Maintenance for the week of June 24:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – June 24
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – June 26, 4:00AM EDT (08:00 UTC) – 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

A buff to Khajiit?

  • Twohothardware
    Twohothardware
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    Better off giving khajiits a direct 3% max stam

    An extra 3% max stamina by itself will do very little for Khajiit outside of paper stats against a test dummy. It doesn't matter how much stamina you have if you can't sustain it. Imperial has 10% max Stamina just like Redguard does yet Redguard is by far the dominant race that everyone creates.

    In the heavy handed nerfs ZOS made last year they completely removed Cost Reduction CP, Nerfed the Recovery CP, nerfed the Cost Reduction and Recovery passives on light and medium armor, massively nerfed the Constitution passive on Heavy Armor, increased the cost of skills like Vigor by as much as 30%, nerfed the resource return on several popular sets like Black Rose and Bone Pirate, removed the ability for all Monster sets to Crit, nerfed Major Mending, nerfed Blessed and Quick Recovery CP that Stamina classes relied on most, nerfed the Thief and Shadow Mundus, nerfed resource return on Class passives like DK's Battle Roar, and then in the mix of all that we still have 30% cost increase Poisons in the game.

    So then you go and try to sustain on a Khajiit or a Nord that has only 10% Stam Recovery bonus or none at all vs playing on a race like Redguard that gives you like 3 times the Sustain the difference is obvious. When you're having to change sets, invest a lot more into Recovery, and add more heavy attacks to your rotation just because you picked one Race over another it's not balanced.
    Edited by Twohothardware on February 2, 2018 12:07AM
  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    That still doesn't mean Bosmer can't get a slight buff so that Redguard isn't the end all be all Stamina race. Not every Bosmer is a NB, so while it does help them further cement their Stamblade supremacy, it also helps their StamDKs, StamSorcs, Stamplars and Stamdens be on more equal footing to Redguard without surpassing them in those fields either.

    You do not balance based off 1 area but the entire field and right now, Redguard has the field covered on all fronts.
    Argonian forever
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    Better off giving khajiits a direct 3% max stam

    An extra 3% max stamina by itself will do very little for Khajiit outside of paper stats against a test dummy. It doesn't matter how much stamina you have if you can't sustain it. Imperial has 10% max Stamina just like Redguard does yet Redguard is by far the dominant race that everyone creates.

    In the heavy handed nerfs ZOS made last year they completely removed Cost Reduction CP, Nerfed the Recovery CP, nerfed the Cost Reduction and Recovery passives on light and medium armor, massively nerfed the Constitution passive on Heavy Armor, increased the cost of skills like Vigor by as much as 30%, nerfed the resource return on several popular sets like Black Rose and Bone Pirate, removed the ability for all Monster sets to Crit, nerfed Major Mending, nerfed Blessed and Quick Recovery CP that Stamina classes relied on most, nerfed the Thief and Shadow Mundus, nerfed resource return on Class passives like DK's Battle Roar, and then in the mix of all that we still have 30% cost increase Poisons in the game.

    So then you go and try to sustain on a Khajiit or a Nord that has only 10% Stam Recovery bonus or none at all vs playing on a race like Redguard that gives you like 3 times the Sustain the difference is obvious. When you're having to change sets, invest a lot more into Recovery, and add more heavy attacks to your rotation just because you picked one Race over another it's not balanced.

    I sustained fine on an imperial dps, and maintained relatively the same dps as if I was on a redguard while being alot more surviviable due to the 12% hp boost the only difference is an extra heavy attack or 2 every other rotation. 792/5*2 is only 316.8 regen if you proc every 5 seconds, so in reality it is more like 200-250 regen. Even at best case scenerio, with 316.8 regen you are telling me that your recovery on a khajiit is 105.6? I can get much more than that on an altmer with no stam regen glyphs, food, cp or medium armor.
    You are right in the fact that you shouldnt have the highest damage and sustain at the same time, which is why Im proposing carnage buffs
    Edit: base regen for stam is about 500, so that 105.6 number would be impossible to have
    Edited by JobooAGS on February 2, 2018 12:27AM
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    That still doesn't mean Bosmer can't get a slight buff so that Redguard isn't the end all be all Stamina race. Not every Bosmer is a NB, so while it does help them further cement their Stamblade supremacy, it also helps their StamDKs, StamSorcs, Stamplars and Stamdens be on more equal footing to Redguard without surpassing them in those fields either.

    You do not balance based off 1 area but the entire field and right now, Redguard has the field covered on all fronts.

    You are asking for more racial diversity (which is fine) while under the same breath asking for changes that would put bosmer to be the end all be all race for a class? That is a bit on the counter intuitive side...
  • Twohothardware
    Twohothardware
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    Better off giving khajiits a direct 3% max stam

    An extra 3% max stamina by itself will do very little for Khajiit outside of paper stats against a test dummy. It doesn't matter how much stamina you have if you can't sustain it. Imperial has 10% max Stamina just like Redguard does yet Redguard is by far the dominant race that everyone creates.

    In the heavy handed nerfs ZOS made last year they completely removed Cost Reduction CP, Nerfed the Recovery CP, nerfed the Cost Reduction and Recovery passives on light and medium armor, massively nerfed the Constitution passive on Heavy Armor, increased the cost of skills like Vigor by as much as 30%, nerfed the resource return on several popular sets like Black Rose and Bone Pirate, removed the ability for all Monster sets to Crit, nerfed Major Mending, nerfed Blessed and Quick Recovery CP that Stamina classes relied on most, nerfed the Thief and Shadow Mundus, nerfed resource return on Class passives like DK's Battle Roar, and then in the mix of all that we still have 30% cost increase Poisons in the game.

    So then you go and try to sustain on a Khajiit or a Nord that has only 10% Stam Recovery bonus or none at all vs playing on a race like Redguard that gives you like 3 times the Sustain the difference is obvious. When you're having to change sets, invest a lot more into Recovery, and add more heavy attacks to your rotation just because you picked one Race over another it's not balanced.

    I sustained fine on an imperial dps, and maintained relatively the same dps as if I was on a redguard while being alot more surviviable due to the 12% hp boost the only difference is an extra heavy attack or 2 every other rotation. 792/5*2 is only 316.8 regen if you proc every 5 seconds, so in reality it is more like 200-250 regen. Even at best case scenerio, with 316.8 regen you are telling me that your recovery on a khajiit is 105.6? I can get much more than that on an altmer with no stam regen glyphs, food, cp or medium armor.
    You are right in the fact that you shouldnt have the highest damage and sustain at the same time, which is why Im proposing carnage buffs
    Edit: base regen for stam is about 500, so that 105.6 number would be impossible to have

    A set like Bone Pirate's Tatters adds 279 stam recovery. You're getting the recovery of a 5 piece set as Redguard's racial passive. Khajiit gets about 1/3 that in recovery while marginal to no difference in DPS because you're having to invest more in Recovery or weave more Heavy Attacks to play as a Khajiit vs a Redguard.
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    Better off giving khajiits a direct 3% max stam

    An extra 3% max stamina by itself will do very little for Khajiit outside of paper stats against a test dummy. It doesn't matter how much stamina you have if you can't sustain it. Imperial has 10% max Stamina just like Redguard does yet Redguard is by far the dominant race that everyone creates.

    In the heavy handed nerfs ZOS made last year they completely removed Cost Reduction CP, Nerfed the Recovery CP, nerfed the Cost Reduction and Recovery passives on light and medium armor, massively nerfed the Constitution passive on Heavy Armor, increased the cost of skills like Vigor by as much as 30%, nerfed the resource return on several popular sets like Black Rose and Bone Pirate, removed the ability for all Monster sets to Crit, nerfed Major Mending, nerfed Blessed and Quick Recovery CP that Stamina classes relied on most, nerfed the Thief and Shadow Mundus, nerfed resource return on Class passives like DK's Battle Roar, and then in the mix of all that we still have 30% cost increase Poisons in the game.

    So then you go and try to sustain on a Khajiit or a Nord that has only 10% Stam Recovery bonus or none at all vs playing on a race like Redguard that gives you like 3 times the Sustain the difference is obvious. When you're having to change sets, invest a lot more into Recovery, and add more heavy attacks to your rotation just because you picked one Race over another it's not balanced.

    I sustained fine on an imperial dps, and maintained relatively the same dps as if I was on a redguard while being alot more surviviable due to the 12% hp boost the only difference is an extra heavy attack or 2 every other rotation. 792/5*2 is only 316.8 regen if you proc every 5 seconds, so in reality it is more like 200-250 regen. Even at best case scenerio, with 316.8 regen you are telling me that your recovery on a khajiit is 105.6? I can get much more than that on an altmer with no stam regen glyphs, food, cp or medium armor.
    You are right in the fact that you shouldnt have the highest damage and sustain at the same time, which is why Im proposing carnage buffs
    Edit: base regen for stam is about 500, so that 105.6 number would be impossible to have

    A set like Bone Pirate's Tatters adds 279 stam recovery. You're getting the recovery of a 5 piece set as Redguard's racial passive. Khajiit gets about 1/3 that in recovery while marginal to no difference in DPS because you're having to invest more in Recovery or weave more Heavy Attacks to play as a Khajiit vs a Redguard.

    Shouldnt a khajiit get 1% more recovery than a redguard? 10%>9%?
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would, buff carnage to 10 or 12% and players would have a choice to go damage or go sustain with neither race being superior to the other. That is balance. Give players a choice, not causing them to be harrased by their raid leaders to race change due to over done buffs or nerfs
  • Twohothardware
    Twohothardware
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    Better off giving khajiits a direct 3% max stam

    An extra 3% max stamina by itself will do very little for Khajiit outside of paper stats against a test dummy. It doesn't matter how much stamina you have if you can't sustain it. Imperial has 10% max Stamina just like Redguard does yet Redguard is by far the dominant race that everyone creates.

    In the heavy handed nerfs ZOS made last year they completely removed Cost Reduction CP, Nerfed the Recovery CP, nerfed the Cost Reduction and Recovery passives on light and medium armor, massively nerfed the Constitution passive on Heavy Armor, increased the cost of skills like Vigor by as much as 30%, nerfed the resource return on several popular sets like Black Rose and Bone Pirate, removed the ability for all Monster sets to Crit, nerfed Major Mending, nerfed Blessed and Quick Recovery CP that Stamina classes relied on most, nerfed the Thief and Shadow Mundus, nerfed resource return on Class passives like DK's Battle Roar, and then in the mix of all that we still have 30% cost increase Poisons in the game.

    So then you go and try to sustain on a Khajiit or a Nord that has only 10% Stam Recovery bonus or none at all vs playing on a race like Redguard that gives you like 3 times the Sustain the difference is obvious. When you're having to change sets, invest a lot more into Recovery, and add more heavy attacks to your rotation just because you picked one Race over another it's not balanced.

    I sustained fine on an imperial dps, and maintained relatively the same dps as if I was on a redguard while being alot more surviviable due to the 12% hp boost the only difference is an extra heavy attack or 2 every other rotation. 792/5*2 is only 316.8 regen if you proc every 5 seconds, so in reality it is more like 200-250 regen. Even at best case scenerio, with 316.8 regen you are telling me that your recovery on a khajiit is 105.6? I can get much more than that on an altmer with no stam regen glyphs, food, cp or medium armor.
    You are right in the fact that you shouldnt have the highest damage and sustain at the same time, which is why Im proposing carnage buffs
    Edit: base regen for stam is about 500, so that 105.6 number would be impossible to have

    A set like Bone Pirate's Tatters adds 279 stam recovery. You're getting the recovery of a 5 piece set as Redguard's racial passive. Khajiit gets about 1/3 that in recovery while marginal to no difference in DPS because you're having to invest more in Recovery or weave more Heavy Attacks to play as a Khajiit vs a Redguard.

    Shouldnt a khajiit get 1% more recovery than a redguard? 10%>9%?

    No, Redguard Adrenaline passive returns 792 Stamina every 5 seconds on a melee attack on top of the 9% Stam Recovery passive.
  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    That still doesn't mean Bosmer can't get a slight buff so that Redguard isn't the end all be all Stamina race. Not every Bosmer is a NB, so while it does help them further cement their Stamblade supremacy, it also helps their StamDKs, StamSorcs, Stamplars and Stamdens be on more equal footing to Redguard without surpassing them in those fields either.

    You do not balance based off 1 area but the entire field and right now, Redguard has the field covered on all fronts.

    You are asking for more racial diversity (which is fine) while under the same breath asking for changes that would put bosmer to be the end all be all race for a class? That is a bit on the counter intuitive side...

    But it's NOT the end all, be all for NB. It is only such for Stamblade in PvP. They make decent Stamblade in PvE but Redguard and Khajiit are better in that department, even with my suggested change.

    Every race should have something they excel at, be it healing, tanking or DPS, PvE or PvP. Currently, it's Redguard for stamina everything, EXCEPT Stamblade in PvP, which is Bosmer territory and even then Redguard isn't THAT far behind.
    Argonian forever
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    Better off giving khajiits a direct 3% max stam

    An extra 3% max stamina by itself will do very little for Khajiit outside of paper stats against a test dummy. It doesn't matter how much stamina you have if you can't sustain it. Imperial has 10% max Stamina just like Redguard does yet Redguard is by far the dominant race that everyone creates.

    In the heavy handed nerfs ZOS made last year they completely removed Cost Reduction CP, Nerfed the Recovery CP, nerfed the Cost Reduction and Recovery passives on light and medium armor, massively nerfed the Constitution passive on Heavy Armor, increased the cost of skills like Vigor by as much as 30%, nerfed the resource return on several popular sets like Black Rose and Bone Pirate, removed the ability for all Monster sets to Crit, nerfed Major Mending, nerfed Blessed and Quick Recovery CP that Stamina classes relied on most, nerfed the Thief and Shadow Mundus, nerfed resource return on Class passives like DK's Battle Roar, and then in the mix of all that we still have 30% cost increase Poisons in the game.

    So then you go and try to sustain on a Khajiit or a Nord that has only 10% Stam Recovery bonus or none at all vs playing on a race like Redguard that gives you like 3 times the Sustain the difference is obvious. When you're having to change sets, invest a lot more into Recovery, and add more heavy attacks to your rotation just because you picked one Race over another it's not balanced.

    I sustained fine on an imperial dps, and maintained relatively the same dps as if I was on a redguard while being alot more surviviable due to the 12% hp boost the only difference is an extra heavy attack or 2 every other rotation. 792/5*2 is only 316.8 regen if you proc every 5 seconds, so in reality it is more like 200-250 regen. Even at best case scenerio, with 316.8 regen you are telling me that your recovery on a khajiit is 105.6? I can get much more than that on an altmer with no stam regen glyphs, food, cp or medium armor.
    You are right in the fact that you shouldnt have the highest damage and sustain at the same time, which is why Im proposing carnage buffs
    Edit: base regen for stam is about 500, so that 105.6 number would be impossible to have

    A set like Bone Pirate's Tatters adds 279 stam recovery. You're getting the recovery of a 5 piece set as Redguard's racial passive. Khajiit gets about 1/3 that in recovery while marginal to no difference in DPS because you're having to invest more in Recovery or weave more Heavy Attacks to play as a Khajiit vs a Redguard.

    Shouldnt a khajiit get 1% more recovery than a redguard? 10%>9%?

    No, Redguard Adrenaline passive returns 792 Stamina every 5 seconds on a melee attack on top of the 9% Stam Recovery passive.

    No from bone pirate
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    That still doesn't mean Bosmer can't get a slight buff so that Redguard isn't the end all be all Stamina race. Not every Bosmer is a NB, so while it does help them further cement their Stamblade supremacy, it also helps their StamDKs, StamSorcs, Stamplars and Stamdens be on more equal footing to Redguard without surpassing them in those fields either.

    You do not balance based off 1 area but the entire field and right now, Redguard has the field covered on all fronts.

    You are asking for more racial diversity (which is fine) while under the same breath asking for changes that would put bosmer to be the end all be all race for a class? That is a bit on the counter intuitive side...

    But it's NOT the end all, be all for NB. It is only such for Stamblade in PvP. They make decent Stamblade in PvE but Redguard and Khajiit are better in that department, even with my suggested change.

    Every race should have something they excel at, be it healing, tanking or DPS, PvE or PvP. Currently, it's Redguard for stamina everything, EXCEPT Stamblade in PvP, which is Bosmer territory and even then Redguard isn't THAT far behind.

    For healing tanking and dps, I can somewhat agree. However for dps, the differences should be subtle enough to fit a players play style oe building for sustain vs damage. If you want to be really damaging for stam (or even mag with my proposed changes), but dont mind doing a few extra heavy attacks, then you go khajiit. If you like sustain during combat whike stam, you should be redguard. If you like sustain outside of combat while, then pick bosmer. But the racial differences should not be at the point where you only see khajiits in pve or redguards/bosmer for pvp. Pigeon holing races like that isnt the way to go.
  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    That still doesn't mean Bosmer can't get a slight buff so that Redguard isn't the end all be all Stamina race. Not every Bosmer is a NB, so while it does help them further cement their Stamblade supremacy, it also helps their StamDKs, StamSorcs, Stamplars and Stamdens be on more equal footing to Redguard without surpassing them in those fields either.

    You do not balance based off 1 area but the entire field and right now, Redguard has the field covered on all fronts.

    You are asking for more racial diversity (which is fine) while under the same breath asking for changes that would put bosmer to be the end all be all race for a class? That is a bit on the counter intuitive side...

    But it's NOT the end all, be all for NB. It is only such for Stamblade in PvP. They make decent Stamblade in PvE but Redguard and Khajiit are better in that department, even with my suggested change.

    Every race should have something they excel at, be it healing, tanking or DPS, PvE or PvP. Currently, it's Redguard for stamina everything, EXCEPT Stamblade in PvP, which is Bosmer territory and even then Redguard isn't THAT far behind.

    For healing tanking and dps, I can somewhat agree. However for dps, the differences should be subtle enough to fit a players play style oe building for sustain vs damage. If you want to be really damaging for stam (or even mag with my proposed changes), but dont mind doing a few extra heavy attacks, then you go khajiit. If you like sustain during combat whike stam, you should be redguard. If you like sustain outside of combat while, then pick bosmer. But the racial differences should not be at the point where you only see khajiits in pve or redguards/bosmer for pvp. Pigeon holing races like that isnt the way to go.

    But that's how it currently is. Redguard is performing well above average in both PvP and PvE for stamina builds. I am trying to bridge the gap in a very small way to make both Khajiit and Bosmer universally more desirable over Redguard and while my suggestion isn't perfect, as it makes Bosmer NB in PvP better than ever, it's a small price to pay so that both races are equally represented in ALL classes, instead of only NBs.
    Argonian forever
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    That still doesn't mean Bosmer can't get a slight buff so that Redguard isn't the end all be all Stamina race. Not every Bosmer is a NB, so while it does help them further cement their Stamblade supremacy, it also helps their StamDKs, StamSorcs, Stamplars and Stamdens be on more equal footing to Redguard without surpassing them in those fields either.

    You do not balance based off 1 area but the entire field and right now, Redguard has the field covered on all fronts.

    You are asking for more racial diversity (which is fine) while under the same breath asking for changes that would put bosmer to be the end all be all race for a class? That is a bit on the counter intuitive side...

    But it's NOT the end all, be all for NB. It is only such for Stamblade in PvP. They make decent Stamblade in PvE but Redguard and Khajiit are better in that department, even with my suggested change.

    Every race should have something they excel at, be it healing, tanking or DPS, PvE or PvP. Currently, it's Redguard for stamina everything, EXCEPT Stamblade in PvP, which is Bosmer territory and even then Redguard isn't THAT far behind.

    For healing tanking and dps, I can somewhat agree. However for dps, the differences should be subtle enough to fit a players play style oe building for sustain vs damage. If you want to be really damaging for stam (or even mag with my proposed changes), but dont mind doing a few extra heavy attacks, then you go khajiit. If you like sustain during combat whike stam, you should be redguard. If you like sustain outside of combat while, then pick bosmer. But the racial differences should not be at the point where you only see khajiits in pve or redguards/bosmer for pvp. Pigeon holing races like that isnt the way to go.

    But that's how it currently is. Redguard is performing well above average in both PvP and PvE for stamina builds. I am trying to bridge the gap in a very small way to make both Khajiit and Bosmer universally more desirable over Redguard and while my suggestion isn't perfect, as it makes Bosmer NB in PvP better than ever, it's a small price to pay so that both races are equally represented in ALL classes, instead of only NBs.

    Making bosmer vastly superior in a class is counter intiutive to making races "equally represented in ALL classes" Equal and superior are opposites to each other, dont you think? No one would support more pvp nightblade buffs to damage, espeically after thisn patch. I think my proposal is fair, boosting khajiits strength (crit, and therefore damage) even extending that strength to magicka making khajiits not solely stam, but also an option for magicka, therefore adding more diversity in racial choice. I dint want racial superiority for a pacticular game style that is pve vs pvp. I want racial diversity, have on average about equal amounts of khajiits redguards, imperials and bosmer or khajiits, bretons, altmer, and dunmer all around for stam and mag respectively. Better yet, discouple races and racials and we would have true racial diversity.
  • MisterBigglesworth
    MisterBigglesworth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Give Khajiit the ability to toggle to Unarmed combat with its own bar kinda like Werewolf
    Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.
  • coop500
    coop500
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Give khajiits +10% movement speed
    Toon list:
    PC NA:
    Chip Ahoy: Magicka Templar khajiit WW healer and crafter of metals, clothes, leather and wood
    Rose Scale: Magicka Nightblade argonian WW DPS and 'evil' toon (steals stuff from barrels)
    Snip Ahoy: Stamina Dragonknight khajiit WW tank
    Walks-Through-Corn: Magicka Templar argonian Vampire tank and also cooks food
    Snowy Kitten: Magicka Sorcerer khajiit WW healer and also makes glyphs
    Valerie Ahoy: Stamina Nightblade khajiit WW DPS/tank
    Mixes-With-Mud: Stamina Warden khajiit WW DPS and also mixes potions
    Tyrenan: Magicka Warden khajiit healer
    Always-Brings-Light: Magicka Dragonknight argonian WW DPS
    Howls-At-Moons: Stamina Warden argonian WW healer
    Giggles-At-Everything: Stamina Sorc argonian WW DPS
    Hugger-Of-Griffons: Stamina DK argonian WW poison focused DPS and ring/necklace crafter.

    Wishlist from ZOS: Chestnut Unicorn mount and the Lilmothiit race, would definitely pay 10K crowns or even 20K crowns for it.

  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    That still doesn't mean Bosmer can't get a slight buff so that Redguard isn't the end all be all Stamina race. Not every Bosmer is a NB, so while it does help them further cement their Stamblade supremacy, it also helps their StamDKs, StamSorcs, Stamplars and Stamdens be on more equal footing to Redguard without surpassing them in those fields either.

    You do not balance based off 1 area but the entire field and right now, Redguard has the field covered on all fronts.

    You are asking for more racial diversity (which is fine) while under the same breath asking for changes that would put bosmer to be the end all be all race for a class? That is a bit on the counter intuitive side...

    But it's NOT the end all, be all for NB. It is only such for Stamblade in PvP. They make decent Stamblade in PvE but Redguard and Khajiit are better in that department, even with my suggested change.

    Every race should have something they excel at, be it healing, tanking or DPS, PvE or PvP. Currently, it's Redguard for stamina everything, EXCEPT Stamblade in PvP, which is Bosmer territory and even then Redguard isn't THAT far behind.

    For healing tanking and dps, I can somewhat agree. However for dps, the differences should be subtle enough to fit a players play style oe building for sustain vs damage. If you want to be really damaging for stam (or even mag with my proposed changes), but dont mind doing a few extra heavy attacks, then you go khajiit. If you like sustain during combat whike stam, you should be redguard. If you like sustain outside of combat while, then pick bosmer. But the racial differences should not be at the point where you only see khajiits in pve or redguards/bosmer for pvp. Pigeon holing races like that isnt the way to go.

    But that's how it currently is. Redguard is performing well above average in both PvP and PvE for stamina builds. I am trying to bridge the gap in a very small way to make both Khajiit and Bosmer universally more desirable over Redguard and while my suggestion isn't perfect, as it makes Bosmer NB in PvP better than ever, it's a small price to pay so that both races are equally represented in ALL classes, instead of only NBs.

    Making bosmer vastly superior in a class is counter intiutive to making races "equally represented in ALL classes" Equal and superior are opposites to each other, dont you think? No one would support more pvp nightblade buffs to damage, espeically after thisn patch. I think my proposal is fair, boosting khajiits strength (crit, and therefore damage) even extending that strength to magicka making khajiits not solely stam, but also an option for magicka, therefore adding more diversity in racial choice. I dint want racial superiority for a pacticular game style that is pve vs pvp. I want racial diversity, have on average about equal amounts of khajiits redguards, imperials and bosmer or khajiits, bretons, altmer, and dunmer all around for stam and mag respectively. Better yet, discouple races and racials and we would have true racial diversity.

    I"m all for removing Racial passives entirely and race being purely for aesthetics but ZOS doesn't seem to agree. As such we work with what we currently have.

    I've read your suggestion and feel it's far too overtuned. You're suggesting giving Khajiit absolutely 0 negative to playing as it has a little of everything and then some.

    10% Weapon and Spell crit
    10% Stamina and Magic regen
    20% Health Regen
    6% Max Health (or a 3-5% passive dodge chance, which I'm adamantly against since I feel ZOS shot themselves in the foot by adding a passive dodge chance to ESO which has active dodging available.)

    Even if this meant removing the Stealth passive (I'm going to assume it does, else it's far more overtuned than every other suggestion on here) it turns Khajiit into a race with no real downside. It'll most likely outperform Bretons as far as Magic races goes since it'll have much more sustain (It has more regen than Altmer for goodness sake) and the extra crit would be on par if not superior to the 10% max magic on Bretons that it would just sink them even lower on the magic race spectrum, which speaks nothing of the rest of the benefits the race. It would also more than likely kill off Orcs as well since it has superior Health regen, similar health stats and all that crit more than makes up for the damage Orcs do.

    Congrats, you killed 2 races off. Go racial diversity.
    Edited by Silver_Strider on February 2, 2018 9:54AM
    Argonian forever
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    That still doesn't mean Bosmer can't get a slight buff so that Redguard isn't the end all be all Stamina race. Not every Bosmer is a NB, so while it does help them further cement their Stamblade supremacy, it also helps their StamDKs, StamSorcs, Stamplars and Stamdens be on more equal footing to Redguard without surpassing them in those fields either.

    You do not balance based off 1 area but the entire field and right now, Redguard has the field covered on all fronts.

    You are asking for more racial diversity (which is fine) while under the same breath asking for changes that would put bosmer to be the end all be all race for a class? That is a bit on the counter intuitive side...

    But it's NOT the end all, be all for NB. It is only such for Stamblade in PvP. They make decent Stamblade in PvE but Redguard and Khajiit are better in that department, even with my suggested change.

    Every race should have something they excel at, be it healing, tanking or DPS, PvE or PvP. Currently, it's Redguard for stamina everything, EXCEPT Stamblade in PvP, which is Bosmer territory and even then Redguard isn't THAT far behind.

    For healing tanking and dps, I can somewhat agree. However for dps, the differences should be subtle enough to fit a players play style oe building for sustain vs damage. If you want to be really damaging for stam (or even mag with my proposed changes), but dont mind doing a few extra heavy attacks, then you go khajiit. If you like sustain during combat whike stam, you should be redguard. If you like sustain outside of combat while, then pick bosmer. But the racial differences should not be at the point where you only see khajiits in pve or redguards/bosmer for pvp. Pigeon holing races like that isnt the way to go.

    But that's how it currently is. Redguard is performing well above average in both PvP and PvE for stamina builds. I am trying to bridge the gap in a very small way to make both Khajiit and Bosmer universally more desirable over Redguard and while my suggestion isn't perfect, as it makes Bosmer NB in PvP better than ever, it's a small price to pay so that both races are equally represented in ALL classes, instead of only NBs.

    Making bosmer vastly superior in a class is counter intiutive to making races "equally represented in ALL classes" Equal and superior are opposites to each other, dont you think? No one would support more pvp nightblade buffs to damage, espeically after thisn patch. I think my proposal is fair, boosting khajiits strength (crit, and therefore damage) even extending that strength to magicka making khajiits not solely stam, but also an option for magicka, therefore adding more diversity in racial choice. I dint want racial superiority for a pacticular game style that is pve vs pvp. I want racial diversity, have on average about equal amounts of khajiits redguards, imperials and bosmer or khajiits, bretons, altmer, and dunmer all around for stam and mag respectively. Better yet, discouple races and racials and we would have true racial diversity.

    I"m all for removing Racial passives entirely and race being purely for aesthetics but ZOS doesn't seem to agree. As such we work with what we currently have.

    I've read your suggestion and feel it's far too overtuned. You're suggesting giving Khajiit absolutely 0 negative to playing as it has a little of everything and then some.

    10% Weapon and Spell crit
    10% Stamina and Magic regen
    20% Health Regen
    6% Max Health (or a 3-5% passive dodge chance, which I'm adamantly against since I feel ZOS shot themselves in the foot by adding a passive dodge chance to ESO which has active dodging available.)

    Even if this meant removing the Stealth passive (I'm going to assume it does, else it's far more overtuned than every other suggestion on here) it turns Khajiit into a race with no real downside. It'll most likely outperform Bretons as far as Magic races goes since it'll have much more sustain (It has more regen than Altmer for goodness sake) and the extra crit would be on par if not superior to the 10% max magic on Bretons that it would just sink them even lower on the magic race spectrum, which speaks nothing of the rest of the benefits the race. It would also more than likely kill off Orcs as well since it has superior Health regen, similar health stats and all that crit more than makes up for the damage Orcs do.

    Congrats, you killed 2 races off. Go racial diversity.

    Bretons could use a bit of a buff too, perhaps giving it more sustain, ie boosting their cost reduction passive from 3% to say 5 or 6% or so, but thats another topic. If you want, you can have the crit passive be 8% for spell crit. Orcs have a melee damage passive increase and a max stam passive that already out damages redguard, ss well as a sprint passive. Which with all the inpen out there would, probally still out damage khajiit. If you are worried about hp regen, you can nerf khajjits hp passive or buff orcs hp passive.
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If these are truly flaws in my proposal, then how would they be better? Buff orc and breton? Bring down the proposed 10% crit each? Alter the hp recovery or max hp? Direct 3% max stam and max magicka with 8% crit?
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    People, you are all looking at it wrong. Try imagining redguard does not exist for the moment and suddenly all the stamina racial choices look much more balanced. Bosmer vs Khajiit vs Orc vs Imperial all look like meaningful choice. Some of them have more damage, some more sustain and some more utility. Yes, there are still clear winners given nature of the game (for example orc much better than bosmer for stamsorc or heavy armor build, bosmer overall not so great for pve, khajiit overall not so great for pvp, imperial much better for tanking than all 3 of them and I could list many other).

    Even nord does not look that bad, but would be probably overshadowed by combination of imperial and orc for any tanking/brawling related setups in pve/pvp.

    Redguard is problem why all other races just look so bad most of the time and need super situational builds to gain benefit (like synergy of nightblade and high regen, or stamsorc and mobility or imperial and high health or trollking and health recovery)

    If redguard lost 4% of his max stam, people (redguard users) would obviously cry all over the forum about ZoS again nerfing instead of buffing and about getting money from race change (tbh if any significant changes to race happen - as they should - I hope ZoS will consider temporary cheap/free race change), but in the end... few months later once all tears dry up (like with templar tears after Morrowind patch), nobody would think redguard is weak race and it would still, along with khajiit, be one of the most popular races in endgame and still literally the best race for PVE for builds/people that struggle with sustain.
    Edited by SodanTok on February 2, 2018 1:36PM
    PC | EU | AD
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    SodanTok wrote: »
    People, you are all looking at it wrong. Try imagining redguard does not exist for the moment and suddenly all the stamina racial choices look much more balanced. Bosmer vs Khajiit vs Orc vs Imperial all look like meaningful choice. Some of them have more damage, some more sustain and some more utility. Yes, there are still clear winners given nature of the game (for example orc much better than bosmer for stamsorc or heavy armor build, bosmer overall not so great for pve, khajiit overall not so great for pvp, imperial much better for tanking than all 3 of them and I could list many other).

    Even nord does not look that bad, but would be probably overshadowed by combination of imperial and orc for any tanking/brawling related setups in pve/pvp.

    Redguard is problem why all other races just look so bad most of the time and need super situational builds to gain benefit (like synergy of nightblade and high regen, or stamsorc and mobility or imperial and high health or trollking and health recovery)

    If redguard lost 4% of his max stam, people (redguard users) would obviously cry all over the forum about ZoS again nerfing instead of buffing and about getting money from race change (tbh if any significant changes to race happen - as they should - I hope ZoS will consider temporary cheap/free race change), but in the end... few months later once all tears dry up (like with templar tears after Morrowind patch), nobody would think redguard is weak race and it would still, along with khajiit, be one of the most popular races in endgame and still literally the best race for PVE for builds/people that struggle with sustain.

    And I think the Redgaurds would be right.

    It't not at all clear to me that Redgaurd is a slam-dunk over an Orc. For PvE, a Khajiit player that can sustain themselves in get more DPS in a group environment.

    And Templar "tears" are still there because it's total crap that their abilities have not scaled correctly going on more than a half a year now.
    Edited by Joy_Division on February 2, 2018 2:06PM
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    SodanTok wrote: »
    People, you are all looking at it wrong. Try imagining redguard does not exist for the moment and suddenly all the stamina racial choices look much more balanced. Bosmer vs Khajiit vs Orc vs Imperial all look like meaningful choice. Some of them have more damage, some more sustain and some more utility. Yes, there are still clear winners given nature of the game (for example orc much better than bosmer for stamsorc or heavy armor build, bosmer overall not so great for pve, khajiit overall not so great for pvp, imperial much better for tanking than all 3 of them and I could list many other).

    Even nord does not look that bad, but would be probably overshadowed by combination of imperial and orc for any tanking/brawling related setups in pve/pvp.

    Redguard is problem why all other races just look so bad most of the time and need super situational builds to gain benefit (like synergy of nightblade and high regen, or stamsorc and mobility or imperial and high health or trollking and health recovery)

    If redguard lost 4% of his max stam, people (redguard users) would obviously cry all over the forum about ZoS again nerfing instead of buffing and about getting money from race change (tbh if any significant changes to race happen - as they should - I hope ZoS will consider temporary cheap/free race change), but in the end... few months later once all tears dry up (like with templar tears after Morrowind patch), nobody would think redguard is weak race and it would still, along with khajiit, be one of the most popular races in endgame and still literally the best race for PVE for builds/people that struggle with sustain.

    And I think the Redgaurds would be right.

    It't not at all clear to me that Redgaurd is a slam-dunk over an Orc. For PvE, a Khajiit player that can sustain themselves in get more DPS in a group environment.

    And Templar "tears" are still there because it's total crap that their abilities have not scaled correctly going on more than a half a year now.

    Dunno, since the patch that nerfed shadow and buffed stamina on sets I have yet to see anyone proving it is better to be khajiit than redguard in any situation. Makes me think there actually is no situation, or that situation exists only for very small portion of playerbase.

    As for PVP. The utility and feeling is there much more prevalent that cold math. In some cases for good reasons, but I am pretty sure good majority of orc players never bothered to figure out how much damage their melee passive actually gives and neither most bosmer players how much they sustain means. Obviously all I have is anecdotal evidence of random chats and racial discussions like these. So many people still struggle to grasp basic 'math questions' like how much regen they actually get from additive sources. Or how much stamina you actually get from redguard with existence of CP stat bonus and how that translates to damage (not to mention sustain, nobody ever considers impact of starting fight with 3k more stamina). Hell, I am sure 99% of good players and build creators are still unaware that CP % (like mighty or master at arms) are additive with all other (like berserk, exploiter, sword buffs, empower, ...)

    //edit:
    As for templar tears. You know very well (or maybe dont? I dont know how much templars think about that past) what I mean. Broken or annoying to use skills are obv issue, but they are still superior healers...
    Edited by SodanTok on February 2, 2018 3:21PM
    PC | EU | AD
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    SodanTok wrote: »
    People, you are all looking at it wrong. Try imagining redguard does not exist for the moment and suddenly all the stamina racial choices look much more balanced. Bosmer vs Khajiit vs Orc vs Imperial all look like meaningful choice. Some of them have more damage, some more sustain and some more utility. Yes, there are still clear winners given nature of the game (for example orc much better than bosmer for stamsorc or heavy armor build, bosmer overall not so great for pve, khajiit overall not so great for pvp, imperial much better for tanking than all 3 of them and I could list many other).

    Even nord does not look that bad, but would be probably overshadowed by combination of imperial and orc for any tanking/brawling related setups in pve/pvp.

    Redguard is problem why all other races just look so bad most of the time and need super situational builds to gain benefit (like synergy of nightblade and high regen, or stamsorc and mobility or imperial and high health or trollking and health recovery)

    If redguard lost 4% of his max stam, people (redguard users) would obviously cry all over the forum about ZoS again nerfing instead of buffing and about getting money from race change (tbh if any significant changes to race happen - as they should - I hope ZoS will consider temporary cheap/free race change), but in the end... few months later once all tears dry up (like with templar tears after Morrowind patch), nobody would think redguard is weak race and it would still, along with khajiit, be one of the most popular races in endgame and still literally the best race for PVE for builds/people that struggle with sustain.

    Templars are still qqing about their skills not working, I say it is better to either buff the other races or discouple races from racials amd call them "proventials" or something or greatly reduce them all together having only 1 racial and 1 extra "fun" racial with the fun racials being 1% gold for imperials, or 15% more up time on drinks for nords and etc
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    I say add 3% Max Stamina to the Sneak Passive so both Wood Elf and Khajiit benefit from it and change Health recovery on Khajiit to 6% Max Health.

    This gives Wood Elves a 9% total Stamina, making it slightly more on par with Redguard, while Khajiitt get 6% max health and 3% Stamina to help bridge the gap between all 3 races and make them all have their positives and negatives.

    That's more of a buff for Wood Elf than it is Khajiit. Khajiit's biggest drawback is in sustain so if it's going to be the hardest DPS race to sustain on it needs to have clearly the higher damage potential which you don't get if you give the same max Stamina buff to Wood Elf as well. Everyone would just continue picking Wood Elf over Khajiit in PvP.

    I'm not against Wood Elf getting a small buff as I think all races outside of Redguard, Argonian, and maybe Dark Elf and Orc need a race update to get them equally competitive but Khajiit is in worse shape due to sustain and needs something that addresses that.

    Some races suck at sustain.
    Dunmer, Nord, Orcs and Imperial have 0 real sustain racials (don't count Red Diamond), in which Khajiit is already ahead of the curb with their 10% stamina regen. Even if their regen was buffed to 20% it would still be left behind entirely since both Redguard and Wood Elves already have superior sustain. Khajiit is only considered at all currently since it does higher damage than Wood Elves but on par damage to Redguard (slightly less), just less sustain. My suggested change helps bring both Khajiit and Wood Elves more in line with Redguard without any race being instantly superior overall. Khajiit would potentially do more Damage then both Redguard and Wood Elves but both would excel at sustain over Khajiit.

    Not all races NEED to compete in the same field when there are other avenues they can excel at instead.

    It would not be any noticeable buff to Khajiit what you suggested. 6% health makes little difference unless you're wearing Heavy Armor which isn't really the meta for Nightblades and losing the 20% Health Recovery is a downgrade when that helps survivability when combined with sets like Troll King.

    But you're right about races like Nord and Imperial having 0 real sustain racials and that's why noone is using them for anything outside of a tank that stands there and holds block and even that is better done by an Argonian now. The sustain changes last year ruined Race balance because it gave a larger advantage to all the Races that have a strong sustain passive.

    I'm suggesting 6% max health and 3% stamina for Khajiit. The 3% might be small but coupled with their 8% crit bonus would make them stronger DPS wise without overturning them and the 6% health bonus isn't exactly worthless either in PvE or PvP content, especially when it means being able to use something like the Dubious Cameron drink.

    Again, not every race needs to excel in the same fields, when there are other avenues to excel in. Argonians have the worst damage but the best sustain. Orc and Dunmer have *** sustain but good damage. Redguard is currently overtuned because it has the best of both worlds with best damage AND sustain, which is what I'm trying to alleviate by making Wood Elves and Khajiit deal damage on par or greater than Redguard so that it becomes a CHOICE instead of 1 race to conquer all.

    problem with buffing stealthy to that, is that you would be buffing nbs and the community at the moment isn't too happy with that idea, especially with dk changes

    Correction, it buffs stealth mechanics, which every class can use, NBs just have the best tools to do so and considering that Redguard is overperforming Wood Elves and Khajiit, despite this passive, shows that the passive isn't overperforming at all.

    The reason why bosmer is better than redguard for stamblades in pvp is because of that passive and better out of combat regen

    Better off giving khajiits a direct 3% max stam

    An extra 3% max stamina by itself will do very little for Khajiit outside of paper stats against a test dummy. It doesn't matter how much stamina you have if you can't sustain it. Imperial has 10% max Stamina just like Redguard does yet Redguard is by far the dominant race that everyone creates.

    So then you go and try to sustain on a Khajiit or a Nord that has only 10% Stam Recovery bonus or none at all vs playing on a race like Redguard that gives you like 3 times the Sustain the difference is obvious. When you're having to change sets, invest a lot more into Recovery, and add more heavy attacks to your rotation just because you picked one Race over another it's not balanced.

    And so do Orcs, Dunmer, Nord and Imperials as well. None of them has a sustain passive for their main pool. While Nords are in a bad spot alltogether, people still suggest using Orcs (pvp stam sorcs) and Dunmer (mdk) for certain builds, even without + regen. So give them all a regen passive as well?
    coop500 wrote: »
    Give khajiits +10% movement speed

    Nah, better make it 20 *rolleyes*

    Seriously, what some people suggest nowadays baffles me. Nothing personal, but don't you guys think that some of the suggestions are a bit too much? For all I know there is only one passive that increases movement speed, Windrunner (120cp) and that's by only 2%. The rest are temporary buffs or sprint speed.
    Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on February 2, 2018 4:32PM
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    People, you are all looking at it wrong. Try imagining redguard does not exist for the moment and suddenly all the stamina racial choices look much more balanced. Bosmer vs Khajiit vs Orc vs Imperial all look like meaningful choice. Some of them have more damage, some more sustain and some more utility. Yes, there are still clear winners given nature of the game (for example orc much better than bosmer for stamsorc or heavy armor build, bosmer overall not so great for pve, khajiit overall not so great for pvp, imperial much better for tanking than all 3 of them and I could list many other).

    Even nord does not look that bad, but would be probably overshadowed by combination of imperial and orc for any tanking/brawling related setups in pve/pvp.

    Redguard is problem why all other races just look so bad most of the time and need super situational builds to gain benefit (like synergy of nightblade and high regen, or stamsorc and mobility or imperial and high health or trollking and health recovery)

    If redguard lost 4% of his max stam, people (redguard users) would obviously cry all over the forum about ZoS again nerfing instead of buffing and about getting money from race change (tbh if any significant changes to race happen - as they should - I hope ZoS will consider temporary cheap/free race change), but in the end... few months later once all tears dry up (like with templar tears after Morrowind patch), nobody would think redguard is weak race and it would still, along with khajiit, be one of the most popular races in endgame and still literally the best race for PVE for builds/people that struggle with sustain.

    Templars are still qqing about their skills not working, I say it is better to either buff the other races or discouple races from racials amd call them "proventials" or something or greatly reduce them all together having only 1 racial and 1 extra "fun" racial with the fun racials being 1% gold for imperials, or 15% more up time on drinks for nords and etc

    Making the game more shallow? Sure thing. Worked out very well for SWTOR iirc.
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    People, you are all looking at it wrong. Try imagining redguard does not exist for the moment and suddenly all the stamina racial choices look much more balanced. Bosmer vs Khajiit vs Orc vs Imperial all look like meaningful choice. Some of them have more damage, some more sustain and some more utility. Yes, there are still clear winners given nature of the game (for example orc much better than bosmer for stamsorc or heavy armor build, bosmer overall not so great for pve, khajiit overall not so great for pvp, imperial much better for tanking than all 3 of them and I could list many other).

    Even nord does not look that bad, but would be probably overshadowed by combination of imperial and orc for any tanking/brawling related setups in pve/pvp.

    Redguard is problem why all other races just look so bad most of the time and need super situational builds to gain benefit (like synergy of nightblade and high regen, or stamsorc and mobility or imperial and high health or trollking and health recovery)

    If redguard lost 4% of his max stam, people (redguard users) would obviously cry all over the forum about ZoS again nerfing instead of buffing and about getting money from race change (tbh if any significant changes to race happen - as they should - I hope ZoS will consider temporary cheap/free race change), but in the end... few months later once all tears dry up (like with templar tears after Morrowind patch), nobody would think redguard is weak race and it would still, along with khajiit, be one of the most popular races in endgame and still literally the best race for PVE for builds/people that struggle with sustain.

    Templars are still qqing about their skills not working, I say it is better to either buff the other races or discouple races from racials amd call them "proventials" or something or greatly reduce them all together having only 1 racial and 1 extra "fun" racial with the fun racials being 1% gold for imperials, or 15% more up time on drinks for nords and etc

    Making the game more shallow? Sure thing. Worked out very well for SWTOR iirc.

    What's wrong with making race purely aesthetic and "racials" being a choice? Promotes the "play as you want" aspect of the game which was advertised.
  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    They could need a slight buff to sustain in my opinion.
  • Nox_Noir
    Nox_Noir
    ✭✭✭✭
    If they changed that silly Stealthy passive, say into +5% critical damage, it would fix both Khajiit and Bosmers
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    People, you are all looking at it wrong. Try imagining redguard does not exist for the moment and suddenly all the stamina racial choices look much more balanced. Bosmer vs Khajiit vs Orc vs Imperial all look like meaningful choice. Some of them have more damage, some more sustain and some more utility. Yes, there are still clear winners given nature of the game (for example orc much better than bosmer for stamsorc or heavy armor build, bosmer overall not so great for pve, khajiit overall not so great for pvp, imperial much better for tanking than all 3 of them and I could list many other).

    Even nord does not look that bad, but would be probably overshadowed by combination of imperial and orc for any tanking/brawling related setups in pve/pvp.

    Redguard is problem why all other races just look so bad most of the time and need super situational builds to gain benefit (like synergy of nightblade and high regen, or stamsorc and mobility or imperial and high health or trollking and health recovery)

    If redguard lost 4% of his max stam, people (redguard users) would obviously cry all over the forum about ZoS again nerfing instead of buffing and about getting money from race change (tbh if any significant changes to race happen - as they should - I hope ZoS will consider temporary cheap/free race change), but in the end... few months later once all tears dry up (like with templar tears after Morrowind patch), nobody would think redguard is weak race and it would still, along with khajiit, be one of the most popular races in endgame and still literally the best race for PVE for builds/people that struggle with sustain.

    Templars are still qqing about their skills not working, I say it is better to either buff the other races or discouple races from racials amd call them "proventials" or something or greatly reduce them all together having only 1 racial and 1 extra "fun" racial with the fun racials being 1% gold for imperials, or 15% more up time on drinks for nords and etc

    Making the game more shallow? Sure thing. Worked out very well for SWTOR iirc.

    What's wrong with making race purely aesthetic and "racials" being a choice? Promotes the "play as you want" aspect of the game which was advertised.

    Play as you want is dead. If it hasn't been dead from the get go, it died when they removed softcaps and introduced the cp system. Removing racials won't make that promise come true either.

    Right now you build a khajiit stam sorc differently from an redguard stam sorc. That is diversity and good for the game. Making everything the same, opening every option up for everyone will kill diversity. What will happen if that comes true? Do you think anyone would pick any other racial set than what was considered BiS before? No. You will see different models but everyone runs the same "best" passives, e.g. the redguard ones for a stam char.

    Only solution to fullfill that promise at least a bit is to make racials balanced. Balanced does not mean same/ same. It means sometimes better, sometimes worse - like in "occasionally better or worse than something else".

    Therefore, yes, khajiit can use a buff. But nothing that makes them undoubtedly BiS for every stam build, like some of the posters suggest. If that also means nerfing something that clearly overperfoms, so be it. But making choices irrelevant is never a good idea.
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    SodanTok wrote: »
    People, you are all looking at it wrong. Try imagining redguard does not exist for the moment and suddenly all the stamina racial choices look much more balanced. Bosmer vs Khajiit vs Orc vs Imperial all look like meaningful choice. Some of them have more damage, some more sustain and some more utility. Yes, there are still clear winners given nature of the game (for example orc much better than bosmer for stamsorc or heavy armor build, bosmer overall not so great for pve, khajiit overall not so great for pvp, imperial much better for tanking than all 3 of them and I could list many other).

    Even nord does not look that bad, but would be probably overshadowed by combination of imperial and orc for any tanking/brawling related setups in pve/pvp.

    Redguard is problem why all other races just look so bad most of the time and need super situational builds to gain benefit (like synergy of nightblade and high regen, or stamsorc and mobility or imperial and high health or trollking and health recovery)

    If redguard lost 4% of his max stam, people (redguard users) would obviously cry all over the forum about ZoS again nerfing instead of buffing and about getting money from race change (tbh if any significant changes to race happen - as they should - I hope ZoS will consider temporary cheap/free race change), but in the end... few months later once all tears dry up (like with templar tears after Morrowind patch), nobody would think redguard is weak race and it would still, along with khajiit, be one of the most popular races in endgame and still literally the best race for PVE for builds/people that struggle with sustain.

    Templars are still qqing about their skills not working, I say it is better to either buff the other races or discouple races from racials amd call them "proventials" or something or greatly reduce them all together having only 1 racial and 1 extra "fun" racial with the fun racials being 1% gold for imperials, or 15% more up time on drinks for nords and etc

    Making the game more shallow? Sure thing. Worked out very well for SWTOR iirc.

    What's wrong with making race purely aesthetic and "racials" being a choice? Promotes the "play as you want" aspect of the game which was advertised.

    Play as you want is dead. If it hasn't been dead from the get go, it died when they removed softcaps and introduced the cp system. Removing racials won't make that promise come true either.

    Right now you build a khajiit stam sorc differently from an redguard stam sorc. That is diversity and good for the game. Making everything the same, opening every option up for everyone will kill diversity. What will happen if that comes true? Do you think anyone would pick any other racial set than what was considered BiS before? No. You will see different models but everyone runs the same "best" passives, e.g. the redguard ones for a stam char.

    Only solution to fullfill that promise at least a bit is to make racials balanced. Balanced does not mean same/ same. It means sometimes better, sometimes worse - like in "occasionally better or worse than something else".

    Therefore, yes, khajiit can use a buff. But nothing that makes them undoubtedly BiS for every stam build, like some of the posters suggest. If that also means nerfing something that clearly overperfoms, so be it. But making choices irrelevant is never a good idea.

    This is what I orignally suggested, but when people disagreed with that, there came my seperation suggestion. I say, to buff khajiit, buff the weapon crit to 10% and give an equal amount of spell crit and mag regen. Now that I think about orc, a 6% hp boost maybe not optimal.
Sign In or Register to comment.