Werewolf Theorycrafting (PvP)

Aznox

I don't "aim" for max stamina as i consider weapon damage to be the superior stat for werewolf in current patch.
Max stamina when transformed : 35k (no CP) / 41k (CP)

Start with a good tanky build and gradually trade for more damage while staying confident with your ability to survive.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Im thinking about trying the pelinal/FurY bloodspawn Combo. Instead of running tristat food ill run blue food for Max magica and stamina. To compensate the healthy jewelry u see. Fury will jack up my damge and heals with pelinals

Chrlynsch

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

How much Max stam do you aim for as werewolf??? *only 6% extra max stam from race passive

My aim is 30k stam while in human form.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Because with the nerf of snares i find that i usually don't need barkskin as much as I use to need it and im looking for a replacement

Ritter

@Mangeli200194 Bloodspawn is considerably weaker in WW form, but standard quality in human form, of course. I'd always take Chudan over BS when looking for tank stats. Fury is way too unreliable, so go with Ravager or Truth if you want a lot of WD and heavy armor.

Ritter

@Aznox -- Did you ever upload gameplay videos? I want to peer review myself, lol

Aznox

@Ritter i probably have 30+ clips of werewolf on my drive i'm too lazy to edit and upload, but if you ask i'll try to find time ...

Ritter

@Aznox I hear that, haha. I'd love to see them (as would a few of my guild wolf bros)... You can upload raw footage if you want, just crop it so that matches/sessions are at least punctuated, if that makes sense. I feel like I have a lot to learn still, even though I have crazy 27-6-12 games a lot :P

Aznox

Here's a quick first upload : just a raw clip that does showcase my build damage and survival potential, rotations aren't perfect but most mechanics are visible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUjDhAnigb4&feature=youtu.be

IlCanis_LupuslI

I like FurY because im usually 1St row in combat and i usually stand in the ultibombs so my fury proccs very quickly. I usually get it procced to. 15 almost instantly.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Do the pet wolves from the packleader morph proc the poisoned status effect??? because i noticed that they proc some kind of poison dot on the people they attack... @Qbiken @Aznox @Chrlynsch

Ritter

@Aznox Nice gameplay segment. LMK if you put more up

Sharee

Ritter wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 Bloodspawn is considerably weaker in WW form, but standard quality in human form, of course. I'd always take Chudan over BS when looking for tank stats. Fury is way too unreliable, so go with Ravager or Truth if you want a lot of WD and heavy armor.

One thing about chudan i noticed: Wearing chudan passively gives you ~2500 more resistance than wearing two 1-pieces that give armor (e.g. pirate skeleton/lord warden).

However, with the latter, you can still boost your resistance with major resolve/ward, giving you ~2800 more resistance than chudan.

You can not cast ward in WW form of course, which means chudan will be better if you stay in WW form longer than 20 seconds (assuming you cast ward before transforming, and assuming no resist potion/warden buff in WW form), but PS/LW combo will be better in all other cases.

So unless you plan on staying in WW form for extended periods of time and with no outside sources of ward/resolve, i'd suggest giving the two 1-pieces a try.

Qbiken

Sharee wrote: »

Ritter wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 Bloodspawn is considerably weaker in WW form, but standard quality in human form, of course. I'd always take Chudan over BS when looking for tank stats. Fury is way too unreliable, so go with Ravager or Truth if you want a lot of WD and heavy armor.

One thing about chudan i noticed: Wearing chudan passively gives you ~2500 more resistance than wearing two 1-pieces that give armor (e.g. pirate skeleton/lord warden).

However, with the latter, you can still boost your resistance with major resolve/ward, giving you ~2800 more resistance than chudan.

You can not cast ward in WW form of course, which means chudan will be better if you stay in WW form longer than 20 seconds (assuming you cast ward before transforming, and assuming no resist potion/warden buff in WW form), but PS/LW combo will be better in all other cases.

So unless you plan on staying in WW form for extended periods of time and with no outside sources of ward/resolve, i'd suggest giving the two 1-pieces a try.

Also, if you have the luxury´of having a warden as support (that can provide Major ward/resolve through ice-fortress) you can ditch chudan for something else

IlCanis_LupuslI

Do the pet wolves from the packleader morph proc the poisoned status effect??? because i noticed that they proc some kind of poison dot on the people they attack... @Qbiken @Aznox @Chrlynsch

Qbiken

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Do the pet wolves from the packleader morph proc the poisoned status effect??? because i noticed that they proc some kind of poison dot on the people they attack... @Qbiken @Aznox @Chrlynsch

Re-morphed just to see if they do, and so far I haven´t managed to get the wolves to proc any status effect. They don´t see to be able to proc echantments or poisons either.

Chrlynsch

Qbiken wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Do the pet wolves from the packleader morph proc the poisoned status effect??? because i noticed that they proc some kind of poison dot on the people they attack... @Qbiken @Aznox @Chrlynsch

Re-morphed just to see if they do, and so far I haven´t managed to get the wolves to proc any status effect. They don´t see to be able to proc echantments or poisons either.

I am pretty sure wolves proc a snare.

Aztlan

I miss the days when the white wolf gave you more time in form.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Agreed im currently trying to find ANY good stuff with the white ww but im having a hard time. They procced a small poison dot i presumed it was the poisoned status effect, maby im wrong???

Aznox

There is only one situation where the White wolf could be worth choosing : if you use werewolf as a short duration ultimate to burst your opponent before going back to human, the loss in bleed damage could be compensated by the small companion wolfs eating abilities after being mistakenly targeted by your opponent.

For any kind of "perma-wolf" build where you need to spend time doing light attacks (not possible to spam howl for days), the berserker bleed damage is too good to pass.

Remember each light attack triggers a new tick of the bleed, so it ticks more than once per second when chaining light attacks.

Thraben

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Agreed im currently trying to find ANY good stuff with the white ww but im having a hard time. They procced a small poison dot i presumed it was the poisoned status effect, maby im wrong???

The 2 additional Dots can be usefull, though, to decrease the chance that the true baddies are purged.

Ritter

Aznox wrote: »

Remember each light attack triggers a new tick of the bleed, so it ticks more than once per second when chaining light attacks.

Can you elaborate on this?

Qbiken

Ritter wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Remember each light attack triggers a new tick of the bleed, so it ticks more than once per second when chaining light attacks.

Can you elaborate on this?

Basically, the bleed-dot from our light attacks is refreshed every time you do a new light attack on the target. All source of bleed-damage in this game (aside from those from specific sets) ticks once every 2-seconds. If you can time the light attacks, you can get two ticks of at once (aka the first tick from the first dot, and the first tick from the second dot when applied from a new light attack)

However, I´m not sure if these bleed dots will cancel itself out (that happens with the Twin-Blade and Blunt bleed). Where the bleed-damage will start of from a 0-tick (aka when applied) when refreshed, and therefore not doing any damage.

Ritter

@Qbiken ... I'm not going to count on that,the timing is a bit too tricky, but I'll take the extra damage when it comes!

Aznox

Basically what you should remember is that when you are spamming light attacks, the "X bleed damage over 8 seconds" from the ultimate tooltip is increased by quite a lot because you make it tick more than once per second.

Cronopoly

RoyJade wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I'm fairly certain they overwrote the additional Weapon Damage Scaling that WW Light Attacks had.

So, after some test I can confirm that. On a totally naked character (no cp, equipment, passives and only enough attribute outside of WW form to match the 0 attribute stamina of the WW form (10345 stamina in WW, tried 10289 and 10400 stam outside of WW), the damage of the light attack are exactly the same.
When I used a single handed gold weapon with no enchant 1335 (weapon damage in and out WW), the result were coherent with this conclusion.

For the actual numbers(non crit-crit) :

Bare fist

Humain, 10289 (10400) stamina :
Light : 295-443 (299-448)
Heavy : 459-689 (464-697)

Werewolf, 10345 stamina :
Light : 297-445
Heavy : 475-712 + 237-356 cleave damage

One handed

Humain, 10289 (10400) stamina :
Light : 697-1046 (701-1051)
Heavy : 1085-1628 (1090-1636)

Werewolf, 10345 stamina :
Light : 699-1048
Heavy : 1108-1678 + 559-838 cleave damage

Um the latest homogenized nerfs to LA may hurt...testing of course...

Qbiken

Aznox wrote: »

Ok i've run some quick math to know where such a change would get us with our LA/HA damage ...

... and it's seems maybe too big of a change for them to only change the ratio, they would probably tune down the coef too because a 42% increase (value for my example werewolf build, it would be around 100% for a petsorc build ...) would have a very big impact on the overall game balance.

Cronopoly wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I'm fairly certain they overwrote the additional Weapon Damage Scaling that WW Light Attacks had.

So, after some test I can confirm that. On a totally naked character (no cp, equipment, passives and only enough attribute outside of WW form to match the 0 attribute stamina of the WW form (10345 stamina in WW, tried 10289 and 10400 stam outside of WW), the damage of the light attack are exactly the same.
When I used a single handed gold weapon with no enchant 1335 (weapon damage in and out WW), the result were coherent with this conclusion.

For the actual numbers(non crit-crit) :

Bare fist

Humain, 10289 (10400) stamina :
Light : 295-443 (299-448)
Heavy : 459-689 (464-697)

Werewolf, 10345 stamina :
Light : 297-445
Heavy : 475-712 + 237-356 cleave damage

One handed

Humain, 10289 (10400) stamina :
Light : 697-1046 (701-1051)
Heavy : 1085-1628 (1090-1636)

Werewolf, 10345 stamina :
Light : 699-1048
Heavy : 1108-1678 + 559-838 cleave damage

Um the latest homogenized nerfs to LA may hurt...testing of course...

From this it seems like ZOS just replaced the weapon damage part of LA scaling with the scaling from max resource, when it obviously should be scaling of both.
@Avran_Sylt Does this seems the case or am I totally wrong here?

Avran_Sylt

@Qbiken

WW Live LA WD ratio is about 1:1.5 (50% increase)
Currently on PTS it has been lowered to a 1:1 ratio.

If that was intentional or an oversight is unknown.

Qbiken

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Qbiken

WW Live LA WD ratio is about 1:1.5 (50% increase)
Currently on PTS it has been lowered to a 1:1 ratio.

If that was intentional or an oversight is unknown.

I see, thanks for clarification. Hopefully this isn´t intended. Too bad ZOS haven´t made any statement about this yet. They can obviously make statements about certain sets malfunctioning (see the latest threads about bonepirate) so I hope ZOS investigate this, because if this is intended, it´s one of the most ridiculous nerf I´ve seen.

Ritter

@Qbiken @Avran_Sylt

I thought we expected the WD ratio to drop and the Stam ratio to increase? This is only really awful depending on the stam ratio change, no?