Werewolf Theorycrafting (PvP)

Qbiken

Aznox wrote: »

Honestly it too early to either rejoice or worry, i won't spend more time on it until we get written info directly from ZoS (probably on PTS start).

Slightly off-topic: I can only imagine such a change together with the vMA destruction staffs. Would make those weapons insanely good and even more mandatory than they already are for PvE.

vMA staff adds a flat value to your LA/HA, so they wouldn't get better from this.
(and their interest will sometime suffer from the competition of standard set staves now worth 2 pieces for set bonuses)
Queen's Elegance Set however ...

I know they add a flat value, but the importance of weaving becomes even more important in that case (so why not stick with the vMA weapons? )

Chrlynsch

Summerset Build I am mentally kicking around.

Monstrous Thirst

Rough Draft

Race: Argonian
Class: Any

- 2 Kena
- 5 Clever Alchemist, 5 Prismatic on big, stam on small.
- 5 Shacklebreaker/ Mechanical Acuity/ Pelinals (needs field testing)
- Dual Wield Axes (1 Nirn main hand, Mag restore)(1 infused offhand, weapon damage)
- 5-1-1 Heavy, 4 impen, 3 well fitted

-Trifood
-Jewlery Infused potion cooldown reduction.
-Lingering Health Vitality Pots/ vitality detect pots/ whatevers needed

Stats: Theoretically neat.

Concept:

By infusing potion cool down reduction glyphs we end up reducing the cooldown of potions by 24 seconds, giving us a cooldown on pots of 21 seconds! This means we get to pop potions 2x as frequently and overlay multiple effects. Giving us a 70% uptime on both vitality and Cever Alchemist.

This synergizes with our argonian passive Resourseful, adding theoretical regen of 440 on both magicka and stamina when we chugging pots on cooldown.

Aznox

Tempting ... but passing infused weapon damage glyphs is not an easy sell :



Will depend on the pots, i need to check whats sorts of powerful 10-16 sec effets (like major cc immunity and major vitality) can be stacked into the pots for maximum gains.

Qbiken

Aznox wrote: »

Tempting ... but passing infused weapon damage glyphs is not an easy sell :



Will depend on the pots, i need to check whats sorts of powerful 10-16 sec effets (like major cc immunity and major vitality) can be stacked into the pots for maximum gains.

I´ve seen a lot of people thinking about CA builds utilizing the infused+potion cooldown enchant. The extra regen you get out of it is nice and I can see it work really nicely on a NB or DK. But the overall damage potential will be lower (as Aznox math shows). The + I see is the extra spell-damage which will help our werewolf heal.

Useful potions in my opinion:
* Detection potions: 70% uptime on stealth detection.
* Lingering health pots: 70% uptime on Major Vitality

But with these changes, Argonians will be extremely good with these builds. And I "fear" that a nerf to the Resourceful passive will occur. I think the Infused CA setup can work really nicely in a small group (started to realise werewolf works best in small group where you don´t get focused down so easily)

Chrlynsch

Aznox wrote: »

Tempting ... but passing infused weapon damage glyphs is not an easy sell :



Will depend on the pots, i need to check whats sorts of powerful 10-16 sec effets (like major cc immunity and major vitality) can be stacked into the pots for maximum gains.

I agree that infused weapon damage glyphs will be really hard to pass up.

I think the primary thought of the build is how flexible potions can be and utility of that comes along with having a 50%+ cool down reduction on pots.

Effects like lingering health also have the ability to stack when compiled giving you a solid Hot.

It will be an expensive build for sure...

Avran_Sylt

He who Light Attacks:

Sorc Orc

2 pc Kenna (Divines)
5 pc Automaton (Divines)
5 pc Elegant (DW Nirn/Infused) (Infused Jewelry, WP DMG enchants)

Warrior

Blue Stam/HP Food.

This is just my IC build for when I just farm the mobs. It's only gonna get stronger with Summersets Infused Jewelry, and if the devs are Buffing WW Light/Heavy Attack Scalings, oooh baby, elegant is really going to pop off.

IlCanis_LupuslI

I think Ive got my werewolf build almost ready....
What do you guys think??

https://youtu.be/7IOGzSoV_pI

Qbiken

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

I think Ive got my werewolf build almost ready....
What do you guys think??

https://youtu.be/7IOGzSoV_pI

What sets are you using in the video?

IlCanis_LupuslI

5x Barkskin, 5x Pelinals Apitude, 2xChudan(sometimes 2xZaan when i was in a bit of a mood for cheese :-P )
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=37501
Stats are pretty allright here the ones in WW-form(no continious):
Magicka15565
Health32511
Stamina46779

Magicka Recovery868
Health Recovery417
Stamina Recovery1679

Spell Damage3771
Spell Critical24%
Weapon Damage3771
Weapon Critical30.4%

Spell Resistance36232
Physical Resistance36372
Critical Resistance2480

Spell Penetration100
Physical Penetration2410

Ritter

Good stuff @Mangeli200194 - Barkskin is underrated. Effectively 500 recovery on a tanky/sustain MEDIUM set, yes please.

purple-magicb16_ESO

I don't pvp that much but as a dps option for tanks ww rocks! When one-manning a dungeon, at times it reminds me of how I appreciate it. Never would've taken down Drodda of Ice Reach without it. She teleports, stuns, summons dozens of Frost Atros and heals like crazy! What can't she do? Lol!

Btw Don't have my stats handy but just vaguely, I run 5 pc ebon, 5pc eternal hunt and monster set is infernal guardian. This build is the best I've used so far and I love it. Flexible enough for me to run dungeons alone. I have almost 38k max health, stam and mag are balance at around upper 19k (mag) and just over 20k for stam. Seems to work well with ww. Lots of stam sustain with ww slotted.

Ritter

@Chrlynsch @Aznox @Qbiken

What's the verdict on the new light/heavy scaling change?

"Rebalanced the Light and Heavy Attack damage scaling ratios so that Light and Heavy Attacks now scale their damage in the same way that normal abilities do – Max Magicka and Max Stamina is now a greater contributing factor towards their damage."

Aznox

I'm not sure yet.

On one hand a petsorc on PTS got results that validated exactly my calculation for a pure 1/40->1/10,5 ratio change (+100% damage for a petsorc stacking magicka)

On the other hand, ZoS wrote about another rebalance between LA and HA in the patchnotes ... without numbers.
FFS I HATE PATCH NOTES CHANGES THAT ARE NOT DOCUMENTED WITH NUMBERS

I installed the PTS but it's going to take me a few hours to replicate my exact build on it, characters aren't copied -,-'

Chrlynsch

Barkskin definitely has a little more draw to it now that snare durations are being reworked.

Ritter wrote: »

@Chrlynsch @Aznox @Qbiken

What's the verdict on the new light/heavy scaling change?

"Rebalanced the Light and Heavy Attack damage scaling ratios so that Light and Heavy Attacks now scale their damage in the same way that normal abilities do – Max Magicka and Max Stamina is now a greater contributing factor towards their damage."

Not currently working with werewolf.

Aznox

Not currently working with werewolf.

Like what ? you get the exact same damage as on live ?

...

wouldn't be the first time they completly forget to apply LA/HA changes to WW LA/HA ... see how late we got proper ressource return on HA against off-balance

-,-'

Ritter

Remember that time ZOS made an entirely new playable class and gave it essentially no identity for Werewolf play? I member. On some level, I feel like we're just a skin that doesn't dye well to ZOS. They'll get to it when they get to it.

Chrlynsch

Aznox wrote: »

Not currently working with werewolf.

Like what ? you get the exact same damage as on live ?

...

wouldn't be the first time they completly forget to apply LA/HA changes to WW LA/HA ... see how late we got proper ressource return on HA against off-balance

-,-'

Yup same damage as on live.

Ritter

Recently created this monster for Non-CP Battlegrounds. I call it The TrollowDoc Build: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=54608

If you do manage to survive burst, the regen feels so good. You are also much happier when there's someone on your team is casting Ice Fortresses as we have no access to Major Ward and Resolve with this setup.

Plague Doctor in Robust might be nice post-Summerset, the HP just maxes the value of high resists and makes the range for procing Troll King a lot safer in general, at least that's my thinking.

Edit: Definitely stronger on any race that has a health recovery bonus.

Thoughts?

Aznox

I you haven't tried it already, mine will have slightly lower HP recovery, but more burst heal and waaay more damage :
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=48969

Amdar_Godkiller

Ritter wrote: »

Recently created this monster for Non-CP Battlegrounds. I call it The TrollowDoc Build: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=54608

If you do manage to survive burst, the regen feels so good. You are also much happier when there's someone on your team is casting Ice Fortresses as we have no access to Major Ward and Resolve with this setup.

Plague Doctor in Robust might be nice post-Summerset, the HP just maxes the value of high resists and makes the range for procing Troll King a lot safer in general, at least that's my thinking.

Edit: Definitely stronger on any race that has a health recovery bonus.

Thoughts?

Pretty low magicka. Can't imagine you'd heal well. Doesn't seem like willow's path is worth it over other recovery sets. It'll buff troll king decently, but why not run troll king with orgnum's scales instead. You're only getting around 130 mag recovery and around 160 stam recovery anyway. So you could run orgnum's with shacklebreaker or amberplasm and basically buff everything.

Ritter

@Amdar_Godkiller

It looks like Willow is not buffing the drink I have active, so yes, the benefit of that set is pretty lackluster. Would be a bit better for stam in Medium armor of course.

Raudgrani

Nice thread. Back to "werewolving" after half a year off. Trying all new builds now.

I remember seeing many suggest Troll King, well that would have been nice. If it worked. I found out it doesn't on the build I'm trying. Went boring old Shacklebreaker and Salvation or Bone Pirate with Troll King. Thing is, my heals never meet the requirements for TK to proc! From full magicka, to being empty of it - my heals puts me at like 80-100% or very close to it every time, so I'm never under 60% in order for Troll King to be activated. :-P
Will try Mighty Chudan instead today.

I had better luck on my retired olf StamDK, trying Reactive Armor and Fury with Bloodspawn. People spam you with Talons, Fear you etc., so in the middle of a real large scale riot melee mosh pit - your Reactive will protect you most of the time (so will Bloodspawn), in order for Fury to be built up. Once I was at a good level of weapon damage (+5500), I popped an Immovable potion and let out the Fury. Tap Rousing roar a couple of times, Claws of Anguish and then whack and howl away. Try it, the only thing you die to are the true coordinated ulti dropping groups. :-)

Sharee

Raudgrani wrote: »

Nice thread. Back to "werewolving" after half a year off. Trying all new builds now.

I remember seeing many suggest Troll King, well that would have been nice. If it worked. I found out it doesn't on the build I'm trying. Went boring old Shacklebreaker and Salvation or Bone Pirate with Troll King. Thing is, my heals never meet the requirements for TK to proc! From full magicka, to being empty of it - my heals puts me at like 80-100% or very close to it every time, so I'm never under 60% in order for Troll King to be activated. :-P

Its not the big heals that activate troll king for me, but the myriads of little ones: getting crit - 120 point heal. Critting - 200 point heal. Then a tick from hircine's fortitude here and there if i happen to be using that morph.

Aznox

Raudgrani wrote: »

Nice thread. Back to "werewolving" after half a year off. Trying all new builds now.

Welcome back !

I remember seeing many suggest Troll King, well that would have been nice. If it worked. I found out it doesn't on the build I'm trying. Went boring old Shacklebreaker and Salvation or Bone Pirate with Troll King. Thing is, my heals never meet the requirements for TK to proc! From full magicka, to being empty of it - my heals puts me at like 80-100% or very close to it every time, so I'm never under 60% in order for Troll King to be activated. :-P

Troll King does work. You just lack the secret sauce to activate it

Lingering health potions

Will try Mighty Chudan instead today.

Very good alternative if you group with a dedicated healer.

I had better luck on my retired olf StamDK, trying Reactive Armor and Fury with Bloodspawn. People spam you with Talons, Fear you etc., so in the middle of a real large scale riot melee mosh pit - your Reactive will protect you most of the time (so will Bloodspawn), in order for Fury to be built up. Once I was at a good level of weapon damage (+5500), I popped an Immovable potion and let out the Fury. Tap Rousing roar a couple of times, Claws of Anguish and then whack and howl away. Try it, the only thing you die to are the true coordinated ulti dropping groups. :-)

I agree reactive is a nice and underused set, but I hope you have a good healbot because there is absolutely nothing helping your health sustain in there

IlCanis_LupuslI

Once Jewlerycrafting comes out ill definetly go for pelinals/fury/bloodspawn combo, finally i can go fury jewlery in robust instead of healthy and in combination with pelinals my heals will also get stronger the more fury proccs

Chrlynsch

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Once Jewlerycrafting comes out ill definetly go for pelinals/fury/bloodspawn combo, finally i can go fury jewlery in robust instead of healthy and in combination with pelinals my heals will also get stronger the more fury proccs

As of right now infused weapon damage jewlery will provide the most punch and it will also aid your healing as well, if you can get away with less stam. I know some wolves have sustain issues and need a little larger stam pool to work with.

Qbiken

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Once Jewlerycrafting comes out ill definetly go for pelinals/fury/bloodspawn combo, finally i can go fury jewlery in robust instead of healthy and in combination with pelinals my heals will also get stronger the more fury proccs

As of right now infused weapon damage jewlery will provide the most punch and it will also aid your healing as well, if you can get away with less stam. I know some wolves have sustain issues and need a little larger stam pool to work with.

Gold Fury will give you a maximum of 750 weapon-damage.
3x infused jewellery with weapon-damage enchants will give you around 530/540 weapon-damage. Together fully buffed you´ll get almost 1,3k weapon-damage. Sure it will be beneficial for your WW-heal if using Pelinial. But the setup you mention does not sound solo friendly at all. Would personally not touch that build without a pocket healer

Going 3x infused instead of robust you´ll lose around 2k stamina. In my opinion it´s a very good trade for 530-540 weapon-damage.

I´ve played around a bit with the bloodthirsty trait as well, and I don´t find it worthwhile at all. In general a player in Cyrodil will have somewhere between 26-31k HP. That means bloodthirsty will only benefit us when our enemy is at 6k HP and below. If someone drops that low against a werewolf next patch, they´re or should be dead anyway. So for me the infused, triune and robust are the traits to run with as a werewolf next patch.

Ritter

Raudgrani wrote: »

... trying Reactive Armor... People spam you with Talons...

Just noting that Reactive doesn't proc on immobilization and snares, only disabling effects. It essentially works when you can't block. It's an expensive set, so I wanted to to know that ahead of time.

Aznox

Ritter wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

... trying Reactive Armor... People spam you with Talons...

Just noting that Reactive doesn't proc on immobilization and snares, only disabling effects. It essentially works when you can't block. It's an expensive set, so I wanted to to know that ahead of time.

Did they change that ? Was quite some time ago but i remember it proc'ing on Hard CC + Roots (but not slows).
Made it very strong in duels against magdk.

IlCanis_LupuslI

How much Max stam do you aim for as werewolf??? *only 6% extra max stam from race passive