Something needs to be done about this "fake tank" crap

LeagueTroll

Have a faster que for dd who are stormproof then, problems solved. I am happy to go on my tank if i know at least both dd can clear vma.

LeagueTroll

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Right after they do something about the fake DPS I keep seem to be getting as group-mates via the activity finder...

Lol yeah, doing 13k on my lowbie toon and that’s over 60% group dps. Got kicked for telling nub to step it up. Trash tier dd every day.

Jhalin

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

if it's a normal dungeon you have no reason to complain. unless everyone is on literally their first lvl 10. I fake tanked my way to lvl 50 on multiple characters. The only issue was on my ranger I couldnt really taunt, but even if we lost a player, the fights always ended in success.

I absolutely can complain in a normal dungeon when a fake tank leaves my healer with boos aggro on top of having to heal the group, buff the group, and dps the boss. My healer can tank on top of all that but shouldn't have to. And That's not accounting for whether a player is really squishy or a genuinely new player who needs a little more babysitting from the healer.

The run will be successful, sure, but the fake tank makes a lot more work for me. Which is the whole point, the fake tank gets a quick, easy run for them by throwing the work of tanking onto other people.

Dammit, Jim! I'm a healer, not a tank!

There's no "work" in tanking a normal non-dlc boss. Literally all you have to do as the person with aggro is stand still. Players will always be mediocre until they learn that they don't have to fear enemies in PvE. I regularly do vAA as healer, and I taunt the final boss every time so the group doesn't end up chain lightning'd to death. Usually I also end up pulling aggro on an axe or two when my Mending procs on them while they're only soft-taunted.

My first instinct is not to run away from them. A good player doesn't panic, and doesn't flee, they just do as they're supposed to and lead it back to the tank for them to taunt again, or in this case, pull the boss calmly back into the AoE. Once they learn that mobs are not something to panic over, they can actually start improving themselves as players.

I don't think you get my point.

You keep describing how people should deal with having a fake tank in group. You get aggro, you stand still, accept that normal bosses are nothing to be afraid of, and burn the boss. Which, yeah, I agree, thats the most efficient way to handle a fake tank situation.

My point is why should I have to? Why should my healer or my DD have to tank when that's NOT MY JOB? Why should the take tank expect other people to tank for them because they can't be bothered to do their job?

You don't "have to" do anything but stand there and occasionally block a heavy attack. It is legitimately the easiest possible thing to do in a normal dungeon.

Or do you expect a tank to hold aggro on every small mob too? After all, they do a little bit of damage, some even do attacks that call for a block or bash. The horror of asking someone to look after themselves in a pug.

The fake tank comes in for a fast run, probably just looking for the daily exp, which is unobtainable without queuing for a full group. Most could probably solo the thing, but they're here because they aren't given a choice to run it solo for the exp. I'd say 7 times out of 10 they'd much rather not be in your group at all, they just have to be.

Normal runs always go so much faster without a tank when everyone in the group has at least moderate skill, and you aren't doing anything worth mentioning by having boss aggro as long as you're in normal.

VaranisArano

Jhalin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

if it's a normal dungeon you have no reason to complain. unless everyone is on literally their first lvl 10. I fake tanked my way to lvl 50 on multiple characters. The only issue was on my ranger I couldnt really taunt, but even if we lost a player, the fights always ended in success.

I absolutely can complain in a normal dungeon when a fake tank leaves my healer with boos aggro on top of having to heal the group, buff the group, and dps the boss. My healer can tank on top of all that but shouldn't have to. And That's not accounting for whether a player is really squishy or a genuinely new player who needs a little more babysitting from the healer.

The run will be successful, sure, but the fake tank makes a lot more work for me. Which is the whole point, the fake tank gets a quick, easy run for them by throwing the work of tanking onto other people.

Dammit, Jim! I'm a healer, not a tank!

There's no "work" in tanking a normal non-dlc boss. Literally all you have to do as the person with aggro is stand still. Players will always be mediocre until they learn that they don't have to fear enemies in PvE. I regularly do vAA as healer, and I taunt the final boss every time so the group doesn't end up chain lightning'd to death. Usually I also end up pulling aggro on an axe or two when my Mending procs on them while they're only soft-taunted.

My first instinct is not to run away from them. A good player doesn't panic, and doesn't flee, they just do as they're supposed to and lead it back to the tank for them to taunt again, or in this case, pull the boss calmly back into the AoE. Once they learn that mobs are not something to panic over, they can actually start improving themselves as players.

I don't think you get my point.

You keep describing how people should deal with having a fake tank in group. You get aggro, you stand still, accept that normal bosses are nothing to be afraid of, and burn the boss. Which, yeah, I agree, thats the most efficient way to handle a fake tank situation.

My point is why should I have to? Why should my healer or my DD have to tank when that's NOT MY JOB? Why should the take tank expect other people to tank for them because they can't be bothered to do their job?

You don't "have to" do anything but stand there and occasionally block a heavy attack. It is legitimately the easiest possible thing to do in a normal dungeon.

Or do you expect a tank to hold aggro on every small mob too? After all, they do a little bit of damage, some even do attacks that call for a block or bash. The horror of asking someone to look after themselves in a pug.

The fake tank comes in for a fast run, probably just looking for the daily exp, which is unobtainable without queuing for a full group. Most could probably solo the thing, but they're here because they aren't given a choice to run it solo for the exp. I'd say 7 times out of 10 they'd much rather not be in your group at all, they just have to be.

Normal runs always go so much faster without a tank when everyone in the group has at least moderate skill, and you aren't doing anything worth mentioning by having boss aggro as long as you're in normal.

Buddy, I main a tank. I expect a tank to hold aggro on the boss so the boss isn't in my healer's face the entire fight. Is that unreasonable? That's, like, the easiest thing a tank can do and still be an actual tank.

GreenhaloX

Waffennacht wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Right after they do something about the fake DPS I keep seem to be getting as group-mates via the activity finder...

They're not fake, just bad

I agree though, good tanks are hard to come by, and I hate fake tanks.

And tanks are an absolute must for Scalecaller

On the contrarily, perhaps, they are just less-than-capable dd (or dpsers.) Actually, I don't mind it at all if all 4 running a dungeon are all dd/dpsers for vet, or normal, whatever. For toons in the 300 and higher CP bracket, you don't really need a tank and can get away without a healer as well; granted all have self-sufficient healing and damage mitigation. If running with guildmates, that what we do many times. However, yeah, if those being or with others that are much lower levels, a tank that can actually tank would surely need to be.

I, however, when queue for a dungeon, normal or vet, I do bring my real tank in; but I can see that if no tank is queuing in, then the longer the queue becomes to fill the proper slots. Hopefully, those dd/dpser queuing in as a tank (likely to group faster) will fall into a group where the others are sufficient dd capability. If not, then, yeah, you're just blue-falconing the others.

Sinolai

there is a thing called "vote kick".

Merlin13KAGL

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Right after they do something about the fake DPS I keep seem to be getting as group-mates via the activity finder...

They're not fake, just bad

I agree though, good tanks are hard to come by, and I hate fake tanks.

And tanks are an absolute must for Scalecaller

So you're saying they're failing to adequately pefrom the role they queued for?

Sounds alot like the tanks OP is posting about. I see no difference.

So you are saying in your world you see no difference in someone trying to do something and coming up short, and someone not trying at all?

Ok I guess.

I think he's saying he sees a difference between someone being new (learning) and someone being utterly incapable (fake role).

reiverx

The problem is that most people want to do dps by a wide margin. Dungeons should have been six players, with four dps, a healer and a tank.

I'm sure the same problem would still be there. Just a bit less.

Qbiken

Sometimes I wonder where these people are who complain and feel entitled to get a "real" tank, heal or DPS. Done so many random normal and vet runs since I started playing and I´ve never encounterd these players.

VaranisArano

Qbiken wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder where these people are who complain and feel entitled to get a "real" tank, heal or DPS. Done so many random normal and vet runs since I started playing and I´ve never encounterd these players.

Out of curiosity, have you never encountered these players because you've always had people who at least attempted the basics of their role or was it because people didn't care if their tank didn't tank, healer didn't heal, etc.?

Defilted

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Right after they do something about the fake DPS I keep seem to be getting as group-mates via the activity finder...

They're not fake, just bad

I agree though, good tanks are hard to come by, and I hate fake tanks.

And tanks are an absolute must for Scalecaller

So you're saying they're failing to adequately pefrom the role they queued for?

Sounds alot like the tanks OP is posting about. I see no difference.

I think there is a difference in failing to fulfil your role and not even trying. Fake Healer or Tank is someone who queues and never even attempts to fulfill the role.

Defilted

Here is an idea.

Give a player the ability to add players to a list. These are not "friends" just players they feel are good players. When you queue for a dungeon the system puts you with these people first if possible. This could cut down on getting put with people who are not even trying.

Maulkin

It’s not about tanks specifically. It’s about bad players in general, or players that don’t know what they’re doing.

I’ll queue as a tank on my StamDk with appropriate equipment and play properly. But if I get put into a vet dungeon with two <200 CP DDs that are doing a combined 20k DPS on the first boss, you better believe I’m gonna slap on Acuity and VO, go DPS and I dgaf.

Best case scenario, we do it faster albeit with a few more deaths. Worst case scenario I get kicked so I don’t receive a penalty and can find a better group that’ll do it quicker. Win-win

BlanketFort

Jhalin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

if it's a normal dungeon you have no reason to complain. unless everyone is on literally their first lvl 10. I fake tanked my way to lvl 50 on multiple characters. The only issue was on my ranger I couldnt really taunt, but even if we lost a player, the fights always ended in success.

I absolutely can complain in a normal dungeon when a fake tank leaves my healer with boos aggro on top of having to heal the group, buff the group, and dps the boss. My healer can tank on top of all that but shouldn't have to. And That's not accounting for whether a player is really squishy or a genuinely new player who needs a little more babysitting from the healer.

The run will be successful, sure, but the fake tank makes a lot more work for me. Which is the whole point, the fake tank gets a quick, easy run for them by throwing the work of tanking onto other people.

Dammit, Jim! I'm a healer, not a tank!

There's no "work" in tanking a normal non-dlc boss. Literally all you have to do as the person with aggro is stand still. Players will always be mediocre until they learn that they don't have to fear enemies in PvE. I regularly do vAA as healer, and I taunt the final boss every time so the group doesn't end up chain lightning'd to death. Usually I also end up pulling aggro on an axe or two when my Mending procs on them while they're only soft-taunted.

My first instinct is not to run away from them. A good player doesn't panic, and doesn't flee, they just do as they're supposed to and lead it back to the tank for them to taunt again, or in this case, pull the boss calmly back into the AoE. Once they learn that mobs are not something to panic over, they can actually start improving themselves as players.

I don't think you get my point.

You keep describing how people should deal with having a fake tank in group. You get aggro, you stand still, accept that normal bosses are nothing to be afraid of, and burn the boss. Which, yeah, I agree, thats the most efficient way to handle a fake tank situation.

My point is why should I have to? Why should my healer or my DD have to tank when that's NOT MY JOB? Why should the take tank expect other people to tank for them because they can't be bothered to do their job?

You don't "have to" do anything but stand there and occasionally block a heavy attack. It is legitimately the easiest possible thing to do in a normal dungeon.

Or do you expect a tank to hold aggro on every small mob too? After all, they do a little bit of damage, some even do attacks that call for a block or bash. The horror of asking someone to look after themselves in a pug.

The fake tank comes in for a fast run, probably just looking for the daily exp, which is unobtainable without queuing for a full group. Most could probably solo the thing, but they're here because they aren't given a choice to run it solo for the exp. I'd say 7 times out of 10 they'd much rather not be in your group at all, they just have to be.

Normal runs always go so much faster without a tank when everyone in the group has at least moderate skill, and you aren't doing anything worth mentioning by having boss aggro as long as you're in normal.

Yes, normal and vet dungeons can be cleared without a tank, but that isn’t the argument. The argument isn’t even if it would be faster that way. Non-traditional group compositions should only exist in pre-made groups, not in the group finder.

When I PuG, whether solo or with a friend or two, I expect that the person who queued as a tank is an actual tank that intends to do a tank‘s job, same for heals. I don’t mind having a tank or healer that is doing a bad job, perhaps they are new to the role - who knows-, but they are at least TRYING.

I find it outrageously disrescpetful to disregard and be inconsiderate to the potential random group of players that they may get by skipping the queue with a role they have no intention to fulfill. You never know what skill level of players you’ll get, and when it goes sideways, it’s nothing but chaos and stress for everyone involved. It’s easy to rectify a bad tank/healer/DD if they are looking for advice, but there‘s nothing to be done about a selfish, inconsiderate person who’d much rather put random people through hell than wait their time through GF because they only had their objective in mind, and everyone else is just cannon fodder, becaue they can solo it anyway.

It’s bad attitude and poor team etiquette and it is getting worse. The problem is people, it always is.

Sru

LaMagrank wrote: »

The problem is the difficulty or lack thereof. A motivated mediocre player can solo normal dungeons, a good player can solo vet dungeons. Nobody takes the need for a tank seriously so this ish goes on. I've played mmo's where you absolutely needed a tank to complete a dungeon and this was never an issue because people knew the dungeon wasn't getting done if they pulled this crap.

Sadly, this ^^

When you can run hard mode WGT or all vet non-DLCs without healer then the older content really is too poor for today's groups.

As I used to main a healer, it makes me sad but it is today's reality. Tanks, similar picture for experienced people though fights do go a lot better with one; Tank and 3DDs can pretty much do most vet mode places especially if 2 of the DDs are pet sorcs.

I would love to see some retro-fitting of harder content to older dungeon mechanics - would give a lift to everyone and revitalise healers/tanks.

I love the 2 new dungeons in vet mode - frustrating at times, infuriating at others but it is mostly not an RNG fest but mechanics that punish sloppy play or mistakes. Still not fully worked out 2nd Fangs Lair boss but give it time ...

Jeremy

Soris wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

@Jeremy What class are you playing? If playing templar or warden you can pretty much tank and heal at the same time. Queue for tank and ask your healer to do damage. Or do LFM3DD in zone chat. The latter is almost instant at forming groups.

Soris wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

@Jeremy What class are you playing? If playing templar or warden you can pretty much tank and heal at the same time. Queue for tank and ask your healer to do damage. Or do LFM3DD in zone chat. The latter is almost instant at forming groups.

Sometimes I need a break from tanking or simply want to play on my healer. I'm aware I can queue up as a tank - and you're right when you say Templars are capable of tanking and healing a lot of dungeons. But I shouldn't have to always end up getting on my my tank because DPS classes are lying about their role and taking that spot away from actual tanks because they don't want to wait in line like the rest of us.

It's a real problem and something needs to be done about it because I am encountering more "fake tanks" lately than actual real ones.

Jeremy

Sru wrote: »

LaMagrank wrote: »

The problem is the difficulty or lack thereof. A motivated mediocre player can solo normal dungeons, a good player can solo vet dungeons. Nobody takes the need for a tank seriously so this ish goes on. I've played mmo's where you absolutely needed a tank to complete a dungeon and this was never an issue because people knew the dungeon wasn't getting done if they pulled this crap.

Sadly, this ^^

When you can run hard mode WGT or all vet non-DLCs without healer then the older content really is too poor for today's groups.

As I used to main a healer, it makes me sad but it is today's reality. Tanks, similar picture for experienced people though fights do go a lot better with one; Tank and 3DDs can pretty much do most vet mode places especially if 2 of the DDs are pet sorcs.

I would love to see some retro-fitting of harder content to older dungeon mechanics - would give a lift to everyone and revitalise healers/tanks.

I love the 2 new dungeons in vet mode - frustrating at times, infuriating at others but it is mostly not an RNG fest but mechanics that punish sloppy play or mistakes. Still not fully worked out 2nd Fangs Lair boss but give it time ...

I'm not buying his argument.

Anyone who has spent significant time pugging dungeons on this game will tell you that the content is not too poor for today's groups. Many newer players struggle in these dungeons so the need for an actual healer or an actual tank are real.

And if these "fake tanks" are in reality just experienced and amazing players who can solo veteran dungeons no problem and therefore have no real need for specific combat roles why then do these "fake tanks" tend to get their butts handed to them by bosses or hide behind my healer while he gets the aggro?

So in my experience these "fake tanks" are not super players capable of dominating a dungeon on their own. They are more often than not mediocre DPS classes who simply lie to get into a dungeon faster.

In any case - players like the ones you describe can refrain from queuing up for the older content if they find it so boring and simple and stick to doing dungeons like Veteran Fang Lair as you pointed out. There is no law or rule requiring that they bore themselves in older dungeons while trying to show off their skills by doing them without a tank or a healer. Because I doubt many people are impressed by it. I know I'm not.

dodgehopper_ESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

I can fill any role on the same character but then to play a DPS. I carry Spell power cure, Amberplasm, Fortified brass, Alteration mastery, and Julianos on my person at all times. Just becuase they have 17k healthy and do 30k+ doesn't mean they can't suddenly have 30k health and do 8k DPS by spamming a taunt

Yeah, I've got no problems with people who queue as multiple roles and can actually fill those roles with a little gear/skill swap.

I do have a problem with the people who queue as a tank with zero intentions of taunting or otherwise performing the role of a tank.

Generally speaking I agree with you but there are a few things which solve the problem especially for the non-DLC dungeons. Firstly, decent dps makes it so tanking is superfluous. In fact, there are many dungeons where tanking is more or less irrelevant and running 4 dps is easier. Darkshade II final boss (Engine Guardian) makes tanking pointless for example. I'm not suggesting this is the case for Ugularg's pledges but for the majority of content (even city of ash) being a tank isn't truly necessary.

I understand though when you're running with a random team. Just realize that there are players who aren't good tanks yet. Please have some patience for them. Secondly, many people get queued as a tank without realizing that they had that setting. This happened to me one time (largely because a friend queued us before I was ready) and without realizing it I was set as tank. We did fine on that run but the point remains that sometimes its an honest mistake. There is a lot of vitriol and anger about this topic but I think people should chill about it. Bad dps is just as big a problem as accidental tanks or *** tanks. In fact, Bad DPS is probably worse because a lot of dungeons simply can't be done if your dps is horrible. Bad dps includes people who decide they want to heavy attack with ice staves or pierce armor. I don't assume these people are trolling on a random queue up though. I generally assume they made a mistake (if they're solid and tanky) or that they're total noobs and don't know what the hell is going on. Either way it isn't worth vomiting rage at them.

dodgehopper_ESO

Defilted wrote: »

Here is an idea.

Give a player the ability to add players to a list. These are not "friends" just players they feel are good players. When you queue for a dungeon the system puts you with these people first if possible. This could cut down on getting put with people who are not even trying.

I want to know why we are limited to 100 friends. After years of playing the game you can easily get to know more than 100 people pretty well.

MerlinPendragon

Kick fake tanks.

Qbiken

VaranisArano wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder where these people are who complain and feel entitled to get a "real" tank, heal or DPS. Done so many random normal and vet runs since I started playing and I´ve never encounterd these players.

Out of curiosity, have you never encountered these players because you've always had people who at least attempted the basics of their role or was it because people didn't care if their tank didn't tank, healer didn't heal, etc.?

Those people I´ve meet in random normals (I never que for random vet) where I´ve solo-qued, never really cared what role people picked when using the dungeonfinder. Only thing that was important was whether we manage to complete the dungeon within a reasonable amount of time or not. Never seen anyone rage because of "fake-roles".

Jeremy

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

I can fill any role on the same character but then to play a DPS. I carry Spell power cure, Amberplasm, Fortified brass, Alteration mastery, and Julianos on my person at all times. Just becuase they have 17k healthy and do 30k+ doesn't mean they can't suddenly have 30k health and do 8k DPS by spamming a taunt

Yeah, I've got no problems with people who queue as multiple roles and can actually fill those roles with a little gear/skill swap.

I do have a problem with the people who queue as a tank with zero intentions of taunting or otherwise performing the role of a tank.

Generally speaking I agree with you but there are a few things which solve the problem especially for the non-DLC dungeons. Firstly, decent dps makes it so tanking is superfluous. In fact, there are many dungeons where tanking is more or less irrelevant and running 4 dps is easier. Darkshade II final boss (Engine Guardian) makes tanking pointless for example. I'm not suggesting this is the case for Ugularg's pledges but for the majority of content (even city of ash) being a tank isn't truly necessary.

I understand though when you're running with a random team. Just realize that there are players who aren't good tanks yet. Please have some patience for them. Secondly, many people get queued as a tank without realizing that they had that setting. This happened to me one time (largely because a friend queued us before I was ready) and without realizing it I was set as tank. We did fine on that run but the point remains that sometimes its an honest mistake. There is a lot of vitriol and anger about this topic but I think people should chill about it. Bad dps is just as big a problem as accidental tanks or *** tanks. In fact, Bad DPS is probably worse because a lot of dungeons simply can't be done if your dps is horrible. Bad dps includes people who decide they want to heavy attack with ice staves or pierce armor. I don't assume these people are trolling on a random queue up though. I generally assume they made a mistake (if they're solid and tanky) or that they're total noobs and don't know what the hell is going on. Either way it isn't worth vomiting rage at them.

No one here is talking about noob tanks or players who accidentally queued up as a tank.

We are talking about players who deliberately game the system by lying - who sign up as either tanks or healers to cut in line of other players because they don't feel like waiting. And these players deserve all the "vomited rage" that they get.

We have allowed this problem to get way out of hand by tolerating it for so long. It's time for the hammer to drop and for something to be done about it.

VaranisArano

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I understand though when you're running with a random team. Just realize that there are players who aren't good tanks yet. Please have some patience for them. Secondly, many people get queued as a tank without realizing that they had that setting. This happened to me one time (largely because a friend queued us before I was ready) and without realizing it I was set as tank. We did fine on that run but the point remains that sometimes its an honest mistake.

I don't know how much clearer I can be, but I'll try.

I've got no problem with new players not knowing how to tank. New players who want to tank but don't know how listen when someone explains "So this skill is a taunt, use it."

I don't have too many issues with experienced players who forget to slot a taunt. They listen when someone says "Hey tank, why aren't you tanking?" and go "Oops, okay I slotted a taunt, sorry I forgot."

I do have a problem with experienced players who's response to being asked to fulfill the role they queued for is to go "Haha, no, its a normal, you don't need a tank anyway," and refuse to slot a taunt.

To which my response is, "No, I don't need a tank, but I'd like for you to do your job so the boss isn't in MY face forcing ME to do YOUR JOB in addition to my own job as healer."

(Also, I main a tank, so I do in fact know the difference between normal boss focusing attacks on players other than the tank and my healer having aggro for the entire fight. Once you have experience tanking, its not hard to see when the tank in your dungeon doesn't have aggro.)

sdtlc

and when you hopp in doin da RealTankThing, there's always a DD running ahead and getting himselft killed ...

Twenty0zTsunami

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

if it's a normal dungeon you have no reason to complain. unless everyone is on literally their first lvl 10. I fake tanked my way to lvl 50 on multiple characters. The only issue was on my ranger I couldnt really taunt, but even if we lost a player, the fights always ended in success.

I absolutely can complain in a normal dungeon when a fake tank leaves my healer with boos aggro on top of having to heal the group, buff the group, and dps the boss. My healer can tank on top of all that but shouldn't have to. And That's not accounting for whether a player is really squishy or a genuinely new player who needs a little more babysitting from the healer.

The run will be successful, sure, but the fake tank makes a lot more work for me. Which is the whole point, the fake tank gets a quick, easy run for them by throwing the work of tanking onto other people.

Dammit, Jim! I'm a healer, not a tank!

There's no "work" in tanking a normal non-dlc boss. Literally all you have to do as the person with aggro is stand still. Players will always be mediocre until they learn that they don't have to fear enemies in PvE. I regularly do vAA as healer, and I taunt the final boss every time so the group doesn't end up chain lightning'd to death. Usually I also end up pulling aggro on an axe or two when my Mending procs on them while they're only soft-taunted.

My first instinct is not to run away from them. A good player doesn't panic, and doesn't flee, they just do as they're supposed to and lead it back to the tank for them to taunt again, or in this case, pull the boss calmly back into the AoE. Once they learn that mobs are not something to panic over, they can actually start improving themselves as players.

I don't think you get my point.

You keep describing how people should deal with having a fake tank in group. You get aggro, you stand still, accept that normal bosses are nothing to be afraid of, and burn the boss. Which, yeah, I agree, thats the most efficient way to handle a fake tank situation.

My point is why should I have to? Why should my healer or my DD have to tank when that's NOT MY JOB? Why should the take tank expect other people to tank for them because they can't be bothered to do their job?

I dont think you get the "point". There is no "having to deal" because normal dungeons are faceroll. If you're strugglign, the problem probably lies within yourself

VaranisArano

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

if it's a normal dungeon you have no reason to complain. unless everyone is on literally their first lvl 10. I fake tanked my way to lvl 50 on multiple characters. The only issue was on my ranger I couldnt really taunt, but even if we lost a player, the fights always ended in success.

I absolutely can complain in a normal dungeon when a fake tank leaves my healer with boos aggro on top of having to heal the group, buff the group, and dps the boss. My healer can tank on top of all that but shouldn't have to. And That's not accounting for whether a player is really squishy or a genuinely new player who needs a little more babysitting from the healer.

The run will be successful, sure, but the fake tank makes a lot more work for me. Which is the whole point, the fake tank gets a quick, easy run for them by throwing the work of tanking onto other people.

Dammit, Jim! I'm a healer, not a tank!

There's no "work" in tanking a normal non-dlc boss. Literally all you have to do as the person with aggro is stand still. Players will always be mediocre until they learn that they don't have to fear enemies in PvE. I regularly do vAA as healer, and I taunt the final boss every time so the group doesn't end up chain lightning'd to death. Usually I also end up pulling aggro on an axe or two when my Mending procs on them while they're only soft-taunted.

My first instinct is not to run away from them. A good player doesn't panic, and doesn't flee, they just do as they're supposed to and lead it back to the tank for them to taunt again, or in this case, pull the boss calmly back into the AoE. Once they learn that mobs are not something to panic over, they can actually start improving themselves as players.

I don't think you get my point.

You keep describing how people should deal with having a fake tank in group. You get aggro, you stand still, accept that normal bosses are nothing to be afraid of, and burn the boss. Which, yeah, I agree, thats the most efficient way to handle a fake tank situation.

My point is why should I have to? Why should my healer or my DD have to tank when that's NOT MY JOB? Why should the take tank expect other people to tank for them because they can't be bothered to do their job?

I dont think you get the "point". There is no "having to deal" because normal dungeons are faceroll. If you're strugglign, the problem probably lies within yourself

I'm not struggling. My healer can heal, buff, DPS AND tank. I'm just really annoyed that the tank isn't doing their job so it falls to me to pick up the slack on top of my own job.

josiahva

Stinkyremy wrote: »

I am a tank main and often hear gg tank, or great tanking and thought people were just being nice, but after trying to level a healers undaunted and it taking over a week in activity finder, I know that good tanks, let alone real ones are scarce.
I had one tank try to taunt only the big netch in darkshade 2, had no clue about the mechanics.

Kinda funny because for that fight I always swap to DPS gear and DPS instead of tanking simply because pugs need all the DPS help they can get with that fight and its so much easier to burn the ads than try to control them all as a tank.

Twenty0zTsunami

VaranisArano wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

if it's a normal dungeon you have no reason to complain. unless everyone is on literally their first lvl 10. I fake tanked my way to lvl 50 on multiple characters. The only issue was on my ranger I couldnt really taunt, but even if we lost a player, the fights always ended in success.

I absolutely can complain in a normal dungeon when a fake tank leaves my healer with boos aggro on top of having to heal the group, buff the group, and dps the boss. My healer can tank on top of all that but shouldn't have to. And That's not accounting for whether a player is really squishy or a genuinely new player who needs a little more babysitting from the healer.

The run will be successful, sure, but the fake tank makes a lot more work for me. Which is the whole point, the fake tank gets a quick, easy run for them by throwing the work of tanking onto other people.

Dammit, Jim! I'm a healer, not a tank!

There's no "work" in tanking a normal non-dlc boss. Literally all you have to do as the person with aggro is stand still. Players will always be mediocre until they learn that they don't have to fear enemies in PvE. I regularly do vAA as healer, and I taunt the final boss every time so the group doesn't end up chain lightning'd to death. Usually I also end up pulling aggro on an axe or two when my Mending procs on them while they're only soft-taunted.

My first instinct is not to run away from them. A good player doesn't panic, and doesn't flee, they just do as they're supposed to and lead it back to the tank for them to taunt again, or in this case, pull the boss calmly back into the AoE. Once they learn that mobs are not something to panic over, they can actually start improving themselves as players.

I don't think you get my point.

You keep describing how people should deal with having a fake tank in group. You get aggro, you stand still, accept that normal bosses are nothing to be afraid of, and burn the boss. Which, yeah, I agree, thats the most efficient way to handle a fake tank situation.

My point is why should I have to? Why should my healer or my DD have to tank when that's NOT MY JOB? Why should the take tank expect other people to tank for them because they can't be bothered to do their job?

I dont think you get the "point". There is no "having to deal" because normal dungeons are faceroll. If you're strugglign, the problem probably lies within yourself

I'm not struggling. My healer can heal, buff, DPS AND tank. I'm just really annoyed that the tank isn't doing their job so it falls to me to pick up the slack on top of my own job.

it's a game, not a job. go outside.

Darkestnght

People should not complain about a fake tank, healer or low dps if you are in a PUG. You can just leave the group, simple as that and find some like minded people to do the dungeons with you or continue to take your chances on a PUG. That is just my opinion. I still PUG but have several stead fast rules about weather I am going to stay or not.

VaranisArano

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

DPS classes queuing up as tanks to shorten their wait times has gotten out of hand on this game. 5 out of the last 6 dungeon queues I joined had players who were tanks in name-only.

These players frequently don't taunt, have low HP pools and defenses and sometimes don't even bother initiating fights (they just sit there waiting for other group members to attack). One of them had 12k health and was getting killed in one hit by almost everything. It's gotten so bad I'm just about ready to quit queuing up as my healer as I usually just end up having to change into my tank anyway during the run.

I'm not sure what the best solution here would be. Some basic requirements before you can choose a specified role? A new feature added to the report function that specifically allows players to report players who abuse the system by lying about their role? I don't know. But something needs to be done to discourage this.

if it's a normal dungeon you have no reason to complain. unless everyone is on literally their first lvl 10. I fake tanked my way to lvl 50 on multiple characters. The only issue was on my ranger I couldnt really taunt, but even if we lost a player, the fights always ended in success.

I absolutely can complain in a normal dungeon when a fake tank leaves my healer with boos aggro on top of having to heal the group, buff the group, and dps the boss. My healer can tank on top of all that but shouldn't have to. And That's not accounting for whether a player is really squishy or a genuinely new player who needs a little more babysitting from the healer.

The run will be successful, sure, but the fake tank makes a lot more work for me. Which is the whole point, the fake tank gets a quick, easy run for them by throwing the work of tanking onto other people.

Dammit, Jim! I'm a healer, not a tank!

There's no "work" in tanking a normal non-dlc boss. Literally all you have to do as the person with aggro is stand still. Players will always be mediocre until they learn that they don't have to fear enemies in PvE. I regularly do vAA as healer, and I taunt the final boss every time so the group doesn't end up chain lightning'd to death. Usually I also end up pulling aggro on an axe or two when my Mending procs on them while they're only soft-taunted.

My first instinct is not to run away from them. A good player doesn't panic, and doesn't flee, they just do as they're supposed to and lead it back to the tank for them to taunt again, or in this case, pull the boss calmly back into the AoE. Once they learn that mobs are not something to panic over, they can actually start improving themselves as players.

I don't think you get my point.

You keep describing how people should deal with having a fake tank in group. You get aggro, you stand still, accept that normal bosses are nothing to be afraid of, and burn the boss. Which, yeah, I agree, thats the most efficient way to handle a fake tank situation.

My point is why should I have to? Why should my healer or my DD have to tank when that's NOT MY JOB? Why should the take tank expect other people to tank for them because they can't be bothered to do their job?

I dont think you get the "point". There is no "having to deal" because normal dungeons are faceroll. If you're strugglign, the problem probably lies within yourself

I'm not struggling. My healer can heal, buff, DPS AND tank. I'm just really annoyed that the tank isn't doing their job so it falls to me to pick up the slack on top of my own job.

it's a game, not a job. go outside.

LOL!

"Guys, I have to AFK, sorry."

"Why"

"Need to go outside and remember this is just a game, and the tank doesn't actually need to be a tank."

"WTF"

"Be back in a few, just need to stop and smell the roses."