I am fracking sick and tired of fake healers/tanks

Navras

I've played WoW for quite a lot of time, during last years I've pugged raid and dungeons a lot using a site called OpenRaid.

What made it working (and enjoyable) was the possibility of sending feedback and rating on players you were grouping with. Just because of that everyone (or almost everyone at least...) tried to give out their best, in proper role and so on.

A voting\rating system for Grouping Tool would be an absolutely great add for the community and for everyone wants to have a more enjoyable pugging experience.

mocap

Only if "restriction" is not the same as "discrimination". So if you have "Survivor" achievement, then you can queue with randoms in vet dungeon, right? Otherwise not. Kinda not fair.

Twenty0zTsunami

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I don't give a damn if you'd been in queue for two hours because you're a dps, if you sign up as a healer or tank you'd better be able to do the damn job. Zos needs to crack down on this crap.

honestly, I can agree with you as far as veterans go. I have gotten stamsorcs who do nothing but spam the stam heal from the pvp line. That ish is ridiculous.

But frankly, I will fake heal day in and day out on my new characters that are yet to hit 50 and stillr unning normal. Reason being? It doesn't matter. I have 450 CP to disperse at lvl 1 and I'm always in hand-made blue+ quality gear with good enchantments. If I want to dual weild warden tank, what's going to stop me? The groups are almost always successful(unless the healer is an actual n00b), and despite being unable to really taunt, no one dies.

Yamenstein

Silver_Strider wrote: »

It's so sad that the community has become so complacent with ZOS' incompetence with the group finder that they would just rather say things like "Stop complaining" to people rather than continue to hound ZOS to fix their broken grouping system.

It needs to be improved on, fullstop, and anyone that does not agree is wrong.

Does the group finder have problems? Yes. But at the same time people who cry over the fact that the tank that they grouped with doesn't play the same way they want doesn't mean the system is broken. It means that they decided to group with people using a system that let's everyone from the game population access.

If you don't like the healer and tank you get save yourself the trouble and group with guild mates.

Yes, sometimes the tank, the healer and even the dps are useless. Sometimes its because they don't understand how to play, as they are low levels, some of them don't care for any meta and just want to play they want as well, and some others just think that playing a light armoured tank works for them. I have a tank builds I take into vet dungeons that has low health, it works for me. I still kick ass in it but at the same time I know when I need to change over my gear for those extra tough moments.

Some people don't know how to play and the group finder isn't broken because it's excluding those people.

knaveofengland

this can be a problem waiting times , for me at the mo i am playing a templar so i hardly wait ni more than 5 mins , perhaps eso could have , like henchies for hire just hire some npc mercs and then no waiting fake whatever , what say all of you ,

used them most of the time in gw1 worked quite well , not as good as players but at least no waiting .

Glurin

As long as they can do a passable job, I really don't care. You're a DPS that slotted a taunt? Hey, as long as you can keep him on you and not die, that's fine. Queued as healer even though you've only got one heal skill on your bar? If that heal skill is enough to keep us alive, who gives a damn?

But where I draw the line is people that queue as tanks or healers with zero intention or ability to do either job. All you've done is set yourself up for failure and dragged three other people down with you. But I don't think there's much that ZoS can really do about it without completely restructuring the skill system and locking us into set roles for each character, which is the complete opposite of what TES has always been about.

thewaywardone

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

Kicking fake tanks, healers and low cp players so that they get a 15min ban is the only way for them to learn "maybe it is less time consuming queuing as a dps when I am a dps" or "maybe I shouldn't queue for vet dungeons until I am 160" especially the 87 cps who manage to get in bloodroot.

The irony of my latter complaint is that zos stopped the queuing for most dungeons below level 45, even if we are running a 690 alt, but I still see low cp players in all vet dungeons, and even the harder DLC dungeons.

I take issue with the kicking low CP players because as soon as you hit CP 1 the default for random dungeons is Veteran. I cannot tell you how many times I have joined a group and the leader queues us only to NOT realize that they defaulted to veteran level dungeons.

I understand how frustrating it must be to end up in a difficult dungeon with a very low CP player, however, there is a difference between queuing as a DPS when you're a new CP player and getting put, by ZOS mechanics, into a dungeon you cannot handle and specifically queuing as a tank or healer when you clearly are not one.

Please, please, PLEASE do not think that the CP 45 DPS who ended up in VET Bloodrot specifically queued to get there.

Also, there's a lot of conversation about just bad DPS or bad healing or bad tanking. Think about what's been said: Normal dungeons (for the most part) do not require roles. So if you have a newer player who isn't in a guild, but who zooms through content, they can go from 10-50 pretty fast, and if ALL they know are normal dungeons and their utter lack of need for roles, why is ANYONE surprised that when we get to VET level people are still behaving as they did for normals.

As a new CP healer, I tell EVERYONE in every group I'm in: I'm new to this; new to this dungeon, new to this role. Please explain fights or let me know if there's things I need to do. Most of the time, no one says anything in response at all and they steamroll through.

Why would I NOT believe the entire game is like that when I have a CP 720 behaving like that in a normal dungeon.

It's on us a bit, guys. If we want good tanks, good healers and good dps, you need to pause your breakneck run through whatever, and take a moment to teach. We all do.

klowdy1

Demra wrote: »

Not sure about class but for weapon I think all kinds of knuckle brass (if that's what they called).



I would be able to role play Rayne with a vampire ^^

Lol, I think you clicked on the wrong thread. You'll get better responses in the "new class/new weapon" thread.

Twenty0zTsunami

thewaywardone wrote: »

Also, there's a lot of conversation about just bad DPS or bad healing or bad tanking. Think about what's been said: Normal dungeons (for the most part) do not require roles. So if you have a newer player who isn't in a guild, but who zooms through content, they can go from 10-50 pretty fast, and if ALL they know are normal dungeons and their utter lack of need for roles, why is ANYONE surprised that when we get to VET level people are still behaving as they did for normals.

As a new CP healer, I tell EVERYONE in every group I'm in: I'm new to this; new to this dungeon, new to this role. Please explain fights or let me know if there's things I need to do. Most of the time, no one says anything in response at all and they steamroll through.

Why would I NOT believe the entire game is like that when I have a CP 720 behaving like that in a normal dungeon.

It's on us a bit, guys. If we want good tanks, good healers and good dps, you need to pause your breakneck run through whatever, and take a moment to teach. We all do.

Agreed On both highlighted points. . I think the only option is to MAKE NORMALS GREAT AGAIN. And maybe spit on the guys who rush dungeons and throw temper tantrums if you dont skip half the bosses,a nd the run takes mroe than 5 minutes.

Protip: if you have only 15 minutes before you have to go to bed/school/work? Don't queue. A week or so ago I was running a dungeon for a specific piece of set gear. Needless to say I didnt want to skip any bosses. Well half of our group thought they would do otherwise and ended up beating the final encounter before we made it through the 3 that lead up to him. So I wound up gettnig no boss loot..

Seriously fxck you, impatient tryhards.

BlanketFort

Really sad how some people blame the OP for PUGging, in the first place.
This one is on ZoS, for making it even possible for DDs to solo Vet dungeons, it creates a playerbase with a mentality of „I’m here for myself, screw others. Can solo this, anyway“ and teamplay gets thrown out the window.

Outside of DLC, most „macho DDs“ just go about the entire dungeon as if they’re soloing. Make vanilla dungeons harder, again. Make Tanks and Healers relevant!

But yeah, I hate fake roles. I don’t care if it’s Fungal Grotto 1, when you pug, you do the role you queued for. Anything else is just a *** move.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Ive never had much of a problem with fake healers. Although maybe it is a newer issue. I haven’t run many dungeons since the sustain nerf. But most dungeons unless the team sucks as long as someone is even pretend healing it is enough.

Blackleopardex

Navras wrote: »

I've played WoW for quite a lot of time, during last years I've pugged raid and dungeons a lot using a site called OpenRaid.

What made it working (and enjoyable) was the possibility of sending feedback and rating on players you were grouping with. Just because of that everyone (or almost everyone at least...) tried to give out their best, in proper role and so on.

A voting\rating system for Grouping Tool would be an absolutely great add for the community and for everyone wants to have a more enjoyable pugging experience.

I like this idea... but i doubt we will ever see something like this.

zaria

thewaywardone wrote: »

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

Kicking fake tanks, healers and low cp players so that they get a 15min ban is the only way for them to learn "maybe it is less time consuming queuing as a dps when I am a dps" or "maybe I shouldn't queue for vet dungeons until I am 160" especially the 87 cps who manage to get in bloodroot.

The irony of my latter complaint is that zos stopped the queuing for most dungeons below level 45, even if we are running a 690 alt, but I still see low cp players in all vet dungeons, and even the harder DLC dungeons.

I take issue with the kicking low CP players because as soon as you hit CP 1 the default for random dungeons is Veteran. I cannot tell you how many times I have joined a group and the leader queues us only to NOT realize that they defaulted to veteran level dungeons.

I understand how frustrating it must be to end up in a difficult dungeon with a very low CP player, however, there is a difference between queuing as a DPS when you're a new CP player and getting put, by ZOS mechanics, into a dungeon you cannot handle and specifically queuing as a tank or healer when you clearly are not one.

Please, please, PLEASE do not think that the CP 45 DPS who ended up in VET Bloodrot specifically queued to get there.

Also, there's a lot of conversation about just bad DPS or bad healing or bad tanking. Think about what's been said: Normal dungeons (for the most part) do not require roles. So if you have a newer player who isn't in a guild, but who zooms through content, they can go from 10-50 pretty fast, and if ALL they know are normal dungeons and their utter lack of need for roles, why is ANYONE surprised that when we get to VET level people are still behaving as they did for normals.

As a new CP healer, I tell EVERYONE in every group I'm in: I'm new to this; new to this dungeon, new to this role. Please explain fights or let me know if there's things I need to do. Most of the time, no one says anything in response at all and they steamroll through.

Why would I NOT believe the entire game is like that when I have a CP 720 behaving like that in a normal dungeon.

It's on us a bit, guys. If we want good tanks, good healers and good dps, you need to pause your breakneck run through whatever, and take a moment to teach. We all do.

Good point, the level restrictions for normal dungeons who was an excellent quality of life improvement regarding the DLC dungeons probably went a bit to far in not giving any challenging dungeons, chances are you get higher cp players to.
I used random normals to grind xp during the new life festival, +250K xp each run and more fun than grinding, have lots of alts who need lost of dungeon quests to. Quality was variable from templar healer in spc to stamDK I played just as NB and an magblade healer I had no idea how to use outside or resto staff
Reached 690 and realized no more random dungeons

RavenSworn

i was in a group with my buddy of mine, i was tanking and he was dpsing. granted it wasnt a hard dungeon (CoH) but ultimately, the other dps was using a frost staff to 'dps'.

Everytime he goes ahead and tags a group to let me grab it off him, i just did a /wave and moved on. he would frantically spam heals and *** to keep himself alive. i was laughing my head off with my buddy, since we essentially can duo the dungeon really, just wanted to do it faster.

You taunt it, you tank it. you die? dps die kos its their own damn fault.

Silver_Strider

Yamenstein wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

It's so sad that the community has become so complacent with ZOS' incompetence with the group finder that they would just rather say things like "Stop complaining" to people rather than continue to hound ZOS to fix their broken grouping system.

It needs to be improved on, fullstop, and anyone that does not agree is wrong.

Does the group finder have problems? Yes. But at the same time people who cry over the fact that the tank that they grouped with doesn't play the same way they want doesn't mean the system is broken. It means that they decided to group with people using a system that let's everyone from the game population access.

If you don't like the healer and tank you get save yourself the trouble and group with guild mates.

Yes, sometimes the tank, the healer and even the dps are useless. Sometimes its because they don't understand how to play, as they are low levels, some of them don't care for any meta and just want to play they want as well, and some others just think that playing a light armoured tank works for them. I have a tank builds I take into vet dungeons that has low health, it works for me. I still kick ass in it but at the same time I know when I need to change over my gear for those extra tough moments.

Some people don't know how to play and the group finder isn't broken because it's excluding those people.

If you're doing the role you signed on for, then you wouldn't be classified as a fake but when a CP300+ character signs on to heal/tank but doesn't have the required tools to do so properly, that's when it becomes a problem because at that point, you are no longer new and have little excuse to queue up for a role they have no business being on.

As for the group with guildies argument, that doesn't always work unless you've played with them and know they can handle the content as they can be just as bad as PUGs. Had a Tank in one of my guilds that said that the Chokers during the Hagraven boss in vBRF was draining their stamina because DPS weren't killing them fast enough and I called them out on their BS after soloing the fight for 10-15 minutes after everyone else had died. Guild mates are NOT an answer to broken grouping system.

Azurya

Lynx7386 wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Well if you're so sick of fake tanks and healers maybe you should become a "real" tank or a "real" healer. Or join a guild and stop pugging.

I am - 4 out of my 5 characters are healers and tanks, but I can't usually cover both roles at once (sap tank used to be able to, no longer).

you could, if you were a warden

peacenote

I don't know if anything's changed these last few weeks or so, but most of the time I queue on my healer and lately I keep getting "DPS who can also heal" type folks in my group. They queue as DPS, but leave on their resto staves and toss heals out the whole time, and in some cases even seem to know the fights and the mechanics. Often I end up investing a lot of time with a group that does OK until it hits the DPS check fight.

As others have said, it is frustrating because with bad DPS it can be hard to know right away if you are trying to not be a jerk in the community. I am one of those that will teach, and ask questions, when grouped, but it can be awkward if no one is chatting or something just seems a little "off." Don't want to call out people that are learning, or having a bad lag day, either.

Some of this is just the community needing to be more responsible. Don't queue for a random vet if you aren't willing to do any dungeon that comes up, for example. However I do wonder if somehow some analytics could be put in to help make better matches for the harder, newer dungeons. The achievement system shows that a lot is being tracked (or could be) to accomplish this.

I do want to also say that "get some friends" or "join a guild" is not always the answer. I am in five guilds. Often due to my schedule no one is available to tackle the content I'm interested in when I'm on. Therefore I use group finder all the time. I actually wish it was available for Trials and DSA. It adds a lot of value for me, overall.

I do believe this is a complicated problem to fix because for every honest player out there, whether they be new and learning or experienced and wanting to teach, there are probably three or four that will use any tactic to game the system and just don't care. Can't weed those folks out in ESO... or in life.

Lynx7386

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

thewaywardone wrote: »

Also, there's a lot of conversation about just bad DPS or bad healing or bad tanking. Think about what's been said: Normal dungeons (for the most part) do not require roles. So if you have a newer player who isn't in a guild, but who zooms through content, they can go from 10-50 pretty fast, and if ALL they know are normal dungeons and their utter lack of need for roles, why is ANYONE surprised that when we get to VET level people are still behaving as they did for normals.

As a new CP healer, I tell EVERYONE in every group I'm in: I'm new to this; new to this dungeon, new to this role. Please explain fights or let me know if there's things I need to do. Most of the time, no one says anything in response at all and they steamroll through.

Why would I NOT believe the entire game is like that when I have a CP 720 behaving like that in a normal dungeon.

It's on us a bit, guys. If we want good tanks, good healers and good dps, you need to pause your breakneck run through whatever, and take a moment to teach. We all do.

Agreed On both highlighted points. . I think the only option is to MAKE NORMALS GREAT AGAIN. And maybe spit on the guys who rush dungeons and throw temper tantrums if you dont skip half the bosses,a nd the run takes mroe than 5 minutes.

Protip: if you have only 15 minutes before you have to go to bed/school/work? Don't queue. A week or so ago I was running a dungeon for a specific piece of set gear. Needless to say I didnt want to skip any bosses. Well half of our group thought they would do otherwise and ended up beating the final encounter before we made it through the 3 that lead up to him. So I wound up gettnig no boss loot..

Seriously fxck you, impatient tryhards.

Agreed here too. When I'm tanking, I absolutely hate it when some speedrunning tryhard dps is streaking/sprinting ahead and aggroing everything. he usually ends up dying, but it's frustrating when I have to waste all my stamina just trying to keep up, then have no stamina to taunt when I get to the enemies, and all of them are aggro'd on a dps already because he was the first one in.

What it really comes down to is this: It doesnt matter if the dungeon is so easy you can do it without a tank or healer. The fact is this game is designed around having a tank and healer, and when you try to cheat the system you just make it more frustrating and difficult for everyone involved. Play the content like it's meant to be played, at least if you're going to join public queues. If you want to speedrun or run 4 dps or fake heal, find your own guild group to do it with so you arent hindering the experience of other players that dont want to cater to your playstyle.

Lynx7386

Azurya wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Well if you're so sick of fake tanks and healers maybe you should become a "real" tank or a "real" healer. Or join a guild and stop pugging.

I am - 4 out of my 5 characters are healers and tanks, but I can't usually cover both roles at once (sap tank used to be able to, no longer).

you could, if you were a warden

One of my tanks is a warden, and yes he can heal-tank through a lot of the game's content, but certainly not some of the harder vet dlc dungeons - not to mention that, even though he CAN healtank, if the other three people in the group are doing *** poor damage it makes the whole run more stressful on everyone involved.

FakeFox

Navras wrote: »

I've played WoW for quite a lot of time, during last years I've pugged raid and dungeons a lot using a site called OpenRaid.

What made it working (and enjoyable) was the possibility of sending feedback and rating on players you were grouping with. Just because of that everyone (or almost everyone at least...) tried to give out their best, in proper role and so on.

A voting\rating system for Grouping Tool would be an absolutely great add for the community and for everyone wants to have a more enjoyable pugging experience.

Oh what a genius idea! Guess what will happen, everyone will downvote each other for stupid reasons or premades will simply upvote each other. You don't wan't to give me your loot? Guess I will have to give you a bad rating.

VonNelson

Fake healers who don’t even care!! I’ve recently started doing random vet dailies and it is a ballache! Queuing as a dps so expect a 45 minute wait then when it starts to matter like at the planar inhibitor they don’t even give a ***! Fake healers *shakes head*

phileunderx2

jim_1 wrote: »

I have two alts that I only PUG normal dungeons, because they are like level 38. One is an Argonian DK Tank, and the other is a Breton Templar Healer. I just finished Fungal Grotto with the tank, and just finished Blessed Crucible with the healer. No issues. Sometimes I use a soul gem or two to resurrect team mates that get stuck in red. No big deal. I have lots of soul gems.

Anyway, I can't remember the last time my PUG wiped in a dungeon. Hopefully all the folks having problems with their groups are in veteran dungeons, because I'm just not seeing issues with PUG in normal dungeons on PS4 / NA.

Wait until you start running the level2 and dc dungeons.

AhPook_Is_Here

As a bow/bow dps i support this thread.

Peekachu99

I’m sick of sub 5K dps who stand in red and cost me endless patience and soul gems. Statistically, I would assume there’s more bad dps than bad support roles. That’s the real epidemic.

starkerealm

Aesthier wrote: »

Hmmm here is a thought.

How about those who have "never completed" the dungeon are grouped separately from those who have completed it before.

Provided that the Tank or Healer "can opt in" to a first time group IF and only if they desire too.

Problem here is that carries are a thing. Also the old loop of, "you must prove you have done the thing before you can do it," which would lock most people out of it, regardless of their skill.

Peekachu99

KitLightning wrote: »

@Lynx7386 ZoS could make it so we can not sign up with more than one role when running a delve

Perhaps an oversight, but the fact that you (and many, many more) don’t distinguish a “group dungeon” from a “delve” is also kind of illuminating about the general knowledge of the player base and how they allocate their skills. The overall difficulty of world content should be increased, really, because you have people going from delves to vet dungeons with the exact same mindset and the quickly have their reality shattered.

Dracane

Navras wrote: »

A voting\rating system for Grouping Tool would be an absolutely great add for the community and for everyone wants to have a more enjoyable pugging experience.

This would be a great addition. Because I would finally start being nice and respectful towards randoms that I must carry. I need this.

montiferus

Rev Rielle wrote: »

When I'm at the beach and don't want to get sunburnt, I use an umbrella or put some sunblock on.
I don't stand there and yell at the sun for being too bright, or the clouds for not shading me.

You might consider doing something similarly.

Congrats you get the stupid post of the day award.

montiferus

Yamenstein wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

It's so sad that the community has become so complacent with ZOS' incompetence with the group finder that they would just rather say things like "Stop complaining" to people rather than continue to hound ZOS to fix their broken grouping system.

It needs to be improved on, fullstop, and anyone that does not agree is wrong.

Does the group finder have problems? Yes. But at the same time people who cry over the fact that the tank that they grouped with doesn't play the same way they want doesn't mean the system is broken. It means that they decided to group with people using a system that let's everyone from the game population access.

If you don't like the healer and tank you get save yourself the trouble and group with guild mates.

Yes, sometimes the tank, the healer and even the dps are useless. Sometimes its because they don't understand how to play, as they are low levels, some of them don't care for any meta and just want to play they want as well, and some others just think that playing a light armoured tank works for them. I have a tank builds I take into vet dungeons that has low health, it works for me. I still kick ass in it but at the same time I know when I need to change over my gear for those extra tough moments.

Some people don't know how to play and the group finder isn't broken because it's excluding those people.

No you are wrong. You are either too stupid to argue with or purposely trolling.

Merlin13KAGL

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

This is because theres no option in group finder to select "solo player."
People who make solo characters heal themselves, avoid damage themselves, they dont need somebody else to do it for them.
But if theres specific drops theyre looking for then theyre either forced to hang around the outside of a dungeon and wait for random people to show up or they have to pick one of those options in group finder.

It would be nice if solo players could use group finder to find other solo players.

Or better yet Zos can make all items drop in overland content so people who arent interested in playing with other people can just avoid those **** holes alltogether.

That would make it solo finder and to put it redundantly, that would be mildly redundant.

Plus, if you're capable of soloing the content, then it really doesn't matter what other three you get, making that request even more redundantly redundant.