Drop the CP cap to 600 and that's it until the system is reworked

CaineCarver

Cries wrote: »

Can someone please explain why this broken system receives a 30 point buff every major update? Like who tf is actually asking for a cap increase... I know im opening a can of worms here but I swear if someone comments "please explain how CP is broken" im gonna lose it. Rework the system already, diminishing returns was a good start but if you keep increasing the cap every patch what was the point of introducing diminishing returns to begin with.

Yet another thread that really boils down to one issue. Newer players resenting any benefit long term players have accumulated for time spent in the game. CP has been visited and reworked time and time again to placated those newer players that feel slighted or inconvenienced. Starting with the fact there is a cap at all, the accelerated gain of CP at lower levels, and the diminished returns as you apply more points. Finally NO CP campaigns and battlegrounds. The system is not broken, It rewards work and loyalty of long term players as traditional MMORPGs always have. There is nothing stopping you from gaining more CP. If you don't have a lot of time to play they even help you with daily "enlightenment" buff to make it easier. It simply about paying your dues of time in the game and being rewarded.

BloodMagicLord

CaineCarver wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

Can someone please explain why this broken system receives a 30 point buff every major update? Like who tf is actually asking for a cap increase... I know im opening a can of worms here but I swear if someone comments "please explain how CP is broken" im gonna lose it. Rework the system already, diminishing returns was a good start but if you keep increasing the cap every patch what was the point of introducing diminishing returns to begin with.

Yet another thread that really boils down to one issue. Newer players resenting any benefit long term players have accumulated for time spent in the game. CP has been visited and reworked time and time again to placated those newer players that feel slighted or inconvenienced. Starting with the fact there is a cap at all, the accelerated gain of CP at lower levels, and the diminished returns as you apply more points. Finally NO CP campaigns and battlegrounds. The system is not broken, It rewards work and loyalty of long term players as traditional MMORPGs always have. There is nothing stopping you from gaining more CP. If you don't have a lot of time to play they even help you with daily "enlightenment" buff to make it easier. It simply about paying your dues of time in the game and being rewarded.

Max CP player with 3.5k hours in the game here.
The current CP system is garbage - have you not noticed the power creep?

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

If you're going to drop it down to 600, give us reduced cost CP back then.

amir412

Derra wrote: »

Name says it all has rarely been more fitting.

Exactly, what can u expect from someone calling himself cries?
Pepole gotta stop crying over and over and start working with their brain to find work arounds.
Maybe their partents didnt told them that when they were young, but i will -

IF I/HE CAN DO IT, YOU CAN DO IT TOO.

SaintSubwayy

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

CP will not be increased next patch from 810 to 840 and you guys called me crazy.

Do you have any idea how little difference 10 points per Constellation makes at 810 CP?

I makes a difference?

Well okey, in the Defensive Trees there it can make a small difference, cause you can get so many forms of mitigation, which are usefull, or just go for the flat values or so.

Offesive wise, the options are IMO a bit more limited...jeah you may gain2% LA dmg, or 1% DOTS DMG, but not much more, but this asdds up over patches.

Green Tress are already crap for PVE, expect Regen and some cost reductions, which arent bad, but not a real enhancement compared to Blue or Red.

Towars the Necroloving OP, which revived the Thread...dropping CP now down to 600 would probably result in a big wave of ppl leaving the game

Azurya

No, just NO
worked hard enough to get where I am, and it is fine

Anrose

Azurya wrote: »

No, just NO
worked hard enough to get where I am, and it is fine

Well... it’s basically happening except the number is 810 and not 600. Sooo...

And since this post was made a year ago when 600 was a lot closer to the cap than it is now, it’s not surprising that the number is 810.

Mayrael

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

CaineCarver wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

Can someone please explain why this broken system receives a 30 point buff every major update? Like who tf is actually asking for a cap increase... I know im opening a can of worms here but I swear if someone comments "please explain how CP is broken" im gonna lose it. Rework the system already, diminishing returns was a good start but if you keep increasing the cap every patch what was the point of introducing diminishing returns to begin with.

Yet another thread that really boils down to one issue. Newer players resenting any benefit long term players have accumulated for time spent in the game. CP has been visited and reworked time and time again to placated those newer players that feel slighted or inconvenienced. Starting with the fact there is a cap at all, the accelerated gain of CP at lower levels, and the diminished returns as you apply more points. Finally NO CP campaigns and battlegrounds. The system is not broken, It rewards work and loyalty of long term players as traditional MMORPGs always have. There is nothing stopping you from gaining more CP. If you don't have a lot of time to play they even help you with daily "enlightenment" buff to make it easier. It simply about paying your dues of time in the game and being rewarded.

Max CP player with 3.5k hours in the game here.
The current CP system is garbage - have you not noticed the power creep?

Almost 6k hours here, is this making my point more valid than yours? Doubt it...

So power creep or... skill creep? I'm strict PvP player, never cared about things like my rotation or DPS on a dummy, PvP is to unpredictable to close your self in schemas.

That's why my DPS on dummy is pathetic (30k at best) though I'm high above CP cap, while at the same time I have in my guild players with around 400CPs who can pull DPS over 40k easily. So where is that power creep? I should be able to beat them easily when it goes to DPS because I have over 2x more CPs but I don't! Why?

Because they are practicing like maniacs, they are part of progressive group, they are interested in doing hardest content. When they started they had like 10k DPS, but thanks to more experienced players they have improved dramatically and only thing they need was their will to become better.

Don't ruin the game for people like them, because they want to progress through the hardest content and they know they'll be able to do this once they'll improve. They don't blame anyone for not being able to do hardest trials, they work hard for it... and nope, it's not CPs that made them better PvErs than me, because I have more of them, it's their hard work.

To make vetTrials available for more players we would have to change mechanics of those trials, not CPs. But IMHO not every content should be casual friendly, PvE needs some kind of challenge (it's easier in PvP, fighting other human being is already challenging most of the time).

Mayrael

Double post

TequilaFire

Why is it all the bads make threads trying to nerf what they don't have.
Necro post in any event.

Skwor

1. It is the hieght of arrogance to presume to speak for everyone else and even worse to call for taking away what I and many others have already earned.
2. CP is just fine, all the histronics around it on these forums is completly off base. The racial and gear sets are a much bigger issue.
3. Most like CP so just accept it. To repeat it is not the issue some of you pretend it is.

Nebthet78

Wow, a Necro Thread, to go with Necromancers coming to this game.

The issue is not the CP in this game. It never has been. The issue has been the fact that ZOS removed the CAPS on all our stats in this game (except resistances), and they need to bring those back.


There are 5 different Tiers of players in this game.

*Tier 1: New, Casual RP only players who don't really care about getting Vet Dungeons or Trials done, or don't have enough experience with the game yet. Can't breach 10k DPS self buffed.

*Tier 2: Your Average Player. Can do most Vet Dungeons and Normal Trials. May have limited ability to do Vet Trials, but Not Vet Hard Mode. Typically can't breach 20k DPS self buffed.

*Tier3: Middle Tier Players. Can do Vet HM Dungeons, Normal content is far too easy. Most Vet Trials are doable, but not all Hard Modes. Unable to take advantage of Animation Cancelling for various reasons. Tech, Lag, Disability. Typically can't reach 30k DPS self buffed.

*Tier 4: Upper Middle Tier Players. Same as Tier 3, BUT can more reliably Animation Cancel. Can reach 35-45k self buffed.

*Tier 5: Elite End Game: Can achieve over 45k dps self buffed, some achieving upwards to 70k parses and blows through Vet Trials Hard Mode content, bypassing mechanics. Often the cause of resource nerfs across the board by ZOS.




Over the last 2 years, a lot of the resource nerfs and other nerfs have been a combination of trying to (Unsuccessfully) bring the DPS ceiling down because of the 50-70k dps numbers, and trying to balance PVP. They nerfed resources due to Tier 5 stack and burn in Hard Mode trials.

The problem though, without CAPs having been added to CP... ZOS is unable to lower that ceiling without gutting out the Tier 3 players. The Tier 4 players don't feel it as bad, since their dps won't drop as much as they can effectively make up that difference with animation cancelling, but they still get nerfed too.

Bringing CAPs on Stats back into this game will:

- This will open up build diversity. It will reduce the necessity for 2 or 3 sets of BiS gear per character roll, instead opening it up to using armour that supports your playstyle, and not just what Alcast tells you, you need to wear.

- It will allow Hybrid Builds to be viable once again and allow players to once again play how they want.

- With the new Racial Passives being announced, bringing in caps will help to mitigate any racials, allowing those players who want to play a Khajit mage to do so effectively.




Then I feel they need to put an actual CAP on MAX achievable DPS. A 45k cap at this point in time I feel would be good to get a feel for how things would play out and determine if this;

- Effectively "Lowers the Ceiling" without gutting out the Middle Tiers 2-4 players in this game.

- This would be the one thing that makes up for Animation Cancelling. A BUG that ZOS has outright admitted they are unable to fix, and therefore have stated it's not a cheat and so an allowable mechanic, despite the majority of players being unable to reliably take advantage of that mechanic.
- This prevents the power creep from getting too high. It gives other players, from Tier 1 to Tier 4 a goal to achieve DPS wise and allows them to make decisons within the CP tree to help them achieve that, based on their play style.
- This will force Tier 5 players to continuously play within the designed mechanics of a Trials Dungeon without so easily bypassing them.
- This number can be increased in the future if ZOS decides to release harder content.
- It will continue to allow a small points of vertical progression (power creep) without being overwhelming, and with an end point to that power, which will only be achievable by a very small percentage of the game as it stands now.
- It will open up more end game content to more players over time as they progress, especially those being held back due to continued nerfs, lag, disability and being unable to animation cancel.

Then, I feel to make up for the DPS cap, ZOS could add in a 4th CP Tree which players can dump points in too. This tree would have perks for Quality of Life things only. Example:
- Top Perk would maybe be an extra drops in Trials and Dungeons, or even an Extra 10k sellable item, or better drops from making Leaderboard in Trials.
- More Bank Space
- Increase the number of Collectables you can put in your Home.
- Increased Inventory space
- Increase chance of finding paintings in chests in DLC content.

These perks would also be available to all other players, but depending on what you do as a player, you would be making a choice between your character's power progression or your quality of life items.


In closing... CP is not the issue and never really has been. The lack of Caps has been the main issue. ZOS needs to stop nerfing the majority of players to try to bring the Elite end game players into line. It's not working. It never has because there has always been a way to bypass what ZOS has done. Putting caps on stats and on DPS effectively cuts of that bypass without hurting the progress of the majority of players.

Mayrael

@Nebthet78 - yes, softcaps was one of the best tools to maintain balance, when we had them ironically we had much more freedom because it was pointless to invest everything in one stat, thus hybrid and unconventional builds were more viable and were not as gimped.

IonicKai

@Nebthet78 I really like your explanation of player tiers. I think it is pretty accurate to say that most nerfs are aimed at the tier 5 players. They really aren't working and only serve to widen the gap between them and everyone else but I don't think that creating ceilings will solve this problem. Capping max resources from self buffs is fine but forcing elite players to be limited isn't good either.

I would suggest trying build difficult content with the tier 4 group in mind and make balance changes on classes only if tier 4 starts getting really out of hand damage wise. This gives a better path to progression for players in that the top can chase their leaderboard runs without concern while those trying to get to a point where they can beat all content actually have a shot and don't feel like they are getting weaker every update because ZoS is trying to rain in the tier 5 elite players. The power creep has certainly come more from people figuring out how to abuse animation canceling and line up skills that work with it than anything CP has done.

Colecovision

I'm going to once again request that the board add a feature that automatically labels threads that are 6 months+ old. Obviously a necromancer icon would be best, but I'd take a change in text color.

Inig0

Thats a very interesting point. I get though that a lot of people would directly feel like something is being taken away from them which is why people are responding kind of aggressively to it.

With ZoS freezing CP unlocks i would imagine theyre taking this as an opportunity to rework their damage modifiers because that is where a lot of people get the "cp is broken" idea because it is really strong.

It'd be interesting to see what kind of changes they plan on making to cp overall to balance it. Hopefully we'll see that here on the forums or on the pts for everyone to play around with before it gets set in stone.

ezio45

no, im not ok with that type of nerf. we have come to expect certain lvls of dps, sustain and defense. until the system is reworked and those lvls are maintained but not increased, no

Vapirko

Nestor wrote: »

There were nerfs to resources, sustain and damage before the CP system was introduced. Any combat system they try to achieve balance with will have nerfs.

Is the CP System perfect? No. Is the CP system the only reason we would have power creep? We would have this in any game that offers end game progression.

Yeah I dont see how you avoid this with any type of end game progression. But then this is my only MMO so Im not sure what others do. I mean the way I see it they either do something like CP and rebalance the game every so often and we go back to theory crafting and build adjustment once in a while (idk about others but I think its fun most of the time), or they simply continually introduce higher level gear or new must have sets and we all go and grind for them instead of having something like CP. That sounds way worse to me. Idk why but for some reason Im starting to have hope again for this game. The racial balance pass was a tough call but I think for the first time in a while they made tough decisions pretty well. Some tweaking might need to happen but overall it had a different feel than past balance passes which were just crushing across the board in certain areas and left others alone. This feels more balanced.