The crafters complaining about lack of skill points Summerset thread...

Jayne_Doe

First - I'm not against ZOS adding enough SPs to cover the new crafting skill and Psijic skill lines.

But should they? Would they? We'll soon see.

A couple of points (some made already):

- I do think "play as you want" does not mean that no sacrifices or choices need to be made. It's clear that ZOS never intended for there to be enough SPs to cover ALL skills in the game. Currently, we have (from what I read in earlier posts) 546 total skills with only 394 SPs. While they have added a couple guild and world skill lines, they've added enough points with additional content to cover those.

- That said, this update will bring more new skills to the game than previous DLCs have. TG and DB brought 22 total, but there were enough SPs with those DLCs to cover most of them, plus IC and Orsinium had already added quite a few SPs, not to mention MW. This update will bring around 40 new skills with probably only 11-12 additional SPs. That's a bigger gap. ETA: I missed the 20 from legerdemain, but I think IC/Orsinium/TG/DB/MW still covers most of those.

So, what's the solution? One the one hand, I don't know that a solution is necessary, since it's clear that ZOS never intended for there to be enough SPs to cover all skills in the game. This has been the case from the beginning. On the other hand, there will be quite a few new skills added in this update, with probably only half being covered by the new SPs added. And these are more than just a handful of useful passives for thieving/murdering - those were rather niche skills for niche playstyles. Jewelry crafting will be useful for pretty much everyone and I assume the Psijic line will add useful combat skills for a lot of players.

So, we have quite a few new skills being added that are arguably more useful than any of the previous skills added to the game. But, I don't think the solution is to add 40 new SPs with Summerset. At least, not with the zone itself. I can see, however, adding new ways to get SPs within the base game - like CPs, as mentioned before. Or some other activities or achievements. Even so, I don't know that ZOS necessarily wants to add enough SPs to cover all skill lines, so in the end, some players may still have to make some compromises. Games, as with life, are about choices, even in a game that encourages you to play as you want. Limitations are still there - the most obvious one being class, with race being another. Those two right there already place limits on us. Having to make choices about what skills to use and even what playstyles our builds can handle seem to me to be part and parcel to a role-playing game.

Sordidfairytale

XiDiabolismiX wrote: »

Alright...

Thats being generous with only 2 weapon lines and 1 armor line. I know most people choose to not max everything but if that’s what the OP chooses to do and how they want to play, then no... there is not enough skill points in the game to sustain a main crafter with two more skill lines coming out.

Understanding that you've admitted to this being a bit of a troll, if someone wants to be inefficient there is nothing ZOS can do to satisfy that player.

I have a character that does swap all three roles on the fly with one bar, no back bar. Your argument (and the OP's) is that ZOS should do something to allow me to have more skills on the one bar that I'm using. I want to play the game the way I want to play it; with one bar, I should be able to do so, and while I can, having more skills on that one bar would allow me to enjoy the game better and provide more support to the group. That's not reasonable.

And at some point we have to concede that ZOS is challenging players to choose how many skills they have at any one time either on their bar or known by their character. It's part of their game.

It takes very little time to level up alchemy, provisioning, and enchanting so there are three skill lines that the OP could move to an alt to free up some skill points for other areas.

Aurielle

XiDiabolismiX wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

XiDiabolismiX wrote: »

The necessity of needing and wanting are two seperate things. Of course you don’t need to, but if someone wants to, they should have the capability to do so.

Your magsorc? So youre stating you have multiple characters? Let me guess, for multiple occasions? So if OP has ONE character in which they choose to play and max out what they want, you’re saying that’s ok, forget how they want to play, in a (twisted) form of being able to play how you want?

Again, this is where the misinterpretation of “play as you want” becomes a factor. If someone WANTS to spend points in everything imaginable, they might need to accept that they CAN’T. Just like someone might WANT to play a dual sword and board hybrid DPS, but might need to accept that playing “as they want” will get them kicked out of vet dungeon groups. “Play as you want” , if you read the back of the game box, doesn’t mean “do whatever you want in game with no consequences.”

Lol I am honestly just trolling, but it’s funny that you mention playing dw and snb will get you kicked out of a vet dungeon because again, its dependent on how YOU play and portray the game. While I agree I would definitely kick someone like that, that’s how WE enjoy playing how we want... I would like to see the dictionary you wrote on how to interpret “play how you want” fits into everyones point of view, would be a nice read.

But the topic has veered and I have given several opinions while listening to others. Point still stands there’s not enough points for one person to do what they want.

I realize you're trolling, @XiDiabolismiX, but this is seriously one of my biggest pet peeves in these forums. I didn't write any dictionary on how to interpret "play as you want" because ZOS EXPLAINED IT ON THE BACK OF THE GAME BOX.



"Play the way you like. Battle, craft, fish, steal, siege, or explore. The choice is yours to make."

It's not: "Play the way you like. Invest into every skill line and passive to battle, craft, fish, steal, siege, AND explore without making any choices whatsoever because you're a super special jack-of-all-trades who gets to do everything yay huzzah."

Aurielle

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

XiDiabolismiX wrote: »

Alright...

Thats being generous with only 2 weapon lines and 1 armor line. I know most people choose to not max everything but if that’s what the OP chooses to do and how they want to play, then no... there is not enough skill points in the game to sustain a main crafter with two more skill lines coming out.

And at some point we have to concede that ZOS is challenging players to choose how many skills they have at any one time either on their bar or known by their character. It's part of their game.

YES. THANK YOU. There are fewer skill points than there are skills/passives in the game for a reason. If ZOS wanted players to be able to spend points on every single skill/morph/passive, the number of points available would be equal to the number of skills/morphs/passives. It's an MMORPG: you're not SUPPOSED to be able to do absolutely everything on one character. Why the heck do you people think we have eight character slots starting out?

Bottom line: there are more than enough skill points available to master crafting, be effective in PVE/PVP, AND still enjoy the new jewellery crafting/Psijic lines. The BS people continue to spew in these forums based on the misguided idea that "play the way you like" means that the game is your own personal sandbox where you can do whatever the heck you like is so frustrating.

Troneon

Damn this topic just blew up....log in to find 30+ notifications...

Slick_007

Asardes wrote: »

- stamina characters don't need any of the Mages Guild skills, and even tank only use Balance (2) and passives Mage Adept (2) and Everlasting Magic (2) to better make use of the former

incorrect. stam characters would take 1 mage guild passive.

Linaleah

sigh. i understand all about having to make choices. even those of use who use all our skill points RIGHT NOW - had to make choices. the problem is - come summerset, we are going to have to make MORE choices, choices were we need to decide on what we can give up on that we are CURRENTLY using something we already had to give up on something else to chose RIGHT NOW. unless there are enough points ADDED to cover new skill lines.

those of you with extra skill points? don't have to make that choice, which is why your insistence that we should is so damn vexing.

I don't care if all of the new skill points added are added to summerset proper only. if new ways that are not "grinding pvp for years" are added to the base game? great. that's fine. AS LONG AS THEY ARE ADDED.

The_Protagonist

VaranisArano wrote: »

baltic1284 wrote: »

For the skills arnt and issue as stated above plenty of skyshards to get her done my main issue is a lack of reliable resources of what I need. Kinda getting tired of running around looking for resources when there is none to be had cause the rest keep taking theme.

Try the starter zones like Bal Foyen or Stros M'Kai. They have the same number of nodes as the bigger zones and are much closer together.

Why does everyone ruin my favorite farming spots

DoctorESO

Troneon wrote: »

Lets get this one out the way early

Dear ZOS,

With Jewelry crafting skills/passives incoming, us crafters with only one char need your help!

Please gives us morezz skillpointz...



Save a crafter today!

Cheers

They can start by giving us the tutorial skillpoint.

Aurielle

Linaleah wrote: »

sigh. i understand all about having to make choices. even those of use who use all our skill points RIGHT NOW - had to make choices. the problem is - come summerset, we are going to have to make MORE choices, choices were we need to decide on what we can give up on that we are CURRENTLY using something we already had to give up on something else to chose RIGHT NOW. unless there are enough points ADDED to cover new skill lines.

those of you with extra skill points? don't have to make that choice, which is why your insistence that we should is so damn vexing.

I don't care if all of the new skill points added are added to summerset proper only. if new ways that are not "grinding pvp for years" are added to the base game? great. that's fine. AS LONG AS THEY ARE ADDED.

@Linaleah: Want to know the reason why I have 25 unused skill points on my main? It’s because I’ve already made some hard choices about my character’s role. Don’t tell me my argument is “vexing” because I somehow don’t have to make any choices, come Summerset, when I’ve already made said choices. I am able to enjoy every form of content the game offers on my main — from crafting to vMA — and I did not have to grind in Cyrodiil for “years” to enjoy that luxury. I’m only alliance rank 7 on my main, in fact. I have not discovered every skyshard in the game, nor have I completed every skill point-granting quest in the game. I could EASILY have 40+ unused skill points prior to Summerset if I stopped being lazy and took my main through DC and TG/DB.

My main primarily does DPS, but has a few flex skills unlocked to help out if a healer or tank is lacking. If I want to play a dedicated tank or healer, I have alts that are MUCH better suited for those roles. Deciding to roll alts was a fairly easy decision to make, as there are optimal and suboptimal race/class combinations for each role (and I tend to go for optimal). Rolling alts to fulfill different combat roles makes sense, given that this is an MMORPG. You can certainly RE-ROLL an existing character by resetting and re-allocating skill points, but expecting to be able to do it all on the fly is a bit unrealistic, given the nature of the genre and the devs’ deliberate decision to offer fewer skill points than the total number of skills/passives/morphs in the game.

XiDiabolismiX

@Aurielle you can make claims the same as everyone else, and thats ok, its your opinion which is fine to express. The only issue I have is you’re telling people how they should play and enjoy the game.

Just because you find making alts and re-rolling is an easy thing, that doesn’t mean everyone else does. Of course, I agree with your statements, I have many alts myself with dedicated crafters, as well as high end, end game raiding characters, but don’t push your playstyle on others, it gets nowhere.

I still defend OP’s original idea, because they may only like to play ONE character, and for their style, there is not enough skill points.

Aurielle

XiDiabolismiX wrote: »

@Aurielle you can make claims the same as everyone else, and thats ok, its your opinion which is fine to express. The only issue I have is you’re telling people how they should play and enjoy the game.

Just because you find making alts and re-rolling is an easy thing, that doesn’t mean everyone else does. Of course, I agree with your statements, I have many alts myself with dedicated crafters, as well as high end, end game raiding characters, but don’t push your playstyle on others, it gets nowhere.

I still defend OP’s original idea, because they may only like to play ONE character, and for their style, there is not enough skill points.

I'm not telling anyone how to play the game; I'm merely explaining why they're over-exaggerating the "problem." There are not enough skill points to do what some people in this thread want to do, because they're not playing the game as it is intended to be played. If the developers really wanted players to be able to spend a point in every skill line in existence, do you honestly not think they would have made it readily possible to do so? As @wenchmore420b14_ESO pointed out, there are 394 skill points in ESO, and 546 things on which to spend said points. You know what that suggests to me? It suggests that the developers want players to make choices. This is an MMORPG, after all. It is in ZOS's best interests to encourage players to roll alts by deliberately limiting the number of skill points available.

As things currently stand, there are MORE than enough skill points available to max out crafting and also make your main 100% effective in at least one PVE role and one PVP role, with plenty of skill points to spare for the new crafting and Psijic lines. You can even branch out into other roles if you like, and are willing to make compromises in other areas. However, if you want to spend points in all weapon lines, all world lines, all guild lines, and all armour lines so that your character can be an expert mage one moment, then a rugged tank the next, then a medium armour thief the next, then a PVP bomber the next (and so on), you might be playing the wrong game. "Play as you like" does not mean "do whatever you want without consequences," but so many people misquote that line when they don't get their way. Booted from a vet dungeon for dealing 5k DPS on your RP S&B hybrid Nord warrior build? "Wah, but the game says I can play how I want." Can't max out a new guild line because you've spent a bajillion points in every single other skill line? "Wah, but the game says I can play how I want." The entitlement and endless complaining secondary to the entitlement is so frustrating.

Taleof2Cities

Nice post @Aurielle.

Agree, the problem is over-exaggerated ... though the devs aren’t going to change the skill point allotment anyway.

Time for players to start specializing. After all, you only have 15 character spots for specialty characters.

Juju_beans

XiDiabolismiX wrote: »

Lol the point is not what you deem as un-needed. The point is the OP plays one main character wanting to partake in everything in the game and is unable to due to not having enough skill points.

Everyone is going to have an opinion of what is un-needed, its your own personal interpretation, not theirs. Stop implying spending points in multiple build specs. I gave an example of TWO weapon lines, ONE armor line, ALL CLASS passives, and the rest into crafting and world lines (427 total), there is NOT enough skill points in game to achieve this, let alone when they release two more skill lines.

They made it this way to make a gold-sink forcing players to constantly re-spec depending what aspect of the game theyre playing and that is cheap and lazy.

But the game is not set up so that you can. Now that might be a problem for the OP because you can't have it all in this game with one character. And maybe that was a design point...choose carefully and prioritize.

xaraan

Linaleah wrote: »

yes because despite the fact that PVP skill points take insane amount of time to grind even for someone who is a dedicated pvper, let alone a more casual and/or diverse content player - we are not allowed to express concern? DLC skill points are 100% required now? seriously.

you people need to sit down and think about what it is that you are requiring.

You're upset about DLC skill points being needed for DLC content.... makes sense. If you only look at base game skills, then you don't need DLC bonus skill points for them.

Also, I took pvp into consideration in my statements. You don't need it, but it's not difficult to level up even a moderate amount in pvp to get an extra dozen skill points if one desired. (And again, if you want to avoid pvp like the plague, then same response as above for DLC - don't take the two extra pvp skill lines, then there are points you won't have to spend)

xaraan

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

"I don't use every skill point therefore those who do shouldn't complain" - nice attitude guys.

If you don't have every skill point available in the game (not even counting maxing out pvp) then this comment is just hot air.

Then count this comment as more than just hot air. And now? Does this make any difference in this debate?

It always amazes me how some people here put others down just because their needs don’t fall together with the issues of other peoples. Just for once, try to imagine that other people play this game differently than you do. Why oppose that? Especially if it doesn’t impact you negatively. (Generaly speaking, not directly about you xaraan)

Since we don’t know how many points become available with SS and how many points the new lines will consume, this is a legit concern.

My main is the one I do pve (dd & tank) and pvp (ma & ha,) with. I also do stealing and crafting with it. That means 3 class and 4 weapon lines just for some combinations in combative gameplay. On top of the guilds, world, racial and crafting lines.
Point is that being able to perform more than just one role on one chat will consume a lot more sp than you guys might think it does.

Same here for my main. He does all crafts. He's also a stam DD, tank and I've done a moderate amount of pvp with him (though I tend to pvp on lots of different characters - point is, he spends points in pvp skills). He's also one of my NBs who has done DB and TG stuff and leveled those guilds.

So I DO KNOW how expensive it is to do all of that.

Which means I ALSO KNOW it can be done.

(And that guy doesn't even have every skill point available in the game yet - though I do have most).

But frankly (I know you weren't directing just to me) people aren't putting anyone down (for most part, there is always someone trolling), but calling you (or others) out because we know the facts.

As for points available with SS: I guess we'll get an idea Monday, but my guess is: 4 points from skyshards, 3 from main quest line (Big zones seem to get 3, small zones seem to get 8), one from trial, two from group events in what I assume are two new public dungeons (as most large zones added have gotten two of those). This gives us 10 more at least. Which by itself probably pays for most of jewelry crafting from the looks of it. So from the rest of the game we'll have to pay for Psijiic skills unless there is some other source of points added (which there are enough of - personally with me doing all the same stuff as you, I have enough points sitting there doing nothing on my guy to pay for it right now).

Lilly_Elessa

To offset the "skill points are fine" ...

As an on and off again player that joined the game late (a few years ago, so not new but far from being in at the start), I would greatly appreciate having more easy skill points that are from a new source. Because yes, there are plenty if you do absolutely everything with one character, but that is doing absolutely everything and you still have to be very choosy about where you put all of your skill points.
Also, I think most people who fit a description like mine won't come on here until there's already a problem, as this description tends to not frequent forums. I only noticed this from a google search about where else I can wrangle up some more skill points before Summerset gets here.

I, like most people, have alts. Yes, that absolutely means replaying content you've already done, but in a game like this I feel like that should involve more choice in the content I replay, rather than feeling like I definitely have to scrape these same exact stories over and over for skill points. It really detracts from doing all of the side quests or just plain exploring like ZOS seems to want us to be able to do. Or it detracts from doing skill point poor quest lines across multiple alts like the mage/fighter guilds (must do on crafter for set benches but other alts can completely ignore), Thieves Guild, Morrowind, and Orsinium. Those were fun story lines, but instead of doing those again multiple alts are forced into doing the older alliances where the story flags in some places or is just plain repetitive. Or doing Clockwork City, for comparatively little effort and a bounty of 8 skill points for the story line. ... This part started being less about just crafting, but since my crafter has to go around and scrape all of these for points, it pushes other alts to just do the skill point rich lines instead of (or at least before) whatever I think may be fun to do on the character.

I, like many many many people, loathe pvp. According to UESP wiki, that is roughly 50* skill points I will absolutely never get. It's also a handful I'll never spend, but it is a net gain of skill points I will not achieve. While I enjoy dungeons and raids, these are also very difficult to get a gimpy dedicated crafter through that has one solo build. I've managed to get through a lot of them with my crafter, but I absolutely understand the difficulty that others will complain about. Likewise, popular public dungeons are extremely easy to get the group challenge done in, and some of the challenges are (or were before One Tamriel) very easy to solo. But for unpopular public dungeons with actually challenging challenges it is hard to find people to help with killing those bosses.
(* Edit: More than 50, since that's just ranking up alliance war. It doesn't include the cyrodiil skyshards, or whatever else is sideways connected to pvp.)

Since someone said you could move the consumables to another character to split up the skill point burden:
You can't if you want to craft furniture, which I at least absolutely do like doing. Most of the recipes have a requirement of ranks in two or more crafts, and they absolutely include a mix of the gear and consumable professions. I had two of my consumable crafts on other alts until the housing came out, and leveled up those up on my gear crafter as soon as I saw the recipes for furniture. No complaints from me for that! It makes sense, and I'd been lazy with my gear crafter not collecting some of Cadwell's objectives anyways (did it with other characters, super super repetitive) so I had plenty of skill points to go obtain. Now with jewelry coming I'm starting to scrape the edges but... I'm not avoiding the effort, but I fully admit I'd be happier not having to replay some of the things I've been chasing down.
But if you're not and never plan to be into housing, then sure, split those off and reduce the burden. Specially alchemy since it's really helpful on your combat alts to increase your potion buff duration, but that won't really help your solo-only crafter that doesn't need to min/max for open world and delves.


tldr; People are going to whine, but people will be happier and more entertained with the game if there's less reason to whine. (The UESP wiki says Morrowind only gave 3 storyline skill points!?? I wasn't counting at the time, but now that makes me worry for Summerset!)

Aurielle

Lilly_Elessa wrote: »

To offset the "skill points are fine" ...

As an on and off again player that joined the game late (a few years ago, so not new but far from being in at the start), I would greatly appreciate having more easy skill points that are from a new source. Because yes, there are plenty if you do absolutely everything with one character, but that is doing absolutely everything and you still have to be very choosy about where you put all of your skill points.
Also, I think most people who fit a description like mine won't come on here until there's already a problem, as this description tends to not frequent forums. I only noticed this from a google search about where else I can wrangle up some more skill points before Summerset gets here.

I, like most people, have alts. Yes, that absolutely means replaying content you've already done, but in a game like this I feel like that should involve more choice in the content I replay, rather than feeling like I definitely have to scrape these same exact stories over and over for skill points. It really detracts from doing all of the side quests or just plain exploring like ZOS seems to want us to be able to do. Or it detracts from doing skill point poor quest lines across multiple alts like the mage/fighter guilds (must do on crafter for set benches but other alts can completely ignore), Thieves Guild, Morrowind, and Orsinium. Those were fun story lines, but instead of doing those again multiple alts are forced into doing the older alliances where the story flags in some places or is just plain repetitive. Or doing Clockwork City, for comparatively little effort and a bounty of 8 skill points for the story line. ... This part started being less about just crafting, but since my crafter has to go around and scrape all of these for points, it pushes other alts to just do the skill point rich lines instead of (or at least before) whatever I think may be fun to do on the character.

I, like many many many people, loathe pvp. According to UESP wiki, that is roughly 50 skill points I will absolutely never get. It's also a handful I'll never spend, but it is a net gain of skill points I will not achieve. While I enjoy dungeons and raids, these are also very difficult to get a gimpy dedicated crafter through that has one solo build. I've managed to get through a lot of them with my crafter, but I absolutely understand the difficulty that others will complain about. Likewise, popular public dungeons are extremely easy to get the group challenge done in, and some of the challenges are (or were before One Tamriel) very easy to solo. But for unpopular public dungeons with actually challenging challenges it is hard to find people to help with killing those bosses.

Since someone said you could move the consumables to another character to split up the skill point burden:
You can't if you want to craft furniture, which I at least absolutely do like doing. Most of the recipes have a requirement of ranks in two or more crafts, and they absolutely include a mix of the gear and consumable professions. I had two of my consumable crafts on other alts until the housing came out, and leveled up those up on my gear crafter as soon as I saw the recipes for furniture. No complaints from me for that! It makes sense, and I'd been lazy with my gear crafter not collecting a lot of stuff anyways so I had plenty of skill points to go obtain. Now with jewelry coming I'm starting to scrape the edges but... I'm not avoiding the effort, but I fully admit I'd be happier not having to replay some of the things I've been chasing down.
But if you're not and never plan to be into housing, then sure, split those off and reduce the burden. Specially alchemy since it's really helpful on your combat alts to increase your potion buff duration, but that won't really help your solo-only crafter that doesn't need to min/max for open world and delves.


tldr; People are going to whine, but people will be happier and more entertained with the game if there's less reason to whine. (The UESP wiki says Morrowind only gave 3 storyline skill points!?? I wasn't counting at the time, but now that makes me worry for Summerset!)

What platform are you on? If you're on PS4 NA, I will happily carry your crafter through through the rest of the normal dungeons you've yet to complete at a click of 10-15 mins per dungeon. There's absolutely no reason why any player shouldn't have all of the dungeon skill points available, given that normal base game dungeons can be soloed very easily by any CP 250-300+ DPS character. If you're not on PS4 NA, ask in your guilds -- most people are more than happy to help when asked.

Morgul667

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

"I don't use every skill point therefore those who do shouldn't complain" - nice attitude guys.

Pretty much sums it up all very nicely

Aurielle

Morgul667 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

"I don't use every skill point therefore those who do shouldn't complain" - nice attitude guys.

Pretty much sums it up all very nicely

Disagree. It's not an "attitude." The game by design forces people to make choices. It is not possible to spend a point on every skill/morph/passive in the game for a reason. This is an MMORPG; the genre encourages alts and specialization, and ESO is no different. If you want to spend the maximum number of points in all weapon lines, all guild lines, all armour lines, and all world lines on one character, you're playing the wrong game.

I repeat: it is VERY possible to have a master crafter who is 100% combat ready and still have oodles of skill points left over. Summerset will bring even more skill points. If you can't max out jewellery crafting or the Psijic line with the skill points available in Summerset, then you will have to make some choices. Asking the devs for more skill points will likely not work, given that they want players to make choices.

Asardes

josiahva wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

You don't actually need to spec everything in a skill line to make it effective. A few examples:
- magicka characters only need Banish the Wicked (3) passive from Fighters guild, maybe Rearming/Lightweight trap (2)
- magicka characters that 2W only need Twin Blade and Blunt (2) from that skill line
- magicka Sorcerer, DK, Warden will never need Immovable Brute (2) since they have much better class skill lines that give the same buffs
- stamina characters don't need any of the Mages Guild skills, and even tank only use Balance (2) and passives Mage Adept (2) and Everlasting Magic (2) to better make use of the former
- tanks only need Elemental Blockade (2) and Crushing Shock (2) skills from Destruction Staff, and optionally Elemental Expert (2) passive, but you are actually better off without Tri-Focus (2)
- magicka characters have absolutely no reason to go WW since those skills are mostly stamina based
- if you wear a mix of armor types you only need to spec the dominant (5 piece one) fully, while only allocating 9 points at most to get the full passives from the others

~360 is currently the limit where you actually find it hard to pick anymore skills to sink your new skillpoints in. Summerset actually brings some usage to those.

You are completely missing the point. When I swap between roles, I shouldnt have to move skill points around. On my Tank toon as an example...I will run run say Direfrost Keep all the way up to the last boss(Drodda) where a tank is worthless, then using an add-on swap gear and skills to DPS spec. A tank wearing DPS gear and using DPS skills, does not a DPS make, but I am still able to pull something over 20k with this method....this method is only viable because I DONT have to move skillpoints around. Presumably I could gold out another set of gear and actually heal using this same method if I used say Seducer and Alteration Mastery....not the strongest heals, but easily sustained...but it all requires skill points in a lot of lines...especially if I had to have maxxed out crafting lines in addition to all of that. The point is that you should be able to swap to any given role on the fly...this would help in vet dungeons immensely if your healer or tank disconnects mid-run and you dont need to wait around 30 minutes for a replacement. Obviously substitute roles like this aren't ideal, but should be able to be managed by most competent players familiar with the roles they are subbing

Nope, I'm not missing the point. In fact that's exactly how I setup my 5 main characters. Each of them has:
- all racial and class skills and passives fully specced into
- 2-4 weapon lines fully specced into (stamina -> 2W, 2H, Bow, 1H+S, magicka -> resto & destro staff, partially 1H+S)
- heavy and either medium or light armor fully specced into except some active skills (explained why), 7-9 points in the remaining one
- most crafting lines fully specced into (including research passives for those who haven't finished yet)
- either fighters or mages guild fully specced into depending if it's stamina or magicka
- all passives & useful skills from Alliance War specced into
- all passives & useful skills from Undaunted specced into
- ledgermain sneak cost reduction passive
etc.

This takes roughly 360 skill points, and the 12 from research passive will come down. Need be I can trim ~20 more from skills that I never used in either PvE or PvP.

As a result they can have:
- one or more PvP setups
- several PvE DD setups
- one or several PvE support setups (stamina -> tank, magicka -> healer)
All of those are saved in addons, including gear and bar setups. All PvE ones are capable of performing at least in veteran DLC dungeons, and all PvP ones perform quite well, especially in no-CP. Of course some would need CP and maybe attribute point adjustments to be 100% optimal (ex. tank would need most attributes into health and more CP into Shadow Ward) but that's beside the point.

So I stick by my opinion - Summerset will actually give players something to do with those skill points instead of spending them just to fill some pointless skills & passives.

mike_skleinub17_ESO

I have 12 available right now. This character hasn't done most of the normal dungeons even, nor completed thieves, dark, or even morrowind I think. I have gone through all DLC regions except IMP city/sewers and gotten the overland ones at least. I do have all the base game plus cyrodil shards, both above and below ground.

So..will be plenty if I put in the work to get them. Or..i'll just respec and take only the skills I need to be viable in normal dungeons at least.

mike_skleinub17_ESO

rumple9 wrote: »

A skill point should be given for every 20 CP gained after level 50 and when Summerset comes these skill points should be granted retrospectively

Maybe every 100 CPs...or 50. 20 is to low

xaraan

To be fair to the players acting like they have a right to the rewards from a portion of the game they wish to avoid, I say the same thing to pvp players whining about doing pve for stuff - If you choose to only do a portion of the game and not the whole game, that choice is on you, not ZoS to provide you with a special way to get bonus stuff for less work just because you don't want to do something.

This game is not a pve only game, it's not a crafter only game, it's not a pvp only game, it's not a trials only game, etc. If you want to purchase this game and then only do a fraction of the content, then no, you shouldn't have access to the rewards of the total content.

So if you choose to never go into pvp, then don't cry about not getting skyshards in cyrodiil or skillpoints from leveling up there. You made the choice, live with it. And frankly, it's not hard to go into a non-busy campaign and pick up most of the shards - what's the worst that's going to happen? You'll get killed and just respawn somewhere - which frankly makes it easier if you die after getting the shard you were after. You can also level up pretty easily for the first several levels even by just hanging around a fight healing, repairing keeps, taking resources, flipping flags in IC, etc and get an easy 5-10 skill points that way.

And honestly, to everyone saying they don't have enough skill points - you should really post a screen shot like the player did several posts back from the Skill Finder add on and let us see what content you've skipped so we know how seriously your complaint is.

Sordidfairytale

Lilly_Elessa wrote: »

(The UESP wiki says Morrowind only gave 3 storyline skill points!?? I wasn't counting at the time, but now that makes me worry for Summerset!)

As a "Skill points are fine" camp member; that was an excellent post. Two things; I am certain that we'll get more skill points with Summerset and I don't believe that there were any skills added with Morrowind, so with that in mind, I'll be pushing for more skill points in Summerset for sure.

If you're PC NA hit me up and I'll help you to finish any dungeon you need to get skill points.

xaraan

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Lilly_Elessa wrote: »

(The UESP wiki says Morrowind only gave 3 storyline skill points!?? I wasn't counting at the time, but now that makes me worry for Summerset!)

As a "Skill points are fine" camp member; that was an excellent post. Two things; I am certain that we'll get more skill points with Summerset and I don't believe that there were any skills added with Morrowind, so with that in mind, I'll be pushing for more skill points in Summerset for sure.

I pointed this out earlier when I said what I believed would be the skill point totals we'd get from Summerset.

So far: Large zones like Morrowind and Wrothgar we got 3 skill points from questline.

Then we would get a few more from skyshards (I believe one had an odd number of shards b/c IC did and it evened it out skill point wise).

Then you get one Skill Point from the group event in public dungeons, which both of those zones had two of.

So I'm not assuming we'll get more than that.

(Smaller zones like CC, Hews Bane, Gold Coast gave us 8/6/8 skill points - only two of which added skill lines to the game)

Now with Psijiic added, I could see them creating a way to earn some extra points, but lets not forget - Clockwork city added 11 skill points to the game (and you can hammer that out in a few hours) and didn't create any spending - so it's not like it's a given or even needed unless you are skipping other content and missing skill points.

And if they do not add anymore than they did with Wrothgar or Vvardenfell, then you may just find your points tight until they put out the rest of this years content which will probably be at least one DLC with 2 dungeons (2 skill points) and another small zone - where they seem to give about 8+ points counting shards.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Lilly_Elessa wrote: »
(The UESP wiki says Morrowind only gave 3 storyline skill points!?? I wasn't counting at the time, but now that makes me worry for Summerset!)

There were a total of 12 Skill points with Morrowind......
Morrowind skyshards: 6
Complete Morrowind tutorial: 1
Complete Vivec quest line: 1
Complete Morag Tong quest line: 1
Complete Telvanni quest line: 1
Complete Morrowind public dungeon event: 2

I honestly expect close to the same amount for Summerset...

Taleof2Cities

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Players have over a month to gain skill points if they start now ... rather than not do anything about it and complain in the forums.

Moreover, PC players have the advantage of skill point tracking add-ons ... such as Ulrich's Skill Point Finder.

Just wanted to repeat this for clarity.

... before the whining hits again on the May 21 patch drop.

Malborn66

When my Main Master Crafter reached the top I respecced his abilities to drop the no longer essential Crafting Passive Skills and thus have a substantial pool of skill points to use in Summerset.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Malborn66 wrote: »

When my Main Master Crafter reached the top I respecced his abilities to drop the no longer essential Crafting Passive Skills and thus have a substantial pool of skill points to use in Summerset.

There's not so much you can drop, except the research passives (that's only 12 skill points) and perhaps the assistants (that would be 15 skill points).