Is Summerset main Isle too small?

Mystrius_Archaion

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Chaos2088 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Looking at the map and kinda comparing it to one of the zones in base game, seems roughly the same size.

"Looking at the map..."

You haven't played, haven't explored, just looked at the map, and already speaking negatively ???

red_emu wrote: »

2 huge mountains and a couple of roads. I've traversed Summerset in every direction hoping that my worries about it being small before the PTS dropped were unfounded. Well......it is smaller and with less content that I feared.

I bet you haven't even attempted to play the quests and to discover the "hidden" zones.

This thread was about the size of the zone, not quests...

... quests leading to hidden zones not appearing on the map. And to Artaeum. So it's very relevant to this thread. Judging the size and quality of a "zone" without having visited it all - VIA QUESTING - makes no sense at all. It's complaining for the sake of it.

But that's completely outside the discussion as those "hidden zones" are outside the map of Summerset proper.

Open your map. Go to the world part of it that shows all zones on the same screen. See Vvardenfell in the upper right? See Summerset in the lower left?
Take a screenshot. Print it out. Cut out Summerset and slide it over Vvardenfell. How does their size compare?

Now it gets difficult. Go in game and start a timer and mount up and run across the entire zone of Vvardenfell on the west coast, from Seyda Neen to Gnisis and stop the timer. That's the long way.
Now for ease of comparison, start a timer while in Summerset moving the same exact speed from alinor in the SW to the very NE corner of the zone, or do it from the SE corner to the NW corner.
Compare your times.
I would bet money that the Summerset time will be much shorter even though you're cutting across the diagonal of the zone which should make it longer in a relatively square zone, but we needed a relatively straight line to test.

FYI, somebody will eventually do this if they haven't already and they will confirm Summerset is smaller. It happens in every game.



The point? Summerset is definitely smaller than the world map leads us to believe it is. So either the world map has been wrong forever or the zone of Summerset is wrong. Neither is good.

VaranisArano

Chaos2088 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Looking at the map and kinda comparing it to one of the zones in base game, seems roughly the same size.

"Looking at the map..."

You haven't played, haven't explored, just looked at the map, and already speaking negatively ???

red_emu wrote: »

2 huge mountains and a couple of roads. I've traversed Summerset in every direction hoping that my worries about it being small before the PTS dropped were unfounded. Well......it is smaller and with less content that I feared.

I bet you haven't even attempted to play the quests and to discover the "hidden" zones.

This thread was about the size of the zone, not quests...

There's a couple quests that lead to extra small zone areas. I wound up on a quest that took my to a "delve" that was another little island entirely.

Mystrius_Archaion

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Looking at the map and kinda comparing it to one of the zones in base game, seems roughly the same size.

"Looking at the map..."

You haven't played, haven't explored, just looked at the map, and already speaking negatively ???

The map is an advertisement they put out there.
What is it people say about unrealistic advertisements like those "look younger in 5 minutes" infomercials? False advertising?

It's not our expectations that are unrealistic, because this is a virtual world where nearly anything is possible, especially something as simple as making the polygons of landscape bigger. It's the advertisements they set in front of us to set our expectations that were unrealistic.

We're just doing what they wanted us to, get hyped. We got hyped by the info they gave us only to find the info they gave us was wrong.

You cannot say it's wrong unless you've actually seen and tried entirely.

So, the world map on live servers and on PTS is absolutely correct?
Summerset and Vvardenfell are absolutely similar sized as they are on that world map?
They couldn't possibly have actually given us a smaller zone than the map depicts because it is impossible to build something from scratch that is different than something that was never built in the first place?

Come on! You can't expect me to look at an apple and an orange and believe they are both oranges.

Seraphayel

Faulgor wrote: »

Depends what you mean with "too small". It is the size that it is. I'm more concerned that the areas we do get are as high quality as possible.

Of course I wish we could get all of the island accessible, but apparently that's not possible.

From 3 days of exploration so far, I'm pretty confident that these are the inaccessible areas (red), and areas placed in delves, public dungeons and trials or part of a quest (orange).



Or, if you prefer it the other way around, these are the areas we can freely explore (green).

That's like 50% inaccessible and blocked off.

asuitandtyb14_ESO

I think I'm out. I'm fine with CE because there's nice swag in there, but I expected to come back to an expansion with real content. I've got 5 freaking zones of Mordor I still need to work through in LOTRO, and then there's Dale and Mirkwood after that. I'm just blown away that ZoS can't put together a decent sized landmass in a year, for nearly the price of a new game.

Mystrius_Archaion

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

It is very small. Walked all over the zone and was like, "that's it?"

Quite underwhelming, to be honest.

On a positive note, I don't feel as much of a need to mount up and full sprint to get places.
I was already thinking of actually walking to make sure I didn't miss a detail.

I wish there were more details over a larger area than we get, but we can all stop complaining about travel time at least.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

But that's completely outside the discussion as those "hidden zones" are outside the map of Summerset proper.

Open your map. .../...

The point? Summerset is definitely smaller than the world map leads us to believe it is. So either the world map has been wrong forever or the zone of Summerset is wrong. Neither is good.

The actual size of the map doesn't matter if there are quality playable areas above, beneath and nearby included.
And please don't be such an hypocrit : people in this thread talk about the size of playable content in the CHAPTER. And complain. Without having even played it. That's bashing for the sake of it.

profundidob16_ESO

Vanya wrote: »

I'm personally OK with it. It feels same size to me as Morrowind (riding around it on my horse) BUT it's alot of empty land right now. It's not dense enough in it's current state. Needs alot more content and geographiccally unique elements. If ride from 1 size of morrowind as diagonally as possible to the other side of the island, I have the feeling I have travelled alot further than doing the same in summerset.

In summerset I have more the feeling that I was travelling on an empty plane for now. I guess they are still adding stuff and it's not finished

grizzledcroc

They need to shrink how big the roads look on the map, compare it with everyone other map and there fat as heck.

Talek

It's a joke, seriously the only 2 dlcs that were justified by it's content were Imperial City and Orisinium (it wasn't super great value for the price but hey it was first content after a year of paying to betatest game for consoles), after that the rest is soo overpriced if you compared it to other mmos it's crazy. TG,DB and CWC are mini-zones, 1/3-1/4 size of normal one that are sold for 15-20$, i'm not event comment selling 2 dungeons for the same price and call it quarterly content update. Both Morrowind and Summerset are 30-40$ expansions that sells SINGLE full size zone, for comparision the base game had 15 at launch (+ multiple small starters and Coldharbour) for the price of 50$. How the *** they deliver 15-20x less content for 2/3 of the price? WoW, FFXIV of GW2 expansion are atleast 5x bigger and still cost 40$. Expansion in ESO should have 3 full size zones, trial, and 4 new dungeons + atleast 1 new big gameplay system (i would argue jewelcrafting is new, it's just missing piece of crafting) to justify 40$ price. I hoped that atleast we gonna get 2 zones (Summerset and Artaeum) that overall gonna be bigger than Morrowind with being 10$ cheaper means slight improvement. But no, they are selling it 10$ cheaper because there is even less content than in Morrowind which is really and achievement, because if someone would tell me before PTS that you can do even smaller content update than and sell it as an expansion to AAA MMO i wouldn't believe. So kudos to ZOS, they've outdone themselves.

I bought Morrowind for 10$ around christmas and to be fair i would be mad if i pay more, i did the zone in 2 days, battleground are joke without any matchmaking and i'm no altoholic so zero value from warden. I probably gonna do the same with Summerset.

Mystrius_Archaion

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

But that's completely outside the discussion as those "hidden zones" are outside the map of Summerset proper.

Open your map. .../...

The point? Summerset is definitely smaller than the world map leads us to believe it is. So either the world map has been wrong forever or the zone of Summerset is wrong. Neither is good.

The actual size of the map doesn't matter if there are quality playable areas above, beneath and nearby included.
And please don't be such an hypocrit : people in this thread talk about the size of playable content in the CHAPTER. And complain. Without having even played it. That's bashing for the sake of it.

No, you're being an apologist. You're defending it without even looking at the evidence we all have access to.
If anything, you just got suckered into a purchase you now regret after having tested it and feel the need to justify it to yourself by trying to argue against all the flaws you actually do see. Like a child plugging their ears and saying "lalalala I'm not listening lalalalala".

AND FYI, I'm in the PTS on Summerset island just like you supposedly are. IT'S SMALLER THAN VVARDENFELL EVEN THOUGH THE MAP SHOWS THAT THEY SHOULD BE RELATIVELY EQUAL SIZE!

I'm done with this. We all know what you refuse to admit. You may know it too, likely even, but you defintiely are doing the whole "cartoon ostrich" head in the sand thing.

Enodoc

Faulgor wrote: »

Depends what you mean with "too small". It is the size that it is. I'm more concerned that the areas we do get are as high quality as possible.

Of course I wish we could get all of the island accessible, but apparently that's not possible.

From 3 days of exploration so far, I'm pretty confident that these are the inaccessible areas (red), and areas placed in delves, public dungeons and trials or part of a quest (orange).



Or, if you prefer it the other way around, these are the areas we can freely explore (green).

Having explored everywhere except the northeast section, I agree with the areas you shaded.


ZOS did say however that "Summerset is larger than Vvardenfell". I haven't yet done the timed running test from one end to the other, but right now, it certainly doesn't feel larger than Vvardenfell.

grizzledcroc wrote: »

They need to shrink how big the roads look on the map, compare it with everyone other map and there fat as heck.

That would also help. Relatively speaking, the roads are huge, and in they were Vvardenfell-width it may help the scale feel better.

Dracane

I think it was the area with the fewest locations right after hew's bane and gold coast. It's the 3rd smallest zone so far, and that's the hard true sadly.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

But that's completely outside the discussion as those "hidden zones" are outside the map of Summerset proper.

Open your map. .../...

The point? Summerset is definitely smaller than the world map leads us to believe it is. So either the world map has been wrong forever or the zone of Summerset is wrong. Neither is good.

The actual size of the map doesn't matter if there are quality playable areas above, beneath and nearby included.
And please don't be such an hypocrit : people in this thread talk about the size of playable content in the CHAPTER. And complain. Without having even played it. That's bashing for the sake of it.

No, you're being an apologist. You're defending it without even looking at the evidence we all have access to.
If anything, you just got suckered into a purchase you now regret after having tested it and feel the need to justify it to yourself by trying to argue against all the flaws you actually do see. Like a child plugging their ears and saying "lalalala I'm not listening lalalalala".

AND FYI, I'm in the PTS on Summerset island just like you supposedly are. IT'S SMALLER THAN VVARDENFELL EVEN THOUGH THE MAP SHOWS THAT THEY SHOULD BE RELATIVELY EQUAL SIZE!

I'm done with this. We all know what you refuse to admit. You may know it too, likely even, but you defintiely are doing the whole "cartoon ostrich" head in the sand thing.

For your information, I haven't purchased Summerset at all. Not yet. I don't see any sense in paying anything two months in advance.
I will buy it, though.

It's you who totally refuses to understand that the map size of a zone has nothing to do with its playable size or density. Rich even mentioned it in the presentation clip, he said "it's a bit smaller horizontally but there's more content vertically" or something like that.

You're just here for the sake of bashing. You remind me of the people who cried that Hew's Bane was ridiculously small, without having explored any of the amazing levels, details, depth and hidden passages in Abah's Landing.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

Asardes

They did listen to player feedback: instead of a big volcano and a barren island they now added 3 smaller mountains as map fillers. The Tamrielic orogenesis is in full swing

Feanor

People just are not happy either way. If it were the size of Cyrodiil people would complain about riding times.

Seraphayel

Feanor wrote: »

People just are not happy either way. If it were the size of Cyrodiil people would complain about riding times.

If there is stuff to do nobody would complain about a zone as big as Cyrodiil. And another important point is that there would be wayshrines so no riding simulator without environment or incentives like Cyrodiil.

Feanor

Seraphayel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

People just are not happy either way. If it were the size of Cyrodiil people would complain about riding times.

If there is stuff to do nobody would complain about a zone as big as Cyrodiil. And another important point is that there would be wayshrines so no riding simulator without environment or incentives like Cyrodiil.

And you think you’d get that for € 29,99?

Mystrius_Archaion

Feanor wrote: »

People just are not happy either way. If it were the size of Cyrodiil people would complain about riding times.

I like the zone generally. I pre-ordered right away. I also like the bonus with a pre-order.

But I had to be honest. I expected actual zone size to match the world map which places the island of Summerset, from coast to coast, as wide and as tall as Vvardenfell, perhaps more slightly.
I rode across the zone far too quickly for it to be that big.

Now, I don't really care what size it actually is. I'm just disappointed we are likely missing out on lore and places to explore due to the size. The same thing happened with Vvardenfell though a bit of the opposite. They had so much lore and places they already could use from TES3 Morrowind, but they included just a fraction of it as actually playable. All those ancestral tombs were just "rubbings" to collect.
Vvardenfell was big enough for so much more. Summerset doesn't have more we know is missing so they shrunk it.

mb10

I always felt that Skyrim was absolutely huge in tes5.

but the zones in ESO are so much smaller even when you put them together it's weird

Vvardenfelll was a good example

Lol even Solthsthiem in Skyrim felt bigger than every zone

Seraphayel

Feanor wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

People just are not happy either way. If it were the size of Cyrodiil people would complain about riding times.

If there is stuff to do nobody would complain about a zone as big as Cyrodiil. And another important point is that there would be wayshrines so no riding simulator without environment or incentives like Cyrodiil.

And you think you’d get that for € 29,99?

Well I get 4-5 zones per expansion in every other AAA MMORPG for $30-40 so... yes?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Seraphayel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

People just are not happy either way. If it were the size of Cyrodiil people would complain about riding times.

If there is stuff to do nobody would complain about a zone as big as Cyrodiil. And another important point is that there would be wayshrines so no riding simulator without environment or incentives like Cyrodiil.

And you think you’d get that for € 29,99?

Well I get 4-5 zones per expansion in every other AAA MMORPG for $30-40 so... yes?

Do you get "free" expansion DLCs and dungeons every quarter in every other AAA MMORPG ?

Dracane

ESO_Blash wrote: »

It’s obvious that Zenimax is not capable of delivering a landmass bigger than a classic base game zone filled with content every year.

Yet they keep claiming the size of new zones is bigger than anything seen before. First Morrowind, now Summerset. Is this the American way of handling marketing?

“Just tell them it’s BIGGER! Doesn’t matter if half the map is inaccesible and 20 quests are spread over a dozen miles like in Cyrodiil. People don’t notice. We can blind them with our claims.”

Is honesty not being valued at Zenimax?

It is, yes. Bethesda says this about any new fallout or Elder scrolls game. Especially about Fallout 4, where half the map is radiated ocean that you can't do anything with.
They always say, the new stuff is the biggest and best so far. It's rarely true. Vvardenfell was advertised to be as big as Cyrodiil This should give you an idea.

Mystrius_Archaion

Feanor wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

People just are not happy either way. If it were the size of Cyrodiil people would complain about riding times.

If there is stuff to do nobody would complain about a zone as big as Cyrodiil. And another important point is that there would be wayshrines so no riding simulator without environment or incentives like Cyrodiil.

And you think you’d get that for € 29,99?

Get a lot more than we got for $29.99? Yes. I got the game originally on sale for $19.99 with the explorer pack included(any race, any alliance).
I honestly did expect more for the price, but it is more reasonable than what they would have charged having everything separate, which is why I bought it, the bundle discount.

As a side note, it's funny how they don't have many sales on the crown store items. Instead of limited time sales they just make the items full price and take them away after a limited time. Not a very good financial move.

Seraphayel

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

People just are not happy either way. If it were the size of Cyrodiil people would complain about riding times.

If there is stuff to do nobody would complain about a zone as big as Cyrodiil. And another important point is that there would be wayshrines so no riding simulator without environment or incentives like Cyrodiil.

And you think you’d get that for € 29,99?

Well I get 4-5 zones per expansion in every other AAA MMORPG for $30-40 so... yes?

Do you get "free" expansion DLCs and dungeons every quarter in every other AAA MMORPG ?

Yes, they're called content patches and come with the monthly cost of $13, the same as in ESO.

Guess what, ESO "Chapters" are marketed and priced as expansions but in fact they're DLCs. They don't even offer new dungeons. New dungeons are sold separately in a dungeon DLC. In other AAA MMORPGs you get 5-10 new dungeons per expansion "for free" on top of the 4-5 zones. ZOS isn't even capable of offering ONE new dungeon in a Chapter.

Either way ZOS is delivering almost nothing for the Chapter cost. If there would be no physical CE with all the awesome stuff (journal, statue) I wouldn't even bother buying Chapters because they're a gigantic rip off (Summerset even more than Morrowind although I thought that would be almost impossible).

Casdha

I did notice my first blatant invisible wall just inside the public dungeon that's on the bottom center of the map (forget the name).

Once you go in look to your right, just past the Echatere there is a fence just above some rocks with a town behind it. You can easily get on the rocks but only so far and then you can not get to the fence. The town is low res if you get as close as you can and apparently there is not anyway you can get to it on the map, at least that I can see. It also does not appear to be on the map outside of the dungeon.

Feanor

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

People just are not happy either way. If it were the size of Cyrodiil people would complain about riding times.

If there is stuff to do nobody would complain about a zone as big as Cyrodiil. And another important point is that there would be wayshrines so no riding simulator without environment or incentives like Cyrodiil.

And you think you’d get that for € 29,99?

Get a lot more than we got for $29.99? Yes. I got the game originally on sale for $19.99 with the explorer pack included(any race, any alliance).
I honestly did expect more for the price, but it is more reasonable than what they would have charged having everything separate, which is why I bought it, the bundle discount.

As a side note, it's funny how they don't have many sales on the crown store items. Instead of limited time sales they just make the items full price and take them away after a limited time. Not a very good financial move.

You pick up a 4 year old game on sale for 20 bucks and seriously expected even more for the price? This goes to show how far the often absurd customer demand of the highest quality for the cheapest price (and best for free) have come (it gets even better if the same people then complain about wages declining). I’m not defending the publisher for its pricing, but some of the expectations people have are really off.

FakeFox

This threat made me curious about the map scaling, so I played around in Photoshop a bit and here is what I came up with.
Fist I wanted to figure out what the scale difference between the local maps of Summerset and Auridon is. To do so I took two standard Dominion ships and put them side by side. They are the two red objects in the middle, left is Summerset, right is Auridon. Turns out Summerset is ~150% the scale of Auridon.

So the next step was to scale up Summerset and put both next to each other on the world map for a sense of scale and actual comparison. As you can see it fits pretty much perfectly. So at least the map size is actually correct.

In my opinion the very large scaled map makes Summerset look very small compared to other Zones, even though it actually is the right size. This is not to comment on if this size is enough for a chapter though.

Mystrius_Archaion

Feanor wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

People just are not happy either way. If it were the size of Cyrodiil people would complain about riding times.

If there is stuff to do nobody would complain about a zone as big as Cyrodiil. And another important point is that there would be wayshrines so no riding simulator without environment or incentives like Cyrodiil.

And you think you’d get that for € 29,99?

Get a lot more than we got for $29.99? Yes. I got the game originally on sale for $19.99 with the explorer pack included(any race, any alliance).
I honestly did expect more for the price, but it is more reasonable than what they would have charged having everything separate, which is why I bought it, the bundle discount.

As a side note, it's funny how they don't have many sales on the crown store items. Instead of limited time sales they just make the items full price and take them away after a limited time. Not a very good financial move.

You pick up a 4 year old game on sale for 20 bucks and seriously expected even more for the price?

I'm talking about over 2 years ago right when it went B2P, and that was the currently sold version. Context.