Apparently animation cancelling is being removed

zaria

Sigtric wrote: »

jssriot wrote: »

Valkysas154 wrote: »

They should it's a exploit - as in was not intended

It perhaps originally wasn't intended but now it's essential for a lot of end game content. The main means for animation cancelling--bar swapping and block--aren't things they can remove from the game and making it so you can't do those actions until an animation is complete would be pretty disastrous for pve combat.

I don't like how ZOS acts like it's not part of the combat system, but it is.

It's a side effect of being able to bar swap, block or dodge, or activate a skill when you need to to react to being attacked.
It was not intended to be a DPS mechanic but it became one. End game content is balanced around DPS numbers that are present using it. It's not going to go anywhere. Basically it was designed into the game for reaction purposes and started being used for a different purpose (DPS gains)

The fake patch notes going around don't even mention removing it, just that 'cancelling an animation also cancels the function of the ability being cancelled'. The big DPS gains don't even come from ACing abilities, but rather ACing light attacks, which was not mentioned at all in the "patch notes".

This so much, yes you could remove it by making all skills trigger at end of animation, however this would give heals and shields an +0.5 second delay to.

Obviously the effect in pvp then all skills are telegraphed to other players before casting will be way larger.

Banana

And my ping is 0

LadyNalcarya

James-Wayne wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

If animation cancelling were indeed removed, what would the DPS drop be like?

Around 25-30k max per single target

Nah, it would still be in 35k+ range.
But there would be more deaths since ESO combat is designed to be fluid and you if you're unable to stop casting when there's a huge red circle under your feet... You're screwed, to put it simply. And the combat will be more sluggish.
Its funny how the majority of people who criticize AC dont really understand what it is and how it affects the game.

HorizonPK

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i wish

Sigtric wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

LOL Now the title will show up on dev tracker and people will lost their minds.

The image that started this has been floating around for a while and I'm surprised it took as long as it did to get a post about it.. lol

well atleast that fake news is bringing people back, means people really do hate that animation canceling and dying in under one tenth of a second to a whole bunch of hits.
animation canceling needs to be removed from eso.

If you're the kind of player who can be killed in under one second to multiple hits, then you're also the kind of player who can be killed in a few seconds without animation cancelling. It's not the bogeyman you think it is.

i see it happening to everyone, even fengrish while he was doing a teaching stream.
he died in what looked like one hit.
your trying to defend a cheat that was not intended, and needs removed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqxr9npkbHo

Im gonna assume you're talking about this, well guess what, ganking like this is next to impossible to do nowadays, I know because I was a ganker for a year straight until it was eventually killed off, the only time this stuff mostly happens to people is when they're wearing light armor and not shielding/blocking, sure maybe it happens sometimes to medium armor but its nothing like it used to be, I used to hit people in heavy armor with 20k incaps followed by a 15k heavy attack. I would give some screen shots but I don't have them anymore. Another thing you have to take note of, is that gank builds are in all divines and have low resource management, low hp and die incredibly quick, I cant tell you how many 'gankers' I was able to 1 shot with a single leap on my heavy armor stam dk, ganking had its pros and cons. But hey, ganking is dead now, those snipe spammers from stealth dont count, whens the last time you got killed in .1 secs by a combo from stealth outside of light armor. (the only exception to this is the Onslaught gank, but thats extremely hard to pull of because of the changes to Clever Alchemist a while ago.)

Alcast

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

General

• Fixed an issue where other players could easily doctor or Photoshop images. You should no longer believe everything you read.
  • Note: Moving forward, if you come across an image that appears to be a patch note, simply visit the official ESO forums to see the truth for yourself.

Quite hilarious that people believe every poop they read on the internet

LadyLavina

lol OP is either a troll or the kind of person that sees something that excites them and immediately shares without research to see if its legit.

Turelus

I'm late to this one but damn that Gina post is epic.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

If animation cancelling were indeed removed, what would the DPS drop be like?

Around 25-30k max per single target

Nah, it would still be in 35k+ range.
But there would be more deaths since ESO combat is designed to be fluid and you if you're unable to stop casting when there's a huge red circle under your feet... You're screwed, to put it simply. And the combat will be more sluggish.
Its funny how the majority of people who criticize AC dont really understand what it is and how it affects the game.

Except I would imagine dodge roll would still cancel things. So yes basic combat would be slower. But no one would have to stand in red.

It is funny how the majority of people who talk about ac seem like they have never played a good action combat game that managed to do it without animation canceling on all skills.

Rungar

its exactly this that turns a lot of players off of pvp. Sanctioned use of cheezy exploits.

if you cancel the animation you should also cancel the dmg.

ManDraKE

Rungar wrote: »

its exactly this that turns a lot of players off of pvp. Sanctioned use of cheezy exploits.

if you cancel the animation you should also cancel the dmg.

try minesweeper, eso is definitely not your game bro.

AnviOfVai

lol this thread was a joy to read after my lunch break

Tommy_The_Gun

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

General

• Fixed an issue where other players could easily doctor or Photoshop images. You should no longer believe everything you read.
  • Note: Moving forward, if you come across an image that appears to be a patch note, simply visit the official ESO forums to see the truth for yourself.

LOL

Forum mod reaction is priceless... I wonder how it must have been like...
- Oh.. someone has posted fake patch notes. So technically it is kind of against forum rules... who posted it ? Oh.. oh my.. what can you do with that.. ? I guess all I can do is to type "LOL"

Anyway - Imagine this game without animation cancelling Some content could be probably unplayable...

RazorCaltrops

I would stop writing on forums after this if i was a “remove animation canceling it’s an exploit” snowflake

LordSemaj

zaria wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

jssriot wrote: »

Valkysas154 wrote: »

They should it's a exploit - as in was not intended

It perhaps originally wasn't intended but now it's essential for a lot of end game content. The main means for animation cancelling--bar swapping and block--aren't things they can remove from the game and making it so you can't do those actions until an animation is complete would be pretty disastrous for pve combat.

I don't like how ZOS acts like it's not part of the combat system, but it is.

It's a side effect of being able to bar swap, block or dodge, or activate a skill when you need to to react to being attacked.
It was not intended to be a DPS mechanic but it became one. End game content is balanced around DPS numbers that are present using it. It's not going to go anywhere. Basically it was designed into the game for reaction purposes and started being used for a different purpose (DPS gains)

The fake patch notes going around don't even mention removing it, just that 'cancelling an animation also cancels the function of the ability being cancelled'. The big DPS gains don't even come from ACing abilities, but rather ACing light attacks, which was not mentioned at all in the "patch notes".

This so much, yes you could remove it by making all skills trigger at end of animation, however this would give heals and shields an +0.5 second delay to.

Obviously the effect in pvp then all skills are telegraphed to other players before casting will be way larger.

Skills already trigger delayed, it's what allows you to block or dodge anything. If you took the damage as soon as the casting began then nothing would be avoidable. If the damage was calculated before you put up block then nothing would be mitigated unless you block spam.

If they wanted to remove it, they could. Just about every other MMO has the ability to cancel a casting for emergency reactions but it's not the same as still doing the skill or damage even if you cancelled it. A healer casting a spell who interrupts it by dodging would simply fail the spell even if it was an instant cast.

Whether or not they should remove it is a different matter but they totally could without changing too much about how skills are cast. Many action MMOs do not allow this to function as it is while still having free range of mobility. RPGs even get around it by using autoattack, you're always cancelling light attacks automatically because the character is always doing them automatically when in range of a target. Just press skill buttons. This form of automated animation cancelling has existed since the birth of the genre.

But considering the Morrowind sustain nerf requires more heavy attacks in a rotation, ZOS is pushing for MORE animation cancelling instead of less.

Tan9oSuccka

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

General

• Fixed an issue where other players could easily doctor or Photoshop images. You should no longer believe everything you read.
  • Note: Moving forward, if you come across an image that appears to be a patch note, simply visit the official ESO forums to see the truth for yourself.

This made my day, haha! Thanks Gina

cmetzger93

I wish.

Rungar

LordSemaj wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

jssriot wrote: »

Valkysas154 wrote: »

They should it's a exploit - as in was not intended

It perhaps originally wasn't intended but now it's essential for a lot of end game content. The main means for animation cancelling--bar swapping and block--aren't things they can remove from the game and making it so you can't do those actions until an animation is complete would be pretty disastrous for pve combat.

I don't like how ZOS acts like it's not part of the combat system, but it is.

It's a side effect of being able to bar swap, block or dodge, or activate a skill when you need to to react to being attacked.
It was not intended to be a DPS mechanic but it became one. End game content is balanced around DPS numbers that are present using it. It's not going to go anywhere. Basically it was designed into the game for reaction purposes and started being used for a different purpose (DPS gains)

The fake patch notes going around don't even mention removing it, just that 'cancelling an animation also cancels the function of the ability being cancelled'. The big DPS gains don't even come from ACing abilities, but rather ACing light attacks, which was not mentioned at all in the "patch notes".

This so much, yes you could remove it by making all skills trigger at end of animation, however this would give heals and shields an +0.5 second delay to.

Obviously the effect in pvp then all skills are telegraphed to other players before casting will be way larger.

Skills already trigger delayed, it's what allows you to block or dodge anything. If you took the damage as soon as the casting began then nothing would be avoidable. If the damage was calculated before you put up block then nothing would be mitigated unless you block spam.

If they wanted to remove it, they could. Just about every other MMO has the ability to cancel a casting for emergency reactions but it's not the same as still doing the skill or damage even if you cancelled it. A healer casting a spell who interrupts it by dodging would simply fail the spell even if it was an instant cast.

Whether or not they should remove it is a different matter but they totally could without changing too much about how skills are cast. Many action MMOs do not allow this to function as it is while still having free range of mobility. RPGs even get around it by using autoattack, you're always cancelling light attacks automatically because the character is always doing them automatically when in range of a target. Just press skill buttons. This form of automated animation cancelling has existed since the birth of the genre.

But considering the Morrowind sustain nerf requires more heavy attacks in a rotation, ZOS is pushing for MORE animation cancelling instead of less.

I'm certainly not against anyone blocking or dodging an attack by cancelling what they were doing to do that. I would like to hear the logic as to why i cancel an attack i still get to do the dmg.

you need to be set free of it. You shouldn't need to have to do this to play the game. Quite soulless for a game designed around souls.

Cpt_Teemo

AnviOfVai wrote: »

lol this thread was a joy to read after my lunch break

JackDaniell

Aww yeah PUNISH THE CHEATERS! CANCELS ARE HAX!

dsalter

Rungar wrote: »

its exactly this that turns a lot of players off of pvp. Sanctioned use of cheezy exploits.

if you cancel the animation you should also cancel the dmg.

hence CANCELLING
wtf does ending an ability early to get faster damage for no extra effort have to do with "skill"

Feidam

Animation cancelling is bogus imo. I do it because I have too but quite frankly I find it tedious and boring. I’d much rather see completed smooth animations to what we have now. It’s not hard to do and it’s not a skill it’s just extra button mashing for the sake of mashing buttons.

dsalter

Feidam wrote: »

Animation cancelling is bogus imo. I do it because I have too but quite frankly I find it tedious and boring. I’d much rather see completed smooth animations to what we have now. It’s not hard to do and it’s not a skill it’s just extra button mashing for the sake of mashing buttons.

it mainly annoys me that
A: it cuts most animations into looking like spazzed flailing
B: actually increases damage output
3: game gets balanced around said exploit BECAUSE of people using it to min max.

zeni were idiots for catering to the exploit instead of doing the blizzard and fixing it.

Mureel

MetalHead4x4 wrote: »

The animation was originally intended to be seen, it's animates a cast or ability in use. To be able to bypass it is dumb, not everyone can AC like me I have nerve damage in my hand. What if people are disabled? Have injuries? We're supposed to just be out-gunned? It needs to be removed. Having 3 Lethal Arrows in the air simultaneously is ridiculous.

And another thing, I knew a straight up basass old lady (her words not mine!) 74 (then) back in the day, mag sorc rolling in leaderboard scores and posting very competitive dps, like higher than half the others lower than some - but damn good, and she used an orb weaver with trackball because she was missing all but her thumb on her left hand. She was in what was then called Daydrunk, and later in Purple with me, as well as Deviance and pvpd in Alacrity and DiE after that... so yeah.

I taught a tank to tank and his brother to dps in trials and they've spoke not a word of English nor me of Portuguese. They ended up becoming amazing.

So yeah. Can't never could.
Adapt and overcome.

dsalter

Mureel wrote: »

MetalHead4x4 wrote: »

The animation was originally intended to be seen, it's animates a cast or ability in use. To be able to bypass it is dumb, not everyone can AC like me I have nerve damage in my hand. What if people are disabled? Have injuries? We're supposed to just be out-gunned? It needs to be removed. Having 3 Lethal Arrows in the air simultaneously is ridiculous.

And another thing, I knew a straight up basass old lady (her words not mine!) 74 (then) back in the day, mag sorc rolling in leaderboard scores and posting very competitive dps, like higher than half the others lower than some - but damn good, and she used an orb weaver with trackball because she was missing all but her thumb on her left hand. She was in what was then called Daydrunk, and later in Purple with me, as well as Deviance and pvpd in Alacrity and DiE after that... so yeah.

I taught a tank to tank and his brother to dps in trials and they've spoke not a word of English nor me of Portuguese. They ended up becoming amazing.

So yeah. Can't never could.
Adapt and overcome.

thats what you call an exception.
had a guild member waaay back in the first expansion of wow who had only one arm and was one of our best shaman players. we didnt just assume "if he can do it, so can you" because not everyone is say... an athlete runner or a super genius. you either get born with it, learn it, or never have it.

edit: didnt mean to get snappy, just so sick and tired of this mindset of "if they can do it, so can you" because not everyone is the same, i suffer from a very bad skin condition (not going into detail) and it restricts my hand,feet and occasionally elbow+knee movement but get told very regular "i hurt my hand/foot/knee/elbow and i can do it" and when you hear that every so often it wears you down.

Spacemonkey

only reason i dont like animation cancelling is that it gets hard to tell visually in vanilla game if what you cancelled is going to land or not. and i am 100% against the visual clutter the addons that would fix that would do to my game.

So w/e, it honestly doesnt do that much of a difference in larger scale pvp, or in dungeons,
it is annoying that it does make a difference in trials and battlegrounds. (and dueling). So i just barely do any of that.

Still, if zos is going to sanction it, they shouldve 1, explained it properly for new players. 2 visual cues.

temjiu

I am not a huge fan of animation cancelling. But I do understand that it's a by product of the combat mechanics as they are designed now in the game. Actually redesigning most (if not all) of the combat mechanics in the game to eliminate animation cancelling would be extremely counterproductive. There are many far more important thing to do then that. If it was just a small fix, sure. but literally...everything you do in regards to dodging, blocking, interrupting...everything that makes the combat in this game "interactive" revolves around the combat engine who's byproduct is ani-cancel.

It's like your spouses snoring...not really going to change, either learn to live with it or get the heck outa dodge. I avoided it for personaly reasons forever until this recent patch, when I found myself doing it instinctively due to having to weave in all these silly heavy attacks. It's just natural....If I have to spool up for a heavy attack, I'm going to do something as soon as I can after so I can at least feel like I'm actually fighting. a few hours later I realized, "Oh wow...im doing ani cancel! I'm a pro now!"

Then a skeever killed me. I guess the MMO gods need to keep me humble.

QuebraRegra

jssriot wrote: »

Valkysas154 wrote: »

They should it's a exploit - as in was not intended

It perhaps originally wasn't intended but now it's essential for a lot of end game content. The main means for animation cancelling--bar swapping and block--aren't things they can remove from the game and making it so you can't do those actions until an animation is complete would be pretty disastrous for pve combat.

I don't like how ZOS acts like it's not part of the combat system, but it is.

I've hated it from the beginning... that said the game would have to be re balanced (and it should be!). Maybe they can fix ani cancel and rebalance in the same patch that reworks the CP system to provide no actual power increases? :P

Gnortranermara

Animation cancelling can't be completely removed, but it SHOULD have its teeth pulled. Simply adjust the damage value of abilities by the proportion of the animation that plays. If you block or roll or swap halfway through your animation, the ability should only do 50% damage. If you cancel so faster that you twitch and drop a wall of elements with only 5% of the animation playing, the wall should only do 5% of its normal damage. Bottom line: animation canceling is an unintended exploit, a cancer that the devs have not only negligently tolerated, but actively fed by balancing and adjusting mechanics around the playstyle of exploiters.

MehrunesFlagon

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Animation cancelling can't be completely removed, but it SHOULD have its teeth pulled. Simply adjust the damage value of abilities by the proportion of the animation that plays. If you block or roll or swap halfway through your animation, the ability should only do 50% damage. If you cancel so faster that you twitch and drop a wall of elements with only 5% of the animation playing, the wall should only do 5% of its normal damage. Bottom line: animation canceling is an unintended exploit, a cancer that the devs have not only negligently tolerated, but actively fed by balancing and adjusting mechanics around the playstyle of exploiters.

How about we quit suggesting stupid things.

Zoltan_117

Fix it, even if we do not PVP we are forced to play with this retardedness to max our dps in PVE.