PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Item Sets & General Itemization

Tasear

Narvuntien wrote: »

The big issue I see with most of the new sets is that they don't give weapon/spell damage, it doesn't matter how much you crit or how much resources you have without a good base of weapon or spell damage you'll hit (or heal) like a wet noodle. Dps is basically all that matters in this game, getting to resistant cap is easy and things tend to 1 shot if you mess up. As such Healers need only do the minimum of healing required while otherwise contributing to DPS in someway.

Tanking
Tanking sets that don't give any group advantage are only used in PVP. There hasn't been a good tanking set since thieves guild and neither of them were even heavy armor. All the heavy armor sets are far far too selfish. There needs to be a change in heavy armor design philosophy. Tanks = support give them support tools.

Healing
Spell power cure is overwhelmingly the best healer set, the buff to Jovad's (applying to slayer) is appreciated but its barely diversifying healer builds. Twilight remedy becoming obsolete with the psyjic skill line is also not helpful. A set that heals is redundant, healers have plenty of heals.. this game is not cooldown limited. Healers are resource limited and mechanics DPS gated. As such a Healer needs to be providing damage, infact providing damage is more important to a healer than anything else its just group damage instead of personal damage. Healer set design is also all wrong... nothing is anywhere as good as SPC + Worms. (group damage + group resources).

DPS
PVP hates procs stop making new ones and now they cannot crit they are also pretty much useless in PVE where crit multiplier (through Force buffs) is where the real damage is. As such proc sets are either broken or unplayable, just don't make them. Honestly just having a set of stats is all anyone really wants.... see Julianos and Hundings rage. The more interesting damage sets are ones with some kind of class or mechanic specific damage buff... see Burning Spellweave. Its a good set... Mechanical actuary is a recently designed set that while kind of a proc set is all about crits and rewards good lining up of damage in a narrow window of power.

I am disappointed in the nerfs to Nightmothers gaze and Sunderflame. I mean its nice that they are now under the elegant minor/major system. In many ways I"d like everything to have it *cough* snares *cough*. But you took two team play sets and made them completely useless in teamplay. (As someone else always has that buff). Also stamina dps continiues to lack magicka dps's penetration.

Healers...I won't agree we need to provide more damage but buff it. Worm isn't as good as guidance set that is offensive and defensive.

angelncelestine

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

The healing set from the trial need to last 10 seconds and be able to be use every 10 seconds. This 5 seconds for 1k heals every 10 seconds is no good at all. Adding ~600 heals per second is not worth a five piece, especially one from a trial. If it was a pool that restored mag or stam, randomly, even a low amount like 300 per second, that would be good.

This^ My healer would love that. The set currently is very underwhelming and not worth using.

Strider__Roshin

Dracane wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Delete Sload's Semblance. Dont even bother to adjust the numbers or something. Just delete it and create something new.

This. It´s true.

This set is an abomination that counteracts every attempt made towards balancing the game in this update.

It´s 7 x 844 obliviondmg dot on your target. The game does not need unavoidable uncounterable dmg. Just no.

Not entirely sure, but aren't these the numbers from the normal Cloudrest sets ? So the HM mode set could be even more than 844 oblivion damage.

It's a crafted set -_-

Strider__Roshin

If we can just make it so proc sets don't damage players that would be great. They are horrible, absolutely horrible for PvP. If you want to make them useful for pve fine go ahead, no one cares. But this free high damage nonsense is atrocious in the realm of PvP.

Want to make PvP healthy?
Make it so proc sets don't damage players.
Make it so snakes blood mitigates the affects of poisons.
Restrict major defile to ultimates only (make sure each class has at least one ultimate with Major defile).

This is coming from a PvPer that wants a fun, healthy, and competitive PvP environment.

eso_nya

I did try out Gryphon’s Ferocity .... until i realised its the buff from beast trap. heh rookie mistake xD

NMG change is bad. Will be buried next to Armormaster and replaced by Spriggans or Hundings + Lover.

Serpace

I don't play as a DPS much but had interesting conversations with guildies who were not happy with the change to Nightmother's Gaze and Sunderflame.

With the increase to light attack damage, magicka damage dealers closed the gap with stam and that is a good thing, but the nerf to NMG and Sunder came out of nowhere and really puts stam builds in a tight spot. Not only does it make Stam DPS less attractive and viable for end game content, it forces every one of them to either run Twice-Fanged Serpent to make up for some of the lost penetration or sacrifice a lot of CP to regain it back. Either option limits their build options and still hurts their dps despite them being in a more difficult stop in terms of positioning.

It might be a good idea to leave NMG and Sunder as they were, or introduce better ways for StamDPS to gain penetration (perhaps from armor skill lines?)

Feanor

It might be a good idea to leave NMG and Sunder as they were, or introduce better ways for StamDPS to gain penetration (perhaps from armor skill lines?)

I think it’s again about choices. Running NMG and Sunderflame has been a no brainer for so long. There are sources of penetration for stam that hardly are used because those two sets exist.

- Maces
- Sharpened
- Lover mundus
- CP

It’s debatable if the game really needed sets with major fracture as 5 pc. But one cannot deny that NMG and SF have had a dominant position for so long that a nerf was due. Just see BSW and Necro. It’s the exact same thing.

shinikaze

pieratsos wrote: »

Delete Sload's Semblance. Dont even bother to adjust the numbers or something. Just delete it and create something new.

No please don't ask for that ask for balance instead make it a 1700 (850 in pvp) bleed/desease damage instead.

I do agree that oblivion damage is op as hell but, but I love the idea of building arround dot, and this set has the perfect 2, 3 and 4 set bounuses

ssewallb14_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

What did you think of the items from the clams, if you found them?

I've done 1.5 runs around the entire shoreline, have yet to find a single clam. Unsure if these are bugged, extremely rare, or there's a mass of people in other instances farming them. I had the Morrowind tester's access bug, if that matters.

Schattenfluegel

Sunderflame has the old setbonus...not the new bonus with major fracture, nmg probably too - havent looked after the second set right now.

Bound Arnaments has the Dmg Bonus from Heavy Attacks, not from Light Attacks in the Skilltext...

MaximusDecimus

Vestment of Olorime needs a huge buff to make it viable. The radius is so small its worthless in any situation that requires movement, which happens to be, well, ALL THE SITUATIONS. Needs at least an 8m Radius to justify any use at all in PvE.

I also consider the gap between perfected and nonperfected a joke. Like why even try to do hardmode except for the skin? The sets are within 10-30 points of each other.

Lord_Eomer

None of set from this chapter seems impressive, Dragon Bones DLC or Morrowind have much better sets comparing these.

I may not even running this new trial for farming sets, huge dissapointment!

So far worst sets from a trial. Summerset hype is getting lower:

1. No better trial set comparing existing trial sets
2. Jewellery crafting upgrade cost is too much higher
3. Not very impressive Psijic Skill line, Warden Class with Morrowind was big value

MaximusDecimus

I also propose a rework of Grace of Gloom

As it stands on PTS
Heavy - Grace of Gloom
2 – 1206 Max Health
3 – 4% Healing Taken
4 – 1206 Max Health
5 – When you take damage from a single target direct attack or ability, you have a 10% chance to become a living shadow, causing your light and heavy attacks to heal you for 3440 and gaining Major Evasion for 5 seconds, increasing your dodge chance by 15%. This effect can occur every 15 seconds.

Proposed
Heavy - Grace of Gloom
2 – 1206 Max Health
3 – 4% Healing Taken
4 – 1206 Max Health
5 – When you take damage from a single target direct attack or ability, you have a 20% chance to become summon of shadow sigil at your feet(8m radius) increasing the spell and weapon damage of allies within by 250 for 10 seconds. 15 second Proc cooldown.

This increases group utility for the set and stays true to the shadow motif you want the set to invoke. This also encourages more precise group coordination.

MaximusDecimus

Aegis of Galanwe could be reworked as follows to increase usefulness. Also removing the perfected vs nonperfected could be differentiated by Minor vs Major Heroism. This rework might make it strong enough for trials tanks to consider dropping torag's or alkosh.

Heavy - Aegis of Galanwe
2 – 1206 Max Health
3 – 4% Healing Taken
4 – 129 Stamina Recovery
5 – After successfully blocking, heal an ally within 15 meters for 3440. This effect can occur every 2 seconds.

Heavy - Aegis of Galanwe
2 – 1206 Max Health
3 – 1096 Max Stamina
4 – 1206 Max Health
5 – After successfully blocking, heal an ally within 15 meters for 3440 and grant them Major Heroism for 8 seconds. This effect can occur every 4 seconds.

Lord_Eomer

MaximusDecimus wrote: »

Aegis of Galanwe could be reworked as follows to increase usefulness. Also removing the perfected vs nonperfected could be differentiated by Minor vs Major Heroism. This rework might make it strong enough for trials tanks to consider dropping torag's or alkosh.

Heavy - Aegis of Galanwe
2 – 1206 Max Health
3 – 4% Healing Taken
4 – 129 Stamina Recovery
5 – After successfully blocking, heal an ally within 15 meters for 3440. This effect can occur every 2 seconds.

Heavy - Aegis of Galanwe
2 – 1206 Max Health
3 – 1096 Max Stamina
4 – 1206 Max Health
5 – After successfully blocking, heal an ally within 15 meters for 3440 and grant them Major Heroism for 8 seconds. This effect can occur every 4 seconds.

Atleast with your suggested changes this set can be used by Tanks / off-tanks.

In current state its another junk set!

Onefrkncrzypope

Feanor wrote: »

It might be a good idea to leave NMG and Sunder as they were, or introduce better ways for StamDPS to gain penetration (perhaps from armor skill lines?)

I think it’s again about choices. Running NMG and Sunderflame has been a no brainer for so long. There are sources of penetration for stam that hardly are used because those two sets exist.

- Maces
- Sharpened
- Lover mundus
- CP

It’s debatable if the game really needed sets with major fracture as 5 pc. But one cannot deny that NMG and SF have had a dominant position for so long that a nerf was due. Just see BSW and Necro. It’s the exact same thing.

What you say is true but those sets made Stam hit hard enough to be wanted. I know it's day two of pts but the loss of 6k penetration will damage the Stam classes pretty hard. I mean at least the groups would have three or four different sets for Stam.... Diversity was great while it lasted. Elder staves online seems to be trying to come back from the dead. Again I know it's day two just rather start early with ZoS. I want diversity please not tfs or cornflower doubling in price

WrathOfInnos

I have to agree with the individuals above who have said that the trial sets are quite boring. They also seem to be weak, and do not even have Minor Slayer.

I like sets that can be great IF certain conditions are met. These really help to create good choices between sets, and help promote group optimization. There have been some excellent examples of these in the past, such as:

Master Architect and War Machine: If you have a low-cost ultimate

Infallible Aether: If Minor Vulnerability uptime is low

Moondancer: If there are plenty of synergies and you would benefit from a little extra sustain

Alkosh: If there are plenty of synergies and group is not reaching pen caps

Netch/War Maiden/Automaton/Sun: If a certain % of your damage comes from a specific damage type

Mechanical Acuity: If your crit chance is lower than about 50%

Burning Spellweave: If you deal a lot of fire damage

Scathing Mage: If you deal a lot of direct damage

The other type of set I find most enjoyable if the group buff set. These would make the most sense as a trial drop, since they benefit trials groups the most. These would include Ebon, Worm, SPC, Hircine, Sunderflame, Night Mothers Gaze (old), Alkosh, War Machine, Master Architect, Torugs Pact (with crusher or weakening), Jorvulds, Twilight Remedy, etc.

Note that some of the most popular sets fall into both categories (conditionally good, and group supporting).

Please try to come up with some similar ideas that will make people want to use the gear from Summerset. A few more proc sets (that still cannot crit, and will cause complaints in PVP while being weak in PVE) are not the answer.

SGT_Wolfe101st

Narvuntien wrote: »

The big issue I see with most of the new sets is that they don't give weapon/spell damage, it doesn't matter how much you crit or how much resources you have without a good base of weapon or spell damage you'll hit (or heal) like a wet noodle. Dps is basically all that matters in this game, getting to resistant cap is easy and things tend to 1 shot if you mess up. As such Healers need only do the minimum of healing required while otherwise contributing to DPS in someway.

Tanking
Tanking sets that don't give any group advantage are only used in PVP. There hasn't been a good tanking set since thieves guild and neither of them were even heavy armor. All the heavy armor sets are far far too selfish. There needs to be a change in heavy armor design philosophy. Tanks = support give them support tools.

Healing
Spell power cure is overwhelmingly the best healer set, the buff to Jovad's (applying to slayer) is appreciated but its barely diversifying healer builds. Twilight remedy becoming obsolete with the psyjic skill line is also not helpful. A set that heals is redundant, healers have plenty of heals.. this game is not cooldown limited. Healers are resource limited and mechanics DPS gated. As such a Healer needs to be providing damage, infact providing damage is more important to a healer than anything else its just group damage instead of personal damage. Healer set design is also all wrong... nothing is anywhere as good as SPC + Worms. (group damage + group resources).

DPS
PVP hates procs stop making new ones and now they cannot crit they are also pretty much useless in PVE where crit multiplier (through Force buffs) is where the real damage is. As such proc sets are either broken or unplayable, just don't make them. Honestly just having a set of stats is all anyone really wants.... see Julianos and Hundings rage. The more interesting damage sets are ones with some kind of class or mechanic specific damage buff... see Burning Spellweave. Its a good set... Mechanical actuary is a recently designed set that while kind of a proc set is all about crits and rewards good lining up of damage in a narrow window of power.

I am disappointed in the nerfs to Nightmothers gaze and Sunderflame. I mean its nice that they are now under the elegant minor/major system. In many ways I"d like everything to have it *cough* snares *cough*. But you took two team play sets and made them completely useless in teamplay. (As someone else always has that buff). Also stamina dps continiues to lack magicka dps's penetration.

Well said, I agree with everything you have stated. You get an awesome!

Gnortranermara

I'm happy with the changes to NMG and Sunderflame. NMG will still be a useful solo set for Maelstrom on classes that don't have Major Fracture. Sunderflame can replace Power of the Light in trials groups. Stam users can use sharpened weapons or the Lover stone to make up for the penetration losses.

That being said, special weapons (Master/Maelstrom/Asylum) MUST be adjusted! 2-handers counting as 2 set pieces is an indirect nerf to these hard-earned weapons. All Master/Maelstrom/Asylum weapons need the 1.5x stat buff returned as a 1 piece bonus.

olsborg

The oblivion dmg set is way broken(Sload’s Semblance), dmg that cant be mitigated or warded is a bad idea and should not exist in the game period.

Lord_Eomer

olsborg wrote: »

The oblivion dmg set is way broken(Sload’s Semblance), dmg that cant be mitigated or warded is a bad idea and should not exist in the game period.

Strider__Roshin

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

The oblivion dmg set is way broken(Sload’s Semblance), dmg that cant be mitigated or warded is a bad idea and should not exist in the game period.

300-400 dmg per sec in pvp is broken? And can not crit.

In fact this set need buff!

This set is broken, and that 5th piece needs to be replaced.

[Edited for baiting]

Dubhliam

The NMG and Sunderflame nerf was totally uncalled for.

I think NMG can be reworked into the Minor Breach and Fracture debuffs, but leave Sunderflame as it is!

ZOS_Mika

We have recently removed a few unnecessary comments from this thread. Please ensure that this discussion remains constructive. Thank you for your understanding.

Dubhliam

Also, new trial sets are garbage.

I propose something in these lines:
Healer: healing an ally grants them Minor Slayer for 5 seconds
Tank: blocking an attack grants allies in your group Minor Aegis for 5 seconds
Stam DD: allies with Minor Aegis restore 100 stamina every second
Mag DD: allies with Minor Slayer restore 100 magicka every second

Play around those trial buffs, make sets more supportive of group play.

You can then add Minor Slayer and Minor Aegis as an additional third bonus of the perfected items.

Avran_Sylt

TBH, the more I think about it, the less I like the Sload set.

It tries to be too general of a set.

Craftable, such that it can be in any type, and not have to sacrifice a Weapon+jewelry combination to fit on off-set builds.
Hybrid stats, such that any setup can try and use it without much loss
Oblivion Damage, such that it can be used in literally any build.

If this set is over-tuned, it's BiS for nearly anything.
If it's under-tuned, there are better options anywhere.

It's essentially homogenization in set form.

IMO, the least you could do is make it deal Magic Damage, and increase the base damage. This covers the Mag DPS part of it.

If you want to make it more hybrid, add a 40% (or 60% if you want to be more unique) snare to the effect as well.

Malamar1229

Derra wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Delete Sload's Semblance. Dont even bother to adjust the numbers or something. Just delete it and create something new.

This. It´s true.

This set is an abomination that counteracts every attempt made towards balancing the game in this update.

It´s 7 x 844 obliviondmg dot on your target. The game does not need unavoidable uncounterable dmg. Just no.

I already have a trashblade that runs shield breaker and infused oblivion enchants, i do it in Hope's of generating enough hate that zos removes SB and oblivion dmg from the game completely. This set just buffed my build. Ridiculous

Jaxaxo

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

The oblivion dmg set is way broken(Sload’s Semblance), dmg that cant be mitigated or warded is a bad idea and should not exist in the game period.

300-400 dmg per sec in pvp is broken? And can not crit.

In fact this set need buff!

Oblivion dmg is not affected by Battle spirit. It's 853 unavoidable, unblockable dmg every second that ignores shields and resistances. Seems pretty strong

Cinbri

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

The oblivion dmg set is way broken(Sload’s Semblance), dmg that cant be mitigated or warded is a bad idea and should not exist in the game period.

300-400 dmg per sec in pvp is broken? And can not crit.

In fact this set need buff!

Oblivion dmg is not affected by Battle spirit. It's 853 unavoidable, unblockable dmg that ignores shields and resistancec. Seems pretty strong

Idk, it purgable at least and single target. While with Torug you can apply 2x more oblivion pressure and now can craft jewelry for torug combining it in new combinations.

Lord_Eomer

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

The oblivion dmg set is way broken(Sload’s Semblance), dmg that cant be mitigated or warded is a bad idea and should not exist in the game period.

300-400 dmg per sec in pvp is broken? And can not crit.

In fact this set need buff!

Oblivion dmg is not affected by Battle spirit. It's 853 unavoidable, unblockable dmg every second that ignores shields and resistances. Seems pretty strong

Battle Spirit Effect:
Increase Health by 5000
Reduce damage taken by 50%
Reduce healing received and damage shield strength by 50%
Increase range of abilities with greater than 28m range by 8m in Cyrodiil

I am aware that Oblivion Damage is not mitigated against any resistance but may be its bug that Oblivion Damage is not reduced by Battle Spirit as its very clearly mention "Reduce damage taken by 50%"

At least It can be purge, I do not care whether ZOS nerf or replace 5th piece bonus as most of Summerset sets seems not interesting comparing existing sets.