Werewolf Theorycrafting (PvP)

Qbiken

This thread was created to work as a source of inspiration for anyone who want to get the most out of their werewolf character in PvP. The thread got more attention (both good and bad) than I expected. From the start the initial post was made with a few questions in mind in order to get a discussion going. From now on the initial post will be updated with the findings of this thread and act as a summarize.

Chrlynsch

Build: Beast Of Bruma
- 2 Kena, 5 Pelinals, 5 Prisoner's - Prismatic on big, stam on small.
- Dual Wield Axes (1 Nirn main hand, weapon damage)(1 infused offhand, magic restore)
- 5-1-1 Heavy, 4 impen, 3 well fitted
- Orc
-Templar
-Trifood

Stats: Buffed
28k Health
38k Stamina
19k Magic

5.5k spell damage
5.5k weapon damage

800 magic recovery
500 health recovery
1.2k stamina recovery

Concept: Open World/Solo/Zerg Surfing/Group play

-Impressive damage
-Strong burst heals W/ sustained magic
through off hand magic enchant, constitution and Prisoner's.
-30k/28k Resistances
-Reduced sprint cost

Gameplay: No CP
https://plays.tv/s/Lbhyyh09Y7R2

Qbiken

Great post @Chrlynsch

I´ve tried the setup you describe myself and I generally like it, but I feel the stamina recovery is quite low. And I really need to see how I can reach 44k stamina, since I´m not even close to that number.

I often play solo and find myself often struggling when outnumbered as a werewolf. Poisons and defile-debuffs are a real pain to deal with. Any way to tackle those things?

Qbiken

Will tag some people here since I know you play werewolf and would love to hear your thoughts

@CrazyWolf712 @Sharee @RouDeR @Telel @Mangeli200194

RouDeR

I've settled to a Tanky/Sustain builds whit Low damage .
One of my Wolves is running
5xIronblood 5x Wizzards Ripose 2x Troll King
Race: ORC
Class: Stamsorc (Nightblade Khajit also works)
This is a video of me outnumbered in IC
Food/Drinks : anything with Magica recovery
https://youtu.be/2siXHf9HVC8

My second choice for gear is for my Stamblade Khajit .
5x Beekepers 5xSeventh Legion 2x Mighty Chudan .
Steed Mundus + Tri-recovery drinks.

Chrlynsch

Qbiken wrote: »

Great post @Chrlynsch

I´ve tried the setup you describe myself and I generally like it, but I feel the stamina recovery is quite low. And I really need to see how I can reach 44k stamina, since I´m not even close to that number.

I often play solo and find myself often struggling when outnumbered as a werewolf. Poisons and defile-debuffs are a real pain to deal with. Any way to tackle those things?

not sure why I put 44k as my stamina that would be a falsity, only 38k with the wolf.

I think the biggest part of this setup or any werewolf set up is utilizing light attacks as your primary dps and tying in heavy attacks with your offensive and healing abilities. Using Howls too frequently, is far too expensive to sustain without massive regen.

Stamina sustain will become easier for werewolves as they have a buff for sustain coming with the patch.

CrazyWolf712

* What assets do we´ve in order to dps/deal damage, and how can it be improved?
Werewolf has one major damaging move and two DoTs at our disposal. Howl of Agony/Despair coupled with Claws of Life/Anguish and our bleeds applied from light attacks, plus dire wolves if you role as Pack Leader, will all contribute to your damage. That’s not to mention proc sets and weapon enchantments.

Werewolves only having one primary damaging move will put them at a disadvantage against other players since we only have 5 moves to use instead of 10. I think that we should have access to both morphs of all our abilities but only be able to slot one morph on an ability bar at a time. For example, we can have both Claws of Life and Claws of Anguish but only be able to use one on a skill bar at a time. Maybe even have a bar swap to go to the other morph but the effects overrides the other morph instead of stacking? I don’t know but it would be nice to have both morphs instead of having to reset all your morphs to use one for a certain circumstance.

* How can we make sure we´re tanky enough to stay alive in a fight?
Resistances will cap out at 33k. So using heavy armor and utilizing champ points to maximize your resistances will make you much more tanky. Or you could use medium sets like Fortified Brass and Mighty Chudan to increase your resistances. Couple these things with Claws of Life for a constant trickle of health and you will find it that much easier to keep yourself alive.

* How do you tackle sustain (both magicka and stamina) as a werewolf?
The hardest part of werewolf sustain is magicka recovery and high werewolf ability costs. Using a set like Shacklebreaker will help with sustain since it gives both stamina and magicka as well as both stam and mag recoveries and weapon and spell damage. Using a magicka steal enchantment is great for magicka sustain. Medium armor builds will lower stamina ability costs as well and putting 75 point system into Tenacity in the champion system will make for better heavy attack returns. Recovery builds may give you less overall resources but you never seem to run out of magicka this way.

* How much can you trade damage for survivability and still be effective? (Damage VS Sustain VS Tankiness)
It is definitely a delicate balance and something that all werewolf players will constantly fine tune throughout their gameplay.
First off, you’ll want to have capped resistances in werewolf form. As for sustain vs damage, it’s really up to preference. If you feel as though you’re sustain is not an issue, you can sacrifice some to gain more damage. It really just takes trial and error and will need to be tweaked with each update. Heck, I’m still learning lol!

* Werewolf VS other classes? How to handle certain classes while in WW-form.
In a 1v1 scenario, you’ll need to understand how each class fights. A mag sorc will shieldstack and hide in mines or use a pet build. Mag DK’s will stun lock you. Stamblades will be your worst nightmare with the use of shuffle, cloak, stam poisons, and high burst.

When fighting mag DKs, keep your DoTs applied and conserve stamina. Use immov pots and whittle them down, then stun and burst them when they’re low. For mag sorcs, keep your DoTs active and keep up the pressure. They will have to waste all their resources on keeping their shields up. Stun them between shields and burst when they’re on the ground.

For nightblades, it’s usually a race of who can kill who first. Heavy builds do better to counter these players. When starting a duel try to leap at them before they stealth and knock them down and apply your DoTs. When they stealth, keep health topped and block. When they attack, try to stun them and burst them while they’re down.

As for templars, their heals are rediculous! Keep applying DoTs and use Claws of Anguish to reduce their healing (optional but deadly). Fear them outside their healing circles and use Howl of Agony for more damage against off balance or feared enemies.

Never let your stamina get below half unless you know you can make the killing blow. Others may have other strategies for facing these builds as well as others but these are the builds that I face most often.

* Group-play VS Solo?
When playing a solo werewolf build, the ultimate is usually used more for burst damage instead of a sustained transformation. I personally am a group oriented werewolf. Having at least four werewolves in your group makes timer management a lot easier but only in smaller areas like Imperial City or sewers. In open world, it’s not as viable. There’s nothing to keep timers up anymore since the perma wolf timer is gone. I know there’s plenty of solo PvP wolf builds out there and I’d like to know what they like most about werewolf in that setting.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Btw Pack leader vs Beserker, pros and cons!
And here a bit of gameplay on my ww=
https://youtu.be/8TchJvtDiT0

Chrlynsch

Build:Specialized Hunter
-2 Troll King, 5 Mechanical Acuity, 5 Sheildbreaker - Prismatic on all, weapon damage on jewelry.
-Dual Wield Axes (1 Nirn main hand, weapon damage)(1 infused offhand, Daedric Damage or shield glyph)(can run poisons instead)
-5-1-1 Heavy, 4 impen, 3 well fitted
-Orc/Argonian
-Sorc/Warden
-Trifood
-Lingering Health Speed pot
-Shadow Mundus

Stats: Buffed
28k Health
43k Stamina
18k Magic

3k spell damage
4.5k weapon damage

800 magic recovery
500 health recovery/ 2500 Troll king
800k stamina recovery

Concept: Group play

-Impressive damage Burst With MA includes heals to self
-Sustained healing through Lingering Health and Troll king
-30k/28k Resistances
-Strong Healing debuff
-Great damage on non sheilded targets (Crit Bursts)
-Those you can't crit on, deal direct damage to their health bar.
-SB works on wardens with crystal sheild!

Best wait for this build, will work best with new sustain next patch.

Edit: Spell damage was off, Increased total stam, and total magic

Aztlan

I like it! What would you recommend for a group- oriented khajiit stamblade?

Chrlynsch

Aztlan wrote: »

I like it! What would you recommend for a group- oriented khajiit stamblade?

When building a Khajiit Werewolf you will want to build around your passives and find a nice balance for in and out of werewolf form.

In my opinion Pelinal's is the perfect set for werewolves in PVP, though nightblade will not synergize well out of form.

Night blades can however benefit from extra magic for cloaking.

They also gain extra health recovery so building with that in mind can help survivability.

Here is the two sets I recomend for your Khajiit.


Troll king
Shackelbreaker

Your third set will define the build to what you need it to be. Without knowing what roll in the group you wish to fulfill I can't guide the build further

I enjoy defile builds so using fasalla's with a werewolf can suppress the bulk of an enemy group's healing.

Qbiken

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Build:Specialized Hunter
-2 Troll King, 5 Mechanical Acuity, 5 Sheildbreaker - Prismatic on all, weapon damage on jewelry.
-Dual Wield Axes (1 Nirn main hand, weapon damage)(1 infused offhand, Daedric Damage or shield glyph)(can run poisons instead)
-5-1-1 Heavy, 4 impen, 3 well fitted
-Orc/Argonian
-Sorc/Warden
-Trifood
-Lingering Health Speed pot
-Shadow Mundus

Stats: Buffed
28k Health
42k Stamina
17k Magic

4.4k spell damage
4.4k weapon damage

800 magic recovery
500 health recovery/ 2500 Troll king
800k stamina recovery

Concept: Group play

-Impressive damage Burst With MA includes heals to self
-Sustained healing through Lingering Health and Troll king
-30k/28k Resistances
-Strong Healing debuff
-Great damage on non sheilded targets (Crit Bursts)
-Those you can't crit on, deal direct damage to their health bar.
-SB works on wardens with crystal sheild!

Best wait for this build, will work best with new sustain next patch.

I can imagine the salt I would get for using this. But really nice

Qbiken

I will share a build-setup that I´ve tried for fun the last week.

Build: Assassin of the Hist
- 5 Armor of Truth
- 5 Heem-Jaas Retribution
- 2 Kena
Weapon-damage glyphs on jewels. Also work with cost-reduction or stamina recovery glyphs.
Nirnhooned main-hand with weapon-damage enchant and infused off-hand with prismatic enchant

5-1-1 Setup. Stamina enchant´s on all pieces.
Race: Imperial/Argonian/Orc/Redguard
Class: Templar or Sorc
Food: Tristat-food or Lava Foot Stomp/Dubious
Lingering HP-pots, Essence of Speed pots (Speed+HP-recovery) or detection pots (Detection+HP recovery)

Stats: Can´t provide at the moment. Will update when possible.

Concept:
The build is EXTREMELY nisched for Imperial City, and especially the sewers. Probably one of the most difficult setups I´ve ever used, but I will almost claim that there´s no setup on werewolf out there that can achieve higher burst damage than this one. Now how does this setup work?

First you need to make sure you´ve a way to proc Truth. The werewolf fear is perfect for this since the fear puts the enemies off-balance. If you want it´s also possible to make use of the tactician passive. Our goal with the build is to make sure Truth, Heem-Jaas and Kena are active while deliver our burst from piercing howl. The difficult part is to make usage of Heem-Jaas during those 3 seconds it´s active. To activate Heem-Jaas an enemy within 28 meters needs to die (that´s why IC-sewers is the place to use it). Note that you don´t need to kill the enemy yourself for Heem-Jaas to proc. They key is to make sure you always have an enemy that can quickly be killed when facing another player down in the sewers.

So a combo can look something like this:
Preparations: Make sure your opponent is within melee range and have Hircine´s Rage activated
Step 1: 2x Light attacks against a NPC enemy (like a daedra) ---> Procs kena
Step 2: NPC dies ---> Proc Heem-Jaas
Step 3: Use Werewolf Fear to set enemy off-balance ----> proc truth
Step 4: Be fast to hit your enemy with piercing howl.

Highest hit I´ve had so far against an enemy player with this setup (fully procced) is 28.8k (non-crit value). When I had this value I had no weapon-damage glyphs on my jewels and my weapons were purple. So I´ve no doubt it´s possible to reach 35k+ with a critical value.

Pros:
- Hits extremely hard when everything "clicks" perfectly. A medium or light armor build that gets hit with this will get 1-shot.
- Works good in a small group where others can kill things for you.

Cons:
- Extremely nisched setup and playstyle
- Very, very, very difficult to play
- Low survivability

Datolite

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Build: Beast Of Bruma
- 2 Kena, 5 Pelinals, 5 Prisoner's - Prismatic on big, stam on small.
- Dual Wield Axes (1 Nirn main hand, weapon damage)(1 infused offhand, magic restore)
- 5-1-1 Heavy, 4 impen, 3 well fitted
- Orc
-Templar
-Trifood

Stats: Buffed
28k Health
38k Stamina
19k Magic

5.5k spell damage
5.5k weapon damage

800 magic recovery
500 health recovery
1.2k stamina recovery

Concept: Open World/Solo/Zerg Surfing/Group play

-Impressive damage
-Strong burst heals W/ sustained magic
through off hand magic enchant, constitution and Prisoner's.
-30k/28k Resistances
-Reduced sprint cost

Gameplay: No CP
https://plays.tv/s/Lbhyyh09Y7R2

This sounds like a great build. Any suggestions on how it might translate into CP BGs?
Also why do you use axes?

Chrlynsch

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Build: Beast Of Bruma
- 2 Kena, 5 Pelinals, 5 Prisoner's - Prismatic on big, stam on small.
- Dual Wield Axes (1 Nirn main hand, weapon damage)(1 infused offhand, magic restore)
- 5-1-1 Heavy, 4 impen, 3 well fitted
- Orc
-Templar
-Trifood

Stats: Buffed
28k Health
38k Stamina
19k Magic

5.5k spell damage
5.5k weapon damage

800 magic recovery
500 health recovery
1.2k stamina recovery

Concept: Open World/Solo/Zerg Surfing/Group play

-Impressive damage
-Strong burst heals W/ sustained magic
through off hand magic enchant, constitution and Prisoner's.
-30k/28k Resistances
-Reduced sprint cost

Gameplay: No CP
https://plays.tv/s/Lbhyyh09Y7R2

This sounds like a great build. Any suggestions on how it might translate into CP BGs?
Also why do you use axes?

Edit* (didn't answer the battle grounds question)

The build is very effective in Battle grounds, it is really strong at relic running, and chaos ball.

Depending on your allies your K/D will vary, you lack an execute but the pressure you apply is strong enough to take out anyone that doesn't have an autoexecute on them.

Having an aoe fear/off balance proc is very beneficial for team play. As is Aoe healing debuffs.


I prefer axes for when I am in my human form, as the bar is essentially my back bar while in human form.

It gives me a chance to proc an extra dot when I am wieving my light and heavy attacks while casting abilities.

The general rule of thumb with this build is to make yourself the most optimal to attack every opponent. It stacks Raw damage in favor of crit and crit damage.

Remember that the weapon you have equipped loses its weapon passives once you turn werewolf. So the only passive that can really help you is the axe passive as you can proc an axe bleed before you turn wolf, for extra dot pressure.

Chrlynsch

Qbiken wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Build:Specialized Hunter
-2 Troll King, 5 Mechanical Acuity, 5 Sheildbreaker - Prismatic on all, weapon damage on jewelry.
-Dual Wield Axes (1 Nirn main hand, weapon damage)(1 infused offhand, Daedric Damage or shield glyph)(can run poisons instead)
-5-1-1 Heavy, 4 impen, 3 well fitted
-Orc/Argonian
-Sorc/Warden
-Trifood
-Lingering Health Speed pot
-Shadow Mundus

Stats: Buffed
28k Health
42k Stamina
17k Magic

4.4k spell damage
4.4k weapon damage

800 magic recovery
500 health recovery/ 2500 Troll king
800k stamina recovery

Concept: Group play

-Impressive damage Burst With MA includes heals to self
-Sustained healing through Lingering Health and Troll king
-30k/28k Resistances
-Strong Healing debuff
-Great damage on non sheilded targets (Crit Bursts)
-Those you can't crit on, deal direct damage to their health bar.
-SB works on wardens with crystal sheild!

Best wait for this build, will work best with new sustain next patch.

I can imagine the salt I would get for using this. But really nice

IMO stam wardens are some of the tankiest opponents in the game. This build melts them. Slap them with the healing debuff, then light attack, most of the same Stam wardens Lack a snare while trying to kite. So your going to be on their back no matter where they go.

If they put their shimmering shield up and your MA is proc'd... game over.

Ron_Burgundy_79

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Build:Specialized Hunter
-2 Troll King, 5 Mechanical Acuity, 5 Sheildbreaker - Prismatic on all, weapon damage on jewelry.
-Dual Wield Axes (1 Nirn main hand, weapon damage)(1 infused offhand, Daedric Damage or shield glyph)(can run poisons instead)
-5-1-1 Heavy, 4 impen, 3 well fitted
-Orc/Argonian
-Sorc/Warden
-Trifood
-Lingering Health Speed pot
-Shadow Mundus

Stats: Buffed
28k Health
42k Stamina
17k Magic

4.4k spell damage
4.4k weapon damage

800 magic recovery
500 health recovery/ 2500 Troll king
800k stamina recovery

Concept: Group play

-Impressive damage Burst With MA includes heals to self
-Sustained healing through Lingering Health and Troll king
-30k/28k Resistances
-Strong Healing debuff
-Great damage on non sheilded targets (Crit Bursts)
-Those you can't crit on, deal direct damage to their health bar.
-SB works on wardens with crystal sheild!

Best wait for this build, will work best with new sustain next patch.

I can imagine the salt I would get for using this. But really nice

IMO stam wardens are some of the tankiest opponents in the game. This build melts them. Slap them with the healing debuff, then light attack, most of the same Stam wardens Lack a snare while trying to kite. So your going to be on their back no matter where they go.

If they put their shimmering shield up and your MA is proc'd... game over.

How is your spell damage so high in acuity and shackle without running any spell damage glyphs?

Chrlynsch

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Build:Specialized Hunter
-2 Troll King, 5 Mechanical Acuity, 5 Sheildbreaker - Prismatic on all, weapon damage on jewelry.
-Dual Wield Axes (1 Nirn main hand, weapon damage)(1 infused offhand, Daedric Damage or shield glyph)(can run poisons instead)
-5-1-1 Heavy, 4 impen, 3 well fitted
-Orc/Argonian
-Sorc/Warden
-Trifood
-Lingering Health Speed pot
-Shadow Mundus

Stats: Buffed
28k Health
42k Stamina
17k Magic

4.4k spell damage
4.4k weapon damage

800 magic recovery
500 health recovery/ 2500 Troll king
800k stamina recovery

Concept: Group play

-Impressive damage Burst With MA includes heals to self
-Sustained healing through Lingering Health and Troll king
-30k/28k Resistances
-Strong Healing debuff
-Great damage on non sheilded targets (Crit Bursts)
-Those you can't crit on, deal direct damage to their health bar.
-SB works on wardens with crystal sheild!

Best wait for this build, will work best with new sustain next patch.

I can imagine the salt I would get for using this. But really nice

IMO stam wardens are some of the tankiest opponents in the game. This build melts them. Slap them with the healing debuff, then light attack, most of the same Stam wardens Lack a snare while trying to kite. So your going to be on their back no matter where they go.

If they put their shimmering shield up and your MA is proc'd... game over.

How is your spell damage so high in acuity and shackle without running any spell damage glyphs?

Good catch! edited original post. Thanks for keeping me honest

Datolite

By the way, is there a reason for using mostly heavy armor? It seems like the passives for medium would really benefit this build. Some extra health might help with survivability to offset the loss.

Also, how much penetration would you suggest for CP pvp?

Qbiken

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

By the way, is there a reason for using mostly heavy armor? It seems like the passives for medium would really benefit this build. Some extra health might help with survivability to offset the loss.

Also, how much penetration would you suggest for CP pvp?

More HP, more resistance, more healing received, more stamina back on heavy attacks. All that a werewolf needs

Ron_Burgundy_79

Qbiken wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

By the way, is there a reason for using mostly heavy armor? It seems like the passives for medium would really benefit this build. Some extra health might help with survivability to offset the loss.

Also, how much penetration would you suggest for CP pvp?

More HP, more resistance, more healing received, more stamina back on heavy attacks. All that a werewolf needs

And magic regen from constitution.

Datolite

One last question. Does the Physical Weapon Expert passing in CP help your werewolf attacks?

RouDeR

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

One last question. Does the Physical Weapon Expert passing in CP help your werewolf attacks?

Yes , you need to invest a lot of points there and in Master at arms .

Chrlynsch

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

By the way, is there a reason for using mostly heavy armor? It seems like the passives for medium would really benefit this build. Some extra health might help with survivability to offset the loss.

Also, how much penetration would you suggest for CP pvp?

Heavy for the extra survivability and sustain.

With the Beast of Bruma. Even if you have %12 higher spell damage/weapon damage in medium armor. Your heal is still going to be better in Heavy due to healing received passive.

You will also be sprinting a lot with this build meaning you gain little from higher Regen. But constitution will proc when sprinting. The extra stamina from a heavy attack synergizes with werewolf well, this will be multiplied next patch.

Mediums survivability comes from shuffle, mobility, and roll dodge. The only thing you have in wolf is roll dodge. You have no snare removal, no purge, so you will want the extra mitigation, and health.

Movement speed is capped at 100% and you achieve this in Heavy.

For specialized hunter.

The extra crit will be nice for damage off of cool down of MA, but will not help at all when you are in your burst phase of MA as you are 100% crit. Shieldbreaker, lingering health, Troll king, do not utilize crit.

Troll king is buffed for heavy users.

The extra health is nice as you tend to attract every bow user on the battlefield, and it is impossibly easy to "focus the werewolf" with dawnbreakers, so having the extra padding saved my life more times then I could count.

How I play heavy just fits better.

I drop 30 points into pen. You don't need too much because your bleed from light attack ignores armor/blocking to begin so it is your tool to use on armor stacking opponents.

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

One last question. Does the Physical Weapon Expert passing in CP help your werewolf attacks?

The physical weapon expert is worth investing points into, same with direct attack, as they both increase light attack damage. Giving you a free strong offensive, with light attack and bleed damage.

Datolite

Chrlynsch wrote: »

burst phase of MA as you are 100% crit.

Burst phase of Medium Armor? Am I reading this wrong?

Ron_Burgundy_79

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

burst phase of MA as you are 100% crit.

Burst phase of Medium Armor? Am I reading this wrong?

MA = Mechanical Acuity

Datolite

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

burst phase of MA as you are 100% crit.

Burst phase of Medium Armor? Am I reading this wrong?

MA = Mechanical Acuity

Ahhh... thanks for answering all my dumb questions guys lol.

KingShocker

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Btw Pack leader vs Beserker, pros and cons!
And here a bit of gameplay on my ww=
https://youtu.be/8TchJvtDiT0

just curious, what gear are you running in this video? I think I heard you say pelinial's aptitude and I see the ww ultimate only costs you 200 so I assume that's because of salvation set

Datolite

RE: Beast of Bruma... what are your thoughts on replacing the Prisoner's Rags set with Armor of Truth? Would have to figure out another way to up sustain but that damage buff would be INSANE.

Datolite

A stam potion with major expedition and maybe some magicka regen glyphs and a change of mundus.

Or alternatively replace the Pelina's set with it and just won't be as healy. Adjust play-style to slightly more ganky.

Qbiken

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

A stam potion with major expedition and maybe some magicka regen glyphs and a change of mundus.

Or alternatively replace the Pelina's set with it and just won't be as healy. Adjust play-style to slightly more ganky.

If you´ve a pocket healer that can help you stay alive then you can swap out pelinial. The bigger the group, the less the need for pelinial.