Werewolf Theorycrafting (PvP)

Chrlynsch

Aznox wrote: »

... and against a magicka shield user, bleed will do a lot less damage than light attacks because there is no resistance to bypass, there's much more depth to our toolkit than most people know

Fact... if you can hit them... always feels like a game of wak-a-mole until detect pot comes up.

Qbiken

@Chrlynsch

Alchemy

* Fixed an issue where the effects of certain potions could be stacked if you were using Infused jewelry. These effects now replace themselves if you consume another potion of the same type.

I guess it´s back to the drawing table with the potionbuild xD

Ritter

PTS 4.0.4 Patch Notes wrote:

Increased the damage of Light and Heavy Attacks in Werewolf form by 50%.

Fixed an issue where the Werewolf Transformation and Pack Leader morphs would apply two bleed damage over time effects when using Light Attacks.

Looks like the double instance bleed was a bug all along and not a feature.
Edit: Reading is hard. I guess Berserker was fine all along?

I haven't done the math on where light attacks are compared to now. +50% from their overly nerfed form is what?

Aznox

My PTS is still patching but we will probably end-up with a nice little boost of 10-20% compared to live. Will check asap.

Sharee

Looks like ~18% 10% increase (7101 is the real value, 7615 was boosted by enchant proc).
Identical stats, same fight, PTS(left) vs live(right):

Xvorg

I'm kind of bored, so, a WW Sorc using elegance and pelinal's could eventualy become a decent build?

edit: the idea is to use light attacks as much as possible

EdgarMoose

Hey! Thank you for your great explanations. This is an amazing topic. I want to play my Stamblade a little bit diffrent next patch. I would like to play my Bosmer as a very very tanky Werewolf DD in PVP. The damage of 3-4 enemies should not be a problem with good handling.
If they lose their interest on trying to kill me, I would like to transform and burst them down.

What would you recommend?
Troll King, Beekeeper, Fortified Brass? I have no clue what could help me :-/

Chrlynsch

Qbiken wrote: »

@Chrlynsch

Alchemy

* Fixed an issue where the effects of certain potions could be stacked if you were using Infused jewelry. These effects now replace themselves if you consume another potion of the same type.

I guess it´s back to the drawing table with the potionbuild xD

Already on it

EdgarMoose wrote: »

Hey! Thank you for your great explanations. This is an amazing topic. I want to play my Stamblade a little bit diffrent next patch. I would like to play my Bosmer as a very very tanky Werewolf DD in PVP. The damage of 3-4 enemies should not be a problem with good handling.
If they lose their interest on trying to kill me, I would like to transform and burst them down.

What would you recommend?
Troll King, Beekeeper, Fortified Brass? I have no clue what could help me :-/

You would be better off switching to a race with a health regen passive. Orc is a solid choice.

Ritter

@Sharee -- 10% increase is not the 'significant buff' I was expecting... I hope you've made an error. lol

@Xvorg -- We've discussed the Elegant set a lot in the past, it's just not that great. Feel free to search the thread for those discussions and feel free to use it against all odds if you want! :P

Ender1310

Medium wolf vs Heavy wolf. Is the damage noticeable on a medium wolf? Is the Mitigation noticeable? Before I give the Medium wolf a try I guess I am just searching for some feedback.

Xvorg

Ritter wrote: »

@Sharee -- 10% increase is not the 'significant buff' I was expecting... I hope you've made an error. lol

@Xvorg -- We've discussed the Elegant set a lot in the past, it's just not that great. Feel free to search the thread for those discussions and feel free to use it against all odds if you want! :P

oki

what about Undaunted infiltrator/unweaver?

IlCanis_LupuslI

The damage is good but unless you are running in a group medium wolf is basically a walking ap pinata.
The werewolf doesn't have issues with damage output the problem is keeping the werewolf alive. Stick with heavy l. If you want to use medium armor I can reccomend using Pelinal with senche and chudan. Worked OK for me.

Ender1310

Automaton is not going to help your heals. Unless I am wrong about that.

Chrlynsch

Ender1310 wrote: »

Medium wolf vs Heavy wolf. Is the damage noticeable on a medium wolf? Is the Mitigation noticeable? Before I give the Medium wolf a try I guess I am just searching for some feedback.

The constitution passive is also very solid for the werewolf the extra magic sustain is very noticeable.

You definitely need some extra mitigation from heavy in order to withstand all of the incoming snipes and poison injections that will come your way.

Increased healing received is nice to have in heavy. As is the increased health regen. As it synergizes with troll king.

As for stamina sustain. Constitution plays a part as does increased heavy attack restore. 12k+ stamina on an off balance target.

Aznox

Quoting myself from the PTS thread :

Aznox wrote: »

Here are my latest results, for the comparison of light and heavy attack damage between Live and PTS 4.0.4, using what i think is currently the most competitive PvP werewolf build.

LIVE

Werewolf Light attack highest crit : 11741

Werewolf Heavy attack highest crit : 18299

PTS 4.0.4

Werewolf Light attack highest crit : 11085 (-5.59% vs Live)

Werewolf Heavy attack highest crit : 17444 (-4.67% vs Live)

Now lets trade 517 raw weapon damage (and some crit chance) for 4623 raw max stamina to see if we can get better results using the new scaling :

Werewolf Light attack highest crit : 11029 (-6.06% vs Live)

Werewolf Heavy attack highest crit : 17354 (-5.16% vs Live)

Conclusions

• Nothing seems broken, Tamriel isn't doomed, werewolves wont go extinct
• It is a bit sad for the change to result in a negative variation, but the amount is nearly negligible
• Currently strictly inferior to weapon damage, stacking max stamina will be a viable choice in Summerset
• The gain/loss of viability for werewolf in competitive PvP in Summerset will be determined by other factors than light and heavy attack damage

Ritter

@Aznox --

EDIT: Would be curious to see an applies to apples comparison between PTS and Live that uses a more stam-oriented build.

This is hard to sort out, it seems.

Do WW get anything even if we use sub-optimal stam-loaded builds?

Aznox

@Ritter -- No, I'm using max crit value as a reference for a reason : it will always be the same given a specific test environment, whereas average damage is affected by many random variable such as number of critical hit during a test, uptime of buffs and weapon damage glyph procs, etc... and will vary a lot between 2 consecutive tests.

By the way if you compare average between Live and same build on PTS the decrease is only 4,70% (but again, 5.59% is the real value)

Ritter

Posting my first test result: https://imgur.com/a/f1iC6qz

100% same setup, no gear, same CP allocation, to a T.

PTS light attacks hit for nearly 100% more damage....

What is this? lol

Chrlynsch

Ritter wrote: »

Posting my first test result: https://imgur.com/a/f1iC6qz

100% same setup, no gear, same CP allocation, to a T.

PTS light attacks hit for nearly 100% more damage....

What is this? lol

This is a thread for werewolves... not for trolls

Qbiken

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Ritter wrote: »

Posting my first test result: https://imgur.com/a/f1iC6qz

100% same setup, no gear, same CP allocation, to a T.

PTS light attacks hit for nearly 100% more damage....

What is this? lol

This is a thread for werewolves... not for trolls

@Ritter

Edit: I forgot to scroll down xD

Ritter

@Chrlynsch - I know I kid around sometimes, but those are legit tests. I took a video of it but XSPLIT didn't like me swapping between the PTS and Live instances of ESO and only capped the PTS. CMX lists the client version I was on at the bottom BTW. Not sure why the CMX parse looks weird on the PTS, but I was hella careful to do the the exact same test. Even managed to smack the dummy near exactly the same times, just spammed light attack for the span of a single timer. Am I missing something?

@Qbiken - My post contained a link to the CMX results for both PTS and Live... I was shocked, which is why I'm here.

Obviously, these are naked tests, but it seemed to be the most pure way to test. I would like to do another with gear as soon as I have the time.

Aznox

Ritter wrote: »

Posting my first test result: https://imgur.com/a/f1iC6qz

100% same setup, no gear, same CP allocation, to a T.

PTS light attacks hit for nearly 100% more damage....

What is this? lol

Come on, did you even follow what changed in summerset with light attack ?

you are comparing a build with 0 weapon damage and 20k stamina.

Summerset give you more damage for each point of stamina and less for weapon damage.

Your result is just as planned.

Ritter

@Aznox

Good point... I've stayed up too late

I'll test again with some builds as you have to see if we come up with the same results then, for science.

IlCanis_LupuslI

I was thinking if comparing , Pelinals vs Shacklebreaker whats bettter for WW-Open world??....

Qbiken

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

I was thinking if comparing , Pelinals vs Shacklebreaker whats bettter for WW-Open world??....

Why not both?

I´m experimenting with Pelinial + Shackle on the PTS and it´s really nice

Aznox

In 5 days (+ a few more to learn traits) you won't have to choose

IlCanis_LupuslI

Yeah but i kinda like my Salvation, soooooooo??

Sharee

Qbiken wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

I was thinking if comparing , Pelinals vs Shacklebreaker whats bettter for WW-Open world??....

Why not both?

I´m experimenting with Pelinial + Shackle on the PTS and it´s really nice

One thing that bothers me about that combo is that it wastes one set bonus. The 3-piece shacklebreaker is completely useless.

IlCanis_LupuslI

I put it in the calculator and i loose an est 6k tooltip on my Hircines Rage but get a 1k extra tooltip on my Houl of Agony, Im trying to figure out why so many people take Shackle over Pelinals

Aznox

Sharee wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

I was thinking if comparing , Pelinals vs Shacklebreaker whats bettter for WW-Open world??....

Why not both?

I´m experimenting with Pelinial + Shackle on the PTS and it´s really nice

One thing that bothers me about that combo is that it wastes one set bonus. The 3-piece shacklebreaker is completely useless.

It's true but the fact that even crippled, Shackle is worth considering, shows how good it is on his own.