Templars need reform because the game has changed

dodgehopper_ESO

MightyBantam34 wrote: »

Nice post , I actually stream magplar and your right hardly anyone wants to watch a magplar , toppling charge is so bad it’s so predictable that when I have to back up to try land it theopponent knows exactly what’s going to happen and end up cc’ing me when I charge towards them , been caught mid toppling charge with a wrecking blow nb can can ambush no problems sorcs streak or rune, dks talon or fossilze with ease

Toppling charge should be a cool skill - instead it simply infuriates you as the user of the skill. I'd like to add that it often never fires off, and has a tendency to glitch-lock you from being able to use skills on the bar or light/heavy attack/block. Everything about this skill screams the point I've been making for years that they need to really work on Templar badly. Templar is a big glitchfest and they never seem to tackle that issue or even note the reality of it.

Drdeath20

Templar pain points

-no passives that help with recovery

-having to invest 4 skill points into a skill that is mediocre

-a healing ritual that is on par with BoL and in many situations is preferred

-capability to keep up with other classes DPS and burst

-skills that make sense and synergies with each other for a common playstyle

-a way to turn a fight around

Instead we got BoL nerfed down to make healing ritual more enticing and our sweeps does a very subtle increase in damage and healing.

After seeing all the changes this game has made over the last years. I seriously doubt ZoS has testers but if they do their templar tester must be the most OP video game player ever. Thats the only way i can see them justifying a monster nerf every patch

Mr_Nobody

Since we are getting nerfed, at least considering pre-pts notes, i got another point...

I have been playing some bow nb lately and noticed two differences between Lethal Arrow and Dark Flare.

Lethal Arrow can only be dodged before projectile hits it's target.

Dark Flare can be dodged if the target rolls at any given time from the point you click DF button (start casting it), till hits.

Why is that so?

MalakithAlamahdi

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Since we are getting nerfed, at least considering pre-pts notes, i got another point...

I have been playing some bow nb lately and noticed two differences between Lethal Arrow and Dark Flare.

Lethal Arrow can only be dodged before projectile hits it's target.

Dark Flare can be dodged if the target rolls at any given time from the point you click DF button (start casting it), till hits.

Why is that so?

Because templars aren't supposed to do damage, they can only spam BoL and cri inside.

For real, I noticed the same. It's impossible to hit this against anyone who pays attention.

ofSunhold

Not sure I can deal with this again, why did I come back to this game?

Good luck, Templars.

CatchMeTrolling

Is there any direct changes for stamplar? Magplars need love but I can’t help but feel like stamplars rarely get any love.

dodgehopper_ESO

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Is there any direct changes for stamplar? Magplars need love but I can’t help but feel like stamplars rarely get any love.

Mostly hate - lots of hate. Tankplar gets a lot of hate too, mainly because the class can tank, apart from having no apparent cc.

Minno

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Is there any direct changes for stamplar? Magplars need love but I can’t help but feel like stamplars rarely get any love.

Yea it does seem less Stam heavy. Then again empower change is a Nerf to all Stam classes, crit DMG modifier boosting healing nerfs stamina, but two hander now counts as 2 items on sets.

Need to see full pts notes from an official source to make a good assessment of everything though .

Checkmath

So every class get pretty much a burst heal, so they all can be healers now. Everyone gets chains, so we all can tank now. But the original healer class gets nothing?
Ok we get a bit more damage and healing from jabs....could be more tough to make difference.
We got an insta aoe bol for a ton of magicka. Will not be used in pve, we got healing springs there and for the fast huge heal bol probably is better with its range. For pvp, we have now 20k hps in ball groups with 3 templars...nice.
Small buff to honor the dead, which encourages blockhealbots.
The changes to solar disturbance wont make it more popular in my opinion. In pve enemies rarely move away from it and in pvp 4 seconds of snare and maim isnt much.
Oh burning lights damage buffed slightly. Same as jabs, we probably wont feel the difference.

I really dont know what zenimax thinks templars should be. Still no house effect, no cc inside class skills, only one more option of ccing, which is available for everyone....
Ok 2h and stabes count as two set pieces, thats not bad and will bring variety to cyrodiil. Maybe i change to 2h, looks cooler and gives a decent ultimate. Also staves now will be even more popular on templars. But we dont get much out of this change, but stamina toons will with the additional set piece on 2h and bow builds.

Ok i like some general changes and im curious about the eventually op stun which comes with the psychic skilline. But the class balance changes are garbage till now!

CatchMeTrolling

Minno wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Is there any direct changes for stamplar? Magplars need love but I can’t help but feel like stamplars rarely get any love.

Yea it does seem less Stam heavy. Then again empower change is a Nerf to all Stam classes, crit DMG modifier boosting healing nerfs stamina, but two hander now counts as 2 items on sets.

Need to see full pts notes from an official source to make a good assessment of everything though .

I’d be fine with passive changes, there’s still passives that need to be removed completely and others that need to be reworked.

2h change is nice but probably isn’t a good idea to be honest now that jewelry crafting is available, plus this means you can now run 2 sets on your front bar which should be very interesting.

Minno

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Is there any direct changes for stamplar? Magplars need love but I can’t help but feel like stamplars rarely get any love.

Yea it does seem less Stam heavy. Then again empower change is a Nerf to all Stam classes, crit DMG modifier boosting healing nerfs stamina, but two hander now counts as 2 items on sets.

Need to see full pts notes from an official source to make a good assessment of everything though .

I’d be fine with passive changes, there’s still passives that need to be removed completely and others that need to be reworked.

2h change is nice but probably isn’t a good idea to be honest now that jewelry crafting is available, plus this means you can now run 2 sets on your front bar which should be very interesting.

We are going to have fun testing on pts lol

Mr_Nobody

Checkmath wrote: »

So every class get pretty much a burst heal, so they all can be healers now. Everyone gets chains, so we all can tank now. But the original healer class gets nothing?
Ok we get a bit more damage and healing from jabs....could be more tough to make difference.
We got an insta aoe bol for a ton of magicka. Will not be used in pve, we got healing springs there and for the fast huge heal bol probably is better with its range. For pvp, we have now 20k hps in ball groups with 3 templars...nice.
Small buff to honor the dead, which encourages blockhealbots.
The changes to solar disturbance wont make it more popular in my opinion. In pve enemies rarely move away from it and in pvp 4 seconds of snare and maim isnt much.
Oh burning lights damage buffed slightly. Same as jabs, we probably wont feel the difference.

I really dont know what zenimax thinks templars should be. Still no house effect, no cc inside class skills, only one more option of ccing, which is available for everyone....
Ok 2h and stabes count as two set pieces, thats not bad and will bring variety to cyrodiil. Maybe i change to 2h, looks cooler and gives a decent ultimate. Also staves now will be even more popular on templars. But we dont get much out of this change, but stamina toons will with the additional set piece on 2h and bow builds.

Ok i like some general changes and im curious about the eventually op stun which comes with the psychic skilline. But the class balance changes are garbage till now!

this does not work in pvp. Idk if they drunk there in the office or what but if they havent seen or noticed yet after 12556 forum threads that Purge (ya, that spell from AR line, which ball groups run, usually like 3-4 Purge Bots) denies all such effects. A buff which wont actually do anything. You can dodge it, you can shuffle it, you can purge it, you can cleanse it - nada yada.

Empower nerf, i see what they did there also. A nerf to stamina builds, they said, right? Bowtards? Wrong. Out of all magicka builds Templars were utilizing Empower through DarkFlare the most. Look, l m a o, do you see my point? Are we now going to LA for an addition 200 damage each Dark Flare and lose 0.7 seconds? L m a o.

Zos guys need to get a grip. I hope there is at least a single competent templar there testing which can lead them to right directions regarding class balance in general.

Checkmath

I will still main magplar in pve and pvp, but i surely will drop dual wield for a staff or 2h. Also looking forward to try the psychic stun, maybe this will be some fun.

Cinbri

Templar representators will have a haaaard time.

Checkmath

Haha oh yeah that will be fun for the representatives. But lets hope they find a way to bring back glory to templars.

Drdeath20

Representative for Templar talks about pain points....

"To begin with, everything."

I kid.....well kinda

technohic

It’s going to be like always

Templar: “Here are our issues...(detailed reasoning and points)

Some other representatives “Templar heals to stronk. “

Wrobel: “Excellent point.” *nerfs new ritual. Fixes jabs/sweep being double effected by red CP tree.* “Wait. Now jabs actually parses as high as force pulse as a melee channel.” *nerfs jabs back down 5%*

That’s how it goes. Every. Single. Patch.

Wraithlyn

People have been asking for ways for templar to have a reliable way to return stamina without the corpse feed for repentance, and they nerfed that in Morrowind, but I rarely see a massive outcry because stamplars are such a small community that I don't think ZoS remembers what they are doing. That said, it seems stam is going to be back in the shitter next patch, a la homestead style, so I guess this may not matter in the end.

It just seems such a slap in the face that DK keeps getting more sustain yet stamina templar gets zilch for stam return. Speaks loud and clear where they stand on that issue.

maxjapank

Puncturing Strikes
Increased the damage done and healing received from this skill by 5%.
Burning Light
The damage from Burning Light has been increased slightly.

Very happy. Sure, I'd like to see the dmg buffed more. Perhaps the Balanced Warrior passive could still offer 6% spell dmg in addition to the already 6% weapon dmg. But I'm not complaining. Thank you. And maybe consider a bit more?

Solar Disturbance
Now applies Major Maim to the target and the debuff remains on the target for 4s after leaving the area. Snare effect will go on for 4 seconds after leaving the AoE.

Thank you. A very powerful group aoe ulti that just got even more powerful. Tyvm.

Breath of Life
the secondary heal has been nerfed by 30%.

I'm fine with this. Not happy. But I'll live. Healing Springs and Energy Orbs are the main healing spells in pvp anyways. And when a group needs burst healing, you use Remembrance anyways.

Honor the Dead
Magicka returned from this skill is now completed after 6 seconds instead of 8 seconds.

Minor buff. But it's still a buff. Might use this over Breath now.

Healing Ritual
This is now instant cast. the cost was increased by 60%

As Ixy pointed out, this has the potential to be very game-breaking, if combined with Infused jewelry and cost reduction enchants. But for pvp, it's still a 10m radius. Healing Springs is only 8m, but it has a 28m placement range. And will it outperform the healing of Mystic Orbs which offers a synergy and resource return? That's a good question. But I can see many pvp groups having at least one dedicated Healing Ritual healer. Healing Ritual is also affected by the Light Weaver passive which gives 2 ulti to allies under 60% health.

Pretty happy with all of this. Lots of minor buffs. And only 1 sorta major nerf, the breath of life nerf. Let's see if we can get a bit more.

ak_pvp

Templars: We need X.

ZOS: Lol no.

dodgehopper_ESO

Wraithlyn wrote: »

People have been asking for ways for templar to have a reliable way to return stamina without the corpse feed for repentance, and they nerfed that in Morrowind, but I rarely see a massive outcry because stamplars are such a small community that I don't think ZoS remembers what they are doing. That said, it seems stam is going to be back in the shitter next patch, a la homestead style, so I guess this may not matter in the end.

It just seems such a slap in the face that DK keeps getting more sustain yet stamina templar gets zilch for stam return. Speaks loud and clear where they stand on that issue.

Its hard to have an outcry when only 3 stubborn guys play that build because of bad design out the gate 4 years ago...

dodgehopper_ESO

maxjapank wrote: »

Puncturing Strikes
Increased the damage done and healing received from this skill by 5%.
Burning Light
The damage from Burning Light has been increased slightly.

Very happy. Sure, I'd like to see the dmg buffed more. Perhaps the Balanced Warrior passive could still offer 6% spell dmg in addition to the already 6% weapon dmg. But I'm not complaining. Thank you. And maybe consider a bit more?

Solar Disturbance
Now applies Major Maim to the target and the debuff remains on the target for 4s after leaving the area. Snare effect will go on for 4 seconds after leaving the AoE.

Thank you. A very powerful group aoe ulti that just got even more powerful. Tyvm.

Breath of Life
the secondary heal has been nerfed by 30%.

I'm fine with this. Not happy. But I'll live. Healing Springs and Energy Orbs are the main healing spells in pvp anyways. And when a group needs burst healing, you use Remembrance anyways.

Honor the Dead
Magicka returned from this skill is now completed after 6 seconds instead of 8 seconds.

Minor buff. But it's still a buff. Might use this over Breath now.

Healing Ritual
This is now instant cast. the cost was increased by 60%

As Ixy pointed out, this has the potential to be very game-breaking, if combined with Infused jewelry and cost reduction enchants. But for pvp, it's still a 10m radius. Healing Springs is only 8m, but it has a 28m placement range. And will it outperform the healing of Mystic Orbs which offers a synergy and resource return? That's a good question. But I can see many pvp groups having at least one dedicated Healing Ritual healer. Healing Ritual is also affected by the Light Weaver passive which gives 2 ulti to allies under 60% health.

Pretty happy with all of this. Lots of minor buffs. And only 1 sorta major nerf, the breath of life nerf. Let's see if we can get a bit more.

I wish burning light was a lot more like Implosion...

Aionna

maxjapank wrote: »

Healing Ritual
This is now instant cast. the cost was increased by 60%

As Ixy pointed out, this has the potential to be very game-breaking, if combined with Infused jewelry and cost reduction enchants. But for pvp, it's still a 10m radius. Healing Springs is only 8m, but it has a 28m placement range. And will it outperform the healing of Mystic Orbs which offers a synergy and resource return? That's a good question. But I can see many pvp groups having at least one dedicated Healing Ritual healer. Healing Ritual is also affected by the Light Weaver passive which gives 2 ulti to allies under 60% health.

Pretty happy with all of this. Lots of minor buffs. And only 1 sorta major nerf, the breath of life nerf. Let's see if we can get a bit more.

The cost of Healing Ritual will be 60% more than Rushed Ceremony which means it will cost ~7.2k magicka without any reductions from passives etc.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Aionna wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Healing Ritual
This is now instant cast. the cost was increased by 60%

As Ixy pointed out, this has the potential to be very game-breaking, if combined with Infused jewelry and cost reduction enchants. But for pvp, it's still a 10m radius. Healing Springs is only 8m, but it has a 28m placement range. And will it outperform the healing of Mystic Orbs which offers a synergy and resource return? That's a good question. But I can see many pvp groups having at least one dedicated Healing Ritual healer. Healing Ritual is also affected by the Light Weaver passive which gives 2 ulti to allies under 60% health.

Pretty happy with all of this. Lots of minor buffs. And only 1 sorta major nerf, the breath of life nerf. Let's see if we can get a bit more.

The cost of Healing Ritual will be 60% more than Rushed Ceremony which means it will cost ~7.2k magicka without any reductions from passives etc.

Where does it say that it is 60% more then breath? All the sources I alhave seen say it is 60% more then the cost of it right now, which would be 3780 right now and with the increase would be 6048. I mean that is a lot but still not 7k.

Aionna

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aionna wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Healing Ritual
This is now instant cast. the cost was increased by 60%

As Ixy pointed out, this has the potential to be very game-breaking, if combined with Infused jewelry and cost reduction enchants. But for pvp, it's still a 10m radius. Healing Springs is only 8m, but it has a 28m placement range. And will it outperform the healing of Mystic Orbs which offers a synergy and resource return? That's a good question. But I can see many pvp groups having at least one dedicated Healing Ritual healer. Healing Ritual is also affected by the Light Weaver passive which gives 2 ulti to allies under 60% health.

Pretty happy with all of this. Lots of minor buffs. And only 1 sorta major nerf, the breath of life nerf. Let's see if we can get a bit more.

The cost of Healing Ritual will be 60% more than Rushed Ceremony which means it will cost ~7.2k magicka without any reductions from passives etc.

Where does it say that it is 60% more then breath? All the sources I alhave seen say it is 60% more then the cost of it right now, which would be 3780 right now and with the increase would be 6048. I mean that is a lot but still not 7k.

In Shimmer's video and if I am not mistaken Gilliam said the same thing in his stream.

Here is a link from the forum and it is mentioned ~7:40 https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/404309/summerset-class-changes-discussed-at-zos-playtest/p1

Edit: Found Gilliam's https://youtube.com/watch?v=klEVWFpcOeU&t=5134s it is at 1:19:00 (he says 50% more than BoL )

Koensol

Of course it all remains to be seen, but the current information on the changes show a disturbing lack of intention to fix the issues magplars have to deal with. Having to run vamp or troll sets like cowards for any decent mobility is just unacceptable in the current state that the game is in. From what I can see now it seems like magplar will forever stay a group only class.

Elsterchen

Koensol wrote: »

Of course it all remains to be seen, but the current information on the changes show a disturbing lack of intention to fix the issues magtemplars have to deal with. Having to run vamp or troll sets like cowards for any decent mobility is just unacceptable in the current state that the game is in. From what I can see now it seems like magplar will forever stay a group only class. and stampars are the "buffbitches" I appologize for rude language, but as it is that's what they are called.

Fixed that for you.

edit: something is wrong with my postings... I guess this post will apear double.

technohic

They really do ignore Stamplar. I love playing Stamplar but Templar adds little to it outside of POTL. Extended ritual is only slightly cheaper than efficient purge and removes 3 extra DOTs and that’s nice; but nothing else really sets it apart from other classes much. Wardens have a buff that does the same as our rune focus but stays on them 20+ seconds while we have to recast every 8. Stam jabs/sweeps is in the same spot as the magicka version. Repentance is now the worst resource management tool in the game. Templar passives are maybe worst in game.

Probably would help if we had a Stamplar as persistent and vocal around here as people like Cinbri and Joy. Of course easy to say when I’m also not putting in much effort. I switch between magicka and stam too much to be as detailed.

I will say I will live to run Stamplar again when I can run 2 5 piece plus monster set on 2h/bow now. But so can anyone. Kind of good but a wash as far as adding anything of value.

Feanor

PvP wise I think Stamplars suffer from Jabs (if they hit) and PotL being really strong. That prevents buffs in other areas. It’s the same with other stuff across the game.

Minno

Aionna wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Aionna wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Healing Ritual
This is now instant cast. the cost was increased by 60%

As Ixy pointed out, this has the potential to be very game-breaking, if combined with Infused jewelry and cost reduction enchants. But for pvp, it's still a 10m radius. Healing Springs is only 8m, but it has a 28m placement range. And will it outperform the healing of Mystic Orbs which offers a synergy and resource return? That's a good question. But I can see many pvp groups having at least one dedicated Healing Ritual healer. Healing Ritual is also affected by the Light Weaver passive which gives 2 ulti to allies under 60% health.

Pretty happy with all of this. Lots of minor buffs. And only 1 sorta major nerf, the breath of life nerf. Let's see if we can get a bit more.

The cost of Healing Ritual will be 60% more than Rushed Ceremony which means it will cost ~7.2k magicka without any reductions from passives etc.

Where does it say that it is 60% more then breath? All the sources I alhave seen say it is 60% more then the cost of it right now, which would be 3780 right now and with the increase would be 6048. I mean that is a lot but still not 7k.

In Shimmer's video and if I am not mistaken Gilliam said the same thing in his stream.

Here is a link from the forum and it is mentioned ~7:40 https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/404309/summerset-class-changes-discussed-at-zos-playtest/p1

Edit: Found Gilliam's https://youtube.com/watch?v=klEVWFpcOeU&t=5134s it is at 1:19:00 (he says 50% more than BoL )

Yea conflicting English description on the cost. If it's the same cost as htd, I'm using it. If it's 6k cost, I'm not using it.