Pvp need campaign faction lock?

RABIDxWOLVERINE

Yes

I like the timer idea but faction swapping should be limited in some capacity.

Its called Loyalty people pick a side and fight....

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Yes

RABIDxWOLVERINE wrote: »

I like the timer idea but faction swapping should be limited in some capacity.

Its called Loyalty people pick a side and fight....

Its beyond loyalty at this point, some people don't even play the objectives. The reason DC has won so many campaigns on PC NA is that all the multi-faction ball group no-skill noob farmers are on EP or AD or both. All the while, loosely associated DC pugs take keep after keep, resource after resource and keep the Alliance score up.

Take a look some time and the AP gained discrepancy between EP/AD and DC. DC will have more campaign points but the emperor leaderboard for AD/EP will show a huge gap in AP gained over DC when looking at the top AP gainers.

This is because while running around in a no-skill blobspam group may give you a ton of AP, it doesn't win campaigns. I'm fine with that. Let the blobspammers farm, I'll take my first place campaign rewards on all my DC toons when the campaign ends.

Swaggerfall Brovenant for life. Down with multi-faction blobspam cancer .

idk

No

The poll is meaningless. It is not statically sound is the reason why. Sampling error issues. Even Zos knows that.

More importantly though. Zos removed the faction lock on campaigns because of the problems it caused early in the game. They will not be bringing it back because no one has actually quantified anything suggesting it actually is detrimental to the game. Merely saying you saw a few people jump faction does not provide anything meaningful.

WeyounTM

Yes

Maybe don't put up locks but give out real loyalty rewards in some fashion. Something you can only get when you stick to one faction on any given campaign. That cant be to hard and people need incentive most of the time.
I have witnessed a lot of swapping to the dominant faction and it has gotten worse the last couple of months. I wonder if it is a bit related to the fact that when you can farm easy AP....you will get a lot of bags....and hence transmutation geodes a plenty.
Next week that reason will be gone, but again...there should be some special rewards for those who feel loyal to their faction and their team/friends.

Jake1576

Yes

geonsocal wrote: »

i vote for a 24, 12, or 2 hour timer for faction swapping...

I respectfully disagree lol I wished there was faction lock until the duration of the campaign is over a person is playing in then the person should be allowed to switch just my opinion tho

Azurya

Yes

let´s dream it possible!

leeux

Yes

Are team players (football, basket, any official team sports) allowed to switch teams in between seasons? Or are they allowed to switch just at specified times in the year, and then they're locked for the team they sign on?

Rhetorical question, I know.

But why should ESO, that has a competitive leader-board that grants rewards upon completion, be any different? (the fact that the rewards are trash is a non-issue, because they used not to be trash, and the could very well not be trash anymore, one day.)

EDIT: grammar >:(

CapuchinSeven

Yes

Pick a side for the duration, stick to it. The "I want to play with friends" arguement doesn't cut it.

A_G_G_R_O

Yes

For teh Queen!

Venom4You

No

lets be honest. how are campaigns won? in off-hours also known as night and morning capping. on vivec EU, AD has probably almost won every campaign in over 2 years because one specific group captures the whole map in off hours every freaking day. during the day, all factions basically have large giga zergs nowadays. most of the time these zergs clash on 1, 2 maximum 3 locations on the map. so what does alliance swapping even matter? if some zerger runs in this 100 man faction zerg or in that 100 man faction zerg - who dares to care.
the only people who would be really effected by a faction lock are high end raid groups and small scalers who like to play actually on the LEAST DOMINANT faction which currently doesn't own many keeps. according to day time, location and playstyle that differs quite a bit. Faction locks could for example prevent us from challenging an opposing guild team in a gvg because it would normally play the same faction.
basically small scalers and high end raid groups alike like to avoid their own PUGs in order to get more challenging fights and make better ap - but also, actually indirectly support the least dominant faction by binding huge amounts of triggered enemies so others can take keeps. sounds good for balance, doesn't it? with that in mind - who needs a faction lock? noone except people who want to force faction pride onto pvpers who only care for good pvp instead of pvdoor in off hours (which wins campaigns). the occasional casual zerger swapping faction during the day has no remarkable impact on anything in an environment where every alliance runs faction zergs.

Anrose

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Pick a side for the duration, stick to it. The "I want to play with friends" arguement doesn't cut it.

Yeah! The playing a game with friends argument just isn’t good enough around here!

/s

riVALry9

Yes

There is already a timer on how often you can switch home campaigns, the same should be done for swapping factions. I would be in favor of it simply being on a campaign basis (If I queue into Vivec on a red, I cannot queue into that campaign on any other alliance until the campaign ends, but I could still queue into any other campaign on yellow or blue). I’m sure some people will consider 30 days to be too long, so realistically I would suggest a 48 or 72 hour minimum time limit.

Sevn

No

I'd vote yes just to see how much the pvp population diminishes and who gets blamed for it.

ColoursYouHave

No

leeux wrote: »

Are team players (football, basket, any official team sports) allowed to switch teams in between seasons? Or are they allowed to switch just at specified times in the year, and then they're locked for the team they sign on?

Rhetorical question, I know.

But why should ESO, that has a competitive leader-board that grants rewards upon completion, be any different? (the fact that the rewards are trash is a non-issue, because they used not to be trash, and the could very well not be trash anymore, one day.)

EDIT: grammar >:(

That is a very poor analogy. Professional sports players are under contract. Even then they commonly switch teams midseason when traded or released from a roster.

WeyounTM

Yes

PC-EU Vivec....6:30 AM Sunday....

approx 40+ "AD" player turn the map "yellow"....most of them don't even bother to put up siege or repair. Faction swapping and bankable AP has turned this into a hillarious AP leeching game mode. And the transmutation geode thingy isnt helping either.

Sevn

No

What I don't understand is Zos forces players to pvp for a variety of reasons, do you all really think these players give a damn about loyalty or the outcome of the campaign for that matter?

You can't sit back and tell players who didn't even want to pvp to suck it up and pvp for a couple of hours to get whatever it is they need from pvp and then turn around and get mad that they'll do whatever is necessary to speed up that process, including faction hopping.

For many I'm sure entering cyrodiil is simply a means to an end, nothing more, nothing less.

CapuchinSeven

Yes

Pick a side for the duration, stick to it. The "I want to play with friends" arguement doesn't cut it.

Anrose wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Pick a side for the duration, stick to it. The "I want to play with friends" arguement doesn't cut it.

Yeah! The playing a game with friends argument just isn’t good enough around here!

/s

No actaully it isn't. Faction swaping and AP leaching is a thing, if you want to play with your friends, start the campign with them and then have the guramba to stick at it until it's completed.

Dutchessx

No

To begin with this is a game so playing with friends is a legitimate argument. My second point is if you only like to play no cp there is only 1 option. My third point is there are nights/days where 1 faction is dominant on a server if that happens on multiple servers if you want to pvp then you sort of have to change factions from time to time. My fourth point is the population is to small for more servers than what we have & therefore not enough servers for 1 home & 1 guest for a person who has all 3 factions.

FearlessOne_2014

Yes

Now there are a bunch of DC kids. In the DLC content that go on your faction with you in IC. Watch you grind loads of stone. Switch to their DC characters that can pull the bosses in a room and burn 2.5m or more HP bosses in like less then 30secs, SOLO btw. Tank a group of 10 of you's while at the same time one shotting your members one by one. Like they are ZEUS almighty. Al your members are in gold CP 160 gear with max CPs. And don't give me that oh stop being mad, because he is better then you. Because I do know the way to easily duplicate that same power, they are imposing against us.


So yes at least make Imperial City faction locked. Can't believe I paid for a service that allows these players make obsolete.

If you don't believe me about what I've said above. Then i challenge you guys to spend 2 to 4 hours in IC districts any days of the week. And you too will see all that I've described above.

It is simply too much. And in my opinion worthy of a perma ban.

Normally I wouldn't care but since I am now losing stones, gold, and time, in DLC content. I am more or less demanding that @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno at least do a undercover investigation of the situation inside IC.

All the best!

LeagueTroll

Yes

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Now there are a bunch of DC kids. In the DLC content that go on your faction with you in IC. Watch you grind loads of stone. Switch to their DC characters that can pull the bosses in a room and burn 2.5m or more HP bosses in like less then 30secs, SOLO btw. Tank a group of 10 of you's while at the same time one shotting your members one by one. Like they are ZEUS almighty. Al your members are in gold CP 160 gear with max CPs. And don't give me that oh stop being mad, because he is better then you. Because I do know the way to easily duplicate that same power, they are imposing against us.


So yes at least make Imperial City faction locked. Can't believe I paid for a service that allows these players make obsolete.

If you don't believe me about what I've said above. Then i challenge you guys to spend 2 to 4 hours in IC districts any days of the week. And you too will see all that I've described above.

It is simply too much. And in my opinion worthy of a perma ban.

Normally I wouldn't care but since I am now losing stones, gold, and time, in DLC content. I am more or less demanding that @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno at least do a undercover investigation of the situation inside IC.

All the best!

Dirty cheaters actually farm ic?

Beardimus

Yes

I'm amazed the defense of not locking, but in my other thread some ok arguments where put up. I still want locking by campaign personally even with a timer.

It's ruining the game.

I pit this convo in ESO discord and was amazed that most arent fussed by it, saying they have given up on the state that PvP is or if you can't beat it join it lol.

It amazes me.

We all invest so must time and effort into this game, to not have the drive to fix nefarious behaviors astounds me.

@ZOS_GinaBruno locking may not be the answer but a stance or at least a view to improving honorable play in Cyro would be cool

CapuchinSeven

Yes

Dutchessx wrote: »

To begin with this is a game so playing with friends is a legitimate argument.

No, sorry that isn't a legitimate arguement because it's utterly invalid.

No one is saying you can't play with your friends and you can you're are free to change when ever you like just AFTER the campign is finished.

Marginis

No

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

To begin with this is a game so playing with friends is a legitimate argument.

No, sorry that isn't a legitimate arguement because it's utterly invalid.

No one is saying you can't play with your friends and you can you're are free to change when ever you like just AFTER the campign is finished.

The argument is invalid because it's invalid? Right.

There's a reason that ZOS changed the game to One Tamriel - because playing with friends is important. We should try to make the game more accessible, not less. I mean, the whole point of ESO is to be Elder Scrolls that you can play with friends. Now I agree, there is an annoyance with people gaming [exploiting] the PVP system. However, that does not justify, at least in my opinion, limiting players who are more casual, or more social, or who aren't PVP focused, in that way or to that extent. There are other, significantly better solutions, to what I can see, than locking factions [at all].

CapuchinSeven

Yes

Marginis wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

To begin with this is a game so playing with friends is a legitimate argument.

No, sorry that isn't a legitimate arguement because it's utterly invalid.

No one is saying you can't play with your friends and you can you're are free to change when ever you like just AFTER the campign is finished.

The argument is invalid because it's invalid? Right.

There's a reason that ZOS changed the game to One Tamriel - because playing with friends is important. We should try to make the game more accessible, not less. I mean, the whole point of ESO is to be Elder Scrolls that you can play with friends. Now I agree, there is an annoyance with people gaming [exploiting] the PVP system. However, that does not justify, at least in my opinion, limiting players who are more casual, or more social, or who aren't PVP focused, in that way or to that extent. There are other, significantly better solutions, to what I can see, than locking factions [at all].

"I want to play with my friends" isn't a trump all argument AND because you can play with your friends is utterly invalid anyway. If you want to play with your friends then join with your friends, no one is stopping you, but then you are ALL locked to that faction for the length of that game.

PVP is a competitive game, if you join a battleground and decide to swap sides half way through it would totally imbalance the game, just because a campaign lasts longer doesn't change that. If you want to play with your friends then join with them, no one is saying you can't play with your friends in battlegrounds just because you can't swap sides half way through.

FearlessOne_2014

Yes

LeagueTroll wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Now there are a bunch of DC kids. In the DLC content that go on your faction with you in IC. Watch you grind loads of stone. Switch to their DC characters that can pull the bosses in a room and burn 2.5m or more HP bosses in like less then 30secs, SOLO btw. Tank a group of 10 of you's while at the same time one shotting your members one by one. Like they are ZEUS almighty. Al your members are in gold CP 160 gear with max CPs. And don't give me that oh stop being mad, because he is better then you. Because I do know the way to easily duplicate that same power, they are imposing against us.


So yes at least make Imperial City faction locked. Can't believe I paid for a service that allows these players make obsolete.

If you don't believe me about what I've said above. Then i challenge you guys to spend 2 to 4 hours in IC districts any days of the week. And you too will see all that I've described above.

It is simply too much. And in my opinion worthy of a perma ban.

Normally I wouldn't care but since I am now losing stones, gold, and time, in DLC content. I am more or less demanding that @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno at least do a undercover investigation of the situation inside IC.

All the best!

Dirty cheaters actually farm ic?

I'm not going to say they are cheating yet. I leave that decision up to ZOS. However it's super suspect in the least bit.

Far as the IC farm. Depending on luck under normal conditions, not the ones I've previously described. With a group of 6 players boss farming the districts. Can yield you 30k to 600k depending on what drops on top of 4 x Stone multiplier.

How ever hypothetically speaking, you was to cheat in IC. Not only would you grind bosses much faster Solo, then groups of 6 with full grind setups. But you would also be able to take half of whatever they've farmed as well. With no risk of losing yours.

Going beyond that however into hard reality. You can use a character in one faction to farm and track that groups movement from with-in. Then when said group has farmed with you for hours and have around 80k stones/member. You can then switch to another character in another faction. Come down their with yourself of a buddy and since you already now where they are going. Can just kill them with a Stealth gank! Make off with 100,000s of stones for almost little effort, while at the same time farming tears.

Which is why I am demanding that ZOS at the bare minimal. Either campaign faction lock IC. Or just remove the penalty from PvP death. As you can pretty much be kill 3 minutes later by someone in your own faction. Or it should just be a banable offense.

I don't think I'm asking for much.

Beardimus

Yes

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

To begin with this is a game so playing with friends is a legitimate argument.

No, sorry that isn't a legitimate arguement because it's utterly invalid.

No one is saying you can't play with your friends and you can you're are free to change when ever you like just AFTER the campign is finished.

The argument is invalid because it's invalid? Right.

There's a reason that ZOS changed the game to One Tamriel - because playing with friends is important. We should try to make the game more accessible, not less. I mean, the whole point of ESO is to be Elder Scrolls that you can play with friends. Now I agree, there is an annoyance with people gaming [exploiting] the PVP system. However, that does not justify, at least in my opinion, limiting players who are more casual, or more social, or who aren't PVP focused, in that way or to that extent. There are other, significantly better solutions, to what I can see, than locking factions [at all].

"I want to play with my friends" isn't a trump all argument AND because you can play with your friends is utterly invalid anyway. If you want to play with your friends then join with your friends, no one is stopping you, but then you are ALL locked to that faction for the length of that game.

PVP is a competitive game, if you join a battleground and decide to swap sides half way through it would totally imbalance the game, just because a campaign lasts longer doesn't change that. If you want to play with your friends then join with them, no one is saying you can't play with your friends in battlegrounds just because you can't swap sides half way through.

Spot on.
Honestly I'm surprised this is even a debate, switching sides mid campaign doesn't lead to anything good. I'm amazed the portions of the community that defend it. On discord it was even worse, people were promoting it lol.

I see no reason at all why a temporary lock cant be turned on. say 48hrs - a good middle ground. I'd still prefer a full lock - at least on the quiet campagins Sotha / Shor. Let the cheats have Vivec.

Marginis

No

Beardimus wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

To begin with this is a game so playing with friends is a legitimate argument.

No, sorry that isn't a legitimate arguement because it's utterly invalid.

No one is saying you can't play with your friends and you can you're are free to change when ever you like just AFTER the campign is finished.

The argument is invalid because it's invalid? Right.

There's a reason that ZOS changed the game to One Tamriel - because playing with friends is important. We should try to make the game more accessible, not less. I mean, the whole point of ESO is to be Elder Scrolls that you can play with friends. Now I agree, there is an annoyance with people gaming [exploiting] the PVP system. However, that does not justify, at least in my opinion, limiting players who are more casual, or more social, or who aren't PVP focused, in that way or to that extent. There are other, significantly better solutions, to what I can see, than locking factions [at all].

"I want to play with my friends" isn't a trump all argument AND because you can play with your friends is utterly invalid anyway. If you want to play with your friends then join with your friends, no one is stopping you, but then you are ALL locked to that faction for the length of that game.

PVP is a competitive game, if you join a battleground and decide to swap sides half way through it would totally imbalance the game, just because a campaign lasts longer doesn't change that. If you want to play with your friends then join with them, no one is saying you can't play with your friends in battlegrounds just because you can't swap sides half way through.

Spot on.
Honestly I'm surprised this is even a debate, switching sides mid campaign doesn't lead to anything good. I'm amazed the portions of the community that defend it. On discord it was even worse, people were promoting it lol.

I see no reason at all why a temporary lock cant be turned on. say 48hrs - a good middle ground. I'd still prefer a full lock - at least on the quiet campagins Sotha / Shor. Let the cheats have Vivec.

The reason you can't understand is because you're limiting yourself to a PVP focused mindset. Imagine, just for a moment, that PVP isn't your focus. That you want to go into Cyrodiil to get skyshards, or don't play PVP often, but you want to play with your DC friends, yet you were just on with some AD friends (I'd imagine this would happen even more if a special event was going on, like when I got my gold jewelry during Midyear Mayhem (I think that's what it was)). Now, you can argue that faction locking is necessary enough to warrant making PVP less accessible, but without evidence or substantiation you cannot make a reasonable argument that "playing with friends" is an invalid argument. I agree, it's not a trump-all argument, but if you want to dismiss it, at least give a line of logic, instead of just saying "I'm right because I said so".

CapuchinSeven

Yes

Marginis wrote: »

The reason you can't understand is because you're limiting yourself to a PVP focused mindset.

Right so basically the point we've now dropped to is that PVPers are being too PVP minded if they want to control the balance of PVP and avoid abuse of the PVP system on a map where the entire point is to engage in PVP (or risk engagement in PVP if you wish to gather something like Skyshards) because someone might want to easy mode Skyshards that are locked behind another factions gate.

But apparently it's PVPers making the argument "because I said so".

Marginis

No

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

The reason you can't understand is because you're limiting yourself to a PVP focused mindset.

Right so basically the point we've now dropped to is that PVPers are being too PVP minded if they want to control the balance of PVP and avoid abuse of the PVP system on a map where the entire point is to engage in PVP (or risk engagement in PVP if you wish to gather something like Skyshards) because someone might want to easy mode Skyshards that are locked behind another factions gate.

But apparently it's PVPers making the argument "because I said so".

It's not that PVPers are being "too PVP minded", rather that the game as a whole must be taken into consideration. If ZOS only cared about PVP, PVEers would be upset, and if ZOS only focused on PVE, PVPers would be upset. If we're looking at PVP only, faction locks make perfect sense, but if we're not exclusively looking at PVP, faction locks cause a lot of issues.

As far as "easy mode" skyshards, you can switch to different characters - you cannot as of now change a character's faction. So getting all the skyshards on one character is not made easier or harder by faction locks. My point was that there are other reasons that players go into PVP than to just cheat the system. We should not punish players who do not exploit in order to control those who do, specifically because there are legitimate reasons to go into Cyrodiil other than to PVP. If your issue is with that, then we should solve that first - not just impose a "fix" that will worsen those issues.

In regards to your last bit - I wasn't referring to PVPers, I was referring specifically to you, here:

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

No, sorry that isn't a legitimate arguement because it's utterly invalid.

and here:

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

"I want to play with my friends" isn't a trump all argument AND because you can play with your friends is utterly invalid anyway.

This is circular logic. You're saying my argument is invalid, and illegitimate, and illegitimate because it's invalid. But you use no evidence or reasoning to explain how it's invalid, outside of that it's illegitimate, which you can only reach because of the supposed invalidity. So it's invalid because it's illegitimate, and it's illegitimate because it's invalid? Come on now, this is textbook circular logic.

But back to topic, yes, there's a problem with PVP. I recognize and agree with that. Understand that. I simply don't think that faction locks are a good solution, because of all the other problems faction locking would cause. There are other solutions; better solutions. It's not that I don't think we should solve the problems PVPers are facing, or that I don't think PVP should have the consideration that PVE does. It's really quite the opposite. I just also care about people who are not hardcore PVPers.

geonsocal

No

Marginis wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

The reason you can't understand is because you're limiting yourself to a PVP focused mindset.

Right so basically the point we've now dropped to is that PVPers are being too PVP minded if they want to control the balance of PVP and avoid abuse of the PVP system on a map where the entire point is to engage in PVP (or risk engagement in PVP if you wish to gather something like Skyshards) because someone might want to easy mode Skyshards that are locked behind another factions gate.

But apparently it's PVPers making the argument "because I said so".

It's not that PVPers are being "too PVP minded", rather that the game as a whole must be taken into consideration. If ZOS only cared about PVP, PVEers would be upset, and if ZOS only focused on PVE, PVPers would be upset. If we're looking at PVP only, faction locks make perfect sense, but if we're not exclusively looking at PVP, faction locks cause a lot of issues.

As far as "easy mode" skyshards, you can switch to different characters - you cannot as of now change a character's faction. So getting all the skyshards on one character is not made easier or harder by faction locks. My point was that there are other reasons that players go into PVP than to just cheat the system. We should not punish players who do not exploit in order to control those who do, specifically because there are legitimate reasons to go into Cyrodiil other than to PVP. If your issue is with that, then we should solve that first - not just impose a "fix" that will worsen those issues.

In regards to your last bit - I wasn't referring to PVPers, I was referring specifically to you, here:

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

No, sorry that isn't a legitimate arguement because it's utterly invalid.

and here:

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

"I want to play with my friends" isn't a trump all argument AND because you can play with your friends is utterly invalid anyway.

This is circular logic. You're saying my argument is invalid, and illegitimate, and illegitimate because it's invalid. But you use no evidence or reasoning to explain how it's invalid, outside of that it's illegitimate, which you can only reach because of the supposed invalidity. So it's invalid because it's illegitimate, and it's illegitimate because it's invalid? Come on now, this is textbook circular logic.

But back to topic, yes, there's a problem with PVP. I recognize and agree with that. Understand that. I simply don't think that faction locks are a good solution, because of all the other problems faction locking would cause. There are other solutions; better solutions. It's not that I don't think we should solve the problems PVPers are facing, or that I don't think PVP should have the consideration that PVE does. It's really quite the opposite. I just also care about people who are not hardcore PVPers.