Werewolf Theorycrafting (PvP)

Datolite

It's kinda funny I am still a werewolf on my magplar cause I didn't feel like spending the reset skill pts fee to get rid of lycanthropy. There should be a debuff to human form imo, if only a small one.

Amdar_Godkiller

Aznox wrote: »

Do you guys have a source for the light attack change ? It's not in the recap i'v read.

Also i don't see the point of mixing enchants, if you think one is mathematically superior, why not triple it ?

damage done bonuses get weaker the more you stack in terms of percentage increased.

For example

My 100 damage punch gets a 20% increase to damage done, and this is a true 20% increase, so it now becomes 120 damage

I add another 20% damage done buff, which increases my damage not by 20% of 120, but rather by 20% of my unaugmented damage, so the actual percentage of damage I'm gaining is

140/120 = 1.167 = 116.7% = 16.7% more damage done

A third will put drop it to a little over 14.2% over the previous increase



Now buffs that add raw weapon damage or max resources, scale better with damage done bonuses. They work multiplicatively.

Most likely, 2 infused and 1 bloodthirst, or 1 infused with 2 bloodthirsts will scale best.

The tristat one's are also potentially good for us because 2 of them with 1 robust gives resources equal to 2 robust, 1 arcane, and 1 healthy.

The reason I'd roll with one cost reduction glyph (or rather why I may) is that it's nearly a 400 resource deduction, which is exceedingly powerful. It will probably get nerfed soon, I'm thinking.

Sharee

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Do you guys have a source for the light attack change ? It's not in the recap i'v read.

Also i don't see the point of mixing enchants, if you think one is mathematically superior, why not triple it ?

damage done bonuses get weaker the more you stack in terms of percentage increased.

For example

My 100 damage punch gets a 20% increase to damage done, and this is a true 20% increase, so it now becomes 120 damage

I add another 20% damage done buff, which increases my damage not by 20% of 120, but rather by 20% of my unaugmented damage, so the actual percentage of damage I'm gaining is

140/120 = 1.167 = 116.7% = 16.7% more damage done

A third will put drop it to a little over 14.2% over the previous increase

We don't know the new jewelry stats will work like that just yet tho. It is possible that identical-sourced percentage bonuses will simply be added together before being applied to the base value.

What i mean by identically-sourced is that all % bonuses come in the same form(from a jewelry trait), an identical buff that just gets stronger as you add more pieces, as opposed to the current various damage percentage bonuses that come from all over the place(and are applied in the way you described).

For example take the % cost reduction to roll dodge from wearing a piece of medium armor. The total cost reduction isn't applied to your roll cost piece by piece. Instead all % dodge roll reduction is added together, and only then is your roll cost reduced by that percentage. That's also an example of an identical-sourced bonus. Its possible the jewelry will work the same.

Amdar_Godkiller

Sharee wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Do you guys have a source for the light attack change ? It's not in the recap i'v read.

Also i don't see the point of mixing enchants, if you think one is mathematically superior, why not triple it ?

damage done bonuses get weaker the more you stack in terms of percentage increased.

For example

My 100 damage punch gets a 20% increase to damage done, and this is a true 20% increase, so it now becomes 120 damage

I add another 20% damage done buff, which increases my damage not by 20% of 120, but rather by 20% of my unaugmented damage, so the actual percentage of damage I'm gaining is

140/120 = 1.167 = 116.7% = 16.7% more damage done

A third will put drop it to a little over 14.2% over the previous increase

We don't know the new jewelry stats will work like that just yet tho. It is possible that identical-sourced percentage bonuses will simply be added together before being applied to the base value.

What i mean by identically-sourced is that all % bonuses come in the same form(from a jewelry trait), an identical buff that just gets stronger as you add more pieces, as opposed to the current various damage percentage bonuses that come from all over the place(and are applied in the way you described).

For example take the % cost reduction to roll dodge from wearing a piece of medium armor. The total cost reduction isn't applied to your roll cost piece by piece. Instead all % dodge roll reduction is added together, and only then is your roll cost reduced by that percentage. That's also an example of an identical-sourced bonus. Its possible the jewelry will work the same.

But with damage done increases, adding them together is exactly what we don't want, and that's exactly what I described. There is no reason to think it would work any other way.

Sharee

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Do you guys have a source for the light attack change ? It's not in the recap i'v read.

Also i don't see the point of mixing enchants, if you think one is mathematically superior, why not triple it ?

damage done bonuses get weaker the more you stack in terms of percentage increased.

For example

My 100 damage punch gets a 20% increase to damage done, and this is a true 20% increase, so it now becomes 120 damage

I add another 20% damage done buff, which increases my damage not by 20% of 120, but rather by 20% of my unaugmented damage, so the actual percentage of damage I'm gaining is

140/120 = 1.167 = 116.7% = 16.7% more damage done

A third will put drop it to a little over 14.2% over the previous increase

We don't know the new jewelry stats will work like that just yet tho. It is possible that identical-sourced percentage bonuses will simply be added together before being applied to the base value.

What i mean by identically-sourced is that all % bonuses come in the same form(from a jewelry trait), an identical buff that just gets stronger as you add more pieces, as opposed to the current various damage percentage bonuses that come from all over the place(and are applied in the way you described).

For example take the % cost reduction to roll dodge from wearing a piece of medium armor. The total cost reduction isn't applied to your roll cost piece by piece. Instead all % dodge roll reduction is added together, and only then is your roll cost reduced by that percentage. That's also an example of an identical-sourced bonus. Its possible the jewelry will work the same.

But with damage done increases, adding them together is exactly what we don't want, and that's exactly what I described. There is no reason to think it would work any other way.

Well, it works other way with some percentage bonuses. Those that all come from the same source, like that medium armor per-piece bonuses. Maybe percentage bonuses from jewelry will also count as "from the same source" - not three different bonuses, but the same bonus getting stronger as you add more pieces.

That's all i am saying, that it is possible, and we should wait and see what the PTS brings.

Aznox

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

damage done bonuses get weaker the more you stack in terms of percentage increased.

For example

My 100 damage punch gets a 20% increase to damage done, and this is a true 20% increase, so it now becomes 120 damage

I add another 20% damage done buff, which increases my damage not by 20% of 120, but rather by 20% of my unaugmented damage, so the actual percentage of damage I'm gaining is

140/120 = 1.167 = 116.7% = 16.7% more damage done

A third will put drop it to a little over 14.2% over the previous increase

I think you are giving too much value to the % and not enough to the raw numbers.

Let's says you have a choice between two buffs, you can pick three times, and duplicate buff are additive :
- 20% increase in damage done
- 20% decrease in damage received

let's take 1000 as the base value for damage done and damage received

You first decide that 200 increase in damage done is worth more to you than 200 decrease in damage received.

You stats are now 1000 damage received 1200 damage done.

For the second bonus, you now have the choice between 200 decrease in damage received and 200 increase in damage done. (20% of base)

You just made this exact decision the first time, why would you change you mind ? % values are irrelevant.

I think people are making this mistake because they fear the scenario where you have the choice between an additive % buff and a multiplicative/exclusive % buff, in this case yes it's possible to make a mathematically inferior choice. But it's not the case here, all buff we are presented are additive between themselves.

It's quite hard to explain so i'm going link the fist nice post i found on google, it's about Diablo 3 but it works just the same :
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/16780398459#post-10

I encourage anyone to read this.

Aznox

Edit :

I missed some parts of your post :

Now buffs that add raw weapon damage or max resources, scale better with damage done bonuses. They work multiplicatively.

Most likely, 2 infused and 1 bloodthirst, or 1 infused with 2 bloodthirsts will scale best.

The tristat one's are also potentially good for us because 2 of them with 1 robust gives resources equal to 2 robust, 1 arcane, and 1 healthy.

This is true, Bloodthirst and the stats are multiplicative/exclusive.

I made this oversight because i was only focused on infused and tri-stats.

I agree with you then.

The reason I'd roll with one cost reduction glyph (or rather why I may) is that it's nearly a 400 resource deduction, which is exceedingly powerful. It will probably get nerfed soon, I'm thinking.

my point still stands on this though

Nelson_Rebel

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

It's kinda funny I am still a werewolf on my magplar cause I didn't feel like spending the reset skill pts fee to get rid of lycanthropy. There should be a debuff to human form imo, if only a small one.

Sure, give werewolves in human form a debuff.


Just also make sure they give us that Stam recovery 100% while human form while you're at it.


That's how this works

Nelson_Rebel

Can anyone give me a little info into HOW pelinials actually calculat's its stat increase?



"Your weapon and spell damage both become the highest of two values"


Does slightly confuse me. Apologies I was an awful algebra student so if you can make it simple mathematics I would appreciate it

Lets say my Weapon damage in Werewolf form is 4k with a Salvation and Seventh legion setup

Sharee

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Can anyone give me a little info into HOW pelinials actually calculat's its stat increase?



"Your weapon and spell damage both become the highest of two values"


Does slightly confuse me. Apologies I was an awful algebra student so if you can make it simple mathematics I would appreciate it

Lets say my Weapon damage in Werewolf form is 4k with a Salvation and Seventh legion setup

The game looks at which of the two (weapon damage, spell damage) is higher, then simply ignores all calculations for the lesser one, and instead sets it to be equal to the greater one.

Nelson_Rebel

Sharee wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Can anyone give me a little info into HOW pelinials actually calculat's its stat increase?



"Your weapon and spell damage both become the highest of two values"


Does slightly confuse me. Apologies I was an awful algebra student so if you can make it simple mathematics I would appreciate it

Lets say my Weapon damage in Werewolf form is 4k with a Salvation and Seventh legion setup

The game looks at which of the two (weapon damage, spell damage) is higher, then simply ignores all calculations for the lesser one, and instead sets it to be equal to the greater one.

So my weapon and spell damage become 4k? in werewold form at least.


That is an impressive buff. Looks like I'll be ditching salvation come summerset

Amdar_Godkiller

Sharee wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Do you guys have a source for the light attack change ? It's not in the recap i'v read.

Also i don't see the point of mixing enchants, if you think one is mathematically superior, why not triple it ?

damage done bonuses get weaker the more you stack in terms of percentage increased.

For example

My 100 damage punch gets a 20% increase to damage done, and this is a true 20% increase, so it now becomes 120 damage

I add another 20% damage done buff, which increases my damage not by 20% of 120, but rather by 20% of my unaugmented damage, so the actual percentage of damage I'm gaining is

140/120 = 1.167 = 116.7% = 16.7% more damage done

A third will put drop it to a little over 14.2% over the previous increase

We don't know the new jewelry stats will work like that just yet tho. It is possible that identical-sourced percentage bonuses will simply be added together before being applied to the base value.

What i mean by identically-sourced is that all % bonuses come in the same form(from a jewelry trait), an identical buff that just gets stronger as you add more pieces, as opposed to the current various damage percentage bonuses that come from all over the place(and are applied in the way you described).

For example take the % cost reduction to roll dodge from wearing a piece of medium armor. The total cost reduction isn't applied to your roll cost piece by piece. Instead all % dodge roll reduction is added together, and only then is your roll cost reduced by that percentage. That's also an example of an identical-sourced bonus. Its possible the jewelry will work the same.

But with damage done increases, adding them together is exactly what we don't want, and that's exactly what I described. There is no reason to think it would work any other way.

Well, it works other way with some percentage bonuses. Those that all come from the same source, like that medium armor per-piece bonuses. Maybe percentage bonuses from jewelry will also count as "from the same source" - not three different bonuses, but the same bonus getting stronger as you add more pieces.

That's all i am saying, that it is possible, and we should wait and see what the PTS brings.

Right because crit chance is an actual base stat. (Although technically even crit chance has diminishing returns; the more you have the less you'll get from adding more).

This is a post-damage calculation modifier, though like mighty and elemental defender.

Sharee

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Can anyone give me a little info into HOW pelinials actually calculat's its stat increase?



"Your weapon and spell damage both become the highest of two values"


Does slightly confuse me. Apologies I was an awful algebra student so if you can make it simple mathematics I would appreciate it

Lets say my Weapon damage in Werewolf form is 4k with a Salvation and Seventh legion setup

The game looks at which of the two (weapon damage, spell damage) is higher, then simply ignores all calculations for the lesser one, and instead sets it to be equal to the greater one.

So my weapon and spell damage become 4k? in werewold form at least.


That is an impressive buff. Looks like I'll be ditching salvation come summerset

Yep it's impressive, but give it a test ride before committing. I personally do not like it because while it makes your heal awesome, it does little to ensure you have the resources to cast it. So you need to pair it with a resource set, which results in low damage(well, relatively) for your WW.

I have tried many combinations for what i like to call my "professional werewolf", and i feel the salvation/shacklebreaker combo is the best compromise between damage, survivability and resource management.

Aznox

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

(Although technically even crit chance has diminishing returns; the more you have the less you'll get from adding more).

Could you elaborate on this ?

1000 DPS
50% Crit damage.

Going from 0% to 10% Crit chance :
1000 DPS -> 1050 DPS
50 DPS gain

Going from 90% to 100% Crit chance :
1450 DPS -> 1500 DPS
50 DPS gain

Are you going to tell me about the % of augmentation relative to the DPS value ? Because that's not what i call diminishing returns.

Sharee

Interesting thing i learned. Normally you don't want to use piercing howl against a DK with his wings up, because it is a projectile and will get reflected right back at you(few Dk's know this, btw).

However, you can use it to your advantage if you dodge roll right after the piercing howl, dodging the reflected projectile, and thus putting the DK off balance(tactician passive), then following with a heavy attack that both stuns the DK and refunds you the resources you just spent to pull off that little stunt

Chrlynsch

Sharee wrote: »

Interesting thing i learned. Normally you don't want to use piercing howl against a DK with his wings up, because it is a projectile and will get reflected right back at you(few Dk's know this, btw).

However, you can use it to your advantage if you dodge roll right after the piercing howl, dodging the reflected projectile, and thus putting the DK off balance(tactician passive), then following with a heavy attack that both stuns the DK and refunds you the resources you just spent to pull off that little stunt

Do a barrel roll! Don't forget that roll dodge cost reduction passive from medium armor doesn't transfer over.

Sharee

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Interesting thing i learned. Normally you don't want to use piercing howl against a DK with his wings up, because it is a projectile and will get reflected right back at you(few Dk's know this, btw).

However, you can use it to your advantage if you dodge roll right after the piercing howl, dodging the reflected projectile, and thus putting the DK off balance(tactician passive), then following with a heavy attack that both stuns the DK and refunds you the resources you just spent to pull off that little stunt

Do a barrel roll! Don't forget that roll dodge cost reduction passive from medium armor doesn't transfer over.

No issue here - i'm mostly in heavy these days

Amdar_Godkiller

Aznox wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

(Although technically even crit chance has diminishing returns; the more you have the less you'll get from adding more).

Could you elaborate on this ?

1000 DPS
50% Crit damage.

Going from 0% to 10% Crit chance :
1000 DPS -> 1050 DPS
50 DPS gain

Going from 90% to 100% Crit chance :
1450 DPS -> 1500 DPS
50 DPS gain

Are you going to tell me about the % of augmentation relative to the DPS value ? Because that's not what i call diminishing returns.

Well that's why I said "technically".

In terms of flat damage added it's constant, but yes the damage done percentage you gain from adding more critical chance decreases as your crit chance increases.

With base crit (10%) your average 1K attack will be

1500 x .1 + 1000 x .9 = 1050

Each additional 10% adds 50 more damage, which at first represents a 4.7% increase to damage done. Going from max 90% crit chance to 100% will increase your damage by 50 as well, but it's only 3.4% more damage from where you were without it.


Call it what you want. Scaling is important to understand.

Amdar_Godkiller

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Interesting thing i learned. Normally you don't want to use piercing howl against a DK with his wings up, because it is a projectile and will get reflected right back at you(few Dk's know this, btw).

However, you can use it to your advantage if you dodge roll right after the piercing howl, dodging the reflected projectile, and thus putting the DK off balance(tactician passive), then following with a heavy attack that both stuns the DK and refunds you the resources you just spent to pull off that little stunt

Do a barrel roll! Don't forget that roll dodge cost reduction passive from medium armor doesn't transfer over.

It doesn't? Why wouldn't it, if the weapon damage increase does?

Chrlynsch

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Interesting thing i learned. Normally you don't want to use piercing howl against a DK with his wings up, because it is a projectile and will get reflected right back at you(few Dk's know this, btw).

However, you can use it to your advantage if you dodge roll right after the piercing howl, dodging the reflected projectile, and thus putting the DK off balance(tactician passive), then following with a heavy attack that both stuns the DK and refunds you the resources you just spent to pull off that little stunt

Do a barrel roll! Don't forget that roll dodge cost reduction passive from medium armor doesn't transfer over.

It doesn't? Why wouldn't it, if the weapon damage increase does?

Because ZOS my friend.

Chrlynsch

Summerset is on the way.

Infused weapon damage jewelry numbers and you (Werewolf Math)... Subject to change.

Buffs include: Major Brutality, Hircine's Rage, Savage Strength 2/2. (+48%)

Base Glyph: 174

Werewolf
Buffed: 257.52
Infused Buffed: 412.032
Increase on one infused: 154.512
Increase on two infused: 309.024
Increase on three infused: 463.536

Templar Werewolf (+6%)
Buffed: 267.96
Infused buffed: 428.737
Increase on one infused: 160.776
Increase on two infused: 309.024
Increase on three infused: 482.328


Medium Armor Werewolf (+12%)
Buffed: 278.4
Infused buffed: 445.44
Increase on one infused: 167.04
Increase on two infused: 334.08
Increase on three infused: 501.13

Medium Armor Templar Werewolf (+18%)
Buffed: 288.84
Infused Buffed: 462.144
Increase on one infused: 173.304
Increase on two infused: 346.608
Increase on three infused: 519.912

Sharee

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Summerset is on the way.

Infused weapon damage jewelry numbers and you (Werewolf Math)... Subject to change.

Buffs include: Major Brutality, Hircine's Rage, Savage Strength 2/2. (+48%)

Base Glyph: 174

Werewolf
Buffed: 257.52
Infused Buffed: 412.032
Increase on one infused: 154.512
Increase on two infused: 309.024
Increase on three infused: 463.536

Templar Werewolf (+6%)
Buffed: 267.96
Infused buffed: 428.737
Increase on one infused: 160.776
Increase on two infused: 309.024
Increase on three infused: 482.328


Medium Armor Werewolf (+12%)
Buffed: 278.4
Infused buffed: 445.44
Increase on one infused: 167.04
Increase on two infused: 334.08
Increase on three infused: 501.13

Medium Armor Templar Werewolf (+18%)
Buffed: 288.84
Infused Buffed: 462.144
Increase on one infused: 173.304
Increase on two infused: 346.608
Increase on three infused: 519.912

Just keep in mind that the actual damage difference between infused and normal(stamina) jewelry will be less, because light attacks are becoming a bigger part of the damage output (for everyone, not just WW), and they now scale with maximum stamina, so there is a bit of an opportunity cost associated with getting infused jewelry instead of stamina jewelry.

I guess the infused jewelry will still pull ahead, just not by as much as it may seem.

Chrlynsch

Sharee wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Summerset is on the way.

Infused weapon damage jewelry numbers and you (Werewolf Math)... Subject to change.

Buffs include: Major Brutality, Hircine's Rage, Savage Strength 2/2. (+48%)

Base Glyph: 174

Werewolf
Buffed: 257.52
Infused Buffed: 412.032
Increase on one infused: 154.512
Increase on two infused: 309.024
Increase on three infused: 463.536

Templar Werewolf (+6%)
Buffed: 267.96
Infused buffed: 428.737
Increase on one infused: 160.776
Increase on two infused: 309.024
Increase on three infused: 482.328


Medium Armor Werewolf (+12%)
Buffed: 278.4
Infused buffed: 445.44
Increase on one infused: 167.04
Increase on two infused: 334.08
Increase on three infused: 501.13

Medium Armor Templar Werewolf (+18%)
Buffed: 288.84
Infused Buffed: 462.144
Increase on one infused: 173.304
Increase on two infused: 346.608
Increase on three infused: 519.912

Just keep in mind that the actual damage difference between infused and normal(stamina) jewelry will be less, because light attacks are becoming a bigger part of the damage output (for everyone, not just WW), and they now scale with maximum stamina, so there is a bit of an opportunity cost associated with getting infused jewelry instead of stamina jewelry.

I guess the infused jewelry will still pull ahead, just not by as much as it may seem.

Correct, until we see how the new scaling plays out we won't really see what will come out on top for damage.

Though these numbers are interesting to play with. For example The Beast of Bruma Build.

We can safely swap out the arcane on the two pieces of jewelry for infused. This increases both the builds damage and its burst heal. The trade off is we will be reducing the mag resource pool from 19k down to 17k , thus reducing the amount of rapid succession healing capability (slightly) from a full resource pool.

I think this trait is most beneficial for Pelinal's werewolf builds.

Qbiken

Sharee wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Summerset is on the way.

Infused weapon damage jewelry numbers and you (Werewolf Math)... Subject to change.

Buffs include: Major Brutality, Hircine's Rage, Savage Strength 2/2. (+48%)

Base Glyph: 174

Werewolf
Buffed: 257.52
Infused Buffed: 412.032
Increase on one infused: 154.512
Increase on two infused: 309.024
Increase on three infused: 463.536

Templar Werewolf (+6%)
Buffed: 267.96
Infused buffed: 428.737
Increase on one infused: 160.776
Increase on two infused: 309.024
Increase on three infused: 482.328


Medium Armor Werewolf (+12%)
Buffed: 278.4
Infused buffed: 445.44
Increase on one infused: 167.04
Increase on two infused: 334.08
Increase on three infused: 501.13

Medium Armor Templar Werewolf (+18%)
Buffed: 288.84
Infused Buffed: 462.144
Increase on one infused: 173.304
Increase on two infused: 346.608
Increase on three infused: 519.912

Just keep in mind that the actual damage difference between infused and normal(stamina) jewelry will be less, because light attacks are becoming a bigger part of the damage output (for everyone, not just WW), and they now scale with maximum stamina, so there is a bit of an opportunity cost associated with getting infused jewelry instead of stamina jewelry.

I guess the infused jewelry will still pull ahead, just not by as much as it may seem.

I´m still kind of confused about this scaling about light and heavy attacks. Someone wrote that this it how it will be next patch:

its now max stat (mag/stam) + spell/wep damage

Sharee

Qbiken wrote: »

I´m still kind of confused about this scaling about light and heavy attacks. Someone wrote that this it how it will be next patch:

its now max stat (mag/stam) + spell/wep damage

As I understand it the most important change there is that light and heavy attacks now scale with max resource pool, in addition to weapon/spell damage (like skills always did). Until now, light/heavy only scaled with weapon/spell damage, not stat pools.

Qbiken

Sharee wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I´m still kind of confused about this scaling about light and heavy attacks. Someone wrote that this it how it will be next patch:

its now max stat (mag/stam) + spell/wep damage

As I understand it the most important change there is that light and heavy attacks now scale with max resource pool, in addition to weapon/spell damage (like skills always did). Until now, light/heavy only scaled with weapon/spell damage, not stat pools.

I see, now it all makes sense together with Aznox´s post. ty

Aznox

Check my previous post about LA and HA scaling :

Ok found it : https://alcasthq.com/eso-summerset-isles-changes-pre-pts/

Light and Heavy Attacks now scale differently, they now scale about the same with Magicka/ Stamina as with Spell/ Weapon damage. Therefore, weaving will be even more important from now on as the overall damage of both Light and Heavy Attacks got increased by a lot.

As always, the question to answer to know if this is a buff or a nerf is :

How does this affect us and how does this affect our opponents ?

To know that we need to answer a lot of other questions :

First we need to get the new light attack scaling equation ratio :
Are we going from 1 weapon damage = 40 max stamina to 1 weapon damage = 10 max stamina (same as skills) ?

If yes, pros, neutral and cons :
+ Our stamina opponents who usually focus on weapon damage will not benefit as much from the new ratio
= Werewolf kit has enhanced max stamina in the same way it has enhanced weapon damage, no loss here
- Our magicka opponents who usually focus on max resources will benefit more from the new ratio

After looking at the ratio, we need to look at the overall output of the formula :
Will light and heavy attack damage get a general buff because weapon damage scaling will stay the same and max stamina scaling will be increased ? (no compensation for the new ratio)

If yes, pros, neutral and cons :
+ quite a boost to our damage output
- also a boost to our opponents damage output
+ if light and heavy attacks is a bigger % of our damage output than our opponent's, then it's a buff to us

... i don't really have the time to go in-depth, but my general feeling is :

This will be an arms race that we start in a good position because light and heavy attack buff is good for us and max stamina is as much available to us than weapon damage

However this might remove some flavor to werewolf builds, more specifically our unique ability to focus on weapon damage while ignoring max stamina (only using our skills for utility) and stamina regen (thanks to heavy attack resource return). Also Pelinal's/Molag Kena might loose some appeal if stamina stacking gets to be the new optimum for us.

We might all end up with Shacklebreaker + Hulking Draugr ... or maybe not, much more calculations needed, but overall i would not worry that much

Currently LA and HA do scale with weapon/spell damage AND max resource, but the ratio is :

1 weapon/spell damage gives as much as 40 max resource for LA and HA damage

opposed to spell and abilities :

1 weapon/spell damage gives as much as 10,5 max resource for spells and abilities

This means weapon damage is a lot better at bosting LA/HA, part of the reason it's currently better to stack weapon damage than max stamina on werewolf.

The hinted change is that they will make LA/HA ratio 1/10,5 (same as abilities), this would mean a big boost to LA/HA for everyone if they only change this part of the equation. This would also mean it might be better to start stacking max resources instead of weapon damage.

Aznox

Ok i've run some quick math to know where such a change would get us with our LA/HA damage ...

... and it's seems maybe too big of a change for them to only change the ratio, they would probably tune down the coef too because a 42% increase (value for my example werewolf build, it would be around 100% for a petsorc build ...) would have a very big impact on the overall game balance.

Qbiken

Aznox wrote: »

Ok i've run some quick math to know where such a change would get us with our LA/HA damage ...

... and it's seems maybe too big of a change for them to only change the ratio, they would probably tune down the coef too because a 42% increase (value for my example werewolf build, it would be around 100% for a petsorc build ...) would have a very big impact on the overall game balance.

Kvatch Gladiator intensifies......

I´ll assume the same ratio works for magicka and spell-damage as well. It would make heavy attack builds very strong (generally speaking for PvE). If your predictions is correct about the change of ratio then a change is needed. Hopefully ZOS will then make a change that affects everyone equally and not just werewolfs.

Slightly off-topic: I can only imagine such a change together with the vMA destruction staffs. Would make those weapons insanely good and even more mandatory than they already are for PvE.

Aznox

Honestly it too early to either rejoice or worry, i won't spend more time on it until we get written info directly from ZoS (probably on PTS start).

Slightly off-topic: I can only imagine such a change together with the vMA destruction staffs. Would make those weapons insanely good and even more mandatory than they already are for PvE.

vMA staff adds a flat value to your LA/HA, so they wouldn't get better from this.
(and their interest will sometime suffer from the competition of standard set staves now worth 2 pieces for set bonuses)
Queen's Elegance Set however ...