Drop the CP cap to 600 and that's it until the system is reworked

TimeDazzler

Can someone please explain why this broken system receives a 30 point buff every major update? Like who tf is actually asking for a cap increase... I know im opening a can of worms here but I swear if someone comments "please explain how CP is broken" im gonna lose it. Rework the system already, diminishing returns was a good start but if you keep increasing the cap every patch what was the point of introducing diminishing returns to begin with.

Koolio

Cries wrote: »

Can someone please explain why this broken system receives a 30 point buff every major update? Like who tf is actually asking for a cap increase... I know im opening a can of worms here but I swear if someone comments "please explain how CP is broken" im gonna lose it. Rework the system already, diminishing returns was a good start but if you keep increasing the cap every patch what was the point of introducing diminishing returns to begin with.

If you keep diminishing the returns what’s the point of earning CP?

pattyLtd

Please explain how CP is broken?

Chilly-McFreeze

please explain how CP is broken

Jamini

To start, it's a flat 20% resources in all of your pools.
It also includes a fairly huge amount of beneficial buffs and boosts.
Plus it is normally 14% or so of your sustain.

I would love it, personally, if CP was removed. The passives it gives could be moved to skill lines instead.

Nihility42

Please explain how CP is broken?

LiquidPony

Cries wrote: »

Can someone please explain why this broken system receives a 30 point buff every major update? Like who tf is actually asking for a cap increase... I know im opening a can of worms here but I swear if someone comments "please explain how CP is broken" im gonna lose it. Rework the system already, diminishing returns was a good start but if you keep increasing the cap every patch what was the point of introducing diminishing returns to begin with.

I don't really understand your last sentence.

The diminishing returns don't go away as cap is increased. In fact, we're getting to the point where we're beyond diminishing returns and hitting hard-caps (people who run 100 points in Mooncalf/Arcanist or Tenacity for instance).

I like the cap increase every update because it allows me to diversify my CP allocation and take advantage of passives that I would have had to specifically spec for previously (e.g., I have the Treasure Hunter passive on all characters now because I have enough CP to spec into Shadow Ward/Tumbling, which is useful in both combat and looting). This patch, I imagine we'll see some additional focus on traditionally underutilized CP like Weapons Expert/Staff Expert since our returns are so diminished on the traditionally strong CP like Thaumaturge/Mighty/Elemental Expert etc.

Also, could you please explain how CP is broken?

Chilly-McFreeze

Jamini wrote: »

To start, it's a flat 20% resources in all of your pools.
It also includes a fairly huge amount of beneficial buffs and boosts.
Plus it is normally 14% or so of your sustain.

I would love it, personally, if CP was removed. The passives it gives could be moved to skill lines instead.

...Or to something like, you know, an alternative progress system that doesn't consists out of simple dmg increase/ decrease, cost reduction stuff. I'd be fine if they take the ordinary CP away and just let us pick a couple passives from it.

ADarklore

Let's see- WHY do they increase it every quarter... because people want to USE what they've earned. I don't see any problems with the CP system... it rewards players for longevity or their determination through grinding. If they removed CP, what could they add as an incentive for players to keep playing? With the current scaling system, there is no reason to even raise the gear cap, so no gear grind incentive... thus CP is the only thing we can gain. Right now I'm over a year ahead of CP advancement, so each quarter I look forward to being able to spend 30 of those points.

pieratsos

pattyLtd wrote: »

Please explain how CP is broken?

I wouldnt know where to begin and where to end. Everything in this game is getting nerfed over and over and over again because CP gives too much power. Classes are getting destroyed patch after patch to compensate for CP power. Raise CP cap -> nerf CP -> Raise CP cap -> nerf CP -> repeat. An endless cycle that leads no where, balance is out of control, everyone is OP, everyone is a noob.

And all because of a system that was supposed to give you options to customize ur character. There is nothing fun about it, its just numbers on a screen, people called it from the beginning that it was going to be broken and yet they keep on trying to fix it by following that endless cycle that leads no where.

Waffennacht

Get to max

Kikke

PvE: anything can be done with 300cp +

PvP: if your not capped, play nonCP

Overworld: just dont use your CP.

Quit QQ and play the game instead, if this game aint for you. Then quit!

and on that note, can I have your stuff?

WuffyCerulei

There are A LOT of players who are above the CP cap. When they raise the cap of useable CP, it's pretty much giving these players more progression instead of just having all the extra CP sit there.
And boi, CP ain't broken. It encouraged people to strive past level 50 and have more progression in ESO. And since Morrowind with the diminished returns, it isn't nearly as potent as it once was.

pattyLtd

pieratsos wrote: »

pattyLtd wrote: »

Please explain how CP is broken?

I wouldnt know where to begin and where to end. Everything in this game is getting nerfed over and over and over again because CP gives too much power. Classes are getting destroyed patch after patch to compensate for CP power. Raise CP cap -> nerf CP -> Raise CP cap -> nerf CP -> repeat. An endless cycle that leads no where, balance is out of control, everyone is OP, everyone is a noob.

And all because of a system that was supposed to give you options to customize ur character. There is nothing fun about it, its just numbers on a screen, people called it from the beginning that it was going to be broken and yet they keep on trying to fix it by following that endless cycle that leads no where.

I dont disagree entirely but there has to be some incentive for long term players and if its just some number who cares.
I dont really think CP is the bigggest problem ESO has and i really dont think another huge poin tless change would fix anything. First the problem was veteran ranks being to hard to obtain and now its the CP systems fault.

Maybe just play something else if its so horrible (not meant for the person i quote specifically).

Taleof2Cities

Every time CP is raised by 30 points the diminishing returns for CP-capped players (compared to non-capped players) is more pronounced.

Therefore, if that’s not the issue, please explain how CP is broken.

Chilly-McFreeze

pattyLtd wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

pattyLtd wrote: »

Please explain how CP is broken?

I wouldnt know where to begin and where to end. Everything in this game is getting nerfed over and over and over again because CP gives too much power. Classes are getting destroyed patch after patch to compensate for CP power. Raise CP cap -> nerf CP -> Raise CP cap -> nerf CP -> repeat. An endless cycle that leads no where, balance is out of control, everyone is OP, everyone is a noob.

And all because of a system that was supposed to give you options to customize ur character. There is nothing fun about it, its just numbers on a screen, people called it from the beginning that it was going to be broken and yet they keep on trying to fix it by following that endless cycle that leads no where.

I dont disagree entirely but there has to be some incentive for long term players and if its just some number who cares.
I dont really think CP is the bigggest problem ESO has and i really dont think another huge poin tless change would fix anything. First the problem was veteran ranks being to hard to obtain and now its the CP systems fault.

Maybe just play something else if its so horrible (not meant for the person i quote specifically).

But he's right about CP sucking the life out of the classes. Why did they gut class sustain in MW? Because the CP system made it all to easy. Beside that, the ordinary CPs are rather boring. +X% DoT damage, -Y% direct dmg taken. Very bland.

Like I said, get rid of CP, give classes back their old power and uniqueness, implement a system that is based around passives like tactician, windrunner, treasure hunter etc., designed in a way where you have to make choices. Could just as well be passives that change skills a bit, e.g. turns physical into magickal dmg (just an obscure thought, but would be interesting, opens up diversity and pleases the hybrid crowd).

Anotherone773

* The current system isnt broken, its just terrible. Its unimaginative and boring.
* They removed the grind from leveling up by removing the sense of accomplishment and the feeling that you are getting somewhere.
* Diminishing returns further diminish a sense of accomplishment or the desire to progress.
* All player characters are like identical twins, almost exactly the same with a few differences some of those made by choices but basically all roughly the same.
* i wont get into all the drawbacks of the current system.

In an ideal world, i would love to see a character/skill system like Rift. A lot of options on a single character and the ability to swap fairly quickly between different skill sets allows you to swap between sub classes each have distinct abilities, strengths and weaknesses. Characters actually have character. In ESO, characters dont have character, they have costumes and outfits, so we can play dress up.

But that will never happen so instead id like to see:

* The removal of enlightenment and diminishing returns. People need to stop expecting everything to be handed to them. Its a terrible trait. Part of the game is effort = reward, not logging in = reward.
* The removal of the CP system.
* All CP converted into 50 additional levels.
* All current gear adjusted for the levels.
* One Tamriel stays in place for current content. So you can still level anywhere with anyone in what is available right now.
* All new content will be a level system with DLCs adding 5 or 10 MEANINGFUL levels and Chapters adding 10-30 MEANINGFUL levels.
* The zone mobs will have actual levels. This means you may encounter mobs that are actually tough or mobs that you can one shot.
* Players above 100 will be leveled down in stats, abilities, and gear while in the OT content.
* Players below a zones level will NOT level up to the mob levels. So you will probably get stomped by that level 110 mud crab at level 60.
* I would also like to see a real stat system. Im not a fan of this generic stat system of health/stam/mag that Bethesda switched their ES games too. But i know that has a snowballs chance even if the other changes were somehow to be made.

Osubaker33

There is already almost no progession in ESO, if you take away CP also, a lot of players are going to get bored and just quit. MMORPG are built on progressing and feeling stronger.

WakeYourGhost

I see the CP system like the Paragon Level system in Diablo 3.
It adds more over time, and helps you feel that power creep for the difficulty spikes that some content gives, but it ultimately doesn't change that much in how the game "Feels".
The perks you get from dropping points in to a tree do feel neat, but a lot of them are practically unnoticeable.
Honestly, the only CP points I look forward to are the Thief points - At least a slim chance at double resources or an extra item in a loot chest is a nice boon. The crafting inspiration boost is also lovely when you're trying to find places to pop extra skill points.

Honestly, they could add some new active abilities or some kind of chain of "champion" skills that require a certain number of champion points invested in a tree to start unlocking them.
That being said.. Literally Anything at all is better than Nothing. At least it gives a new goal every so often - Or a payoff of some kind sometimes.

Either way, I feel there are many more important features and issues to deal with before Champion Points should even be on the table.

munster1404

ADarklore wrote: »

Let's see- WHY do they increase it every quarter... because people want to USE what they've earned. I don't see any problems with the CP system... it rewards players for longevity or their determination through grinding. If they removed CP, what could they add as an incentive for players to keep playing? With the current scaling system, there is no reason to even raise the gear cap, so no gear grind incentive... thus CP is the only thing we can gain. Right now I'm over a year ahead of CP advancement, so each quarter I look forward to being able to spend 30 of those points.

^ Agree. It’s a reward for dedication. I try to keep ahead of the CP curve each quarter as well. I like CP, makes me more powerful. If the Devs decide to implement an alternative to CP. They’d better not nerf existing damage/sustain/mitigation bonuses from the CP trees without adjusting game content.

Wing

agreed, see sig for details, there have been numerous threads on the subject

remember when armor gave more regen?

remember when it was nerfed because people were getting regen out of CP too? so the obvious choice was to nerf armor instead of remove the CP system.

most nerfs to classes, armor, itemization, etc. can have the root traced back to the CP system, its a boring useless power creep of a system THAT DOESNT EVEN POWER CREEP PROPERLY!!!! because after they increase it every 90 or so they further nerf class abilities, armor, and itemization to make up for the power creep they allowed via the CP system.

if you removed the CP system now everyone would be weaker then when the system was first introduced.

it is power creep

power is creeping from our skills, class abilities, and itemization into CP.

IT NEEDS TO DIE, I have more then enough CP to last me not playing for the next couple updates. its a dumb, sad, poor, worthless excuse of a system and some of the most boring "progression" I have ever seen in an MMO.

WakeYourGhost

Wing wrote: »

its a dumb, sad, poor, worthless excuse of a system and some of the most boring "progression" I have ever seen in an MMO.

More boring than the usual “Hit a flat Level wall, grind out top gear, wait for new top gear to make yours irrelevant with a few extra points in stats, grind that out” stuff?

Emma_Overload

Now I know how old people feel whenever Congress tries to cut Social Security or Medicare to pay for something else.

Get your grubby hands off my CP! I earned them!!!!

arkansas_ESO

I'm way over the CP cap and I agree. The system is just way too broken as is.

Chilly-McFreeze

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

its a dumb, sad, poor, worthless excuse of a system and some of the most boring "progression" I have ever seen in an MMO.

More boring than the usual “Hit a flat Level wall, grind out top gear, wait for new top gear to make yours irrelevant with a few extra points in stats, grind that out” stuff?

What's the difference between:
"hit a flat level wall, grind gear... wait...grind new gear"
and
"hit cp wall, grind gear...wait...grind new gear (and cp)"?

Most people at max cp will be at the max cp before the next update.
There will always be a need to grind out new gear, if it's better than the current. Not like ZOS doesn't introduce new sets each update.

code65536

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

pattyLtd wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

pattyLtd wrote: »

Please explain how CP is broken?

I wouldnt know where to begin and where to end. Everything in this game is getting nerfed over and over and over again because CP gives too much power. Classes are getting destroyed patch after patch to compensate for CP power. Raise CP cap -> nerf CP -> Raise CP cap -> nerf CP -> repeat. An endless cycle that leads no where, balance is out of control, everyone is OP, everyone is a noob.

And all because of a system that was supposed to give you options to customize ur character. There is nothing fun about it, its just numbers on a screen, people called it from the beginning that it was going to be broken and yet they keep on trying to fix it by following that endless cycle that leads no where.

I dont disagree entirely but there has to be some incentive for long term players and if its just some number who cares.
I dont really think CP is the bigggest problem ESO has and i really dont think another huge poin tless change would fix anything. First the problem was veteran ranks being to hard to obtain and now its the CP systems fault.

Maybe just play something else if its so horrible (not meant for the person i quote specifically).

But he's right about CP sucking the life out of the classes. Why did they gut class sustain in MW? Because the CP system made it all to easy. Beside that, the ordinary CPs are rather boring. +X% DoT damage, -Y% direct dmg taken. Very bland.

Like I said, get rid of CP, give classes back their old power and uniqueness, implement a system that is based around passives like tactician, windrunner, treasure hunter etc., designed in a way where you have to make choices. Could just as well be passives that change skills a bit, e.g. turns physical into magickal dmg (just an obscure thought, but would be interesting, opens up diversity and pleases the hybrid crowd).

They didn't gut class sustain in Morrowind. They cut sustain in various ways. Most notably, by eliminating most of the sustain from CP. Now CP gives, at most, 15% of your base regeneration. That's pitifully low. Other ways they cut sustain was from armor passives (not class), nerfing elemental drain (not class), and nerfing orbs into the ground (not class). The only class nerfs were Repentence no longer giving stamina to allies and Siphoning Attacks no longer restoring both resources.

And the power creep? Yes, the damage stars in CP are quite strong. But so are the defense stars. As far as PvP goes, this means that people of similar CP are pretty balanced against each other. In PvE, though, the CP is felt more greatly since your enemies don't harder to counteract your defensive CP, and they don't get extra defenses to counteract your offensive CP. But then again, all the balance nerfs are based on PvP complaints, and in PvP, the damage/defense stars being nearly mirror images of each other mean everything just cancels each other out.

The bigger source of power creep isn't CP, but skill improvements. I remember when vMA first came out on the PTS. People complained about the vMA destruction staff being worthless because nobody in their right mind would use Wall of Elements. It was just such a worthless skill. Back then, one of the top magicka Nightblade scores on PC/NA used a resto staff on his front bar because it did more damage than a destro. Back then, there were very few DoTs that were viable. But things have changed. Underperforming skills were buffed and made more interesting. Skill rotations have grown more complex, richer, and more powerful as a result. These are good changes, as they result in more engaging gameplay (instead of just spamming one skill over and over), but it also results in a lot of power creep.

Yes, there have been problems with CP. But they've been largely addressed in the past year. The extreme diminishing returns, the better mirroring of offensive and defensive stars. The gutting of CP sustain. The system is fine, and people who claim that CP is what's destroying the game are just scapegoating at this point.

rustic_potato

Lol what is the point of playing the game if it is going to be the same after every patch. You just sound like the low CP whiners on these forums. CP is meant to give you progression in the game. Pre morrowind it was broken af. Right now the system is perfect.

Derra

Name says it all has rarely been more fitting.

pieratsos

pattyLtd wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

pattyLtd wrote: »

Please explain how CP is broken?

I wouldnt know where to begin and where to end. Everything in this game is getting nerfed over and over and over again because CP gives too much power. Classes are getting destroyed patch after patch to compensate for CP power. Raise CP cap -> nerf CP -> Raise CP cap -> nerf CP -> repeat. An endless cycle that leads no where, balance is out of control, everyone is OP, everyone is a noob.

And all because of a system that was supposed to give you options to customize ur character. There is nothing fun about it, its just numbers on a screen, people called it from the beginning that it was going to be broken and yet they keep on trying to fix it by following that endless cycle that leads no where.

I dont disagree entirely but there has to be some incentive for long term players and if its just some number who cares.
I dont really think CP is the bigggest problem ESO has and i really dont think another huge poin tless change would fix anything. First the problem was veteran ranks being to hard to obtain and now its the CP systems fault.

Maybe just play something else if its so horrible (not meant for the person i quote specifically).

Vet ranks were a different story. We didnt have xp pots, training gear was working differently and didnt give more xp, u needed 1m+ for every rank and you had to do it on every single character. Imagine having to grind CP now on every character without any xp buffs. That was veteran ranks. It was a mindless stupid grind. I remember grinding for hours in spellscar just to get 1 veteran rank.

But even then, until v14 in terms of combat effectiveness at least vet ranks were not too bad. The extra stats u were getting from v12 to v14 for example were not that big and u could be competitive at a lower rank. The problem became much bigger at v16 cause the stats u were getting from v14 to v16 were gigantic. It was either get to v16 or go home. Just the base dmg of weapons was around 200 more. This is too much. And it was good they were removed. CP in terms of character progression is a brilliant idea but it was implemented very very poorly. CP in its current form is even worse than vet ranks. It gives too much power.

I didnt say CP should be deleted. Its just that CP should be reworked cause it gives way too much power. CP is supposed to be a character customization system. Thats how it was advertised as far as i remember and thats how it should be. Giving people character progression and options to create unique characters with limited combat effectiveness. As it is now, there is no real customization or choice. You just put ur CP in the optimal passives to get bigger numbers and thats it. There is nothing unique about it, its just character optimization and whats even worse is that it gives so much much power to the point where every class, ability, mechanics etc in the game have to get nerfed to compensate. It was supposed to be a system after you reach end game. But like joy said, if you constantly get more and more and more power then you are never really at end game. And the problems are going to get even bigger the more the cp we get.

Dracane

Every cap increase, increases the freedom I have with spending my points. They should increase it in bigger steps.
It's the developers fault, that everything gets nerfed. They fake us out, they don't want us to get stronger, so they nerf everything. What's so bad about players getting stronger ? How about going the less lazy road and just make monsters a bit stronger ? Why aren't we allowed to feel that we get stronger ? I feel like I'm getting weaker and weaker.

pattyLtd

pieratsos wrote: »

Vet ranks were a different story. We didnt have xp pots, training gear was working differently and didnt give more xp, u needed 1m+ for every rank and you had to do it on every single character.... like joy said, if you constantly get more and more and more power then you are never really at end game. And the problems are going to get even bigger the more the cp we get.

Oh i agree on the veteran ranks i am very glad they are gone but i dont see the huge problem with the CP system personally but i havent analyzed or done math or anything. I just play a videogame.

Isnt’t end game doing the hardest content in the game?
Because if its max level then i guess i reached end game but if its clearing vmol and the later trials on vet then i have not.

Edit: tried to shorten quote train but caused problem haha