All we are waiting for are a few stray things to finish up and for The Date to come.

Aeschere3

lordrichter wrote: »

Aeschere3 wrote: »

It seems like it might have to be delayed a while in order for them to make the map an appropriate size. It's definitely too small for the money and too small when you look at the world map.

That ain't gonna happen. They are not going to increase the map size. They are not going to add quests and things to do. They are not going to greatly expand upon the crafting resource nodes. This chapter is pretty much done. All we are waiting for are a few stray things to finish up and for The Date to come.

Yeah... It most likely won't be delayed. But right now I can't recommend it based on the map size. Maybe if they slashed the price, but that most likely won't happen.

The best thing we can hope for (maybe) is that they'll add updates to Summerset Isle down the road, but that probably won't happen.

Starlight_Knight

Yes i agree its quite underwhelming, lots of nothing. think it should be cheaper really for amount of none content there is.

Seraphayel

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

Yes i agree its quite underwhelming, lots of nothing. think it should be cheaper really for amount of none content there is.

I thought it's cheaper because it doesn't offer any big features like the Warden class but actually it doesn't even offer a zone comparable to Vvardenfell...

Aeschere3

Seraphayel wrote: »

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

Yes i agree its quite underwhelming, lots of nothing. think it should be cheaper really for amount of none content there is.

I thought it's cheaper because it doesn't offer any big features like the Warden class but actually it doesn't even offer a zone comparable to Vvardenfell...

The cartographer in me is really irritated by the size of this expansion.

One of my friends suggested that the version on the PTS is a smaller Beta build, but that just isn't true.

(Unrelated note: love your username Seraphayel)

Seraphayel

Aeschere3 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

Yes i agree its quite underwhelming, lots of nothing. think it should be cheaper really for amount of none content there is.

I thought it's cheaper because it doesn't offer any big features like the Warden class but actually it doesn't even offer a zone comparable to Vvardenfell...

The cartographer in me is really irritated by the size of this expansion.

One of my friends suggested that the version on the PTS is a smaller Beta build, but that just isn't true.

(Unrelated note: love your username Seraphayel)

You just earned an awesome. Thanks!