I am fracking sick and tired of fake healers/tanks

Lynx7386

I don't give a damn if you'd been in queue for two hours because you're a dps, if you sign up as a healer or tank you'd better be able to do the damn job. Zos needs to crack down on this crap.

Marabornwingrion

Join a guild and stop QQing

MajesticHaruki

I don't mind as long as the fake tank or healer is not essential for the completion of the specific veteran dungeon. Otherwise kick and queue...

Lynx7386

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

I don't mind as long as the fake tank or healer is not essential for the completion of the specific veteran dungeon. Otherwise kick and queue...

Always attempt kicking but lately these morons run in pairs. Tonight it was a "tank" with 16k health and no taunt. Last night it was a healer without so much as a resto staff. The night before, a templar tank with two resto staves and no taunt.

This is getting on my nerves.

DoctorESO

This is a fake tank:



And this is a fake healer:

Stinkyremy

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Zos needs to crack down on this crap.

I agree, this stuff is bs, it took me over a week to get a healer alt to 9 undaunted because of fake tanks everywhere.
I'm a tank main so don't see this fake stuff often, but leveling the alts is a pain.

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

I don't mind as long as the fake tank or healer is not essential for the completion of the specific veteran dungeon. Otherwise kick and queue...

I had a fake tank join tempest last boss the other day, but he had the decency to slot inner fire. If they do that, that is acceptable on some dungeons. If not, kick. You are just adding to their cancer if you allow them to continue.
Kicking fake tanks, healers and low cp players so that they get a 15min ban is the only way for them to learn "maybe it is less time consuming queuing as a dps when I am a dps" or "maybe I shouldn't queue for vet dungeons until I am 160" especially the 87 cps who manage to get in bloodroot.

The irony of my latter complaint is that zos stopped the queuing for most dungeons below level 45, even if we are running a 690 alt, but I still see low cp players in all vet dungeons, and even the harder DLC dungeons.

zos are useless.

AzraelKrieg

Well if you're so sick of fake tanks and healers maybe you should become a "real" tank or a "real" healer. Or join a guild and stop pugging.

Tan9oSuccka

I recommend pugging with your own tank or healer. At least you know one of the roles is taken care of.

If the DPS stinks, just leave.

Lynx7386

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Well if you're so sick of fake tanks and healers maybe you should become a "real" tank or a "real" healer. Or join a guild and stop pugging.

I am - 4 out of my 5 characters are healers and tanks, but I can't usually cover both roles at once (sap tank used to be able to, no longer).

LittlePinkDot

This is because theres no option in group finder to select "solo player."
People who make solo characters heal themselves, avoid damage themselves, they dont need somebody else to do it for them.
But if theres specific drops theyre looking for then theyre either forced to hang around the outside of a dungeon and wait for random people to show up or they have to pick one of those options in group finder.

It would be nice if solo players could use group finder to find other solo players.

Or better yet Zos can make all items drop in overland content so people who arent interested in playing with other people can just avoid those **** holes alltogether.

Demra

O_o somehow i posted this in wrong thread...

Jhalin

If it's normal mode, you have no reason to be whining about it.

If it's vet, just leave and move on.

Lynx7386

Jhalin wrote: »

If it's normal mode, you have no reason to be whining about it.

If it's vet, just leave and move on.

Who runs normal modes these days?

VaranisArano

If I wanted to tank the boss on my healer, I would have queued as a tank.

When I get boss aggro as the healer (obviously with me not using a taunt), I'm very tempted to run around like a chicken with my head cut off even though I'm perfectly capable of standing in place, tanking, and healing, buffing, and doing some DPS. Why? Because if the fake tank can't be bothered to slot a taunt, why should the fake tank get to enjoy a decent DPS parse?

ccfeeling

Lynx7386 wrote: »

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

I don't mind as long as the fake tank or healer is not essential for the completion of the specific veteran dungeon. Otherwise kick and queue...

Always attempt kicking but lately these morons run in pairs. Tonight it was a "tank" with 16k health and no taunt. Last night it was a healer without so much as a resto staff. The night before, a templar tank with two resto staves and no taunt.

This is getting on my nerves.

Lol .
Tank at least slots a taunt skill ...
I don't even think about the healer unless the group will going to play DLC vdun HM .

Silver_Strider

It's so sad that the community has become so complacent with ZOS' incompetence with the group finder that they would just rather say things like "Stop complaining" to people rather than continue to hound ZOS to fix their broken grouping system.

It needs to be improved on, fullstop, and anyone that does not agree is wrong.

ArchMikem

Astrid_V wrote: »

Join a guild and stop QQing

^ Victim Blaming 101 ^

Reverb

I'm tired of joining groups on my healer and doing 50% of the total damage. while healing. The player base is broken, not the grouping tool.

Silver_Strider

Reverb wrote: »

I'm tired of joining groups on my healer and doing 50% of the total damage. while healing. The player base is broken, not the grouping tool.

It would help if ZOS stopped with the ceaseless handholding throughout the game and had players actually need to try to clear content. Make some actually tough solo content, or even just revert some of the old content that was actually kind of difficult back in the day.

#UnnerfDoshia.

Solo content NEEDS to be somewhat challenging. People NEED to die repeatedly, learn the patterns, learn when to block/bash/dodge etc, else they'll never improve.

Aurielle

Reverb wrote: »

I'm tired of joining groups on my healer and doing 50% of the total damage. while healing. The player base is broken, not the grouping tool.

This. I had to leave a normal WGT earlier because the group was SO BAD. I only run normals for the daily XP bonus, so I generally don't re-spec for more damage on my healer or tank. I also don't wear DPS gear when healing/tanking in DLC dungeons, as normal PUG DLC dungeons can be hit or miss.

I ended up killing the first boss by myself with my whopping 6k DPS, because my group mates kept standing in stupid and apparently couldn't figure out how to pick locks when sent to jail. One was also spamming light bow attacks and doing minimal damage; the other was just spamming Templar jabs, from the looks of it. Trash pulls, as you can probably imagine, took an eternity. I noticed that NO one was destroying rifts in the trash pulls leading up the Planar Inhibitor, which I took as a bad sign...

I asked if anyone had done Planar before. Dead silence. Just as I started to type directions, one of the DPS went ahead and aggroed the boss. Predictably, the first pass was a wipe; no one closed rifts, and the healer couldn't keep me up or swap aggro during the inevitable blue phase. I explained the fight. No one listened. We managed to take it down despite the DPS's apparent inability to realize that they had rifts to close, but I decided to drop group at that point because I didn't much like the prospect of explaining to these folks that standing in lightning is generally a bad idea.

Seriously, people: learn how to get the most out of the role you're queuing for, and SPEAK UP if it's your first time in a dungeon. Also, listen to your tank/healer!

Ingenon

I have two alts that I only PUG normal dungeons, because they are like level 38. One is an Argonian DK Tank, and the other is a Breton Templar Healer. I just finished Fungal Grotto with the tank, and just finished Blessed Crucible with the healer. No issues. Sometimes I use a soul gem or two to resurrect team mates that get stuck in red. No big deal. I have lots of soul gems.

Anyway, I can't remember the last time my PUG wiped in a dungeon. Hopefully all the folks having problems with their groups are in veteran dungeons, because I'm just not seeing issues with PUG in normal dungeons on PS4 / NA.

Reedx

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

If it's normal mode, you have no reason to be whining about it.

If it's vet, just leave and move on.

Who runs normal modes these days?

those who arent vets ? lol

jrgray93

It is partially a player problem because this game has a huge skill gap between new and veteran players. Easy content is a joke and hard content requires a high degree of skill, regardless of what the elitists will claim. This game has a lot more moving parts than most and building effectively takes knowledge and effort that most players don't have. If I can't carry the group DPS, I'm usually in for a slog. This is why I feel compelled to never tank in randoms, contributing to long DPS queues. I'm not alone.

As for fake queues, yes, something needs done. At the very least, make the group finder not put someone back in your group after you kick them. I had the same fake tank join a group ten times in a row before filling with a guild member. Of course you can't give a deserter style debuff to people you kick because that could be abused easily. I laugh at people who vote to kick low CP players in vanilla dungeons, but some groups may 3/3 kick them and they don't deserve to have a lockout timer for that.

Oh, and "join a guild" is not a valid argument against improving this system. If all you ever did was play with your guilds, the community would stagnate and it wouldn't encourage people to stick around. Isolationism isn't good for the health of an MMO.

Ep1kMalware

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I don't give a damn if you'd been in queue for two hours because you're a dps, if you sign up as a healer or tank you'd better be able to do the damn job. Zos needs to crack down on this crap.

Honestly if it's normal dungeon who cares. So long as they don't run around with the boss I could care less. I did a vet mazzatun as a dps ladt night. 2 manned it with a nightblade healer. Anything is possible if you don't suck.

DoctorESO

Aurielle wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

I'm tired of joining groups on my healer and doing 50% of the total damage. while healing. The player base is broken, not the grouping tool.

This. I had to leave a normal WGT earlier because the group was SO BAD. I only run normals for the daily XP bonus, so I generally don't re-spec for more damage on my healer or tank. I also don't wear DPS gear when healing/tanking in DLC dungeons, as normal PUG DLC dungeons can be hit or miss.

I ended up killing the first boss by myself with my whopping 6k DPS, because my group mates kept standing in stupid and apparently couldn't figure out how to pick locks when sent to jail. One was also spamming light bow attacks and doing minimal damage; the other was just spamming Templar jabs, from the looks of it. Trash pulls, as you can probably imagine, took an eternity. I noticed that NO one was destroying rifts in the trash pulls leading up the Planar Inhibitor, which I took as a bad sign...

I asked if anyone had done Planar before. Dead silence. Just as I started to type directions, one of the DPS went ahead and aggroed the boss. Predictably, the first pass was a wipe; no one closed rifts, and the healer couldn't keep me up or swap aggro during the inevitable blue phase. I explained the fight. No one listened. We managed to take it down despite the DPS's apparent inability to realize that they had rifts to close, but I decided to drop group at that point because I didn't much like the prospect of explaining to these folks that standing in lightning is generally a bad idea.

Seriously, people: learn how to get the most out of the role you're queuing for, and SPEAK UP if it's your first time in a dungeon. Also, listen to your tank/healer!

I guess I'm really lucky that I've never had a PUG nWGT group that failed. I've joined in-progress instances as a healer, however. If low DPS is the reason, or high DPS can compensate, a templar healer can throw down elemental blockade, blazing spear, and ritual of retribution and turn the tide. This is on top of SPC and combat prayer, but those don't help much at all when DPS is really really low to begin with.

Reedx

a good healer here, and have to say that in normal a easy vet dungeons it dont matter, because i make sure that they dont die, unless they are being one shot ofc, but yeah can see how this is a promblem if you get a fake healer, and how boss fights last way longer then they need to when the dd have to run around and cant focus on just dps when it is a fake tank in the group

DoctorESO

Whitebeerd wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

If it's normal mode, you have no reason to be whining about it.

If it's vet, just leave and move on.

Who runs normal modes these days?

those who arent vets ? lol

Even vets run random normals for the daily experience/rewards. It's very very quick and basically 100% guaranteed success if you have high DPS or can switch to high DPS with a gear swap.

Ep1kMalware

Whitebeerd wrote: »

a good healer here, and have to say that in normal a easy vet dungeons it dont matter, because i make sure that they dont die, unless they are being one shot ofc, but yeah can see how this is a promblem if you get a fake healer, and how boss fights last way longer then they need to when the dd have to run around and cant focus on just dps when it is a fake tank in the group

The problem is 99% of dps just spam light attacks. Who the hell wants to tank that ***.

Most dps just stand there and intentionally ignore the fact they're killing themselves standing in gtaoes anyway, why even coddle them with heals. Let them die and watch, maybe they'll learn.

Idk, I like queing in as a dd and watching those drooling saps stand in aoes and run like around the room with a boss. I'm zoning out to creepy pastas anyway.

Lynx7386

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

I'm tired of joining groups on my healer and doing 50% of the total damage. while healing. The player base is broken, not the grouping tool.

It would help if ZOS stopped with the ceaseless handholding throughout the game and had players actually need to try to clear content. Make some actually tough solo content, or even just revert some of the old content that was actually kind of difficult back in the day.

#UnnerfDoshia.

Solo content NEEDS to be somewhat challenging. People NEED to die repeatedly, learn the patterns, learn when to block/bash/dodge etc, else they'll never improve.

As much as I would like to see some tougher solo content again (I remember the doshia days), part of the problem was that after hitting max level you wound up with a few situations in regards to solo play:
-Tanks could never kill anything if enemies had healing or too much health
-DPS would get flattened too quickly to actually kill any enemies, because the damage was too high
-Healers kinda got the worst of both worlds, lacking the damage output of a dps or the survivability of a tank

Aurielle wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

I'm tired of joining groups on my healer and doing 50% of the total damage. while healing. The player base is broken, not the grouping tool.

This. I had to leave a normal WGT earlier because the group was SO BAD. I only run normals for the daily XP bonus, so I generally don't re-spec for more damage on my healer or tank. I also don't wear DPS gear when healing/tanking in DLC dungeons, as normal PUG DLC dungeons can be hit or miss.

I ended up killing the first boss by myself with my whopping 6k DPS, because my group mates kept standing in stupid and apparently couldn't figure out how to pick locks when sent to jail. One was also spamming light bow attacks and doing minimal damage; the other was just spamming Templar jabs, from the looks of it. Trash pulls, as you can probably imagine, took an eternity. I noticed that NO one was destroying rifts in the trash pulls leading up the Planar Inhibitor, which I took as a bad sign...

I asked if anyone had done Planar before. Dead silence. Just as I started to type directions, one of the DPS went ahead and aggroed the boss. Predictably, the first pass was a wipe; no one closed rifts, and the healer couldn't keep me up or swap aggro during the inevitable blue phase. I explained the fight. No one listened. We managed to take it down despite the DPS's apparent inability to realize that they had rifts to close, but I decided to drop group at that point because I didn't much like the prospect of explaining to these folks that standing in lightning is generally a bad idea.

Seriously, people: learn how to get the most out of the role you're queuing for, and SPEAK UP if it's your first time in a dungeon. Also, listen to your tank/healer!

Had that issue tonight as well, on my DK tank. I ended up soloing the adjudicator from about 40-50% to zero because everyone else kept dying to flames or couldnt get out of their cages. Took a while but I managed.

Also during planar inhibitor I kept having the dps use the anchor and taunting the boss off of me at the wrong times.

jrgray93 wrote: »

It is partially a player problem because this game has a huge skill gap between new and veteran players. Easy content is a joke and hard content requires a high degree of skill, regardless of what the elitists will claim. This game has a lot more moving parts than most and building effectively takes knowledge and effort that most players don't have. If I can't carry the group DPS, I'm usually in for a slog. This is why I feel compelled to never tank in randoms, contributing to long DPS queues. I'm not alone.

As for fake queues, yes, something needs done. At the very least, make the group finder not put someone back in your group after you kick them. I had the same fake tank join a group ten times in a row before filling with a guild member. Of course you can't give a deserter style debuff to people you kick because that could be abused easily. I laugh at people who vote to kick low CP players in vanilla dungeons, but some groups may 3/3 kick them and they don't deserve to have a lockout timer for that.

Oh, and "join a guild" is not a valid argument against improving this system. If all you ever did was play with your guilds, the community would stagnate and it wouldn't encourage people to stick around. Isolationism isn't good for the health of an MMO.

I'm in that middle area where I full well know the mechanics and the intricacies of building a good character that can fill a set role, but I still struggle on some of the DLC vet content and occasionally in vet trials because some of the mechanics are just a hassle - I'm not fond of one shot mechanics at all, especially those you cant anticipate and avoid.

Whitebeerd wrote: »

a good healer here, and have to say that in normal a easy vet dungeons it dont matter, because i make sure that they dont die, unless they are being one shot ofc, but yeah can see how this is a promblem if you get a fake healer, and how boss fights last way longer then they need to when the dd have to run around and cant focus on just dps when it is a fake tank in the group

Sure, if we're talking crypt of hearts or fungal grotto I typically dont have an issue with it (though that resto staff templar "tank" I mentioned was in our fungal grotto 1 vet group, and we finally got fed up and kicked him because he would get one shot over and over on the final boss and couldnt hold aggro at all).

But even in the easiest dungeons there are generally mechanics that will one shot and require, at the very minimum, a taunt and someone who can heal.

Valkysas154

I get more fake dps than fake tanks -cant get fake healer since i heal-
such as last night got a blood forge pop i was doing 44% of the total damage on fights -with 8kdps- - only have 3dps skills on my healer and there more support such as spear for stamina regen took over4 10min to kill first boss tank left right after
so i told them kindly we did not have the dps for this dungeon and also left

But to be fair they could of just did a random dungeon and got that pop

Ep1kMalware

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

I'm tired of joining groups on my healer and doing 50% of the total damage. while healing. The player base is broken, not the grouping tool.

It would help if ZOS stopped with the ceaseless handholding throughout the game and had players actually need to try to clear content. Make some actually tough solo content, or even just revert some of the old content that was actually kind of difficult back in the day.

#UnnerfDoshia.

Solo content NEEDS to be somewhat challenging. People NEED to die repeatedly, learn the patterns, learn when to block/bash/dodge etc, else they'll never improve.

As much as I would like to see some tougher solo content again (I remember the doshia days), part of the problem was that after hitting max level you wound up with a few situations in regards to solo play:
-Tanks could never kill anything if enemies had healing or too much health
-DPS would get flattened too quickly to actually kill any enemies, because the damage was too high
-Healers kinda got the worst of both worlds, lacking the damage output of a dps or the survivability of a tank

Aurielle wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

I'm tired of joining groups on my healer and doing 50% of the total damage. while healing. The player base is broken, not the grouping tool.

This. I had to leave a normal WGT earlier because the group was SO BAD. I only run normals for the daily XP bonus, so I generally don't re-spec for more damage on my healer or tank. I also don't wear DPS gear when healing/tanking in DLC dungeons, as normal PUG DLC dungeons can be hit or miss.

I ended up killing the first boss by myself with my whopping 6k DPS, because my group mates kept standing in stupid and apparently couldn't figure out how to pick locks when sent to jail. One was also spamming light bow attacks and doing minimal damage; the other was just spamming Templar jabs, from the looks of it. Trash pulls, as you can probably imagine, took an eternity. I noticed that NO one was destroying rifts in the trash pulls leading up the Planar Inhibitor, which I took as a bad sign...

I asked if anyone had done Planar before. Dead silence. Just as I started to type directions, one of the DPS went ahead and aggroed the boss. Predictably, the first pass was a wipe; no one closed rifts, and the healer couldn't keep me up or swap aggro during the inevitable blue phase. I explained the fight. No one listened. We managed to take it down despite the DPS's apparent inability to realize that they had rifts to close, but I decided to drop group at that point because I didn't much like the prospect of explaining to these folks that standing in lightning is generally a bad idea.

Seriously, people: learn how to get the most out of the role you're queuing for, and SPEAK UP if it's your first time in a dungeon. Also, listen to your tank/healer!

Had that issue tonight as well, on my DK tank. I ended up soloing the adjudicator from about 40-50% to zero because everyone else kept dying to flames or couldnt get out of their cages. Took a while but I managed.

Also during planar inhibitor I kept having the dps use the anchor and taunting the boss off of me at the wrong times.

jrgray93 wrote: »

It is partially a player problem because this game has a huge skill gap between new and veteran players. Easy content is a joke and hard content requires a high degree of skill, regardless of what the elitists will claim. This game has a lot more moving parts than most and building effectively takes knowledge and effort that most players don't have. If I can't carry the group DPS, I'm usually in for a slog. This is why I feel compelled to never tank in randoms, contributing to long DPS queues. I'm not alone.

As for fake queues, yes, something needs done. At the very least, make the group finder not put someone back in your group after you kick them. I had the same fake tank join a group ten times in a row before filling with a guild member. Of course you can't give a deserter style debuff to people you kick because that could be abused easily. I laugh at people who vote to kick low CP players in vanilla dungeons, but some groups may 3/3 kick them and they don't deserve to have a lockout timer for that.

Oh, and "join a guild" is not a valid argument against improving this system. If all you ever did was play with your guilds, the community would stagnate and it wouldn't encourage people to stick around. Isolationism isn't good for the health of an MMO.

I'm in that middle area where I full well know the mechanics and the intricacies of building a good character that can fill a set role, but I still struggle on some of the DLC vet content and occasionally in vet trials because some of the mechanics are just a hassle - I'm not fond of one shot mechanics at all, especially those you cant anticipate and avoid.

Whitebeerd wrote: »

a good healer here, and have to say that in normal a easy vet dungeons it dont matter, because i make sure that they dont die, unless they are being one shot ofc, but yeah can see how this is a promblem if you get a fake healer, and how boss fights last way longer then they need to when the dd have to run around and cant focus on just dps when it is a fake tank in the group

Sure, if we're talking crypt of hearts or fungal grotto I typically dont have an issue with it (though that resto staff templar "tank" I mentioned was in our fungal grotto 1 vet group, and we finally got fed up and kicked him because he would get one shot over and over on the final boss and couldnt hold aggro at all).

But even in the easiest dungeons there are generally mechanics that will one shot and require, at the very minimum, a taunt and someone who can heal.

One shot mechanics? What 1 shot mechanics? The only semi difficult mechanics is trusting your team to not murder your face when the time comes.