Something needs to be done about this "fake tank" crap

Twenty0zTsunami

VaranisArano wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

if it's a normal dungeon you have no reason to complain. unless everyone is on literally their first lvl 10. I fake tanked my way to lvl 50 on multiple characters. The only issue was on my ranger I couldnt really taunt, but even if we lost a player, the fights always ended in success.

I absolutely can complain in a normal dungeon when a fake tank leaves my healer with boos aggro on top of having to heal the group, buff the group, and dps the boss. My healer can tank on top of all that but shouldn't have to. And That's not accounting for whether a player is really squishy or a genuinely new player who needs a little more babysitting from the healer.

The run will be successful, sure, but the fake tank makes a lot more work for me. Which is the whole point, the fake tank gets a quick, easy run for them by throwing the work of tanking onto other people.

Dammit, Jim! I'm a healer, not a tank!

There's no "work" in tanking a normal non-dlc boss. Literally all you have to do as the person with aggro is stand still. Players will always be mediocre until they learn that they don't have to fear enemies in PvE. I regularly do vAA as healer, and I taunt the final boss every time so the group doesn't end up chain lightning'd to death. Usually I also end up pulling aggro on an axe or two when my Mending procs on them while they're only soft-taunted.

My first instinct is not to run away from them. A good player doesn't panic, and doesn't flee, they just do as they're supposed to and lead it back to the tank for them to taunt again, or in this case, pull the boss calmly back into the AoE. Once they learn that mobs are not something to panic over, they can actually start improving themselves as players.

I don't think you get my point.

You keep describing how people should deal with having a fake tank in group. You get aggro, you stand still, accept that normal bosses are nothing to be afraid of, and burn the boss. Which, yeah, I agree, thats the most efficient way to handle a fake tank situation.

My point is why should I have to? Why should my healer or my DD have to tank when that's NOT MY JOB? Why should the take tank expect other people to tank for them because they can't be bothered to do their job?

I dont think you get the "point". There is no "having to deal" because normal dungeons are faceroll. If you're strugglign, the problem probably lies within yourself

I'm not struggling. My healer can heal, buff, DPS AND tank. I'm just really annoyed that the tank isn't doing their job so it falls to me to pick up the slack on top of my own job.

it's a game, not a job. go outside.

LOL!

"Guys, I have to AFK, sorry."

"Why"

"Need to go outside and remember this is just a game, and the tank doesn't actually need to be a tank."

"WTF"

"Be back in a few, just need to stop and smell the roses."

If you'd take a step back and look at the way you're going on about it, you'd realize you're just proving my point

Ragnarok0130

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Right after they do something about the fake DPS I keep seem to be getting as group-mates via the activity finder...

They're not fake, just bad

I agree though, good tanks are hard to come by, and I hate fake tanks.

And tanks are an absolute must for Scalecaller

So you're saying they're failing to adequately pefrom the role they queued for?

Sounds alot like the tanks OP is posting about. I see no difference.

The OP is talking about someone who isn't spec'd for a role (ie Tank when they're really DPS) queuing for that role so they are incapable of fulfilling that role. The bad DPS is a real DPS but just doesn't do it well. It's the difference between lying for a quick queue pop and just not being good.

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO

Then what about "DPS" that do damage with healing staffs or the most common one that I see is DPS with shields. And what about tanks that taunt enemies that do more damage that the DPS, are they also no fulfilling their role?!

The only reason most high level players queue in such incorrect roles is only because of the XP rewards. If there were no XP rewards we would not queue at all, we would go solo the dungeons because they are super easy on normal.

Example: one time we have 2 DPS that had shields and did a total of 1-2% of the total damage. When they started to complain that they had no tank and healer we switched gear to properly tank and heal. We watched them suffer for 30 minutes as they got the boss down by only 5%. Why would anyone want to endure this.

If they made DPS to be autokicked if they do less than 30% on a boss then all players will be filling in their roles correctly as bad players will be kicked.

Runefang

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Right after they do something about the fake DPS I keep seem to be getting as group-mates via the activity finder...

They're not fake, just bad

I agree though, good tanks are hard to come by, and I hate fake tanks.

And tanks are an absolute must for Scalecaller

So you're saying they're failing to adequately pefrom the role they queued for?

Sounds alot like the tanks OP is posting about. I see no difference.

The OP is talking about someone who isn't spec'd for a role (ie Tank when they're really DPS) queuing for that role so they are incapable of fulfilling that role. The bad DPS is a real DPS but just doesn't do it well. It's the difference between lying for a quick queue pop and just not being good.

I find that a weak argument personally

Queuing for a role you can't do is bad regardless of whether you're doing it intentionally or not because the outcome is the same: either group fails or somebody has to put in extra effort to carry you through.

The main reason I don't care about the intention but the outcome? Because 90% of the failed PuGs I've been in have failed because of bad DPS, not bad tanks. I've stopped caring that they didn't know they were bad.

pod88kk

"Be the tank you want to see in the world"-Gandhi(kinda)

Jhalin

pod88kk wrote: »

"Be the tank you want to see in the world"-Gandhi(kinda)

Man I would love a tank that could solo the boss.

Back to the topic, as we've all told you, tanking is not needed in normal dungeons. It's most often a direct hindrance since you could have a dps in its place and run the content much faster and more efficiently.

If they let us queue into a dungeon solo, with no other group members, your encounters with "fake tanks" would go through the floor.

And again, you aren't going to get a "real" tank with any kind of speed. You're better off forgoing taunting in this case and just keep everyone grouped up (like they should be anyway) instead of waiting around for half an hour for a role that isn't even slightly necessary in normals.

LordSemaj

Fake healers are worse.

Glurin

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

Then what about "DPS" that do damage with healing staffs or the most common one that I see is DPS with shields.

As long as they do a fair amount of damage, and by fair I don't mean trial leaderboard level, then I don't really care what weapons they choose to use.

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

And what about tanks that taunt enemies that do more damage that the DPS, are they also no fulfilling their role?!

A tank's job is to keep the boss's attention on them and be able to survive being punched in the face a few times. Any damage they do, whether it's a little or a lot, is just gravy. Even if you're wearing a robe and carrying a stick for a weapon, if you can do that job then you're still a tank.

Glurin

LordSemaj wrote: »

Fake healers are worse.

True, but they're not so bad if you have some kind of self sustain.

Unless nobody else has any self sustain because then the guy who queued as a healer but doesn't heal dies and you, who queued as DPS but have some heals becomes the defacto healer trying to keep the tank who is not a tank alive while the other DPS who isn't anything runs around light attacking the boss with his bow.

Woefulmonkey

First let me say I agree with this sentiment of this post... BUT

Lets try to think about How this can be fixed instead of just screaming that we don't like it.

First what is the problem... that is pretty clear, players can 'say' they are any role when they queue and Healers/Tanks have shorter queue times on average.... so 'sneaky' players will queue Tanks or Healers to cut down their queue times.

Now... my first though is how do you cut down queue times so there is less incentive to be 'sneaky'....

However, this is a 'class/role' based game (Sort of since having a couple melt your face DPS can make all other classes irrelevant), which means that inevitably some roles will be less popular to play... making them more scares and lowering their queue times...

So, with out basically removing 'roles' entirely or somehow getting all players to equally choose all roles you are not going to 'fix' that....

Alright... then lets look at the 'sneaky lying' issue.... or at least the 'clueless noob player' issue who does not realize they are 'not' they class they say they are.

What makes a 'Tank' or a 'Healer' as opposed to a 'DPS'.

Is it their 'class'?....

'Nope' some classes are more suited for being a Healer or Take but almost all classes can perform these functions to at least an adequate degree... Which is nice... but make determining what role a person 'is' more difficult. (At least in the game code)


It is their 'Equipment'?....

Well for a 'Tank' that is kind of true... Ideally they are 'sword and shield' users with equipment and setting to maximize health and durability.... and they have a at least 1 'Taunt' ability... since their are literally only 2 taunt abilities in the game. However, you 'can' be 'Tank' without a sword and shield since there is a 'taunt' ability the does not require the 'Sword and Shield' line.

Then, what about a 'Healer'.... every class has some kind of 'healing' capabilities and their are tones of items and skill lines that add healing capabilities.... I have seen 'Knightblade' healers that do an adequate job under the right circumstances.

So... the answer here is 'no' equipment does not define the 'Role' either but it does help define it.

OK... then how the F can ESO ensure a 'Tank IS a Tank' in code?

Well, they can't be absolutely certain, but they can place 'requirements' that help ensure roles are what they claim and help guide players who are confused.

Make some kind of 'Requirements' for selecting a Role
a. ) To be a 'Tank' you must have unlocked at least 1 'Taunt' ability.
b. ) To be a 'Tank' you must have at least N health.
c. ) To be a 'Tank' you must have at least N armor.

Now that would 'help' but it is not going to stop the 'sneaky' players... since they will still be able to game the system just by unlocking an ability and wearing appropriate equipment when they queue then changing to their 'real' equipment once they load in.

Now to deal with that ESO could add logic that will auto 'kick' a player if they change their load out in a way that makes them no longer 'fit' their roles.

That would help further... but truly sneaky players will still find a way to game the system I am 100% certain of that... although it should be much less.

Also, you should realize it will not stop you from queuing with 'under leveled' character in 'high level' dungeons. That is till going to happen and you may still end up with a tank who is somehow dying way more than all the other players.

FYI, I play a Tank but seldom initiate fights...

Why?...

Because most people are not on mic and don't use text chat on consoles so it is really hard to tell when people are actually ready... and yes, if no one is initiating I use 'Ready Check'... but many times someone fails to respond.

That does not mean I am not a Tank.

HorizonPK

I dunno, I fake queue as a tank and almost every time im pulling more than 50% group DPS, I find it funny actually, I do massive pulls and laugh when people start dying, meanwhile im there abusing stam sorc and pretty much soloing the dungeon



Flawless Conq and 4 toons BTW.

DoctorESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

if it's a normal dungeon you have no reason to complain. unless everyone is on literally their first lvl 10. I fake tanked my way to lvl 50 on multiple characters. The only issue was on my ranger I couldnt really taunt, but even if we lost a player, the fights always ended in success.

I absolutely can complain in a normal dungeon when a fake tank leaves my healer with boos aggro on top of having to heal the group, buff the group, and dps the boss. My healer can tank on top of all that but shouldn't have to. And That's not accounting for whether a player is really squishy or a genuinely new player who needs a little more babysitting from the healer.

The run will be successful, sure, but the fake tank makes a lot more work for me. Which is the whole point, the fake tank gets a quick, easy run for them by throwing the work of tanking onto other people.

Dammit, Jim! I'm a healer, not a tank!

There's no "work" in tanking a normal non-dlc boss. Literally all you have to do as the person with aggro is stand still. Players will always be mediocre until they learn that they don't have to fear enemies in PvE. I regularly do vAA as healer, and I taunt the final boss every time so the group doesn't end up chain lightning'd to death. Usually I also end up pulling aggro on an axe or two when my Mending procs on them while they're only soft-taunted.

My first instinct is not to run away from them. A good player doesn't panic, and doesn't flee, they just do as they're supposed to and lead it back to the tank for them to taunt again, or in this case, pull the boss calmly back into the AoE. Once they learn that mobs are not something to panic over, they can actually start improving themselves as players.

I don't think you get my point.

You keep describing how people should deal with having a fake tank in group. You get aggro, you stand still, accept that normal bosses are nothing to be afraid of, and burn the boss. Which, yeah, I agree, thats the most efficient way to handle a fake tank situation.

My point is why should I have to? Why should my healer or my DD have to tank when that's NOT MY JOB? Why should the take tank expect other people to tank for them because they can't be bothered to do their job?

Because you are the grown-up in the group and it's the right thing to do.

That's why you do it despite not wanting to.

Jhalin

HorizonPK wrote: »

I dunno, I fake queue as a tank and almost every time im pulling more than 50% group DPS, I find it funny actually, I do massive pulls and laugh when people start dying, meanwhile im there abusing stam sorc and pretty much soloing the dungeon



Flawless Conq and 4 toons BTW.

For real. Every time I queue tank on my stamblade I end up doing most of the damage, and that's with a taunt and Shades (for maim) taking up a skill slot. Hell, I've had to solo the Engine Guardian on it because no one would listen when I tried to explain that they should just stop freaking out and stack on the healer when everything turns green. Eventually I gave up on rez'ing them and just slotted Bone Shield and Veil of Blades so I could outlast poison phase with Vigor.

Imagine if a full on tank had been there instead, they never would have cleared the final boss, not even mentioning the ones before it.

ZeroXFF

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Why isn't the other player viewed as toxic for purposefully selecting an activity expecting a carry? This attitude you have here is strange to me. I am the one who's most valuable resource, time, Is being robbed. Being annoyed at that does not make mean "toxicity".

Because they aren't necessarily expecting a carry. They might think their DPS is better than it actually is, or they might be a noob who just doesn't know any better. When you queue for a dungeon there are only three options to choose for your role, and if a person knows they aren't a tank or healer, then they have to select DPS by default or else just not do the dungeon. That's why I'd never call them a "fake" DPS, just a "bad" DPS.

I can see this issue only getting worse with the new skill adviser, because that program is now basically encouraging noobs to queue for 4-man dungeons at ridiculously low levels. I did a PUG a few days ago (an easy dungeon on normal) where I was the only 720 there, and everyone else was ... I'm not kidding ... under level 40. Not CP40. Just 40. LOL. That's what I get for PUGging. I finished the dungeon with them, but it was painful.

When I was leveling my DK tank, I got into DC2 on last boss when I was around lvl40-49 (don't remember exactly, could have been 42 or 45). The group consisted of people with CP100-300, and they obviously wiped there for a while, because when I got in, one of them pointed out my level and implied that we're screwed. What ended up happening, was me carrying them, because they lived for 10-20 seconds at most after I ressed them.

Apparent lvl40 players could very well be CP720+ on an alt, capable of doing things that anyone under CP300 could only dream of, especially with the buff that low lvl chars get in dungeons. So the level of the person you're matched with in a normal dungeon means nothing.

Aurielle

HorizonPK wrote: »

I dunno, I fake queue as a tank and almost every time im pulling more than 50% group DPS, I find it funny actually, I do massive pulls and laugh when people start dying, meanwhile im there abusing stam sorc and pretty much soloing the dungeon

Flawless Conq and 4 toons BTW.

Your name looks really familiar... You weren't, by any chance, the tank who barged on ahead in Scalecaller Peak yesterday and wouldn't allow me to explain the mechanics to the two DPS who'd never set foot in the dungeon before?

I don't care when people speed run through old dungeons, but it's kind of inconsiderate to do that on a new dungeon that people are trying to learn. Not saying it WAS you, necessarily, but still.

zsban

Aurielle wrote: »

I don't care when people speed run through old dungeons, but it's kind of inconsiderate to do that on a new dungeon that people are trying to learn. Not saying it WAS you, necessarily, but still.

I have to agree - it ruins the game for me when people already breeze through the new dungeons and kick people who are not yet experts... And these people are usually the fake tanks/healers.

I got to the point where I don't even try to learn the new dungeons because there's just no opportunity. Maybe the first 1-2 days was available, but by now everybody acts like everyone should be flawless in HM no-death speed runs in these new dungeons. But then, what's the point buying the DLC at all...

DoonerSeraph

I was thinking of making a LFG addon with the ability to choose formations for your team. For example you could choose if you want to accept formations, like having 4 slots to configure as healer, tank, dps, dps with taunt, etc. And matching you up with people that chose a compatible formation and activity (specific dungeon, pledges, randoms, maybe trials), filtering by certain flags (vet, vet hm, rushing for farming gear)... Problem is, it would have to run a external client like TTC and control variables by reloading the Ui. Ugh

Aurielle

zsban wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

I don't care when people speed run through old dungeons, but it's kind of inconsiderate to do that on a new dungeon that people are trying to learn. Not saying it WAS you, necessarily, but still.

I have to agree - it ruins the game for me when people already breeze through the new dungeons and kick people who are not yet experts... And these people are usually the fake tanks/healers.

I got to the point where I don't even try to learn the new dungeons because there's just no opportunity. Maybe the first 1-2 days was available, but by now everybody acts like everyone should be flawless in HM no-death speed runs in these new dungeons. But then, what's the point buying the DLC at all...

Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, it's common courtesy for AT LEAST two weeks after a new dungeon is released to ask if anyone hasn't done it before, and to explain any pertinent mechanics. Sure, some people can ignore the mechanics and blast through without dying, but it's not much fun for people who are in there for the first time.

cbaudersub17_ESO

As a true tanker, I think I finally hit my limit. PUG'ing use to be a source of fun and meeting up with new players, but a general dumb-tarded play-style even plagues vet dungeons now. If you don't want to play as a group and to your role, don't use groupfinder.

If you want to run in and agro everything, including the boss; well, I guess you want to tank. I am more than happy to let you take that agro. But you lost the right to complain about me not taunting.

The sad truth that these 'speedy-run' people end up taking longer because more time is spent setting up an efficient kill zone. Everything gets spread out and who knows what buffs/debuffs are properly applying.

Another sad truth is that most of the players that play this way are not very good anyway. Less than 20K dps is all to common and the die a ton (bonus points for more time spent rezzing).

Maybe the real tanks might start queing again if some of this nonsense stops.

josiahva

Woefulmonkey wrote: »

First let me say I agree with this sentiment of this post... BUT

Lets try to think about How this can be fixed instead of just screaming that we don't like it.

First what is the problem... that is pretty clear, players can 'say' they are any role when they queue and Healers/Tanks have shorter queue times on average.... so 'sneaky' players will queue Tanks or Healers to cut down their queue times.

Now... my first though is how do you cut down queue times so there is less incentive to be 'sneaky'....

However, this is a 'class/role' based game (Sort of since having a couple melt your face DPS can make all other classes irrelevant), which means that inevitably some roles will be less popular to play... making them more scares and lowering their queue times...

So, with out basically removing 'roles' entirely or somehow getting all players to equally choose all roles you are not going to 'fix' that....

Alright... then lets look at the 'sneaky lying' issue.... or at least the 'clueless noob player' issue who does not realize they are 'not' they class they say they are.

What makes a 'Tank' or a 'Healer' as opposed to a 'DPS'.

Is it their 'class'?....

'Nope' some classes are more suited for being a Healer or Take but almost all classes can perform these functions to at least an adequate degree... Which is nice... but make determining what role a person 'is' more difficult. (At least in the game code)


It is their 'Equipment'?....

Well for a 'Tank' that is kind of true... Ideally they are 'sword and shield' users with equipment and setting to maximize health and durability.... and they have a at least 1 'Taunt' ability... since their are literally only 2 taunt abilities in the game. However, you 'can' be 'Tank' without a sword and shield since there is a 'taunt' ability the does not require the 'Sword and Shield' line.

Then, what about a 'Healer'.... every class has some kind of 'healing' capabilities and their are tones of items and skill lines that add healing capabilities.... I have seen 'Knightblade' healers that do an adequate job under the right circumstances.

So... the answer here is 'no' equipment does not define the 'Role' either but it does help define it.

OK... then how the F can ESO ensure a 'Tank IS a Tank' in code?

Well, they can't be absolutely certain, but they can place 'requirements' that help ensure roles are what they claim and help guide players who are confused.

Make some kind of 'Requirements' for selecting a Role
a. ) To be a 'Tank' you must have unlocked at least 1 'Taunt' ability.
b. ) To be a 'Tank' you must have at least N health.
c. ) To be a 'Tank' you must have at least N armor.

Now that would 'help' but it is not going to stop the 'sneaky' players... since they will still be able to game the system just by unlocking an ability and wearing appropriate equipment when they queue then changing to their 'real' equipment once they load in.

Now to deal with that ESO could add logic that will auto 'kick' a player if they change their load out in a way that makes them no longer 'fit' their roles.

That would help further... but truly sneaky players will still find a way to game the system I am 100% certain of that... although it should be much less.

Also, you should realize it will not stop you from queuing with 'under leveled' character in 'high level' dungeons. That is till going to happen and you may still end up with a tank who is somehow dying way more than all the other players.

FYI, I play a Tank but seldom initiate fights...

Why?...

Because most people are not on mic and don't use text chat on consoles so it is really hard to tell when people are actually ready... and yes, if no one is initiating I use 'Ready Check'... but many times someone fails to respond.

That does not mean I am not a Tank.

Terrible idea that punishes tanks like mine to fit your preconceptions. My pure tank is a classical tank...maxed resists, heavy armor, 50k health, etc....HOWEVER, depending on the dungeon and the boss(Drodda in Direfrost as an example) I will often swap to DPS gear to pull somewhere between 15-20k DPS to help out. She cant be taunted anyway, so you think I should be kicked for helping that fight?

X health or X armor is also irrelevant...what if you are a shield stacking light armor wearing sorc tank?(not that this is the best way to go since fear becomes deadly if you aren't very careful). There are a variety of ways to tank, I will NEVER support any changes that shoehorn people even further into a box than they already are.

Playing a classic perma-block tank is BORING. NONE of my tanks do that aside from a very limited number of fights, if I was shoehorned into what other people think my tank should be, I would stop tanking entirely. As long as I do my job, the way I do it shouldn't matter.

You say something needs to be done? I disagree, if you want to make sure you get a tank that fits whatever preconceptions you have...INVITE ONE TO THE GROUP BEFORE USING THE GROUP FINDER! Problem solved.

Juju_beans

It's a player problem here, not a zos problem.

And the players need to take action if you want it to stop.

You know after the first boss (sometimes even before) whether or not you have fake healers/tanks.
The solution is to kick them.

DoctorESO

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

As a true tanker, I think I finally hit my limit. PUG'ing use to be a source of fun and meeting up with new players, but a general dumb-tarded play-style even plagues vet dungeons now. If you don't want to play as a group and to your role, don't use groupfinder.

If you want to run in and agro everything, including the boss; well, I guess you want to tank. I am more than happy to let you take that agro. But you lost the right to complain about me not taunting.

The sad truth that these 'speedy-run' people end up taking longer because more time is spent setting up an efficient kill zone. Everything gets spread out and who knows what buffs/debuffs are properly applying.

Another sad truth is that most of the players that play this way are not very good anyway. Less than 20K dps is all to common and the die a ton (bonus points for more time spent rezzing).

Maybe the real tanks might start queing again if some of this nonsense stops.

What about those that blame you for using group finder? "Don't use the group finder if you're not willing to deal with people who queue as fake or subpar roles"?

Majuk

The issue of DPS players queueing as either healers or tanks to get into a dungeon faster is rampant. The worse I've seen was a DPS queuing as a healer with his DPS friend. I was queued DPS with my friend who was a tank (and I mean he intended to taunt and hold the bosses for us, etc.). When our tank wasn't getting healed, he asked the healer to, you know, heal. Healer replies he has no heal skills and it's his birthday so we should just let him be. We couldn't /votekick because he and his friend "lied" on their PUG application on purpose and of course wouldn't get the 3 requisite votes.

So, we just left the group and took our time-out punishment...

Most annoying dungeon experience I've had here...

Anotherone773

ive been in PUGs where:

* i did 10% of the dps
* I did 70% of the dps( full group)
* I did 50% of the dps AND 40% of the heals
* i tanked the bosses
* tank trash in 95% of groups
* we wiped on what people in this thread would consider an "easy" boss.
* wiped on trash( elitist dps pulling far to much trash and not being able to tank it nor could the tank)
* gave up because of constant wipes and low DPS.
* we did over 75% of dungeon without a tank
* we did over 75% of the dungeon without a healer
* we did over 75% of the dungeon without a dps.

I am an average DPS at the moment. This is what you get and what you should expect in a PUG. I dont know why anyone thinks its going to magically be different, its been this way since the first mmo invented group finder.

I quite enjoy pugs. It adds character and challenge to dungeon runs. You dont know who you are going to be playing with or their skills. Every pug is different. Some i dont enjoy, many i do.

But if this isnt your cup of tea, with all this nonsense that PUGs brings, you are in luck! There is a solution to your problem. All you have to do is make some friends to run dungeons with. Then you can get your desired cup of tea. The solution to your PUG issue is there, you are just choosing to ignore it.

cbaudersub17_ESO

DoctorESO wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

As a true tanker, I think I finally hit my limit. PUG'ing use to be a source of fun and meeting up with new players, but a general dumb-tarded play-style even plagues vet dungeons now. If you don't want to play as a group and to your role, don't use groupfinder.

If you want to run in and agro everything, including the boss; well, I guess you want to tank. I am more than happy to let you take that agro. But you lost the right to complain about me not taunting.

The sad truth that these 'speedy-run' people end up taking longer because more time is spent setting up an efficient kill zone. Everything gets spread out and who knows what buffs/debuffs are properly applying.

Another sad truth is that most of the players that play this way are not very good anyway. Less than 20K dps is all to common and the die a ton (bonus points for more time spent rezzing).

Maybe the real tanks might start queing again if some of this nonsense stops.

What about those that blame you for using group finder? "Don't use the group finder if you're not willing to deal with people who queue as fake or subpar roles"?

Okay. So ZOS need to add a jerk-off toggle in addition to tank, dps, healer. Problem solved.

Fake is entirely different than subpar. I have no issue showing people the ropes. And being guilty of using a feature the way is was intended. Weak. Just, weak.

DoctorESO

Majuk wrote: »

When our tank wasn't getting healed, he asked the healer to, you know, heal. Healer replies he has no heal skills and it's his birthday so we should just let him be.

Oh, if only life worked that way.

Grimm13

When an account is on your ignore list are they still queued with you in group finder?

DoctorESO

Grimm13 wrote: »

When an account is on your ignore list are they still queued with you in group finder?

Yes. Some people confirmed this.

Androconium

Jeremy wrote: »

So in my experience these "fake tanks" are not super players capable of dominating a dungeon on their own. They are more often than not mediocre DPS classes who simply lie to get into a dungeon faster.

This is really boiling down to your selfish expectations versus the 'fake-player' selfish expectations. You're expecting to play the role that you nominated for (legitimately selfish); and the fake player is selfishly expecting to get an XP hit without waiting.

However disruptive or unfair this is, the rest of us are tired of hearing about it.

Build a bridge and get over it.

Waffennacht

I can tell a lot of players haven't done a lot of end game content as a tank

"You don't need X"
Yeah, you do because X mechanic deals Y damage and your tank has to survive
"You don't need Y"
Yes you do, you have to plug that hole and tank that add, you must have a range taunt for this
"You can just do B"
No you can't healer needs to be in this location for this mechanic

In a lot of normal content, sure you're right, go for it. But for trials, HM, and some vet dlcs somethings are just necessary